The Remnant Online

Health => Gardening => Topic started by: Richard Myers on January 05, 2010, 08:12:41 AM

Title: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on January 05, 2010, 08:12:41 AM

Everybody likes home grown tomatoes. No fish genes, and even if the commercial tomatoes in the store were not genetically modified, have you ever had one that tasted like a home grown tomato?

Now is the time to start thinking about starting your seed indoors. Don't have room? How much room do a few styrofoam cups take up? And you really don't need sun. You don't want leggy plants, you want the roots to develop. You need warmth, not sun. Of course you need to time things according to where you live. Wally must wait another three months before starting his. :( 

I like to get a few plants in the ground as soon as it MAY be ok.  This means that there is still a risk that I will lose them to a freeze. It is ok. I have plenty more coming. If it does not freeze  :)  happy days! I will have early tomatoes. If it freezes, so what. I did not pay a lot for nursery grown plants.  If you do not have a lot more coming, then you better wait until it is safe.

And, there are early varieties that you may want to plant even though they may not be your favorites. Cherry tomatoes do well early also.

A suggestion:  if you have room, take a plastic tray, I save the trays my pineapple  comes in, and put your styrofoam cups in it. You want drainage so place holes in the cups. The tray will collect the drain water. Or, if you have your little plastic trays from last years nursery purchase, plant in them and find a tray to set them in to collect the drain water. The dollar store had aluminum cooking pans that will work for this. :)  So, free styrofoam cups from the picnics at the park, seeds, and a tray is all you need to begin soon!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 04, 2010, 09:26:38 AM

Great ideas, Richard. I got mine started in the little cups ready to plant once the freeze dates are past. They are coming up! These are the Wine variety from California. Thanks for the seeds, Richard! Only four have yet to come forth from the soil, but they will! 

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd271/sybilinanaumer/IMG_0935.jpg)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 04, 2010, 10:53:06 AM

Here are the last seedlings I started. Good thing they were not in the ground when the hail hit. I lost some, but most are ok.

(http://remnant-online.com/Images/hail2.JPG)

Yes, that is hail in the cups!  :(   It did not stay there long!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 04, 2010, 11:05:29 AM

Yours are doing very well! It is such a joy to see something we grow from seeds! During the warm days, I sit the tray out on the porch roof and they receive great southern exposure until sunset and then they come in. I do hope they continue to thrive!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: LindaRS on May 05, 2010, 06:03:57 AM

We had to buy our plants but a lot of heirloom varieties are being offered now so we have only a few plants but several varieties. They survived the torrential rains and are doing well.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 05, 2010, 06:40:21 AM

If your garden is not too far away from electricity you can rig up a couple of plastic garbage cans or like containers, put a small hole in the center of the bottom, big enough to get the end of the cord through, flip them over and hang a 100 watt light bulb. A clothes pin will allow for adjustment on how far to drop the light bulb. When it is very cloudy or very cold just turn on the light. An old thermometer resting on a can next to the plant will tell you just how warm it is. Obviously if to err  is better to err on the side of being a little too cool. Since we have a 60 degree margin to work with this isn't too difficult. When the weather is good or in the daytime just move the garbage can out of the way to where it will not shadow the plant.
    Last year I did this with cherry tomatoes putting three tomatoes in a container 24" in diameter. When the plants grew to a foot tall I put 24" wire mesh cages 7 feet tall over the plants and then pounded 6 ft steel posts on each side of the cage so they would not tip over tying the cage to the posts. We had more than enough cherry tomatoes to last the entire summer from one little 24" area. Every other day I would poke the main stems back inside the the wire so they keep going up. Water almost daily and we had an abundent crop. In warmer states the plants grew to 13 feet tall and required 4 steel posts and twine string guide lines at the top of the cages to keep the whole thing from toppling over. I ran the lines out to steel posts postioned 15 feet away or to building or tree. I put 30" diameter cages with 4'' squares on top of cages to reach the desired height and then wove 6ft long 1"x 3" pine stakes to hook the upper cages to the more secure lower cages so they didn't kink in the middle and collapse when the wind and rain persued. We were able to harvest tomatoes while standing on the top of a 6 ft step ladder. Maybe I can submit a picture sometime if I can get my other half to figure out how.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 05, 2010, 08:11:22 AM

Use photobucket.com or email me the pics and I will post them for you.  You can upload your pics to photobucket for free an then link to them from here.  There is a discussion in the Test Forum on how to do it.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Immanuel on May 05, 2010, 09:19:19 AM

We have our seeds started in little cups. Great money saver. The only thing that I don't grow from seed is tomatoes because there is a local greenhouse that grows non-GMO tomatoes and I can get them for 20 cents/plant! More expensive than seed, but I grow about 25 plants for my garden and the Institute garden and it only costs $5. That is a lot of tomatoes for $5!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 05, 2010, 10:02:27 AM

Wow! You are indeed blest!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 06, 2010, 03:26:10 PM

I have most of my plants planted in the garden now. It is too early but they were getting too big so I decided to risk it and cover them. They are talking upper 20s and and inch of snow Sunday so I may lose them. I planted a second set of seedlings indoors so if I lose the first I have back up. My summer squash have squash on them the size of your thumb. That's very advanced considering the last frost date here is still over a month away. I will be doing alot of covering the next 3-4 nights. My potted cherry tomatoes I can bring inside with a little help so they are safe. My experience is teaching me that starting the seedlings about 6 weeks in advance of transplanting them is ideal. If they get too big before transplanting them I losse rather than gain time do to the stress on the plant.

Our Praying Mantis hatched and were all over the counter today. I put them outside but wonder if they will survive the cold.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 06, 2010, 03:56:36 PM

(http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab175/darya12/scankev10001-1.jpg)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 06, 2010, 03:58:09 PM

(http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab175/darya12/scankev20001b.jpg)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 06, 2010, 05:44:15 PM

Oh my, Colporteur!!!!! Wow wee! Unbelievable photos! 

Quote from: Sybil on May 04, 2010, 09:26:38 AM

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd271/sybilinanaumer/IMG_0935.jpg)

 :'(

The wind blew my precious tomato plants off of their sunny spot on the porch. I returned home to them scattered on the ground. I could only save one of them so the only alternative was to replant and begin again. Oh, how sad to have lost them!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 06, 2010, 05:56:43 PM

Too bad to loose your babies. Like you say, they are replaceable. Tonight I set inside my potted broccoli plant. It is in a 7 gallon container. My wife said I love my plants more than her. With that I bent over and kissed my broccoli. She is doing so well (my broccoli) LOL ! The children found that amusing.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 09, 2010, 11:30:58 AM

What is your secret to such a healthy tomato plant? Have never seen one that tall!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 11, 2010, 12:39:56 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on May 09, 2010, 11:30:58 AM

What is your secret to such a healthy tomato plant? Have never seen one that tall!

The greatest single factor (in growing tall plants) when all other aspects are reasonable is proper caging. The plant may have perfect soil, be insect free, and have the right amount of water and sunlight but if it is not caged and trained properly it will grow up to a certain point and then break down. Store bought cages are worthless. I received a book yesterday from a friend. It is entitled "How to grow world record tomatoes" by Charles H. Wilber. I see from the book that I have the right caging but need slightly large cages in diameter The author has the guiness world record cherry tomatoe plant 28' 7"  tall. Cherry tomatoe plants tend to grow the tallest. This man has cages 36" in diameter. He has had okra over 17 feet tall and has grown the slow growing pecan tree from seed to 6 ft tall in one year. He grew in one season a permission from seed that towered His corn has been 15 feet tall  His tomatoes produce over 300 lbs. of tomatoes per plant. That's more than 120 quarts of canned tomatoes from one plant. I have never pruned my plants but to have really big yields.6 bu. of tomatoes per plant, it is necessary. He is all organic and uses compost almost exclusively. He also plants peas or beans 6-8 feet away from the tomatoes which gives the tomatoes a nitorgen boost witht he best form of nitrogen. There is zero amount of cultivation around the plants as it damages roots. Mulching holds moisture, saves the roots, and controls weeds. Imagine all the tomatoes you can eat and care to can from one tomatoe plant,  which eccentially takes up an area 3' X 3' in diameter. Now that's intensive gardening !

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 24, 2010, 08:43:34 AM

Either there is a conspiracy to keep me from having tomatoes or I am utterly ignorant and presumptive in methodology. What is happening this year has never happened!

The little seeds were replanted after the first disaster and I kept them inside until the days were warmer and the spring winds settled down. After a day or two in the warm sun, they dried up and died, even while moist. So, I planted again and I placed them in a spot that has only a few hours of direct sun. What happened? The winds came. Even the begonias were destroyed. I guess a hot house is the only answer but I cannot afford one until September!  :(

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 24, 2010, 10:02:17 AM

It's global warming, dear sister. I keep thinking we need to pray for warmer weather. I have not seen a spring like this. My Bougainvillea is losing all of its leaves. I kept them inside all winter and put them out a week ago. Temps have been hovering around 40 and I guess one night it must have dropped below 40. Black leaves. :(

Tomatoes will suffer if the temps drop below 40.  Too much water can kill them more than too little. They need to dry out before watering again. The way things are going no one without a green house is going to have tomatoes before the middle of July. :(    Unless you live in the south. :) 

I have not planted my tomatoes in the garden yet. I am still training Betsy to not come into our yard.  It will be a fearful thing to put my tomatoes out. Not really. I just will have to babysit them a couple of nights. But, then she does not visit every night. Only now and then.

In heaven there will be no deer to eat our tomatoes. I am  not sure what they will eat. Maybe just the green grass?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 24, 2010, 10:49:56 AM

Yes, probably grass. A friend down the road has two beautiful tomato plants inside a glassed-in room that serves as a hot house. They are probably 10 inches high. Here I have some of the best tomato seeds in the world and they keep getting destroyed. I may glass in one of my upstairs porches. It has southern exposure. That's an idea mulling around in my mind as I write this. Gotta have a solution to this because I am determined to have them, come what may!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 24, 2010, 12:11:31 PM

You ought to be able to get old sliding glass doors for little or no cost to use. I have used old doors and windows that have been replaced. Call a local glass shop and ask them if they have old glass removed from one of their jobs. Even if you built a little green house attached to the south side of the house. Small, very small. That way you will get it done. :) You will need to vent the area on sunny days or you will cook your plants. :)  We built a cold frame out of a shower door and a couple of 2x6s.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 24, 2010, 01:01:51 PM

Sybil;

If your plants are getting reasonable sunlight after they come up I'm guessing its not the temp or the sun but either too much water or not the right amount of fertilizer.  They can be fussy when they are small especially if other conditions are not the best. They need water every day but they cannot be water logged for too long or else they get a wilt/rot type issue.

 I set my tomatoes out this year 8 weeks before the last frost date. They are doing well and we had a night of 18 degrees and several nights in the 20s. I covered them with buckets and blankets. Believe it or not tomatoes are tougher than most warm weather plants when it comes to the cold. They can generally withstand cold (short of freezing the plant) better than they can take lack of adeguate sunlight. Early in the season flourescent lights help out in that area. There is nothing like sunlight but the artificial lighting helps out quite a bit until the sun is shining.
     My melons did not handle well the extended period of cold temps with lows in the 20's and 30's and highs in the 40's and 50's. The squash handled it better and the tomatoes the best. It is strange that it is in the 90's here this week. Last year it never reached 90 degrees the entire summer.


For me the tomatoe is the queen of the garden. If I could grow only one thing it would be the tomatoe. To garden without is not to garden. I like the way they look, the way the plant smells, the way they grow, and of course best of all the way they taste. They are my favorite food, fried, boiled, baked, and best of all raw with some salt.

Now, ..back to my spaghetti and tomatoe sauce. No kidding!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 24, 2010, 01:21:02 PM

Great advice, thanks! The little planting cups shown in an earlier photo were placed inside a next size larger pot with new Miracle Grow potting soil. I do have a saucer under them and maybe I should remove those, allowing the water to flow through it as it would in a regular bed. Typically they are dry between waterings. I will remove the saucers and see if this makes a difference. Thanks!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 24, 2010, 01:35:22 PM

How much miracle grow?  Liquid or solid?  They little plants cannot take much. They need very little. I will defer to cp. How much is too much, cp?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 24, 2010, 02:20:52 PM

I do not use the Miracle Grow crystals, only their potting soil brand. For fertilizer, I use a concentrated sea weed mix from a local nursery and only with initial seeding. After the plant comes up, it's water and sunshine only.

 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on May 24, 2010, 06:43:22 PM

How much wind were the tomato seedlings exposed to before transplanting outside?     Wind strips away moisture, breaks plants, cools the plant lower than still air tempature, carries abrasive dust, stresses the tender seedlings.       Just like skin, plants can get wind burn, then there's altitude to consider, UV at 7000+ feet elevation is much stronger than 1000-2000 ft elevation, and can really stress tender seedlings

1. As a test - ask a local friend to give you a tomato plant.

2. cut a gallon plastic jug so it's only 75% as tall as it used to be, put 1-2 inches of gravel in and and fill with water low enough to not go into the inner jug.

3. put ink or dark food coloring in the water so it will soak up heat better


4. cut a 2 quart plastic  jug short enough that if is 2 - 3 inches below the top of the other jug, and put potting soil, and the new tomato plant in your homemade solar heater water container.

5. put a weighted top with holes in it over the top of the inner jug. Or use a layer of dried weed stems as a shade, gradually removing stems to allow more light.

6. every 2 days make more holes to let in more light

After a week to 10 days the seedling should be acclimated if wind, and high altitude UV were the problems.

BTW when planting in the garden work some sand into the dirt where planting, the silica from the sand helps build stronger tomato stems.

A lot of strong light on tender skin ='s sunburn, a lot of strong light on tender plants too fast = 's sun damaged leaves.   ( like my transplanted irises  :(    )     90-95% cooked for this year.   went from heavy shade to a bright sunlight spot and once the rainy days quit - ZAP !   Woops - too late.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 24, 2010, 06:57:40 PM

It is kind of a guessing game depending on what type of soil you are using and how big the tomatoe plant is.
The smaller the tomatoe the less fertilizer it needs and the easier it is to burn them beyond recovery.

I usually use seedling mix. Before the plants come through I use no additional fertilizer. Once the plants come through about 1/2 tsp. per gallon of water is enough until I transplant to a 16 oz plastic cup with nail holes in the bottom.  From the time of sowing the seed until planting in the garden I set the containers in a tray so they can soak up water or drain excess water. Since potting soil tends to be rich in fertilizer I would be careful about adding fertilizer. It may be too rich for most seedlings to sow the seeds directly in potting soil. If you do I would recommend no additional fertilizer until the plants are up and growing well. Perhaps the cheapest route for a starter mix to sow the seeds in would be 50% potting soil and 50% spagmum peat. The peat would dilute the potting soil so as to be gentle on the sprouts. Then one can peck away with some miracle grow @ 1/2 to 1 tsp. per gallon of water. When we get the right combo together with good sun the tomatoes will be sturdy as can be and they are good therapy just to look at them. When the plants are healthy and growing well I like to try to bring the plants just short of burning the tips of the leaves. The bigger the plant the easier it is to fertilize. If  one does burn the tips of the leaves you can back off or even drop the fertilizer all together until the plant grows out of the burn.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 24, 2010, 07:05:12 PM

Very true, Ed.

Some light breeze is good for the plant but it must be gradually aclimated to wind and hot sun. I move my plants to a more protected spot if it is too windy and set them in and out of the house until they get toughened in a bit. It doesn't take long for them to adjust but if it is warm, sunny, and breezy it is critical not to let them dry out. Even if they survive a major wilt down it is apt to stress them to where they never fully recover.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 25, 2010, 04:58:41 AM

What a blessing to wake up to such good instruction! Thanks, guys!

I am convinced it is the wind, which was unusually high over the past week because the plants have been sitting in the direct sun (indoors) before taking outside. They were doing just fine before being exposed to the unexpected burst of wind.

Our soil is red clay. It's awful stuff. That is why I buy numerous bags of Miracle Grow potting soil.

BTW, we had a freeze last night.  :'(

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Wally on May 25, 2010, 11:13:52 AM

Quote from: Sybil on May 25, 2010, 04:58:41 AM

BTW, we had a freeze last night.  :'(

I'm sorry to hear that, Sybil, but if I remember correctly you live above 8000'.  When I lived in the mountains in Calif., I couldn't even grow tomatoes, since we could get a frost any night of the summer.  Not to rub it in but up here in the arctic regions of Maine we just hit 90 for the first time yesterday.  I'll be planting my tomatoes this weekend.

I have clay soil, too, and I rarely have to water; but it sounds like your soil is a bit harder to work with.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 25, 2010, 12:44:33 PM

90s?  We are in the 60s and have not come close to 90 yet. Things are very weird. Global warming! It always hits 90 before June, but not this year. Often we hit a 100 in May. Something is going on. Do CO2 emissions bring warmer weather?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Wally on May 25, 2010, 02:31:15 PM

We had an early spring.  Everything was 2-3 weeks early.  It was a strong El Nino this past winter, and I'm wondering if that played a part (and still is) in our early spring and your unusually cold weather.  It's not unprecedented to hit 90 here in May, but it usually isn't hot and humid like it is today.  Today feels like  a typical July day.  The term "Bermuda High" was used by one meteorologist to describe the set up the past few days.  That term is not normally used until July.  

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 25, 2010, 07:11:18 PM

Quote from: Ed Sutton

Sybil,

Do you have any lumber mills where they saw and plane lumber - near you ?   If so pick out a garden spot, order a truck load of sawdust, have it dumped and spread.  Order a truckload of chicken or turkey manure and get it dumped and spread on top the sawdust, and then a truck load of sand dumped and spread on top of that.

If any friends with a tractor with a 6 ft wide rototiller on the back, barter 2 apple pies for 1 deep garden tilling, then let it sit a while and the stuff cook a bit.  

Hardpan soil solved
 

Do you know what, Ed? I can do that! Thank you!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 25, 2010, 09:58:21 PM

Great suggestion!! Use rock or water jugs or drums to collect heat during the day and release it at night. (heatsink) It will moderate the day time temps and give you warmth during the night.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 26, 2010, 09:51:08 PM

What kind of fencing material are you suggesting, Ed?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 27, 2010, 06:01:41 AM

How about galvanized hog wire? It is incredibly sturdy, plus, I have some - but maybe not enough.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd271/sybilinanaumer/hogwirepage110_3.jpg)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 27, 2010, 09:31:18 AM

That is a beautiful fence!! Double the height and I'll take one! 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 27, 2010, 06:54:48 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on May 27, 2010, 09:31:18 AM

That is a beautiful fence!! Double the height and I'll take one! 

It is an internet photo. In my dreams, I own one just like it!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 28, 2010, 08:03:34 AM

I looked at those trees and the ground cover and though it strange to see them in your neighborhood. And, I thought, for what good purpose is that fence? The bears and deer are not going to be stopped. :) The tomatoes would surely be gone overnight. Thanks for removing the nagging concern that it was your fence. Though, I was impressed with your taste. It is beautiful and would work well where there are no deer and bear.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 28, 2010, 06:08:35 PM

Quote

Though, I was impressed with your taste.

 :D :D :D I know a good fence when I see one and it seems as if you do, too!  ;)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 28, 2010, 06:30:22 PM

Hey, Ed - Geodad inspired me with his mist system. As the architect of the dome, I would like to know how to integrate one of those systems into the plan you created. After Sabbath hours, let's discuss this further. Also, I need to know how the structure would hold up to heavy snowfalls. Would I take it down in late October to avoid that problem? Thanks!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on May 30, 2010, 08:48:30 PM

Are cottonwood trees the ones that flare out like an old fashioned men's shaving brush stood up on end with the handle on the ground and the brush in the air ?      If so, thats what the makeup brush is shaped like except it has an inverted cone of filaments sticking up.

If any fruit pollinates askew the shape of the fruit is askew.    I spell phonetically so I am not so sure of "askew" .

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on May 31, 2010, 02:15:30 PM

Have you ever wondered why your tomatoes and peppers sometimes get blossom end rot and great looking fruit has a rotted section ?

Usually it's after or during rains when the tomatoes and peppers have stopped or slowed down growing because of lack of water.  

rains come at last, or you forgot to regularly water the garden - let it get way too dry and now give it lots of water.

Suddenly they start or speed up growing rapidly, then fruit blossom end rots.  It is a temporary calcium deficiency caused by rapid growth, not enough calcium in the soil or the plant for the roots to feed the plant a quick surplus to build the cell walls in the rapidly developing fruit, and those cells go gangrene literally and rot, on an otherwise good looking tomato or pepper.

Tomatoes and peppers are prone to this.  

There are 2 remedies.

1. Soil prep and enriching before planting with slower release calcium sources.

2. Buy a concentrate to mix with water and foliar feed / water with / root zone drench - either before it happens, (like before going to campmeeting) , or upon returning from campmeeting and finding blossom end rot in progress.

