The Remnant Online
News => Signs of the Times => Topic started by: Richard Myers on April 24, 2011, 05:55:06 PM
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But if Jesus died at 3 p.m. Friday and vacated his tomb by dawn Sunday morning — about 40 hours later — how does that make three days? And do Hebrew Scriptures prophesy that timetable?
They reported there is confusion among Christians on these three days. But, they got it right.
Jews of Jesus' time followed a lunar calendar, meaning that days began at sunset. For them, Saturday night was actually Sunday, a schedule that still guides Jewish holy days, such as Shabbat.
Ancient Jews also used what scholars call "inclusive reckoning," meaning any part of a day is counted as a whole day, said Clinton Wahlen of the Seventh-day Adventist Biblical Research Institute in Silver Spring, Md.
Using these counting methods, a backward calculation from Sunday morning to Friday afternoon makes three days. source (http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2011-04-13-easter-crucifixion-resurrection.htm?csp=34news)
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Had this question ask of me last week, was at a loss as what to say....3 days and 3 nights...Jonah in the belly of fish and Jesus in the earth...anything else on this?
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Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
I heard a teaching by Stephen Bohr on this. Hopefully, I get it right! I'm sure someone will help out and correct where I don't.
"In the heart of the earth" does not refer to the time that Christ was buried. It is time of the separation from His Father that began in the Garden of Gethsemane. That is where He felt the burden of all our sins laid upon Him and His suffering for them began. In fact, He was dying even then. Consider the following:
"Jesus had been earnestly conversing with His disciples and instructing them; but as He neared Gethsemane, He became strangely silent. He had often visited this spot for meditation and prayer; but never with a heart so full of sorrow as upon this night of His last agony. Throughout His life on earth He had walked in the light of God's presence. When in conflict with men who were inspired by the very spirit of Satan, He could say, "He that sent Me is with Me: the Father hath not left Me alone; for I do always those things that please Him." John 8:29. But now He seemed to be shut out from the light of God's sustaining presence. Now He was numbered with the transgressors. The guilt of fallen humanity He must bear. Upon Him who knew no sin must be laid the iniquity of us all. So dreadful does sin appear to Him, so great is the weight of guilt which He must bear, that He is tempted to fear it will shut Him out forever from His Father's love. Feeling how terrible is the wrath of God against transgression, He exclaims, "My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death." {DA 685.2}
See Chapter 74, Gethsemane, in "Desire of Ages".
So, if you begin with what we call Thursday evening, and use inclusive reckoning, you will have three days and three nights.
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Yes, Diane, I agree & you got it right. :) That should have been included in BRI's quote. Without it, the days still do not calculate to 3 days and 3 nights. Too bad there isn't a place to post comments after that article. :(
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Oops. There is a comment section - my computer was slow loading it.
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... but as He neared Gethsemane, He became strangely silent. He had often visited this spot for meditation and prayer; but never with a heart so full of sorrow as upon this night of His last agony.
I can't even read that without it weighing down my heart.
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We were reading from the Desire of Ages yesterday. I had never before recalled that it says that Jesus' suffering in the garden was even worse than that when he died on the cross. That is amazing to me. One would wonder...how could it have been any worse than His last moments on the cross?
I do not know, of course, but wonder if some of the reason was the speed with which it all came upon Christ in the garden. Leading to the cross and on the cross it was a steady build up of suffering over days but in the garden it sounds as though it was a title wave that hit our Lord.
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When you remember that Ellen White also says that while on the cross His mental anguish (from bearing the sins of the world, and the sense of separation from His Father) was so great that His physical pain was hardly felt, it helps put things into perspective. Since we can sort of imagine what the physical pain must have been like, I hate to even contemplate the mental suffering that He experienced.
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from Kelsy
But if Jesus died at 3 p.m. Friday and vacated his tomb by dawn Sunday morning — about 40 hours later — how does that make three days? And do Hebrew Scriptures prophesy that timetable?
Heart of the Earth refers to entering Satan's Kingdom and jurisdiction, and becoming sin for us. Once He ate the last Passover Supper and instituted Footwashing and Communion he began to become sin for us and began bearing our sins.
Passover Lamb roasted whole with fire and none of the insides removed ( it was slain roasted and eaten that Thur night.) He began to experience the destruction created for Satan and His angels and the sword of Divine judicial wrath was now directed upon Him, since He was starting the redeeming of the debt and cleansing the defilement - per the red heifer symbol + Passover + crushed brazzen serpent. he finished draining the entire cup at 3PM Friday as the typical High Priest was to slay the corporate symbolic Lamb .)
That began Thursday night.
Night 1 - Thursday night - leaves the upper room, beginning to be crushed by sin helped to garden, Gethsemene-deciding to drink the whole cup of wrath against Himself, Trial
Day 1 - Friday day - Brazen Altar ( Calvary )
Night 2 - friday Night
Day 2 - Sabbath day
Night 3 - Night after Sabbath night
day 3 - The dawning of First day ( sunday ) remember Cleopas said "this is the third day" The light part of Sunday was the start of the third day.
