Author Topic: Christ and Him Crucified  (Read 24931 times)

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DavidTBattler

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Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2000, 09:15:00 PM »
Just a brief note as I revisit this interesting topic on this forum.  As I consider the excellent nature of Christ at ANY POINT IN TIME, all I can think of is
1 Cor.13.

To me, anything else that suggests otherwise should be taboo.

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"The joy of the Lord will be your strength."  (Neh.8:10).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler


M.A. Crawford

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Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2000, 03:11:00 PM »
A leading evangelist of this (SDA) denomination once made a statement during a sermon that had a profound effect on me. He stated that the cross was more than just an instrument of death. It was also an instrument of torture whose primary function was to maximize pain and suffering in an individual in order to create the greatest posible discomfort and torture.  

Knowing that He was the Son of God and had the power, He could have come down from the cross and called a legion of angels to His aid if He had so desired. But His desire to finish His mission and the work assigned to Him to save mankind was GREATER THAN His desire to come down from the cross of Calvary. Think about that for a moment.

Christ suffered as none of us will ever be called upon to suffer in this life. Notwithstanding the beating and torture that took place prior to, how many of us could have withstood the pain, suffering, and discomfort associated with being nailed to a cross?

The suffering of Christ on Calvary is at the very heart of the Gospel message of salvation. When men and women, boys and girls, are sincere in wanting to be saved and understand as they should the love that God has for all mankind, THEN love for God and for our fellow man will be the governing force and power in our lives each and every day that we live. There is no greater theme that can be presented to humankind than the fact that "...God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Rom. 5:8).

M.A.    

M.A.

DavidTBattler

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Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #62 on: September 11, 2000, 02:15:00 AM »
"Three crosses once stood on a lonely hill
where three were crucified
There was One without blame on the middle cross
And a thief on either side..."
"Father O Father forgive them NOW;
came the cry from the middle cross!"

"When we were enemies; we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more,
being reconciled: we shall be saved by His life."  (Rom.5:10).

The cross of Jesus Christ is the great centre of all time: the meeting place of this life and the next.

In fact; the word "History," is said to be an abbreviated form of "HIS-STORY."

" If our eyes were fixed on Jesus; as He died on Calvary, we'd see the perfect Son of God, giving life to you and me!"

------------------
"The joy of the Lord will be your strength."  (Neh.8:10).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler

[This message has been edited by DavidTBattler (edited 09-11-2000).]


DavidTBattler

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Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #63 on: September 18, 2000, 11:19:00 PM »
Hello Brothers and Sisters:

I hope this post isn't too long...I felt that God wanted me to share it...may God add His blessing to the reading of His Word, as contained in this message:   

            "IT IS FINISHED"

"When Jesus had therefore received the vinegar, He said; 'It is finished:' and He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost."

There seems to be a problem in understanding Calvary, and what God intends for the Human race through the cross of Christ.  In what way can the cross be of real use to people in the year 2000?  Jesus died 2,000 years ago.  What does that have to do with anything now?  

There is a great deal of modern preaching which presents, as a remedy for sin, things like puppy love, social regeneration, culture, self development, etc.  Today, Papists, punk rockers, and everybody in between place crosses on their Churches, upon their altars, or around their necks or on the ear lobe, as part of their garments.  Everywhere is seen the insignia of the cross.  The cross is outwardly exalted by many  people from many walks of life.  

The Bible tells us that very serious problems can develop out of this kind of thing.  The most serious problem is that Jesus tells us, not to let our crosses shine: but rather, He says longingly:
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your     good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."  (Mat.5:16).

"When the Saviour yielded up His life, and with His [last] breath cried out: 'It is finished,' (Jo.19:30), [it was] then [that] the plan of redemption was assured.  The promise of salvation to the sinful pair [way back] in Eden was [verified].  The kingdom of grace, which before had existed by the promise of God was then established.  Thus, the death of Christ - the very event which the disciples had looked upon as the final destruction of their hope, was [actually] that which made it forever sure."  
(G.C. .347).