Ever noticed that every year storms during campmeeting, and evangelistic series - then be proactive with tomatoes and peppers too.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 08, 2010, 06:21:58 PM

I took five containers of the yellow variety tomato plants to a friend's greenhouse for an experiment. Her's were almost to the roof, so I got excited at the potential for the heirloom seeds Richard sent. In my yard, they were trudging along, growing, but not so quickly, even in full sun. The trouble is the cold nights. They do not like it, so one week ago I left them with my friend. They were probably 4 inches high. I saw the little things today and they are almost a foot high! Doubling size in one week is shocking. Talk about thrilled!

Hers are hybrid cherry tomatoes. Compared to the color of the leaves of the heirlooms, they appear sickly - pale green, whereas the heirloom leaf is very dark green, thick and sturdy. I could hardly believe my eyes. They were beautiful! Again, thank you, Richard, for the seeds.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on July 08, 2010, 08:40:20 PM

Sounds like you need that hoophouse............any sleeplabs with openings in your area ?   If I get hired I'll help you build it.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 09, 2010, 06:49:43 AM

Bless you! If things ever settle down around here, I'll get it built.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on July 11, 2010, 10:19:25 AM

Something is eating our tomato blossoms.

Suspects: guinea hen, quail, rabbit, tomato hornworm.

Alibi's: quinea hen & quail have been around for years but I didn't notice blosoms missing previously; a small rabbit could get through the fence, but the garden greens weren't munched; tomato horn worm would have eaten more than the blossoms.

It was windy last night & this morning so no foot prints in our dusty garden this morning.

Out of the above possibilities, which would you think it is and how would you deal with it?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on July 11, 2010, 10:55:19 AM

Are there any blossoms on the ground ?

Are their desicated remains of blossoms still on the plants ?

Any remains of blossoms on the ground ?

are the blossoms drying up and blowing away?

If you have an artists paintbrush - hand polinate some new blossoms then cover with a looser weave cloth bag (like cheesecloth), and secure with string so no tiny worms, moths, critters can get through.

Check each day, and do the blooms remain at least in part when a tomato starts forming ?

Get a small spritz bottle of blossom set and spray the backside of new blossoms to keep them available for pollination longer, if the humidity is consistantly too dry, or nites too cool, nites too hot, days too hot,  or windy, too much stress on plant, it interfers with the already limited life cycle of the blossoms - preventing or deminishing pollination opportunities.

Blossom set helps over ride this and gives more opportunity for pollinization.  Even tomatoes have fertility problems.  Total accumulated stress causes chemical alarms withing the vegetable and fruit plant - with disease conditions results > just as they do in humans.

her's fall off too (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRwBGlejEsU)


tomato problems (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N70yDwYEyYs)

why they fall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN-eBc1QESE)

Use a shade cloth white color, as a canopy over the tomatoes, use a more open weave cloth like cheese cloth as a decreasing factor for the day time intense sunlight /heat.   Once the stress is decreased the plants hold flowers longer.   Commercial growers do this, but home growers can too (smaller scale).

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on July 11, 2010, 12:10:54 PM

Thanks for all the info, Ed. Slow computer - we've only seen one youtube so far but we're working through it.

We just got back from our sleuthing adventure. We did find some blossoms on the ground. Early Girls appear to be the only ones affected. 60's at night & high 90's at noon is too extreme? No humidity to speak of here. So I should find a way to shade them? All day long shade or something that needs put up for the middle of the day heat? Husband probably has more knowledge about this than I do, but he's gone for the day.

We did find one plant that had a leaf half munched - 1/2 tomato hornworm. Chickie thought he was delicious. Couldn't find anymore worms, munched leaves, or eggs elsewhere.

I'm glad it wasn't the quail - I would be in touble with the law since it's not quail season. They do like to peck holes in the ripe tomatoes, but we've got enough plants that I don't get too upset over that.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 11, 2010, 02:40:33 PM

The green worm leaves evidence behind. Like geese, they leave a trail  of droppings. Black. I usually see the droppings before I see the worms. My cure is to get the moth before it lays the eggs. We have a game we play with the water hose. It is not nice for the moth, but it is either her or my tomatoes. It seems neither of us win the game, but many of them  lose the battle.  Some, I think get smart and if they manage to escape, they don't come back.

Like Betsy, some learn how  serious  I am at protecting my garden from vegans.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on July 11, 2010, 05:30:42 PM

The moth would have to hold very still for a water game with me - we use a bubbler.  ;)

I only saw one moth last year & it was late in the season. It escaped over 2 rows of fence. I hesitated to nab it since I hoped son would do the dirty work - but he thought it was gross and wouldn't touch it. He did play with the humongous tomato hornworm we found a few weeks previous. Gross. I resolved not to be that squeamish this year...but I haven't found a big one yet to prove my mettle.  :P And I didn't have to touch the little one - I took the whole leaf to the chickies.  ::)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 11, 2010, 06:16:35 PM

A very large gray moth has been eating the geranium leaves.  >:( He is so large that I will need to take the broom to him - that is, if I can find him tonight.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on July 11, 2010, 06:48:43 PM

Those big moths are fun to look at - except when they make themselves at home on our gardens.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 11, 2010, 06:52:52 PM

Yes! Those buggers! I went looking for him but of course, he is nowhere to be found. I did discover 3 wasps nests (gratefully empty) and empty swallow nests so some cleaning is in order!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on July 11, 2010, 06:59:54 PM

A few years ago we saw a big moth on the bumper of a van at a gas station. Husband & son walked closer to get a better look. When the driver saw them they pointed to the moth. The man took a rolled up newspaper & swatted the thing off his bumper. How horrid! But maybe he was a gardener and had pent up frustrations. We took it & fed it dandelions and drops of water until it recovered then set it free in a park - not near our garden.  ;)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 28, 2010, 10:51:21 AM

Quote from: Sybil on July 08, 2010, 06:21:58 PM

I took five containers of the yellow variety tomato plants to a friend's greenhouse for an experiment. Her's were almost to the roof, so I got excited at the potential for the heirloom seeds Richard sent. In my yard, they were trudging along, growing, but not so quickly, even in full sun. The trouble is the cold nights. They do not like it, so one week ago I left them with my friend. They were probably 4 inches high. I saw the little things today and they are almost a foot high! Doubling size in one week is shocking. Talk about thrilled!

Hers are hybrid cherry tomatoes. Compared to the color of the leaves of the heirlooms, they appear sickly - pale green, whereas the heirloom leaf is very dark green, thick and sturdy. I could hardly believe my eyes. They were beautiful! Again, thank you, Richard, for the seeds.

The plants are needing the cages! YAY! What a difference the greenhouse has made. We are hoping for a bountiful harvest! Will take photos when that begins to happen. 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on July 28, 2010, 02:29:10 PM

Vicki,

cheesecloth ia a great shade cloth, get it as wide as possible, and as long as the row needs.   Use pre-existing brush, tall grass stalks, sticks, even tying corners with string and suspending from the tomato sticks (like the roof of thr Denver Int Airport ), whatever works to shade the tomato plants, (even making one open sided loose drawstring tie cheesecloth sacks like a trash bag) to cover the tomato plant .   (But leave one side open for pollination and picking )
**********************

Sybil,

Great to hear, hope to see pictures of lots of ripening tomatoes soon .   ;D

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 28, 2010, 08:49:18 PM

Why shadecloth for tomatoes? I thought the liked plenty of sun?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on July 29, 2010, 12:31:17 AM

Vicki was saying her tomatoes were dropping the blossoms without setting tomatoes ='s a stressed tomato plant.   Day time heat she said was upper 90's close to 100, with 60 degrees at night ='s a 40 degree shift per 24 hr cycle.    From U tube it was shown that such stress can stop fruit set in suceptable older varities.  If her altitude is high enough night times will drop too low at nite to limit the range to 20 degree range shift.   

So cutting the daytime sun intensity 5 to 10 % will decrease the width of the range shift.   If she could like Sybil put her tomatoes under a heat retaining cover (in Sybil's case a friends greenhouse ) each nite,, the stressful range would decrease, blossoms stay long enough for pollination and fruit set, plus it decreases sun scald on ripening tomatoes on really hot days.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 29, 2010, 09:50:34 AM

Thanks Ed. I could not see putting shade cloth over my tomatoes. Although we have gone from 68 to 110.  I suppose I ought to consider doing something if I don't get tomatoes soon!!  It seems some varieties are doing better than others. My neighbor gave me some heirlooms, three varieties, and I had four different heirloom varieties. And I planted some hybrids. It appears that the heirloom varieties are more temperamental. My neighbor did not get tomatoes last year from his heirloom. He said he needed to plant them earlier so they developed before it got real hot. I had not known this. This year there was no danger since it remained cool late into summer which has caused a problem with all tomatoes here. We have only gotten a few regular tomatoes so far.

But, the zucchini is putting out great! Looking for those who like to make zucchini bread!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on September 29, 2010, 06:09:18 PM

The tomatoes have finally come on. I've been making sauce at least twice a week, and we are having our fill of tomato sandwiches.  :)

This week, the horrendous happened. Actually, 38 horrendous things. Tomato horn worms.  :P The majority have been picked off of the heirloom tomato plants. The top 3rd of most of those plants are practically bare. I would like to think we got them all, but that is doubtful. Tomorrow I'm cutting off all the munched branches so I can tell if there are any worms left.

(The chickens are happy. If any of you have difficulty giving up eating chicken, just think about eating tomato horn worms second hand.  :P)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on September 29, 2010, 06:55:53 PM

Yes, I lost the top third of mine also. Besty's daughters had Bambies  and they all had a feast one night last week.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on September 29, 2010, 07:05:37 PM

We are out numbered.  :(

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on September 30, 2010, 07:48:26 AM

It was the first year I grew the heirloom and I am not sure about them.  It seems that they come on later than the hybrids? Or was it just the late summer weather that held them up?  Did you notice a difference between your varieties in when they produced?  I had beautiful plants, but few tomatoes until late and then the deer moved in. 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on September 30, 2010, 08:30:03 AM

I think it was a poor year to tell. Everything came on late here - even the Early Girls. We've had 2 red heirlooms, all the other heirlooms are still green. Early girls began rippening about 3 - 4 weeks ago, Sweet 100's, Roma's, and then Rutger's followed close behind, and are still producing a decent amount. But heirlooms remain green, and not too many on the plant either.  :( I still plan on trying them again next year.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on September 30, 2010, 06:08:53 PM

Try the reflective red plastic mulch engineered to reflect light wavelengths that increase tomato and pepper production. 

Heirlooms usually start to produce slower than hybrids, but are worth waiting for if ripened on the vine.  The last day ot two develops the acid / sugar / flavor balance and heirloom complexity they are famous for. 

With cooler temps, our tomatoes have resurged production.   

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on September 30, 2010, 07:51:00 PM

The heirlooms are indeed very different in nature to the hybrids. I finally was able to find a stable environment for my five little plants. All the plants came up, sturdy, robust, very dark green. Everything was so promising ... then ... only one tomato on five plants. One, in all these months! The plants bloomed - not that much for their size (almost four feet tall), but only one tomato came to be. We call it the $75 tomato! It remains in my friend's greenhouse and we are silently wondering which person gets it.  :D We will probably ceremoniously split it and savor each bite.   

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on September 30, 2010, 08:53:14 PM

I am wondering if it was the weather or this particular heirloom or a combination of both? My neighbor planted heirlooms last year and lost them all. He said something about the heat in the spring.  I will have to check with him and see how his did this year. I think he tried again with some heirlooms.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Sister Dee on September 30, 2010, 10:57:23 PM

Quote from: Vicki on September 29, 2010, 06:09:18 PM

(The chickens are happy. If any of you have difficulty giving up eating chicken, just think about eating tomato horn worms second hand.  :P)

Ah!  Is that what chickens are for?  Garden pest control!   ;D 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on October 01, 2010, 06:58:09 AM

Remember the parable about the man sitting on his house surrounded by flooding water?  A couple of boats come to rescue him and he refuses. A helicopter comes and he refuses saying God will help  him.  When he gets to heaven, he asks God why he did not save him from drowning in that flood? God explains that He tried to, but all of His efforts were refused. 

I have been having problems with vegan creatures eating on my tomatoes, kale, collards, etc. One day a hen hen appeared in my yard, I chased her away. The next week a black rooster appeared. I chased him away. He continues to come back even when I yell at him. Maybe I ought to let them stay?  :) 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on October 01, 2010, 07:36:20 AM

A rooster can be good. Try it and report back.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on October 01, 2010, 08:18:33 AM

Chickens are good for loving. Son has a favorite he carries around. (And wishes we had a leash so he could take it for a walk.  ::))

We pick the horn worms off and take them to the chicken pen. Chickens would eat the garden worse than tomato horn worms. Chickens love red tomatoes and carrot greens, and I'm sure they would eat more than that.  A neighbors guinea hen has to be chased away from our red tomatoes every now & then, along with quail.  :(

Quote from: Sybil on September 30, 2010, 07:51:00 PM

We call it the $75 tomato! It remains in my friend's greenhouse and we are silently wondering which person gets it.  :D

 :D

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on October 01, 2010, 08:24:42 AM

My husband once told me guineas are as fierce as peacocks when it comes to keeping animals off of "their" property, even running off coyotes. I suppose that is true? Seems they would work well for deer control. 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on October 01, 2010, 08:30:58 AM

That would be worth looking into for those pestered by deer. They don't eat nearly as many tomatoes as deer. I've only noticed about 4 half-eaten this whole season.

Early one morning I witnessed a coyote sneaking up on guinea hens, using sage as a cover. When he got too close one of them spread its wings and ran after him. He left pronto.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on October 01, 2010, 03:49:19 PM

Thanks for the warning!  It is sometimes hard to tell from whence such things come. We will throw the worms over the fence.  My $35 tomato I am hoping will remain hidden from all predators!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on October 01, 2010, 04:44:28 PM

Well, bless you! It seems our crop of tomatoes were on the lean side this year. Will go to Ann's next week and make a photo of "The $75 Tomato." She priced it, by the way. Architects tend to include their time as well as materials on these things. Guess I should send her a check.   :P

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on October 01, 2010, 06:39:50 PM

Richard, I have difficulty telling who's been munching on tomatoes, too. We have too many chipmunks. I thought they were the culprits until the organic farmer down the road said it's the quail and rogue guinea hen.

~~

Sybil, at that price I would give her the tomato & hope she calls it even!

~~

Science moment: tomato horn worms molt. If I had thought about it, I would have realized that. Today I tore a small branch off a plant that had a smallish horn worm attached. (I don't touch them if I don't have to!) In the 15 minutes or so that it took son to come fetch it the thing molted. Son showed me the skin stuck to the leaf, which also had it's little black & white teeth attached to it. Quite amazing. I'm considering letting the next one we find live on a plant they have fairly well ruined anyway if I can figure out how to isolate it so we can watch it through it's changes.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on October 03, 2010, 11:54:13 AM

 sounds like time for taking suckers and cutting from the heirloom tomatoes, planted in a bucket in the house with potting mix and time release fertilizer.  

(potting mix to by pass soil diseases that stress and finally kill the plant and infect tomatoes)

Get a small to medium artist or makeup brush to hand pollinate, the plant will grow, produce slower, but instead of the plant charging you a govermnent issue $75.00 / tomato - price,    make the live part of the plant earn it's keep - and through the winter - (under a bright floor lamp - already in use in the eveings),  produce homegrown tomatoes, red for sandwiches and green for fried green tomatoes.  

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on October 03, 2010, 11:57:04 AM

Good solution!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on October 03, 2010, 01:48:55 PM

Why not start new tomato plant from seeds?  I don't see a sucker on mine. How low does a sucker grow on a tomato plant?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on October 05, 2010, 11:26:57 AM

suckers, branches, stem tips 6-10 inches long - root um it's way faster than seeds - unless seeds are all you have.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on October 05, 2010, 12:41:59 PM

I try and root all kinds of plants, why not tomatoes!!  Thanks for the idea!!  I am not sure my wife is going to go along with the program, but I will try. She likes home grown tomatoes!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on February 22, 2011, 02:50:01 PM

Richard;

I saved some tomato seeds for the first time two seasons ago. I did not know the seeds have a protective covering that needs tom be rotted off, more or less. Can one put the seeds in canned tomato juice. Will the coating ferment and fall off or does it take fresh juice ? It sounds like the acid should take off the coating whether fresh or not. What do you know about that ?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on February 22, 2011, 09:50:12 PM

Here is the discussion on that subject.  http://remnant-online.com/smf/index.php?topic=9458.0

I suggested using pulp from another tomato. Place in a quart jar with a little water to aid the process. Two or three days ought to do it. Then, just fill your jar up with water and the good seeds will sink and the rest will float to the top. Pour off the mess and rinse as many times as is needed to clean the seeds. Dry and store.  I initially tried to strain the mixture and then clean the seeds by hand. :(  It is very easy and quick by just filling the jar with water and pouring off the mess.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on March 25, 2011, 04:09:54 AM

This past week I sliced a tomato I bought from the store (not organic) and found it full of sprouting seeds. Out of curiosity I took a thick slice and put it in a peat pot, covered it with soil and now there are several tomato plants growing. Has anyone had any experience with this? Am I wasting my time and garden space? :-\
Thanks for the instruction on seed saving. This year I'm going to try it. Last year the blight hit and I didn't have enough time in the growing season to let them ripen on the vine.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on March 25, 2011, 05:28:08 AM

I have experienced that, Dorine. It was a shocking surprise. Mine got tossed.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on March 25, 2011, 07:39:45 AM

Quote from: Dorine on March 25, 2011, 04:09:54 AM

Am I wasting my time and garden space? :-\

I'm new at seed saving and have discovered it would save a lot of time & effort to read a book about it! Last fall I discovered my tomato varieties were planted to close together so I didn't save any of the seed. Since you already have sprouts, I'd save a few for experimental purposes - if you have a large garden.

If different varieties of tomatoes are planted together the seeds inside each tomato will not produce true to the plant you got them from; they will cross pollinate and you could end up with a disaster in the next generation of plants. At least from what I have read and heard. If you do have a large garden, plant your experiments a good distance (I don't know what that would be) from other tomatoes if you plan to keep seeds.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on March 25, 2011, 08:11:15 AM

This truth about the cross pollination of plants is important.   Natural seeds are being lost at a rapid rate due to cross pollination with hybrid seed. Hybrid seed does not reproduce the same plant from seed. When the natural seeds are lost, then the seed companies are in the driver's seat.  And, when commercial growers are using a few basic varieties that are hybrid, there is a great risk that a disease will take out a large portion of the whole crop.

One of the solutions coming from scientists is genetic modification including such things as round-up ready foods and plants modified with animal genes.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on March 25, 2011, 09:09:48 AM

Thank you. I think I'll toss the ones from the store that are growing. It only makes sense seeing all my seeds that I plant are organic and I do want to keep it that way. Curiosity killed the cat so I guess in this instance I best let curiosity die.  

Now that you mention about cross pollination I realize that I have a problem. I grow 3 different kinds of tomatoes each year (Quebec 5, cosmonaut Volkov and Cherokee Purple) and I always plant them together but rotate them to a new area of the garden each year. My garden isn't big enough (400 sq. feet)to keep them apart from each other. I've got to think this one through better if I want to save seeds for next year.

I wonder if I planted peas or corn between the different varieties of tomatoes to separate them if that would work. Any thoughts on that?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on March 25, 2011, 09:44:28 AM

It can help. It depends on how careful you want to be.   Select tomatoes that bloom at different times. Plant one variety earlier than another. Or just plant one variety each year. Or you can bag the blossoms since tomatoes pollinate themselves. By planting other plants in between, you will entice the bees and other insects to go there, but there are some bees that will spot your heirloom past the corn and think that the pollen is sweeter on the other side of the corn. :( 

I remember that seed growers would find a location where they are miles from other crops that might cross pollinate.

We can only do the best we can and then leave the rest to God.  It would be a good idea to carefully label seed and plants so that you know what seed you are dealing with and the results.  Always keep seed from multiple tomatoes to insure that when one is cross pollinated you have others that are not. Of course you want to plant seed from more than one tomato since you won't know until the tomatoes are produced. 

It is a good time to learn about such things so when we need the food, we won't be surprised by a total crop failure.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: JimB on March 25, 2011, 06:44:14 PM

All this time and effort spent on tomatoes???  I think I could find a much better fruit to put my time and resources in!! :)   Such as.... a watermelon :) You just keep eating those tomatoes and leave the cantaloupe and watermelon for me :)  Now... I must admit that I do eat tomatoes.... on my salad only because I know they are good for me and I can hide the taste in a good salad. 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on March 25, 2011, 08:47:35 PM

 :D

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on April 03, 2011, 02:48:05 PM

For those with soil diseases that damage or kill your tomatoes, try grafting tame tomatoes onto disease resistant wilder tomato root stock,  or graft several varities onto one plant for fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHnOYcI6B44

Even try grafting eggplant  & peppers onto a hardy tomato plant either for fun or soil disease resistance -  all in nightshade family,  will graft to each other.  If doing just a few plants for fun, use cleaned flower pots & potting mix, pencils & saran wrap for a humidity tent, put in semi shade / sun in the house and sit pot in saucer and bottom water.

Just be sure it's not caribbean red habaneros or ghost chilis you graft with .    ;D     hot hot hot.

