Author Topic: New Covenant experience  (Read 35108 times)

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Richard Myers

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #120 on: July 23, 2010, 11:26:16 AM »
Adam's and Eve's “unbelief” regarding who God truly is, caused them to act selfishly and choose to sin. They now reflected their corrupted belief of who they now thought God was: self-focused, a lier and looking out for Himself: “The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

The same with the Israelites: “And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:18,19).  Unbelief leads to disobedience. It is a reflection of the lies believed about God, and the veil in our own minds that keeps us distant from Him, out of the holy place.

So, Jesus in is His condescention, and His sacrifice and what it accomplished, and, it seems, the call to us for self-sacrifice, is the difference. He corrects our unbelief.

“Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water” (Hebrews 10:19-22).

Jesus came that we might believe, and reconciled us to God through a renewed belief in the character of God. He reconciled us through His death, the ultimate self-sacrifice of Life itself, showing us what He is willing to do, what His will is, “not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance”.

“And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--” (Colossians 1:21,22).

Just the fact that we believe cleanses us. Our belief unites us together with Him:

Amen!  Yes, we believe, but more important, since the devils believe, we have no "unbelief". There is no greater sin than unbelief. The devils have unbelief even though they believe.  You have come to an important understanding, Donna. The problem is with unbelief. We must believe with the whole heart, not just a part of it. Unbelief shows a lack of faith in God and His promises.

Quote
And we fall deeply in love with the beauthy that unfolds before us. Every law that seemed a threatening rule becomes our eager pleasure. Through our restored belief and reconciliation, we know Him. And in knowing Him, we know His great love. It just gets better and better. Knowing and growing in His great love, we know true freedom, and are blessed with and by real life. But David knew this before the new covenant. Is that because he was a prophet?

Grace is everything. God's love is what moves us. We have a topic on The New Covenant Experience. It is not an easy subject. It is not "milk" but rather meat.  You are in a position to understand the difference between the old and new covenants. Let's continue this in that topic in the Bread of Life Forum.  The new covenant is the same as the everlasting covenant. That is why David knew of it and had the law written upon his heart. Abraham knew, Adam knew, Abel knew, Enoch knew, Elijah knew, Ezekiel knew, Solomon knew, and yes, King David knew. They all knew Jesus Christ as the "lamb of God".

{These posts were moved into this thread from another topic. RM}
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Mimi

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #121 on: September 11, 2010, 08:59:31 PM »
I listened to a sermon today on The Sermon on the Mount. Throughout it, you will note Jesus' words:

Matthew 5:21, 22: "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time ... But I say unto you ..."

Verses 27 & 28: "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time ... But I say unto you ..."

Verses 31 & 32: "It hath been said ... But I say unto you ..."

Verses 33 & 34: "Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time ... But I say unto you ..."

Verses 38 & 39: "Ye have heard that it hath been said ... "But I say unto you ..."

Verses 43 & 44: Ye have heard that it hath been said ... But I say unto you ..."

Although I have read that sermon many times, this next thought did not truly register. In this most important sermon, Jesus was setting the stage for the imminent end of the old covenant and the implementation of the new. I had not looked at the Sermon on the Mount in that way in the past and others may take it for granted it is true. It was a very nice revelation. 

  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Richard Myers

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #122 on: October 23, 2010, 05:16:42 PM »
Amen!!!  The Jews were steeped in Old Covenant theology. They had no idea that they were saved by grace. They really thought that sacrificing a lamb was going to earn them a right to heaven. They did not know they were dead in trespasses and sins. They thought that if they kept the law they had earned their right to heaven.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Mimi

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #123 on: October 23, 2010, 05:37:53 PM »
Quote
They had no idea that they were saved by grace.
Even though Adam knew it, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, even Enoch knew it.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Richard Myers

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #124 on: October 23, 2010, 05:47:05 PM »
Amen!  Sadly many do not understand that the lessons were learned early on.  Instruction was given as to what the symbolism represented.  Satan brought in lies and perverted the teaching just as he has today.  It got so perverted that even though John the Baptist had said "Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world" he did not understand that the Lamb would have to die.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Peter L

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #125 on: March 02, 2013, 10:10:55 PM »
Exodus 34:28 KJV
(28) And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Exodus 24:7-8 KJV
(7)  And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
( 8 )  And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.

