Author Topic: 27 Principles of Music  (Read 73025 times)

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Mimi

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27 Principles of Music
« on: October 03, 2010, 11:33:21 AM »
Elder John Thurber will be sharing with us "27 Principles of Music" in this topic. We have a partial list elsewhere, but it is our desire to have all of them in one place so we may discuss them, point by point. It will be an education, so prepare to take notes for we have an able teacher!

Before getting to that, I want to thank Elder Thurber for his generosity in sharing - "Music in My Life" - as well as his experience within God's church. He has given the Lord many years of service and for that we wish to honor him for remaining faithful to that which was given him: the extraordinary talent of music.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2010, 08:46:14 AM »
I have 27 Principles that help me to choose “The Music of Heaven.”
 
One of the great sins that will keep us from heaven is Pride, Self-centeredness. This is one I struggle with in my own life. Could it be true in choosing music?

Principle No. 1 - “Not I but Christ, be honored loved exalted...”
Pride is one of the seven sins God hates. We were not created for personal stardom, but to glorify Him. When our human hearts are tempted to seek star status, we should remember the terrible fall of Lucifer, the very first “star.” We would also do well to consider the words of this old but timeless hymn:
 
To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech. Prov.8:13
 
God's servants should have so great respect for the sacred work they are handling that they will not bring into it one vestige of selfishness.

“Praise no man; flatter no man; and permit no man to praise or flatter you. Satan will do enough of this work. Lose sight of the instrument, and think of Jesus. Praise the Lord. Give glory to God. Make melody to God in your hearts. Talk of the truth. Talk of the Christian's hope, the Christian's heaven.” (Evangelism page 630)

How does pride get started in one’s life?
 
Could it be from childhood?

What is the difference between self esteem and pride?

Maybe showering children with gifts (birthdays - Christmas - and other events) makes them feel self importance self-centered - spoiled. I have seen children with so many gifts that they tear off the wrapping so fast that they set it aside with just a glance and grab another to repeat the same thing.

We are born selfish.

Here is what inspiration says: The Adventist Home, page 473, paragraph 3

Chapter Title: Holidays and Anniversaries
On birthday occasions the children should be taught that they have reason for gratitude to God for His loving-kindness in preserving their lives for another year. Precious lessons might thus be given. For life, health, food, and clothing, no less than for the hope of eternal life, we are indebted to the Giver of all mercies; and it is due to God to recognize His gifts and to present our offerings of gratitude to our greatest benefactor. These birthday gifts are recognized of Heaven.
 
Birthday Offerings:
Under the Jewish economy, on the birth of children an offering was made to God, by His own appointment. Now we see parents taking special pains to present gifts to their children upon their birthdays; they make this an occasion of honoring the child, as though honor were due to the human being. Satan has had his own way in these things; he has diverted the minds and the gifts to human beings; thus the thoughts of the children are turned to themselves, as if they were to be made the objects of special favor. That which should flow back to God in offerings to bless the needy and carry the light of truth to the world, is turned from the right channel, and frequently does more harm than good, encouraging vanity, pride, and self-importance. On birthday occasions the children should be taught that they have reason for gratitude to God for His loving-kindness in preserving their lives for another year. Precious lessons might thus be given. For life, health, food, and clothing, no less than for the hope of eternal life, we are indebted to the Giver of all mercies; and it is due to God to recognize His gifts, and to present our offerings of gratitude to our greatest benefactor. These birthday gifts are recognized of Heaven.-- Review and Herald, Dec. 9, 1890.

What do you think?

Richard Myers

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2010, 03:02:09 PM »
We are born selfish.....
What do you think?

Friend John, it is interesting that you begin your sharing on music with this thought. It is right to the point. Music is to glorify God, not to please self. It is a form of communications with God, praising His holy name.Thanking Him for all He has done for us, telling of His goodness.

There is a problem with music. It seldom does what it was designed to do. Most in the world have used music for other purposes and there is one who is set on using music to destroy those whom God is attempting to save. Music is a tool in Satan's hand to lead multitudes to their death. And, some in the world understand this very well. They know they are part of this Satanic plan and they speak of it in their music. Self is alive and well in the music of the world.

