Study => Bread of Life => Topic started by: Elder John Thurber on February 13, 2000, 03:52:00 AM
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Elder John Thurber on February 13, 2000, 03:52:00 AM
I am pleased to be invited to join you all, pardon the southern drawl. I have already been blessed to read your posts. May God bless us together. My topic is one that is of concern when I read that E.G. White was just the lesser light. As if to say not as important to the church. What are your thoughts on this. I have a dear friend, Elder George Brown, former President of the South Central Division, and He too retired here in Avon Park. I asked him what his thoughts were on this subject, and I would like to share them with you.
The term "lesser light" was first used by EGW as a firm counsel against the erroneous belief among some early SDA's that the writings of the Spirit of Prophecy were to be given the same authority as the Bible in matters of faith and doctrinal standards. They viewed the Spirit of Prophecy as a second Bible. To combat this falacy EGW coined the term "lesser light". In doing so she eloquently defended the Protestant thesis of "Sola Scriptura." She insisted that the "Bible and the Bible alone is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested." (GC,introduction,p.V11). She further emphasized that the "Scriptures are the one and only authentic standard for faith and doctrine." The role of the so called "lesser light", EGW counseled was to defend, illuminate and elucidate the Holy Bible, and not to be a substitute for it or to be used in competition with it. As the "lesser light", the Spirit of Prophecy is a sure and reliable guide in which the believer can fully trust, because it is in perfect harmony with all the teachings of the Bible. The term "lesser light" does not denote an inferior status. The fact is that there is no inferior or superior divine inspiration. All God-breathed inspiration are equal, whether given to Bible writers or to EGW. The writings of both the the Holy Scriptures and ot Ellen White are equally inspired. The distinction between the "lesser light" and by implication the "greater light", has nothing to do with inspiration, but rather with canonicity. EGW labeled her writings as the "lesser light," not because they are less inspired than those of the Holy Scriptures; but because they are not part of the canonical books of the Bible. In the context of her appeal to the early believers to regard the Bible and the Bible alone as the "standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested" she is dramatizing the canonisity of Scripture. It is canonicity together with inspiration that makes the Bible the one and only standard of faith and doctrine. The messages of the Spirit of Prophecy are therefore divinely inspired to remind the church that the Bible and the Bible alone is God's supreme standard of faith and doctrine.
Please send your thoughts as we near the end of time I think it is good to be able to answer those who down play the lesser Light. May God bless all of you. John
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Laurie Mosher on February 13, 2000, 05:39:00 PM
Dear Brother John, Thank you for this very important subject. On the adventist.online, of course, this subject came up frequently...and just as frequently, those of us who endeavored to "defend" ended up being "bombarded" by the liberals. The subject is still ongoing...and "almost" futile . Some of us were getting stressed out becaue it was so obvious to us that EGW was NOT inspired in degrees, no more than Paul or any of the other Bible writers were.
In fact, I was told by "Ole Abe" that EGW was no more inspired than Martin Luther , John Calvin, John Knox, Billy Graham, etc.
Ole Abe is my neighbor and the "Head Elder" in the church which I attend, so you can appreciate the friction we have.
Anyhow, I appreciate your thoughts and the thoughts and beliefs of those on this forum. Fortunately, all of us have the belief that each of us will be edified and our Lord glorified as we study, and pray together.
May God bless you as you do service for Him.
Keep "the" Faith, Br. Laurie :)
[This message has been edited by Laurie Mosher (edited 07-12-2000).]
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on February 14, 2000, 08:28:00 AM
Amen, Brother John! This is my understanding as to the correct principles involved. It has always seemed to me that we should point all to the Bible as the rule of our faith. It makes life simple. When prophets come along, and they will, they do not supplant the high holy position of the Bible, but rather are to be judged by it. We, of all people need to teach this actively.
Having established this as my rule of faith and teaching, I can share that the Spirit of Prophecy is inspired and points all to the Bible and Jesus as its author and our Saviour. If we had no need of a prophet, and even more than a prophet, then the Lord would not have sent one. We are blessed among all peoples to have the Spirit of Prophecy. Here is just one example out of thousands that make the blessing stand out clearly. Through the Spirit of the living God, we were told over a hundred years ago that meat was no longer safe to eat and that soon no animal food would be safe to eat. We will not find the date published in the Bible as to when this would occur, but God saw fit to tell us through Ellen White.
What does this mean? It means that many, many young children will not get cancer because their parents believed God and were thankful for the light that came. There are multitudes in the world that will be thankful also, unlike multitudes in the church that are not only unthankful, but disobedient and gainsaying. Let us look beyond the objections and do the work that the Lord has set before us. Share with those that are open to the truth meeting them where they are, remembering always that the revelation of God's love will open the door to a closed heart in many cases. Thank you, Brother John for sharing such an important principle. Again, welcome to the forum.
(Inserted 8/20/24)
More than a prophet, Ellen White was a messenger as was John the Baptist who prepared the way for the first coming of Jesus. Sister White was a messenger to prepare the way for the second coming of Jesus. Not long ago I preached a fact that if you accept this truth, then God sent Elijah in our day. I had never heard anyone say this until a few days ago when I listened to what I am going to post now. It will be a great resource as you desire others to understand what we do, that God has sent into the world in our day one who was more than a prophet. It is my desire that a multitude will experience the joy that I do every time I read the light given to us. The light is ever shining brighter and brighter until the daystar come. "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the daystar arise in your hearts: knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on March 03, 2000, 03:11:00 AM
"The Lord has sent his people much instruction, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, and there a little. Little heed is given to the Bible, and the Lord has given a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light. O, how much good would be accomplished if the books containing this light were read with a determination to carry out the principles they contain! There would be a thousandfold greater vigilance, a thousandfold more self-denial and resolute effort. And many more would now be rejoicing in the light of present truth."
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on March 03, 2000, 03:49:00 AM
This is a good place to throw in another plug and again suggest the creation of another section called, The SOP Forum or whatever name that may be more appropriate.
:)
------------------ In His Mercy & Grace,
Daryl.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Gary K on March 10, 2000, 07:05:00 AM
Hi All,
To me this "lesser light" is something that brings the Bible into a position of greater interest.
What I mean by this is, my reading of the SOP as a kid was for the history provided in the Conflict of the Ages Series. I went back to read these books in the middle of active drug addiction while disabled and unable to work. I found there a God who loved me, personally. This discovery brought about a desire to read the Bible and learn what it said and the principles found there.
To me this is the purpose of the SOP, to increase our love of the Bible and to help with our understanding of the overall principles found it.
Where EGW said that she wouldn't have been needed if we really had been students of the Bible is really true. When I got out my concordance and started to study the origins of where some of the words come from and how they were originally used whole new worlds of understanding have opened to my eyes. Many of the distortions in such vogue today become so plainly wrong it is amazing. If we would only prayerfully study in depth the winds of doctrine blowing through our church would just disappear.
Your brother in Christ, Gary K
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on March 10, 2000, 10:05:00 AM
The depth of the Bible is so deep we can never fully comprehend it. We suffer greatly by not studying it more faithfully. While the Spirit of Prophecy helps us to understand what is in the Bible, I see it in another sense also. Tell me, Brother Gary, if you can agree with this. There is information imparted to the church through the Spirit of Prophecy that is not found in the Bible.
This is a wonderful subject to study since God expects us to know more of this great blessing He has given to His people.
In His love and grace, Richard
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Gary K on March 10, 2000, 10:46:00 AM
Hi Richard,
There is specific information found in the SOP not found in the Bible, but all the principles behind those specifics are clearly given in the Bible. I just think that what she meant by what she said was that the Holy Spirit would have led us to the same conclusions that she gave us as to the specifics if we had truly loved the Bible and studied it the way God has meant for us to. We are given the promise that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth, and I just take that literally.
