Bible Translations

[Cop]

I do not know if anyone has posted this info previously or not, but there is a very good source of knowledge on where the different versions came from.  There are several books that compare the KJV and the Textus Receptus with the RV and the Roman Catholic manuscripts that are its source. All the new versions today are also based on these same corrupt Roman manuscripts.

These books are written by Benjamin G. Wilkerson who was the Dean of Theology at Washington Missionary College. Washington Missionary later became our seminary at Andrews University. These books are 'Our Authorized Bible Vindicated' and 'Answers To Objections to Our Authorized Bible'.

This man was a SDA scholar who wrote many books about the Scriptures and of the history of Christianity. Sadly, today SDA printing houses do not reprint his books. They are being printed by the publishing houses of other denominations.

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"My religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me. That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave" - Gen. Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson

[This message has been edited by Cop (edited 09-17-2007).]

[Kevin M. Barrett]

An HTML version of Wilkerson's book can be found here: http://www.temcat.com/Wilkinson/AuthorizedBibleTOC.htm

It can be downloaded here: http://maranathamedia.com/start/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=218

Answers to objections this work: http://www.temcat.com/Answers2Objections/Answers-TOC.htm

[Dora]

We just watched a video of Veith's "Changing the Word," and though I had heard and read some things about the changes, I was truly shocked when I watched his presentation. He had three people come up and compare texts from three versions.  They read from the KJV first, then from the other two versions, the RSV and the NIV, the last two people would say, "That verse is just not here."  The only way one could grasp it all (or even most of it) would be to pause the DVD and write it all down.

Yes, it was amazing!!

[asygo]

Since our doctrines, particularly the Investigative Judgment and 2300-Day Prophecy cannot be taught from the NIV, our people should be made aware of the dangers of this Romanized Bible being foisted upon them. ... If we are to adopt the NIV as a standard for use in the pulpit and in our schools, then we might as well give up being Seventh-day Adventists and join the ecumenical movement back to Rome.

Those are pretty strong words, considering that the first Bible I "really" read was the NIV, and I have taught 1844 and the IJ using it.

Personally, I don't like the NIV. But I doubt that my faith is founded on a particular translation, or that the controversy over the disputed 5% of the NT manuscripts will cause me to falter.

If one's faith can be torn down or his distinctive doctrines lost by using a different version of the Bible, I suggest he study more to get on solid footing. Satan, who is sneaky enough to threaten the very elect, will have much more subtle and dangerous tricks up his sleeve.

[Kevin M. Barrett]

I don't know who wrote the preface, but it was not Wilkerson. Wilkerson's work was written in the 30's, forty or so years in advance of the NIV. Though written to address the Revised Version, many of his concerns still apply due to the reliance that many modern translations have on the same manuscripts.

Read beyond the preface. I think you'll find it interesting reading.

[asygo]

I've read the book. It wasn't the best scholarly argument for the Textus Receptus, but I didn't have a problem with it.

As I was reading the section on the Waldenses, I found it strangely familiar. After a couple of pages, I looked in my GC and there it was. Pretty sneaky, I thought.

In any case, I generally stay away from the UBS text. I prefer the Majority Text, but the TR works also. That's why I use the NKJV.

[Wally]

Since our doctrines, particularly the Investigative Judgment and 2300-Day Prophecy cannot be taught from the NIV, our people should be made aware of the dangers of this Romanized Bible being foisted upon them. ... If we are to adopt the NIV as a standard for use in the pulpit and in our schools, then we might as well give up being Seventh-day Adventists and join the ecumenical movement back to Rome.

Those are pretty strong words, considering that the first Bible I "really" read was the NIV, and I have taught 1844 and the IJ using it.

Personally, I don't like the NIV. But I doubt that my faith is founded on a particular translation, or that the controversy over the disputed 5% of the NT manuscripts will cause me to falter.

If one's faith can be torn down or his distinctive doctrines lost by using a different version of the Bible, I suggest he study more to get on solid footing. Satan, who is sneaky enough to threaten the very elect, will have much more subtle and dangerous tricks up his sleeve.

