Romans 7 and 8

[Carla Hepker]

It seems to me that we need to look at Romans 6, 7, and 8 to get a more complete picture. Actually, it is hard to know where to start in Romans, since Paul has a continuing theme going. But, I still think that if we are going to look at Romans 7, we need to include Romans 6.

Could someone summarize Romans 1 - 5?

[Carla Hepker]

Actually, I decided to look in the SDA Bible Commentary and they have a good summary there of chapters 1 - 5 of Romans. This should give us a good springboard into Romans 6.

A.   The doctrine of justification by faith, 1:16 to 5:21.
   1.      Righteousness attained by faith, 1:16, 17.
   2.      The universal need of righteousness, 1:18 to 3:20.
         a.   The failure of the Gentiles, 1:18–32.
         b.   The failure of the Jews, 2:1 to 3:20.
   3.      Righteousness provided in Christ, 3:21–31.
   4.      Righteousness by faith an Old Testament doctrine, 4:1–25.
   5.      The blessed effects of justification, 5:1–11.
   6.      The effects of justification contrasted with the results of Adam’s fall, 5:12–21.

Nichol, Francis D., The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, (Washington, D.C.: Review and Herald Publishing Association) 1978.

So, in Romans 1 - 5, Paul deals with Justification by faith - how my past sins are forgiven.

I did not look at the summary for chapters 6 - 8, though I did notice that they are grouped together and deal with sanctification by faith. I agree with that over all summary, but I would like to look at these three chapters in depth.

[Richard Myers]

You are so very right, dear sister!  Romans six is intimately tied into Romans seven and eight. It does not allow for the false teaching of a converted Christian in seven. It is very pointed and is in perfect harmony with chapter eight and the rest of the Bible.

[Glen]

Quick question. If Romans 7 is preconversion how could Paul delight in the law of God ? It seems like this is mid converson.

....not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts.... Romans 2:13-15

Before his conversion, Saul was not a Gentile, but a Jew; however, because of the darkness of his mind, Saul was carnal; in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were (exposed) by the law, did work in (his) members to bring forth fruit unto death. Romans 7:5 Saul, converted, later known as Paul, ....earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day. Acts 23:1

With all our profession to know God, all (we) contemporary Christians stand in great peril; for we yet presume upon the grace of God when we think we may continue in sin.

....the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools... Romans 1:18-22

....God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. Romans 12:3

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.... Malachi 4:5

....there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah? 1 Kings 19:9, 13

What about it; are we truly men of the hour? "What doest (we) here...."? How well, or are we, resisting sin today, during this Anti-typical Day of Atonement? Are we experiencing in our daily walk, today, that "advantage" Christ had while here on earth? Do we possess, and does His Spirit possess, us?

Of His own life the Saviour said: “I have kept My Father’s commandments.” “The Father hath not left Me alone; for I do always those things that please Him.” John 15:10; 8:29. As Jesus was in human nature, so God means His followers to be. In His strength we are to live the life of purity and nobility which the Saviour lived. 8T 289.03

He who cannot resist temptation, with every facility which has been placed within his reach, is not registered in the books of heaven as a man. The Lord never places men in positions so trying that it is beyond their power to withstand evil. Divine power is ever ready to protect and strengthen him who has been made a partaker of the divine nature. Christian Temperance and Bible Hygiene, Page 22.01

In this time of well-nigh universal apostasy, God calls upon His messengers to proclaim His law in the spirit and power of Elias. As John the Baptist, in preparing a people for Christ’s first advent, called their attention to the Ten Commandments, so we are to give, with no uncertain sound, the message: “Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come.” With the earnestness that characterized Elijah the prophet and John the Baptist, we are to strive to prepare the way for Christ’s second advent.
The Southern Work 3-21-1905

[Richard Myers]

Yes, Glen, we have in the professing Christian Churches of today, men and women who do not understand the gospel message. They do not know the love of God and His justice.  But, there is coming a message that will either draw them to Christ or forever cause them to leave God's church. The message will be similar to what John the Baptist preached, as much as many cannot bear to hear it: "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bing forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 
  3:9   And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.  And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire: 
  3:12   Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Matthew 3:7-12.

