Author Topic: New Covenant experience  (Read 58355 times)

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Richard Myers

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #140 on: January 16, 2015, 09:34:54 AM »
Thank you, Ed.  Excellent work!   We now have the Bible verses that tell us not only that this is the first covenant, but it tells us exactly what the covenant promised. You have gone further in pointing out that when the covenant has been fulfilled and the mystery is finished, we have another event that is taking place. God is very thorough and gives us enough light that we may know we are on the right track. Time is coming to an end very soon!!

Now, dear brother, let us tie things up and narrow this down so others who do not yet see can understand the fundamentals involved. We want to simplify and add one other ingredient. I know this is going to be a test for you, your mind wants to expand into all that there is.  :)   And, we are going to expand by bringing back into our study the "old covenant". It is important because it has been mis-taught within the church, just as the new covenant has been perverted. When the covenants are correctly understood, then much of the New Testament, Paul's writings, will be better understood since his burden was to reveal the difference between the old and new covenant. At the same time, let us present this in its simplicity, leaving out the other important lessons that go beyond the foundation of our faith. We are looking now at the most important matter. What must I do to be saved, not what God is going to do with the 144,000. It is at the foundation of our faith that Satan has been so successful with his deceptions. Let's get that right before we go to the rest of the story.

Let Ed or other of our Bible scholars reveal the bottom line that involves the "everlasting covenant", the "old covenant", and the "new covenant".  For what purpose are they presented?

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Ed Sutton

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #141 on: January 16, 2015, 04:07:49 PM »
God even gave a nail in a sure place that Bible students across the centuries could know that they were accurately following the proper time line of the ďnew covenantĒ as they studied.

Isaiah 22:
20  And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
21  And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22  And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23  And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his fatherís house.
24  And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his fatherís house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons.
25  In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the LORD hath spoken it.

God did not say that this would be Hilkiahís offspring through the tribe of Levi, but He would rule and possess what Godís covenant gave to David, this servant would be High Priest, Ruler, of the lineage of the tribe of Judah, not Levi.  This was not priesthood through Aaron & Moses.  This ruler as Priest would sum the silver into Godís kingdom, and be the only nail in a sure place. 

2 Kings 22:4  Go up to Hilkiah the high priest, that he may sum the silver which is brought into the house of the LORD, which the keepers of the door have gathered of the people:

Isaiah 9:
6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7  Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Daniel 9:
23  At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25  Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26  And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Revelation 1:18  I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 3:7  And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Both the original covenant of Genesis 3:15 and the "new covenant" of writing His laws within and imputing and imparting righteousness > have a mission.   

That mission is told in Malachi 4:

1 ∂  For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2  But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3  And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
4 ∂  Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5  Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6  And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

   For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. Deuteronomy 32:22.  {UL 261.1} 

     Every satanic agency is now at work with power from beneath. The day of death is not set before us in the Word as the great constraining motive impelling us to be wide awake and determined in improving our opportunities. What motive does God present in His Word to all His workers? . . . "The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly" (Zephaniah 1:14). And before the coming of this last great day, we are to proclaim the last message of mercy to a fallen world, to prepare men and women for the Lord's second coming.  {UL 261.2} 

     Everything that can be devised by the enemy to occupy the mind, and to divert attention from this message, will be devised. But we are to go forward in the proclamation of the Word of the Lord. The end of all things is at hand. The coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory, is very near. . . .  {UL 261.3} 

     In the day of His coming, the last great trumpet is heard, and there is a terrible shaking of earth and heaven. The whole earth, from the loftiest mountains to the deepest mines, will hear. Everything will be penetrated by fire. The tainted atmosphere will be cleansed by fire. The fire having fulfilled its mission, the dead that have been laid away in the grave will come forth--some to the resurrection of life, to be caught up to meet their Lord in the air, and some to behold the coming of Him whom they have despised and whom they now recognize as the Judge of all the earth.  {UL 261.4} 

     All the righteous are untouched by the flames. They can walk through the fire, as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego walked in the midst of the furnace heated seven times hotter than it was wont to be heated. The Hebrew worthies could not be consumed, because the form of the fourth, the Son of God, was with them. So in the day of the coming of the Lord, smoke and flame will be powerless to harm the righteous. Those who are united with the Lord will escape unscathed. Earthquakes, hurricanes, flame, and flood cannot injure those who are prepared to meet their Saviour in peace. But those who rejected our Saviour, and scourged and crucified Him, will be among those who will be raised from the dead to behold His coming in the clouds of heaven, attended by the heavenly host--ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands. . . .  {UL 261.5} 