I didn't mean anything against the SOP. If you have read my posts over the last few months you would know that. I strongly believe in the SOP and clearly believe it has a place in our lives.
Your brother in Christ, Gary K
Just a short PS here. In upholding the truth on the SDA forum I have just come to the realization that if for no other reason than to alleviate the suspicions and fears of those who do not believe her I have to use the Bible to prove her points. I had gotten lazy that way. I have so much trust in her myself that I will just take her word for it, because I have never found anything in which she does disagree with the principles of the Bible. Being pushed into a really deep study of the Bible only strengthens my belif in her.
[This message has been edited by Gary K (edited 03-10-2000).]
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Elder John Thurber on March 10, 2000, 01:10:00 PM
Great threads Riichard & Gary I love personal testimonies of the blessings of the SOP. May we grow in this gift together. God's blessings on this family as we enter the new Sabath. John
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Rungi on March 10, 2000, 10:04:00 PM
"To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn"--NIV (Isaiah 8:20)
If books written by a lady that had very limited knowledge can lead thousands to Christ Jesus, surely her writings are more than ordinary. I have never seen a point where the Spirit of Prophecy (SOP) fails to point the reader to the 'Bible and Bible only'. Though there are certain things that are not found in the scriptures, the principals are based entirely on the scriptures. [Gray said the same thing and I praise God for that]
By saying that her works are to be regarded as the 'lesser light', she has made it clear that her writings were never a 'new light' but only what is already there in the scriptures, but in a different style. She was called at a time when Satan had nearly covered and stained the Greater Light with errors and misguided interpretations. If the world had not lost all the truths and if humans had been serious students of the scriptures all along, there would never have been the need to have any 'lesser light'.
However, when introducing new people or non-adventists to Christ Jesus, let us base ourselves on the Scriptures alone first for they 'are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be PERFECT [emphasis added], throughly furnished unto all good works.' (2 Tim. 3:16,17). We can have SOP at the back of our minds, helping us with the interpretation of the scriptures, let us always put forward first the Bible. Let us base our personal studies on the Bible and use the SOP as an aid and not vice versa. I believe firmly, God will not be disappointed. I myself got converted reading 'Messages to Young People'. I have never quoted any passages from there when sharing but most of the things I have said are paraphrases of what is found there and in the rest of the SOP. I believe Sister White won't mind because they are God's inspired ideas and not her own.
May God guide us.
Rungi.
------------------ PTL!!!105
[This message has been edited by Rungi (edited 03-10-2000).]
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Laurie Mosher on March 11, 2000, 05:03:00 PM
Amen to all of the above posts. Isn't it strange how all of us became converted by reading different books by EGW ?. For me, it was The Great Controversy. When I began to see that history was PROPHECY FULFILLED, I decided to take a closer look at what the Holy Scriptures had to say. and it wasn't until I was enrolled as a Theology student in one of "our" colleges, and the professor looked at me and said, "Laurie if you were the only person on planet earth, Jesus would have died for YOU." That 'blew my mind', and I realized that only a God of such love could die for a sinner, and isn't that what the Bible says? Romans 5:8 "But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were YET SINNERS, Christ died for us."
With a love like that, I (we) would be fools not to want to "fall in love" with such a loving God!
Br. & Sr. ,keep "the"faith! Br. Laurie
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Dugald T Lewis MD on March 11, 2000, 06:29:00 PM
I love this thread. You guys know how much I treasure the writings of the SOP. I almost sounded like a broked record on the compuserve forum and the online forum regarding my firm belief in the SOP.
Well, my father became a SDA after reading the book "Great Controversy".
I grew up reading as much of the SOP as I could. I made my decision to be a physician mainly through the writings of Sister White.
Two and a half years ago, I had the opportunity to begin extensive investigation on the medical ministry and had to get back to basics. I recognized that the medical ministry of our church was started by none other than Sister White.(not Dr Kellogg). Her writings spoke only of the love of Jesus and the elevation of Jesus as the Great Physician.
I have never read any other author who can stimulate my mind as much as sis White. I feel that when I have read her, I have read God's word to me. Many times, I would pick up any of her books and turn to a page that holds something appropriate for my circumstance. She has never failed to place emphasis and quotes extensively from the Bible. I view her work as an extension of the Bible and thank God for her writings.
I feel so sad when I see SDA's rejecting her writings. I know its only their loss as this christian journey demands every bit of encouragement we can find and there is no better place to turn to.
My friends, I have been blessed by this forum. Eventually, we will be known as the forum where all the EGW "nuts" hang out. I don't care what we are called, I know that this forum had to be established and i thank God for the foresight and insight given to Bro Richard for getting this into action.
Sincerly
Dugald
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on March 12, 2000, 03:01:00 AM
I also was encouraged especially by "The Great Controversy" and "The Desire of Ages."
------------------ In His Love, Mercy & Grace,
Daryl.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Elder John Thurber on March 12, 2000, 03:32:00 AM
Thank you Dr. Lewis for your thoughts on the inspiration of the SOP. I believe the same Spirit that gave instrution to all the Bible writers is the same Spirit of God that gave us the SOP. Her writings are on the same par as scripture. It is called lesser light because it is given for the remnant church. I think it is rejected by many SDA's because it crosses to many social paths that the world offers. My mother gave me MYP to read when I was a teenager, (A book that many say shold never have been published) some feel that it turns off many young people and turns them away from the church. I remember being not happy with many things she wrote in the book, because I was wanting much of the world in those days, but I never doubted it was truth. In later days I could see more clearly how true the messages were important to me. I do believe we need to read some of her counsil with our youth to help them see the love and reason behind certain statements to the youth. I think every parent should read the book first to understand what God is telling us. The timeing is important. Not to be used as a club over their heads. John
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Ivan on March 12, 2000, 07:24:00 AM
I was raised in an Adventist home. In my teenage years, due to my desire to be accepted, I experimented in the pleasures of sin. I left the church in search of the excitement these things promised. It was not many years before these things proved to be the empty and meaningless lies that they are.
God rescued me from the depression and gross darkness I had entered. He spoke to my heart and led me to a book which quoted heavily from EGW. Hope sprang up in my heart as light began to dawn on my soul.
The next book I was led to was The Great Controversy. I could not put it down as I was deeply impressed by the faithfulness unto death of the martyers and the fulfilling prophecies of our day.
The Desire of Ages came next. A more graphic a real presentation of Christ, I had never heard.
These things awakened a desire to know more. I began to study the Bible, and as others saw my new love for study, they were very supportive. One dear sister gave me a Strong's concordance. As I began to compare text with text and original language with current interpretation, I became engrossed in God's Word, which became brighter and brighter as I studied.
I had made the transition from the blackness of midnight to the blazing glory of noonday ---but it all began with the lesser light of dawn as seen through the writings of EGW.
But just as there is always more light to be seen in the study of Scripture, there is always fresh insight in the study of EGW's writings.
When witnessing, I use the Bible as my reference, but in interpretation I may sometimes use her words (without reference) simply because they convey the meaning better than my own. I think she would have approved.
------------------ Ivan :)
Thank God for Jesus! (Romans 7:24,25)
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: gorazd on March 12, 2000, 07:28:00 AM
Hi everybody.
It seems that what Dr. Lewis pointed out, that this forum will become known as the one where the EGW »nuts« hang out, is realy true. It was a pleasure to read all of your posts about the influence of EGW writings in your lives.