You, dear brother, say we are born selfish. It will be shocking to many in our church to know that there are "conservatives" in the church that disagree. When discussing the matter in order to maintain their position that a baby is not selfish or evil, I have been told and heard preached from our pulpits that enmity towards Satan and sin was placed in the heart of man while Adam and Eve were still in the Garden of Eden. The first promise given to man was that God would put enmity into the heart of man.  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen. 3:15. This enmity, or hatred towards Satan and sin did not exist in Adam's heart after he sinned. And, despite what is being taught today, it does not exist in the heart of the baby when born. There is no enmity towards sin and Satan until a man is born again.

So, yes, dear Brother John, we are born selfish. It is our fallen human nature and we retain it until we are glorified. That does not mean we continue to sin until glorified. We may become partakers of God's divine nature when we make a full surrender to Christ. Then Christ lives within the human being and the mind is under His control as long as we want this to be. Then man is given the grace and power to resist temptation. Baptism teaches this. The old man is dead and a new creature is born in Christ Jesus. "It is not I, but Christ."  There is no pride in the heart when Jesus sits on the throne of the heart.

We need Jesus every moment of every day! We are never safe without Him!!

We so much appreciate the beginning of this topic starting on a solid foundation. Please continue to teach, dear friend.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

colporteur

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2010, 06:10:10 PM »
I believe that many times the view of some conservatives on this is misrepresented. Babies are born selfish. I believe that this means they are inclined to sin and since they have no power or understanding to do otherwise they will sin. At what point they are accountable only God knows. An inclination is not sin until it is exercised and then one is not held accountable unless one knoweth to do good or evil. Inclination to sin is the fallen nature but it is not sin until temptation is acted upon either in the mind or body. Even as adults the unconverted heart is the same as that of a baby accept the adult has knowledge that would hold him accountable. Other than that he like the baby does not sin until he exercises a sinful thought.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

Donna H

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 07:36:24 PM »
Great study! I've not much to say at this point, but am following with acceptance that we are selfish from birth, that this selfishness is promoted by well-meaning parents as supporting self-reliance and success in children, and that this chosen method of building children up is is just evidence of how deep and sly selfishness is in us all.

Seems to me that because music is so much felt in the body and as emotions, and can dominate over the intellect and reasoning, that we need to be especially careful, and willing just as much to let go of what we find pleasing and pleasurable in music as we are with other lusts and worldly pleasures such as a perfect pork roast or acting out of anger. Music seems to be an area where people do not feel such a need to sacrifice.

I've not heard of your 27 principles at all yet, John. I'm really looking forward to what you have to share.

Faith is the living power that presses through every barrier, overrides all obstacles, and plants its banner in the heart of the enemy’s camp. 4T 163.3

Richard Myers

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 10:03:34 PM »
Yes, Donna, parents do indeed support this sad fact. If they from the birth of their child worked to help the child form a good character, then it would be much easier for the child to accept Christ when the time comes. But, just as Friend John has stated, in many children what was given to them at birth, a fallen selfish nature is fed. 

We look forward to seeing how the principles of music reveal not only the character of Christ, but the character of the evil one. It will be an interesting study. I for one want to better understand the principles upon which Christian music is created.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2010, 03:50:34 PM »
PRINCIPLE NO. 2

“Satan has a counterfeit for every one of God’s gifts, and that includes even Christian music.”
There is music that truly is praise to God, and music that promotes false praise to a false God. It all started right after creation.

"In the beginning, God was revealed in all the works of creation. It was Christ that spread the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth. It was His hand that hung the worlds in space, and fashioned the flowers of the field. It was He that filled the earth with beauty, and the air with song. And upon all things in earth, and air, and sky, He wrote the message of the Father's love." (Desires of Ages page 20)

“The angels…united with Adam and Eve in holy strains of harmonious music, and as their songs peeled forth from blissful Eden, Satan heard the sound of their strains of joyful adoration to the Father and Son. And as Satan heard it his envy and hatred and malignity increased and he expressed his anxiety to his followers to incite them to disobedience and at once bring down the wrath of God upon them and change their songs of praise to hatred and curses to their Maker.” (Story of Redemption page 31)

“The heart in harmony with God is lifted above the annoyances and trials of this life. But a heart where the peace of Christ is not, is unhappy, full of discontent; the person sees defects in everything, and he would bring discord into the most heavenly music.” (Testimonies Volume 5 page 488) Notice the underline part in the 2nd statement. What could it mean Satan changed the music to songs of hatred and curses to their maker? What are your thoughts.

Friend John


Richard Myers

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2010, 05:43:15 AM »
What a thought!!!  Satan changed their "songs of praise to hatred and curses to their Maker.” They have no peace since they have turned from God. But for us who love God and keep His commandments, we have peace.  God keeps us content in all situations.  I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.  I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.  I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.  Philippians 4:11-13.   

