Bible Translations

[aerasmus]

I will add only this as one line of reasoning is always brought up whenever the Bible versions are discussed. The age of a manuscript is no proof of its accuracy.

The age does give us a look at what was written closer to that period. We as Christians actually argue for the age of the Gospels, as contributory proof to their authenticity...no time for legend and hear-say to have crept in

[aerasmus]

Prof. Wallace does have a great look at the history of the Bible. This is for all of us to look at, in this he does confirm that the NKJV is very close to the KJV and does give us a great overview... It can all be read at this link http://www.bible.org/series.php?series_id=117 He actually does note that the KJV is a great work, not the most acurate, but as a literary work, unsurpassed, and I tend to agree with him... but friends, the issue is with the fact that internet rumours and hear-say are taken as fact. and we should be careful, because some people when they find out the truth on some mistakes in the KJV, and was taught that the KJV is be all end all...those one's might lose their faith, because of others trying to force tradition... Even though we all love the KJV, we should realise that there are mistakes... Not that these translation mistakes takes anything away from the Inspiration of the Bible!

But his conclusion was something that made me sit up... please allow me to quote.

Final conclusion: Even with the proliferation of Bibles today, Christians are reading their Bibles less and less. I believe the evangelical church has only 50 years of life left. 50 years left of evangelicalism because of marginalization of the Word of God. We need another Reformation! The enemy of the gospel now is not religious hierarchy but moral anarchy, not tradition but entertainment. The enemy of the gospel is Protestantism run amock; it is an anti-intellectual, anti-knowledge, feel-good faith that has no content and no convictions. Part of the communal repentance that is needed is a repentance about the text. And even more importantly, there must be a repentance with regard to Christ our Lord. Just as the Bible has been marginalized, Jesus Christ has been ‘buddy-ized.’ His transcendence and majesty are only winked at, as we turn him into the genie in the bottle, beseeching God for more conveniences, more luxury, less hassle, and a life without worries or lack of comfort. He no longer wears the face that the apostles recognized. Or, as Erasmus remarked, “When you read the Greek New Testament, you can see the face of Jesus more clearly than if you were one of his disciples”! A bit of hyperbole, but the point is worth underscoring: The God we worship today no longer resembles the God of the Bible. Unless we return to him through a reading and digesting of the scriptures—through a commitment to the text, the evangelical church will become irrelevant, useless, dead.

[aerasmus]

Richard Call me Andre

We are referring to the NKJV... Which I have given ample proof is consistant with the KJV and is a good translation.

I will address the other issues later, but please acknowledge what I have allready provided. We cannot duck and dive, we have to wrestle and be Bereans :-)

Amen, we must participate in the discussion as difficult as it may be, if we are interested in truth. Brother Andre, I accept your experience and want to better understand your position on this. I have not taken a position on the NKJV because I am not familiar with it. I have on the NIV. It is not from God, but rather is used to lead away from the truth. Yes, it has much truth, but that is how Satan works. He presents much truth with his lies.

As I read your post regarding the history of the NKJV a number of things come to mind. It appears that it is as I thought. Many manuscripts have been used to do the translation. That to my mind would be like me using all of the "bibles" and the KJV to try and understand what  is truth. It does not work. If we rely upon error to form our principles, then we will have error in our results.  There is a discussion of the original manuscripts used by various translations. Have you read through this? And do you disagree? I am not trying to over simplify this subject, but I do believe that Satan has a hand in what is being presented today as God's Word. Do you?

Brother Richard,

I am glad that you want to study this for yourself. We as Seventh-Day Adventist's believe that Religion is progressive... we should also consider that when we study the text in the Bible, and as we receive greater light on what a particular verse might have meant by looking at a number of reputable sources, we can get closer to the original meaning of Inspiration.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying we should discard the KJV, heaven forbid, I own a number, and I prefer it as my study Bible... However, The NKJV really helps to put the KJV in perspective... Just like the NASB the Revised Version and so on helps us to grapple with the text... I believe in expository preaching, and this helps us to be able to do just that.

The accusations against the NKJV are unwarranted, I have shown that the Translators have tried to modernise the language, so that we as contemporary readers can fully understand. In some cases they have not used the Erasmus, but they used older texts. and Have pointed out where there are differences with KJV.

I have a number of Computer programmes as you can well imagine, and I have the Greek, Hebrew, LXX and so on. All of this helps me with my studies.

By the by, which version of the OT did Mathew quote from?