Her books were and are a big blessing to my spiritual life too and I agree with Dr. Lewis that christians who do not accept them are missing very much - I can imagine how much more difficult would it be to discern some spiritual things and arrive to information about so many things as I did through studying her books, if I would not do it. I am not saying that Bible is not anough, but the help of EGW books is realy of big value, especialy in these days that we live - God knew very well what He was doing when arousing her spirit to write.
I was greatly suprised when I found out how in American churches people misregard her work. I guess this is also much due to wrong use of her books when raising children, with holding them »as a club over their heads«, what satan then makes use of and confuses these people as they grow up and see that God does not work that way, as a tyrant. And then they throw away the baby with the water.
Praise God for the messenger that He has sent for our times.
May the Father in His mercy bless us,
gorazd.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: gorazd on March 12, 2000, 07:37:00 AM
Hi Ivan, I haven't seen your post because I wrote off-line.
I praise the Lord for what you have written in your post!
"... the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall, But those who wait on the Lord shall renew their strength; They shall mount up with wings like eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isa 40.30,31
Your brother and friend, Gorazd.
[This message has been edited by gorazd (edited 03-12-2000).]
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: charlene on March 12, 2000, 09:42:00 AM
I love to be among those that love the Spirit of Prophecy the way I love each word that I read. In regard to children or even adults "being hit over the head with her quotes." I would like to stress the fact that none of us want to hear anything that might condemn us, or point out where we are wrong. Sister White's words are the practical application in our every day lives, of the truth of the Bible. The Bible is full of principles and standards, promises and requirements for the fulfillment of these promises. A lot is given in absolutes, generalities, symbols, parables, poetry and prophecy. All is the teaching of our god, through the same Spirit. Ellen White gets to the specifics.
I guess my point is this.... When our 'sins' are pointed out by any source, we don't like it. As a child, we lack maturity to understand the love behind correction and guidance. Whatever source we use to point out the error, will not be looked at as a good place to go. We use Ellen White because she states it so simply, so the "wounded" one strikes out against the messenger because they don't like the message. Her works get a bum rap because of the immaturity and lack of understanding of the growing child/adult, no matter how lovingly they are used; it may still look like a hammer in the immature eyes.
One of the greatest challenges of the parent is to bring to adulthood a secure, responsible, independent, law-abiding citizen of this world, while keeping their motives pure and totally dependent and completely submitted to our God for the future citizenship of Heaven. "In favor with God and man." WOW! Can it be done? Ellen White one of the greatest inspired sources for the family.
In His Love
------------------ charlene
[This message has been edited by charlene (edited 03-12-2000).]
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Gary K on March 12, 2000, 01:02:00 PM
Hi All,
The being hit over the head with the SOP is something that is real.
I had it done to me. It was not so much that my sins were pointed out to me, it was the manner in which it was done.
Along with EGW's counsel about sin, is counsel about how to reach the sinner and if only the first part of her counsel is used bad things result. The counsel then given becomes a personal attack rather than loving counsel on how to avoid the destructive things in life. The Bible is often used the same way.
Your brother in Christ, Gary K
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Clive Nevell on March 12, 2000, 05:13:00 PM
I do NOT want to give the impression that EGW was a saint, speaking from the heart where would we be today without her. Many of our education instutions would not be there. Read the Australian years by her grandson and see the influence that EGW had on the church in Australia. Many of the pioneers were helped by her. The lesser light leading to the greater light, the Bible and Jesus Christ. That is always the theme of her books, not to glorify self but to up hold our Saviour. My favorite book is Steps to Christ, read it when you are feeling low, when the world seems against you, when there is friction in the church or home, never once have I failed to find the answer to lifes problems. What about the promises? Let me share a few. My favorite edition is "Finding Peace Within" I carry it with me in the car and brief case, it has questions and answers in the back of our doctrines, my quotes and page numbers will be from it.
p.55 "Consentrate yourself to God in the morning; make this your very first work. Let your prayer be, Take me, O Lord, as whooly Thine. I lay all my plans at Thy feet. Use metoday in thy service. Abide with me, and let all my work be wrought in thee. This is a daily matter. Each morning consentrate yourself to God for that ady. Surrender all your plans to Him, to be carried out or given up as His providence shall indicate."
If only we would do that every morning , what a difference to the day it would be.
p.50 "If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ's character stands in the place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had never sinned."
There is much more I could share from her books with you.
Isn't that good news, it does not matter how sinful a person is if only they will accept Christ as their saviour.
Regards Clive
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Vic Hays on March 12, 2000, 07:25:00 PM
I studied the Bible with the book Patriarcs and Prophets. For the first time in my life the Bible made sense to me. Twenty years later I still use SOP for reference to help me solve Bible problems. She never lead me down a dead end as some other Bible writers have.
Vic Hays
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on March 13, 2000, 01:59:00 PM
Brother Vic, welcome to the fellowship! :)
You make an excellent point and one that needs to be recognized. Seventh-day Adventists read many different books looking for "truth". Many times they are led down the wrong path. Such a shame. One of the great blessings that has come to me has been the endless pages of truth thoroughly winnowed of chaff. Why would I want to contaminate my mind with chaff? I don't think many recognize what a blessing we have in this respect. I am not yet finished reading all that we have, so I have little time to read that which is not pure.
Having expressed this, I want to say there is need to publish books, but it surely should have the purpose of doing so for those not of our faith who have not the confidence in the Spirit of Prophecy. (I guess there are some in the church also, as I think about it).
------------------ In His love and grace, Richard
[This message has been edited by Richard Myers (edited 03-13-2000).]
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: eugene on March 13, 2000, 11:26:00 PM
I took a 3 weeks trip to the phillippines a few months ago, and while there, I found that there are SDA preachers telling the people that EW writing were not inspired, and my wife's broghter had a heated debate with me over this. He dose not accept EW, and I was deeply hurt to hear him say this. Most of this is coming in from the land down under !
So the point is this, its not just here in america, but its every where you go in the world. You will find gurops of belivers here and there who do not accept EW.
I personlly do accept her. When I was a child, I knew a old woman who knew EW, and had a copy of her first "Early Writing" book, and gave it to me to read. What I read, set my feet on the path of life at a tender ages of 7 years old. A path from which I have never turned from since. It was after this, that God sent one of His angels to talk with me, and to tell what I needed to hear, words that I would never forget, as long as I live.
It is the rememce of what I was told, that has helped me bear the sorrow of life in my darkest hours...
Jesus is coming back thur the Golden Gate... He was lifted up from the earth... We must take up the cross and fellow Him, before we can recieve the crown of life. First the cross, then the crown...
I learned this lesson, this truth, under the stars. The heavens do declare the glory of God. And it was in these nights visited that the words of EW were reafirmed in their turthfulness...
But for those who do not understand what I am talking about, it is hard to explaine briefly how the stars do reafrim the turthfullness of EW writings.
God has a thousands ways of treaching us what we need to know. He knows us very well, and knows we what need to hear, to help us to remainful to Him no matter what happens in life.
EW a lesser light? I would say, her writing is not a lessor light, but a powerful light, shedding bright beams of light on to the Word that has been hand down to us thur the ages. God has been pleased to shed a clearer light, to unfold the Words of the Bible, thur the writing of a humble woman, rather than a man ! It was thur her, that He revealed more clearly the plan of salvation. It was thur her writing, that He revealed more clearly how sin began. The Bible dose not always tell. But in these last days God has chosen to lay it out on the line, like launder on the clothsline to air out. We see it and hear it. And its up to us to take it or leave it.
Many did the same thing to Paul in his day also. So the debate contines onwards even today... and will contine, till we see the heavens open, and we hear the voice of God declare the day and hour of His coming, and we see agaist the starry host, the hands open the tables of the law...