Have you seen "The Battle of the Bibles," and "Changing the Word?"  Both are part of Dr. Walter Veith's Total Onslaught series.  The give a very interesting perspective regarding the various translations of the Bible.

My Sabbath School class is learning that the NIV is not very useful to them.  Too much confusion; too many missing texts; too many misleading passages.  Most of them use the KJV now, not because I talked them into it, but because they have found it to be more reliable.

[Kevin M. Barrett]

I've found that the KJV is also easier to memorize.

[Wally]

I've found that the KJV is also easier to memorize.

No question about it; and it's because of the poetic nature of the translation.  Trying to memorize from the NIV or the other newer translations is like trying to memorize lines form a newspaper article.  Much of the Old Testament was written in  poetic style so the Hebrews could more easily commit it to memory, since there were few copies and they were expensive.  This was also true in 1611.  Not many could afford a Bible, and they weren't as easily produced as they are now.  Paper was made from cotton rags.  Type had to be set by hand.  I am so thankful that the KJV translators were able to produce a translation that lent itself to easy memorization.  I'm also glad that this amazing translation had been updated as necessary.  Most of us would be hard pressed to read an original copy of the Bible published in 1611.  I have a copy published in 1639, and it is a challenge to read.  Along with the Gothic script, which most of us aren't used to, spelling had not been standardized in the English language, yet.  Some think that it is now too difficult for the modern generation to understand.  Nonsense!  My teenagers both use the KJV--their choice.  I don't hear any complaints, only the occasional question as to what something means.

[Richard Myers]

Memorization becomes more difficult when a church is using different Bibles to read in church or in the home. I stumble with some verses still after giving up my NIV almost twenty years ago.  I learned some from that version and today I amalgamate some verses from both the KJV and the NIV.  

My daughter learned to read from the KJV. It was not a problem for her at an early age. I understand the difficulty for many of us because I complained vociferously about the KJV when I first became a Christian. But, I have repented over and over.

[asygo]

Have you seen "The Battle of the Bibles," and "Changing the Word?"  Both are part of Dr. Walter Veith's Total Onslaught series.  The give a very interesting perspective regarding the various translations of the Bible.

I have not. But I have read a few books on the topic. Does he address both the controversy over the manuscripts and the the translations?

I've seen quite a few decent ones that argue for the Textus Receptus, but I haven't seen a decent one yet that argues for the KJV. Every one I've seen has this basic argument: The KJV is the best because I like it the best.

Most of them use the KJV now, not because I talked them into it, but because they have found it to be more reliable.

Why do they prefer that over the NKJV, or some other translation based on the TR? I find the YLT useful in some cases.

[Mimi]

We just watched a video of Veith's "Changing the Word," and though I had heard and read some things about the changes, I was truly shocked when I watched his presentation. He had three people come up and compare texts from three versions.  They read from the KJV first, then from the other two versions, the RSV and the NIV, the last two people would say, "That verse is just not here."  The only way one could grasp it all (or even most of it) would be to pause the DVD and write it all down.

Yes, it was amazing!!

Yes, it is, Dora. Get this:

Romans 8:1

KJV: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

NKJV: There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

NEB: The conclusion of the matter is this: there is no condemnation for those who are united with Christ Jesus.

NIV: Therefore, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

RSV: There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Weymouth: There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

This little comparison does not acquit the NKJV for all its omissions and changes, but it does show how many who use other versions on this particular text could be taught "just believe on Jesus and be saved"   as well as "saved in their sins" teaching. These are rampant among most churches and coming into ours as well.

The Veith DVD (thank you, Dora) on this subject is incredibly enlightening.

He points out the systematic downplaying of Jesus' divinity in most all modern translations; the atonement; Jesus' High Priesthood and many other things relative to salvation - but primarily taking Jesus out of the spotlight of being Savior, Redeemer, in the flesh, High Priest and Advocate, Judge.

 

[Mimi]

Richard, look at the post on Romans 8:1. Easy to see if someone is using a modern version, the 2nd half of the text just does not exist.

Amazing! Wah-la - a false gospel!