Jesus died to recreate the mind of God in the helpless human agent.  "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus...who...made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death - even the death of the cross."  (Phil.2: 5-8).  
There is no Biblical reason to look upon Jesus as a great martyr.  His death was not something which happened to Him that might have been prevented.  His death was the very reason He came to planet Earth!  Jesus once said to His disciples: "My meat is to do the will of Him that sent Me, and to finish His work."  (Jo.4:34).

"In this life, we can only begin to understand the wonderful theme of redemption.  With our finite comprehension, we may consider most earnestly the shame and the glory, the life and the death, the justice and the mercy, that meet in the cross; yet with the utmost stretch of our mental powers, we fail to grasp it's full significance..."  (G.C.650).

I have often wondered: what do I really know about the cross?  Sometimes, I have gotten the feeling that I can't quite keep up with all the things of salvation.  New knowledge is always unfolding.  There's always new things to do.  New things to study.  New things to think.  I have gotten tired of it all at times.
And yet, we are told:
"The cross of Christ will be the science and the song of the redeemed through all eternity..."  (G.C.650).
Even though I have sincerely given my heart to Jesus, the cross is still a bit of a mystery, yet, inspired counsel tells us that:

"The mystery of the cross explains ALL other mysteries."  (G.C.651).  

When I decided to write on the subject of the cross, I thought: "What can I say, that somebody in the Church doesn't already know, and that somebody will really care about and relate to?  There is so much theology about the cross and many Christians have a sort of religious pride about their "accurate" knowledge of the cross. And if what you  say  does not agree with their personal fancy, they will label you, or the Church you attend as somehow being unsaved, legalistic, or deluded.  You might even get labelled as a cult!

Have you ever talked about the cross to someone, only to find as many different opinions as people you talk to?  What good is all the knowledge of the cross if this is how it ends up?  Creating as many different denominations or disagreements as you can count?   Is there a problem with the Bible account of the cross that there are so many views on it?
No, there is no problem with the Bible, or the cross. The problem is only with our understanding.  God's way of thinking is so different than ours.  (compare also Isa.55:8).

1 Corinthians 2:9 - “But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.”

Church: This may come as a shocker to you, but, you should never talk about forgiveness based only on the fact that God is our Father and that He will forgive us because He loves us!  This is not what the Bible says about Jesus Christ's revelation of God; it makes the cross unnecessary; and the perfect Redemption of the Saviour a pointless fable.  If  God does forgive sin, it is only because of the death of Jesus Christ.  (See Eph.2:13, Heb.10:19).

God could not forgive people any other way, except by the death of His Son; and Jesus is exalted to be our Saviour, only  because of His death on Calvary.  "...We see Jesus who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour..."  (Heb.2:9).
The greatest note of triumph ever sounded in the ears of a startled universe, was sounded on the cross of Jesus Christ.  "It is finished!"  (Jo.19:30).  That is the last Word in the redemption of fallen human beings!  There is nothing you or I or anyone can add to it, no matter what you say, think, or do!

Anything that belittles or obliterates the holiness of God, by a false view of the love of God, by eliminating the need for Christ and Him crucified, is untrue to the revelation of God given by Jesus Christ Himself.  How dare we allow the sentimental thought that Jesus Christ stands with us, against a vengeful God, strictly out of pity and compassion; or that He became a curse for us out of sympathy with us?

Jesus Christ became a curse for us out of agreement with, and submission to, the divinely appointed solution for the fallen state of the human race.

What does it all mean for us today?  If we realize that the tremendous meaning of the curse is conviction of our sinfulness, and our need for a Saviour, then the great gift of repentance will be given to us, because: "Him hath God exalted...to be a Prince and a Saviour, and to GIVE REPENTANCE to [Pineridge Church], AND forgiveness of sins!"  (Acts 5:31).  This is the great mercy of God that sets people free from the chains that bind them to Satan's claims that God does not really love the human race.  Jesus Christ hates only the sin that is in human beings - and Calvary is the estimate of  His hatred!