[This message has been edited by eugene (edited 03-14-2000).]
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Elder John Thurber on March 14, 2000, 04:04:00 AM
All of the thoughts on this thread have been a blessing to me. I went to my Doctor yesterday for I have heart problems, and he is going to test me today, and his next words to me were thrilling as he told me not to drink any coffee befor the test. I thanked God for flashing in my mind was her council to us about coffee years ago, and now most Doctors agree it is harmful to the body. Just a simple example of what God has given us through the inspired writings. We are blessed. John
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: charlene on March 14, 2000, 04:08:00 AM
Eugene, If I start the topic of "God in Astronomy" in the 'God in Nature' thread, Would you please continue giving us lessons from the stars?????PLease???? :) In His Love charlene
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: M.A. Crawford on March 14, 2000, 09:44:00 AM
For me, the writings of Ellen G. White have always been a source of spiritual comfort and inspiration, but fierce opposition to her works is nothing new. During the latter part of the 19th century, three men---Dr. J.H. Kellogg, D.M. Canwright, and A.F. Ballenger (to name a few)---began to teach that which was at variance with standard Adventist beliefs and doctrines.
Elders Cainwright and Ballenger were very famous and influential Adventist ministers who had large followings. Dr. Kellogg was a famous physician who had powerful friends and headed up a very powerful institution known as the Battle Creek Sanitarium, which stretched for nearly a fifth of a mile, and (because of the church's emphasis on the health work) was the strongest force in the church at that time. All three opposed Mrs. White on every hand leading to, and ushering in, what became known as the Alpha Apostasy. "The alpha disclosed a paradox of men claiming to have discovered a truth far superior to historic Adventism while at the same time creating chaos wherever their ideas were voiced. Churches were split by this heresy...(for a more detailed account of the alpha apostasy, see the book Omega II: God's Church At The Brink by Lewis R. Walton)."
The "foundational pillars" of this church are once again under attack by men and women who seek to undermine the faith of all who believe in accepting the Bible as it reads and the writings of Ellen G. White.
I will have more to say on this important topic later.
M.A.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: tami strand on March 14, 2000, 11:16:00 AM
Dear Br. John, I will keep you in my prayers, God bless you and strengthen you. Eugene, I agree with you that God withholds nothing necessary for our salvation, "Surely the Lord God will do nothing but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." Amos 3:7
Jesus says in Luke 7:28,33-35 "For I say unto you , Among those that are born of woman there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom is greater than he.... For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say He hath a devil. The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! But wisdom is justified of all her children."
Johns counsel was rejected by many, as was the Lord himself,and today our modern prophet. It is sorrowful, that God's people will be destroyed for their rejection of knowledge. Hosea 4:6
Blessings, Tami
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on March 14, 2000, 02:19:00 PM
M.A., welcome to the fellowship! :) I appreciate your remarks and that you included the Bible, as it reads as being under attack. Many that are rejecting truth would have us believe that the Bible does not mean what it says.
I have enjoyed your posts on the Compuserve forum over the years.
Good to have you with us. :)
------------------ In His love and grace, Richard
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: eugene on March 14, 2000, 08:42:00 PM
Yes Charlene, I will give you my surport if you want to discuss the subject of Astronomy and nature.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: M.A. Crawford on March 26, 2000, 02:09:00 PM
Mrs. White referred to her writings as "the lesser light" which, if conscientiously followed, would lead us to a better understanding of "the Greater Light:" the Word of God. Although some have accused her of so doing, I have never read in her works where she tried to equate them with the Scriptures. What I have read was her attempt to exalt the Bible and Jesus Christ as the only means of soul salvation; and her works in this regard served in a complementary capacity rather than one of equality.
The writings of Ellen G. White are not inferior to the Bible. As God's prophet for His Remnant Church, her works assist us in understanding certain Bible doctrines we would not be able to otherwise.
M.A.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Kevin Hellerud on March 26, 2000, 06:39:00 PM
In the Old Testament, all the prophets would appeal to the revelation of God at Sinai as the basis for their authority. The New Testament appealed to the Old Testament for the basis for it's authority. They all claimed to be lessor lights pointing to the greater light of the inspired writers who cam be for them. This is a test of a true prophet.
Most prophets point to themselves, or some miricals as their basis for authroity. They can change the Bible as they wish.
A true prophet appeasls to the prophet's before them, and ultametly to the revelation at Sinai as their basis, and they they are only lesser lights.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on June 28, 2000, 09:33:00 AM
I like that, Brother Kevin. The Apostle Paul did not see his writings as a part of the Bible.
One of the great blessings in life for me is to read the Desire of Ages in the morning for my personal devotions. It is the most beautiful revelation of the life of Jesus I have found. Yes, I know the gospels cover the same material. I study them, but I love to read the Desire of Ages. :)
In His love and grace, Richard
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Laurie Mosher on July 12, 2000, 06:05:00 AM
I believe Bro. Kevin hit the nail on the head. The Holy Spirit inspired all the prophets (Bible and EGW) to PROMOTE Jesus Christ. In this sense, all the writings of the prophets are "LESSER LIGHTS'.And obviously Jesus is the 'GREATER LIGHT" (Malachi 4:2 SUn of Righteousness) John 1:8 Jesus IS THE TRUE LIFE. John 8:12 Jesus said "I AM THE LIGHT of the world." John 12:46; 2 Cor.4:4
Keep "the" faith! Bro. Laurie
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Allan F on July 13, 2000, 11:08:00 AM
"Believe in the Lord your god, so shall ye be established; believe His prophets, so shall ye prosper" (2 Chronicles 20:20).
When I for the first time read through the "Conflict of the Ages series" (it took me almost a year), beginning with the fall of Lucifer and the creation of the earth, and ending with our days, the second coming and the new earth, it really opened my eyes. To follow God, his plans and his people continually through the history, became a rich blessing to me. It was so inspiring to have a look into the lifes of Gods faithful people through the history. When coming up to our days, I felt almost like participating in a relay. When reading about the prophets, apostles, martyrs, waldensians, reformators etc., the main message I got was: "Come on! Now it is your turn!". I have found much strength and comfort in her writings. And I want to praise God for this.
Allan F
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Elder John Thurber on July 13, 2000, 05:02:00 PM
Amen Allen - What a joy to have the Conflict of the Ages series, as well as much more. Elder Richards Sr. read the conflict series every year. I too love to read them and spend time praying while I thank God for the gift. Friend John
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: M.A. Crawford on July 14, 2000, 04:35:00 PM
Elder Thurber, speaking of Elder Richards. Sr.,I saw a photo of him once that had a profound effect on me. In it he was walking along, but he had a book in his hand he was reading even as he was walking. What I gleaned from this was as often as possible, we Seventh-day Adventists who are trying to be saved need to have the Bible and writings of Ellen G. White before us every opportunity we have to do so.
We need to be STRONG in the Word because I am convinced this is how we build a SOLID FOUNDATION that will be unmoveable during the days of serious trial that are soon to come upon us.
The Bible and spirit of prophecy need to be our "spiritual blinders," just as they were with Elder Richards, that keep us looking straight ahead and focused on Christ. If we were to keep our gaze focused upon Jesus and the Word of God as we should, we would not become as irritated and agitated by the vicissitudes of this life that the enemy uses to weaken our spiritual defenses and defeat us.
M.A.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: John Blake on September 24, 2000, 09:13:00 PM
It was a joy to read such positive, uplifting and well thought-out comments on this 'thread'. I would like to add that at the moment I am [still] reading Dr. Herbert Douglass new book on Ellen White, "Messenger of the Lord". It is one of the most inspiring and faith building books I have ever read in the SDA church!!! If you want your faith grounded in the role of Ellen White and God's direct leading of the SDA church, with thousands of reasons backed up from science and history and the Themes of the Great Controversy, then get this book. It helps build faith! It is costly in Canada, well over $40. and it is big, edging close to 600 pages. It is worth every penny of it!