First the old covenant was given then they used blood

Hebrews 9:12 KJV
(12) Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Then with the new covenant, first the covenant was given then was the blood. The new covenant was sealed with the blood of Christ. The old used the blood of animals while the new the blood of Christ. So then according to the verses the old covenant is the 10 commandments covered by the blood of animals the new is the 10 commandments covered by the blood of Christ. Mercy and truth.

Psalms 89:14 KJV
(14) Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

wigina

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #126 on: June 17, 2013, 09:19:07 PM »
A covenant with the soul for the covenant with the body failed. God shows us so. For now we are not to think about satans lie to make filthy our bodies for that is the only part He has control of But to give our souls to Christ for that is the part we are in control of. If then Jesus is in control of our soul He will put His Holy of Holies in our souls so that we do not have to wait a whole year to seek for true forgiveness. But everyday nay every second like Enoch we can seek forgiveness. And when we are able to do this sin shall flee away and his place will not be found in us. That, is the beauty of the new commandment. And oh! Doesn't the Lords commandment dwell graciously in the Holy of Holies.........

Richard Myers

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #127 on: January 14, 2015, 05:53:27 AM »
This is an important subject, not so much because one must understand to be saved, but because of the error that has been taught. As we learn more about the covenants, we not only gain a better knowledge of God  and the plan of salvation, we are better protected from the lies that have come into the church. They are on every hand. The "omega" of apostasy will lead many astray, but a correct understanding of the covenants will protect us from this great deception.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #128 on: January 14, 2015, 06:24:35 AM »
Quote
They had no idea that they were saved by grace.
Even though Adam knew it, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, even Enoch knew it.

Under which covenant were they saved?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #129 on: January 14, 2015, 06:32:11 AM »

We are joined to Him through Christ, and are able to enter with Christ into the holy place and be in the presence of the Father. We have been allowed intimacy with God. We took the first step through faith. Believing who He is through Christ's example and demonstration of self-sacrifice, we now, “with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit” ( 1Corinthians 3:18).

And we fall deeply in love with the beauty that unfolds before us. Every law that seemed a threatening rule becomes our eager pleasure. Through our restored belief and reconciliation, we know Him. And in knowing Him, we know His great love. It just gets better and better. Knowing and growing in His great love, we know true freedom, and are blessed with and by real life. But David knew this before the new covenant. Is that because he was a prophet?

No, the new covenant is not the first covenant of grace. All who have been saved were saved by grace, many years before the death of Christ. It is our privilege to understand the covenant under which salvation was granted to them. It was not the old covenant. It promised death to all who broke the law. The new covenant was a better covenant based upon better promises. Let our scholars find the covenant that promised life to King David.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Mimi

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #130 on: January 14, 2015, 09:51:31 AM »
Quote
They had no idea that they were saved by grace.
Even though Adam knew it, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, even Enoch knew it.

Under which covenant were they saved?

The everlasting covenant first stated in Genesis:

Gen 3:15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 The divine sentence pronounced against Satan after the fall of man, was also a prophecy, embracing all the ages to the close of time, and foreshadowing the great conflict to engage all the races of men who should live upon the earth. 4SP, 325
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Richard Myers

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #131 on: January 14, 2015, 12:09:28 PM »
Amen, Mimi!  But, I fear that many will not understand how this can be a covenant to save man. Does it compare to the Old Covenant made at Sinai, or the New Covenant which was ratified by the blood of Christ?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Mimi

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #132 on: January 14, 2015, 12:26:49 PM »
The everlasting covenant and the new covenant (ratified by the blood of Christ Jesus) are the same in that a way was made for the salvation of mankind.

The old Sinai covenant contained "obey and live" at the same time the wilderness tabernacle was built to show them a better covenant was on the way.

Maybe this will help:

    God . . . gave them [Israel] His law, with the promise of great blessings on condition of obedience: "If ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then . . . ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." Exodus 19:5, 6. The people did not realize the sinfulness of their own hearts, and that without Christ it was impossible for them to keep God's law; and they readily entered into covenant with God. Feeling that they were able to establish their own righteousness, they declared, "All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient." Exodus 24:7. They had witnessed the proclamation of the law in awful majesty, and had trembled with terror before the mount; and yet only a few weeks passed before they broke their covenant with God, and bowed down to worship a graven image. They could not hope for the favor of God through a covenant which they had broken; and now, seeing their sinfulness and their need of pardon, they were brought to feel their need of the Saviour revealed in the Abrahamic covenant, and shadowed forth in the sacrificial offerings. . . .  {FLB 78.3} 
     The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them;" but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5; Deuteronomy 27:26. The "new covenant" was established upon "better promises"--the promise of forgiveness of sins, and of the grace of God to renew the heart, and bring it into harmony with the principles of God's law.  {FLB 78.4} 
     The only means of salvation is provided under the Abrahamic covenant.
 