The most amazing discovery I have made yet in my Christian walk is that "In the cross, all influence centres, and from it, all influence goes forth...If the cross does not find an influence in it's favour, it creates an influence!"  [repeat again].
(Manuscript 56, 1899).

I said:

The most amazing discovery I have made yet in my Christian walk is that "In the cross, all influence centres, and from it, all influence goes forth...If the cross does not find an influence in it's favour, it creates an influence!"

Last week in Church; I sat there all discouraged and irritated at some wrongs an individual in the Church had done to me.  I was really treated like a bag of dirt.  In fact; I didn’t even want to be in Church because of it.  We had communion that day; and through a series of events; I had no partner for the ordinance of humility, (footwashing), and I was looking around for someone whom I wasn’t mad at to do it with, and “get it over with.”  Wouldn’t you know it.  Christ had been speaking to me as I tried to find a partner, and He said: “You need to pray for them, and bless them...”  Well, I was arguing away with God about it: “No way!  I won’t!”  Just then, the guy I was most angry with came around the corner; looking for a partner.  I didn’t really want to pray for him. But I did; and that’s when the Word had His chance.  I am becoming friends again with this man.  Christ, and Him crucified has saved me from the sad tragedy of another  broken dream in my church experience

When Jesus said: "It is finished," He was assuring us that we can come to Him just as we are.  Whenever we don't come to the Saviour openly and honestly, our life starts to get a bit like trying to lift up  your car with one hand, and changing the tire with the other hand...You just can't do it. "If  you are like me,  you won't be able to bear the weight even  for a minute.  Likewise, when your trials hit, you'll drop Jesus, without hesitation as did Peter when He denied the Lord who was about to die for him.  Peter was not in the habit of going to Jesus as he really was!  ("I'll never deny you Lord!").  And as soon as the tension level went up, Jesus was put down!

When Jesus said, "It is finished," He was assuring us that if we did not come to Him just as we are, that we would drop our  beliefs, the very minute a  heavy  trial hit us, just like I would put my car down in a hurry when I try to hold it up!  

When Jesus said, "It is finished," He was telling us in fervent tones of love that "The Atonement of Christ is not a mere skilful way to have our sins pardoned; it is the divine remedy for the cure of transgression, and the restoration of spiritual health.  It is the heaven ordained means by which the righteousness of Christ may not only be upon us, but in our hearts and characters."  (6BC 1074).

When Christ said, "It is finished," He gave each of us today the opportunity to say:
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."  (Gal.2:20).

"The surrender of the heart to Jesus subdues the rebel [soul] into a penitent [one], and then, the language of the obedient soul is: 'Old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.'
(2 Cor.5:17).  This is the true religion of the Bible.  Anything short of this is [outright Satanic] deception,"  (4T 625), and will eventually weigh you down like  lifting up your car with one hand.

When Jesus said, "It is finished," He was giving us the strongest possible illustration that we, today, here in *******Church simply need to accept the fact, in all of our life circumstances that we are:

   IN HIS HANDS

The hands that made the world and gave the sun and moon their light, the tiny hands of a Baby born one cold [winter] night. The hands that stilled the wind, and tamed the fury of  the  sea,
the calloused hands of a Carpenter, Who lived in   poverty...The hands that held the power to break the binding chains of  sin  the gentle hands that washed the feet of tired and dusty  men...The hands that cleansed the leper, healed the blind, and raised the dead,  the praying hands of One Who cried, "Not My will, but thine instead..."  The hands that    shaped the universe, and flung the stars in space, the nail pierced hands of a dying man Who suffered in our    place...The hands of our Creator, Lord, and King of Heaven above, the Saviour's hands, forever reaching out to us    with love.

"Because Jesus said, "It is finished,"  Christians can't help but sing:

"Christ has for sin Atonement made, What a wonderful Saviour!"
(Hymn # 335).