[Mimi]

 No outward observances can take the place of simple faith and entire renunciation of self. But no man can empty himself of self. We can only consent for Christ to accomplish the work. Then the language of the soul will be, Lord, take my heart; for I cannot give it. It is Thy property. Keep it pure, for I cannot keep it for Thee. Save me in spite of myself, my weak, unchristlike self. Mold me, fashion me, raise me into a pure and holy atmosphere, where the rich current of Thy love can flow through my soul.  {COL 159.3}
     It is not only at the beginning of the Christian life that this renunciation of self is to be made. At every advance step heavenward it is to be renewed. All our good works are dependent on a power outside of ourselves. Therefore there needs to be a continual reaching out of the heart after God, a continual, earnest, heartbreaking confession of sin and humbling of the soul before Him. Only by constant renunciation of self and dependence on Christ can we walk safely.  {COL 159.4}

[Mimi]

Changing the Word – Parts 1 through 3
Total Onslaught
Walter J. Veith

Notes from:
How theology is changed when using modern versions

Which Bible Can We Trust?
Les Garrett, Cluedram Centre Press, 1982 says:

Number of verses affected:

New American Standard – 909
Revised Version – 788
New World Translation 767
NIV – 695
Good News – 614
Amplified – 484
Douay – 421
Old Jehovah’s Witnesses – 129
NKJV ignored the textus recepticus 1200 times

Brief overview of subtle changes from KJV textus recepticus

Jehovah’s Witness’ Bible was the first changed

·   Matthew 16:3 left out
·   Mark 9:46 left out
·   Mark 16:9-20 left out
·   John 1:1 – word was a god
·   John 8:1-11 – left out
·   Acts 8:37 – left out
·   1 John 5:7 – left out

