To get us started, a lead-in question could be: "Why is there such a disparity in the eating habits among Seventh-day Adventists in light of the fact that what the Bible and spirit of prophecy say on the subject applies to all?"
M.A.
Ahh, I sense this thread topic is going to be very profitable. I'm glad we are getting on with it.
Perhaps the level of difference lies in the reading habits. Many don't respond to words in print as readily as when spoken to directly.
Or could it be that many don't want to feel responsible for applying the truths of what they would read from the books of counsel of White ? Could that be an art of being honest to the state one is in by saying, in so many words or ways....I'm not ready to let myself change (in habits) yet.
I know what it is like to read the bible in my early days, each and everytime I was convicted about something. I saw the ideal of behavior I was to display. It was such an awesome challenge to my carnal being that I was often just overwhelmed and stopped reading my bible. It stayed on my desk and I got myself very busy with every day duties, putting those duties as priorities over getting to know God.
Joan
Counsels on Diet and Foods
Page 147
One of the strongest temptations that man has to meet is upon the point of appetite.
Counsels on Diet and Foods
Page 163
The controlling power of appetite will prove the ruin of thousands, when, if they had conquered on this point, they would have had moral power to gain the victory over every other temptation of Satan. But those who are slaves to appetite will fail in perfecting Christian character. The continual transgression of man for six thousand years has brought sickness, pain, and death as its fruits. And as we near the close of time, Satan's temptation to indulge appetite will be more powerful and more difficult to overcome.
---end of quotes---
In my personal life I have had to overcome habits from my non-christian lifestyle. I was able to give up smoking, drinking, dancing, etc. with not to many problems. Smoking was harder as my body had that nicotene in it that I had to get rid of. But my appetite has been something else. I did not need any of that other stuff to actually survive, but I do need to eat to stay alive. I have had to be honest with myself...the reason I have not overcome on the point of appetite is "I" like to eat...I love the taste of whatever it is that I should not be eating. Oh some things were no problem...pork..have not touched it since I found out about it...coffee...no problem..hated the taste never drank the stuff..but there are alot of other things that are harmful to our bodies that we as SDA's have had councel on. So I would say that my problem is the surrendering of my self and following the guideslines of health that God has given us in the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy.
In The Blessed Hope
Avalee
Let's hear from some others who can share with us something that will add to our discussion.
M.A.
Pondering the matter of lack of discipline in eating habits, I considered it might lie in the natural body juices themselves.
Mothers report that their babies were different one to another in the eating preferences. I theorise that as those babies who grew up, the tendency to take in more fatty/ foods 'could' lie a bit in the mothers giving in to the whims of baby's tendencies too much. It then became an emotional fixation in adult years. Then one reaches to such items for the sake of comfort or pleasure (memory association) more easily than by those adult who have naturally been more disciplined as kids or babies to take in sugarfree or fatty foods.
....Joan.....
[This message has been edited by Joan Rügemer (edited 09-06-2000).]
Richard
Wouldn't it be fine to see the truth of what you just said somewhere operating purely? I need more testimonies from those who are living lives of overcoming because of being disciplined in eating habits. I haven't observed anyone closely enough in their private habits to make a conclusion if their spiritual fruit-of-the-spirit growth was directly enhanced by their disciplined eating habits.
We had a most lovely, slender, noble body-build SDA homo guy which I loved dearly as part of our local church before he moved south. He was strict vegan. He did well in Sabbath School when answering. He was a very pleasant part of our churches social life. He stayed away from practicing in the homo area for 6 years. Then he got a 'roommate' again. He privately confessed to me the urge was so strong he couldn't hold out.
I talked to another church member who is also strict vegan and a sportler in his free time. This guy was telling me about his daily need to do the 'act of Onan'. He is still married. (I get all amazed at the things people in trust confess to me )
I live with a vegan guy who has been so for 28 years. His wild mad rage episodes over the first part of our partnership had never impressed me at all. So discipline of eating habits as direct link for being more sensitive to spiritual proper behaviour has yet to be proven to me.The maturity my guy now has has led that he doesn't have rages at all anymore. Just a few wee short circuits now and then.