BUT, you will find evidences and support that you can use for years to come -- with solid facts that have born the test of time.
Something I found today. Remember reading about the famous Cornell University Professor (taught there 37 years), Dr. Clive McKay, and his three articles in the 1959 Review upholding Ellen White's views on health? In a footnote in Douglass book, today I came across a quote from a 1958 letter he wrote to the graduate student of his, Hen Chen-Chung, who had introduced him to the writings of Ellen White. This is what he said (quoted from the footnote # 186 p.m 341) "If I were to start life again I would like to be an Adventist. I believe their philosophy has the best solution of the problems of living amidst the strains of the American culture. I have only make a slight beginning of discovering the wisdom of Ellen White." Remember that we are told that one of the last great deceptions, and I believe it will be in the SDA church, is to make the SOP of "NONE EFFECT". What is often happening now is that people say they believe that she was a prophet, that God did give her visions and dreams, and yes her writings 'contain' the word of God, but that they ALSO contain her own opinions and things now quite out of date and some 'mistakes', so really we need to now mostly study the Bible. They then de-emphasize the SOP and say we have to sort her errors and private opinions out -- and so where does that leave us? The United Church went that route years ago about the Bible -- not that it WAS the "Word of God", but that it 'contained' the Word of God, and you and the experts sort out the truth from the myth. When SDA's start doing this either with the Bible or the SOP, then we are on the route to making the SOP 'of none effect'! May God bless your deep study using the SOP to help you exalt the Bible, just as she did!
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: L.Picard on February 25, 2001, 09:31:00 PM
If I may jump in, :) I believe that as John the Baptist was "a lesser light which was to be followed by a greater" (D.A.220) Ellen White was "a lesser light which is to be followed by a greater." As John the Baptist was "the Elijah that was to come" so Ellen White was "the individual which was to come in the spirit and power of Elijah." 1 SM 412. In her writings Sister White speaks of Elijah the individual and Elijah the people. The Elijah the people are preceded by the Elijah the individual. Could it be that those who will be filled with the Holy Spirit during the latter rain and loud cry will be the Elijah the people, the greater light? The light that will shine through them will lighten the earth with the glory of God. Rev.18:1. The earth will be filled with the knowledge of God and of Christ. It is said that "The world will be CAPTIVATED by the glory of an abiding Christ." C.O.L. 419. Will that not be the greater light?
John the Baptist's ministry was followed by Christ Himself and later by Christ in the person of His disciples at Pentecost with a fullness never experienced before! Did they not, like Christ, become the greater light? "During the patriarchal age the influence of the Holy Spirit had often been revealed in a marked manner, but NEVER IN ITS FULLNESS... But at Pentecost, "The Spirit came upon the waiting, praying disciples with a FULLNESS that reached every heart." A.A.37,38. (This statement would also explain why John said that "the Spirit had not been given because that Jesus was not yet glorified" in John 7:38. (The Spirit had not been given in its fullness until Jesus's coronation in Heaven).
P/S In 1 SM p.412 there you can read how Sister White, in a very unassuming manner, implies that she was the Elijah that was to come!
Those who rejected the teachings of John the Baptist could not benefit from the teachings of Christ. Those who neglect or reject the Testimonies will not be able to benefit from the latter rain message!
[This message has been edited by L.Picard (edited 02-25-2001).]
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on May 28, 2003, 08:17:00 PM
She surely has brought to the world the Elijah message. Only those who cannot discern the moving of the Holy Spirit would deny her inspiration.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Ralph Myers on May 29, 2003, 07:09:00 PM
Is there not going to be any new prophet after Ellen White?
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on May 29, 2003, 08:26:00 PM
Many will prophesy and many will have dreams, but I would be surprised if any would come in the power and Spirit of Elijah as did Ellen White. It would indeed be a blessing, but the light is so bright and the days remaining so few, that I rejoice to have the light and sorrow because of it's rejection. It seems that if we would walk in the light we have, Jesus would be here in a moment.
What are your thoughts, Brother Ralph?
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Dugald T Lewis MD on May 31, 2003, 12:14:00 PM
Ralph has raised a point that lingers in the mind of some SDA's.
My thinking is that as a church organization, we have openly rejected the visions that she received on health. This leaves questions in my mind regarding the need for another prophet. He or she will also be rejected because of the overwhelming influences of those who are motivated by greed, money,and deception. Those influences have sadly inflitated our church organization.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on June 01, 2003, 08:14:00 AM
While God sent a prophet with great light to point to the Bible, when this light is rejected, why would God send even greater light? It seems to me that what is needed is not greater light, but a message that will awaken a sleeping church. I think we have that message and it needs to be heard coming from the lips of consecrated Christians.
The message is applicable to all Christian churches. Where are the Christians with the discernment to understand and give the message? The "Lesser Light" pointed to the message given by Christ in the "Greater Light." It can be found in the third chapter of the Book of Revelation.
There is no need of a prophet to come in the power and Spirit of Elijah to tell us the message and to tell us it is present truth. Just a consecrated Christian that has the love of Jesus in the heart and who will follow the Holy Spirit's leading. Let us hear this message coming forth from hundreds and thousands.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on June 05, 2003, 09:58:00 AM
Speaking on the subject of not walking in the light that God has sent to His people, we have a new forum "Laodicea". The subject is that of the message found in Revelation 3:15-22. It describes the condition of God's church today and the promise of revival for those who will avail themselves of the counsel given in those verses.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Suzanne on June 24, 2003, 09:53:00 AM
The book: Messenger of the Lord, by Herbert E. Douglass, should be required reading by every SDA. I read it several years ago and was totally engrossed. It covers most everything about our prophet, in a way that is both interesting and informative. Don't let the almost 600 pages turn you off. I read 10-plus pages each day until I finished it.
~Suzanne~
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Sister Marie on June 24, 2003, 01:35:00 PM
How can I buy this book? I would like to send it to my son. However, being that he is so busy the book may be too large to interest him, I don't know. What is the U.S information on it?
------------------ With Christian Love, Sister Marie
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: byron s on June 25, 2003, 06:06:00 AM
The book can be purchased or read online on the E.G. White Estates web site. The Adventist Book Center also carries it.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Mark Anthony on August 13, 2003, 02:03:00 PM
I am enjoying this forum
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Sister Marie on August 14, 2003, 12:05:00 AM
I have read almost all of the 6 large books on her life (Commentary size) so I have a feeling I am getting the same thing there. They too are very interesting and hard to put down. :)
------------------ With Christian Love, Sister Marie
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on August 14, 2003, 08:12:00 AM
We are happy to have you with us, Brother Mark. As you can see the topics are not spread out in every direction, but those that we hope are "present truth". If you want to discuss a topic that is not already here, suggest it to Brother Crawford and he can open it for us. We have done this to keep things in some kind of order. :) The topics and their posts in this forum do not get deleted.
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: rb1844 on August 21, 2003, 03:26:00 AM
"The book: Messenger of the Lord, by Herbert E. Douglass, should be required reading by every SDA."
I have ordered it this week. Look forward to reading it, Thank yu for your suggestion
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Ralph Myers on August 21, 2003, 05:01:00 PM
Hi Richard, In a previous post to me on page three you wrote: "While God sent a prophet with great light to point to the Bible, when this light is rejected, why would God send even greater light? It seems to me that what is needed is not greater light, but a message that will awaken a sleeping church. I think we have that message and it needs to be heard coming from the lips of consecrated Christians."
