Author Topic: On Tithing (Read 24469 times)

Bill Wennell · « **Reply #40 on:** November 30, 2004, 04:24:00 AM »

Here are some needed thoughts from the pen of inspiration:

Some have been dissatisfied and have said: "I will not longer pay my tithe; for I have no confidence in the way things are managed at the heart of the work." But will you rob God because you think the management of the work is not right? Make your complaint, plainly and openly, in the right spirit, to the proper ones. Send in your petitions for things to be adjusted and set in order; but do not withdraw from the work of God, and prove unfaithful, because others are not doing right. {9T 249.2}

As to the amount required, God has specified one tenth of the increase. This is left to the conscience and benevolence of men, whose judgment in this tithing system should have free play. And while it is left free to the conscience, a plan has been laid out definite enough for all. No compulsion is required. {3T 394.1}

There is a second tithe!

To promote the assembling of the people for religious service, as well as to provide for the poor, a second tithe of all the increase was required. Concerning the first tithe, the Lord had declared, "I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel." Numbers 18:21. But in regard to the second He commanded, "Thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which He shall choose to place His name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always." Deuteronomy 14:23, 29; 16:11-14. This tithe, or its equivalent in money, they were for two years to bring to the place where the sanctuary was established. After presenting a thank offering to God, and a specified portion to the priest, the offerers were to use the remainder for a religious feast, in which the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow should participate. Thus provision was made for the thank offerings and feasts at the yearly festivals, and the people were drawn to the society of the priests and Levites, that they might receive instruction and encouragement in the service of God. {PP 530.1}

The contributions (TITHES AND OFFERINGS) required of the Hebrews for religious and charitable purposes amounted to fully one fourth of their income. So heavy a tax upon the resources of the people might be expected to reduce them to poverty; but, on the contrary, the faithful observance of these regulations was one of the conditions of their prosperity. On condition of their obedience God made them this promise: "I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field. . . . And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 3:11. {PP 527.1}

Some personal opinions:
1) Gross or Net?: Pay as you have ability. I like the post that said they err on the side of God. England has a high tax rate since their medical is free. Let us assume it is 75% (I don't know what it is). If I made $100 per week, then after taxes I would have $25. If I paid tithe on gross, I would have to pay $10 and would have $15 left. If I paid on net, I would pay $2.50 and have $22.50 left (I still need to give offerings!). So this should be left to the individual. I pay on gross because I can afford to.

2) Should we ever withold tithe or send it to where we choose? Never! The storehouse is defined as where God chooses to put His name. Currently that is the SDA denomination governed by the GC whether we like it or not is immaterial. Be careful on this as misappropriation of the tithe is currently running rampant. I know many that are not using their tithe in accordance with Bible and SOP and the independant ministries are capitalizing on this subject. Don't confuse your obligation to God with the obligation of the leaders.

3) What if giving causes impoverishment? This is why we have churches. It is the DUTY of the church MEMBERS to pick up the slack of those who have not. The poor are to pay their tithe as the rich and those who have abundance are to share with those who have little. This is also part of the rich's "offerings".

4) Don't forget the "second" tithe and offerings. According to the SOP, 25% of your income should be devoted to the LORD so you learn to depend on Him and not yourself and your earnings.

5) Here are some sources from the EGW concordance:

1. Second PP 530
brought for two years to place of sanctuary PP 530
fund provided by, for charity and hospitality PP 530
required of Israel by God PP 530
used at home every third year PP 530
for benefit of the poor PK 646-7
used for: relief of the poor and for other benevolent purposes Ed 44
providing religious feast for the needy PP 530

2. Withheld
bring into God's treasury your 9T 52
bring to God your 9T 51
by rich fool 3T 546
failure to return, to God MYP 306
restitution of CS 95-100
examples of CS 95-6
make CS 87
what to do when, is impossible CS 100
send in now your TM 306

3. Withholding
confession of sin of CS 95-6
covetousness leads men to rob God by 6T 387
debt is not valid excuse for CS 92-3; 1T 225
experiences in CS 96-7
God is defrauded by 3T 394
God is robbed by CS 67; MM 216
God regards, as robbery AA 336
God's property embezzled by 3T 394
is robbery and embezzlement 3T 394
let nothing tempt you to rob God by 5T 271
many professed Christians rob God by 4T 474; 5T 151; TM 205
men rob God by 9T 249
persons who rob God by, rob themselves of eternal riches 2T 653
rob themselves of His blessing 3T 395
persons guilty of, curse pronounced upon TM 307
should make accurate reckoning of them CS 87
recorded in records of heaven 3T 394
selfishness makes excuses for MYP 307-8
sin of 4T 469

The rest is rather extensive, so if you don't have the CD-ROM, e-mail me and I will be happy to send you the complete listings under "Tithe,tithes" and "Tithes and offerings".