NIV
·   2 Samuel 21:19
·   2 Sam 23:5
·   Hosea 11:12
·   Matthew 20:22, 23 – left out phrases
·   Matthew 25:13 – left out 2nd half
·   Matthew 24:36 – added “nor the son”
·   Mark 2:17 – left off 2nd half – “to repentance”
·   Mark 10:21 – left off “take up the cross”
·   Mark 10:24 – left off “that trust in riches” yet says how hard it is for “the rich to enter the kingdom of God”
·   Luke 4:4 – left out “but by every word of God”
·   Luke 9:55, 56 – left off majority of verses – Jesus not to destroy but to save
·   Revelation 14:5 -  left out “before the throne of God”
·   Rev 22:14 – “wash their robes” vs. “do His commandments”
·   Luke 4:8 – leaves out “get thee behind Me Satan”
·   Acts 13:42 – subtle change for meaning of Sabbath – taking the Jews out replacing “Paul and Barnabas”
·   Acts 16:7 – added “but the Spirit of Jesus” - implies that the Spirit is in control of Jesus
·   1 Corinthians 5:7 – “Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed” “for us” is missing. Exclusivity of Jesus is gone. Changes the doctrine of Atonement
·   1 Peter 1:22 – “through the Spirit” is missing – no indwelling power of God
·   2 Timothy 4:1 – “at” His appearing is changed to “in view of” His appearing and his kingdom, implying the judgment could take place at any indefinite period
·    Hebrews 7:21 – “after the order of Melchisedec” is missing. Denying Jesus’ higher priesthood
·   John 5:39 – No longer “Search the Scriptures” – a command, yet a statement saying “you search the scriptures … “
·   John 2:11 – miraculous signs – not “miracles” performed by Jesus
·   Matthew 18:2, 3 – left out “be converted”
·   Hebrews 11:3 – “formed at God’s command” not by “the Word” of God.
·   Hebrews 1:2 – “through whom” not “by whom” – spiritualizes creation
·   Ephesians 3:9 – left out “all things by Jesus Christ”
·   Colossians 1:14 – leaves out “through His blood” – denies the atonement, shedding of blood
·   2 Thessalonians 2:2 – “has already come” – not “at hand”
·   Mark 7:19 – declares all foods clean
·   John 9:4 – “I” is changed to “we” must work. Jesus is the only one who can do this work – not “we”
·   1 Corinthians 11:29 – leaves out “unworthily” and the “Lord’s” body. Changes the idea of the text to say without discerning “the body of the Lord.” Transubstantiation.
·   James 5:16 – changes “faults to one another” to “sins to one another”  Makes man a confessor to man
·   Hebrews 10:21 – having “a great priest” not “an high priest” – denies Jesus High priesthood. Implies there can be other priests or a priesthood for confessionals other than Jesus.
·   Acts 15:23 – Church government is changed. A comma changed the priesthood apart from the brethren. It makes a vast difference, in sending out this letter, from the first council of the Christian Church, whether it is issued from the apostles and elders only, or issued from the apostles, elders, AND the brethren.
·   Hebrews 9:27 – judgment at death
·   Luke 1:72 – says Christ came to show to our dead fathers the mercy they need now. Praying for the dead – they needed mercy after death.
·   1 Peter 4:6 – gospel was preached “even to those who are now dead”
·   Acts 24:15 – “of the dead” left out
·   Job 26:5 – dead are “in deep anguish” beneath the waters and all that live in them. Purgatory teaching
·   2 Peter 2:9 – “while continuing their punishment” – everlasting hell
·   FOLLOWING TEXTS ARE A DENIAL OF JESUS DIVINITY
·   1 Corinthians 15: 3, 4 – “he hath been raised on the third day” denies his divine power to raise – that He is inferior
·   Titus 2:13 – deity of Christ removed – “appearing of the glory” – Jesus has only the glory God gives him – not His own
·    Proverbs 8:22 – His eternal pre-existence is denied – “brought me forth as the first of his works”  Says Jesus was a created being.
·   Daniel 3:25 – Jesus described as “son of the gods”
·   Luke 2:33 – denies God as father of Jesus
·   Matthew 13:51 – “Lord” is left out. Everywhere in the KJV where Jesus is referred to as “Lord” – it has been removed in the NIV.
·   Matthew 27:35 – “that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, they parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture” did they cast lots, is removed.
·    Mark 15:3 – “but he answered nothing” is removed. Again in the KJV it is a fulfillment of prophecy
·   1 John 4:3 – “Christ is come in the flesh” is removed.
·   Matthew 6:13 – “for thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever” is omitted.
·   Luke 11:2 – “Our Father, which art in heaven” “thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth” are removed. Any father can be prayed to in this version
·   Luke 11:2-4 – in addition to the above, “deliver us from evil” is removed
·   John 16:16 – reworded verse so that it appears as if Jesus is playing game of hide and seek. Left out is “because I go to the Father.”
·   Acts 9:29 – “the name of the Lord Jesus” is removed
·   Acts 22:16 – “calling on the name of the Lord” is removed
·   Romans 1:3 – “Jesus Christ our Lord” is removed
·   1 Timothy 3:16 – mystery of godliness. Says “he” appeared in a body, not “God” appeared in the flesh.
·   1 John 5:7 – Godhead removed saying “for there are three that testify:” without naming them as does the KJV
·   Revelation 5:14 – removed “him that liveth for ever and ever”
·   Matthew 17:21 – missing
·   Matthew 18:11 – missing
·   Matthew 23:14 – missing
·   Mark 7:16 – missing
·   Mark 9:44 – missing
·   Mark 9:46 – missing
·   Mark 11:26 – missing
·   Romans 8:1 – missing 2nd half of verse. “no condemnation” for those who are in Christ Jesus period
·   1 Timothy 3:16 – “He was” manifest in the flesh – not “God was”