It isn't greather light that God sends at the end, but a special light that is new and relevant to the specifics of the last day events. We have yet to proclaim the third angel's message with the loud cry. The "new" light to come, could not have been penned by Ellen White. It will apply to the specifics of the last generation and of events yet to come. This is the last generation that is alive today. Ralph Myers
Title: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Ralph Myers on August 21, 2003, 05:24:00 PM
(Rather than an edit...) I should add that the new light is not come because the light given by Ellen White was rejected. It is because it does not contain information regarding all the details of the last days. Such information could not have been written 100 years ago.
God acts, but before that, He chooses a person to voice His message of the events to come. Thus a "prophet" or "messenger" is raised up. That messenger gives the people the message God gave him, and the fact of being a prophet does not necessarily enter into the message. The people do not need to know that so-and-so is a prophet...they just need to focus on the message delivered.
There are many instances where God has raised up individuals and given them the gift of prophecy for a specific and local time and event. They are not afterward carrying new messages to the people. They may have a message for one a few individuals.
I do not feel comfortable with the statement that God will send Elijah the prophet, and that is applied to a movement of people under the Ellen White banner. Ellen White's message was not the "Elijah" message. William Miller did more of that than Ellen White did. Ellen has served a different capacity of nurturing an infant church, and this was not alone. Many are the pioneers that ought to be remembered for their part in the development of our church.
I see an accuracy on the part of all true prophecy, and I cringe when it is downplayed by calling a "movement" as the fulfillment of a coming person so named...Elijah.
It would be as easy for God to have inspired that His prophet would write; Behold, I shall send the message of Elijah..."
Why do we stand saying "right on" (1844) "exact!" (day for a year) and perrrr...fect!! to certain prophecies, but are willing to "round the corners" of others in order to make them fit our preconceived ideas?
We are admonished to know the Bible, and to use that to establish our faith on, and to appeal to others in our witness.
If Ellen White was to be that "Elijah" then it would be suggested to us that we use her writings to give to the world. But that is not the case. We are told that these writings are for us within the church. The Elijah message, is one that is to be heralded to the whole world. Ralph Myers
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Ed Sutton on January 18, 2008, 07:20:21 PM
Lesser & Greater Light - A comparison of the Sun and Moon. When times are dark, the sun's light is not seen, and the only guidance left is the moon.
Christ said it best.
"Deuteronomy 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live. Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
But you may say - you said Christ and in one of the verses you quoted Moses.
My point exactly - who said it first... Moses......??, Moses was just a messenger who passed it on something communicated from someone else.
Then what about the Inuit Eskimo prophet - Maniilaq ? An EGW/Moses with the everlasting gospel/present truth to his people before we got there.
Then what about the "little Bushman" that Southern Publishing wrote about in the late 60's or early 70's - whom Gabriel taught the SDA message and spoken languages in one night - and sent him to look for the three books that are really nine (when the testimonies were bound in 3 vol's ?
then what about the South American Jungle chief, whom Gabriel taught - the missionaries came and discovered a - Sabbath keeping, fully clothed, basically (pre-baptism) but fully SDA native village, because the man in shining clothes talks to our chief at night ?
Light is not light in the lesser, it is the moon the good woman stands upon in a dark time; and without sunlight coming from above the darkness the moon would have nothing.
John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
My parting questions are - where is Jesus physically ? Then who would reflect if He chose them , would not messengers fit the bill ? (as long as...) Mt 5:14 - some are tiny icicle, some 40 watt, some 3 way, some halogen, some 1,000,000,000 watt search lights, but all derive from WHO ?
**************************************** BTW- John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah, but he did no miracles or slay any prophets of baal with, a metal weapon, he used words, he ushered in the Christ and the end of the old system. EGW also came in the spirit and power of Elijah. Due to lack of faith Elijah had to appoint Elisha to finish the work he had been given to finish, not more miracles, but nationwide revival/reformation, and a godly educational system. I am sure parallels can be drawn. Things were supposed to finish in her day, not her fault - their's then - ours now.
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on January 21, 2008, 07:28:27 AM
Amen! Very well said. God will have many "lesser lights" before it is over!
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: T James on June 26, 2009, 06:32:09 PM
What a wonderful forum! I have enjoyed reading this particular thread as a way to open the Sabbath and as a way to "fellowship" with true Adventist believers.
I would like to add two of my own thoughts to this thread as a way of making my entrance into this community :) :
1. I am like many of you here, it appears. I was born and raised into a wonderful Adventist family, and was very familiar with the writings of EGW, even at a young age. But it was not until my junior year of high school that I really discovered Mrs White for myself. A very Godly Bible teacher by the name of Elder Wuttke required his students to pick a topic from the SOP and write 100 quotes from her writings on that particular topic. It seemed like an onerous task, but I set out to research the Time of Trouble. Naturally that took me to the Great Controversy. I was already familiar with the book, but had never truly "read" it. Now, while looking for quotes, I found myself drawn into it. I quite literally could NOT put that book down. I skipped visits with friends, I read into the night, day after day, until I had read it all. And when I finished, I had a joy in my heart which I could not express. I wanted to run out and tell people; "Jesus is coming! Jesus is Coming!!" I think I would have were there any people to tell. Being in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, I had only the trees to talk to ::)
Since that time I have read and re-read the SOP. What a WONDERFUL gift God has given us through her! Even though I had been baptized years before, I count that moment as the moment I truly became excited for Jesus!
2. Being a teacher today in the same role as Elder Wuttke (though in a different location and certainly with much smaller shoes), I have the opportunity to require the same project of my students. And this is something important I want all of you to hear. A large portion of my students are neutral towards the SOP. It used to be that many of them had a strong bias against her (which I believe came from the views of parents), but today it's just neutrality. I think that parents are not even saying anything about the SOP...it's like it's been put on the back shelf and forgotten..."out of sight, out of mind", if you will. Well, when they do this project, the most common response I get (they also write a reaction paper) is JOY! So many of them say they had NO idea that her writings were so interesting and inspiring. It's a wonderful thing to see teenagers realize that there is a wonderful gift to the Remnant.
Happy Sabbath to everyone, and I look forward to more blessings and insights in these forums.
T James
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Brian M on June 26, 2009, 06:34:52 PM
T James,
That is encouraging to hear. Better for the parents to let the SOP fall by the wayside than to openly oppose it. What a blessing for you to share with us the the students are finding Joy in the SOP.
Thanks for sharing that,
Brian
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Mimi on June 26, 2009, 07:21:51 PM
Brother T James: I just love that testimony! Do share more with us as you feel you can. What a joy it must be to experience, first hand, minds light up in excitement. The Spirit of Prophecy has to be the most fascinating read, as the lesser light to Scripture. You are blest to have that experience.
We just heard Elder Pipim at the Michigan Campmeeting explain what happened to many of those parents. Postmodernism and a decline in a belief of absolute truth. Society has saturated itself with it and what happens in the world is brought into the homes and then into the church. Everything is relative, even truth. That may explain it.
Welcome to the forum, dear Brother! :) We are very happy to have another Bible instructor in our midst.
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: T James on June 26, 2009, 07:32:11 PM
Sybil,
Happy Sabbath, and thank you for your reply. I have just finished reading Dr. Pipim's book - the second time. I think he is right on track. I'm sorry I wasn't able to attend the Michigan Campmeeting this year. I sure do miss it. I no longer live in that wonderful state.
If I get the chance I will look for some of the student's reactions regarding the Spirit of Prophecy and share them with you all. They are certainly encouraging given the amount of negative and disappointing news we hear about our youth today!