------------------
"The joy of the Lord will be your strength."  (Neh.8:10).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler


Richard Myers

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Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #64 on: September 19, 2000, 09:09:00 PM »
Amen!
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

M.A. Crawford

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Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2000, 10:41:00 AM »
Bro Battler gave a very excellent presentation dated 09-18-2000 at 11:19 PM on "Christ and Him Crucufied." In it he asked a question of which I would like to briefly respond: "...In what way can the cross be of real use to people in the year 2000?"...

I am convinced that a major problem we have in some of our local congregations today is the lack of emphasis on Christ and Him crucified. I do not believe the blame fully lies with the church pastors because they come and go. I believe it is the responsibility of the local elder(s), officers, leaders, and laymen (including women) to keep before the people during Sabbath School and Divine Worship Hour (when in the pulpit) the fact of Christ and Him crucified. We need to constantly present Jesus, high and lifted up, before the people EVERY SABBATH in both portions of the service: SS and Divine Worship. In other words, I believe it is the responsibility of the LOCAL CONGREGATION to feed and strengthen its own, and not depend completely on the pastor.

There are those of us who post messages in the various forums who are "spiritually endowed" and have been given much in the way of understanding what "Thus Saith the Lord." God has given to us what He has given to us in order that we might be a blessing to others by helping them to understand what they need to understand in the way of spiritual growth and development. Of whom much is given, much is required (Luke 12:48).

Finaly, UNLESS WE ARE AFRAID of what people will say or think, I believe we can deal the enemy a "knockout blow" if we would speak up and speak out in our various assemblies, and help our people to become strong in the Lord, and grow in grace and in the knowledge of Christ and Him crucified.

M.A.

M.A.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #66 on: October 15, 2000, 09:56:00 AM »
It has been brought to my attention in some of the messages I have read lately (not in ROL) that there seems to be a "groundswell" among some who seem to think that Christ was crucified on a Wednesday or Thursday. This is not possible because of the following:

"And now when the evening was come, because it was the preparation, that is, THE DAY BEFORE THE SABBATH, Joseph of Arimathaea, an honorable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus" (Mark 15:42, 43, emphasis mine). Verses 33 through 39 point out that Christ is on the cross on this preparation day. This preparation day, the day before the Sabbbath, could not have been Wednesday because Thursday is not the Sabbath. This preparation day could not have been Thursday because Friday is not the Sabbath. There is ONLY ONE DAY that Mark 15:42 could be referring to as the preparation day, the day before the Sabbath, AND THAT DAY IS FRIDAY, the day on which Christ was crucified.

What we believe unto salvation MUST be based upon the Word of God and not on some book or magazine article. Otherwise we place ourselves in a very precarious position to be deceived by the enemy.

M.A.  

M.A.

charlene

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« Reply #67 on: October 15, 2000, 10:30:00 AM »
I have had it explained this way, Christ died on thursday, in the garden, when he gave in to His Fathers will and all the sins of the nations were put upon Him.  I think some are reaching to explain the 'three days' of Christ being in the tomb....Why do we spend time on unessential things.  If the Bible says it ...it is true, we don't have to figure it out.  The jews recond any part of a day, as a whole day thus, die friday pm and one day, in grave as day two, and dawn of sunday as day three.  The devil would like to confuse the issue so these texts can not be used as proof for the Sabbath.

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charlene

charlene

M.A. Crawford

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Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #68 on: October 17, 2000, 04:15:00 PM »
"The devil would like to confuse the issue so these texts can not be used as proof for the Sabbath."

A very good point. As I have stated before, whatever we believe unto salvation MUST be based upon the Word of God AS IT READS. Otherwise we are setting ourselves up to become confused by all of the "voices in the wind" that are now trying to "interpret" the Bible to suit their particular fancy.

All who desire to be saved should be very, very cautious of interpretations that try to read things into the words of Scripture that are not there; such as the Wednesday or Thursday crucifixion of Christ, for example.  

Here in these last days the enemy will work with all deliberate speed and power because he knows that his time is short and Jesus is soon to come. Weak Christians who vacillate because they do not study their Bibles as they should will be the primary ones who will come under attack. When they are required to defend their faith unto salvation, they will have difficulty in doing so because what they believe will not be based upon the Solid Rock.