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Ed Sutton

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #133 on: January 14, 2015, 04:01:38 PM »
Gen 3:15 the original covenant of the righteousness of Christ, and the old covenant sinners promise to God in Eden before expulsion ='s what the people said at Sinai "we will obey" (in our own strength & righteousness ), and the new covenant > God would write His law in the heart so the people would obey in His strength and His righteousness. and not seek to establish their own righteousness by creature merits.
Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}

Richard Myers

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #134 on: January 14, 2015, 05:39:11 PM »
Amen and amen!  The "old covenant" was obey and live. The covenant made in Genesis, known as the "everlasting covenant" was the same as the "new covenant". It promised to change man, to give him a power to obey the law. Man does not have power to obey the law in and of himself. At Sinai, when Israel promised to obey God, they were ignorant of their evil fallen nature. They could do no good thing unless they would be converted. But, this they did not understand until they broke the covenant.  Even then, they did not really understand how evil they were by nature. How is it today? Many think that they do not need to keep the law, that God will overlook their "little sins". How many believe that God can cleanse them of all sin? Well....that is the promise of the everlasting covenant and the new covenant, but not the old covenant.

We need a better explanation of the everlasting covenant so that it is made plain how the covenant works. Can someone explain?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Ed Sutton

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #135 on: January 15, 2015, 08:34:59 AM »
Quote
We need a better explanation of the everlasting covenant so that it is made plain how the covenant works. Can someone explain?

2nd Peter chapter 1:   - John chapter 17:  - Psalms 32:

2nd Peter 1:

1 ¶  Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

“to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:” 

Obtaining is not the same as already owning, obtaining is going to the owner and either against their will forcibly taking some of what they exclusively have and you seek, or with their permission and assistance getting some from them.

The context is stating that through the holy right doing and benevolence merits of God and right doing and benevolence merits of Jesus the like precious faith is given, upheld, cultivated in a person to achieve the mission of Father God & Christ via the implanting of this measure of faith via the Holy Ghost representing Christ’s interests within the person.   Notice - Romans 12:3  For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.   

This is IMPUTED and IMPARTED . 

Imputed means only God can create it, and only God can implant it in a creature.  Imparted means that God gives and implants what He has made into a person, as, or while, as long as, they are walking with Him.

2  Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,


 knowledge <1922> of God

Knowledge herein refers to knowing and union and partnership.  Consider how Scripture uses <1922>
Romans 1:28  And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge <1922>, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Romans 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge <1922> of sin.
Romans 10:2  For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge <1922>.
Ephesians 1:17  That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge <1922> of him:
Ephesians 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge <1922> of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Philippians 1:9  And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge <1922> and in all judgment;
Colossians 1:9  For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge <1922> of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
Colossians 1:10  That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge <1922> of God;
Colossians 2:2  That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement <1922> of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
Colossians 3:10  And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge <1922> after the image of him that created him:
1 Timothy 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge <1922> of the truth.
2 Timothy 2:25  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging <1922> of the truth;
2 Timothy 3:7  Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge <1922> of the truth.
Titus 1:1  Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging <1922> of the truth which is after godliness;
Philemon 1:6  That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging <1922> of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
Hebrews 10:26  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge <1922> of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
2 Peter 1:2  Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge <1922> of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2 Peter 1:3  According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge <1922> of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2 Peter 1:8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge <1922> of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:20  For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge <1922> of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

3  According as his divine power<1411>  hath given unto us all things<3956> that pertain <4314>unto life and godliness, through the knowledge<1922> of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

1411. δυ/ναμις dunamis doo’-nam-is; from 1410; force (literally or figuratively); specially, miraculous power (usually by implication, a miracle itself): —  ability, abundance, meaning, might(-ily, y, y deed), (worker of) miracle(-s), power, strength,violence, mighty (wonderful) work.

1410. δυ/ναμαι dunamai doo’-nam-ahee; of uncertain affinity; to be able or possible: —  be able, can (do, + not), could, may, might, be possible, be of power.