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When you remember that Ellen White also says that while on the cross His mental anguish (from bearing the sins of the world, and the sense of separation from His Father) was so great that His physical pain was hardly felt, it helps put things into perspective. Since we can sort of imagine what the physical pain must have been like, I hate to even contemplate the mental suffering that He experienced.
Amen. Evenso, she says the suffering during the time of trouble will be more mental than physical. The new evangelical catchwords are "I had a Gethsemane experience." We cannot comprehend His experience.
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The new evangelical catchwords are "I had a Gethsemane experience." We cannot comprehend His experience.
Indeed not! How can one ever understand what it was like to bear the suffering for the sins of the whole world? How sad that they flippantly throw around a phrase like that!
On the other hand, there may be a bit of truth in it as well. They are like the others that were there at Gethsemane, but apart from Jesus. They did not understand what was about to take place and why. They were asleep.
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OK........do you think there is any truth to this or not...from thetrumpet.com....this was given to me as an explanation.Jesus Christ died in a.d. 31. The Passover that year fell on Wednesday, April 25 (not Friday). Because God’s days begin and end at sunset, the actual Passover ceremony that Jesus observed with His disciples occurred Tuesday night—the beginning of the 14th day of the first month on the Hebrew calendar. On Tuesday afternoon, the disciples had asked Jesus about where to make preparations for the service (Matthew 26:17). That night, during the ceremony, Jesus changed the symbols, explaining that He was now that Passover sacrifice (Matthew 26:26-28).
From thetrumpet.com:After that Passover service, they went out into the Mount of Olives (verse 30). Christ spent much of the night praying while His disciples slept (verses 36-45). Early Wednesday morning, while it was still dark (John 18:3), Judas came with the multitude to arrest Christ (Matthew 26:47-50). The crucifixion occurred later that same day.
At the “ninth hour” of the 14th, Jesus cried out (Matthew 27:46-50; Mark 15:34-37; Luke 23:44-46). This would have been at 3 p.m. on Wednesday afternoon. That night, at sunset, marked the beginning of the first day of Unleavened Bread—one of God’s holy days, as outlined in Leviticus 23 (see also Numbers 28:16-17).
Read more here: http://www.thetrumpet.com/?q=8198.6847.0.0
Edited by admin to avoid copyright infringement.
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Hear that agonized prayer of Christ in the garden of Gethsemane! While the disciples were sleeping beneath the spreading branches of the olive trees, the Son of man,--a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief,--was prostrate upon the cold earth. As the agony of soul came upon him, large blood drops were forced from his pores, and with the falling dew moistened the sods of Gethsemane, while from the pale and quivering lips came the words, "O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done."
Christ was now standing in a different attitude from that in which he had ever stood before. Hitherto he had been as an intercessor for others; now he longs for an intercessor for himself. In his soul anguish he lay prostrate upon the cold earth. Christ had suffered insult at the hands of the men whom he came to bless and save; he had been charged with being linked with Beelzebub, that his miracles of healing were wrought through Satanic agencies; but these things did not cause him the intense agony of soul he was now suffering. He was bearing the penalty of transgression for a sinful world. This proceeded not from Satan nor from man. It is best described in the words of the prophet, "Awake, O sword, against my Shepherd, and against the Man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts." Christ was realizing his Father's frown. He was now suffering under divine justice. He saw what justice meant. He felt that as man's substitute and surety he must be bound to the altar. He had taken the cup of suffering from the lips of guilty men, and proposed to drink it himself, and in its place give to men the cup of blessing. - ST 12-02-97
the bold part...wow....
I still think the key is in the Gethsemane experience being included in the "heart of the earth." Why would it not say "grave" or "tomb" otherwise.
I don't think Christ rose on the Sabbath. I haven't researched that yet, but it doesn't sound right.
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I don't think Christ rose on the Sabbath. ...it doesn't sound right.
I have to agree with Vicki, after reading the following Bible verses:
Genesis 1:5 5 ...God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Mark 16:2, 9 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. 9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Using the common expression, "Christmas Eve", for example, one can understand how Mary could come to the tomb, "very early in the morning the first day of the week...when it was yet dark...at the rising of the sun". One cannot in any way extrapolate the Scriptures to say that Christ's resurrection was on the Sabbath, or 7th day of the week.
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OOPS! I knew this would happen someday...this is really Vicki responding to Kelsey...not Glen! :-[
From cute Kelsey's quote:
“In the end of the sabbath” or “after the sabbath.” But if you study the Greek text, you learn that the word for sabbath is actually plural! “After the sabbaths,” it should read.
I don't know if it should be plural or not. If it is, it could still be the 2 Sabbaths occurring on the same day.
Another from Kelsey's post:
Mark 16:1 says Mary Magdalene and her companions bought spices “when the sabbath was past.” They were planning to prepare these ointments and spices so that they might anoint the body of Jesus. Yet Luke 23:56 says they prepared these spices and then rested on the weekly Sabbath day. Compare these two texts carefully.
Mark 16:1,2 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
Luke 23:54-56 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
With the addition of "had" it could mean they had already bought the spices. Perhaps they bought some of the spices and ointments on Friday before sunset, and some after Sabbath sunset Saturday night.