RSV
·   Matthew 18:11 – left out
·   Matthew 5:44 – left off portion of full text
·   Matthew 20:16 – left off 2nd half of text
·   Matthew 25:13 – left out 2nd half
·   Mark 2:17 – left off 2nd half – “to repentance”
·   Mark 6:11 – left off 2nd half – more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment
·   Mark 10:21 – left off “take up the cross”
·   Mark 10:24 – left off “that trust in riches”
·   Luke 2:14 – changed 2nd half – “peace among men with whom he is pleased”
·   Luke 4:4 – left out “but by every word of God”
·   Luke 9:55, 56 – left off majority of verses – Jesus not to destroy but to save
·   Luke 22:43, 44 – missing
·   John 10:14 – changed to “my own know me”
·   Acts 28:29 – missing
·   1 Corinthians 10:28 – left out “for the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof”
·   Revelation 14:5 - left out “before the throne of God”
·   Rev 22:14 – “wash their robes” vs. “do His commandments”
·   Luke 4:8 – leaves out “get thee behind Me Satan”
·   Acts 13:42 – subtle change for meaning of Sabbath – taking the Jews out replacing “they”
·   Acts 16:7 – added “but the Spirit of Jesus” - implies that the Spirit is in control of Jesus
·   1 Corinthians 5:7 – “for Christ our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed” “for us” is missing. Exclusivity of Jesus is gone. Changes doctrine of atonement
·   1 Peter 1:22 – “through the Spirit” is missing – no indwelling power of God but adding “your obedience”
·   2 Timothy 4:1 – “at” His appearing is changed to “by” His appearing and His kingdom, implying the judgment could take place at any indefinite period
·   Hebrews 7:21 – “after the order of Melchisedec” is missing. Denying Jesus’ higher priesthood
·   John 5:39 – No longer “Search the Scriptures” – a command, yet a statement saying “you search the scriptures … “
·   John 2:11 – “sign” not miracle of Jesus
·   Matthew 18:2, 3 – left out “be converted”
·   John 1: 3, 4 – the margin says “was life in Him”
·   Hebrews 11:3 – the margin “that the ages have been framed” – evolutionary rather than literal creation week. Hort’s commentary on this: “The ages, the universe under the aspect of time have been formed by the Word of God. Included harmonious unfolding … evolution in orderly succession.”
·   Colossians 1:15, 16 – changed “by Him all things were created” and said “in Him” all things were created.
·   Hebrews 1:2 – “through whom” not “by whom” He created “the ages” – spiritualizes creation and makes it evolutionary at the same time
·   Colossians 1:14 – leaves out “through His blood” – denies the atonement, shedding of blood
·   Matthew 24:3 – leaves out “thy coming” and “the end of the world” – says instead – “of thy presence” (margin) and “the consummation of the age.” Doctrine of the 2nd coming of Christ radically changed. Evolution again included
·   Philippians 3:20, 21 – change denied at the 2nd coming, but rather can occur at any time before His coming, or be continuous – it may be a change from abstract vices to abstract virtues. Spiritualizes away the 2nd coming
·   2 Thessalonians 2:2 – “now present” – not “at hand”
·   Titus 2:13 – by changing the adjective “glorious” to the noun “glory,” the revisers have removed the 2nd coming of Christ from this text. Now, it is not He that comes but His glory.
·   Revelation 1:7  - “shall mourn OVER Him” not “because of Him” Denies judgment. Spiritualizes away judgment through terrible expectation of vengeance. Most of the revisers did not believe there would be a personal return of Jesus before the restitution of all things which the KJV rendering of this passage teaches.
·   Mark 7:19 – says Jesus declares all foods clean
·   Luke 22:44, 45 – “while the sun’s light failed”
·   1 Corinthians 7:5 – leaves out “fasting”
·    John 9:4 – “I” is changed to “we” must work. Jesus is the only one who can do this work – not “we”
·   2 Timothy 4:1 – “at” His appearing changed to “by” His appearing
·   1 Corinthians 11:29 – leaves out “unworthily” and the “Lord’s” body
·   James 5:16 – changes “faults to one another” to “sins to one another”  Makes man a confessor to man
·   Hebrews 10:21 – having “a great priest” not “an high priest” – denies Jesus High priesthood.  Implies there can be other priests or a priesthood for confessionals other than Jesus.
·   Acts 15:23 – Church government is changed. A comma changed the priesthood apart from the brethren. It makes a vast difference, in sending out this letter, from the first council of the Christian Church, whether it is issued from the apostles and elders only, or issued from the apostles, elders, AND the brethren
·   Hebrews 9:27 – judgment at death – or purgatory
·   Luke 1:72 – says Christ came to show to our dead fathers the mercy they need now. Praying for the dead.
·   1 Peter 4:6 – gospel was preached “even to the dead”
·   Acts 24:15 – “of the dead” left out
·   Job 26:5 – the deceased “tremble beneath the waters and the inhabitants thereof”
·   Revelation 13:8 – teaches the different regions of the conscious dead, as RCC teaches.
·   1 Corinthians 15: 3, 4 – “he hath been raised on the third day” denies his divine power to raise – that He is inferior
·   1 Corinthians 11:24 – referencing the mass – leaves out “take eat” and “broken” for you
·   John 7:8 – left out “go not up YET” – but instead says “I’m not going” – but we know He did go. This version renders Jesus a liar.
·   FOLLOWING TEXTS ARE A DENIAL OF JESUS DIVINITY
·   Titus 2:13 – deity of Christ removed – “appearing of the glory”   Jesus has only the glory God gives him – not His own
·   Isaiah 7:14 “a young woman” not “a virgin”  A virgin conceiving is a “sign” otherwise any young woman could conceive
·   Psalm 45:6 – “your divine throne” and not “thy throne, O God” which Hebrews 1:8 refers to. The name of God is in Psalms reduced to the adjective “divine” – so when quoted in Hebrews it is made to apply to the Son.
·   Proverbs 8:22 – His eternal pre-existence is denied – “created me” at the beginning
·   Daniel 3:25 – Jesus described as “son of the gods”
·   Micah 5:2 – “whose origin” is from old and not “whose goings forth have been” from old, from everlasting
·   Matthew 1:25 – miraculous birth obscured – removed “her firstborn” son.
·   Matthew 1:16 – Joseph as “the father of Jesus”  KJV calls Joseph the husband of Mary
·   Luke 2:33 – denies God as father of Jesus
·   Matthew 13:51 – “Lord” is left out
·   Matthew 19:16, 17 – “teacher” is substituted for “Good Master” and the phrase is reworded, “why do you ask me about what is good” instead of “why callest thou me good?”
·   Matthew 27:35 – “that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, they parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture” did they cast lots, is removed.
·   Matthew 2:15 – Out of Egypt “did” I call my son instead of “have I called”  With this being such, Hosea 11:1 is not a fulfillment of prophecy.
·   Mark 15:3 – “but he answered nothing” is removed. Again in the KJV it is a fulfillment of prophecy
·   Mark 15:28 – missing. It is a fulfillment of prophecy in the KJV, thus omitted
·   1 John 4:3 – “Christ is come in the flesh” is removed.
·   Mark 16:9-20 – post resurrection appearances are omitted, missing altogether
·   Matthew 6:13 – “for thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever” is omitted.
·   Luke 11:2 – “Our Father, which art in heaven” “thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth” are removed. Any father can be prayed to in this version
·   Luke 11:2-4 – in addition to the above, “deliver us from evil” is removed
·   Luke 24:40 – post resurrection appearances omitted altogether
·   John 3:13 – rightful place of Son of Man in heaven denied. Removed is “which is in heaven”
·   John 6:33 – “is THAT which comes down from heaven” instead of “he” which comes down
·   John 6:47 – removed is “believeth on me” – instead it is just “he who believes” has eternal life. This dramatically changes theology
·   John 16:16 – reworded verse so that it appears as if Jesus is playing game of hide and seek. Left out is “because I go to the Father.”
·   John 16:23 – Prayer to the Father in the name of the Son discountenanced. “he will give it to you in my name” rather than “ask the Father in my name”
·   Acts 2:30 – “he would set one of his descendants” upon his throne instead of “according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne”
·   Acts 8:36, 37 – Divine Sonship omitted. Verse 37 omitted altogether
·   Acts 22:16 – “calling on the name of the Lord” is removed
·   Romans 1:3 – “Jesus Christ our Lord” is removed
·   Romans 9:5 – deity of Christ eliminated. “… is THE Christ” vs. KJV “ … flesh Christ came, WHO is over all”
·   Romans 14:10 – “seat of God”  vs. “judgment seat of Christ” in KJV which exalts Jesus as God and judge.
·   1 Corinthians 15:47 – pre-existence of the Son as Lord in heaven discredited. “the Lord” is omitted
·   1 Timothy 3:16 – mystery of godliness. Says “he” was manifested – not “God was manifested” in the flesh
·   1 Peter 4:14 – omits “on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.”
·   Revelation 1:11 – removed “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest …”
·   Revelation 5:14 – removed “him that liveth for ever and ever”
·   Matthew 17:21 – missing
·   Matthew 18:11 – missing
·   Matthew 23:14 – missing
·   Mark 7:16 – missing
·   Mark 9:44 – missing
·   Mark 9:46 – missing
·   Mark 11:26 – missing
·   Romans 8:1 – missing 2nd half of verse. “no condemnation” for those who are in Christ Jesus period
·   1 Timothy 3:16 - “He was” manifest in the flesh – not “God was”