The music that comes from our lips is to give glory to our God and it will, for we know of His goodness and His great Sacrifice for us. How can we not be thankful!!
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2010, 06:12:36 AM »
Thank you Richard, Donna C, and Colporteur for your respone to 27 principles. As I reread them again I felt I should respond to Colporteur"s comments.

Thanks Colporteur for your post and I respect your thoughts. Allow me to share some
reasons I believe that we are all born in sin.

Text - Romans 6:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Is there an exception for any age?

Here are examples from the book Child Guidance
An eminent divine was once asked how old a child must be before there was reasonable hope of his being a Christian. “Age has nothing to do with it,” was the answer. “Love to Jesus, trust, repose, confidence, are all qualities that agree with the child’s nature. As soon as a child can love and trust his mother, then can he love and trust Jesus as the friend of his mother. Jesus will be his friend, loved and honored.” CG P. 486 par 3

From the child’s earliest years it is to be made acquainted with the things of God. In simple words let the mother tell it about Christ’s life on earth. And more than this, let her bring into her daily life the teachings of the Savior. Let her show her child, by her own example, That this life is a preparation for the life to come, a period granted to humans beings in which they may form characters that will win for them entrance into the city of God. CG. 487

To allow a child to follow his natural impulses is to allow him to deteriorate and become proficient in evil. The results of wrong training begin to be revealed in childhood. In early youth a selfish temper is developed, and as the youth grows to manhood, he grows in sin. A continual testimony against pare rental neglect is borne by children who have been permitted to follow a course of their own choosing. Such a downward course can be prevented only by surrounding them with influences that will counteract evil. From infancy to youth and from youth to manhood, a child should be under influences for good
CG 491

May we all be ready to sing together at His soon coming. Friend John

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2010, 01:08:10 PM »
Thank you Brother Richard for your timely thoughts on principle #2 I wish to share a few more thoughts on this topic.

This tree, the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, was the only place Lucifer could go. And it was while there, in this tree, that Lucifer was reminded so vividly of what he had lost in heaven. From his perch on a limb he could see happy angelic faces, faces he had once know. He saw the smiles of Adam and Eve, and their love for each other, God and His angels. But most infuriating of all he heard their music. Perhaps it was his favorite hymn or anthem, a beautiful chorus that had once inspired him to greater adoration of God, that now drove him to deeper hatred.

The songs had not changed. It was Lucifer who had changed. In his search to become higher, he sank to the depths of sin and despair. There was no hope for him now. He had closed the door to God’s mercy; Lucifer had become Satan. And so enraged at the beautiful music that he once loved, Satan vowed to halt the happiness on this earth. His discordant words and actions had already altered the music of  heaven, Now he wanted to stop it for good.

A love for music leads the unwary to unite with world lovers in pleasure gatherings where God has forbidden his children to go. Thus that which is a great blessing when rightly used, becomes one of the most successful agencies by which Satan allures the mind from duty and from the contemplation of eternal things. PP p. 63

The fall of man filled all heaven with sorrow. The world that God had made was blighted with the curse of sin and inhabited by beings doomed to misery and death. There appeared no escape for those who had transgressed the law. Angels ceased their songs of praise. Throughout the heavenly courts there was mourning for the ruin that sin had wrought. PP p. 594

Satan did stop the music of heaven. By engineering the fall of Adam and Eve, he brought such sadness to the celestial courts that no one, not one single angel felt like even humming a tune.  If there were birds in heaven, they must have stopped singing too. Except for a few hushed whispers, the sounds of angel feet walking, or doors opening and closing, heaven was very silent indeed.

That’s when a very beautiful thing happened, an act so heroic that angels gasped in amazement. For then, in that dim, dark hour, Jesus offered to save the world.

It took the angels a while to grasp the idea.  They loved Jesus with all their hearts, and were loathe to give Him up.  They knew He would go at great risk, and offered to die themselves.  But Jesus explained to them that only He could save man.  The cost of sin was so great, and God’s law was so very holy that only Jesus Himself could die in the sinner’s place.

When all the hubbub had died down in heaven, some of the angels started to feel like singing again.  And they had a new song to sing, for they loved God more than ever before.  Though they’d always known He was loving and kind and good, they hadn’t known He would stoop this low to save His fallen creation.