     This scene has been presented before me as fully as I could bear to behold it. Then the scene has changed, and scenes of things existing at the present time have passed before me--Manuscript 159, Sept. 4, 1903, "A Message to Leading Physicians."  {UL 261.6} 

      Just as soon as the people of God are sealed in their foreheads--it is not any seal or mark that can be seen, but a settling into the truth, both intellectually and spiritually, so they cannot be moved--just as soon as God's people are sealed and prepared for the shaking, it will come. Indeed, it has begun already; the judgments of God are now upon the land, . . . that we may know what is coming.
 {FLB 287.7}

God's Ideal for His Church

     That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Ephesians 5:27. {FLB 288.1} 

     The Lord God is a jealous God; yet He bears long with the sins and transgressions of His people in this generation. If the people of God had walked in His counsel, the work of God would have advanced, the messages of truth would have been borne to all people that dwell on the face of the whole earth. . . . But because the people are disobedient, unthankful, unholy, as were ancient Israel, time is prolonged that all may hear the last message of mercy proclaimed with a loud voice. The Lord's work has been hindered, the sealing time delayed. Many have not heard the truth. But the Lord will give them a chance to hear and be converted.  {FLB 288.2} 

     What are you doing . . . in the great work of preparation? Those who are uniting with the world are receiving the worldly mold and preparing for the mark of the beast. Those who are distrustful of self, who are humbling themselves before God and purifying their souls by obeying the truth--these are receiving the heavenly mold and preparing for the seal of God in their foreheads. When the decree goes forth and the stamp is impressed, their character will remain pure and spotless for eternity. Now is the time to prepare. The seal of God will never be placed upon the forehead of an impure man or woman. It will never be placed upon the forehead of the ambitious, world-loving man or woman. It will never be placed upon the forehead of men or women of false tongues or deceitful hearts. All who receive the seal must be without spot before God--candidates for heaven.  {FLB 288.3} 

     Every individual soul, if he would receive the seal of the living God, must hear the Word of the Lord, and do it with exactitude. There must be no such thing as haphazard religion if men would have a place in the family of God.  {FLB 288.4}     

Christ travails in prayer and intercession in unsleeping work to purify and save people to the uttermost making them more precious than gold. To this end He directs their attention to His messages . 

Isaiah 13:12  I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

Psalms 145:17  The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.

Mark 7:
18  And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19  Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20  And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21  For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22  Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23  All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

1 Corinthians 3:17  If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Christ suffered being guilty of our every defilement since Gethsemane, His Trial, Calvary - and He longs to free us utterly from them all, starting with our imaginations, hearts, minds, lives, and all that pertains to us.

Titus 1:15  Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Hebrews 12:15  Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Revelation 21:27  And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lambís book of life.

Christ offers to eternally free us from defiled hearts and minds and broken aging bodies forever.   If only we will surrender, allow, cooperate, obey, choose to take Christ at His words.

Revelation 22:11  He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

But the text does not only speak of the holy and righteous it contains a dire warning. 
Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}


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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #142 on: February 16, 2015, 01:24:27 AM »
We are looking now at the most important matter. What must I do to be saved, not what God is going to do with the 144,000. It is at the foundation of our faith that Satan has been so successful with his deceptions. Let's get that right before we go to the rest of the story.

Let Ed or other of our Bible scholars reveal the bottom line that involves the "everlasting covenant", the "old covenant", and the "new covenant".  For what purpose are they presented?

The promise given to Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:15, as I understand it was the new and the everlasting covenant (new and everlasting covenant being the same covenant). When God said that he will put enmity between the woman, her seed, and between the serpent and his seed, it was God putting in the woman's seed a hatred (enmity) for the the serpent's seed.  For God to put enmity in the woman, her seed and against the serpent's seed, it has to be done in the heart. And if we have a hatred (enmity) for the serpent and what he stands for, the only other option is the opposite, love for God. And if you love God, love is the fulfillment of the law. So that means that the law (covenant) would have been written in Adam and Eve's heart just as well as in our hearts today. So in my explanation of the covenants and the purpose why they are presented in the Bible: 1) To show that the everlasting covenant is a work of God to put in the heart. 2) we can't keep Gods covenant on our own, which is the old covenant. So then in salvation, we can allows God to write His laws (covenant) in our heart.  And of coarse we need to accept the sacrifice of Jesus (Genesis 3:21), which would be the basis of the everlasting covenant, in turn is the everlasting gospel. The everlasting covenant in a nutshell.  :) [size=78%] [/size]

Richard Myers

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #143 on: February 16, 2015, 10:14:39 AM »
Amen!  Welcome to our study Kaniela.  There is much confusion and even error in this subject. I believe I understand what you have stated. Let me see if I can restate it to clarify exactly what it means to "put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed." Tell me if I have expressed it in the manner you see it.