Joan
..Joan...
There are others, but I believe there are two main reasons why there is such a disparity in health reform habits among Seventh-day Adventists:
1. One reason is too many are listening to and accepting at face value the advice given by "well meaning" church members rather than studying the Bible and learning what "Thus saith the Lord" for themselves. To be effective, there must be a systematic way to study health reform. The "helter skelter" at random approach will only confuse and confound. I highly recommend the Amazing Facts Bible Study Guide entitled "You Wouldn't Do This" which is an excellent little study that provides Bible-based answers to questions on eating and drinking and is easy to read and understand. I also recommend the book Counsels On Diet And Foods by Ellen G. White which is a comprehensive study that deals with practically every aspect of health reform as it applies to the diet.
2. Another reason is many traditional Adventist beliefs, including health reform, have come under fire lately by not a few men and women who believe that these beliefs are outdated and need "modernizing." The ones who are mostly affected by this attempt are those who are not rooted and grounded in the truths of the Bible. Everything that we believe unto salvation must be substantiated by the Word of God. As I have stated before, the Scriptures are our ONLY SAFEGUARD against the errors and deceit that have crept into the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
When we MAKE UP OUR MINDS that we will obey God in matters of eating and drinking, it is then that we will be able to do all things through Christ who strengthens us (Phil. 4:13), and will be able to overcome ANY HABIT through the power of the Holy Spirit. Many are unable to conquer self because they vacillate and are unwilling to surrender all and yield to the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Even in light of this fact, I do not believe we are to pass judgment on any of our brothers and sisters.
We do not all arrive at the same point of spiritual development at the same time. Some of our brothers and sisters within our churches are still struggling with overcoming eating and drinking habits that are contrary to Scripture and the counsel of Ellen G. White. But we are not to point fingers. Instead, we are to be patient with them just as God is patient with us.
The bottom line is: a Christian who is seriously trying to obey God will eat and drink differently from others because he/she will follow that what is written in the Bible and the writings of Ellen G. White. Health rules are given to us by God because He created us and knows what is best for the human body.
M.A.
A lead-in question could be: "Why is it seemingly easier for some to control this "little member" more so than others?"
M.A.
In His love and grace, Richard
What were you meaning, Richard, as you said '...beneficial to look the other way' ?
Were you interjecting an idiom or leading us in a certain direction to look ?..but in which direction ?
I would be a fool to believe that the Grace of God is inefficient in any point to heal and make whole of soul problems. There is power in the Blood of the Lamb.
But reality does bring certain facts to light. Many are not made wholy whole, they still have cracks and odd thinking patterns after conversion but lead God fearing lives. They are sealed with the Spirit unto their Salvation. They are not veganers, or veggie people but are meat eaters and cake eaters and occasionally coffee drinkers or maybe a coke twice a year. I am veggie very consistantly myself but don't ever harbor the feeling I am more spiritual than those who are not veggies.
I have never studied the underlying currents of the various 'oral' addictions. But unfulfilled emotional needs drive many to that area for comfort. Many are 'oral' addictive by association. Something is in the past which hurts and in the past the 'oral' comfort was begun and continued as a habitual reflex.
I don't approve of any SDA making eating patterns the plus ultra for holiness.
JRüg.
I eat to stay alive. I am not one who even thinks much about food during the day. The taste buds are not my slave for determining what I eat. But one wishes some sort of enjoyment when 'doing the act'. :)
I agree that one cannot "eat" his/her way into Heaven. However, as Christians, we are obligated to observe and abide by the health reform principles as outlined in Scripture and the writings of Ellen G. White. Unfortunately, there are some who think they are "holier than thou" because of so-called "perfect" eating habits. However, I believe God is more concerned about how we TREAT ONE ANOTHER than He is about what we eat.