A new and noble angel had been chosen in Lucifer’s place. Blessed with abundant musical talent, he assembled the heavenly harpists, singers and trumpeters for their first performance after the fall of man.  Perhaps he, or another angel, had written a special number just for this happy occasion.  As sinless angels, they could never know the depths of joy that humans would feel when pulled from the pit of sin.  But they could share in that joy.  They could sing of that joy. And so now, in tribute to the wonderful and now saving power of God, harps and trumpets and silvery voices flooded all heaven once more.

This infuriated Satan.  He had wanted to stop heaven’s music for good; all he got was an intermission.  No doubt he stormed back to his workshop to draw up his next set of plans.

colporteur

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2010, 07:27:01 PM »
Thank you Richard, Donna C, and Colporteur for your respone to 27 principles. As I reread them again I felt I should respond to Colporteur"s comments.

Thanks Colporteur for your post and I respect your thoughts. Allow me to share some
reasons I believe that we are all born in sin.

Text - Romans 6:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Is there an exception for any age?


May we all be ready to sing together at His soon coming. Friend John


Hi John;

What does it mean to be born in sin ? This does not say we are born sinning. We are born in sin because our parents are sinful. We are born with a fallen nature. We are born inot a sinful world.

Romans 6:23 does have exceptions. Holy angels have not sinned. Jesus coming as a man / God did not sin. An nunborn baby has not comitted the Biblical definition of sin" by transgressing the law" or to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not to him it is sin."  I believe Roman's 6:23 must be correctly understood. I don't know but we may be looking at this with the same understanding but from different perspectives of what it means to be fallen. A baby in the womb may be sinful if you are talking about a fallen nature but "to have sinned" like Roman 6:23 states is sin (a verb). There is a difference between an adjective and a verb when talking about this. Romans 6:23 projects forward when applied to the baby. There is no doubt that a baby in the womb will comit sin if he lives to be born. I am not denying that he has a fallen nature and needs a Savior. It seems that God projects forward even when the life is over. The thief on the cross apparently would have followed through with his repentance had he been freed from the death of the cross. The baby would have sinned as a result of his fallen nature. I am not saying that an unborn baby is holy, does not need a Savior, or has not inherited the punishment of Adam's sin but only that he is not knowingly transgressing any law and is not accountable for his fallen nature.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

Mimi

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2010, 04:52:21 PM »
I believe you and Elder Thurber have the same understanding. He is, of course, able to speak for himself. To be born "in sin" includes what you have already stated and no, a baby cannot yet consciously decide to lie, steal or break the Sabbath until later but it learns early on how to manipulate parents to get what it wants, which is typically beyond what it needs. A baby is born with inherited sinful tendencies its ancestors had weaknesses toward and is immediately in need of a Savior. So when Romans 6:23 is cited, it is correct in saying "all" have sinned and come short of the glory of God - as in referring to the entirety of the human race, babies included. Scripture typically means what it says and in this case, all is inclusive. We have existing topics on this subject shown below and in the first one you will see I had difficulty with this but ultimately took your and Elder Thurber's position:

There is a lengthy discussion on "guilty babies" in the QOD topic:

http://remnant-online.com/smf/index.php?topic=6637.msg70970#msg70970

"We have no Sin" topic discusses this, too: http://remnant-online.com/smf/index.php?topic=7520.0

Let's move forward on the music discussion.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Mimi

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2010, 06:04:28 PM »
Seems to me that because music is so much felt in the body and as emotions, and can dominate over the intellect and reasoning, that we need to be especially careful, and willing just as much to let go of what we find pleasing and pleasurable in music as we are with other lusts and worldly pleasures such as a perfect pork roast or acting out of anger. Music seems to be an area where people do not feel such a need to sacrifice.

Amen. They [the young] have a keen ear for music, and Satan knows what organs to excite to animate, engross, and charm the mind so that Christ is not desired. The spiritual longings of the soul for divine knowledge, for a growth in grace, are wanting.  {AH 407.3} 
     I was shown that the youth must take a higher stand and make the word of God the man of their counsel and their guide. Solemn responsibilities rest upon the young, which they lightly regard.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Richard Myers

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2010, 09:35:56 PM »
He (Satan) is very crafty. He is working though many to destroy the young ones.  These principles of music will help many better understand the issue.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2010, 01:27:25 PM »
Thanks Sybil, I will continue with the posts. John

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2010, 01:33:54 PM »
Principal #3: When the beat overshadows the words, or the physical side of music takes precedence over the intellectual, the music is from beneath.