Just my musings. I don't see any solid evidence to support the claim.
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Really, it was me & not Glen! He wouldn't call a strange Emu cute. ;)
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To add to your texts, Vicki, I found this:
John 19:38-40 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave [him] leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus. And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound [weight]. Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
Joseph and Nicodemus obviously had time to purchase their spices and anoint the body of Jesus with them on Friday. So, the women must have made their preparations then as the text from Luke clearly states. Why would the women have needed a whole day between the ceremonial sabbath and the weekly Sabbath to prepare the spices? Why didn't they just anoint this body then, if the above article was true? The author does not seem to follow his own advice about carefully comparing the four gospels, does he?
And, there is also the following:
The Saviour was buried on Friday, the sixth day of the week. The women prepared spices and ointments with which to embalm their Lord, and laid them aside, until the Sabbath was past. Not even the work of embalming the body of Jesus would they do upon the Sabbath day. {SJ 157.3}
Christ rested in the tomb on the Sabbath day, and when holy beings of both heaven and earth were astir on the morning of the first day of the week, He rose from the grave to renew His work of teaching His disciples. (3SP 204) {5BC 1113.1}
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Good sleuthing, Sister Dee! I knew there was a statement regarding Jesus keeping the Sabbath while in the tomb and the women not embalming Him on the Sabbath. I was hoping there would be a definite statement on the day of the week.
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Passover is historically recorded and it can be coroberated when it fell on AD 31. It is a lunar holiday, and naval records can tell when it occured in AD 31. Full and New moons can be traced back mathmatically a very long ways.
Any historical writers give any non Scripture details ?
He died on the 6th day of the week, took down before Sabbath sunset started the 7th day of the week, rose on the first day of the week.
If He died on Wed then Sabbath is Thursday . It's a backhanded attempt to get rid of time markers for Sabbath - Sunday.
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I think if you read it in the context of the whole article...the author is talking about 2 Sabbaths in that week one is the weekly...anyway...i just was not sure how to respond to this without using Ellen White, it is good to obtain wisdom from others...thanks all....@ vickie...thank you for compliment....i am really just an ole bird...lol
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Just to be clear the reason not to use Ellen White was that this person is a former
Catholic who just became a non denominational Christian and is being confronted with all kinds of doctrines etc. He has been told that we are a cult..so I tread carefully and try to be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove...
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Luke 24:
12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
13 ¶ And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
Jesus Christ was arrested and delivered up on Thursday night - the dark part of preperation day ( friday that had started as sunset)
Jewish timetable
Thur night :
Christ promises to become Redeemer - Passover eaten, Foot washing & Communion symbolize the work of redemption - Calvary - empty tomb - Heavenly medatorial cleansing.
nite-1
Thur night : trip to Gethsemene - beginning to enter heart of Earth Satan's kingdom and dominion.
Thur night : struggle in Gethsemene - fully commits to drink the whole cup of Father God's judicial wrath.
day-1
fri-day time illegal pre dawn trial begins - extends to Annas / Caiphas - to Herrod - to Pilate .
fri-day time - Golgotha - Calvary - 9 AM onward - still drinking in the whole cup of wrath against sin - 3PM finishes drinking the whole cup .
nite-2
Friday evening sun close to setting - the beginning of the Ten Commandment Sabbath. Discovered dead already, rushed to the new unused tomb of Joseph of Arimathaea, because sabbath was almost there.
Friday sunset = start of Sabbath. Jesus is resting in the tomb.
day-2
Daylight part of Sabbath - the passover multitudes cry to have Jesus the healer, the educated among them demanding why the illegal trial was allowed to occur. Multitudes searching the Scripture prophecies of Messiah - some to prove Him wrong, some to make sense of the happenings, some to prove Him right, all find the same conclusion - Messiah is fulfilling Daniel chapter 9 in front of them.
nite-3
Sabbath sunset - the close of the Ten Commandment Sabbath.
False dawn begins to glow into the hints of rapidly approaching visible dawn.
Day-3
It is beginning to dawn, it's still early the first day of the week , the sun is not above the horizon it is not fully dawn in that sense, but still dark. The Covering Cherub Angel comes down with the Royal decree.
Scripture is fulfilled - both in prophesy of the three days and nights in satan's dominion, and granting the prophecied request of Christ about not rotting in the grave.
Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psalms 49:9 That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption.
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Acts 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
It is the third day.
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As always, the scriptural evidence is there, even without the SOP.
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Christ is immortal unable to become unconscious in sleep or die.
God does not sleep.
Psalms 121:
2 My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.
3 He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.
4 Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.
1st Timothy 6;
14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Jesus was back then mortal, and did sleep.
Matthew 8:
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
23 ¶ And when he was entered into a ship, his disciples followed him.
24 And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep.
25 And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.
26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
Mark 4:
37 And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full.
38 And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish?
39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.
Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Dead humans are called corpses. The eternally living Christ was welded inside the corpse of Jesus. Things must move at a schedule to fulfill Scripture. No corruption allowed.
Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
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Yes Indeed Sr Dee It's all there.