[Carla Hepker]

Romans 6, 7, and 8 go together and speak of the Christian life of sanctification. Romans 1 - 5 dealt with being justified, having our past sins forgiven. Romans 6 talks about the beginning of the life of sanctification. The thing is, though, that we have to die daily. Paul indicates in Galatians 2:20 that he is crucified with Christ, I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.. In 1 Corinthians 15:31 he indicates that he dies daily, I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Also, we know that sanctification is the work of a lifetime. Why? Because as my relationship with Jesus strengthens, I see more and more just how much hold my carnal self has on me. Romans 7 is not the response of someone who is unconverted, but of someone who compares themselves to the holy, just, and good commandment and realizes how far they fall short.

They know, beyond shadow of doubt that the law will not save them - verses 1 - 4. They are no longer married to the law, because the old man is dead. The old man is the belief that there is salvation from the law or in some form apart from Jesus. They have been raised to a new life by the power of God, the same power that raised Christ from the grave. That old man is gone, and now the new man lives free from the law of sin and death. However, the new man is alive in a carnal physical body. The only way that I can continue to keep sin out of my life is to continually serve the law of God with my mind, even though I live in a sinful body and will continue to do so until Jesus comes.

However, in Christ Jesus, there is no condemnation and no yielding to sin. Temptation is not sin. The fact that I live is a sinful body that is geared toward sinning is not sin. Yielding to temptation is sin.

Romans 7 is the battle that the Christian must go through continually to fight the good fight. We can never say, "I have arrived. My sinful nature is no longer a problem for me." We can cry, O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? And we must answer, I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I recognize that the sinful nature that I have drags me down and would lead me into sin. But I claim the victory through Jesus Christ my Lord and do not serve or give in to the law of flesh. In other words, I am governed by my choice to serve God. I am not governed by my carnal nature or by my natural desires, the desires of the flesh.

[Richard Myers]

I recognize that the sinful nature that I have drags me down and would lead me into sin. But I claim the victory through Jesus Christ my Lord and do not serve or give in to the law of flesh. In other words, I am governed by my choice to serve God. I am not governed by my carnal nature or by my natural desires, the desires of the flesh.

Amen, in other words you are not a slave to the law of sin and death which is in your members, nor do you do the things you do not want to do. And, you are obedient to the things which you know you ought to do. You are filled with the Holy Spirit and walk after the Spirit, so you have been set free from the law of sin and death. Praise God!! 

Let's take a look at the life of Paul as shared from his past experience when he was Saul. He tells us much in Romans seven.

 7:5 "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were
               by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit
               unto death."

               When we were unconverted, sin, which is known by the law, was
               done by our flesh which brings us under the condemnation of the
               broken law.

               7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein
               we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in
               the oldness of the letter."

               Now we delivered from the bondage of the law (the law cannot
               save, only condemn),being spiritually dead in that bondage (wages
               of sin is death); that NOW being converted we should serve in the
               (HOLY) Spirit, and not in outward appearance only (whited sepulchar).

               7:7 "What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid.Nay, I had
               not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the
               law had said, Thou shalt not covet."


               Shall we say the law is wrong? God forbid!!
               I would not have known I was sinning and lost and condemned if it
               was not for the law: I would not have known I was lusting if I did
               not know the law that says, thou shalt not covet.

               7:8 "But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all
               manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was
               dead."

               Sin (transgression of the law), now that the law is known, revealed
               all manner of evil in me. Before I knew the law, I did not know sin.

               7:9 "For I was alive without the law once: but when the
               commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

               I did not know I was under condemnation (death sentence) without
               a knowledge of the depth of the law: but when I found out about the
               depth of the law, that it reaches to the intents of the heart, then I
               became guilty and saw myself spiritually dead (the law slayed me).
               

               7:10 "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to
               be unto death."

               And the commandments which are Holy and just, and given for our
               good, I found to cause my spiritual death (under the condemnation
               of the bronken law).

               Poor Saul, he is really confused. He was brought under condemnation
               by the law of God and knows not how to get out from under the
               death sentence. He, like most other Pharisees, prided themselves in
               keeping the law, so it was quite a shock to him to find himself a law
               breaker. The Holy Spirit began to convince him of his sins after he
               participated in the stoning of Stephen.

               7:11 "For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me,
               and by it slew me."

               For breaking the commandments that I then had knowledge of, I
               came under condemnation. I knew I was walking after the flesh.

               7:12 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and
               just, and good."

               I see the law is good.

               7:13 "Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid.
               But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which
               is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding
               sinful."