M.A.
So the Grace of God does teach us in our hearts to be holy in body which leads to honoring the kosher food codex, but it is to be subordinate to the laws of love in our fellowman interaction foremost.
Joan
There are indeed many "pharisees" that beat others over the head with the health message and have caused the message to fall into disdain. My comments were in regards to the statement "I need more testimonies from those who are living lives of overcoming because of being disciplined in eating habits." I don't believe this can be true. None can overcome sin because they eat right. We live holy lives because we are dead and Christ lives within. The fruit of the abiding presence of Christ is right doing in all areas that we have light in; correct health habits are only one. You have expressed the truth very clearly, we are not to judge one's Christian experience based upon what they eat (they may not understand), but rather on the love they have for God and their neighbor as shown by the fruits of the Spirit. We may know them by their fruits. The love we have one for another is seen, even by those in the world.
Temperance is one of those fruits. If temperance is lacking, then we may know that Jesus is not in the heart. Now, many eat pig and this does not mean they are intemperant, for they may be ignorant of the dangers. It is for those who know to do good and doeth it not that the Spirit speaks in condemnation. When we do that which we know is wrong, we hurt ourselves and we hurt our God. As we learn to love Him, we are granted power to not hurt Him and in turn we will not hurt ourselves. The motivation is not for ourselves first, but rather for our God who has given Himself for us. Since we cannot know the motives of another's heart, it would be good for us to judge our own hearts in this matter of eating and drinking and follow the Lord in presenting the beautiful truths of health reform that those who appreciate the truth may have it.
Many in the world want it and many in the church do not. Let us find those that want it and they will be good prospects for the kingdom of God. As they live the truth, their minds will become healthier and therefore they will be better able to reason with God as He speaks to their minds of His love. :) What a plan God has given us to reach out to the lost. I am getting into Dr. Dugald's love and that is a matter for another thread. :)
In His love and grace, Richard
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 1 Cor. 3:17.
One of the strongest temptations that man has to meet is upon the point of appetite. Between the mind and the body there is a mysterious and wonderful relation. They react upon each other. To keep the body in a healthy condition to develop its strength, that every part of the living machinery may act harmoniously, should be the first study of our life. To neglect the body is to neglect the mind. It cannot be to the glory of God for His children to have sickly bodies or dwarfed minds. To indulge the taste at the expense of health is a wicked abuse of the senses.
The Redeemer of the world knew that the indulgence of appetite would bring physical debility, and so deaden the perceptive organs that sacred and eternal things would not be discerned. Christ knew that the world was given up to gluttony and that this indulgence would pervert the moral powers. If the indulgence of appetite was so strong upon the race that, in order to break its power, the divine Son of God, in behalf of man, was required to fast nearly six weeks, what a work is before the Christian in order that he may overcome even as Christ overcame! The strength of the temptation to indulge perverted appetite can be measured only by the inexpressible anguish of Christ in that long fast in the wilderness.
Christ knew that in order to successfully carry forward the plan of salvation He must commence the work of redeeming man just where the ruin began. Adam fell by the indulgence of appetite. In order to impress upon man his obligations to obey the law of God, Christ began His work of redemption by reforming the physical habits of man.
Intemperance in eating, even of food of the right quality, will have a prostrating influence upon the system and will blunt the keener and holier emotions. Strict temperance in eating and drinking is highly essential for the healthy preservation and vigorous exercise of all the functions of the body.
The only safe course is to touch not, taste not, handle not, tea, coffee, wines, tobacco, opium, and alcoholic drinks. The necessity for the men of this generation to call to their aid the power of the will, strengthened by the grace of God, in order to withstand the temptations of Satan and resist the least indulgence of perverted appetite is twice as great as it was several generations ago
The Redeemer of the world came from heaven to help man in his weakness, that, in the power which Jesus came to bring him, he might become strong to overcome appetite and passion, and might be victor on every point (Testimonies, vol. 3, pp. 485-488).