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/Assets/Information/TomatoGrafting.pdf

http://l.wbx.me/l/?p=1&instId=d15b87ae-81c8-4662-9d44-c2212d44df16&token=5e3e38bd220ef2ce5d9200407a5aa887a2cc04f20000012f19690f70&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgrowingideas.johnnyseeds.com%2F2011%2F04%2Ftomato-grafting-worthwhile-pursuit.html


Try grafting organic heirlooms onto disease resistant root stock & use the red reflective film as a weed barrier mulch - say for a 10 to 12 foot long row, sell the biggest prettiest tomatoes as investment project.   ;D

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on April 07, 2011, 10:23:01 AM

I have planted 24 green heirloom tomato plants from organic seeds using paper egg crates and Miracle Grow potting soil. My aim is not to lose them to either the wind or freezing temperatures. Last year I had them in a hot house with regular tomato plants then read about cross pollination. It did not enter my mind to avoid that! I am not a vegetable gardener but am trying!

At present, they are sitting under a long, industrial-type fluorescent light. Until I can set up grow lights, these will have to do. It will be quite a while before they can go outside.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 10, 2011, 06:40:02 PM

Ready to plant.

(http://remnant-online.com/Images/tom.jpg)

I think.....Betsy and Bambi are waiting.....

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Sister Dee on April 10, 2011, 07:10:50 PM

And, Brother Richard, have you a new plan for dealing with the dear deer this year?   ;)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 10, 2011, 08:19:24 PM

Dogs, cat, alarm, and prayer plus I am going to build a cage around the tomatoes!  They ate my tulips and roses, but they won't get the tomatoes.  Maybe a sleeping bag next to the tomatoes.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on April 10, 2011, 08:36:16 PM

Richard - did you grow those from seed? They are mighty pretty!  ;)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 11, 2011, 09:33:08 AM

Yes, they are my babies that I kept by my bed on my nightstand. It is in a south facing window. :)     

They are going in raised beds as soon as I get the jail cells ready. It is for their own protection. :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Sister Dee on April 11, 2011, 09:42:17 AM

I pray that you are both blessed with a successful tomato crop this year!   :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 11, 2011, 12:03:55 PM

Thank you!!  Now, we need to get a homegrown tomato to Brother Jim who must have never had one!  He says that he eats tomatoes because they are good for him, but I question that. It is hard to believe a store bought tomato is good for anyone!  :)   On the other hand a BLT (Big, lettuce and tomato) sandwich is indeed not only delicious, but good for us!

You can buy a good watermelon in the store, but you cannot buy a good tomato. And, thus the reason so many of us try to grow tomatoes!!  And, if Brother Jim wants proof of how good they are, I will send him some photos of the herds of deer that love them. I have never ever found a deer that does not go for the tomatoes first!!  And they do not stop with the fruit, they eat the whole plant!!! Every one of them ! See the topic on Deer Aren't They Sweet (http://remnant-online.com/smf/index.php?topic=7956.0)   :(

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on April 11, 2011, 12:12:01 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on April 11, 2011, 09:33:08 AM

Yes, they are my babies that I kept by my bed on my nightstand. It is in a south facing window. :)     

That is a serious commitment!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 11, 2011, 12:22:54 PM

Jim is still trying to figure it out.  :)  But, he would be pleased to know the the avocado tree in on the piano and the bougainvillea are a few steps away from the tomatoes.  And, the fruit trees are in the ground and are leafing out. What will surprise many is that we have a lawn that could have been planted to fruit trees. I like it, but question spending the money on water and gas. We could have planted it to tomatoes!! And maybe will do that when the day comes when we cannot buy gas

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Marelis on December 17, 2011, 04:21:15 AM

Colporteur, you are an inspiration as far as being a gardener is concerned.  I could hardly believe the height of your tomato bushes.  I'm looking forward to my second attempt at growing tomatoes and hope to get it right next time.  Gardening sure is something we learn by trial and error.  I have lots of heirloom seeds.  For years I thought there was no point in even trying to grow vegetables where I live.  We have insects and birds galore (which don't touch the herbs but reduce seedlings to a stump in under a day) and the soil is very impoverished.  But I become strongly impressed that I must learn to grow vegetables. I've learned that I must mulch, mulch and mulch some more.  Have become serious about composting and even started a worm farm (with success!)  But if I can become a successful grower of heirloom tomatoes I'll be thrilled....I've seeds for several varieties.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Marelis on December 17, 2011, 12:53:36 PM

Have any of you tried growing Siberian heirloom tomatoes?  They're meant to be frost resistant.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on December 17, 2011, 01:55:28 PM

Quote from: Dorine on March 25, 2011, 04:09:54 AM

This past week I sliced a tomato I bought from the store (not organic) and found it full of sprouting seeds. Out of curiosity I took a thick slice and put it in a peat pot, covered it with soil and now there are several tomato plants growing. Has anyone had any experience with this? Am I wasting my time and garden space? :-\
Thanks for the instruction on seed saving. This year I'm going to try it. Last year the blight hit and I didn't have enough time in the growing season to let them ripen on the vine.

I thought I'd give you an update on what happened with these tomatoes. They grew beautifully (5 ft. high) and produced identical tomatoes and lots of them to the ones the seeds came from . They had lots of green tomatoes on them when a hurricane type wind storm ripped through our province in Oct. and blew our 12X20 foot greenhouse from it's spot ruining everything inside. It was a fun experiment but I don't plan to do it again.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on December 17, 2011, 03:33:54 PM

That is very strange, Dorine. i have grown and eaten alot of tomatoes and have never seen seeds sprouting in a tomato even in a rotten tomato.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on December 17, 2011, 09:31:47 PM

That is very strange.  Thanks for sharing Dorine.  It is good to be getting some experience at such things.  I am convinced that I must have some heirloom seeds, but also a lot of hybrids. :)  Then you have to keep them all separated.  fort he following year. But, I am thinking that at some point, there will not be "another year". Praise God!! I am ready to go home. How about you all?   :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on December 18, 2011, 06:05:52 AM

I am ready!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on December 18, 2011, 06:48:30 AM

Before I lost my singing voice I sang many solo`s for church, weddings, funerals, dedications etc. One of my very favorites was "Homesick For Heaven". Here are the words....
Home Sick for Heaven
 
So dear to my heart is the promise of God,
A home with the pure and blest;
Where earth weary pilgrims, strangers here below,
Will find their eternal rest.
 
Chorus:
I’m homesick for heaven, seems I cannot wait,
Yearning to enter Zion’s pearly gate;
There never a heartache, never a care,
I long for my home over there.
 
‘Tis Eden, fair Eden, I long to behold,
Where naught can despoil that’s fair;
Where saints of all ages, hold communion sweet,
The glories of heaven share.
 
But chiefest of all is the thought that enthralls,
That I shall behold my King;
Rejoice in His presence, revel in His grace,
And ever His praises sing.
 
by Henry de Fluiter

I too long to go home.

Sorry....this has nothing to do with tomatoes but I couldn't resist the opportunity Richard gave us to vote for our yearning to go home.  :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on December 18, 2011, 08:02:37 AM

Amen! I too love that song!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Marelis on December 18, 2011, 10:58:14 AM

Quote from: Richard Myers on December 17, 2011, 09:31:47 PM

That is very strange.  Thanks for sharing Dorine.  It is good to be getting some experience at such things.  I am convinced that I must have some heirloom seeds, but also a lot of hybrids. :) 

You need hybrids because.....?.....they are stronger/tougher?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on January 23, 2012, 07:32:54 PM

Marelis, I think Richard wrote that because heirlooms are more difficult to grow.  Also, if I remember right, the heirloom tomatoes we all tried to grow took longer than hybrid tomatoes. Most of mine were still green when the 1st frost came.
___________________________________

Awhile back we were discussing the difference between GMO and hybrids. I can't find that topic so I thought I would post this here since hybrids are mentioned. From Bountiful Garden's catalog (www.bountifulgardens.org):

Quote

Hybrid Seeds are seeds from the first generation of a cross between two varieties. . . .  The bad thing about hybrids is not how they are made; it is that their parentage is secret and their seed doesn't "breed true" for seed saving. Hybrids make gardeners dependent on the companies who produce the seeds.. . . We don't carry hybrids. We feel that food crops . . . should be a common heritage we all share, not a set of trade secrets. . . .

I like their idealism.  :)  I've used hybrid plenty of times. The only thing that has bothered me in the past is that I have to buy seed again the next year. Not that I am an expert seed-saver, but I am working on it! I've never thought about secret parentage issues. What would the worry be? If the parent plants were grown with pesticides? GMO?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on January 23, 2012, 11:20:46 PM

I appreciate the heirlooms because our seed bank is in trouble.  The seed companies are out to make more money at our expense.  We keep losing more and more natural seeds. 

My experience is limited, so I am not an expert, but there are two ideas that come to mind. Hybrids seem to do better at times.  I suppose if we did our study properly, we could find good heirlooms that are not temperamental as mine were the last couple of years.  The hybrids are from my understanding more disease resistant. Some crops like tomatoes, that can make a difference.  On the other hand, when many plant the same hybrid, there is danger the whole crop is wiped out by a new disease. Not so with the heirlooms because each plant is different.

The other idea is that we are not planting for eternity as many are. We are looking for a couple of years at the most when we get down to the end.  So, we can have hybrid seeds for a couple of years and not have to worry about buying seed in the third year. Jesus will come. It is like having the joy of knowing we are not going to run out of oil.  :)    Those who believe the earth will continue for another 2million years are scared to death that their great great great grandchildren will have no oil.  :(   They are afraid that global warming will mean that many cities will be under water in 10,000 years.  :(    We just have to survive a short period of time and then our water and bread will be sure.  :)

So, I am thinking that we do not have to be "purists" in thinking that all has to be heirloom.  I am still trying to work out the cross pollination problem.  Dorine is going to have educate us on this. What we must do so keep our tomatoes from crossing.  It won't effect the crop, but it will show up in the seeds.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on February 17, 2012, 09:19:59 AM

For those in the Northern Hemisphere, it is time for many of us to begin planting our tomato seeds indoors.  I have the seeds, but I am having to look for the time. :)  And how about all those weeds in the garden!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on February 17, 2012, 09:50:41 AM

To keep the tomato seed pure a simple method is to have two garden plots about 20 feet apart with two different kinds of tomatoes with something tall growing between them like mammoth sunflowers. Also if you grow early, mid-season and late season tomatoes close together there should not be any problem with cross pollination as they will blossom at different times.
This year I have 4 different kinds of tomato seed that I will be planting in 4x5 ft. blocks in a long row and I will save a couple of tomatoes from the centre of each block for next years seeds. We do not have many bees here so that may be why I don`t have much problem with cross pollination. I had to order new tomato seeds this year seeing I didn`t get any seeds saved from last years crop.
I`ve kept all my seeds in the refrigerator this year for the first time. It is suppose to extend the life of the seed much longer. I also read that if you freeze them they are good for about 10 - 15 years. Has anyone tried that?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on February 17, 2012, 10:44:23 AM

Dorine, thanks for the information on the heirlooms. Can you post this also in the heirloom thread?  It will be helpful to those who are trying to figure out how to protect their seeds for next year.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on February 17, 2012, 10:45:18 AM

How are your tomatoes getting pollinated? Do you have to help them along?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on February 17, 2012, 01:02:21 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on February 17, 2012, 10:45:18 AM

How are your tomatoes getting pollinated? Do you have to help them along?

Between the wind and the few bees we do have the job gets done. The only time I have to manually pollinate them is in the greenhouse.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on March 02, 2012, 04:58:25 PM

In 1820 a crowd of curious onlookers gathered around the county courthouse in Salem, New Jersey. The county fair was in progress, and they jostled one another in eager anticipation, for they were about to witness a daring feat.
     
    Soon a man appeared on the steps, holding in one hand a piece of poisonous fruit that had been part of the fair's decorations. As he held it up for them to see, members of the crowd whispered excitedly to one another, "Is he really going to eat it?" some asked in disbelief. The man was Colonel Robert Gibbon Johnson- and the fruit was a tomato, called in those days the "love apple" and considered deadly poison.

  Spanish conquistadors brought the first tomato seeds from Peru to Italy. Upon arrival, the Italians believed the heart shaped tomato was an aphrodisiac, thus tomato in Italian is poma amoris or "love apple." Love apples were tokens of courtship or lawn decorations. Young men gave them to their girlfriends, who would afterward wear the seeds in sachets around their necks. The fruit was admired for its beauty, but because of its relation to deadly nightshade, the tomato was regarded as posion by Americans and no one would dream of eating it.

    The crowed gasped in horror as the colonel placed the tomato in his mouth and ate it with apparent relish.

     part II tomorrow!    ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Wally on March 03, 2012, 03:10:07 AM

We all owe a great debt to Colonel Johnson.  8)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on March 03, 2012, 07:20:28 AM

Quote from: Wally on March 03, 2012, 03:10:07 AM

We all owe a great debt to Colonel Johnson.  8)

Myself especially !  Tomato is my favorite food. I love them large and small, raw, cooked, canned,... stewed,... brewed,... and... with almost any kind of food.   However, for me about the only way to ruin a good tomato is to put white sugar on it. Ugh !  :P

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on March 03, 2012, 07:23:43 AM

Part II

  The crowd gasped in horror as the Colonel placed the tomato in his mouth and ate it with apparent relish. They waited breathlessly, expecting soon to see him collapse writhing in dying agony on the courthouse steps … but nothing happened. Instead, praising the color and texture, he ate a second tomato, explaining that tomatoes were delicious either cooked or raw. He then invited the onlookers to join him in his meal, and a few of the braver ones went forward. Soon they too were relishing the tomatoes’ flavor.

  The news spread quickly, and eventually tomatoes became a widely accepted article of diet providing a primary source of minerals and vitamins A and C. Today, the United States grows about 9 million metric tons of tomatoes yearly, and there are more varieties of tomatoes sold than of any other fruit.

   The Bible teaches that the devil is a master of deception in convincing people to fear what is good and to eat what is bad.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on March 03, 2012, 07:29:51 AM

Quote from: Wally on March 03, 2012, 03:10:07 AM

We all owe a great debt to Colonel Johnson.  8)

I think Colonel Sanders was the counter reformation to Colonel Johnson.  ;D

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Marelis on March 03, 2012, 11:12:13 AM

Quote from: colporteur on March 03, 2012, 07:29:51 AM

Quote from: Wally on March 03, 2012, 03:10:07 AM

We all owe a great debt to Colonel Johnson.  8)

I think Colonel Sanders was the counter reformation to Colonel Johnson.  ;D

Great story, Colporteur.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on March 25, 2012, 02:06:24 PM

Has anyone started their tomatoes from seed yet?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on March 25, 2012, 03:36:22 PM

Until I have a greenhouse, I will not be growing tomatoes. Three years of trying at this elevation has proved fruitless.  :(

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Wally on March 25, 2012, 04:43:16 PM

There are many here in Maine who can sympathize with you.  There are many micro climates here in the State.  One person may be able to get a good crop of tomatoes, while their neighbor a few mile away, down in a cold hollow, may be unable to do so.  And those in the "higher" (above 1500') regions are often unable to grow them.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on March 25, 2012, 05:08:46 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on March 25, 2012, 02:06:24 PM

Has anyone started their tomatoes from seed yet?

Yes, I started seed about two weeks ago. It is very early but we are about two months ahead climate wise. I plan to put in potatoes and some onions tomorrow.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Marelis on March 25, 2012, 09:47:04 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on March 25, 2012, 02:06:24 PM

Has anyone started their tomatoes from seed yet?

I have just started heirloom Siberian tomatoes from seed.  This past year I've had success with Russian, Zebra and Broad Ripple tomatoes from seed.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on March 26, 2012, 09:56:17 PM

Wow!!  Siberian, Russian, and Zebra!! If you are successful at seed saving and you get good tomatoes next year, we want one of your seeds!!  :)   God is so good. If I can get one of your seeds, I can produce enough to last me till Jesus comes!!  I think we are on to something.  It is a good thing we have a little time to practice at this!!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 09, 2012, 09:19:51 PM

Just got another important lesson in dealing with heirloom tomatoes.  I have always used my compost with a little moss and or sand to start my seeds indoors. This year I started some heirlooms and have lost many of them. I have never experienced serious damping off until now. I may have caused the problem by placing my seeds in a plastic cover partially covering the cups. I thought the additional moisture would help, but apparently it contributed to the damping off.

It is good to get these lessons out of the way when we still can obtain food elsewhere. Many will be sadly disappointed when they lose their seedlings or their garden plants.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on April 10, 2012, 05:59:37 AM

Sorry to hear that Richard. I've had that happen too and it's disappointing. I only use purchased mixtures for starting seeds now and when the seedlings peek through I take off the coverings and turn a small fan on to circulate the air. I've never had damping off since doing that. There's a bacteria in the soil that causes that. Have you tried planting the seeds in your soil mixture but not covering them and running a fan close by? You'd have to mist the soil frequently. It's interesting that what works for one person doesn't always work for another.

My daughter tried something last year that worked well for her. She used only vermiculite to grow her seeds in and when they had about 2-4 seeds on them they were easy to transplant into pots with soil. I don't think she covered them. Just kept them well misted.

 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on April 10, 2012, 07:00:08 AM

I have found it a good idea if one is not planting a great number of seedlings to plant a second crop, maybe a week or two later. Then if there are any issues you have another attempt. If both crops produce well you can make a friend or neighbor happy by offering them plants. It is nice just to grow them for the sake of exercising the green thumb and if both crops produce well you can keep the choice crop or the one that is timed best for your transplanting.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on April 10, 2012, 10:26:21 AM

I hope none of you mind because this is what I am going to do:

• vicariously enjoy watching the tomato plants all of you are growing
• vicariously enjoy watching them bloom and mature
• Then I will vicariously eat them with you - at your table - with much joy and thanksgiving, taking special note of their full heirloom flavor.

:)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 10, 2012, 09:04:46 PM

:(  Find a sunny place indoors and grow one too. :)

I think the combination did it. I have never covered my seeds in the past and I will never do it again!  :)  They always do well. If it is not broken, do not fix it!!!  :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on April 11, 2012, 03:28:01 AM

Quote from: Dorine on April 10, 2012, 05:59:37 AM

My daughter tried something last year that worked well for her. She used only vermiculite to grow her seeds in and when they had about 2-4 seeds on them they were easy to transplant into pots with soil. I don't think she covered them. Just kept them well misted.

Correction here: it's 2-4 leaves not seeds. I agree with you Richard about not trying to fix something that is not broken. Does this mean you won't have any tomatoes this year?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Marelis on April 11, 2012, 04:25:03 AM

I hope you can still grow some more tomatoes, Br Myers.  Gardening sure is a learning process.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 11, 2012, 12:10:47 PM

Will I have tomatoes this year?  Every year! The deer are always happy!  :)   Yes, I still have time to plant from seed, probably directly in the raised beds.  And, like many others, I will buy plants if it comes to that! Can't imagine going a whole year without a real tomato!!  :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Marelis on April 12, 2012, 07:08:58 AM

Good, so long as you have tomatoes by any means.  Even if I never got to eat a single tomato I'd be satisfied enough just to smell the tomato branches early each morning.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 12, 2012, 08:36:19 AM

Now you have done  it!!  It is not just the food that we are given after our labor, but it is the environment that we are in while we are gardening. It is beautiful and draws us nearer to God. And yes, Marelis, the early morning when there is no hot scorching sun beating down on us, what a joy to work in the garden!! and yes, the smell of the soil and the plants, the fresh morning air, the warm sun, all remind us of the great love that God has for us in providing such comfort and beauty. Thanks for the reminder.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Marelis on April 12, 2012, 11:20:56 AM

Yes, the smell of the earth, the soil, compost and plants is so uplifting.  I love the smell of compost!  And the texture.  I am one of the naughty gardeners who would rather have dirty hands than wear gloves, but am particular not to inhale particles of soil or compost.  For as long as possible I like to be without shoes in the garden, like to feel the dew and grass and mulch under my feet,

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 12, 2012, 12:55:30 PM

Your avatar is most appropriate!  :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Marelis on April 12, 2012, 02:11:01 PM

Ha, not sure about the subtleties of language where you are, Br Myers, but where I am, to be called a bunny or a rabbit is not to be taken as a compliment.  ;D

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on April 12, 2012, 05:33:29 PM

Maybe he meant gardens and rabbits are typically found in the same vicinity.  ;) They, too enjoy barefoot walks in a garden!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Marelis on April 12, 2012, 07:55:49 PM

I was only teasing, Sybil.   ;)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on April 12, 2012, 08:56:15 PM

Oh!  :D  Sorry ...