"Enmity" is a hatred. Why would God tell Satan that he would put a hatred between him and the woman? We know why God would want that, but why is it necessary? Because when Adam and Eve sinned they were then aligned with Satan and sin. There was no hatred towards Satan or sin. This extends to Adam's offspring, all of humanity. It is our inheritance, a fallen evil human nature that has no hatred towards Satan and sin. It is very sad to understand there are those in our church that do not believe this. So, it is most important that we begin right on this foundation of our faith. The "everlasting covenant" is the foundation of our faith. It is the promise to put this enmity towards sin in our hearts. It is not there naturally, it comes when we are converted and filled with the Spirit of God. Love for God and truth replaces our enmity towards God. Our love of sin is replaced with enmity towards sin. This is why Jesus said "   That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." John 3:6,7.

Kaniela, you have gotten to the truth of the matter, this enmity has to do with the heart. God does not change our flesh until Jesus returns. So, we are left with sinful flesh, but the heart is changed when we make a full surrender to Jesus. Then we are given power to keep the flesh under the control of the mind and heart that are under the control of Christ. When we abide in Christ and He in us, then we are partakers of His divine nature and escape the corruption that is not only in the world, but in our flesh. Romans seven explains our flesh very clearly. Romans eight explains what happens when one is converted and abiding in Christ and the Spirit of Christ is in us. We have a hatred for sin that we do not have when we are separated from Jesus.

Kaniela, you went on to say that the everlasting covenant is the new covenant. Amen! You stated that "we need to accept the sacrifice of Jesus." Yes, there is no enmity until we are converted. The law of God is written on the heart at the moment of conversion, not one second before, and it will not remain in the heart if we are not abiding in Christ and He in us. To write the law upon the heart is to put enmity towards sin. It is the power to keep the law of God. And, it is most important that we go on beyond the "milk" to better understand the writings of Paul in the New Testament. This would be understanding the "old covenant". The old covenant was quite different from the covenant in Genesis 3:15 and the "new covenant". There was no promise to write the law upon the heart. It was very plainly stated as "obey and live". You stated "we can't keep Gods covenant on our own."  But, the people said they would do all that God had asked.

Kaniela, have I rightly represented what you believe? If not correct where I erred from what you have stated. And, share with us if you have a thought, as to why God made such a covenant as the "old covenant" with Israel?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.


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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #144 on: February 16, 2015, 04:30:20 PM »
Yes Richard you have quite understood my post and rightly portrayed my understanding of the original, new, and everlasting covenant.
As to my thoughts to why God made the old covenant with the children of Israel is this, when Moses delivered the Ten Commandments to them, it was only to show them Gods will. It had nothing to do with HOW they were to keep them. It was the children of Israel who stated to Moses that whatever God has spoken, we will do, without letting God state the conditions of the covenant in how it would be fulfilled (God writing them in their hearts). But God being who he is, was not about to deny them their response, and so allowed them their own way. Incidentally, I'm sure they meant well, but there may seem a way that's right to a man but are the ways of death. And don't we get that way with God at times (at least I do) at jumping to conclusions before we hear out the whole matter of God. MARANATHA !   :)

Richard Myers

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #145 on: February 16, 2015, 06:06:46 PM »
Amen, Kaniela.  As we get older, we have the aided benefit of experience. Our ways do not work.  :)

Adding a little to your thought on why God entered into the "old covenant" which is "obey and live".  Israel had just come out long years of slavery. They had not been making sacrifices so they did not know about Jesus and His sacrifice to be made for mankind. They had no idea they needed a Savior. God knew that in their case, experience would be the best teacher. They meant it when they said they would obey, but they did not know themselves anymore than did Peter when he was walking on water. Peter had many opportunities to see his need of a Savior, but when Christ hung upon the cross, He lost his faith. But, he had learned about his vile self when he denied Jesus.

The Pharisees even after almost 2,000 years of the temple services which all pointed to Jesus, thought that they too  could keep the law of God without a Savior. Paul is a good example of how they believed prior to his conversion. Amazing that with the temple services that they could not know of their need of Jesus. David understood. But, the sacrifices had been perverted and even the disciples did not know that the Lamb was Jesus and He must die.

How is it today in professing Christian churches? Do they understand the gospel of grace and the power that comes with Jesus when we die to self and live for Him? Do we understand our continual need of His Spirit to do any good thing?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.