ASV
·   Mark 10:21 – left off “take up the cross”
·   2 Timothy 3:16 – “is also profitable for teaching”
·   Rev 22:14 – “wash their robes” vs. “do His commandments”
·   Philippians 3:20, 21 - change denied at the 2nd coming, but rather can occur at any time before His coming, or be continuous – it may be a change from abstract vices to abstract virtues. Spiritualizes away the 2nd coming
·   Revelation 1:7  - “shall mourn OVER Him” not “because of Him” Denies judgment through terrible expectation of vengeance. Spiritualizes away judgment. Most of the revisers did not believe there would be a personal return of Jesus before the restitution of all things which the KJV rendering of this passage teaches.
·   FOLLOWING TEXTS ARE A DENIAL OF JESUS DIVINITY
·   1 Corinthians 15: 3, 4 – “he hath been raised on the third day” denies his divine power to raise – that He is inferior
·   Titus 2:13 – deity of Christ removed – “appearing of the glory”
·    Daniel 3:25 – Jesus described as “son of the gods”
·   Matthew 2:15 – Out of Egypt “did” I call my son instead of “have I called”  With this being such, Hosea 11:1 is not a fulfillment of prophecy.
·   Mark 15:3 – “but he answered nothing” is removed. Again in the KJV it is a fulfillment of prophecy
·   