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 12, 2012, 10:40:03 PM

After awhile, the things of this world seem very foreign. We had two rabbits when they were set free. One little guy did not survive very long, the other is still living. He hops around and has become quite wild. He used to come and get a carrot, but because he is more cautious, he is still alive. The other one was quite tame and just a little pet. To trusting for this world. Like the lamb, the little bunnies do not hurt any creature. But, like deer they tend to want to eat the garden.  :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on July 02, 2012, 07:41:32 PM

Tomtoes are my favorite garden item. This year mine have survived spray drift by the farmers and the grasshoppers. They are 5-6 ft. tall so far (the tomatoes). They should reach twice that or more if I keep the water coming. Today I have run the water for 10 hours at 1000 gal. per hour. The drought is becoming severe. 50% chance of rain these days means the probability of enough sprinkle to settle the dust but that's all.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 02, 2012, 08:54:07 PM

Tell us how you prepared the soil for planting your tomatoes, cp.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on July 03, 2012, 12:24:27 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on July 02, 2012, 08:54:07 PM

Tell us how you prepared the soil for planting your tomatoes, cp.

I didn't do anythng special. If I had the compost I would use that and plenty of it. On top of meeting the basic needs of the plant the key is how they are caged. In a medium climate the tomatoes will grow to 14 ft tall and in a warm climate like down south you can add up to another 6 ft. Most people do not adequately support the plant and it breaks down. Store bought cages are worthless.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 03, 2012, 03:59:41 PM

With so much plant, do the tomatoes suffer?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on July 05, 2012, 02:31:21 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on July 03, 2012, 03:59:41 PM

With so much plant, do the tomatoes suffer?

Not as long as the plant has enough sun, water, and soil fertility. The tomato was never intended to be the dwarf plants we so often see today. The world's most successful tomato grower grew a plant, one plant, that produced 5 bushel of tomatoes. That's about 110 quarts of canned tomatoes. He did it organically. His tallest plant reached 26 ft tall. I expect to reach 13-16 feet tall, that is, If I keep pumping the water to the plants. Since there is more plant and therefore more shaded plant they are sometimes more suspectable to blight. It is best not to spray water on the leaves and to mulch so as to not only hold moisture but to help keep soil born fungus and such off the leaves. One can prune the plant and cut back on some of the less productive growth though I never have done this. The leaves help protect from sunscald.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 05, 2012, 10:19:10 PM

It sounds like you keep the plant watered daily?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on July 06, 2012, 11:00:57 AM

Quote from: Richard Myers on July 05, 2012, 10:19:10 PM

It sounds like you keep the plant watered daily?

Quote from: Richard Myers on July 05, 2012, 10:19:10 PM

It sounds like you keep the plant watered daily?

I don't usually water daily but there should  be good moisture in the ground. In hot, dry weather I water about every other day or so. Today it is currently 101.6 with a feels like of 122 degrees. The tomatoes are growing like crazy. Its a little hard on the fruit which is not shaded.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on July 19, 2012, 05:40:07 PM

CP we have been enjoying the same book.      i never considered that fungus could come in through storms.

he has taken gardening to an almose Eden like sience and art form

proper water - not tap water.

soil preperation the season before planting.

the healthiest seeds of the best varities

creating better and better compost with proper forms of nutrients to support goals all during growth and production

proper support and pruning and management while growing and production

sanitation

harvesting

I hope a second edition that step by step trains more ................... gets created, published and sold.

As I learn    I can try out the techniques in my patio container garden on the tomatoes & peppers.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 19, 2012, 06:25:11 PM

Good! Let us know how it turns out!

By the way, I have the primary materials for a pcv hoophouse and will begin construction soon. :D It will be small this first season until I can figure out what I'm doing, what works and what doesn't. Pray for me. I have never done this!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 19, 2012, 09:50:32 PM

We will. We are just as anxious as you are to see the finished product!

The first ripe tomato will be eaten this coming Sabbath!  Guess where it came from!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on July 24, 2012, 01:27:48 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on July 19, 2012, 09:50:32 PM

We will. We are just as anxious as you are to see the finished product!

The first ripe tomato will be eaten this coming Sabbath!  Guess where it came from!

The first is always the best isn't it. I am currently sitting at a  plate of baked potatoes from the garden as well as garden okra, tomato, and onion in a gumbo type soup. Since the okra loves heat it has been a very good year for them here, best ever. It is currently 4 ft tall and 4ft, wide growing well and I harvest every day. Yesterday I put up some jars of canned okra, tomato, and garlic.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on July 24, 2012, 01:32:10 PM

Ed, do you have a tomato crop this year ?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Marelis on July 27, 2012, 03:28:01 AM

Quote from: colporteur on July 24, 2012, 01:27:48 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on July 19, 2012, 09:50:32 PM

We will. We are just as anxious as you are to see the finished product!

The first ripe tomato will be eaten this coming Sabbath!  Guess where it came from!

The first is always the best isn't it. I am currently sitting at a  plate of baked potatoes from the garden as well as garden okra, tomato, and onion in a gumbo type soup. Since the okra loves heat it has been a very good year for them here, best ever. It is currently 4 ft tall and 4ft, wide growing well and I harvest every day. Yesterday I put up some jars of canned okra, tomato, and garlic.

Sounds wonderful, Colporteur. I've yet to grow okra, have some seeds. We love it cooked Indian-style serve with rice.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on June 17, 2013, 11:31:01 AM

(http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac14/Toy4Vicki/TRO/407c8536-bfa5-4e03-b5ad-53cf353b82a7.jpg) (http://s881.photobucket.com/user/Toy4Vicki/media/TRO/407c8536-bfa5-4e03-b5ad-53cf353b82a7.jpg.html)

We live in a high wind area. This year we have discovered that tomato cages wrapped in plastic are good protection against wind damage, grasshoppers, and give added heat on chilly nights. This plant was one of several of those little 6-pack plants, but now it is the same size as the taller tomato plants purchased in larger buckets which didn't have this protection. The other 6-pack plants that weren't protected which survived are only 1/3 this size. All the tomatoes were planted at the same time.

I think our wind is finally over so it's time to remove the plastic so they can be properly pollinated.


Some cautions:

• If you try covered cages next season, be sure to wrap them firmly and tuck the end of the plastic under the top of the cage or the wind will unwrap them quickly.
• The plants can bake in the heat of the day so leave an open top and make sure they don't get too hot if the temperature soars. I have heard that you can place a board over the top of the cage to trap the heat at night but be sure to remove it when it warms up. We didn't need to try that.
• When watering, if the water doesn't seep under the plastic, make sure you water inside the cage.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: JimB on June 17, 2013, 03:06:22 PM

That seems to be a great solution!. Wind is not something that I'd normally worry about but I've had to deal with it the last week or so. We've two strong thunderstorms move through the area and both times pushed a good portion of my tomatoes, corn, and sunflowers. They were not completely blown over or damaged beyond repair but it's something I didn't anticipate.

Speaking of tomatoes though. My brother put a garden in this year and he's been wanting to eat his tomatoes but he says it seems that the little house wrens that nest near him seem to find the ripe ones every time. Any thoughts on protecting tomatoes from these tomato loving birds?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on June 17, 2013, 04:46:28 PM

I've never had to deal with that. Maybe try bird netting like is used for fruit trees. He might have to put a small structure around the plants. Last year Glen put a few metal fence posts on either side of the pear trees to keep the netting from getting tangled in the limbs. There was enough space at the bottom for a person to get inside. It worked nicely. All he needs, though, is space to lift and reach under without branches getting tangled in netting.

We've had to struggle keeping the corn upright this year, but haven't lost any from wind yet. I can't say the same for an apple tree. We had a huge dust devil blow through, snap off a 5 year old tree at the graft, lift it 15' in the air and drop it about 100' away on top of the garden fence. It turned a nice somersault in the process. I hope I never see that again! It was well-laden with fruit this year, too.  :(

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 16, 2013, 10:13:17 PM

Thanks to Dorine, I am growing heirloom tomatoes again. This time, I have lots of blossoms!!  Not sure why, but I think when I was concerned this year, I stopped watering for a few extra days. They say that this stress can cause blooms.  And, the deer are getting fat on my grapes, they have eaten them all, ate my cherry trees, but they cannot get my tomatoes.  I pulled part of my fence and used the material to just enclose my tomatoes!!  So far, the only thing in the garden area they have eaten is a squash plant and the grapes.

I installed a game camera and I caught them red handed entering in through my driveway. On the way to the garden, they eat my roses and nibble on my citrus trees. And, my row of photinia which lines the front yard is nibbled down where there is no fence. My wife said they need to eat also!  I reminded her one day soon, that if they eat, then we won't.   Will have figured  it out by then!!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 17, 2013, 05:19:28 AM

Those rascals!  :(

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on July 17, 2013, 07:23:07 AM

In most climates if the cages are tall enough the tomatoes will climb to 12-15 feet tall if you poke them back in the cage every couple of days as they tend to grow outward seeking light. I have 8 ft. tall cages made of stainless steel deer fence and stack them two high when living in a climate that will send the tomatoes up that high. North central Michigan is the only place so far that would not grow tomatoes like that. You need to drive steel fence posts (at least 2- 6-8 footers) around the cage  and tie the wire to the post with twine string. If you go higher than 8 ft. you will also need posts (at least three in  a large triangle preferable 4 in a large square pattern)  pounded in out at a distance or the cages under wind and rain will take even the heavy steel fence posts and all right over.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 21, 2013, 12:04:42 PM

I found 3 of these monster worms devouring the top of my tomato plant this morning. They are now in the bellies of some guineas.

(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/TROPhotobucket/Gardenwormsjuly212013001_zpse3328b5b.jpg) (http://s587.photobucket.com/user/TROPhotobucket/media/Gardenwormsjuly212013001_zpse3328b5b.jpg.html)

Question: where do these creatures come from? They are larger than my fingers and I have large hands.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 21, 2013, 03:08:43 PM

I have since discovered they are horn worms. I think Vicki or someone else discussed them. What destructive pests. This will necessitate a close examination of the plants twice a day. These came on rather quickly. 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 21, 2013, 03:21:35 PM

Yep, it was Vicki, Dora, Richard, et. al.  :)

http://remnant-online.com/smf/index.php?topic=8219.msg120455#msg120455

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 21, 2013, 04:05:33 PM

They are not as bad as deer. Instead of devouring your tomatoes in one night, they take two nights!! 

There is a method to finding the critters. You look for their black droppings. When you find them, look directly up. They blend in with the plants so much that they are hard to see.  I practice prevention also. I think it is a white moth or butterfly that lays the eggs. I am not so gracious as I am with the deer. When I see them in the garden, I go after them with the hose. Generally I can knock them down with the water, then drown them.  :)   It is either them or the tomatoes!!  I choose life for the tomatoes. Those pesky vegans just have to go.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 21, 2013, 07:01:02 PM

Googling YouTube, it is also said a black light will illuminate them so they are easily seen. The droppings are the same color as the soil, so that won't work. They appear to have been on only one plant but I will keep an eye out.

Bottom line: we have not come thus far to have the fruit of our labor devoured by such an ugly creature. One of the YouTube videos also suggested getting organic BT for spray and for the soil because they burrow and morph into the large moth. That is also where they lay their eggs.

Now, the wasp will lay its eggs on these worms and the larvae literally consumes them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcBgBKv8818

"Nature" isn't so nice, is it? 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 21, 2013, 08:26:41 PM

some of the droppings end up on the ground, but often I find them on the leaves and stems. I have  found that is the easiest way to find them. They are so well disguised. :(

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 21, 2013, 09:33:40 PM

I'll keep a lookout. Thanks!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on July 22, 2013, 03:56:01 PM

This thread says tomatoes, so here is a pic of today's pickens. Did I mention I love maters? God has been good
 (http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o695/kyud8/P1240248_zps2d837950.jpg)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 22, 2013, 04:33:42 PM

Wow! Beautiful, Mark!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 22, 2013, 06:31:18 PM

Wow!!  Mind if we stop by?  :)   I have yet to pick  a real one yet.  Only a few cherry tomatoes. But, soon!! Not as many as you have and not the variety. I notice a lot of canning jars, Mark. Are you going to can a lot of the tomatoes? From someone who has yet to eat one of those good ones, it would be sad to see them canned!!  :(  Are some of them canning tomatoes?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on July 22, 2013, 09:56:06 PM

Richard, those jars are filled with green beans. Got them canned and just haven't found time to put them in the cellar.  I haven't canned any tomatoes yet and sorry to hear you are waiting for your first big ones. Maybe I shouldn't say that I have been picking since the 8th day of June. I have been saving seed out of the first ones that pollinated so as to have plenty of seed. Then I will start canning for I have a few hundred jars washed and waiting to be utilized.  Been saving so many seeds that I actually been eating tomatoes for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for some are quite tasty and we would not want the leftovers wasted ;D I do give tomatoes away at church and use them like a ministry, for I share them with the neighbors too.

Will share seeds from the real tasty ones with all on here that would be interested this fall. For God created them for us all to enjoy. And as well He has been sending some very timely rain, so figured what He has blessed me with, should be shared so others can be blessed. Have a real lovely purple tomato that is just an exquisite example of what a tomato should be. Just a fine hunk of melt in your mouth tomato flesh. I best not post a pic of it for you might start drooling on your keyboard Richard ;D

Every morning I go out to my garden and look around and can't help but be amazed at how great God is. Seems like when we do our part, we can just step back and watch Him do His. God bless all your gardening efforts. Mark

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on July 23, 2013, 05:59:38 AM

Well Richard said he could handle a few pics of a few ripe tomatoes, so I will post a few for all to enjoy. Richard said to me, a picture is worth a thousand words and I imagine that is true. I know it is true when you go ant sale plants and seeds. Hope you enjoy.

This first one is the purple one I mentioned earlier.  For my taste buds, they don't get much better then this. Great sweet/acid balance in a melt in your mouth, deep dark tomato package. 
 (http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o695/kyud8/nps_zps9114ffb6.jpg)

Another fine looking tomato specimen is this lovely bicolor. Again a great taste in a different package with lots of eye appeal. This one tipped the scale at over a pound and a half.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o695/kyud8/N-14bicolor1_zps21984303.jpg)

One more to feast your eyes on is a GWR  (green when ripe) variety. Actually this is a bicolor as well, but yet still packs more great taste with lots of eye appeal, and lots of juice to dribble down your chin Richard  ;D
 (http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o695/kyud8/N14GWR14_zps3761dc41.jpg)

Hope you enjoy the pics, for I can say I definitely enjoyed eating them. You look at all the colors, shapes and tastes there are in just tomatoes, and it makes me wonder what the creative possibilities will be when we reach the earth made new.  Richard I will have to invite you over when that time comes and we will be able to create a few new ones together.  Mark

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on July 23, 2013, 06:22:07 AM

Wow! Wonderful!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on July 23, 2013, 07:00:19 AM

Mark do you mail seed to Nova Scotia Canada? I would love to have seeds from the tomatoes you have posted. What are their names? Our planting season is short compared to yours. Mine are just developing. The largest is about the size of a golf ball. I plant a beefstake called Cherokee Purple that has a wonderful flavour. I'm always looking for new ones to try. I look for short season and great taste.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 23, 2013, 09:31:22 AM

Quote from: Mark W on July 22, 2013, 09:56:06 PM

Every morning I go out to my garden and look around and can't help but be amazed at how great God is. Seems like when we do our part, we can just step back and watch Him do His. God bless all your gardening efforts. Mark

Amen!!  I love to watch my garden grow! It always amazes me what God has given us. Slowly but surely the fruit appears and matures. There are so many spiritual lessons that all point to the love God has for His creatures.  Amid the trials and temptations of every day life, God gives us evidence of His love and power. Those who tend a garden have the joy of seeing this daily.

Thanks for sharing, Mark.  God is blessing you indeed!  And...us through you!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on July 26, 2013, 08:11:42 AM

While we are on the subject of tomatoes, some might enjoy this article. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=44 (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=44)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: JimB on July 26, 2013, 06:38:54 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on July 23, 2013, 09:31:22 AM

Amen!!  I love to watch my garden grow! It always amazes me what God has given us. Slowly but surely the fruit appears and matures. There are so many spiritual lessons that all point to the love God has for His creatures.  Amid the trials and temptations of every day life, God gives us evidence of His love and power. Those who tend a garden have the joy of seeing this daily.

Now I know I"m not the only one who does this. Since this is the first year I've done a garden this is all new to me. I don't have much time in the morning to inspect the garden but in evening I love going out and just staring at and marking it's growth. Just being out there seems to cause one to relax and yes there are so many spiritual lessons.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on July 27, 2013, 07:54:08 PM

JimB, great to here that you decided to grow a garden this year. As you have probably learned and many of the rest of us know, it can be hard work, challenging and yet at the same time rewarding. Great to hear you are loving you garden and are being blessed by it in a way I believe God intended it to be. It thrills my heart to here stories of those that are stepping out for the first time and partnering with God in the growing of a garden. As well it is great to see you have discovered some of the rewards God give us when we till the soil. Keep us posted of your results physically and spiritually.   

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on September 03, 2013, 08:31:36 AM

What will tomatoes taste like in heaven if heirloom homegrown are so good on earth? I cannot imagine! Even the best organics from the grocer cannot match the flavor of the common Roma or German Stripe. Wow!  Ever so slowly my tomatoes are ripening and make that short trip to the kitchen to be sliced up and devoured.

My harvest may amount to only a dozen tomatoes, but each one is cherished and blest before being blissfully consumed! 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on September 03, 2013, 09:50:25 AM

Quote from: Mimi on September 03, 2013, 08:31:36 AM

What will tomatoes taste like in heaven if heirloom homegrown are so good on earth? I cannot imagine! Even the best organics from the grocer cannot match the flavor of the common Roma or German Stripe. Wow!  Ever so slowly my tomatoes are ripening and make that short trip to the kitchen to be sliced up and devoured.

My harvest may amount to only a dozen tomatoes, but each one is cherished and blest before being blissfully consumed!

All I can say is "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. " We can't even imagine. But we do know they will be really really good! And I don't think there will be just one kind, for in a perfect world we all will have a garden, imagine that. And with all the friendly little bees will come new tomato crosses. And as well in a perfect world we will not find any spitters in the bunch, but just lovely, succulent, melt in your mouth, perfect to the taste mater flesh of exquisite shape, color, and beauty. In my imagination I see where we can be the bee as well and make varieties that are endless. Just think, maybe I will invite you over when we get settled in to our new home on this earth  and we can play with a few mater blossoms together. You can bring over a blooming cutting from your best tasting mater, and plant it beside my best, and see what we can make. If you like my favorite then I will gladly give you a sprig off it for your garden as well. It will be nice to know that they will never die and just think about shelf life!!! After a million years, them maters in the fruit bowl will still be great. Never hearts to dream.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on September 03, 2013, 10:13:09 AM

LOL

I accept your invitation, Mark!  ;D Thank you!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on September 03, 2013, 12:39:55 PM

Amen!! Now, there is a thought about heaven that has never entered my mind until today!! Won't that be  fun!! Our minds will continue to expand and knowledge will keep coming!  Imagine a tomato in heaven!! Thanks for the vision, Mark!!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on September 03, 2013, 12:40:22 PM

Quote from: Mimi on September 03, 2013, 08:31:36 AM

What will tomatoes taste like in heaven if heirloom homegrown are so good on earth? I cannot imagine! Even the best organics from the grocer cannot match the flavor of the common Roma or German Stripe. Wow!  Ever so slowly my tomatoes are ripening and make that short trip to the kitchen to be sliced up and devoured.

My harvest may amount to only a dozen tomatoes, but each one is cherished and blest before being blissfully consumed!

Amen!  Mine are finally ripening also. I will never plant only heirlooms again. They take longer to mature. I planted a few hybrids, but they did not do well for some reason. But, then we had problems in the spring and I did not plant until the end of May. Never again. I used to put tomatoes in the ground in April. I am back to that no matter what. If I lose some, I lose them. But, I am not going to wait until September for fresh tomatoes again.  :) 

It is a blessing to have these heirlooms. They are delicious and they are large.  I will post a picture when I get time.  The vines are the nicest vines I have ever had. But, remember our first venture into heirlooms, Mimi?  We had gorgeous plants and no tomatoes. It was because of the vigor of the vines and I believe I gave them too much water. I stressed these and then they started producing blooms. I think Mark suggested that.

It is very strange this year. I am not sure why, but I have not had one hornworm yet. Not one. All of the plants are healthy and I have had no problems with anything except late maturity. I think next year to get early tomatoes, I will plant an indoor plant in a five gallon container. I got real hungry for tomatoes this year and the wait was killing me.  When I saw Jim's 33 tomatoes all red and ripe, I had a tinge of desire.  :)  God surely blessed his garden!   Now is the time to be learning. The days ahead will be difficult for all who are prepared. For others who rejected Bible prophecy and counsel, they will find it much more difficult. Famine is coming to America. That will effect the whole world.  If one is living in the country and can grow their own food, they will be blessed. If their ability to grow food is not yet learned, then what? 

And while we are on this subject, God has provided technology that will be of help. A few solar panels will come in handy if you like electricity.  It appears that the price of things will be going up. Now is a good time to purchase a few even if they are used.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on September 04, 2013, 04:34:11 PM

 :'(  We had a rain and wind storm yesterday and my tomatoes are in bad shape. Too much rain all at once and they are all cracking and now I see small soft spots forming before they are ripe enough to really be picking. I think starting next year I will have to depend on my greenhouse for most of my tomatoes. Our weather here is so unpredictable and tomatoes are so touchy when it comes to water. One good thing that came from this storm is SEAWEED that washed up on the shore. Got next years supply gathered and in a pile. Then hubby tripped on a stump when dumping the seaweed, fell against a huge bolder and badly skinned the full length of both arms. It could have been much worse and we are thanking God for His mercies.  :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on September 04, 2013, 05:14:47 PM

We are  indeed thankful even when in great trial. God loves us and promises that all of these "bad" things will work for our good. If nothing else, it reminds us of how much we need our Jesus! We are thankful that your husband is ok. The skin will heal quickly with your good diet and clean air!