Blessings!
T James
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Mimi on June 26, 2009, 07:57:10 PM
Well, Hope Video has blest us with recordings from that campmeeting here: http://www.hopevideo.com/camp_meeting_2009.htm
I wasn't there, but we got to see most of the presentations and we can download the them for our edification! What a blessing it has been!
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on July 22, 2009, 10:23:28 PM
T James, dear brother, sorry to have missed your post last month. I was blessed as I read it tonight. Many will be blessed in the future as they also read your testimony of how God is working with the youth and through you!! Continue to share. Our people need the encouragement!
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: ranger on January 07, 2011, 06:23:48 PM
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Ed Sutton on January 08, 2011, 05:22:46 PM
Using Scripture's usage as a definition.
Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
The lesser light is simply a small light source that while providing illumination does not provide so much light as to turn night into day, otherwise it would be the primary light and not the reflected smaller light being feed by the primary light source.
When it comes to inspiration and God talking to humanity. Jesus is the only light until sealed humans are spoken to directly by Father God, hearing the day and the hour after all human probation has closed . SOP is Jesus testifying, this occured after 1798 AD the Biblical time of the end when gross darkness covers the Earth spiritually, and even most protestantism that professes great light is satisfied with carnally minded darkness. To use the lesser light phrase to denote a difference between EGW's inspiration level, calling and work than Jeremiah, Isaiah, Moses.............. changes the tone of the phrase from lesser or smaller light source .....like as the moon is smaller & dimmer than the sun...........into the phrase ...."inferior light" as is that EGW is in their eyes and their supposed Biblical standing ......inferior in inspiration, calling, responsibility, work ........that other prophets. When in fact ................
Quote
Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; and because my work includes much more than the word "prophet" signifies. {1SM 32.4}
Moses work to lead and prepare a sealed people to enter the promised land.
John the Baptist work to lead and prepare a people to receive Jesus Christ .
EGW work to lead and prepare a people to be acquited by the Investigative Judgement and obtain Christ's worthiness to stand before Him in peace at the Second Coming. (sealed )
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: John W on June 07, 2016, 07:01:23 AM
Little heed is given to the Bible, and the Lord has given a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light.--The Review and Herald, Jan. 20, 1903. (Quoted in Colporteur Ministry, p. 125.) 3SM, p. 30
It has always been true that little heed has been given to the Bible by the majority of the world’s population. The Old Testament had been around for some time by the time Jesus came to this earth and lived His life. When Matthew wrote his book, was it not for the purpose of leading men and women to the greater light, Jesus? Can you imagine him saying that little heed has been given to Isaiah and Psalms and the rest of the Old Testament so the Lord has given to the world in the book I have just written a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light, the Old Testament? That would not make much sense. What God inspired Matthew to write magnified and made more distinct what was in the Old Testament. The purpose of inspired writings has always been to lead people to Jesus, the greater light.
Would Paul say about his letters that they were a lesser light, a dimmer understanding of the way of salvation as compared to the Old Testament – the scriptures of his day? The primary purpose of his letters was to lead men and women to a saving relationship with Jesus, the greater light. An effect of his writings no doubt led men and women to have a renewed interest in the scriptures. But he would have never said that the primary purpose of my writings is to lead men and women to the greater light, the Old Testament. He would not have told his readers that what he was writing to them was a lesser light as compared to what Amos or Malachi wrote.
No prophet of God has ever said that the work God has given them to do was in any sense lesser than what God has given prophets to do in the past. John the Revelator would not say that the book I just wrote, the Book of Revelation is lesser than the Book of Daniel even though Daniel was part of the sacred cannon of Scripture at the time John wrote his book.
How should we understand what Ellen White said regarding her writings leading men and women to the greater light? When interpreting inspired writings, it is always wise to examine the immediate context and the wider context of all that that writer has written on the issue in question. If we were to take Mark 9:43, 44 and look at just this text without considering wider context we could come to the wrong conclusion that man will burn eternally in hell. The same with our sentence in question. If this sentence was all we had to go on then the logical conclusion would be that EGW writings, the lesser light was given to lead people to the greater light which in this sentence is the Bible. If we only had this sentence to conclude its meaning we would look at the meaning and synonyms of the word lesser which include: lower in quality, lower in esteem, not as great in amount or degree, less important, less significant; and for the meaning of the word greater we have: better, superior, larger, bigger. In comparing Ellen Whites writings to Jesus, these words make sense. But in comparing one prophet’s writings to the writings of other prophets, this does not make good sense. In the case of the sentence under question, the context does indeed provide the key to its understanding. The paragraph before this questionable sentence says:
“Sister White is not the originator of these books. They contain the instruction that during her life-work God has been giving her. They contain the precious, comforting light that God has graciously given his servant to be given to the world. From their pages this light is to shine into the hearts of men and women, leading them to the Saviour. The Lord has declared that these books are to be scattered throughout the world. There is in them truth which to the receiver is a savor of life unto life. They are silent witnesses for God. In the past they have been the means in his hands of convicting and converting many souls. Many have read them with eager expectation, and, by reading them, have been led to see the efficacy of Christ's atonement, and to trust in its power. They have been led to commit the keeping of their souls to their Creator, waiting and hoping for the coming of the Saviour to take his loved ones to their eternal home. In the future, these books are to make the gospel plain to many others, revealing to them the way of salvation.
And then follows the sentence: “The Lord has sent his people much instruction, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, and there a little. Little heed is given to the Bible, and the Lord has given a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light. O, how much good would be accomplished if the books containing this light were read with a determination to carry out the principles they contain! There would be a thousandfold greater vigilance, a thousandfold more self-denial and resolute effort. And many more would now be rejoicing in the light of present truth.”
Ellen White was urging us to sell these books that God inspired her and instructed her to write. She is saying over and over again that these books will lead men and women to Jesus. In the sentence under question she is using a simile to repeat what she has been saying over and over again in this article. What does this simile mean? Where has she used this phrase lesser light and greater light in her past writings? That could give us a clue as to the meaning of this sentence. We find it in her book the Desire of Ages:
“He (John the Baptist) was the lesser light, which was to be followed by a greater. The mind of John was illuminated by the Holy Spirit, that he might shed light upon his people; but no other light ever has shone or ever will shine so clearly upon fallen man as that which emanated from the teaching and example of Jesus.” {DA 220.2}
“Christ makes no apology when He declares, "I am the light of the world." He was, in life and teaching, the gospel, the foundation of all pure doctrine. Just as the sun compares with the lesser lights in the heavens, so did Christ, the Source of light, compare with the teachers of His day. He was before them all, and shining with the brightness of the sun, He diffused His penetrating, gladdening rays throughout the world. . . .” TMK 97
Ellen White is not saying that her book “Desire of Ages” was a lesser light as compared to what Matthew wrote. In fact “Desire of Ages” could be seen as a magnification of what Matthew wrote. If we were to speak of brightness in comparing inspired writings with inspired writings we might say that Matthew’s writings were a bit brighter than Isaiah’s writings and Ellen White’s writings magnifies and makes brighter the story of Jesus even more. But to say that inspired writings that follow after other inspired writings are dimmer than what came before is not a rational thought.
It is much more rational to say that the work of Ellen White is the same as that of all God’s messengers – to lead men and women to the greater light, Jesus Christ. And because people are not reading their Bibles that would lead them to the greater light God wants us to get her books into the hands of the public so they can be lead to the greater light. To make Ellen White say that her work is lesser than the work of other writers of inspired writings that are found in the Bible has influenced many of our members to set her writings aside as an inferior work of God. It has given them an excuse to ignore these writings. Just because the writings of a prophet must be tested by what has come before does not make them lesser. Paul’s writings had to be tested by Isaiah’s writings but that did not make them lesser in any degree. All the writings of all the prophets have all been lesser lights leading to the greater light, the Son of God.