NASV
·   Job 19:26 Ghost theology – “without my flesh” I shall see God. KJV says “in my flesh” I shall see God
·   Luke 24:51, 52 – Miraculous Ascension obscured – removed “and carried up into heaven. And they worshipped him.”

Douay
·   Luke 4:8 – leaves out “get thee behind Me Satan”
·   Acts 13:42 – subtle change for meaning of Sabbath – taking the Jews out replacing “they”
·   Acts 16:7 – added “but the Spirit of Jesus” – implies that the Spirit is in control of Jesus
·   1 Corinthians 5:7 – “for Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed”  “for us” is missing. Exclusivity of Jesus is gone.
·   2 Timothy 4:1 – “at” His appearing is changed to “by” His coming and His kingdom, implying the judgment could take place at any indefinite period
·   Hebrews 7:21 – “after the order of Melchisedec” is missing. Denying Jesus’ higher priesthood
·   John 5:39 – No longer “Search the Scriptures” – a command, yet a statement saying “you search the scriptures … “
·   Luke 2:33 – denies God as father of Jesus
·   Matthew 6:13 – “for thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever” is omitted.
·   Luke 11:2-4 – in addition to the above, “deliver us from evil” is removed

Moffat
·   Luke 23:44, 45 – “owing to an eclipse of the sun”

[Won Bae]

I know some time ago, we discussed about different versions of the Bible.
I came across an interesting web site that you might want to take a look at it.

http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html

Won

[aerasmus]

Interesting site... but only for the flawed reasoning. E.g. Replacing Hell with Hades and Sheol, isnt a problem at all, but that site makes it one. I believe sites like these are done by persons who are passionate indeed, but who don't have adequate understanding of translations.