It is nice to have a well built greenhouse to depend upon. I am sure thankful for your encouragement, Dorine, to try heirlooms again.  I am eating them daily now. Just had an avocado tomato sandwich for dinner. It was not only a beautiful large tomato, it was very very delicious!!  They are slow to maturity, but worth it. I have never had such a beautiful crop of tomatoes. Looking forward to sharing them with the neighbors.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on September 05, 2013, 05:42:43 AM

That avocado and tomato sandwich is making my gastric juices sing. We haven't had our breakfast yet so that gives me an idea. I'm hoping that the green tomatoes that are left will not be affected and we will end up with a nice crop in spite of wind and rain. We refuse to let the enemy discourage us but I have to say we suffered with some disappointment. Some of the cracked ones were ripe enough to eat so now I'm wondering if they would be ok to save seed from. I am going to experiment with a paper towel and see if they will germinate (after I've soaked them a few days). I am truly hooked on heirloom tomatoes because as you said Richard they are delicious. Last evening I ate one of the Cherokee Purple that had badly split and had soft spots and it was salubrious even though it was not fully ripe. So much to learn. I think the Lord is using these good times to teach us many things so that when times are very difficult and we won't have a back up we will be prepared.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on September 07, 2013, 08:34:12 PM

Yes, that is the attitude to have, Dorine. We are to glory in our trials. They do work for our good. We are gaining an experience that prepares us for the trials to come. And, that experience includes the patience we learn in the midst of the trial.  :)

"Salubrious", now that is a word I have not heard for some time. It must be the condition of the world. But, it is a very good description of an heirloom tomato when being masticated in ones mouth. Especially when contemplating the flavor of the last store bought tomato one sadly ate. I think that most would agree, that there  is nothing more salubrious than the flavor of a good ripe homegrown heirloom tomato! And God has put it into our hands to bless others!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on September 10, 2013, 06:44:40 PM

I need advice on what to do with unripened tomatoes on the vine when they meet consistently cold air. I have five plants and they are loaded with golf-ball size fruit. We are experiencing very cool weather and it is doubtful they will have a chance to ripen.

Do I cover them and wait it out or pull the plants and hang them until ripe? 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on September 10, 2013, 07:28:28 PM

Here is some good information on ripening tomatoes when the weather cools. I have never had very good success at getting a green tomato ripe off the vine. Golf ball size would seem to indicate that the fruit has not matured in size yet. If so, I would leave them in the garden and hope that they can mature. Pruning some of the plant can help send nutrition to the fruit. Removing some of the fruit will help also. source (http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/4dmg/VegFruit/ripening.htm)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on September 11, 2013, 04:02:26 AM

Good advice! Thank you! I will prune and cover.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on September 12, 2013, 09:15:56 PM

I have been canning  tomatoes. I often use a pressure cooker because I tend to get a better seal in in half the time. This year however, I seem to be breaking quite a few jars. I pressure then at 10 pounds for 15 minutes. I wonder since many of the jars are up to approximately 100 years old if their is a fatigue factor in play. I realize that pressuring the jars puts more stress on them than hot water bathing. Another possibility might be that the pressure gauge is not accurate anymore and I might be pressuring them higher than what the gauge reads. Sometimes the pressure builds to 12-13 lbs. before I get it backed off as it is not always easy to keep the pressure right at 10 lbs. Since gauges do not usually malfunction I'm thinking this is just jar fatigue. My last batch today was 5 jars and 2 broke.  It is a bit frustrating because you lose the tomatoes, lose the jar, and have a mess to clean up. Maybe I will back the pressure off a bit.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on September 17, 2013, 08:25:17 PM

Quote from: colporteur on September 12, 2013, 09:15:56 PM

I have been canning  tomatoes. I often use a pressure cooker because I tend to get a better seal in in half the time. This year however, I seem to be breaking quite a few jars. I pressure then at 10 pounds for 15 minutes. I wonder since many of the jars are up to approximately 100 years old if their is a fatigue factor in play. I realize that pressuring the jars puts more stress on them than hot water bathing. Another possibility might be that the pressure gauge is not accurate anymore and I might be pressuring them higher than what the gauge reads. Sometimes the pressure builds to 12-13 lbs. before I get it backed off as it is not always easy to keep the pressure right at 10 lbs. Since gauges do not usually malfunction I'm thinking this is just jar fatigue. My last batch today was 5 jars and 2 broke.  It is a bit frustrating because you lose the tomatoes, lose the jar, and have a mess to clean up. Maybe I will back the pressure off a bit.

Colporteur, I would strongly advise you to take your canner lid to your nearest county extension office and have then check and see if it is properly working. People have been know to be killed or seriously hurt because the gauge malfunctioned. Actually I think they say to check them every year. I have never used a pressure cooker for tomatoes before so can't give any advise. Water bath seems just fine to me but i like tomatoes with a little kick that aids in canning. I have been canning spaghetti and pizza sauce the last couple weeks and they have been sealing as I pull them out of their water bath.  Sounds like you were blessed with a good harvest. Mark

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on September 26, 2013, 02:13:17 PM

From Accuweather: HARD FREEZES ARE POSSIBLE ACROSS THE NORTHERN AND WESTERN MOUNTAINS

That is for tomorrow night through the weekend, so I give up. Goatman saw the forecast and said he would help me put the huge (huge for these parts) tomato plants in pots and move them into the heated workroom. They are loaded with German Stripe and Zebras, along with Romas. We have been enjoying them for the last two weeks, so the only merciful thing to do was move them. Last week a hard frost killed the remaining summer squash, so I am left with the glorious kale, purple kale, chard, broccoli, Butter and purple lettuce. I am still very, very happy. 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on September 26, 2013, 06:11:08 PM

:)  You are indeed blessed!  We can't grow broccoli and lettuce this time of the year and the deer decimated by kale and collards!! 

Next year, you will get your tomatoes further along indoors so they produce earlier.  We are all learning! Start a cherry tomato to keep in your south window during the winter. Put the grow light on it when the sun goes down. I just found an orange tree they say will grow indoors!!  :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on September 26, 2013, 06:48:22 PM

Wow! That is an advancement!

Richard, you should really consider acquiring another dog.  ;) It would not allow a deer in your yard. It seems you have fought the deer long enough.

Yes, next year I plan on growing cherry tomatoes, too. This year gave us a great experience and we caught the gardening bug. A neighbor and I are going to scout the north country to inquire of greenhouses and/or hoophouses. That is our next step. 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on September 26, 2013, 07:57:00 PM

Mark;

Pressure cookers are harder on the jars because of the pressure. I am finding that when I do not crowd the lid by overfilling the jars it works better  Not  enough head space seems to create more pressure in the jar. I have not noticed any difference in taste or consistancy between water bathing and pressuring and the tomatoes. What I like about pressuring is you get a better seal ratio and it only takes about 1/3 of the time appropriately. I am done canning for the season accept for potatoes. I have found that to pressure cook potatoes with Italian herbs, home made vegan chicknish seasoning and onions etc.. is a real blessing. At times when I do not have time to scrub and cook potatoes I can just open a jar and warm them. Accept for the old pressure cookers there is a rubber blow plug as a safety feature. You are right though, it is still a good idea to have the gauge checked.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Vicki on October 12, 2013, 08:12:59 PM

Quote from: Dorine on October 03, 2013, 03:05:31 PM

Does anyone grow Ground Cherries? I always have several plants in the garden.

The organic gardener down the street grows them; that's where we had our first taste. I tried growing them the next year, but I got them started too late. I need to try them again since son loves them.

Do you preserve them in any way for winter use or eat them as they ripen?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on October 12, 2013, 08:29:29 PM

Ground Cherries? Are  they grown in the ground? A root crop?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Wally on October 13, 2013, 03:04:10 AM

They aren't really cherries, but are related to tomatoes.  They grow low to the ground, and are also called "husk tomatoes," because of the papery covering over the fruit, which turns brown when they are ripe.  They are about the size of a small cherry tomato, but are sweeter.  My kids won't eat regular tomatoes, but they like the husk tomatoes.  We had a lousy crop this year because of all the rain.  :-[  But the rain produced my best potato crop in years.  :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on October 13, 2013, 11:51:16 PM

Ground cherries are a North American wild tomatillo the birds usually plant them and they have a earthy sweet complex flavor like a tomato with a touch of cane sorghum syrup and a tiny hint of starfruit after taste, they are yellow orange when ripe and reseed themselves quite well.   I always liked them.  farmers consider them a weed, but they would be very prolific in good garden soil.  fruit is small from marble to doughroller size usually.  Until ripe have a green tomato tang with their own complex flavor.  They might make good sauce or salsa - where ever ripe tomatillos are used.

I ran across ground cherry salsa , pie, sauce, preserves - on Google.

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/EFSutton/Gardens/DSC00746.jpg)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/EFSutton/Gardens/DSC00745.jpg)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/EFSutton/Gardens/2800897265_79eef966d9.jpg)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/EFSutton/Gardens/GroundCherryPie-1.jpg)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on October 14, 2013, 05:01:45 AM

I have those growing on the terraces below the swale, Ed, and did not have a clue! Thanks for the photo.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on October 18, 2013, 12:44:47 PM

Wow Ed, I have ate a few for they do grow wild around here, but never seen them in a pie! Interesting to hear about the pies taste.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on October 22, 2013, 12:41:56 PM

We have had 22 degree nights so I pulled and potted the tomato plants before the freeze and placed them in the heated workroom.  Many tomatoes were yet to ripen. Life got busy and I rarely checked on them and certainly did not water them because they were on the way out. Much to my happy surprise, I harvested several bowls of fabulous little tomatoes before recycling the plants in the mulch pile. Although I did not have a large crop, my heart considered it a great year to be repeated in the spring.  :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: JimB on April 27, 2014, 09:02:51 AM

This year I'm doing a different variety of tomatoes. However, I'm wondering can I plant two different varieties of tomatoes in the same garden...ie... do I need to worry about cross-pollination with tomatoes?  I never would have thought about this until someone recently told me that I need to be careful with my corn cross pollinating with the filed of corn near by so i'm wondering if this is a concern for tomatoes also?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on April 27, 2014, 12:52:14 PM

I plant 6 different kinds of tomatoes in my plot of 4 ft. by 20 ft. and I've never had a problem with cross pollination. I plant in blocks of 6 plants and take the ripest from the middle of my block. I do that with each block. It's the same with beans. Now corn and most other plants are entirely different. It's best to plant only one kind unless you have a large garden. I'm sure Mark our expert gardener  :) could help you with this.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: JimB on April 27, 2014, 06:34:53 PM

Dorine, this is good to know. I really appreciate your post. :)  I will continue my other question in another thread so we can keep this one about tomatoes.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 27, 2014, 07:23:33 PM

Jim, cross-pollination in our garden in most cases is not a problem, unless we are saving seeds. The one exception that I can think of, is corn. If cross-pollination occurs with most crops the fruit or vegetable is not affected. Corn is the exception, cross-pollination will affect the current crop. If you are growing heirloom tomatoes, then you need to be concerned if you are going to save seeds. Tomatoes have both male and female in the same flower, but an insect could bring pollen from another tomato. As Doreen has suggested, planting the same variety in a block and saving the seed from the center plant helps to protect the seed. Or, you can bag a flower to keep insects out.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on April 28, 2014, 06:08:34 AM

If you live in an area where there are a lot of bees or other bugs then I can see it being a problem. We don't. (mostly black flies and mosquitoes ugh!) I have been saving tomato seeds for several years now and they always come true so maybe it's the lack of bees that has helped. I'm trying to build up my bee population by planting more bee loving plants. So my success may change as more bees arrive.  Richards suggestion is an excellent one of picking out some blossoms and covering them. We have a lot of wind in our area and I find that even before the bug has found my tomato blossom the wind has already done the job.

My tomatoes are struggling this year. We are having a terribly cold damp spring and it is playing havoc on everything even in the greenhouse. The temp's go down to freezing each night and then if I'm not careful to watch the greenhouse temp's can go up to over 100 degrees. This past Sabbath turned out to be a beautiful sunny day and when we got home from church I had lost many of my new tomato seedlings. It was 110 degrees and the soil totally dry. When we left in the morning it was too cold, wet and windy to open the doors. All I can do is trust that God will multiply my fruit come harvest time.

One kind of tomato I had 10 lovely healthy seedlings when I left for church and when I got home there were three left and one of them was drooping. I watered them all and the third one has revived. I am now going to plant those three deep and together to get strong roots on them and let them grow up producing lots of arms making up for the loss of the others. I have lots of other kinds of tomato seedlings that have survived but these were special ones.

I think the devil hates it when I am in the greenhouse because he knows it's a very special time between God and I. Last week I had transplanted a whole tray of tomatoes into larger containers and they were doing wonderful. One night was going to be very cold so I took them inside. When taking them back out the next morning I tripped as I was going through the door to the greenhouse and "we" all went flying. I gently picked "us" all up again and replanted them but I have lost half of them. It was just too much trauma for them. These were seeds that my daughter had given me but didn't know the name of them. All she knew is that they were a beefsteak heirloom and very delicious.

Well that's my tomato woes for this year so far. I know there are lessons in all that happens and I know that God has an intense interest in everything we do. It will all work out according to His will if we are doing our part.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 07, 2014, 08:04:18 PM

Amen, Doreen.  Satan is at work, but God allows our trials and turns the devil's effort to good. "All things work together" for our good as we abide in Christ.  My delayed planting has caused me to lose a lot of seedlings also. God knows. We are His witnesses when things go well and even more when things go bad.  You and your garden are in my prayers.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on May 08, 2014, 06:28:30 AM

Thank you Richard. We all need the prayes of each other. I certainly appreciate knowing that prayers are being said for me. It's interesting that the lessons I learn from one year's gardening mistakes don't apply to the next year's. There are always new and different challenges. That is probably very good because we will know how to handle each challenge when needed most because we have already had to deal with it.

I have since kept all my tomato seedlings under grow lights inside and they are doing great. Even the ones that flew everywhere when I tripped. They needed the warmth and protection to revive them. Now they are ready to transplant again and harden off but the weather is still too cold at night. Light frost last night.

What happened to your tomato plants? Why did the delay cause a problem? I know your climate is very different from ours. Was it too hot and dry? Do you find some kinds more fragile than others? One thing I did notice this year was the seeds that came from Californa I had to baby along. It will take a couple of years of growing them here and saving the seed to toughen them up for our climate. But I'm happy with the results none the less.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 08, 2014, 07:31:14 AM

You can hurry up your seedlings considerably by applying constant bright light, heat (90 degrees) and make sure they are in pots big enough so as not to hold them back. While lighting is good there is nothing like the sun. I set mine out in the sun when it is bright and the temps are 60 degrees or higher. I cut production time in half by doing this not fully realizing how fast they wee growing. They were 16 inches tall when I planted them out in the garden and I planted then 2 weeks earlier than I wanted to. I think they will be alright however a couple had stems that rotted. It did not freeze but many nights got down in the high 30's and low 40s. Tomatoes are pretty durable but they can take only so much chill.

Life wise you can put your plants on hold for a couple of weeks with cooler temps and less light. It's best that they are nice and healthy when you do this or else they will suffer.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 09, 2014, 10:16:46 PM

I have too many to put into larger pots. They needed to be planted, but I was not ready.  And, the temps and moisture changed radically.  90 degree days to low 50 nights with having to water in the days.  They do not like wet feet and cold nights. Also, with so many, I had to use overhead water. not good. I have 400 plants. Have the irrigation done, and almost finished with fencing and  ground prep.  Other things keep popping up, preventing me from finishing up.  :(  Some are doing better than others. As you say, there is a lesson in this for us. We are learning as we go. 

Yes, cp, I actually moved some of my seedlings back  under artificial light and heat because of the cool nights. The days have been hot, but the nights cold. Cold wet soil has caused a loss of some.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 10, 2014, 08:34:21 PM

I have had my tomatoes out in the garden now for over three weeks. It has not froze but most nights have been from 36-45 degrees. I have lost a few as the stems just rotted. Tomatoes are tough but they are not invincible. I am replanting a few and purchased a few more from the store as replacements if necessary. It is becoming increasingly profitable to grow your own. 5 dozen plants at $6.00 a plant for plants that size adds up. I experimented this year and instead of laying my tall plants down in a trench I planted them deep and straight up and down since the topsoil is 12 inches deep. I don't think that was a good idea because the first 4 inches of soil warmers a lot faster  than the deeper soil.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 13, 2014, 07:12:31 PM

What are your temps now?  Our days are 90+     Fried some of my seedlings.  :(

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on May 14, 2014, 05:29:16 AM

I haven't been out to the greenhouse to check on my transplants yet this morning but last night it went down below freezing. Our high's are your low's Richard. In the greenhouse the temperature difference is even worse. Up in the 90's during the day and then down in low 30's - 40's at night. Such a critical time of the year for gardening.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 14, 2014, 09:07:17 AM

Our temps are about seasonal accept  the highs are a tad bit on the low side. We have lows of 35-45 at night and highs of 50-70.  When we have a streak of several days with highs of 45-50 with clouds and wind it is hard on the tomatoes. I was losing three of  my tomatoes  in the garden with a stalk rot. I pulled them up and trimmed  them off  up where they were healthy and repotted them and put them in intensive care inside with bright light and 80+ degree temps. They  rooted back out like champs in just a few days. I did not realize until recently that they would do that.  I will replant them out in the garden in a week or two. When it stays cold and wet the plants look blighty. I think they will take off and turn dark green as soon as the weather shapes up. We need lows of 50-55  and highs of 70-90 degrees.

The past few years I have one with heirloom but have not been impressed with production or quality.  This year I have reverted back to hybrids one heirloom. Big Zak is an heirloom that is the world record holder for size. The record is something like 7 lbs.  Better Boy is  my favorite producer. Nice large round tomatoes with heavy production. Beefmaster is interesting as it is two tomatoes combined. Often they are deformed but when the blend is complete you can end up with a nice big tomato. I have a few Celebrity this  year and Martino's Roma. For cherry tomatoes my favorites are Orange Paruche Hybrid first and then Sungold Hrbrid  and Sweet 100. Last year I planted the Black Cherry heirloom. It has a very interesting taste and an unusually soft texture. We tend to can a lot of tomatoes and was getting very low production with the heirlooms. I like to have 300 or more quarts on reserve.

What varieties do others prefer when it comes to good production, quality, and taste  ? 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on May 14, 2014, 09:15:42 AM

How big were your plants colporteur? I have some that were healthy but small that are drooped over today from the cold last night. I don't know if there is enough stalk to do what you did. So far I've lost about 13 plants out of a total of about 200.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 14, 2014, 09:29:48 AM

Quote from: Dorine on May 14, 2014, 09:15:42 AM

How big were your plants colporteur? I have some that were healthy but small that are drooped over today from the cold last night. I don't know if there is enough stalk to do what you did. So far I've lost about 13 plants out of a total of about 200.

They were 14 inches tall. However I only salvaged about 5-6 inches. The top has to be reasonably  healthy yet. If the top is wilted and darkened you  probably lost them. I don't think you need much top as long as it is healthy still. Of course,  they will be set back a bit. A nice soft potting mix and plenty of moisture is helpful. I don't know  if this works with both determinite  and indeterminate plants. It is working great with my Better Boys. My replants are a few days old. They have not grown yet but they have a good root system already. The replanting is only beneficial in cases where a worm has eaten through the stalk, it has been broken off, or like in my case the stalk rotted below do to extended cold. As you know, you can bury a tomato plant/stem right up to just below the very top growing point. I like that about tomatoes. They come back stronger with more roots and they are much less effected by the wind. I see people all the time plant a tomato with 6-8" up in the air and the winds wails on them. Buckets, preferably black are also helpful to protect from cut worms and from wind whip. Even adding a thick layer of lawn clippings around the plant not only retains moisture but it heats (through fermentation) so for a couple of days or so it creates some added heat around the plant. I tend to bury the plant fairly deeply in the clippings. That too protects from wind whip.

It sounds like you have top damage frost bite. I would just see if they come back now that the day is here. If your plants are in the green house I would consider putting a small electric heater out there that kicks on when it gets chilly ?  It will only have to raise the temp a few degrees and they will love for it.  ;D

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on May 14, 2014, 01:14:45 PM

Yup! I lost them. Thankfully they weren't all from the same kind. This is really my fault. I knew it was going to be very cold last night but because the day was so beautiful I transplanted them anyway. (just into bigger pots in the greenhouse, not outside) It doesn't pay to be too anxious. I KNOW that. All the rest are doing just fine so I guess I shouldn't feel bad over a few. I hate to see any loss. Thanks for the tips.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 14, 2014, 09:25:59 PM

I fried some seedlings outdoors.  we have 95 and 65 temps.   Got hot.