3956. πα=ς pas pas; including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: —  all (manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no(-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

4314. προ/ς pros pros; a strengthened form of 4253; a preposition of direction; forward to, i.e. toward (with the genitive case the side of, i.e. pertaining to; with the dative case by the side of, i.e. near to; usually with the accusative case the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation, i.e. whither or for which it is predicated): — about, according to, against, among, at, because of, before, between,


Life refers to eternal as well as temporal life, because godliness is included, as the outflow of (knowing God, union with God, understanding as a person who is allied to God, the One Who calls His creatures to obtain Him, His glory and his virtue . 
******************** ( pausing here - tired worked last night - more later )

4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


5 ¶  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;


6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;


7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.


8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


9  But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


10  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


12 ¶  Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

John 17:
1 ¶  These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:


2  As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.


3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


4  I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.


5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


6 ¶  I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.


7  Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.


8  For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.


9  I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.


10  And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.


11 ¶  And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.


12  While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


13  And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.


14  I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.


15  I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.


16  They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.


17 ¶  Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.


18  As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.


19  And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.


20 ¶  Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;


21  That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.


22  And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:


23  I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


24 ¶  Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.


25  O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.


26  And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.


Psalm 32:
1 ¶  « A Psalm of David, Maschil. » Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2  Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
3  When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.
4  For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.
5  I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
6  For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.
7 ¶  Thou art my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble; thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah.
8  I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
9  Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.
10  Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the LORD, mercy shall compass him about.
11  Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.

Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}

Richard Myers

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #136 on: January 15, 2015, 09:13:51 AM »
Ed, that is a lot to follow. I got lost. Help me a little.

Where do we find the "everlasting covenant" first made for man?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Ed Sutton

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #137 on: January 15, 2015, 07:12:12 PM »
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We need a better explanation of the everlasting covenant so that it is made plain how the covenant works. Can someone explain?

Woops,   Sorry for rambling so much.  Scripture being so vast in what it touches, I thought to use 2nd Peter chapter 1:   - John chapter 17:  - Psalms 32:  as a foundational platform from which to start.  I ought to include the references to the condensed nerve center of salvation.

The Sanctuary in Heaven - where God's plan of salvation for the human species is logistically put into action since sin entered. 

Exodus 15:17  Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance, in the place, O LORD, which thou hast made for thee to dwell in, in the Sanctuary, O Lord, which thy hands have established.

Psalms 63:2  To see thy power and thy glory, so as I have seen thee in the sanctuary.

Psalms 68:24  They have seen thy goings, O God; even the goings of my God, my King, in the sanctuary.

Psalms 77:13  Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

God's dealings are best explained in the foundational passages of Scripture and salvation's operational center - The sanctuary in Heaven.

I will try to condense where I am coming from.  2nd Peter starts at the beginning - the righteousness and merits of God, contrasted with sinful totally bankrupt mankind.  Through Peter's ladder, Jesus's prayer, David's psalm of restoration education deliverance from the inside outward - this everlasting covenant mission and principles are brought forward and unpacked.

Like Daniel ch 2 revealing history and prophecy till the Second Coming, 2nd Peter ch 1 - reveals God to the uttermost ( Heb 7:25) rescuing humans from union with Satan's treason, and the sins and sinfulness of their past.   

John ch 17 reveals Jesus Christ's ways and means and mission of rescuing each individual if they choose to enter becoming believers in Him.  Rescuing them from union with Satan unto endless union with Christ and Father God through the indwelling Holy Ghost .

God's logistics of such deliverance step by step - spoken of in Psalms 32, all of the above coming from the day to day office work of God's Sanctuary in Heaven.    So verse by verse examining each passage then looking at at the sum of of the passages, explains the everlasting covenant, being the outflow of God's character, principles and ways of governance, and how He rescues, and His mission inside each person . 

Sorry for such a tiny explanation, it's such a big subject I can only perceive a small piece of a tiny fraction of this eternal mystery kept in silence till sin moved God's heart of mercy to risk Himself and His Throne and all creation to save the guilty human race.  (Q. Which Divine Person was so moved ?         A.  All three of Them in union. )

Sadly the angels who left their first estate were by their rebellion in the face of knowing all Heaven, were internally and externally propelled far beyond the ability to be reconverted & sanctified & glorified and thus redeemed and rescued, before their expulsion from Heaven.
Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}

Richard Myers

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #138 on: January 15, 2015, 07:30:29 PM »
Yes, Ed, it is a very large subject. But, let's see if we can present the simplicity of the gospel in light of the everlasting covenant. And, as you have shared, the sancturary message is front and center. But, since I wanted the first mention of the covenant to man, we did not have the Hebrew Sanctuary, for there were no Hebrews. So, all we have are two humans when the everlasting covenant was expressed. And, it was not said to Adam or Eve, but to Satan. Mimi told us earlier what it was.