               Was the good law causing me to die? God forbid!!! The
               commandments showed me I was under condemnation and then I
               could see the great evil of breaking the commandments.

               7:14 "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold
               under sin."

               We know the Ten Commandments are of God, but I am unholy, and
               cannot help but sin. I am a slave to sin and cannot help myself. I
               cannot stop sinning. I have no good fruit in my life. I manifest the
               works of the flesh for I am carnal, of the flesh.

               7:15 "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not;
               but what I hate, that do I."

               Really, I cannot do good even though I really want to. I want to quit
               stealing, but I cannot. I want to love my neighbor, but I cannot. I
               hate taking the Lord's name in vain, but I do it.

Paul was not converted, but he was learning of his need of a Saviour. Where are we today? Do we find ourselves in this situation, not being able to quit sinning? Not knowing how to walk in the Spirit? There is a solution to the problem. Paul will reveal the solution as we continue listening to his testimony.

[Richard Myers]

Are we all together so far?  Do we see that Paul is sharing his experience of how it was that he saw himself as a condemned Pharisee? That the law of God revealed he was condemned?

[Carla Hepker]

Are we all together so far?  Do we see that Paul is sharing his experience of how it was that he saw himself as a condemned Pharisee? That the law of God revealed he was condemned?

No. Sorry.

Saul did not love the law. He hated the law because no matter how much he did to keep the law, he couldn't and didn't and was not happy. He even went so far as to persecute Christians, but he still did not love the law.

The experience of Romans 7, as I understand it, is the experience of the Christian who has been baptized. That is why Romans 7 comes after Romans 6. That is why I pointed out that we have to die daily. My hatred of sin and love for my Savior cause me to submit my life to Jesus each and every day. Romans 7:16, 17, 18 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

It does not matter how complete my conversion was at the time of my baptism. That conversion (recognizing my need of my Savior and submitting my will to Him) was then. I need to recognize my need of Him and submit to Him each and every day. I am not in a once saved - always saved condition. Sanctification is a series of justifications - forgiveness for my past sins and a decision not to continue in sin.

I am still living in a sinful body and will be until Jesus comes. The only way that I can live a perfect life is to be in Him, to realize that how to perform that which is good is not in me, but that it comes from Him. Romans 7:22-25 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This battle between the law of flesh and the law of God that is in my mind is not going to stop until Jesus comes. We go down a dangerous path when we want to say that the battle is over, that the battle that Paul is talking about here is that of an unconverted man. Down that path you find the "Holy Flesh" people, those who say that they are saved and whatever they do is holy, just, and good, because the old man of sin is dead and, therefore, whatever they do certainly is not sin.

Don't forget that Romans 8 comes after Romans 7, just like Romans 7 comes after Romans 6. In Romans 8 Paul continues the discussion. He points out that There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. I, until Jesus comes, have to make a choice every day (or more often) as to whether I am going to walk after the Spirit, doing the things of the Spirit, or after the flesh, doing the things of the flesh. Continuing in Romans 8 Paul entreats them and us to continue walking in the Spirit. He shares with us the advantages and disadvantages. There is only one thing that can separate me from the love of God, a love that is powerful enough to give His Son for me and to save me, and that thing is me. I can choose not to walk with the Spirit.

We are seeing this happen to many people, many trees whose fruit over the years gave evidence that they were good trees, but in the last few months and years, there have been changes. I am not willing to say that these people were never converted, that they never walked in newness of life. I am willing to say that at some point they chose to walk not after the Spirit, but after the flesh.

[Richard Myers]

Carla, I agree with you in regards to the gospel. That is the most important subject. Sadly, the mis-teaching of Romans seven is used to pervert the power of grace of which you speak.

If we go back to the verses I quoted so far, can you point out my error?

[Carla Hepker]

Richard,

I went back to where this got restarted (sort of) on October 26, 2009. You posted about Romans 8:1 and I agree with what you said. I read all the comments forward from there.

On January 11, 2011, you said

If Christians understood that good fruit can only come from a good tree and bad fruit can only come from a bad tree, they would not be so deceived. Yet, these words from Jesus are not taken to heart. Bad fruit continues to come from good trees in the gospel being taught throughout Christendom.

I agree with the part that I colored, but the last sentence contradicts that. We can't have bad fruit coming from good trees, can we?