Dorine, if you get some water in the green house, it will absorb the heat in the day and release it at night. gallon jugs, 5 gal buckets, or 40 gallon barrels.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 15, 2014, 06:11:12 AM

  Yes, it is helpful if  we can harden off the seedlings before transplanting them. They need some direct sun and a breeze to toughen them in. It helps too if we can provide some shade if need be after they are transplanted  and it is very hot and sunny. Even a cedar shingle stuck in beside the plant, as shade can make a big different.

We covered all the tomatoes last night that we had rugs and blankets for. Hopefully the uncovered ones had enough heat from ground to ward off a freeze. I have not checked them yet. The forecast was for 33 degrees. Tonight it is supposed to be a couple of degrees warmer and then we are out of the woods.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on May 15, 2014, 07:13:43 AM

Just checked on mine in the greenhouse. Some are going to pull through that I thought were finished but will be set back. All in all I've lost 15.  I do have lots of water in 5 gal. buckets in the greenhouse. Maybe I would have lost them all had it not been for them. And yes shade is essential for those fragile transplants. I'm afraid that some of mine got too much sun during the day.

Today I will get my lettuce transplanted and the rest of the tomatoes along with the rest of my peas, carrots, beets and swiss chard. My daughter is on her way over to help and tells me she has many more tomato plants to bring over that she has started inside so it sounds like we will be ok. We want to sell some plants and then tomatoes later in the summer as they ripen to off set the cost of purchased soil and pots. Of course we give away lots to neighbours and family. It's all a lot of work but so rewarding and enjoyable.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 15, 2014, 09:22:17 AM

 You may not have a small immersible tank heater but if you do hang it in one of the buckets. You can heat the water all night and add more heat.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 18, 2014, 04:45:31 PM

 We had a hard freeze Thursday night of 28 degrees that knocked off 3/4 of my tomatoes. None of the one's uncovered survived and part  of those covered got nailed. All the potatoes froze but that's not a problem as they come back. Of course all the cabbage type plants, onions and peas made it. Fortunately I have a reserve supply of plants indoors and purchased some more from the green house. We should be good to go from here on out with lows  in the 50's.

Some of the farmers had soybeans that were just breaking the crust of the ground when it froze. If the frost would have came a day later or the beans came up a day earlier they would have been history. That would have been an expensive proposition. I think they were crazy for planting beans that early. I suppose with all the crop insurance they are bold. Of course corn can freeze off when it is small and be ok.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 19, 2014, 11:08:55 AM

Sorry to hear of your loss, cp. It is a blessing that God has provided so many seeds for replanting!!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Wally on May 20, 2014, 03:55:50 AM

Quote from: colporteur on May 18, 2014, 04:45:31 PM

We had a hard freeze Thursday night of 28 degrees that knocked off 3/4 of my tomatoes. None of the one's uncovered survived and part  of those covered got nailed. All the potatoes froze but that's not a problem as they come back. Of course all the cabbage type plants, onions and peas made it. Fortunately I have a reserve supply of plants indoors and purchased some more from the green house. We should be good to go from here on out with lows  in the 50's.

Some of the farmers had soybeans that were just breaking the crust of the ground when it froze. If the frost would have came a day later or the beans came up a day earlier they would have been history. That would have been an expensive proposition. I think they were crazy for planting beans that early. I suppose with all the crop insurance they are bold. Of course corn can freeze off when it is small and be ok.

I didn't realize you could plant tomatoes so early where you are.  Here it is unwise to plant thembefore the end of May.  I know a guy in northern New Hampshire who puts them in pots and brings them in at night until July.  I saw firsthand why.  We were up there once in the middle of June and there was a hard frost.

At any rate, you still have plenty of time to replant tomato seedlings.  I don't plant spuds until June.  It seems to beat the potato beetle cycle.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Cop on May 20, 2014, 06:22:27 PM

Quote

I don't plant spuds until June.

 :o WOW! Down here we plant in January and harvest in May.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 20, 2014, 07:16:30 PM

Quote from: Wally on May 20, 2014, 03:55:50 AM

Quote from: colporteur on May 18, 2014, 04:45:31 PM

We had a hard freeze Thursday night of 28 degrees that knocked off 3/4 of my tomatoes. None of the one's uncovered survived and part  of those covered got nailed. All the potatoes froze but that's not a problem as they come back. Of course all the cabbage type plants, onions and peas made it. Fortunately I have a reserve supply of plants indoors and purchased some more from the green house. We should be good to go from here on out with lows  in the 50's.

Some of the farmers had soybeans that were just breaking the crust of the ground when it froze. If the frost would have came a day later or the beans came up a day earlier they would have been history. That would have been an expensive proposition. I think they were crazy for planting beans that early. I suppose with all the crop insurance they are bold. Of course corn can freeze off when it is small and be ok.

I didn't realize you could plant tomatoes so early where you are.  Here it is unwise to plant thembefore the end of May.  I know a guy in northern New Hampshire who puts them in pots and brings them in at night until July.  I saw firsthand why.  We were up there once in the middle of June and there was a hard frost.

At any rate, you still have plenty of time to replant tomato seedlings.  I don't plant spuds until June.  It seems to beat the potato beetle cycle.

We are blessed here in that we have no potato bugs. I think it is a soil type thing. They seem to like cooler climate and lighter or sandy soil.  When we were in Michigan they were  plague like. I mean they would eat the plant to the ground in two days. Then we found an organic spray that nails them.

Last frost date here is May 19th. However, the past two previous years were so warm there was no frost after mid April. Two years ago I planted garden in March and April. The winter was so warm and ground temps were high early so I risked it and came out fine. This years has been normal and I got burned a bit. The 30 day fore cast said no frost. However they were way off. Next year I will be a little more patient.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on May 21, 2014, 09:07:12 PM

Colporteur, Sorry to hear about your plants. Most years here we can get things planted in April. But yes the last two years have been rough. As well you are not alone, for many down here had the same problem, but you leave them alone for a week or two and they will sometimes come out of it. I had way to many out to cover, but the Lord was watching out I guess for I had no frost. I have been putting eggplant into the ground, so I am thinking the cold is gone for the year. Sweet potatoes will stat going in tomorrow as well. Why give me a few more weeks and I will be picking a few maters, can't wait.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on May 23, 2014, 07:08:05 AM

Thought I might post a pic some of what I took to the garden show a couple weeks ago for those that like pictures. Had a great time and met a lot of new people and of course sold several thousand plants. Still selling many extras in the yard for I don't want to plant all i have left. The Lord was good and gave us great weather, and protected us on the long trip. As well He gave me some of the best looking plants I could take. If there is any here within driving distance of me in west central Missouri, Free plants if in need! God bless.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o695/kyud8/maters%202014/10245429_1478061432428692_461448528041578512_n_zps7d0f1b1d.jpg)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on May 23, 2014, 08:03:59 AM

Absolutely beautiful Mark. How many different kinds of tomatoes do you plant? What kinds seem to sell the best? I'm still pampering mine along hoping to be able to put out about 100 for sale here. Of course we are way behind you.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 23, 2014, 09:24:41 AM

 Looks great Mark !   That's a lot of stay on top of.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on May 23, 2014, 11:44:45 AM

Wow! Good job!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 23, 2014, 07:02:10 PM

Those are mighty beautiful tomato plants, Mark! And, and also a lot of them!!! We are thankful for your expertise and your willingness to share. May God continue to bless you, dear brother.

On another note, my seedlings do not look like marks. :(

Let me share what I think happened. As everyone knows, we've had very warm and dry weather in California. Thus, I was able to put my seedlings out in the sun very early. Because they were in cups an extended period of time, and the sun was so intense, they required much water. I mis-calculated their need for nitrogen. I planted 20 seedlings a month ago in the same soil that my seedlings were potted in. Those plants are not nitrogen deficient, thus I believed the soil to be satisfactory for the potted seedlings. Where did I go wrong?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on June 20, 2014, 02:25:22 PM

Ok you tomato experts out there.....I've got a problem with some of my tomato plants. This year I have the healthest soil I've ever had and some of my tomato plants in the garden are NOT happy. When I first planted them about 3 weeks ago they looked like those in Marks picture. Now the Paul Robeson, Bloody Butchers, and Cosmonaut Volkov's are stunted and the leaves are curling up and the leaves are small. I've searched for insects but don't see any but there are tiny holes in the leaves. The same tomatoes in the greenhouse are beautiful, healthy and growing like weeds.

The only difference I can think of is that the moisture is controlled in the greenhouse while outside they are cooked one day and flooded another by torrential rains not by me. :) But why wouldn't those in the garden all look the same. The rest of the garden tomatoes are growing nicely, healthy and happy looking. There's no sign of blight. Any suggestions?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on June 21, 2014, 07:50:16 PM

Quote from: Dorine on June 20, 2014, 02:25:22 PM

Ok you tomato experts out there.....I've got a problem with some of my tomato plants. This year I have the healthest soil I've ever had and some of my tomato plants in the garden are NOT happy. When I first planted them about 3 weeks ago they looked like those in Marks picture. Now the Paul Robeson, Bloody Butchers, and Cosmonaut Volkov's are stunted and the leaves are curling up and the leaves are small. I've searched for insects but don't see any but there are tiny holes in the leaves. The same tomatoes in the greenhouse are beautiful, healthy and growing like weeds.

The only difference I can think of is that the moisture is controlled in the greenhouse while outside they are cooked one day and flooded another by torrential rains not by me. :) But why wouldn't those in the garden all look the same. The rest of the garden tomatoes are growing nicely, healthy and happy looking. There's no sign of blight. Any suggestions?

All of this excessive rain in many parts of the country is not so good for tomatoes. There are many types of blight and given these end times the problem is unprecedented. Some tomatoes are tougher than others and it is high stress for them  to be baked, boiled, wind whipped and drowned on a daily basis. Several of mine are broken off by the wind and we have plague like tiny grasshoppers. I am seeing reaction from some of my tomato plants that I have never seen before. While they are doing well considering all the weather ,blight, and insect issues it needs to stop raining for a while. We are having flooding hear that has closed a number of roads with water running over them.

Has anyone done any spraying around you by air or land ? It only takes a whiff of some sprays to effect tomatoes and their reaction is leaf curl and a deformed leaf.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on June 22, 2014, 01:59:53 AM

Heat, cold, dirt, water, intensity of sunlight, wind stress above beneficial, preferred earliness vs mid summer late summer growing season, macro-micro nutrients / prefered bacterial soil flora, drainage-aeration of soil, lots of earthworms vs few, roots too hot or water logged , elevation of garden above sea level or too low,  all this and more makes for good tomato growing season or a poor one for each variety.

Other folks had problems with some of those same varieties too.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg1223341331531.html (http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg1223341331531.html)

Just as an experiment take 10-12 inch long suckers off of your vigorous heavy bearing tomatoes, root them, cut off their tops at an angle and make a small shallow "T" shaped slit in the trunk of the a few of sickly varieties, plant the graft out from the plant to be grafted into, bend the stalk over without breaking it, and graft into the weaker plant, wrap with soft twine or knitting yarn enough to cover the graft site and hold the graft unmoving till it takes.

Graft some small suckers off the weak varieties onto the strong varieties.

use an exacto knife from a craft store - use a butane cigarette lighter / or a charcoal lighter with a trigger and long snout, or a cup of rubbing alcohol to stick the blade in between cuts - to sanitize - between cuts.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=grafting+tomato+plants (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=grafting+tomato+plants)

Got nothing to loose .   :)

Don't hoe tomatoes it cuts the feeder roots between the rows which are the plant's major feeders.  Mulch them 6-8 inches deep, any shallower can't keep root temps moderated in summer heat.  10-20 % shade cloth on some varieties would help - ( cooler temp earlier varieties already suffering in the heat)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHetN7UIdBk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHetN7UIdBk)

look at feed stores for a sulfur magnesium phosphate fertilizer - as low on nitrogen as possible ( do they have sulpho mag or something like it )

If not look for ground up coal klinkers & epsom salts, woods dirt, and kudzu leaves, earth worms, pine needles for a thick mulch.  I assume you have plenty of good clay in the soil already. 

Buy cheap wooden matches in bulk, and dump a cup full in a bucket of water, let sit for a day, stir up, pour off the water in a watering can, try around a few healthy, a few mediocre, a few sickly plants, a few hrs later mix up 1 tea spoon of epsom salts in 1 gallon of water and watering can the roots of those same test plants, dig up lots of earthworms drizzle around the plants, then chop up kudzu leaves and liquify in an old blender now purposed only for the garden after this, pour on the ground around the plants, then mulch them with the pine needles thickly.    Then wait and write down results.    Tinker .   adjust .   

Dig up woods dirt from deep shade, keep out of the sun 100%, UV destroys the miconozzorial  flora,  at nearly sunset mix with well water or distilled water or rain water ( put a barrel under a gutter on the house or barn or shed to collect it cheap) , move the mulch back, water with woods dirt water around the plant and covering between the rows, put the mulch back thickly.

If you can't get pile needles use leaves from the woods, hay, rotted sawdust 3+ yrs old, chipper truck ground up stuff, etc,  or a mixture .   

Mulch 8 + inches deep and let it sit on top of the soil and stay there.

*************************

Jacob Mittleider developed a system of observing plant growth and symptoms as to what nutrient to supply or was out of balance locking up uptake for those varieties, in these links there may be answers to macro and micro nutrients and  things that help.  Your green house plants may be getting balanced feed for those varieties while the garden ones suffer.

In these links look for fertilizer formulas fertilizer recipes, mentions of small curling leaves etc .

http://growfood.com/ (http://growfood.com/)

 http://growfood.com/meet-dr-mittledier/  (http://growfood.com/meet-dr-mittledier/)

  http://peaceofpreparedness.com/Resource%20Library/Gardening/Growing%20Tomatoes.pdf  (http://peaceofpreparedness.com/Resource%20Library/Gardening/Growing%20Tomatoes.pdf)

 https://sites.google.com/site/myfarmingsecrets/mittleider-method  (https://sites.google.com/site/myfarmingsecrets/mittleider-method)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on June 22, 2014, 02:45:00 AM

garden journal pdf   

 https://growfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/GardenJournal1.pdf  (https://growfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/GardenJournal1.pdf)

If the garden tomatoes that are having problems are deficient in micro nutrients it could affect leaf size and curling up,  look at the nutrients in the greenhouse media and consider garden soil and nutrient uptake . 

What is the PH of the greenhouse growing media ? 

PH affects nutrient uptake, compare greenhouse PH and garden PH right at the sick plants area in the row.

7.0 = neutral   
7.1 = moving toward alkaline  and each .1 climb = change in PH

Tomatoes according to variety have different likes and dislikes.

If not a PH difference it could be micro nutrients and / or root nematodes .

In a rusty 55 gal barrel - mix rusty water, one teaspoon of 20 mule team borax soap powder, two teaspoons of epsom salts, one large box of wooden matches, 4-6 cups of regular table sugar, (if garden PH is above 5.5 - 6.5 around sick tomatoes - add 1 quart of lemon juice in the barrel.)

iron, borax, magnesium sulfate, sulfur, phosphorus,  the sugar attacks the root knot nematodes, lemon juice lowers PH slightly and the sugar / lemon juice add reserves of sweet / sour to tomato root area to fuel ripening tomatoes in the field or greenhouse .

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on June 22, 2014, 04:59:17 AM

a little off topic but youtube links with helpful info that can apply to tomatoes and gardening in general.

plastic crate raised beds and organic additives and rock dusts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeKufjx1GZ8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeKufjx1GZ8)

growing in the snow

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRnulbOqo0k  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRnulbOqo0k)

signs of the times
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0bsPkDanHk  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0bsPkDanHk)

growing potatoes
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13ynRrHHu58   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13ynRrHHu58)

growing mushrooms at home
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx0fbCy3Nok   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx0fbCy3Nok)

growing onions
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XrvzYEa0uQ   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XrvzYEa0uQ)

increase the size of onion bulbs

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn19fbNm_PI  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn19fbNm_PI)

a gardener's report about woodchip gardening
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfX525YOr_4  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfX525YOr_4)

more about woodchips by a gardener using them
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAWeHVNtgmk   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAWeHVNtgmk)

*******************************************

I forgot to post in reply #243 water from the barrel around the sick plants and between the rows there, under the mulch and through the mulch, if it works as good through the mulch, stop lifting mulch.

If it's a curled leaves with purplish color at the edges get rock dust - on the ingredients label look for molylybdnum and other trace elements.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on June 22, 2014, 03:55:29 PM

Thank you Ed and CP for all the suggestions. This will give me plenty to work with. I must say that the last two days have been sunny and warm and already I see an improvement in all of them except the Paul Robeson. I'm thinking that if it doesn't rain for a few days they too will recover. The PH is the same in the greenhouse and the garden at 7. We have built our soil from scratch. It's made up of the following.
From a purchased truck load of organic top soil we added the following:
homemade compost from kitchen scrapes, lots of seaweed and leaves
peat moss
rock dust full of nutrients
green sand
wood ashes
calcium nitrate
organic fertilizers
We have built this up over a 5 year period and all this is covered in a thick layer of mulch.
The rest of the garden is beautiful although something keeps eating my Fordhook swiss chard off at ground level. So now I've planted a whole bed of swiss chard, lettuce, collards and spinach in the greenhouse in the shade and will see if they will do better there. We are finding grubs and insects this year that we have never seen before.

To answer your question Ed about spraying...no there is no spraying done around here. Not very many gardens. There are no fields. We live on the rocks by the ocean. There is no farming of any kind done around here. Down the road from us a gentleman has an orchard of peaches and other fruits but he is very particular about keeping everything organic.

I will check out these websites you've shared and do some experimenting.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on July 16, 2014, 10:23:16 AM

Update on my tomatoes: The only thing I ended up doing was to add some Epsom Salts around each one and on the heels of doing that we had a heat wave with high humidity move in and stay and my tomatoes within a week changed to a lush dark green with lots of blooms and many tomatoes forming. The leaves have flattened out and happy looking again and so am I. ;D I think what they needed was the heat.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 17, 2014, 04:00:48 PM

God is GOOD!!  Happy to hear that your tomatoes are doing well, Dorine.  I sure would like to send some of our heat your way.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on July 17, 2014, 04:15:33 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on July 17, 2014, 04:00:48 PM

God is GOOD!!  Happy to hear that your tomatoes are doing well, Dorine.  I sure would like to send some of our heat your way.

I'll accept the offer only if you send a thermostat with it. :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on July 18, 2014, 04:44:08 AM

Very soon we will not need that thermostat.  Until then, Jesus has His hand on it. We can be assured that whatever the situation, it will work for our good. It is a promise!  Too hot here, too cold there, but God still provides for our needs. Praise His holy name!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on July 18, 2014, 06:47:53 AM

Quote from: Dorine on July 16, 2014, 10:23:16 AM

Update on my tomatoes: The only thing I ended up doing was to add some Epsom Salts around each one and on the heels of doing that we had a heat wave with high humidity move in and stay and my tomatoes within a week changed to a lush dark green with lots of blooms and many tomatoes forming. The leaves have flattened out and happy looking again and so am I. ;D I think what they needed was the heat.

Dorine, how  much salt do  you use and what is the effect ?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on July 18, 2014, 10:16:26 AM

Richard I am amazed at how God has taken a most discouraging situation with our garden this year and has turned it into one of the best I've had so far. I've done much praying as I work in it. Yes His promises are sure and I'm so thankful for that. I wonder what it will be like to work in the soil and have no weeds, no pests, no need for compost, no weather systems to contend with and NO aching backs. I can only imagine.

CP, I didn't measure the epsom salts. I took some up in my hand and sprinled it in a circle around each plant and then watered it in. As of a few days ago I have put out three 5 gal. buckets (through out the garden) with partially composted compost (about 2 shovel fulls) and filled the bucket with water and am now watering each plant by hand with the tea. Tedious but seems to be working nicely. Then I water that in with the hose. I have only applied the salts once but I will do it again in about 2 weeks. I have not used sea water yet which is suppose to be very good. I'm within walking distance of the ocean so I don't know why I haven't.

Seeing we are on the subject of tomatoes.....I was wondering how each of you care for them. Do you prune them or let them bush out? I've always pruned mine and am wondering if I would get more yield if I let them go. I'm the sort that likes to be in control of them and not just let them ramble.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on July 18, 2014, 10:57:21 AM

What does the salt do for the plant ?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on July 18, 2014, 12:18:47 PM

It's critical for seed germination and the production of chlorophyll, fruit, and nuts. Magnesium helps strengthen cell walls and improves plants' uptake of nitrogen, phosphorus, and sulfur. They say you should see a difference within 48 hours of applying it if that is what the plants need. (tomatoes, peppers and roses)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on August 01, 2014, 08:44:27 AM

My tomatoes are suffering this year. Not exactly sure why.  I'll post  pic.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on August 01, 2014, 09:48:44 AM

Quote from: Richard Myers on August 01, 2014, 08:44:27 AM

My tomatoes are suffering this year. Not exactly sure why.  I'll post  pic.