----end of quote---
Received this in my devotional email the other day and wanted to post it before we went on to another subject.
In The Blessed Hope
Avalee
...good for you in posting that. Thumbs up !That was such beautifully well written counsel. Sound and firm. It appealed not only to my sense of rightness but I could follow it in it's logical structure. A real satisfying portion of testimony put for the sake of strengthing the uncertain meanderings of insecure thinkings pertaining to certain loved eating/drinking habits.
....Joan....
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are" (1 Cor. 3:16, 17).
In light of the above, because some meat today is so filled with disease and chemicals that are dangerous to the human body, is it therefore a sin to eat meat? Because of what is written in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14, I think not. Not all clean meats (for right now) are detrimental to the human body. Therefore, just because I don't eat meat does not make me better than those who do. Because many of us non-meat eaters freely consume animal products such as eggs, milk, butter, and cheese.
Mrs. White says in Counsels On Diet and Foods on page 380-81: "Among those who are waiting for the coming of the Lord, meat eating will eventually be done away; flesh will cease to form a part of their diet." How do we factor meat eaters who expect to be saved into the above statement?
M.A.
Again, Mrs. White says in Counsels on Diet and Foods on p. 380-81: "Among those who are waiting for the coming of the Lord, meat eating will eventually be done away; flesh will cease to form a part of their diet." In light of the quote above, all I can say on this matter is, to be on the safe side, it is best to eliminate flesh foods from the diet. I would not want to take the gamble.
M.A.
So they've stopped being meat eaters anyway.
For those of us getting resurrected from the dead and translated...welll....we had to died from some sort of malfunction if not right-out violent accident.
I suppose the role of bad temper or excess in some other area can cause chemical upsets that may lead to the cancer that does us in too. I haven't any clue how God does handle the overweighter from too much fat and sugar with a metabolism disfunction who died over those who died from malfunction because of absorbing animal impurities and the bodies chain reaction to it.
More important than living is how we live. Will we obey God or will we disobey Him. He has told us to not injure our bodies. If we love Him with all the heart, we will obey Him. When I disobey Him, it is because I do not love Him with the whole heart. How sad after all He has done for me. Christian discipline in diet and in all things comes as a result of a living, abiding relationship with Jesus. The new heart produces the fruits of the Spirit, one of which is temperance.
A solution for our problems! :) Jesus!
In His love and grace, Richard
1.) ...I never approach anything with discipline coming from my own strength. I don't have the hormones or mentality of a sportler who chastises his body under a schedule of daily hours routine wether he desires to or not. I was never raised under order, keeping of habits, routine or commands to fulfill.
2.) ...much of what has happened in my life was directly from the vision of God for me. I had goals, I loved these goal, I sacrificed to meet the requirements of these goals. I can not think of a moment I did something beyond my limitations. Being motivated by the truth of ..."..for what is not of faith is sin" I approached nothing unless I knew I had faith for it to get accomplished.
3.)..I see among your postings here the word Temperance as the crucial measuring cup. Going over the line of demarcation is intemperance. Eating three full balanced meals a day is Temperance in eating. Eating two meals a day is recommended but not duty.
Ellen W. was not a person of asthenic build. She was never a leptosome type. John Kellogg also. She was more of my type...pyknic. Prone to roundness more than long thinness.
After 50 she got a bit pouchy like a lot of us. Still she was never intemperate. Temperate means middle of the road with no extremes left or right.
4.) ...the emphasis shined though all your posting that one loving God will be obedient to God. To love Him is to obey Him.
Now with that I can identify. I am out to respond to love. I am wired to respond to love. If I am seeing a being is loving me I bend over backwards to respond to this love. I sacrifice and it is not painful even if it is painful. I love back with my willing to obey...to please.
So discipline smacks like goose step of the Nazi's...for me. Being loved and loving back by showing obedience is more of the gas in my tank to get me moving.