------------------
Bill Wennell
BiblicalTruths2000@Juno.com

[This message has been edited by Bill Wennell (edited 11-30-2004).]

Richard Myers · « **Reply #41 on:** November 30, 2004, 06:03:00 AM »

Thanks for the light, Brother Bill.

Brother Jim, points out the growth within the world church. Brother Cop points out the lack of growth in the NAD.

As we struggle to better understand the tithing principles all of these concerns enter into our thinking.

There are two things that come to mind presently. God does not leave us without light...and this light is very practical. At times we do not see this, but in the end we shall.

The great blessing to come from tithing is more the charactar development of the individual than the support of the ministry. Yes, both are important, but one God can speak and it will be done, the other is the greatest miracle that God can work. He is dependent upon our co-operation to do the character building.

I give to the Christian the right to be wrong in this matter of tithing, but the condition of the heart is all important. Let it be done according to your faith. There are consequences to making the wrong decision, though. It is this that we are attempting to avert. While recognizing individual responsibility to decide, we want a proper doctrinal teaching to guide.

Let me ask a question that may help us. When Jesus paid the temple tax He did so for a reason. Even though He, the owner of the temple did not have to do so, why did He? Matt. 17:24.

Cop · « **Reply #42 on:** December 01, 2004, 06:07:00 PM »

It appears that some believe I am advocating the non-payment or withholding of tithes. I an not! I believe very strongly in returning to my Lord what He asks of me. And though He has no need of my tithe and offerings, I agree completely that it was instituted only for my benefit.

The use of drugs and alcohol are a blessing from God and are helpful to the human body saving many lives, if used correctly. As I will not give these items to a person who I know will misuse them, I have sincere doubts of giving the means of misusing another blessing of God, the tithe, to those who have done so in the past. As I have said, we are still undecided.

[This message has been edited by Cop (edited 12-01-2004).]

Richard Myers · « **Reply #43 on:** August 29, 2006, 11:22:00 AM »

One of our members has asked me to post this for our comments:

I have question regarding tithing. A loan was taken from two creditors in hopes of starting up a new business. One loan was from a bank and the other a personal loan/ agreement in the equity of a house. These loans were to support the business operating expense and living expense till profitability. Should the person give tithe from the business on any revenue before paying one's overhead expense/supplies, employees, insurance , rent, the above loans and even before he/she is able to receive a paycheck? Does Christ ask us to tithe on what we do not own but have borrowed from others - whether it is in the form of employee work hours, business credit cards to pay supplies, rent from a landlord or business loan institution? It is without question to tithe on one's personal income but what if you don't have an income but are living off a loan to survive. Do you give tithe off of that loan and then again once you have made profitability to make its payment?

JimB · « **Reply #44 on:** August 31, 2006, 09:20:00 AM »

I do not myself have a straight forward answer. However what I have done is put together some of the Bible references to tithe. It may be a bit long but I tried to include enough of the verses to get the context. If I have missed something just post it.

And as it was suggested maybe we can study this together to learn what the Lord would have us do concerning tithe in all situations.

quote:

Gen 14:16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.
Gen 14:17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale.
Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Gen 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Lev 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
Deu 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Deu 14:27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.
Deu 14:28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
Deu 14:29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.
Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Heb 7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Richard Myers · « **Reply #45 on:** August 31, 2006, 10:16:00 PM »

What do we know about tithing? From Brother Jim's post we see that we are asked to tithe "all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year." Deut. 14:22.

I think a little thoughtful review of how a business works will be helpful so that we can see God is not arbitrary in his commands.

Let's say we are corn farmers and we are renting a piece of land. We buy some seed, fertilizer, and equipment. We also pay taxes on our income and we hire a few men to help at harvest time.