Genesis 3:15. "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Notice that Adam and Eve were bystanders when this was spoken. But, it was for their benefit and ours that the covenant was made. My desire is that this be made simple that all may benefit from a better understanding of the "old covenant" and the "new covenant".  While it is not necessary to understand for salvation, it will help many undo the lies that have been taught regarding both covenants.

Can anyone speak to this verse and explain how it is the everlasting covenant and its relationship to the other two covenants?
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Ed Sutton

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Re: New Covenant experience
« Reply #139 on: January 16, 2015, 05:36:04 AM »
Q.    Can anyone speak to this verse and explain how it is the everlasting covenant and its relationship to the other two covenants?

A.  Looking at the unabridged everlasting Covenant spoken in Genesis 3: 14-19

Genesis 3:
14 ¶  And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 ¶  Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 ¶  And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18  Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19  In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Genesis 5:2  Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

God is holding a conference meeting, Satan the serpent is there, and Adam the man, and Adam the woman, whom Adam the man after this conference, renamed Eve.


“Her seed” 2 Bible texts.  The covenant is everlasting - but Satan’s war and existence are not.

Genesis 3:15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Revelation 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The Covenant required Christ to do more than the text tells on the surface.  SOP says that Christ explained more to Adam & Eve as He opened to them the sacrificial system, that is when He expounded on what John 3:16 says.

Holiness is enmity with unholiness, light is enmity with darkness, obedience is enmity with treason / self rule. 

For Christ to put enmity between Satan and humanity, Christ had to redeem humanity.  He has to redeem humanity from both their sins and sinfulness, in other words, their willingness to sin and love of sin and sin built self rule, sin working in them and sin’s effects upon them ( both mind and body) and everywhere sin touches.

To do that, Christ must become and remain one of them eternally.  He must perfect humanity in His own human body and as a human, using Father God’s love and power and promises, through human love and faith implanted by Father God in himself.  Jesus Christ must destroy sin in His humanity, and impute and impart Himself to whomsoever will receive Him, and destroy all sin and Satan and cleanse both Heaven’s Sanctuary and the minds of all who live and are loyal to God.

He must take the first Adam’s place and become the Second Adam, and also as God, buying ALL the entire accounts receivables of all humanity missing no one, and as the Second Adam become the new pattern of the Eden created humanity. 

The entire covenant would be built upon Jesus Christ shouldering this plan of salvation and never ceasing to be the Second Adam, conquering sin in all it’s forms and effects, recreating mankind through union with Himself and restoring their access to Father God as His children.   

This would be an all or nothing one time attempt.  It could not be repeated.  If Jesus Christ failed it would be through His sinning in any degree, Satan would win, Jesus would be destroyed, Satan would take Christ’s throne.

This entire covenant carried out 100% successfully, alone , would give Jesus Christ the right to recreate humanity in His image, judge and remove sin from believers, execute Satan and Satan's followers, heal the universe of sins doubts and ideas, restore loyalty through love and faith - unbroken once more. 

Genesis 3:15 = the original covenant God made.

This is the covenant the people made in their own strength and self righteousness -

Exodus 19:8  And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.


Jeremiah 42:20  For ye dissembled in your hearts, when ye sent me unto the LORD your God, saying, Pray for us unto the LORD our God; and according unto all that the LORD our God shall say, so declare unto us, and we will do it.

Hebrews 8:10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hebrews 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Jeremiah 31:33  But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is why these passages come into play - explaining the "new covenant"  2nd Peter chapter 1:   - John chapter 17:  - Psalms 32 - Exodus 15:17 - Psalms 63:2 - Psalms 68:24 - Psalms 77:13  -   Colossians 1:27  To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

The "new covenant" was not new to God, it was new to the understanding of sinners, used to self righteousness, forms, ceremonies, faith built upon their strength - their promises - their works, their very ideas of religion, making excuses to keep on sinning.

in Scripture mystery does not always mean unknowable, but usually rather something not revealed, but understandable once revealed.

Mark 4:11  And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

1 Corinthians 2:7  But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Ephesians 3:9  And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Colossians 1:27  To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Colossians 2:2  That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Colossians 4:3  Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:

1 Timothy 3:16  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Revelation 10:7  But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.   

God declared to Daniel in ch & verse 8:14 the when, and to Moses and Ezekiel the how to know the timetable . Numbers 14:34  -  Ezekiel 4:6
Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}