[Richard Myers]

Richard I can supply you with the whole list, but it is BIG... How many Adventists were involved with the KJV ;-)

Brother Andre, a little logic will improve this argument. There were no Seventh-day Adventists when the KJV was translated. To remain faithful to the principle being illustrated you will have to say that none of God's faithful were involved in the translation of the KJV and in fact it was done mainly by Roman Catholics. I would find that hard to believe. Could heathen do the translation? I guess so. God can use the rocks to cry out if no one else will. But, generally, God has a people He works through. That is how I know that my church is His church. 

I understand that most of God's converted Christians are outside of His church, but I also understand that those who stand on vantage ground have been given time and resources to study their Bibles. Many of them have come face to face with the truths for this day and rejected them. I am not talking about the church member, but the pastors, bishops, cardinals, rabbis, etc. The leadership of Babylon, the "teachers" have had opportunity to know the truth. They have instead developed a false gospel and now translate their own "bibles".  Does the NKJV fits into this deception? I don't know. I would think that it does because of who translated it. But, again, I have not stated a position on this. For me, the KJV is very good. I am not biased. Give me a modern translation and I will give it to many that have a difficulty reading the KJV. But, I will keep the KJV for teaching and study. I would use a modern translation for study along side of the KJV if it were faithful to the truth. So far I have not seen one.

Where I begin is slightly different than you, I think. The reason why I know the NIV is a counterfeit is because I studied the true. You may say that my Bible, the KJV is faulty, but I say, that I cheated. I began my Christian experience with the NIV. I was confused, but there were absolute truths that I knew to be true in the "bible". The teachers in our church and other churches along with the NIV were misleading me. Jesus heard my prayer. He gave me an anchor besides the truth I had seen in the NIV. In that anchor there was no error of significance and it was in my language. There was nothing hard to understand. It agreed with all that I knew to be true in the NIV. But, the NIV presented things contrary to what I knew to be truth, significant truth. So, I bought a KJV as much as I disdained Old English. I had been buying NIVs for my friends with the encouragement that they would not have to learn a foreign language to understand God's Word. I now have repented of this mistake and every chance I get I repent publicly in order to remove any reproach I brought upon the KJV.

What was that anchor that kept me grounded to the true gospel? It was The Desire of Ages, The Great Controversy, Mt. of Blessings, Ministry of Healing and a hundred thousand other pages of inspiration. I have read most all of it, prayerfully. Now, you look to the "experts" outside of our faith for proof of truth, but I have never done so and never will. That is not an argument against them, but it is a powerful argument that there is no need to go outside of our church for truth. To go to Babylon for truth is to risk serious deception.

What the Spirit of Prophecy did for me is not to define Scripture, but to confirm what I saw as truth in Scripture. Truth is consistent and there was no consistency in the NIV. There is in the KJV. Those difficult passages do not disturb me because I know the gospel of grace. It is written throughout the KJV. One or two passages that seem to be at odds with the whole Book does not concern me. I know in whom I believe and I know His voice when I hear it. It comes through loud and clear from the KJV. Now, I cannot argue about the NKJV because I don't have one. I have seen them in our churches at times. But, I cannot comment on it.

My guess is that if we have a short discussion about the gospel, we may be able to resolve this quickly. Either the gospel is made plain in this book or it is confused as with the NIV. Which is it? Does the NKJV help or hinder God's desire to reveal Himself, His character, and the plan of salvation? I know that I leave JWs with their New World Translation even though I know they have changed it to suit their false teachings. But, as you desire, I want these souls to become grounded as much as possible and if it takes leaving them with a false "bible", then I trust that God will do as He did with me. Show them enough so that they can see the inconsistencies in their "bible".  I  am working with people that are seeking truth. As such they have help from me and the Holy Spirit to point out the truth as it is in Jesus.

I will take a look at a couple of passages in the NKJV and see how they look. And, I want to agree with our sister who said that because the manuscript is older does not mean it is correct. One of the very masterful things that I believe is not a mistake, but premeditated is the exclusion of the second half of the Romans 8:1. It is purposeful to help the devil with his deceptive "evangelical gospel".  On what basis does the NIV leave out the second half of the verse? Does the NKJV leave it also? I don't think it does which is a credit to the work. But, I again cannot discuss the NKJV. I will take a look and share what I find as I have time. Thank you for your kind and courteous arguments.

[aerasmus]

Richard, Thank you for your eloquent response, it was logic in nature and to be honest, I appreciate it.

As you and I can clearly agree, there is quite a bit of emotion in this discussion, it is well founded as the KJV is a wonderful Bible.

