Author Topic: Romans 7 and 8  (Read 242931 times)

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Mimi

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #360 on: October 27, 2012, 05:15:32 PM »
 :)

Peter, can you convince me of that with a verse by verse study of Romans 7? Thus far, we have 18 pages of discussion defending the fact that this is not a converted condition. Have you read them and can you convince me our position is wrong?
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Peter L

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #361 on: October 27, 2012, 06:10:59 PM »
It is important to know who Paul is speaking to.
Romans 7:1
(1)  Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Paul in Romans is explaining the difference between justification by works and justification by faith. Because it was taught by some that they had to keep the Law to be saved
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Mimi

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #362 on: October 28, 2012, 05:56:11 AM »
Good morning! I have read your posts in other topics and you believe a new heart is given upon conversion. Amen to that, therefore my question, how could it be Romans 7 represents a person with a new heart?

It is important that you read what has been posted in this board. It is an ongoing study.  Here is a case in point http://remnant-online.com/smf/index.php?topic=742.msg151988#msg151988
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Peter L

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #363 on: October 28, 2012, 12:55:48 PM »
I have studied Romans 7 & 8 and I agree that there is no excuse for sin. Look at verse 1 Paul is talking to them that know the Law. There were some in the early church who taught salvation by works as mentioned in Acts 15. Paul in Romans is addressing the issue of justification by works vs Justification by faith. We are not justified by the Law, we are justified by Faith in what Christ has done for us and then Romans 8 gives more detail it gives detail as to what justification by faith leads to.
Romans 8:3-4
(3)  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(4)  That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Keeping the Law will not make us right with God and any who teach that are teaching justification by works. We are justified by faith in Christ and the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in us because we walk after the Spirit. Steps to Christ was written just after 1888 and is Ellen White's answer to righteousness by faith except she puts it much better than Waggoner & Jones
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Peter L

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #364 on: October 28, 2012, 01:21:29 PM »
Look at previous chapters
Romans 3:20-22
(20)  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(21)  But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(22)  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

This shows that Paul is addressing the issue of righteousness by faith vs righteousness by works. In Romans 7 & 8 he is giving more detail into the issue. Remember in Romans 7:1 who Paul is addressing as it must be noted that he is speaking to them that know the Law not to them that do not know the Law. We recently went over Romans in the Bible study guide not long ago. The problem in Romans 7 is understanding true righteousness. He is speaking about people that know the Law but, do not have a correct understanding of true righteousness.
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Peter L

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #365 on: October 28, 2012, 05:50:32 PM »
So it is an issue with doctrine. Justification by works vs justification by faith.
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Mimi

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #366 on: October 28, 2012, 05:59:35 PM »
Not wholly. When you are prepared to read what has been stated in this board, let me know and we will pick up this conversation.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Peter L

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #367 on: October 28, 2012, 06:05:34 PM »
So you want me to agree first?
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Mimi

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #368 on: October 28, 2012, 06:14:43 PM »
I asked that you read this study. You will discover how we reached our conclusions.

I also asked that you lay out, verse by verse, how you came to yours. Do you agree to do that?  :)
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Peter L

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #369 on: October 28, 2012, 07:50:51 PM »
I read the other posts and there were others who disagreed as well so not everyone came to the same conclusion
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Peter L

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #370 on: October 29, 2012, 12:20:46 AM »
I continue to study the Book of Romans, especially in the light of chapters seven and eight.

Most who believe Romans seven is Paul's Christian experience make excuses for sin. And, a few others who think that we ought not sin, have an interesting view. They believe it is Paul talking about the battle he faces after conversion. I have given these individuals credit for being right about their gospel message because they say that God gives power to obey. I cannot speak for all who think this way, but some I have found appear to say one thing, yet do another.  They do not appear to have gotten the victory over sin. I am not taking about an occasional sin, but they appear to treat sin lightly.  Their emphasis is on a justification that treats sanctification matter of factly.  They abhor Phariseeism and therefore have no desire to discuss the perfection of Christian character.  This attitude leads me to believe that they do not understand the gospel message and that their interpretation of Romans seven is based upon their own experience. This is always a very sad situation.