E.g this is the person's reasoning
How about that "obsolete word" - "hell". The NKJV removes the word "hell" 23 times! And how do they make it "much clearer"? By replacing "hell" with "Hades" and "Sheol"! Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defines Hades: "the underground abode of the dead in Greek MYTHOLOGY". By making it "much clearer" - they turn your Bible into MYTHOLOGY! Not only that, Hades is not always a place of torment or terror! The Assyrian Hades is an abode of blessedness with silver skies called "Happy Fields". In the satanic New Age Movement, Hades is an intermediate state of purification!
 
If we were to take this man's reasoning; then the books of the new testament should all be seen as Mythological writing... as the books were written in Greek, Hades is just the original Greek for what was translated as Hell...


The Symbols are quite interesting, but I do not believe we can associate a publishers symbol with that of the text. NKJV's are sold with the Nelson Bible(who owns the copy right) emblem as well, and with other societies... I just don't see why we are making an issue of a non-issue.

[Richard Myers]

I only took a moment to see what the site had to say and I liked this. I think important that we understand.

Among the first changes that greets the reader of the NKJV is the removal of the much maligned "thee, thou and ye". The Preface to the NKJV states, ". . .thee, thou, and ye are replaced by the simple you,. . .These pronouns are no longer part of our language." But "thee, thou and ye" were "NO LONGER part of the language" during 1611 either. (just read the intro to the 1611 King James, there are no "thee", "thou" and "ye"). In fact, Webster's Third New International Dictionary, says of ye: "used from the earliest of times to the late 13th century. . ." (p.2648) And yet the 1611 King James was published 400 years later in the 17th century!

So why are they there?

The Greek and Hebrew language contain a different word for the second person singular and the second person plural pronouns. Today we use the one-word "you" for both the singular and plural. But because the translators of the 1611 King James Bible desired an accurate, word-for-word translation of the Hebrew and Greek text - they could NOT use the one-word "you" throughout! If it begins with "t" (thou, thy, thine) it's SINGULAR, but if it begins with "y" (ye) it's PLURAL. Ads for the NKJV call it "the Accurate One", and yet the 1611 King James, by using "thee", "thou", "ye", is far more accurate!

By the way, if the "thee's" and "thou's" are ". . .no longer part of our language" - why aren't the NKJV translators rushing to make our hymnbooks "much clearer"? "How Great Thou Art" to "How Great You Are", or "Come Thou Fount" to "Come You Fount" Doesn't sound right, does it? Isn't it amazing that they wouldn't dare "correct" our hymns - and yet, without the slightest hesitation, they'll "correct" the word of God!

[aerasmus]

Richard I understand, the love we as Adventist have for the KJV. However, it is sites like this one that distracts from the good the NKJV actually does. It is still in keeping with the original meaning of the Word. This particular site is in fact using half baked ideas/facts as truth.

Please the understanding of Hell for instance helps us to be able to understand the true meaning of the words, especially considering the state of dead.

We should not be considering one particular translations as the be all end all, considering some things that were added to the KJV by copyist's such as 1 John 5: 7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
As long as the Translation considers the original meaning,  is reverend and does not omit or add, that is what we should look for.

Furthermore, the NKJV is more understandable to the contemporary reader. Thus being able to bring the Word to the ‘common’ person(in a respectful manner). Should we do what the church did in the middle ages and withhold the word from common understanding. As far as I can remember, Luther Translated the Bible into the common vernacular… It was not merely a translation; form one language to another, but was a paradigm shift. By being able to understand, and read for themselves the Word of God; the common man can get to really know Christ, and understand the Bible, by being able to do proper Bible Study.


Maybe before we attack a good translation, we should consider the advantage of being able to read such a translation. Besides, maybe people should consider that the Bible is not only translated into English, and that even those people who don't consider English as their first language, still need to do Bible Study in English... Would we want to keep the Word of God, and a Thorough understanding of the Word from them, because we only want to consider a translation we prefer as the be all end all.

[Richard Myers]

If the NKJ is a good translation, then you are certainly right. There are those who need a simple English translation to begin with. We have a thread in the Bread of Life Forum that we will merge this topic into since it is now duplicating what the other topic does and is in an open forum.

The question is.....is the JKJ a good translation?