Only one problem exists. And I think I am not the only one who carries this problem. It's the disturbed (taught or trained from childhood) lack of love for oneself. The distainful disregard one holds toward oneself leading to neglect of caring for oneself to prolong one's life or give it a better living quality.
~~~~~~~Joan~~~~~~
(I am at the gym now three afternoons a week just because of meeting up with you guys, by the way ;D )
Your childhood experience has devalued your appreciation for your worth in the eyes of God. While you may not see any value in your life being extended, God does. He knows what you can do through Him. He put that willing desire to bend over backwards to serve Him. He knows of your faithfulness and He knows of each hurt that has molded your character. He was there watching and it is not a coincidence that 40 years later we are here with you discussing the matter. He brought you through these trials and has prepared you for service that will bring Him honor and glory.
While many who profess to keep the law or profess to love Jesus will not enter the kingdom, He is leading you as you follow so that you will enter it, and indeed have.
Many times we are mistaken in a belief and it has an effect on our whole being. Jesus attempts to correct this so that we can move forward. Your understanding of temperance is faulty. You say "Temperate means middle of the road with no extremes left or right." This is a worldly teaching of moderation, but it is incorrect for a Biblical model. Here is an inspired definition: "True temperance teaches us to abstain entirely from that which is injurious, and to use judiciously only healthful and nutritious articles of food."
In connection with this comes the counsel:
"Keep the work of health reform to the front, is the message I am instructed to bear. Show so plainly its value that a widespread need for it will be felt. Abstinence from all hurtful food and drink is the fruit of true religion. He who is thoroughly converted will abandon every injurious habit and appetite. By total abstinence he will overcome his desire for health-destroying indulgences."
Such precious light that our Lord has entrusted to our care. Shall we share it with the world?
In His love and grace, Richard
I have a couple of comments/questions;
1. It is fine for the SDAs to follow Mrs. White's advice to do away with eating meat, but what about those christians who do not have a benefit of Mrs. White's advice. I have read from Mrs. White's writing also that there aren't too many SDAs would be saved! As Christ ate meat including fish a large number of christians believe that there is nothing wrong with meat eating.
2. Why do those who were raised with vegetarian diet grow up and stray into eating meat? I have raised both of my kids vegetarian, now they are grown up and married, they eat meat along with their SDA spouses. What have I done wrong. It breaks my heart, granted there aren't too many choices of non-meat dishes in restaurants, and if there are they are not so tasty dishes either. What suggestion can one give to those who eat meat knowing all the facts about Mrs's White advice, and the facts given by this world that meat is not a healthy food? It is so sad to see those enjoy, I mean, really enjoy eating meat. My reason for not eating meat is not the religeous reason or Mrs's White's advice. These could have strengthened my conviction, though.
I was told by my mother that when we sat down for a dinner one evening(I was about 6 yrs old) my sister asked me, do you know how they made this meat dish? I said no. Then my sister said that they cut open the cow's head to make this beef dish. Ever since, I have not touched the meat at all. Well, any way, I would appreciate if some one can give me some sort of opnion on above two questions of mine.
Won
Christ is mentioned in the Bible as having eaten fish, but I don't know of anywhere it can be found that he ate meat. In quoting Christ in the passage that reads: "...I have meat to eat that ye know not of" (John 4:32), the word "meat" is translated in my Bible to mean "food." The same is true for the words of Christ in Matthew 25:35.
Even if Christ did eat meat, flesh foods in His day were not filled with dangerous chemicals and growth agents (that can cause cancer) as they are today. We have enough evidence at present, both scientific and otherwise, to know that eating some meats today can be a dangerous health proposition. And it's going to get worse! But, just as with the use of tobacco, in spite of the evidence that speaks to the contrary, there are still many who use even this deadly product.