In the past, I have tried to give the benefit of doubt to the possibility that they could be right, but more and more I am seeing that it cannot be.  In Romans 7:18,  when Paul says "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not," it is not true of his experience as a converted Christian. After his conversion, Paul understood how to perform that which is good. "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."  Philippians 4:13. In verse 14, when Paul said "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin,"  he could not have been speaking of the converted Paul. No, he understood that to be carnally minded would reveal he was separated from God. "For to be carnally minded is death."  Romans 8:6. 

If we allowed these verses in Roman seven to be Paul speaking of his post conversion experience, we could say that some take their eyes off of Jesus and then they sin. How very true. I recall many times having sinned after being truly converted. We do not believe in once saved always saved, nor do we believe that once one is converted that the battle ceases. No, it continues. Let us look at a post conversion experience and see how it squares with Romans 7.

Like Moses when he struck the Rock, one sins after being converted.  Can you imagine Moses saying "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not." or how about this; "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"  Romans 7: 7:18, 24.  No, Moses instead fell on his face and repented in great sorrow. He knew who would deliver him and he knew how to keep from sinning.

Many accept Romans 7 as the Christian experience because it is their experience after baptism. They have never learned how to obey. Romans 8 is the text book along with the lessons Jesus gave while walking in our flesh upon this earth.  "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." Romans 8:10. Listen to Paul:  "if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you." Romans 8:9. Does the Spirit of God dwell in you? If so, you will not sin. Paul knew, he did not have to ask, he understood.

Before Paul's conversion he still wanted to follow God, he wanted to do what was right unlike someone who does not want to or has no desire to follow God. Paul before he understood and gave his life to Christ was a Pharisee and lived by what they taught, justification by works. After he gives his life to Christ and understands the gospel he then understands about justification by faith. Verse 1 Paul tells us that he is speaking to them that know the Law. Romans 7 & 8 Paul gives the correct doctrine of righteousness by faith and tells the difference between the two.

There are many today who love God and want to follow Him but, have an incorrect doctrine of righteousness by faith. They think that the Law was done away when in fact righteousness by faith leads us to keeping God's Law. In the early church the Jews and even some within the church taught salvation by works.
Quote
Acts 15:1
(1)  And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Romans 7 & 8 is speaking of someone who loves God but does not have the correct doctrine of righteousness by faith. Paul wanted to follow God before he met Christ but, did not have the correct doctrine.

Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Richard Myers

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #371 on: October 29, 2012, 06:46:34 AM »
Yes, dear brother, you are so right. Romans seven is Paul's experience as a Pharisee. Patient and prayerful study will help us to better understand Scripture and what each other believe. There are many in the church just like Saul, the Pharisee. They love God, they believe they are serving God correctly, but do not know that they are righteous Pharisees. They go about teaching others a false doctrine, they hurt others because they do not have Christ enthroned upon their hearts, they beat others over the head with the law of God, and some may even go as far as Saul when he incited the death of Stephen and then proceeded to persecute the true Christians.

You have it just right, Peter. Romans seven is indeed the expression of the experience of Paul when he was a Pharisee, but something happened in Romans seven and we move into a new arena in Saul's life. He remains a Pharisee, but he gains another perspective in Romans seven that he tells us of. The law of God is seen in a different manner. He thought he was alive without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and he died. He did not die to self as some teach, no. He saw himself dead spiritually. The commandment which was ordained to life, revealed to Saul that he was under condemnation, a sentence of death.  Saul had thought that he was keeping the law, but as he got a better understanding of what the law requires, he saw that he was a lawbreaker. Being a good Pharisee who knew that he had to keep the law to go to heaven, he then attempted to keep the law, but having no Saviour, he could not.