On April 13, 2012, you said

Most who believe Romans seven is Paul's Christian experience make excuses for sin. {Good thing I didn't read this before I made my comments! - This is my comment and was not a part of your original comment!}  And, a few others who think that we ought not sin, have an interesting view. They believe it is Paul talking about the battle he faces after conversion. I have given these individuals credit for being right about their gospel message because they say that God gives power to obey. I cannot speak for all who think this way, but some I have found appear to say one thing, yet do another. They do not appear to have gotten the victory over sin. I am not talking about an occasional sin, but they appear to treat sin lightly. Their emphasis is on a justification that treats sanctification matter-of-factly. They abhor Pharisee-ism and therefore have no desire to discuss the perfection of Christian character. This attitude leads me to believe that they do not understand the gospel message and that their interpretation of Romans seven is based upon their own experience. This is always a very sad situation.

In the past, I have tried to give the benefit of doubt to the possibility that they could be right, but more and more I am seeing that it cannot be. In Romans 7:18, when Paul says, "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not," it is not true of his experience as a converted Christian.

This is where I disagree. And let me be quick to add that I firmly believe that we, as members of Christ's family, must be found perfect before Him.

Paul did, as you stated further down on April 13th, indicate I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. He understood very clearly that without Christ his carnal nature would take over again. Glen quoted from the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald 10-12-97.07 It is essential to live by every word of God, else our old nature will constantly reassert itself. It is the Holy Spirit, the redeeming grace of truth in the soul, that makes the followers of Christ one with one another, and one with God.

This is why I believe that Romans 7 is describing the life of a converted Christian, one who is dead to the law as a means of salvation and chooses to walk after the Spirit, but one who is still living in his carnal body. I agree with everything you wrote today up until the paragraph that begins "Poor Saul, he is really confused."

Romans 7 is not a statement of confusion. It is a statement of fact. A converted Christian does have two natures: carnal (corruptible) and spiritual. Like I said before, it is not until Jesus comes that we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53. We have to choose daily to overcome the corruptible nature, knowing and believing that we are able to since in Christ all things are possible and God gives the power to become sons of God to those who receive Him and believe on His name.

As you have stated, Romans 8 is not a chapter of cheap grace. It is a chapter indicating that we can choose to walk in the Spirit and not after the flesh. Romans 8:13 indicates that it will be a struggle, but well worth it, For if you live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 6 - 8 speak of hope, of living a sanctified (holy, perfect) life through the power of the Spirit. They also indicate very clearly that this life of sanctification is not an easy life. We need to be crucified with Christ daily, on-going. We need to fight the good fight of faith, so that at the end of our lives, whether it is when Jesus comes or before, we can say, with Paul, 2 timothy 4: 7, 8 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which  the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

I am so sorry this is so long!

[Richard Myers]

Richard,

I went back to where this got restarted (sort of) on October 26, 2009. You posted about Romans 8:1 and I agree with what you said. I read all the comments forward from there.

On January 11, 2011, you said

If Christians understood that good fruit can only come from a good tree and bad fruit can only come from a bad tree, they would not be so deceived. Yet, these words from Jesus are not taken to heart. Bad fruit continues to come from good trees in the gospel being taught throughout Christendom.

I agree with the part that I colored, but the last sentence contradicts that. We can't have bad fruit coming from good trees, can we?

No, we can't. Let me rephrase my statement. The false "gospel" being taught throughout Christendom teaches that bad fruit comes from good trees.

[Richard Myers]

I am still at a loss to understand where you believe I erred in my post where I commented on verses five through fifteen.

[Cop]

In the first verses of Romans 7, Paul speaks in the past tense, as of what occurred in his past. But starting at verse 14 on to the end of the chapter, he speaks in the present tense,  of what is taking place in his spiritual life at that time. As a born again child of God, he is in battle against the sinful inclinations and habits of his carnal flesh.

EGW  here speaks of Paul in Romans 7 as being a converted, born again Christian and uses it as an example to the unconverted. As she says here, only the man who has surrendered to Christ will, “delight in the law of God”.

“I beseech you to make an unreserved surrender to God, and to make it now, just now. When you make this surrender you will have an experience entirely different from the experience that you have had for many years. Then you will be able to say with the apostle Paul, "I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ"  "I delight in the law of God after the inward man" (Romans 7:22).” {11MR 312.3}

In this statement, she speaks of the spiritual growth of the converted soul. She again uses Paul and his confession of Romans 7 as another example of what a truly converted Christian is to be.