Briefly, concerning those who are unaware of the dangers of consuming animal flesh, the Lord knows all of our hearts. He knows whether or not we could have known what we need to know. For those who did not have the opportunity to fully understand the danger of eating flesh foods prior to His return, I believe the Lord "winks" at their ignorance
(Acts 17:30).
Finally Bro. Won, from what I can gather, I believe you have done an excellent job of rearing your children, but sometimes, as with the prodigal son, they will stray from the way in which they should go. We need to pray for our children and leave whatever the burden at the feet of Jesus. I firmly believe that at the proper time when Adventist warnings begin to come to fruition, those who have strayed away and are wise will return to the foundational principles as taught by this church (SDA) and be saved in God's Kingdom.
Happy Sabbath.
M.A.
Wasn't that a uplift of comfort what Br. M. wrote that we needn't bash ourselves for having done right in the raising of our kids and they go off and play the prodigal?
The famine may indeed come to our love ones like the parable prodigal who have side stepped the better truths and they in wisdom will then look up and leave the wrong way of what is harmful, to grasp the right ways of life and how to please the Lord in the best way as possible.
The enviroment has terrible pulls even for those train up in the ways of SOP.
...Joan.....
[This message has been edited by Joan Rügemer (edited 09-25-2000).]
I hope you are counting yourself blessed above all men what with that beautiful blue- background-lovely font for Bible Study-floating-bible icon up left-hand corner.
Shortly, everso quickly, came also to Social Hall such a picture icon. But do to gemlins unknown, it vanished. Wauf !
Most likely because some wee imp told the designer that the Joan would love a square up-left icon with little gremlins of the fine type, a few tinker-bells flying around with leprecauns and perhaps a tooth-fairy or two. Joan's favorite color combination is green/yellow/white/blues
So my coming picture is still in the making I take it... :P
^^^^^^Joan^^^^^^
M.A.
If not than watch how you fly like a tooth-fairy through cyberspace when you put your arrow-cursor-turned-hand-with-pointing-finger on it and click.
;D joan
My question is: "Why is it easier for some to control this 'little member' more so than others?"
M.A.
But then there are curious badgers like me, rambling into a chicken coop with one little sentence and all feathers start flying ! Some sure do get upset when asked a simple personal direct question. You'd think I just found the key to their Fort Knox and are coming in to rob away all their hidden treasures.
Tongues that set situation on fire are indeed dangerous. Not using the brain to size up cause and effect before putting the tongue into gear has gotten social avalanches rolling. Perhaps the most damage is done by heartless, inconsiderate thoughtlessness.
But maybe many want to hurt others with there tongues for the pleasure of control over them. Or for the sake of getting revenge. Maybe for the sake of envy and wanting 'them' to fall from the pedestal of Advantage or Happiness one thinks they are sitting on in enjoyment.
It's easy to talk in the third person. I always hate it when the whole adult Sabbath School class does it. Nobody gets personal. It's always this analysing a problem belonging to someone else.
One doesn't want to admit directly himself to the impulsive habit of backbiting others who have just said something that puts one in a bad frame of light. In group talk one talks always about the others who do it. No body hardly says among us..'hey, look at me...I say the 'f' word when I get mad and the 's' word mostly each time I am ticked off or annoyed deeply.'... Such true life confessions one doesn't get among us in S.S. Class but we sure do tear down others who do such things in their lives.
Joan
"...in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, THE SAME IS A PERFECT MAN, and able also to bridle the whole body. Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body. Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven by fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth. Even so the tongue is a litle member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
"And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind. But THE TONGUE CAN NO MAN TAME; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. Therefore BLESS WE GOD, even the Father, AND therewith CURSE WE MEN, which are made after the similitude of God. OUT OF THE SAME MOUTH proceedeth blessing amd cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be" (James 3:2-10, Emphasis mine).
Any comments?
M.A.
James is not talking about those who are in the world. He is describing the characteristics of some who call themselves Christians! Could the answer to this dilemma revolve around self-discipline and self-control? If we can't achieve these two-fold desirable qualities on our own, how are we to do so? We understand they are achieved through the "Power of God," via "the Holy Spirit," but how do we place ourselves in the proper spiritual posture to receive this Power?