There are many in the church today who know that if they are breaking the law, they are under condemnation, but they like Saul have no power to keep the law in and of themselves. So, like Romans seven they find themselves doing what they do not want to do and not doing what they want to do. Saul strived to keep the law because he wanted to serve God. He loved God. But, he did not love God enough. He had not yet been converted. He rejected Christ as Saviour and thus had no indwelling presence of Christ. He therefore murdered Christians.  As the Holy Spirit convicted Saul of his sins, Saul understood more and more that he was resisting the truth, but not having a Saviour, it could do nothing about it. He continued in his sins. He abhorred himself and his sin. He wanted to do good. He knew the law was good, and wanted to keep it. As time goes by, he finally falls on his face and cries out to the God of heaven, the God he believes he is serving, the God he loves, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"  He knows he is condemned by the broken law, and he knows that he cannot do anything but sin. He is indeed wretched. But, no longer blind. He is not a proud Pharisee, but a broken sinner in search of a Savior, for he no longer see himself as a keeper of the law. When he meets Jesus, it is in answer to his prayer. He does not argue, but accepts Christ as God. Jesus says to him, "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." Yes, it was getting harder and harder for Saul to resist the Spirit who was telling Saul that he was spiritually dead and needed a Savior. Saul's response? "And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?" He was converted on the road to Damascus. The proud Pharisee had loved God, but loved self more. The requirement for conversion is to love God with all the heart, to be filled with the Holy Spirit, to love ones neighbor. Saul did not meet this requirement. He did not believe by faith in God, but was attempting to work his way to heaven by what he thought were good works. He had been a proud Pharisee and the religion of the Pharisee was a Christless, loveless religion of "good works".   Romans seven is Paul's explanation of how he transitioned from a proud Pharisee to a broken sinner in search of a Savior. He ends the chapter with his discovery of the power of God to give him the victory over sin, over his flesh.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Peter L

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #372 on: October 29, 2012, 12:18:16 PM »
So the experience of Romans 7 is not of someone of the world who has no desire or want to follow God but, of someone who does love God and are deceived into thinking that they are OK when they are not. Just like Paul before he gave his life to Christ loved God and thought he was following God until he met Christ. There are many in church to day who love God and think they are OK when they are lukewarm. When we read Romans 7 we can see who he is speaking to and his experience before he met Christ does not look like someone of the world but yet does not look like someone fully converted.
Romans 7:1
(1)  Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Romans 7:9
(9)  For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Romans 7:22
(22)  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

So he is speaking of someone who loves God but is not fully converted and after he meets Christ he sees his true condition.
Romans 7:9
(9)  For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.





Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Peter L

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #373 on: October 29, 2012, 06:01:55 PM »
Richard just one more thing to add to what you said in previous chapters he is explaining the difference between justification by works and justification by faith, then chapter 7 tells of his own experience and how the truth set him free.
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Richard Myers

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #374 on: October 29, 2012, 11:16:21 PM »
Yes, Peter, I agree.  Paul has a very interesting story to tell. It is a little different from what many have experienced today in the church. His story is very important to understand because he wrote most of the New Testament. His experience has set the stage for his writings. He was not a raving liberal who hated the law as many in professing Christian churches are today. They teach that one does not have to keep the law, but is saved in sin. Paul was the opposite before he was converted. He knew one had to keep the law and set about to do it in his own strength without Jesus. It colored his teaching. If we do not understand his history, his hate of Phariseeism, then we will misunderstand his writings, most of the New Testament. This is the case with the Evangelicals. They misapply his writings, and that has found its way into our church also. And, it is not limited to liberals, but conservatives have often misunderstood.