Oh No! Sorry to hear that Richard. We work so hard preparing the soil and pampering the new seedlings and anxiously wait for the rewards of a beautiful harvest. Well there is still time for recovery. The Lord is trying to teach us something through all of this. He wants us to succeed. Will be watching for your picture.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on September 19, 2014, 01:30:44 PM

I have one remaining tomato plant and this is happening to it. I cannot believe it. It flowers and after several days, less than 1/2" on the stem, there is an apparent weakness that causes the stem to break and the bloom dies. This particular plant was grafted onto another and has done beautifully up to this point. This is occurring on every single bloom.  :'( 

What is causing this? Does anyone know?

(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/TROPhotobucket/TomatoesSep192014001_zps309d5258.jpg) (http://s587.photobucket.com/user/TROPhotobucket/media/TomatoesSep192014001_zps309d5258.jpg.html)

(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/TROPhotobucket/TomatoesSep192014003_zps03348712.jpg) (http://s587.photobucket.com/user/TROPhotobucket/media/TomatoesSep192014003_zps03348712.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Wally on September 19, 2014, 03:27:37 PM

I bet some kind of bug is infesting it, but I can't be sure.  Take a sample to the nearest agricultural extension office and they might be able to sleuth it out.  There should be one in your county.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Wally on September 19, 2014, 03:29:05 PM

There was widespread frost in our area this morning, so tomatoes are done for many.  Being up on a hill, we just missed it with 33°.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on September 19, 2014, 04:18:31 PM

It looks to me like it has not been pollintated. Is it inside and if so do you spank it every day?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on September 19, 2014, 04:20:32 PM

Quote from: Wally on September 19, 2014, 03:29:05 PM

There was widespread frost in our area this morning, so tomatoes are done for many.  Being up on a hill, we just missed it with 33°.

Oh, wow!

 

Quote from: Wally on September 19, 2014, 03:27:37 PM

I bet some kind of bug is infesting it, but I can't be sure.  Take a sample to the nearest agricultural extension office and they might be able to sleuth it out.  There should be one in your county.

There is, but no, it is not a bug. Scott (goatman) had the same thing happen to his and he is the lovely person who gave me this one when the other tomato plants failed. He lost a batch of tomatoes to this very condition. The stalks were beautiful and the leaves were very healthy. There has been no indication of anything troubling the plants. But when they began to bloom, the identical stem problem occurred at the same point on every single bloom. The problem is isolated to that precise point and nowhere else. It is a mystery.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on September 19, 2014, 04:23:21 PM

Quote from: Dorine on September 19, 2014, 04:18:31 PM

It looks to me like it has not been pollintated. Is it inside and if so do you spank it every day?

Spank?  ??? What do you mean?

I just brought it indoors last week.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on September 19, 2014, 04:28:14 PM

Quote from: Mimi on September 19, 2014, 04:23:21 PM

Quote from: Dorine on September 19, 2014, 04:18:31 PM

It looks to me like it has not been pollintated. Is it inside and if so do you spank it every day?

Spank?  ??? What do you mean?

I just brought it indoors last week.

While holding on to the upper part of the plant with one hand you gently "spank" it with the other so that there is a slight vibration throughout the plant and this pollinates the blossoms. When they are outside the wind and bees do the job. Did you have the same problem when it was outside?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on September 19, 2014, 04:30:16 PM

That was suppose to be "pollinated" not pollintated. ::)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on September 19, 2014, 04:42:44 PM

 :)  Now I know what you mean! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W5_DZjqgqU Am new to all of this and will give it a try. And yes, it was also happening outside.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on September 19, 2014, 05:09:26 PM

Here is a bit more info on the subject. You may find something helpful here.

http://www.tomatodirt.com/blossom-drop.html

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on September 19, 2014, 07:00:49 PM

Thank you, Dorine. The top two problems appear to be mine and the cause of this. It is decidedly true that I cannot grow tomatoes at this altitude. A greenhouse will be a necessity and something I have planned for years. Can't put it off anymore. 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Marelis on October 07, 2014, 04:32:36 AM

I now live where my garden is all of about 14 inches wide and maybe 12 feet long along a fence. It was a eyesore and for cosmetic purposes I dumped a pile of woodchips on it last year. Well, i then had the good fortune of discovering that vegetables grow well where there are woodchips. I turned the soil, distributing the ageing woodchips through the soil with mushroom compost. My tomato plants thrived in this soil! The woodchips and mushroom compost seems to make a happy marriage. The fungus helps to break down the woodchips. I went on to learn that vegetable roots cling to woodchips.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on October 08, 2014, 11:31:25 AM

Thanks for sharing, Marelis. We have a lot to learn. Wood chips that are not composted will require nitrogen to break down. They will steal it from the soil if not added. It appears that your compost was rich enough to provide for the chips and your plants. 

My experiment with wood chips and tomatoes did not work out.  They were fresh chips placed on the surface. Not sure what happened, but will attempt to find out. I used Eucalyptus chips. Not sure they are very good for mulching tomatoes.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on October 09, 2014, 03:03:28 AM

Eucalyptus chips may put out allelochemicals like a walnut puts out juglone to stop other plants from competing.

*************************

walnut toxicity & chart
  http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/hortcult/fruits/blkwalnt.htm   (http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/hortcult/fruits/blkwalnt.htm)

  http://www.jes2s.com/pdfs/qin_article.pdf   (http://www.jes2s.com/pdfs/qin_article.pdf)

   http://www.livingspace360.com/index.php/trees-that-poison-the-surrounding-soil-5000/  (http://www.livingspace360.com/index.php/trees-that-poison-the-surrounding-soil-5000/)

Eucalyptus & all   

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allelopathy    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allelopathy)

 http://hs.scib.ac.cn/inc/paper_hsf/2009/200902.pdf   (http://hs.scib.ac.cn/inc/paper_hsf/2009/200902.pdf)

effects on tomato plants
  http://www.idosi.org/aejaes/jaes11(5)11/1.pdf  (http://www.idosi.org/aejaes/jaes11(5)11/1.pdf)

*************************

Try composting heavily over top of the wood chips around and between tomato rows, add crushed granite powder over the compost, add herbicide free grass clippings around the tomatoes and water in well, next year the crop ought be much better.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on October 10, 2014, 09:59:17 AM

Thanks for the info, Ed.  I think I will remove the chips since they are on the surface.  I had read pro and con on using Eucalyptus chips.  I am attempting to make compost with then now.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on February 25, 2015, 12:54:30 PM

I was slicing a tomato for lunch and this is inside. Have you ever seen this? The thing must have been old before I bought it. Either that or it was incorrectly labeled and is instead GMO and about to sprout legs and arms!

What do you make of it? 

(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/TROPhotobucket/tomato%20sprouts%20004_zpsliamqrry.jpg) (http://s587.photobucket.com/user/TROPhotobucket/media/tomato%20sprouts%20004_zpsliamqrry.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on February 25, 2015, 01:09:00 PM

Not too long ago, I heard the same thing on a radio gardening show.  I have seen a lot of rotten tomatoes, but never sprouts inside.  Thinking of the "arms and legs", are these the tomatoes you have been eating all year?   :)      Looks like roma from Mexico?  In the U.S. things are getting bad, but outside who knows.  GMO, GNO, GPO, LTU, etc. etc.   China is a definite "no".  Much produce in the US is now imported.

Maybe one of our gardeners has seen this.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on February 25, 2015, 01:23:37 PM

Yes, it is a Roma bought @ Trader Joe's a few weeks ago. Organic from California. Until I can actually bring one of my plants to fruit, buying them is a necessity. Maybe that will change this year.

I did find this on tomato sprouts: http://www.treehugger.com/lawn-garden/tomato-seeds-amazingly-sprouting-inside-tomato-photos.html

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on February 25, 2015, 01:36:52 PM

Mimi I had the very same thing happen from tomatoes I bought from Costco. They were not GMO so I took a 1/4 inch slice and planted in a cup of soil and grew some beautiful medium sized, smooth perfect tomatoes in the greenhouse. It has not happened since but I did save the seed and will plant them again this year. Mine were nice and round and crack free. No blossom end rot. Just a great little tomato.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mimi on February 25, 2015, 01:40:27 PM

Dearest - I may try that. :D Thank you!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on February 25, 2015, 01:48:17 PM

Quote from: Mimi on February 25, 2015, 01:40:27 PM

Dearest - I may try that. :D Thank you!

They might be a hybrid which means they won't be the same as the parent. I think mine were too but they were fine anyway.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on March 04, 2015, 01:34:02 PM

What you see in the tomato above is certain genes at play. It isn't GMO, but is a hybrid utilizing natural genes that prolong shelf life and usually firmness. Genes like NOR and RIN to name a couple. Actually the lowly tomato has I believe over 5000 more genes then the human body and when found within a line, they are crossed to form other tomatoes that express the same characteristics. Some of these tomatoes bred for long shelf life I have heard of them lasting over 4 months under the  right conditions after being picked. So as the photo shows, your tomato was a bit old but yet looked perfectly normal.

Indeed they will grow, but no guarantee they will turn out anything like mama. If enough of the F2 seed which these seeds were are planted, indeed you could find the gene again in some of its offspring, but is it a gene a home gardener would want to expound on when usually taste is sacrificed securing the other genes. For the home gardener, finding just a good, meaty, yummy paste tomato would be a better bet and leave the other less tasty ones to the commercial growers.   Though there are many open pollinated paste tomatoes out there like Roma, I still think fine quality taste is lacking in many. If you can find them, one for just exquisite taste, I would suggest Andine Cornue or same tomato under a different name, Andenhorn Red. But I will also say there are many that outdo a roma or this one in the picture in the taste department, so just start growing a few.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on April 22, 2015, 07:12:55 AM

Sorry fellow gardeners, but I am never shy of things to do and find the greenhouses a little overwhelming at times. Must say though that the Lord has been good this year with things shaping up to maybe  be a record year for me in plant sales. Just thought I would post a pic to hopefully inspire some to venture out and plow up more ground to make bigger gardens ;D. I must say that indeed it is work, but yet at the same time immensly rewarding.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o695/kyud8/2015/20150421_180128_zpslsp3l30v.jpg)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on April 22, 2015, 07:19:02 AM

 Mark;

 What are your favorite tomato varieties both cherry and standard tomatoes ?

My favorite cherry tomato is Orange Paruche and in the standard category tomato Better Boy. I have grown several heirlooms but come back to these varieties. I usually play around with the heirloom "Big Zak" just for something different as he has the world record for size.

I don't think the problem with us gardeners is that we do not plow up enough ground.   ;D The problem is with keeping the tares from staking a claim and taking root.  :o

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on April 22, 2015, 09:00:20 AM

Well I have to say I have not grown or even heard or the orange one you mentioned and yes Better Boy is indeed a great hybrid tomato.  But all you see in the pic are open pollenated for that is what my clientele wan't and I give them just that. At the same time I have grown to appreciate the diversity of the heirlooms. So many possibilities for flavor, color, shape, and size. Us the fact that 5hey are able to take up more nutrients and store them is a plus as well. You just need to find the right ones for your area for some are best for certain locations. As for the perfect one, I have many good ones I have come across over the years, but at the same time I am always looking for that one that is even better. With over 20000 tomato varieties worldwide, the possibility of finding some even better then what I have are promising. I try my best every year to cull and select from those 20000, but I have a ways to go. Only about 400 varieties going to get planted this year lol. I have to say though that I have found a few that gives me a glimpse of what it will be like in heaven. Seems the hearts in shades of black and purple are very hard to beat. If my nephew takes a road trip your way in the need future, I might try sending some goodies your way.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on April 22, 2015, 10:55:50 AM

Quote from: Mark W on April 22, 2015, 09:00:20 AM

If my nephew takes a road trip your way in the need future, I might try sending some goodies your way.

That would be great. I have a few growing under lights in the porch but they did not come up as well as normal and I had them on a warming pad.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 22, 2015, 11:13:59 AM

Beautiful plants, Mark! Thanks for sharing the photo.  I like your system with the horses and roofing.  It is a challenge to find enough room to set out my transplants. And, yes, it is work, but such enjoyable work to see God working with us to grow our food. I never cease to be impressed and thankful that He gives us seed, sun, and rain.

How many transplants do you make, two?  How many plants will you end up with this year?  Maybe you can give us a picture of your in ground tomato plants when you get a moment. We all appreciate your sharing your work and blessings!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on April 22, 2015, 09:20:10 PM

Richard, I have got to where I only make one transplant since it is me, myself, and I that does all this, I try and shave off anything unnecessary. and yes I have got to scrounge for places to put all these plants when they start getting this big for they got to be spaced out in order to keep them from getting leggy. I have over 300 flats strung out inside and out.

As for pics of my maters in the ground, I have none as of yet. The ground is still a bit cool and my nighttime temps are still in the 40s some days. I have found it doesn't help much  trying to rush them if everything isn't right. Around here if I did plant them in the cool temps, they would just set there and then it might get wet and disease could set in, for I have seen it happen a many a time. Will get some pictures when things start happening maybe.

I guess I could post a pic from last year for everyone to feast their eyes on if that might do.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o695/kyud8/maters%202014/Ananas%20Blue%20round_zpsnk2w1gub.jpg)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o695/kyud8/maters%202014/HelsingJunktionBlues_zps969d15e3.jpg)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o695/kyud8/maters%202014/Criolla%20Quetzaltepeque_zpso2h5lyog.jpg)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 23, 2015, 07:18:23 AM

Wow! Talk about an encouragement to grow tomatoes, I just bought some at the store last night, and they don't look anything like yours!! How beautiful!!!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on April 23, 2015, 07:29:55 AM

So perfect. Mark do you plant the EGWhite method? Do you ever plant in the same area as the year before?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on April 23, 2015, 07:51:36 AM

Yes, very beautiful tomatoes. I'm sure they taste robust.

 What is the EG White method of planting garden ?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on April 23, 2015, 09:24:30 AM

It is the same method the Lord showed her when in Australia for planting fruit trees but she also planted tomatoes the same way.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 23, 2015, 10:45:49 AM

     While we were in Australia, we adopted the . . . plan . . . of digging deep trenches and filling them in with dressing that would create good soil. This we did in the cultivation of tomatoes, oranges, lemons, peaches, and grapes. 
     The man of whom we purchased our peach trees told me that he would be pleased to have me observe the way they were planted. I then asked him to let me show him how it had been represented in the night season that they should be planted. I ordered my hired man to dig a deep cavity in the ground, then put in rich dirt, then stones, then rich dirt. After this he put in layers of earth and dressing until the hole was filled. I told the nurseryman that I had planted in this way in the rocky soil in America. I invited him to visit me when these fruits should be ripe. He said to me, "You need no lesson from me to teach you how to plant the trees."   
     Our crops were very successful. The peaches were the most beautiful in coloring, and the most delicious in flavor of any that I had tasted. We grew the large yellow Crawford and other varieties, grapes, apricots, nectarines, and plums.--Letter 350, 1907.
               

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on April 23, 2015, 11:12:29 AM

I have to admit that I haven't tried this method for my tomatoes. I'm thinking of trying some this way and some the way I usually plant them and see what the difference is. I just don't like the idea of putting rocks back into my garden. I wonder if rock dust would do the same thing? Do you use this method Richard?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on April 23, 2015, 06:24:02 PM

The tomatoes above where some exceptionally pretty specimens I will admit. That is one reason I love to grow them for I never know what they will look like or taste like. Dorine, no I have not did as EG White did. I have used the double dug method before with success. I have heard triple digging is closer to what she was shown, but must say that would be work. I only plant tomatoes on a 3 year cycle for indeed you do not want to grow them in the same spot twice, but even then I have seen them plant and plow under mustard greens to discourage nematodes. But I just rotate. Will post a few more when I got time. Writing out plant labels at the moment and still got a 1000 to do. God bless.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on April 23, 2015, 08:29:29 PM

 I planted fruit trees the way she suggested and they grew 4 feet in the first year and produced fruit.  It was a big job to dig holes 3' x 3' x 3'. After about so many I had a neighbor bring in his back hoe. After about the third hole I looked around and my toddler son was no where in sight. I walked over to the hole and there he was just standing there looking up out of the hole not saying a word. He fell in the hole and never said boo.

Somewhere I believe there is a quote where she spoke of the size of the hole being 3' with a tile in the bottom with a rock in the ends. Then there was a layer of gravel  at the bottom and then black dirt. The tree was planted on a flat rock with the roots spread side ways. 5 Lbs. of rock phosphate was added and 200-500 worm castings if I remember correctly. I did all but the worm castings as I did not have any. The trees jumped. Most of the clay I removed. In most soil the top soil is only a few inches so this way the roots grew out and down into rich soil. I added a couple of buckets of aged horse manure in the hole as well.

We moved  the next year and another purchased the property. A few years later we passed through the area in the fall and stopped. The trees where heavy laden with fruit. The own said he had not eaten any fruit because he thought it was just ornamental.  ::) I don't know how anyone can be so ____ . He let us take all the fruit we wanted. The trees had not been trimmed, sprayed or cared for and yet the fruit was very large, tasty, and worm free. Amazing ! We had all the pears and apples we wanted for the road. The peach and plumb trees had died and the cherries had already bore fruit and it was gone. Not easy to leave your orchard and return to see it neglected.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 24, 2015, 07:28:23 AM

God's ways are best.  It is  sad that so  many do not believe.

No, Dorine, I have not put rocks under my tomatoes.  I never figured out how to keep putting rocks in the garden area when I was tilling the ground. Raised beds are something new to me.  I did use a backhoe to dig out the garden area and replaced much of the clay with a sandy  loam. That gave me four to five feet of good soil under much of the garden area. The difference in plant growth is amazing. I will take a photo of two plants for you. One is in the area, the other is outside by a few feet. What a difference the soil depth makes.

The rock must provide some drainage, even though the experts now say no to putting rocks in the bottom of planters. I will go with what God has revealed.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on April 27, 2015, 12:38:22 PM

 
I have not read where Mrs. White used rocks in a vegetable garden. I think the flat rock directly under each fruit tree is so the roots are forced to grow out and spread a bit more rather than sending down a single tap root . It may be that it gets the tree off to a good start in terms of shaping its root pattern.

Any rock in my vegetable garden gets a free ride out of the vicinity. Fortunately rocks in my garden are rare. I think that anyone that adds rocks to their garden needs a little therapy.  ;D

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 27, 2015, 04:34:14 PM

cp, as I  understand the method she used, the rocks were down deeper, near the bottom of the deep hole.  "dig a deep cavity in the ground, then put in rich dirt, then stones, then rich dirt. After this he put in layers of earth and dressing until the hole was filled."

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on April 27, 2015, 07:08:33 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on April 27, 2015, 04:34:14 PM

cp, as I  understand the method she used, the rocks were down deeper, near the bottom of the deep hole.  "dig a deep cavity in the ground, then put in rich dirt, then stones, then rich dirt. After this he put in layers of earth and dressing until the hole was filled."

What I read from the detailed directions was the  tree was to be planted directly on the flat rock with the roots spread a part. If it did not help it certainly did not hurt as I had 4 ft. of new growth the first year. That meant the trees nearly doubled in size. The only other rocks in the directions was a rock covering each end of the tile at the bottom of the hole. I figured that was to keep the tile from plugging with dirt. Not sure the purpose of the tile other than maybe a water reservoir. Personally, I suspect that the tile is the least important part of the operation with the most important part being the new rich soil, rock phosphate, and worm castings. That must be significant as in most soil there is only 6-10 inches of top soil and then relatively sterile clay. A 3 ft cube of rich fertilized soil would naturally jump start the tree majorly and largely feed it for years even after the roots extend out past the cube.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 27, 2015, 09:57:19 PM

When she says "layers of earth", I understand this  to be the material dug out of the hole. Do you understand it that way also? If so, why would this be a good thing to put back into the hole unmixed?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Mark W on April 30, 2015, 07:56:44 AM

Well I thought I would post one more pic before I load tomatoes up for sale day tomorrow. I had to add to the display I posted a pic of the other day. Indeed was a lot of work to get them this far, but yet richly rewarding already. Now the job of placing all them into hands that will get as much joy out of them as I have. God is sure good! None of this would be possible without Him.


(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o695/kyud8/2015/IMG_20150429_211928901_zpsz1uo3hna.jpg)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 30, 2015, 08:06:24 AM

Beautiful, Mark!!   God is blessing your  labor in more than one way. We pray that demand exceeds your supply!   Thanks for sharing.  It is an encouragement to us who are learning how to labor with Jesus in the garden.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on April 30, 2015, 04:44:28 PM

What is there about that picture that raises the endorphins and gives you a feeling of well being? Beautiful Mark.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on April 30, 2015, 04:51:57 PM

Mark do you ever get a bit of sun burn on your tomatoes at first ?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on April 30, 2015, 05:07:53 PM

Quote from: Richard Myers on April 27, 2015, 09:57:19 PM

When she says "layers of earth", I understand this  to be the material dug out of the hole. Do you understand it that way also? If so, why would this be a good thing to put back into the hole unmixed?