“The nearer we come to Jesus, and the more clearly we discern the purity of His character, the more clearly shall we see the exceeding sinfulness of sin, and the less shall we feel like exalting ourselves. There will be a continual reaching out of the soul after God, a continual, earnest, heartbreaking confession of sin and humbling of the heart before Him. At every advance step in our Christian experience our repentance will deepen. We shall know that our sufficiency is in Christ alone and shall make the apostle's confession our own: "I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing." "God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world." Romans 7:18; Galatians 6:14.” {AA 561}

In this quote, she says that Christians “are carnal”.

“But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin." Romans 7:13-14.  But though we are carnal, we are to reckon ourselves "dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” {ST, October 1, 1894}

I have always taken Romans 7 to be Paul speaking of the spiritual struggle that takes place within a converted Christian. I can not see an unconverted person having this struggle because they ignore all things spiritual and have no desire to battle against sin in their lives.

It definitely speaks of the experience that I have had in my spiritual growth as I have battled and struggled with self. Do I believe you can continue in sin and be a Christian? I think that you know I do not in any way, believe a person can continue in knowing willful sin and remain a child of God. I believe we must put away ALL sin if we are to enter God’s Presence. More and more I am learning to surrender to Christ. More and more I am seeing His victories in my life as He is destroying the attributes of self within me. I can not do it, but He IS doing it!

My understanding of Romans 7 is that Paul is telling us that there is not instant perfection upon conversion (as some are teaching in our churches today), but that there will be a war, a battle with self as we observe Christ, as we begin to desire a closer walk with Him, as we long to be like Him, and as we began to receive the character of Christ; that we must, "...die daily" to sin in our lives and gain the victory in order to dwell with Him.

God Bless

[Carla Hepker]

Amen!

[Richard Myers]

Cop, are you saying that verse 15 describes the converted Christian?

7:15   For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 

I would have to disagree. If I do that which I know is wrong, I am not converted. Christ is not in me.

[Carla Hepker]

A converted person is not a perfect person, otherwise Jesus would have come already. My goal is perfection, here and now, before Jesus comes, but there are times when I do that which I hate.

King David was a converted person as a youth. Did he go back and forth from being converted to being unconverted? No, there were times he sinned. But that did not change him into an unconverted person.

[JimB]

King David was a converted person as a youth. Did he go back and forth from being converted to being unconverted? No, there were times he sinned. But that did not change him into an unconverted person.

So a converted person remains converted while sinning? How do you understand the following text?

Luk_6:43  For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

[ejclark]

This entire article is a very good read.

When souls are converted, their salvation is not yet accomplished. They then have the race to run. An arduous struggle is before them, to do what?--To "fight the good fight of faith," to "press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." There is no release in this warfare; the battle is life-long, and must be carried forward with determination and energy proportionate to the value of the object to be attained, which is eternal life. Immense interests are here involved. We are made partakers of Christ's sacrifice here in this life, and if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end, we are assured that we shall be partakers of all the benefits of the future, immortal life.-{RH August 25, 1891 Par.2}

Maybe this will help.

[Carla Hepker]

King David was a converted person as a youth. Did he go back and forth from being converted to being unconverted? No, there were times he sinned. But that did not change him into an unconverted person.

So a converted person remains converted while sinning? How do you understand the following text?

Luk_6:43  For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

A person may not be able to tell the exact time or place, or trace all the chain of circumstances in the process of conversion; but this does not prove him to be unconverted. Christ said to Nicodemus, "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit." John 3:8. Like the wind, which is invisible, yet the effects of which are plainly seen and felt, is the Spirit of God in its work upon the human heart. That regenerating power, which no human eye can see, begets a new life in the soul; it creates a new being in the image of God. While the work of the Spirit is silent and imperceptible, its effects are manifest. If the heart has been renewed by the Spirit of God, the life will bear witness to the fact. While we cannot do anything to change our hearts or to bring ourselves into harmony with God; while we must not trust at all to ourselves or our good works, our lives will reveal whether the grace of God is dwelling within us. A change will be seen in the character, the habits, the pursuits. The contrast will be clear and decided between what they have been and what they are. The character is revealed, not by occasional good deeds and occasional misdeeds, but by the tendency of the habitual words and acts. {Signs of the Times , March 27, 1884 par. 12} 

An occasional misdeed does not mean that a person is unconverted. It means that the person is still living in this sinful world and is still waging the war against Satan.