You have got a good grasp of the need to have a heart change, not just an outward appearance of righteousness. Paul continued through many of his Books to explain the need to have God's Spirit in our hearts, not just outward "works". He was not only attempting to reach his old Pharisee friends who were deceived as he had been, but he was especially concerned about his churches that he had raised up only to find that Judaizers had come into them and led many astray, away from Christ into works. When we look for this in Corinthians and Galatians, we will find exactly what you are saying you have found in Romans. He is doing all he can to reveal the great deception that had led him astray to the point where he had murdered disciples of Jesus. Yes, he hated the false religion of "works" which had dominated his nation, God's chosen people.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Peter L

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #375 on: October 30, 2012, 12:08:34 AM »
When I first started going to church, (I was not raised in church but was converted through a friend I grew up with) I was involved with CB's and hearing sermons that taught the need to keep God's commandments and condemned new theology and the NIV. We often heard sermons about keeping God's commandments, after a while it became discouraging because the way the sermons were is that we need to keep the commandments to be saved. The thing that was lacking in the sermons was how to attain true righteousness.

It was not until I studied it for myself that I seen that we are justified by faith that we are not saved because we are worthy but, because He is worthy. Keeping the commandments are important but we do not keep the commandments to be saved keeping the commandments is the fruit of having Christ in us. I have learned that we cannot just teach the Law we need to teach Christ in the Law which is what Paul does.  I like forums like this so we can discuss and learn more.
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Richard Myers

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #376 on: October 30, 2012, 06:19:58 AM »
Amen! Peter, you have benefited from studying for yourself. Many trust their salvation to what others have said, not to what the Bible actually teaches. They read books, books, and more books, but neglect to study their Bibles. The 1888 message was justification by faith, a faith that results in good works. Obedience is the fruit of Christ enthroned in the heart.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Mimi

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #377 on: October 30, 2012, 06:22:13 AM »
It was not until I studied it for myself that I seen that we are justified by faith that we are not saved because we are worthy but, because He is worthy. Keeping the commandments are important but we do not keep the commandments to be saved keeping the commandments is the fruit of having Christ in us. I have learned that we cannot just teach the Law we need to teach Christ in the Law which is what Paul does.  I like forums like this so we can discuss and learn more.

Amen!
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Glen

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #378 on: November 03, 2012, 08:22:06 AM »

It is important to know who Paul is speaking to.
Romans 7:1
(1)  Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Paul in Romans is explaining the difference between justification by works and justification by faith. Because it was taught by some that they had to keep the Law to be saved

Yes, Paul was speaking to the Jews, especially those from whose ranks (Pharisees) he had been called from by God while on the road to Damascus. Isn't it ironic that while most of the Jews in Paul's time understood that God had inspired "the Law" (of ordinances) AND the Moral Law, the truth remains that....unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 1:15, 16 The Jews, for the most part, for all their "carefulness" and Tradition, ....they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.Be not deceived; NONETHELESS; there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek.... Romans 10:12

Sowing is work:
Adam and Eve knew the law (word) of God. Eve
....saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise.... Genesis 3:6 Yet, God had expressly commanded that ....of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it.... Genesis 2:17 In a certain very real sense, as Eve was contemplating the sin, she saw herself picking that forbidden fruit before she actually did, and had one moment to respond to the Spirit of God, just as we do. While contemplating her choice, she might have joyfully exclaimed, as did Paul, ....who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.... Romans 7:24, 25 -In contemplating the temptation; knowing that God had said that the day she ate of it she would die, she might have exclaimed, "There, but for the word (grace) of God, go I." -and reveled in the victory thus obtained! Sin never need to have tainted the human race; nor you, nor I, from henceforth! No matter our inherited tendency or propensity, or to what depth of vile degradation we have fallen; even in Laodicea; we may receive the mind of Christ. When we receive that mind, we can no more sin than did Christ while in the likeness of sinful flesh. With Christ dwelling within our soul-temple, we will work the works of God, in Love; to God, and to mankind.