If I remember correctly the soil was to be mixed with a layer of sand at the bottom, and in the  top 12 inches the rock phosphate and worm castings. Years ago, I was not able to get the rock phosphate as the powers that be were worried (supposedly) about people making bombs with it. So I used a couple of buckets of decomposed horse manure per tree. All I know is the results were fabulous.  In many areas of the country including mine if you go a foot or more down you hit yellow clay. This clay does not grow much. If you put it on the top as in when they dig in a water line and are not careful about pushing the topsoil off to the side and returning it back to the top the ground is largely sterile and will not grow anything. The point is that in most areas of the country where the soil has been worked it is only the top few inches that has much fertility. If one does no more than dig a hole and return exactly the same soil to the whole all one gains is to loosen the soil. There is some value in that but we can greatly enrich the soil while we are at it. Mostly what I replaced was the bottom half of the soil which was entirely yellow clay. Black is good. Yellow is not. Of course down south they have red soil. I have heard that to blend some of the existing soil with new soil works best other wise if the soil is entirely replaced with rich new soil the roots are not very excited about growing out beyond the 3 ft. square. I purchased 5 yards of top soil and blended the best of the existing soil with the new topsoil with the manure. All I know is that trees jumped and produced gangbusters.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on April 30, 2015, 10:15:45 PM

I have read many suggestions about planting, but have not seen what you are sharing from the Spirit of Prophecy. Can you share where I can find it?  I have heavy clay soil, and I put it back into the hole just as she said to. It is not a very thick layer and  it soft when it goes back in. I believe it allows the roots to go in all directions. Some go into the rich soil underneath, some goes sideways through the clay and into the existing clay outside the hole. I think that is why we are to place the original soil back into the hole. The clay has nutrients in it. The spread of the roots outside of the hole is good. And, to dig a pit and replace the soil with rich loam when there is clay surrounding the hole can act as a sump during the winter. The water rushes into the hole and does not quickly drain into the surrounding clay, this the roots end up sitting in water. It appears the counsel given helps to avoid this swimming pool effect by having layers of the original soil that slows the water from filling the hole. But, the roots traveled through it into the richer soil underneath the layers of original soil.

That is the best I can figure out what I have read. Am  interested in seeing more counsel in planting trees. There is always more light that we have not seen!  :)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 01, 2015, 07:05:20 AM

  I'll have to see if the person that gave me a copy has another. It has been years and I have long since lost mine. How deep do you big up the soil, Richard ? The yellow or blue clay subsoil here has scant little nutrient, mostly nitrogen that leaches down. All one has to do is observe the tracts where this clay has been left on the surface after a pipe line has been dug to see that nothing much grows in it. The only places that would be different is where the soil has been prairie since the flood and then lawn so as not to erode and blow away top soil. There the topsoil is 2-4 feet deep otherwise it is less than a foot. This of course is  prime midwest soil and much of the soil across the land is much less fertile. When we used to plow our farm we were careful not to get into the clay and roll it over. Incidentally, the yellow sub soil  clay which is 6-8 feet deep is porous and absorbs water like a sponge. Flooding  is not the problem unless you are already in a marsh It is the  lack of fertility in the clay. I was just reading this  moments ago from a state horticultural web site.

 I know what I have done works. I returned to my orchard while passing through the area 5 years later and while the trees had not ever been tended to they were in great shape and heavily laden with fruit.  Apparently, the roots spread out well and the soil drained adequately. From what you have said it appears that you may have a richer sub soil than we have.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 01, 2015, 07:37:18 AM

Quote from: colporteur on May 01, 2015, 07:05:20 AM

  I'll have to see if the person that gave me a copy has another. It has been years and I have long since lost mine. How deep do you big up the soil, Richard ? The yellow or blue clay subsoil here has scant little nutrient, mostly nitrogen that leaches down. All one has to do is observe the tracts where this clay has been left on the surface after a pipe line has been dug to see that nothing much grows in it. The only places that would be different is where the soil has been prairie since the flood and then lawn so as not to erode and blow away top soil. There the topsoil is 2-4 feet deep otherwise it is less than a foot. This of course is  prime midwest soil and much of the soil across the land is much less fertile. When we used to plow our farm we were careful not to get into the clay and roll it over. Incidentally, the yellow sub soil  clay which is 6-8 feet deep is porous and absorbs water like a sponge. Flooding  is not the problem unless you are already in a marsh. It is the  lack of fertility in the clay. I was just reading this moments ago from a state horticultural web site.

 I know what I have done works. I returned to my orchard while passing through the area 5 years later and while the trees had not ever been tended to they were in great shape and heavily laden with fruit.  Apparently, the roots spread out well and the soil drained adequately. From what you have said it appears that you may have a richer sub soil than we have.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 01, 2015, 08:30:17 AM

There are many different soil conditions. What the Spirit of Prophecy counsels is most appropriate for most soils, if not all.

As for the depth and size of the hole, it depends on how wealthy one is and how much strength and time they have to dig. The larger the pit, the better. Tree roots from what I understand, extend at least to the drip line. That means a walnut tree in your soil would need a hole 25 feet across in  order to get  nutrient at the drip line.  It costs money and time to fill the hole as well as to dig it. The size of my holes fit my pocketbook and time when it is dug.   :)  I dug five foot holes when I had a hoe. I have one left I am planting today. The other tree will get a three foot hole and not the best of compost. It is the best I can do today.   My clay soil is hard as rock in the summer, but it has nutrients. I have mulched with wood chips and that will help retain moisture and create compost over time.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on May 01, 2015, 02:24:21 PM

 No one is suggesting digging a 25 ft. diameter hole. :D The hole is not intended to be the entire feeding area for the life of the tree. It is to get the tree off to a robust start and to continue to assist the tree as the roots spread. The tree  derives most of its nutrient from the top 2 ft. of soil and there are always roots that extend out to the drip line that pull nutrients from the top layer of soil. They also pick up nitrogen and such from rain water and from the air itself. The recommendation for the hole size was a 3 ft. cube. That is several times the size of what most people dig. I dug six holes that size by hand and the rest was dug with a back hoe. It takes either time, manpower, or a  back hoe to dig a lot of holes. The smallest back hoe is sufficient for that size of a hole and a rented hoe can be used to dig many holes in one day.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on May 02, 2015, 07:34:16 AM

Yes, the roots need to get into the natural soil even if it is not as good as the hole. I think this is one of the reasons for placing layers of the  original soil into the hole. It helps the roots to find their way out of the hole. Otherwise the roots would tend to stay in the hole far too long. In our location, the hole not only has more nutrient, it is softer and because it is more porous it will have more water in the summer. A root ball would develop if we did not encourage the roots to spread out into the original soil even  if it is  blue or yellow clay. The tree will get some nutrient from poor soil and it is in need of large amounts of water that will come from the original soil beyond the hole. The roots also serve as an anchor for the tree. We may not understand why the counsel is as it is, but if we follow it, we shall be blessed.

If you ever find any additional information in the Spirit of Prophecy on how to plant, we all would appreciate it, cp. This is all I have ever  seen.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on June 17, 2015, 08:25:46 AM

Prayer works!! Am praying more this year after the loss last year.   Have my first full size tomato turning red. A friend felt sorry for me and gave a some of his ripe tomatoes last week. Such joy!!!  The cherry tomatoes have been doing well, but there is something about the full size ones that is so very good!! Anyone else eating their homegrown tomatoes yet?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on June 17, 2015, 10:56:08 AM

No. I'm just getting mine in the ground today. They do have blossoms though. My daughter and I planted over 300 seeds for the family to plant and for sale. We have been doing quite well in sales because the commercial greenhouses in the province that were full of tomato plants for this year colapsed from the heavy snowfall we had this past winter. Many businesses have gone under. We are wishing we could have planted more. It looks like it's going to be a wonderful year for berries and fruit of all kinds.

I wanted to mention that James White wrote an article called "Small Fruit".  It describes how to plant and care for small fruit. It is excellent. I downloaded it to Kindle. I got it from http://ellenwhiteaudio.org/pioneers/ebooks-of-the-pioneers/ It was under James White

Talking about digging holes for planting trees.....I do not have any place to dig holes. Run into bedrock everywhere. I do have a hollow on one side of the property and I found old rotten wood and twigs and made a fence with in and filled with soil. I built it up that way and planted my apple tree. I will take a picture and show you. It is rather crude right now but I'm thinking it will work just fine.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on June 17, 2015, 12:20:57 PM

I have a terrible time growing tomatoes at my current locations. The last two years it was plague like grasshoppers. I got plenty to eat but not to can. Otherwise it is never ending blight. This year I have a new problem. Some kind of weevil is burrowing up the stalk and killing the top of the plant.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on June 18, 2015, 10:26:23 AM

cp, are they only eating your tomato plants?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on June 18, 2015, 10:26:52 AM

Quote from: Dorine on June 17, 2015, 10:56:08 AM

No. I'm just getting mine in the ground today. They do have blossoms though. My daughter and I planted over 300 seeds for the family to plant and for sale. We have been doing quite well in sales because the commercial greenhouses in the province that were full of tomato plants for this year colapsed from the heavy snowfall we had this past winter. Many businesses have gone under. We are wishing we could have planted more. It looks like it's going to be a wonderful year for berries and fruit of all kinds.

How sad that the businesses are failing. But, God has turned the disaster to good for you and those wanting tomato plants.

Quote

I wanted to mention that James White wrote an article called "Small Fruit".  It describes how to plant and care for small fruit. It is excellent. I downloaded it to Kindle. I got it from http://ellenwhiteaudio.org/pioneers/ebooks-of-the-pioneers/ It was under James White.

Thank  you for sharing, Dorine. I am reading it now. All need to read  it. Small berries do not take five years to produce fruit. Sometime in the near future, it will be important for many who  do not have enough food.

Quote

Talking about digging holes for planting trees.....I do not have any place to dig holes. Run into bedrock everywhere. I do have a hollow on one side of the property and I found old rotten wood and twigs and made a fence with in and filled with soil. I built it up that way and planted my apple tree. I will take a picture and show you. It is rather crude right now but I'm thinking it will work just fine.

God gave you wisdom, dear sister.  Looking forward to the pictures.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on June 18, 2015, 11:32:19 AM

Quote from: Richard Myers on June 18, 2015, 10:26:23 AM

cp, are they only eating your tomato plants?

Tomatoes and pepper plants. They eat into the side of the vine and burrow up the center of the vine, a little black worm. Never had that problem before. They more or less kill the plant over time. Used to be that hardly anything but a few aphids and blight prayed on my tomatoes. Now tomatoes are first on the menu. I loaded up for grasshoppers this year and we have none.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on June 25, 2015, 05:32:39 PM

Quote from: colporteur on June 18, 2015, 11:32:19 AM

Quote from: Richard Myers on June 18, 2015, 10:26:23 AM

cp, are they only eating your tomato plants?

Tomatoes and pepper plants. They eat into the side of the vine and burrow up the center of the vine, a little black worm. Never had that problem before. They more or less kill the plant over time. Used to be that hardly anything but a few aphids and blight prayed on my tomatoes. Now tomatoes are first on the menu. I loaded up for grasshoppers this year and we have none.

They are also eating potato plants. Apparently they like nightshade plants. They are a small black caterpillar  with a cream colored head. They burrow into the stalk anywhere from ground lever on up to a foot or so high. Then they eat up through or down through the stalk of the plant. The plant wilts and dies. Perhaps Mark knows what this is. I am using Colorado Potato Beetle spray on them today and tomorrow. We'll see it that stops them. Probably those already in the stalk will not be affected.

And now, just when I thought the grasshoppers were not going to plague the garden this year they came seemingly out of no where. Most are 1/4 " long but I did see one that was an inch long. I am trying something new this year. It is an organic product I ordered from Garden's Alive called Semaspore Bait. One pound covers an acre and you just spread on by hand or with a spreader. It smells and looks like wheat germ. The hoppers feed on it and become infected with a parasite that either makes them very sick or else it kills them. The other hoppers cannibalize and eat the sick and dying hoppers and then become infected  as well. It is a full time job just trying to stay a head of the weeds, blight and pests.

     I did am get a bumper crop of green onions, lettuce, kale, cabbage, kohlrabi's, cilantro, dill and broccoli. I canned 14 quarts of kale today and baked some kale chips in the oven. We are also eating some fresh sweet peas.

Other than the issues with the nightshade plants the garden is doing well with warm temps and good moisture.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on August 21, 2016, 09:15:50 AM

I was looking over the topics we have in our Gardening Forum. I was shocked to see the hits on this thread. There is nothing read nearly as much as this topic on Tomatoes.   :)   Here we are in much of the world in the midst of harvesting our favorite garden produce. After a few years of not having a great harvest, it has been refreshing to be eating my own tomatoes. While I erred in choosing only two heirlooms, one of which I don't like, it was a good lesson for me. I will always plant that which I like best, even though they may not produce as much, or even fail in a particular year. I am not complaining, for I have a lot of Better Boys. And a few Volkovs.  All of my tomatoes are small this year. Not sure if it is me or a general trend in my area. Others have experienced a similar harvest of smaller tomatoes.

My ground is clay and has been fallow for 30 years with few leaves falling on the soil. As I improve the soil, I expect to see a better yield. Greens, squash, and eggplants have done well. Melons were ok. I have planted trees also. They have been planted in amended holes, and are doing great.

Anyone else having fun with your tomatoes?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: JimB on August 21, 2016, 09:21:15 AM

Quote from: Richard Myers on August 21, 2016, 09:15:50 AM

Anyone else having fun with your tomatoes?

I had to chuckle at this I only add tomatoes to the garden if I know for sure that one or two family members will make use of them. This year I didn't start my tomatoes in time so I have none but this is no great loss to me. My taste buds still don't understand the all the "hoopla" over tomatoes.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: colporteur on August 21, 2016, 09:39:16 AM

Quote from: JimB on August 21, 2016, 09:21:15 AM

Quote from: Richard Myers on August 21, 2016, 09:15:50 AM

Anyone else having fun with your tomatoes?

I had to chuckle at this I only add tomatoes to the garden if I know for sure that one or two family members will make use of them. This year I didn't start my tomatoes in time so I have none but this is no great loss to me. My taste buds still don't understand the all the "hoopla" over tomatoes.

We will pray for you, Jim.  ;D  In my mind there is no life without tomatoes. lol.
Just curious, do you have a bit of a sensitivity to sour or acid foods ? I have found that many people either have a sweet or sour bend to their taste buds. Not saying that tomatoes are sour but  acid and sour kind of go together. I like sweet things but I can eat and do like very sour things. If I buy fruit juice it is too sweet for me. It tastes like sugar syrup. I dilute it 50/50 with water. My wife on the other hand drinks it straight and likes it that way. When I eat something that is not even sour to me it makes her mouth twist together like a prune. Obviously our taste buds are geared differently. It is also interesting how our taste changes. The more of something we eat and the more often we eat it  the milder the taste seems to be. The less salt we eat the more salty things taste and visa versa.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: JimB on August 21, 2016, 09:55:15 AM

Quote from: colporteur on August 21, 2016, 09:39:16 AM

Just curious, do you have a bit of a sensitivity to sour or acid foods ?

I am not a fan of sour things that is for sure. Tomatoes are not sour to me. Most of the time for me there is hardly any taste at all. Which is why I still add them salads and sandwiches since I know they are good for me. If I can taste a tomato it usually comes across as bitter to me. 

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on August 21, 2016, 02:40:51 PM

Jim, you are a nice guy! Planting tomatoes for your friends!!   :)

I know a few who don't like tomatoes, but I have never heard anyone call them sour or bitter. That is a new one for me.  I could not eat a salad without tomatoes, even the store bought will work. But, the reason why so many grow tomatoes is because it is impossible to eat a store bought tomato by itself. It is like eating a store bought peach. We can't wait for our tomatoes to ripen. We even settle for our cherry tomatoes until the real ones come in.  :)

The heirloom I grew this year that I don't like is a pineapple tomato. I just don't like it. I have never had a tomato that tasted sour or bitter. I am sensitive to both sour and bitter. I hate bitter, and a little sour with sweet is ok.

The Volkov's are ok this year, but I miss my large beefsteaks. You know, the ones that cover the plate, are juicy and full of flavor!   Next year!

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Richard Myers on August 21, 2016, 02:43:37 PM

Just a reminder of what real tomatoes look like!  :)  From our tomato adviser....

Quote from: Mark W on July 23, 2013, 05:59:38 AM

Well Richard said he could handle a few pics of a few ripe tomatoes, so I will post a few for all to enjoy. Richard said to me, a picture is worth a thousand words and I imagine that is true. I know it is true when you go ant sale plants and seeds. Hope you enjoy.


Another fine looking tomato specimen is this lovely bicolor. Again a great taste in a different package with lots of eye appeal. This one tipped the scale at over a pound and a half.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o695/kyud8/N-14bicolor1_zps21984303.jpg)

One more to feast your eyes on is a GWR  (green when ripe) variety. Actually this is a bicolor as well, but yet still packs more great taste with lots of eye appeal, and lots of juice to dribble down your chin Richard  ;D
 (http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o695/kyud8/N14GWR14_zps3761dc41.jpg)

Hope you enjoy the pics, for I can say I definitely enjoyed eating them. You look at all the colors, shapes and tastes there are in just tomatoes, and it makes me wonder what the creative possibilities will be when we reach the earth made new.  Richard I will have to invite you over when that time comes and we will be able to create a few new ones together.  Mark

 (http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o695/kyud8/P1240248_zps2d837950.jpg)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on May 10, 2018, 08:18:38 AM

I miss all the pictures we used to be able to see here. Is there no way anymore to post pictures?

As some of you know my daughters and I plant and sell tomato plants each year. It's a very small operation to cover the cost of our gardening needs after tithes and offerings. I'm getting older now and it's not so easy for me to be lifting, dragging, digging and standing for hours hunched over while transplanting. But I do love it. Each year brings new surprises, some delightful, some puzzling and some just plain disappointing.

This year we have had two new disappointing experiences that we can not identify. We are finding some of the nice healthy plants (about 2 to 3 inches tall) laying completely flat. The leaves are not wilted at all. The problem is at the ground level. (the soil is not 'wet' just moist) They are in the greenhouse with all the same conditions as the others and as any other year.

The other problem is with a few flats with perfect germination but got to about 1/2 inch high and stopped growing. After feeding and pampering they are still the same.

Wondering how all our other gardeners out there are doing.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: JimB on May 11, 2018, 07:22:55 AM

Quote from: Dorine on May 10, 2018, 08:18:38 AM

I miss all the pictures we used to be able to see here. Is there no way anymore to post pictures?

You can still post pictures but the problem here is that apparently our friend Mark was/is using photobucket who last year turned off 3rd party sharing unless you paid for an upgrade.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on May 11, 2018, 07:56:01 AM

I will need some instruction sometime Jim on how to post pictures. Photobucket was what I used also so any pictures I did post are not available anymore. Are there instructions posted in 'help'?

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Ed Sutton on May 14, 2018, 03:50:40 PM

Quote

 
Dorine Posts: 1129
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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #323 on: May 11, 2018, 07:56:01 AM »
Quote
I will need some instruction sometime Jim on how to post pictures. Photobucket was what I used also so any pictures I did post are not available anymore. Are there instructions posted in 'help'?   

(https://i.imgur.com/oj690qL.jpg)

click on insert image icon  put a space or two between img code and /img code then between them, paste/post image link from any service you store image or video files on.


(https://i.imgur.com/E2QGkiR.jpg)

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on May 14, 2018, 04:15:58 PM

Thanks Ed. I will try that.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on May 14, 2018, 04:37:11 PM

No it won't work for me.

I'm not understanding the instructions.

I understand the "click on insert image icon and posting image link from the service I'm storing my photo's on" (which is Flickr) but it's the in between instruction that isn't clear to me.

"put a space or two between img code and /img code then between them" ??????

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: JimB on May 15, 2018, 08:12:00 AM

Dorine, see if these steps are clear enough. If not let me know but leave all your tests and comments in that discussion area.


http://remnant-online.com/smf/index.php?topic=18505.msg192214#msg192214

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: JimB on October 29, 2018, 09:26:48 AM

The first 7 minutes of this video are for my tomato loving friends. Sounds like he has some really good ideas. Well... they are new to me but I'm not a huge tomato fan so maybe this is old news to some of you. He even explains how to get of fungus without chemicals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGe5sKMrenU

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: Dorine on October 29, 2018, 02:42:17 PM

Quote from: JimB on October 29, 2018, 09:26:48 AM

The first 7 minutes of this video are for my tomato loving friends. Sounds like he has some really good ideas. Well... they are new to me but I'm not a huge tomato fan so maybe this is old news to some of you. He even explains how to get of fungus without chemicals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGe5sKMrenU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGe5sKMrenU)

This is the exact method we use except we don't do what he does at the end of the season. By the end of September all tomato plants are removed and the bed is prepared for the next year. His growing season must be longer than ours. We have frost by the end of September. I wonder if he gives lectures on gardening. I'd sure like to hear some.

Title: Re: Tomatoes
Post by: JimB on October 29, 2018, 06:57:49 PM

I don't know where he is now but at one time he was in Kentucky. Whether or not that is where he was when the video was made I don't know.