The popular music of today features a strong overdose of rhythm and syncopation. The television and movie industries spend millions yes billions of dollars to lure the youth into breaking down the principals of purity and destroying their bodies sexually.

Satan is so subtle, the youth don’t even realize when they’ve crossed the line. Soon they feel depressed and lose their desire for a life with Christ, and soon find their consciences too broken to distinguish right from wrong. Sorry to say, much of this life altering influence comes through the powerful medium of music.

The lure of popular music—I feel alarmed as I witness everywhere the frivolity of young men and young women who profess to believe the truth. God does not seem to be in their thoughts. Their minds are filled with nonsense. Their conversation is only empty, vain talk. They have a keen ear for music, and Satan knows what organs to excite to animate, engross, and charm the mind so that Christ is not desired. The spiritual longings of the soul for divine knowledge, for a growth in grace, are wanting.

“Angels are hovering around yonder dwelling. The young are there assembled; there is the sound of vocal and instrumental music. Christians are gathered there, but what is that you hear? It is a song, a frivolous ditty, fit for the dance hall. Behold the pure angels gather their light closer around them, and darkness envelops those in that dwelling. The angels are moving from the scene. Sadness is upon their countenances. Behold, they are weeping. This I saw repeated a number of times all through the ranks of Sabbathkeepers, and especially in-----. Music has occupied the hours which should have been devoted to prayer. Music is the idol which many professed Sabbathkeeping Christians worship. Satan has no objection to music if he can make that a channel through which to gain access to the minds of the youth. Anything will suit his purpose that will divert the mind from God and engage the time which should be devoted to His service. He works through the means which will exert the strongest influence to hold the largest numbers in a pleasing infatuation, while they are paralyzed by his power. When turned to good account, music is a blessing; but it is often made one of Satan’s most attractive agencies to ensnare souls. When abused, it leads the unconsecrated to pride, vanity, and folly. When allowed to take the place of devotion and prayer, it is a terrible curse. Young persons assemble to sing, and, although professed Christians, frequently dishonor God and their faith by their frivolous conversation and their choice of music. Sacred music is not congenial to their taste. I was directed to the plain teachings of God’s word, which have been passed by unnoticed. In the judgment all these words of inspiration will condemn those who have not heeded them.”

This is straight forward: What are your thoughts? I will continue in a day or so.




                                          



Mimi

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2010, 01:45:18 PM »
Whew! The effects of music on the young are tremendous. They are still in growth process, physically, mentally and spiritually. As an adult woman there are still songs I recall from my years away from Christ that have an effect on me and not a good one. I have to stay away from them because they are powerful.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2010, 02:15:59 PM »
It's amazing how some adults are so cooperative with Satan's agenda to corrupt the young. I'm becoming much more aware of the music played by the children's toys and videos. Even the "talking" doll house has rock music. It's all all the children's videos, even the "Christian" ones. I am continually purging things out of the home, away from the children. Unfortunately, it's not even safe to watch the Hope Channel much of the time. So sad.

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2010, 04:03:55 PM »
Principle 3 part 2

Here are two more Quotes from the SOP.

“”A view of one such company was presented to me, where were assembled those who
profess to believe the truth. One was seated at the instrument of music, and such songs were poured forth as made the watching angels weep. There was mirth, there was coarse laughter, there was abundance of enthusiasm and a kind of inspiration; but the joy was such as Satan only is able to create. This is an enthusiasm and infatuation of which all who love God will be ashamed. It prepares the participants for unholy thought and action.”
(Adventist Home page 514)


Worship With a Bedlam of Noise
Mrs. S.N. Haskell wrote Ellen White about a camp meeting in Muncie ,Indiana, concerned about whether those things she had seen were indeed blessed by God. Here is Ellen White’s answer to her letter.

“The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit’s working.”
(Selected Messages Volume 2 page 36

There is no doubt about it. We are living in the time just before Jesus comes. We see the same things happening now, Shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. Rock beat, the whole nine yards. Are we praying for our children, talking to our children, being the right example to them? Soon and very soon we are going to see the King.
What do you think?

Mimi

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2010, 04:11:28 PM »
There is the well-known prophecy we have seen fulfilled. Until revival and reformation occurs, I do believe we should have our children and ourselves outside the sanctuary while such music is being conducted. And if, through the influence of such music, it is evident the Holy Spirit is no where to be found in that building, it is time to ask God to lead us to another sanctuary. 
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89