However, though religion is an emotional issue, one needs to be able to step back sometimes and stare the facts/truth straight in the eye. From that vantage point a clear and prayerful decision can be made.

I have only highlighted two Translation errors within the KJV, as this is sufficient for now. I can of course show more, but my aim has not been and still isn’t to sledge the KJV. I in fact as stated love the KJV, and the NKJV is to me and millions of others a very good attempt to modernise the KJV, even though the mistakes I have mentioned are still found within the KJV(which shows how authentic it is to the original)

I want to paint you a brief picture for illustration purpose:

Let’s say sister s-and-so has been in the Seventh-day Adventist Church all her life, Now she only reads the KJV and has been told by others in her congregation that the other translations are works of the devil etc etc. Now one day Sister so-and-so reads a book by Dan Brown, Bart Ehrman or some of these other enemies of Truth. Sister so-and-so now finds herself reading that the one verse that has sustained her Godhead doctrine 1John 5:7 is in fact not really words from the original, and that the Last verses of  Mark was added later on… Sister so-and-so knows the KJV only and has rejected everything else. She goes to someone in the know and he confirms some of these facts to her… What has just happened, Sister so-and-so’s paradigm has just received a major blow, and she does not know how to deal with the situation, as she has never wrestled with the issues… Now our church sister is experiencing a knock which might be a body-blow which if not dealt with correctly might lead to her rejecting the Truth that is contained in the Bible…She might watch a National Geographic Special on the Gospel of Judas or read a book on the Gnostic’s or might be swayed by other so-called Seventh-day Adventist within the Church. Our little sister, might just leave the Remnant, because she did not know about these issues, and she did not have the necessary aptitude or knowledge to be able to handle the objections, we might even see a Paradigm shift in this lady.

Now when it comes to plane Gospel facts, I would rather believe a Child that gives me a simple Thus Saith the Lord.

But when it comes to the textual study of the Bible, the archaeological findings of older/younger manuscripts that have been found, I rather open my ear to the facts laid before me. We have to remember, we use archaeology to vindicate our belief in scripture. The dead sea scrolls has given us the ability to say hey look only about 2%-5% difference can be found from what we have, and this old manuscript(c 100BC) and most of these are literary mistakes. The meaning of the text is not impacted at all.

But lets get back to the reason why I am involved in this debate, a website was linked to that calls the NKJV a work of Satan and so on… This is misleading and would mislead quite a number of people into being like our sister so-and-so, shutting their eyes to what is going on in the world, being blind men leading the blind, as they have not or grappled with the issue.

I have a great concern for our people, and I love you all dearly, though we have not met, I love you because Jesus loves you and you love Him. Thus I would suggest reading the information I have given on this site and the link I have supplied, knowledge is power they say, God’s word is our Wisdom I say. Be Bereans, wrestle and investigate. Oh and one last note for now, don’t sledge a translation on Internet hear-say or on the say so of others who might have an agenda, or who might just be misinformed themselves.

Now I have to get to University. God Bless

[Richard Myers]

We love you also, dear brother. I agree with all you say. There is nothing lost in an examination of what is claimed to be truth. How important that we do our best to establish the foundation of our faith. One of the great difficulties we have when coming into such a discussion is the lack of solid information to know who is a reliable source of information. There is not safety in looking at one's credentials. They hold no weight with Christians. As in the days of Jesus, the learned ones are, not all, but almost all are too proud to be of use to God. He bypasses them in favor of the common man such as the disciples he chose. Unlettered they were, yet they were the ones who possessed the truth.

Most who come with the Greek and Hebrew are imposters, never having known God. They come that they may deceive. Not all, but almost all. And, not knowing the language, it is very difficult to translate. Too many think they are "experts" when given a few tools. They are not experts at all and many are used by Satan, even if they are well meaning, to twist the truth to suit their understanding. I appreciate the work done by converted Christians who yielded to the Spirit in their work in translating into many languages of the world. We need them. But, this does not set aside common sense in understanding we have a major difficulty here with most translating that is being done today. The churches are fallen and it is reflected in the work of translating Scripture. Can you see my concern?

[aerasmus]

Richard your concern is duly noted, however, even when I have shown from our own Commentaries that the KJV is not perfect, this bias still remain within the people.

We have to be careful to judge these men that have done the work, and for saying they are deceitful... The nation of Israel did not accept the truth, even before Christ they rejected the Prophets...

The Apostles were not unlettered as you say, even Peter's Greek seems to be quite well written, also that of Matthew. Mark's gospel does not contain the best...