I am sure we have a number of individuals who can shed light on this important subject.
M.A.
Not being able to understand the workings of this taming of the tongue.
Perhaps we shouldn't give to much attention to the area of speach itself without first directing attention to the vast area of support behind the tongue which is as I see it the emotional life of the individual.
That vast unknown of natural disposition. The combination of mental mindset, personal values, emotional traits.
I don't know if one who is firery with his passions sins more with his speach than one who is cool calm and collected.
Prudence of speach comes when one is filled with wisdom from above to use knowledge rightly to inform, heal a situation or expose evil.
Evil of pride, self-seeking, wanting to boast, revenge seeking or using lies to gain personal advantage are spiritual motivations that get the tongue wagging badly.
I know so many who have a disposition to bad temper. I hate being around such persons like that who fly off the handle, have their volcanic erruption with bad sounds and words, then cool down and go on with talk as if nothing happened. I can't stand being around such ones. I never trust them. A quick hot-temper and propensitiy to anger in a person makes me frigid to them in communication. I shy away from them.
God bless those who are patient and longsuffering. They don't have to be lethargic or phegmatic but in control of their temper.
Funny how we over look that the fruit of the spirit is including 'self-control' in that list of nine.
The question is..."whose doing the self-controlling ? The person him/herself or the Spirit of the indwelling Christ."?
....Joan...
We are all human. When someone "rubs us the wrong way," the natural tendency is to let that individual know he/she has done so by "giving him/her a piece of our minds." However, this is not the way of Christ. Therefore, in order for us to control the tongue we must determine in our hearts that our response will be a Christlike one through the power of the Holy Spirit.
One asks, "How do we get this power?" BY FAITH! We are able to resist because we MAKE UP OUR MINDS that we are going to do what Christ would do, and no one (or no thing) will be able to stop us! We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us.
In other words, WE HAVE TO WANT IT to the degree that NO POWER ON EARTH will deter us from our goal of resisting evil through Christ by way of the Holy Spirit. But we have to want it---REALLY WANT IT!
As should be obvious to all, this is not something that comes about automatically. We must pray and PRAY HARD that God will give us the HOLY GHOST POWER that we stand in need of in order to control our anger and our tongue when someone does evil toward us.
Because we do not know from whom or when this will occur, we must DAILY keep our "spiritual guard" up in order that the enemy will not catch us unawares, causing us to say or do something we will regret because we are not "spiritually clad" as we should be.
M.A.
We have to make choices of some kind every day. In order to make right choices we, first of all, have to KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT and then determine it in our hearts that we are going to DO that which is right; which brings up another important point.
The source of that which is right is the Word of God which, unfortunately, many are woefully lacking in understanding what is required primarily because of a lack of study on their part. This "lackadaisical" attitude toward Scripture is one of the main reasons why many are so spiritually "emanciated" and do not possess the will power to overcome the temptations of the enemy, including bridling the tongue.
Someone has said: "much prayer, much power; little prayer, little power; no prayer, no power!" As stated before, it will take a Power outside of ourselves to overcome these natural tendencies that we all possess to retaliate when wronged . The question is: How badly do we want this power?
Food for thought.
M.A.
There is nothing wrong with reading supplementary materials. However, I believe the problem arises when these materials that ARE NOT BIBLE-BASED begin to SUPPLANT what "Thus saith the Lord" and become our guide.
We must get back to basics. We must get back to the Word of God and order our lives after the instruction contained there.
M.A.
There is a connection between one's faith which is so much spoken of, and the study of the Word. What is the connection? Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word! :)
Richard
I think you are right on target. We must be "born again" in order to have this power. How badly do we want it? What is an eternity with Jesus worth? What is the salvation of our families worth? Only a blind man would not give all for this power! :) I guess that makes us blind some of the time. :(
But, Jesus does not give up on us. He calls us to Him, even now! :)
Richard
M.A.