Some say we are to tithe on gross income. This cannot be, for you may not have a tithe to pay for you may not have a profit. And, if you don't have a profit, would God ask you to not pay your taxes, or your rent, or your seed bill, so that you can pay tithe? No.

Continuing with our example, we pay 12,000 rent, 4,000 seed and fertilizer, 6,000 for equipment, 1,200 fuel, 2,000 water, 5,000 labor, 3,000 misc. This totals 30,200. We sell our crop the first year for 33,000 net of sales expense. Our gross income is 33,000. Our net profit before taxes is 2,800. That is great! The first year we actually made money!!

The question is how much tithe do we pay? 10% of 33,000 is 3,300. Where are we going to get 3,300 dollars? We don't have it. We only made 2,800. So, God is not like this. He will not take all of my profit and make me borrow money to pay Him. I know my God better than that.

So, we pay on our increase, not on our gross income. Our net income before taxes was 2,800. But, remember we still owe people money. We owe both state and federal taxes on our income. Would God have me pay Him first or my taxes? Well, if you pay God first, you may not have enough left over to pay your taxes. I know my God better than that. He will not make you borrow money to pay your taxes. Pay your bills that are associated with your business and then what is left over is your real profit or "gain."

The first year there is not much left over. Maybe a gain of 1,000. So, tithe on the thousand dollars when you have paid your business expenses. Now, you are in a tight spot because you have personal expenses. Well... who you gonna pay first? Are you going to buy food for your family or tithe to God? Are you going to pay your car payment or are you going to pay God? I think we pay on the gain before our personal expenses. What do you think?

And when we can see this principle clearly, we shall be ready to take a closer look at the question posed to us.

ps....some worry that if they pay tithe they will not be able to feed their family or provide for other basic needs. By faith we look past what our eyes see and trust that God will provide for our needs as we are obedient to His commands. Obedience does not earn heaven, but it is a revelation of our faith in God and His promises. God will provide for our needs as we trust in Him fully.

Mimi · « **Reply #46 on:** April 11, 2007, 08:31:00 PM »

"I think we pay on the gain before our personal expenses. What do you think?"

That appears correct.

This thread is full of inconsistent understandings and some of them are bothersome. How do we solve this to come into an agreement that truly follows our Biblical requirement?

Some pay, some don't pay - some pay only when they physically go to church, others don't pay to the church, but to places they see the need! It appears as if we set our own rules regarding tithing. I think we need to look at this afresh -

There is also a provision given in the SOP that allows one to make tithe restitution ... are we familiar with it?

------------------
Sybil
"In times like these, we have a Savior!"

Richard Myers · « **Reply #47 on:** April 11, 2007, 10:10:00 PM »

Share with us your findings, Sister Sybil.

I think some of the difficulty comes into being because there is a lack of understanding that this is God's church. If we value the church then we shall feel a burden for her. I am not making a statement about where the tithe is to go, or saying that we are relieved of any personal responsibility, but I am saying that if we love the church, then we shall be working for her in all ways that we can.

Mimi · « **Reply #48 on:** April 12, 2007, 10:51:00 AM »

This topic is already established with Scripture and the SOP that tithing is scriptural so I don’t really want to duplicate and become redundant. And granted, I am no expert on this topic, but a simple member of the remnant church with even simpler thoughts on how this should be approached according to Scripture and the SOP – some forums do not even allow this to be discussed – it is a shame not to allow an open discussion of a Biblical mandate – and the discussions on those forums become hotbeds of insurrection because everyone is using their own opinions instead of looking to the only two sources for answers: first, the Scriptures and secondly, the Spirit of Prophecy for clarification and expansion of what the Scriptures say on this subject. It is not a complicated subject, yet we make it so by splitting hairs that are based upon our own desires and practices as to how we return to the Lord that which is already His. Would we tolerate such a myriad of opinions such as these when it comes to the gospel of salvation, the doctrine of grace or the Biblical rite of baptism?