The work done by Erasmus was great, but as mentioned before it was not perfect. Some of the things taken out by the modern translations were things that crept in from the Vulgate, such as 1John 5:7.

A concern to me is that adventist's are clinging to tradition when there is a wealth of knowledge to be obtained by doing comparitive studies.

You should be careful in noting that "most of the Greek and Hebrew Scholars are imposters, never knowing God" Firstly, that is quite a provocative statement to make, as only God knows the heart of these people. Secondly, they deal with an exact science(95%). Thirdly, is the cause being advanced by attacking Translations, and even modernisations such as the NKJV. And this clearly done by rejecting the empirical evidence.

[Richard Myers]

I agree that we must take advantage of the light we have. I do not say that all of those bearing the Greek and Hebrew are not converted, I only say that most are. Babylon has fallen and even in our own church many of the "scholars" are in error.   The disciples were called unlettered in the Bible. We are told that Christ did not go to the "scholars" of His day because they could not be taught. I am sorry if I step on some toes here, but the same exists in the world today. Higher education is not higher education at all. Yes, there are converted Christians in this area, but only a very few, relatively. These schools are leading our youth into perdition, including the seminaries.

While this is pertinent to our discussion because it leaves us with few "experts" to turn to, we do not want to get sidetracked. I am with you in regards to looking at the NKJV. And, if you will, tell us your thoughts on the NIV which I do say is something that needs to be burned.

I have taken time to look at a few verses from the NKJV and am impressed. I will post some of them.

[Richard Myers]

Before posting the verses I looked up, let me say in regards to those who are translating, this is a work for Christians, not for unbelievers. While it may be true that unbelievers could do a better job, unbiased, than many professing Christians, they are not the ones to trust with the translation of the Word of God. God has His people and they are to be the vehicle that His Word is to come through.

I recall when preaching in English with the aid of a translator that we were short of one of our faith. The translator selected was a Christian from another faith. He had great difficulty in translating my message. Why? Because he had no knowledge of the doctrines being preached. Translating is not a precise science and even more important is that the Holy Spirit is the One who provides the truth. Those who are not moved by the Spirit or who cannot hear the still small voice, ought not be the ones we trust with translating the Word of God. The Bible is too important to trust to those who are not converted.

[aerasmus]

Well the People that have translated the NKJV were Christians. Just because they are not Seventh-day Adventists dont make them insensitive to the Scriptural issues.

Besides the Bible cannot be translated with Doctrinal Bias, that would be a travesty of note!

As I mentioned earlier this is a highly emotional issue, but if SDA’s carry on in this manner, we are just yet again justifying our Sunday-keeping friends to stick with their traditions… Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander, comes to mind

[aerasmus]

I agree that we must take advantage of the light we have. I do not say that all of those bearing the Greek and Hebrew are not converted, I only say that most are. Babylon has fallen and even in our own church many of the "scholars" are in error.   The disciples were called unlettered in the Bible. We are told that Christ did not go to the "scholars" of His day because they could not be taught. I am sorry if I step on some toes here, but the same exists in the world today. Higher education is not higher education at all. Yes, there are converted Christians in this area, but only a very few, relatively. These schools are leading our youth into perdition, including the seminaries.

While this is pertinent to our discussion because it leaves us with few "experts" to turn to, we do not want to get sidetracked. I am with you in regards to looking at the NKJV. And, if you will, tell us your thoughts on the NIV which I do say is something that needs to be burned.

I have taken time to look at a few verses from the NKJV and am impressed. I will post some of them.

Even though I have the NIV, I don't use it that often, as I prefer the prose of the KJV. I do like the NKJV, which is evident. I do look at these other translations to be able to fully understand the meaning of the text...

Matthew by the by used the LXX when quoting.

[Richard Myers]

1 John 3

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

Why change "sons" of God?  Is there not a basis for this verbage. How about Job 1:6? "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them." There was no change made there. Is there a reason why it was changed here and not there?

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

Why change "he shall appear"?  Are we not talking about the second coming? Revealed is what takes place today when I behold Jesus. Not a good change.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

This is rather important. Sadly, this plays into the hands of Satan to remove the simple truth that sin is the transgression of the law. Even in our church are those who deceive on the gospel by the confusion of what sin is. Very sad and a very bad change when no change was needed. The KJV was just to the point, an important point.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

Could have just left this verse alone.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Very good and very important verse that the NKJV gets just right. Many new "bibles" undo the truth revealed in this verse to make an excuse for sin. They like to change "sin" to "practice sin" thereby changing the truth into a lie.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Not sure about this. It could be used to say that those who generally do good are righteous which is wrong. Those who do righteousness, keep the law, are righteous is very specific. "Practice" introduces the general habits, not the specifics actions.
   