Sincerely, your brother in Christ
Richard
"Among those who are awaiting for the coming of the Lord, meat-eating will eventually be done away; flesh will cease to form a part of their diet...."
M.A.
Sincerely your brother in Christ.
In His love and grace, Richard
Another problem I have encountered is the "fruits" by which we are to "know them"...The question I have is simply this...I struggle daily with several very real "sins" in my life. These quite honestly include but are not limited to: anger; resulting from that is a most horrible rash of cursing,etc. There is also a noteable problem with lying. They are, for the most part un-challengable, because know one really cares one way or another, except the fact that I "embilish" the "truth" with these lies...
The point being, we all "sin"...As I have grown in Christ, the "symptoms" of my rebellion or lawlessness will to one degree or another, and in one place of my life or another, change in a moments notice...I am, as it were, without control just as asuredly as before I became a Christian...However, with one exception...Now, as I recognize my "willfulness" and error, I lift what ever it is to God and simply admit that I am powerless to "overcome" this habit, sin, or what ever...Asking Him to do the "miricle of changing my heart" so that I may serve Him better...What else can we do?
Brother Crawford's comment that "we have choices each and every day" brings many thoughts to mind...One of which is this. If, like myself, you have recently come into this truth [SDA], I am often confronted with a "choice". This choice is just as often brought to my attention with an added conviction that "should I choose this, that will be it's natural result"...and vise versa.
Quite often, I find that some of these choices actually are not choices at all. I have come from a dispicatable and hopeless past. And, for me to turn back now is not an option...You know what I mean? On the other hand, some of these choices are a real struggle for me...They "cut across the grain of my life and/or life styles" in such a way that I often do not realize how deep the intent, or motive is actually being addressed. Satan is clever...And, he is also a "defeated" foe. I may only place my trust in the One who has promised that; "He is able to keep me from falling, and to present me faultless"...This is something I cannot do for myself; however, in His infinite ability to do the "impossible" in my life, I have assurence in the evidence which He has thus far provided, that He CAN DO IT...Perhaps inspite of myself :)!
Blessings
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for us to do anything in this life that would qualify us for the Eternal Realm. This is why we are saved ONLY through the merits of Jesus Christ and what He has done. He lived a Perfect Life FOR US because we could not live one for ourselves. And NO ONE shall stand in the presence of God at any time and live unless he/she is perfect (Matt. 5:48).
Perfection is possible ONLY through Christ. The Bible gives us the key as to how we become perfect. The Scriptures tell us to "put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 13:14) because only He can cover our sins. This next point is very important in our understanding of how we are saved.
When we accept Christ and make His way our way of life, from that moment on we are justified by God. But notice! We remain justified ONLY as long as we CONTINUE to make Christ's Way our way (Rom. 2:13). Each time we sin, we must be forgiven of that sin because NO SIN will enter into Heaven (1 John 2:1). And we are forgiven of sin WHEN WE STOP SINNING that particular sin through faith in the Power of God to help us to overcome.
This is what Christ is doing in the Most Holy Place. He is pleading our case before the Most High God as our Advocate, High Priest, and Mediator. He takes our case before God. That is why without Him it would be impossible to be saved because there would be no one to bridge the unpassable gulf between sinful man and a Holy God.
We cannot come to God on our own. Only that which is Holy can come into the presence of Him who is Holy. It requires someone to stand in our stead. And that Someone is Jesus Christ. THIS is the Good News of the Gospel. When we honestly and truly "cover with His Life" (SDA Hymn No. 412) our sins and iniquities and have His Law written in our inward parts, God says He will remember them no more (Jer. 31:34). WHAT WONDERFUL NEWS! This is why we are not to worry about our past sins because GOD IS ABLE, and He will cleanse us of ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS through Jesus Christ our Lord, IF we will only let Him!
M.A.