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Richard Myers on June 07, 2016, 09:57:11 AM
Welcome to our fellowship, John! Thank you for this very well written statement of truth. Communications is hard at the best of times. There is safety in a multitude of counselors who love God and keep His commandments. There is always more truth to what we know. By God's grace when we get to heaven we shall continue discovering truth....and it will continue for eternity. This ought to humble all who seek to give honor and glory to God as we share the truth that we know to be truth. There is always more to learn about what we already know.
There is a similar truth to what you have shared about the Spirit of Prophecy. It involves the teaching of Paul and the covenants. Paul never disparaged the ten commandments, nor did he ever lessen our obligation to keep God's moral laws. But, he made this very truthful statement which appears to many that it lessened the importance of the ten commandments. If those who have read your post can take time to consider why Paul said what he said about the law, it will prove to be a great blessing.
While his statement is another whole topic which we have touched on in other topics, I want to add it to our discussion here because I find the underlying principle to be very similar to what you have just shared.
Here is the statement found in the Book of 2 Corinthians, chapter 3, verse 6. "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the Spirit: for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life." Paul is here speaking of the ten commandments. He appears to be saying he is not teaching according to the Word of God, but according to the Spirit. We see this being done in the wrong manner today in the church where there are some saying they are following the Spirit, when they are going contrary to what is written. Paul was not saying this, his ministry was in harmony with the Bible. But, as with the depreciation of the Spirit of Prophecy, so it is with the written Word and the ten commandments based upon the verse from 2 Corinthians.
Paul is indeed contrasting the Word of God as written with the Spirit of the Living God. But, it does not lessen the importance of the law, nor does it remove any obligation to walk in that law.
John, can you see a parallel principle involved?
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: colporteur on June 07, 2016, 11:55:09 AM
John W;
I agree with your view on the SOP. I first learned this years ago from Lawrence Nelson's study on this. It never made sense to me from the beginning how this statement is presented by most in the church.
Imagine, for instance, if someone said about Ellen White just before she gave birth to Willie, "She is less pregnant than was Elizabeth when the babe leaped in her womb." Either one is a true prophet or they are a false prophet. Either a woman is pregnant or she is not. Either her work is the testimony of Jesus or it is the work of the devil. There is no fence that can be ridden on this. As you say, it makes no sense.
And then the fact that she said that she did not call herself a prophet is misused. She not only stated why she did not call herself such, but she also went on to say that her work was more than that of a prophet. The only people that cannot see the truth in this are those who do not want to see the truth.
Imagine the president writes a note and sends it to you. A few years later he writes another note and sends it. However, the people say that the second note does mean as much as the first; that somehow it is an inferior message. If it was written by the same hand of the same person it equates the same. All other aspects being the same, time changes nothing.
Imagine the work of a prophet at the pinnacle of the world's greatest crisis in the history of humanity; a prophet who has penned more than all others combined; saying that this work is less valuable, less authoritative, less anything.
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: John W on June 07, 2016, 07:55:13 PM
Richard, Yes I can see what you are saying. Here is a thought very close to what you are saying that I wrote in the article, None Dare Call it Rebellion:
In the new spirituality that is sweeping Christendom the idea is prominent that the Holy Spirit today is guiding people through impressions and feelings. Many Protestant denominations are now ordaining women elders because they believe the Spirit is leading the church to do this. They do not derive their authority to do what they are doing from the Word of God. Sunday keeping has the same basis of support. They just know that God would be pleased for them to honor the resurrection of Jesus by the keeping of the first day of the week. Where is the 'Thus saith the Lord' for this practice? There is none. When they ask us for chapter and verse where God specifically authorizes His church to invest women with full ecclesiastical authority what then will we say? The ordaining of women elders in the Seventh-day Adventist Church weakens our position that we base our teachings and practice on the Word of God. It interposes yet another barrier in reaching the 1.2 billion Roman Catholics who do not believe the Bible authorizes women to be invested with ecclesiastical authority. It erects one more obstacle in reaching the 1.7 billion Muslims who believe that women should not be vested with ecclesiastical authority. The Holy Spirit is not leading our church to depart from the practice and teaching of the Bible as stated in that open letter to Elder Ted Wilson. In this letter a retired seminary professor states: In our day the Holy Spirit is leading our Church to take advanced steps as He did at the Council of Acts 15. . . . The Holy Spirit is now saying to the Adventist Church in North America, Europe and Australia to stop dilly-dallying and proceed to ordain the called, trained, effective women pastors and stop this unchristian discrimination . . . .The Western Churches that are ready to follow the Holy Spirit’s leading will show the way to the other countries’ Churches; they will not split the Church--but if you try to stop what the Holy Spirit is leading to be accomplished, you will split the Church! This professor believes the Holy Spirit is teaching the Western churches new light because a large contingent of its members wants to allow women to exercise ecclesiastical authority. We are people of the Book. We don’t develop doctrine in response to cultural pressures or majority consensus. That is how Sunday keeping came about.
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: Ed Sutton on June 07, 2016, 10:03:08 PM
Where did we get the phrase "lesser light" in the first place ?
Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
It is God who made the lights, Earth's night is settling darker and darker, the light God made to rule the light, that lesser light; more and more is under attack.
It is God who committed all judgment and authority to Jesus, to be commander in chief ( archangel) of Heaven's forces, and Jesus obtains directorship to send the Holy Ghost to represent Himself, messengers are recruited by Jesus and spoken to by the Holy Ghost.
The Lesser light is the light of Jesus, shining in Earth's night time, ruling God's denominated human infrastructure at that time, communicating with such specific voice, that no room for argument is given, stabilizing the handling of the Bible by the loyal of that human infrastructure, that actually do keep the commandments of God and the Faith of Jesus, and unto them God has reestablished the gift of prophecy ( Jesus's testifying in their midst ), and this testifying is not a dimmer light, it is actually the night vision function foretold to join the shining of the Bible in this dark hour.
Hebrews 1: 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
This same Son and heir of the Most High, also said : ( to Jeremiah 35:13-15 )
13 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; ..... Will ye not receive instruction to hearken to my words? saith the LORD. 14 .......notwithstanding I have spoken unto you, rising early and speaking; but ye hearkened not unto me. 15 I have sent also unto you all my servants the prophets,........
Jesus called William E Foy, Hazan Foss, Ellen G White, and EGW stayed true to her calling till released by her death.
All big maps cover broad details and leave un-shown the small details whenever necessary, but the time comes that fine details need to be explicitly shown, covered, explained, so that both the tares ( children who delight to disobey ) and the wheat ( children who delight to obey ) can be ripened as the season is closing, as the time of harvest drawn neigh the ripening processes are speeded up.
The Bible is the big map and the SOP ( Spirit of Prophecy ) is the detailed map. Both come to us from the testifying Mediator in Heaven.
The responses in regard to SOP are testimonies in Heaven's record books of how each professed SDA would actually treat Jesus, because how they view and treat Christ testifying, is how they actually treat Him, all judgment is committed into the hands of Christ.
Title: Re: Lesser Light What does it mean
Post by: colporteur on June 08, 2016, 05:51:42 AM
I view the SOP as manifested through the work of EGW as an amplifier. Imagine a science teacher showing the wing of a butterfly to the class. Then the teacher places the wing under a microscope to bring out detail. Would one say that this was a lesser picture and therefore lesser light ? In a sense it is more light. Not extra light, but more detail of the same picture; detail that was there but not generally seen do to dynamics that tend to block the clarity.