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

Very good and a very important verse! When it is important in this chapter, the NKJV has done very well.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

A most important verse and it does not lead away from the truth and into the hands of the "evangelical gospel". But, it would have been better to leave the KJV "is born of God" rather than "has been born of God."


10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Again, better to have left "doeth" or change to "does" rather than "practice", but not as important as the verses noted as very important.
   
Much different than the NIV and other modern translations.

While I am impressed, I am not yet saying this is a good translation. I need more time to look at a few other doctrines and see how the NKJV deals with them.
 

 

[Richard Myers]

I do look at these other translations to be able to fully understand the meaning of the text...

Are you saying you think all of the other modern translations are good...that they fully understand the meaning of the original text?

[Richard Myers]

Well the People that have translated the NKJV were Christians. Just because they are not Seventh-day Adventists dont make them insensitive to the Scriptural issues.

Of course not. But, neither does their positions as translators make them converted. My point being is that they of all people ought to know what truth is. If they don't, they really have no business in translating the Bible. Yes, I understand that there may be some who are ignorant, and innocent, but is it not rather amazing that they could remain blind to truth for so many years since they are not the common man who has not had opportunity to become familiar with doctrine to the degree they have?  This has nothing to do with being in our church, for most of the truly converted Christians are outside of our church. There may be some reasons why many remain out of our church. But, I am talking about their beliefs. Their failure to accept the truth and to continue in their churches who have rejected Bible truth. Babylon has fallen and those who do the translations are not ignorant of the issues and neither are they deprived of the Holy Spirit.

Besides the Bible cannot be translated with Doctrinal Bias, that would be a travesty of note!

The Bible "cannot" be translated with doctrinal bias? There have been translations that indeed are doctrinally biased. And, it is a travesty of note! It is an abomination. It is not to be a surprise to those who understand Babylon has fallen. What does it mean to fall if not to do travesty in religious matters? This is not a condemnation of the members of these fallen churches, but it is a reflection of the leadership of the fallen churches.

As I mentioned earlier this is a highly emotional issue, but if SDA’s carry on in this manner, we are just yet again justifying our Sunday-keeping friends to stick with their traditions… Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander, comes to mind.

I am sorry, dear brother. When Bible truth is rejected and then modern Bibles are written to support the false gospels being taught, we are not to remain quiet about it. And, we are not to invite Babylon's teachers and her writings into our church. The NIV is one such book that has allowed the "evangelical gospel" entrance into our church, God's church. Again, this is not a blanket condemnation of those in these fallen churches. And, even some in leadership positions may be converted. And, even to those in and out of leadership positions who have rejected Bible truth, they may turn and accept the Word of God and walk in the light of God's love.

You are right in respect to our need of having support for all we believe if we expect to have influence with those who will be looking for where to go when they awaken to their present plight. And, we also need to understand that those who reject Bible truth will take advantage of all that we say that is incorrect. We need to be very careful in respect to how we deal with the truth. As we continue, I have no doubt that since we are jealous for God's truth, that we shall better understand the issues being discussed.

[Wally]

Besides the Bible cannot be translated with Doctrinal Bias, that would be a travesty of note!

You are apparently unaware of the work of Wescott and Hort, who were involved in the translation of the RSV, a translation with doctrinal bias if ever there was one, and the NIV is strikingly similar.  I still mantain that the newer the translation the more likely it is to be doctrinally biased.

[aerasmus]

Besides the Bible cannot be translated with Doctrinal Bias, that would be a travesty of note!

You are apparently unaware of the work of Wescott and Hort, who were involved in the translation of the RSV, a translation with doctrinal bias if ever there was one, and the NIV is strikingly similar.  I still mantain that the newer the translation the more likely it is to be doctrinally biased.

Clearly as with all forums, only certain things are looked at, as most of us have our paradigms...

Let me rephrase for Clarity... The Bible SHOULD NOT be translated with doctrinal bias.... And as SDA's we shoul not expect such things.

[aerasmus]

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

This is rather important. Sadly, this plays into the hands of Satan to remove the simple truth that sin is the transgression of the law. Even in our church are those who deceive on the gospel by the confusion of what sin is. Very sad and a very bad change when no change was needed. The KJV was just to the point, an important point.