In order to meet the requirements of the law, our faith must grasp the righteousness of Christ, accepting it as our righteousness. Through union with Christ, through acceptance of His righteousness by faith, we may be qualified to work the works of God, to be colaborers with Christ. If you are willing to drift along with the current of evil, and do not cooperate with the heavenly agencies in restraining transgression in your family, and in the church, in order that everlasting righteousness may be brought in, you do not have faith....  1SM 374.1

God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. Galatians 6:7-9

....God; 6 ....will render to every man according to his DEEDS: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with....there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but THE DOERS OF THE LAW shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew THE WORK OF THE LAW written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness.... Romans 2:5-15

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:15[/color] -Tell me the name of one man or one woman or one child that will be saved, who have not Cast away from (themselves) all (their) transgressions, whereby (they) have transgressed; and (made themselves) a new heart and a new spirit; who, does not keep the Law of God, (We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 1 John 5:18) be it ever so briefly, as did the thief on the cross? This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. John 6:29 As a Jew, the thief also knew of the Law; he obviously, prior to his incarceration, hadn't found the Answer to his spiritual dilemma. Certainly he "came to  his right mind", and will be "saved" (Hebrews 11:40), the same way as all mankind; while, perhaps, not having comprehended that: ....faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 [color]black]The thief manifested in that short time, through his request to Christ on the cross, true belief that Christ could save him from his Sin(s). Had the thief been let down from his cross, he would have willed and done that which Christ, through the Holy Spirit, will have willed in him to will and to do. (See Philippians 2:13) AND, as Paul mentioned to the Thessalonians, ....the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 2 Thessalonians3:3-5

James ....by the same Spirit.... 1 Corinthians 12:9 almost stridently announces ....wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? James 2:20-22

....when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:20-23
...Jesus...will live through (YOU), giving (YOU) the inspiration of His sanctifying Spirit, imparting to (YOUR) soul a vital transfusion of Himself. Sabbath-School Worker 02-01-96.03  ...as the blood

Glen

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Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #379 on: November 03, 2012, 08:26:59 AM »
What speech is to thought, so is Christ to the invisible Father. He is the manifestation of the Father, and is called the Word of God. God sent His Son into the world, His divinity clothed with humanity, that man might bear the image of the invisible God. He made known in His words, His character, His power and majesty, the nature and attributes of God. Divinity flashed through humanity in softening, subduing light. He was the embodiment of the law of God, which is the transcript of His character (Manuscript 77, 1899).

As Christ represented the Father, so we are to represent Christ to the world.We cannot transfer our obligation to others. God desires to make known to you what is the richness of his glory, that you may preach the mystery of salvation to those around you, -Christ in you the hope of glory.
RH March 5, 1889, par. 6

The knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ expressed in character is an exaltation above everything that is esteemed in earth or in heaven. It is the very highest education. It is the very key that opens to us the portals of heaven, that we may obtain eternal life, an immortal inheritance, and eternal substance. All who have this knowledge are constantly advancing heavenward. They have a good report in their own family, in the church, and in the world. Manuscript Releases Volume Six 165.02


The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Regarding Jew OR Gentile:
EVERY SINNER; those who know the Law, as well as those who do not, will come to salvation the same way.

This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. John 6:29 ....whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:15

....God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. Romans 12:3


By His death we are reconciled to God; by His life, as it is wrought out in our life, we shall be saved....
The Signs of the Times June 17, 1903

The Lord Jesus loves His people, and when they put their trust in Him, depending wholly upon Him, He strengthens them. He will live through them, giving them the inspiration of His sanctifying Spirit, imparting to the soul a vital transfusion of Himself. He acts through their faculties and causes them to choose His will and to act out His character. With the apostle Paul they then may say, “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me” (Galatians 2:20).... That I May Know Him 78.3

The impartation of the Spirit is the impartation of the life of Christ. Those only who are thus taught of God, those only who possess the inward working of the Spirit, and in whose life the Christ-life is manifested, can stand as true representatives of the Saviour.... God's Amazing Grace 212.3
...Jesus...will live through (YOU), giving (YOU) the inspiration of His sanctifying Spirit, imparting to (YOUR) soul a vital transfusion of Himself. Sabbath-School Worker 02-01-96.03  ...as the blood