So a good place to begin seems to be:

Ellen White asks the questions:

quote:
Is this the language of your heart? "I am wholly Thine, my Saviour; Thou hast paid the ransom for my soul, and all that I am or ever hope to be is Thine. Help me to acquire means, not to expend foolishly, not to indulge pride, but to use to Thine own name's glory." {CS 46.1}

In all you do, let your thought be, "Is this the way of the Lord? Will this please my Saviour? He gave His life for me; what can I give back to God? I can only say, 'Of Thine own, O lord, I freely give Thee.'" Unless the name of God is written in your forehead,-- written there because God is the center of your thoughts,--you will not be meet for the inheritance in light. It is your Creator who has poured out to you all heaven in one wondrous gift,--His only-begotten Son. . . . {CS 46.2}

God lays His hand upon the tithe, as well as upon gifts and offerings, and says, "That is Mine. When I entrusted you with My goods, I specified that a portion should be your own, to supply your necessities, and a portion should be returned to Me." {CS 46.3}
As you gathered in your harvest, storing barns and granary for your own comfort, did you return to God a faithful tithe? Have you presented to Him your gifts and offerings, that His cause may not suffer? {CS 46.4}

Mimi · « **Reply #49 on:** April 12, 2007, 12:03:00 PM »

quote:
Originally posted by M.A. Crawford:
Let me briefly elaborate on another important point and share with readers WHAT I BELIEVE:
"Will a man rob God?.... Bring ye all the tithe into the storehouse that there may be meat in mine house...." Malachi 3:8-10.
I quoted these two portions of Scripture for the following reasons:
1. "Will a man rob God?" When I return my tithe to the local church, which then follows the chain of tithe distribution, I do not view it as returning my tithe to the church, or to "them." I am returning it unto the Lord. WHAT THE CHURCH DOES WITH IT IS BETWEEN THE CHURCH AND THE LORD. If one is disenchanted with what church officials do with the tithe, THERE ARE PROPER PROCEDURES TO FOLLOW to address those grievances which, in my opinion, does not include withholding God's tithe.
2. "Bring ye all the tithe into the storehouse." There may be as many interpretations as to what constitutes "the storehouse" as there are people doing the interpreting. But, AS FOR ME, the "storehouse" is the present system of systematic benevolence where one submits his/her tithe to the local congregation, who submits it to the local or regional conference, then on to the union, division, and general conference. This may not be, in the opinion of others, the "right course of action" for them to follow, but it is for me. Others may believe what they so choose to believe. I am convinced that God is a God of order, and therefore commands us to DO ALL THINGS decently and in order (1 Cor. 14:40). This is the tithing system plan that was adopted by the early pioneers of this church and is the one that, I believe, is followed by the majority of members today.
Again, I go back to what I stated earlier in this post. I believe that THE LOVE WE HAVE IN OUR HEARTS FOR GOD will be the overriding factor in all that we do unto salvation, INCLUDING TITHING!!!
M.A.

Amen, dear brother. This post is presented for its biblical truths and remedies given to us through the SOP when we believe the tithes are being misused after our tithe envelopes leave our hands into the offering plate, on its way to the local conferences and beyond. When we have those concerns, we are to speak up about it, do what is in our power to correct it and leave the consequences with God; however, the most important element is what our brother adds at the end of his post: the underlying motivation in returning to God that which is already His.

God furnishes us with the ability to make money. And the quickest way to make an enemy is to come between anyone and their money. We are protective of it, after all, it is ours - or is it? No, all the money belonging to any one of us is a result of it being the Lord's first. He simply allowed it to come into our possession. We do believe He controls all things, don't we? We preach it, we rely upon it – we have faith that He is in control, especially as prophecy believing people who know for a fact He is working out His purposes in these last days, otherwise we are lost to the wiles of Satan and we do not know what is coming next! If we are sure of this belief of His control, then He controls how and when we get money and we respect His right to tell us what to do with it.

Regarding returning His 10%, all of a sudden a possessive carnal heart becomes the rightful possessors of that 10% and usurps His right to it by determining under what circumstances we give it back to Him. That seems absurd to me when through Scripture He has told us how to accomplish it. Do we sit back in judgment of God, thinking we know better than the Hand that created us?

[This message has been edited by Sybil (edited 04-13-2007).]

Mimi · « **Reply #50 on:** April 12, 2007, 04:29:00 PM »

posts moved to Laodicea SDA forum.

[This message has been edited by Richard Myers (edited 04-14-2007).]

Thank you, Richard. You are wise and watchful.

[This message has been edited by Sybil (edited 04-14-2007).]