Lets define Lawlessness... 1: not regulated by or based on law
2 a: not restrained or controlled by law

[Richard Myers]

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

This is rather important. Sadly, this plays into the hands of Satan to remove the simple truth that sin is the transgression of the law. Even in our church are those who deceive on the gospel by the confusion of what sin is. Very sad and a very bad change when no change was needed. The KJV was just to the point, an important point.

Lets define Lawlessness... 1: not regulated by or based on law
2 a: not restrained or controlled by law

Brother Andre, this is not an important matter in regards to what they did. But, my question is why did they have to change that which was perfect? They did not. And, by so doing they help to confuse the issue of the gospel. Right now I am dealing with some who do not want to say sin is the transgression of the law, but want to go into another path that would take the ungrounded away from the truth. They begin to use other language including this phrase like it somehow has a different meaning. I am not nitpicking, only saying that in these new translations, especially one that says they appreciate the KJV, why do they need to change something, just to change it. The KJV was perfectly good and perfectly simple. In this case the translators have muddied the waters. Can you agree with me, dear brother?

BTW, do you appreciate my appreciation for what the NKJV did in 1 John 3?    I am trying. I truly have no bias.

[Mimi]

Pardon my interruption ... I just found this while looking for something else ...


Matthew 5:17-20 (King James Version)

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

******KOREAN Translation of the KJV******

5:17 내 가 율 법 이 나 선 지 자 나 폐 하 러 온 줄 로 생 각 지 말 라 폐 하 러 온 것 이 아 니 요 완 전 케 하 려 함 이 로 다

5:18 진 실 로 너 희 에 게 이 르 노 니 천 지 가 없 어 지 기 전 에 는 율 법 의 일 점 일 획 이 라 도 반 드 시 없 어 지 지 아 니 하 고 다 이 루 리 라

5:19 그 러 므 로 누 구 든 지 이 계 명 중 에 지 극 히 작 은 것 하 나 라 도 버 리 고 또 그 같 이 사 람 을 가 르 치 는 자 는 천 국 에 서 지 극 히 작 다 일 컬 음 을 받 을 것 이 요 누 구 든 지 이 를 행 하 며 가 르 치 는 자 는 천 국 에 서 크 다 일 컬 음 을 받 으 리 라

5:20 내 가 너 희 에 게 이 르 노 니 너 희 의 가 서 기 관 과 바 리 새 인 보 다 더 낫 지 못 하 면 결 단 코 천 국 에 들 어 가 지 못 하 리 라

Not there. Left out.

If we have some Koreans, or those who read Korean or have this translation, please help us verify this information.

[aerasmus]

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

This is rather important. Sadly, this plays into the hands of Satan to remove the simple truth that sin is the transgression of the law. Even in our church are those who deceive on the gospel by the confusion of what sin is. Very sad and a very bad change when no change was needed. The KJV was just to the point, an important point.

Lets define Lawlessness... 1: not regulated by or based on law
2 a: not restrained or controlled by law

Brother Andre, this is not an important matter in regards to what they did. But, my question is why did they have to change that which was perfect? They did not. And, by so doing they help to confuse the issue of the gospel. Right now I am dealing with some who do not want to say sin is the transgression of the law, but want to go into another path that would take the ungrounded away from the truth. They begin to use other language including this phrase like it somehow has a different meaning. I am not nitpicking, only saying that in these new translations, especially one that says they appreciate the KJV, why do they need to change something, just to change it. The KJV was perfectly good and perfectly simple. In this case the translators have muddied the waters. Can you agree with me, dear brother?

BTW, do you appreciate my appreciation for what the NKJV did in 1 John 3?    I am trying. I truly have no bias.

I can give you a quick reading in how a Literal translation would read it. I do believe this will give insight to why it has been rendered the way it has been. I also do believe that the Crux of the verse is intact. Which is strangely enough how th Apostles quoted the OT, not all word for word, but they made sure they got the jist of the matter.

1Jn 3:4  Every one who is doing the sin, the lawlessness also he doth do, and the sin is the lawlessness,
Young's Literal Translation of the Holy Bible by J.N. Young, 1862, 1898

Brother Richard, I do believe if you do a few more comparisson's you would find the NKJV a very good source, maybe it might be a better version to give to new Christians, especially younger one's, knowing that firstly the message is the same as the KJV, and that secondly, the people would be able to understand the language much better. This is all about understanding the Bible, and making it available to the masses, without tampering or dumbing down the Word of God.