Suffice it to say that the Scriptures are OUR ONLY SAFEGUARD against all the deceit and confusion that have already found their way into the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

M.A.  

M.A.

Richard Myers

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Re: Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #69 on: August 30, 2010, 11:21:17 AM »
And not only confuse this issue, but get other topics of far less importance to overshadow this all important subject! Christ and Him crucified is the all important subject. We are to keep Jesus at the center of our thoughts. We are to live for Him. Self is to die and remain dead. Selfishness is death.  Christ is life!
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Donna H

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Re: Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2010, 05:40:48 PM »
When they are required to defend their faith unto salvation, they will have difficulty in doing so because what they believe will not be based upon the Solid Rock. 

This is very important... More than that, crucial. And this may be one of the joys of trial. It forces us to let the anchor down and find that Solid Rock. The Bible says, "Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted" (2Timothy 3:12). This is ineveitable. When we are required to defend our faith, it is an opportunity, a blessing. While we are to "seek peace and persue it", trial will find us, show us the weaknesses in our faith and obedience, and allow us to dig deeper into the Word for help, stability, and refuge. And we are raised up by the unworldly power of God's strength in our weakness. It is beautiful, and makes it possible to know if we really would defend our faith unto salvation, or not. Trials are a gift.

The sad thing is, without accepting the Word as it is, but instead as we want it to be, it's quite possible we will never even know we have faltered. We seek self as if it were an angel of light, or God's word. Sin is deceitful. Terribly deceitful. "But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin" (Hebrews 3:13). It is so, so important to be willing to let reliance on self fall away, in what ever form we do that - ideas, creativity, acomplishments, comforts in the world , understandings, especially understanding of scripture - and trail gives us that opportunity. Then we may know, and have victories to look back upon to more properly assess ourselves, so that we will be able to defend our faith unto salvation.

The Sabbath is so important in so many ways. I'm getting really passionate about this. People who reject the Sabbath AS IT IS COMMANDED, are rejecting so much good.

1. They are just flat out not experiencing the joy of obedience. Whatever the reason, to take the command as it is, is obedience, just plain obedience. Who even needs to know more than that? But,

2. Its a day to remember the might works of God (Deut. 5:15). God has promised to bless where He causes His name to be remembered. Giving a command is causing us to remember Him. And remembering Him IS a blessing. Acknowledging Him as Creator, as ReCreator, is peace to the soul. And strength to our faith.

3. It is how we KNOW God is the One who sanctifies us (Ex. 31:13). I would ask all those who do not keep the Sabbath, or keep it on Sunday, do you know what it is to be sanctified? Do you know this intimacy and wonderful work that God does in us? Growth happens, we learn and we change, but wow, when we are close to God for this walk it is the most amazing thing. I'd like to suggest that those who do not obey the Sabbath command as it is, may not know truly know what it is to be sanctified.

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'

Sanctification is incredibly imtimate, beyond explanation. In my relationship with Christ it is one in the same as healing, and this is where I come to know Him, and where I am an open book to Him.

4. The Sabbath has been set aside. An actual day, a portion of time, has been set aside and blessed by God. It is a holy day. Can you imagine that? A day like no other where, if we obey, we actually enter this holiness, we enter into this rest, we taset it. For me, the day reallly is different. It is like on that day, if I keep it holy, I walk closer to God, I feel protected, or something different. It's time thats been made holy. Just to imagine that is amazing. And experiencing the day is different than any other day of the week. It is a gift, and blessing flow in/from it.

5. "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy" (Ex. 20:11). God's rest leads to holy leads to complete/final rest.

The Sabbath is a crucial part of my being able to defend my faith in that it provides what I need in order to do that. I believe, that I would not be able to defend my faith unto salvation without accepting the Word as it is given, with thought, with prayer, with reliance on the Holy Spirit for guidance, with commitment to learn, and the conviction to let anything other than the Truth as it is in Jesus Christ, whatever doesn't belong, fall away, or
be removed, however God sees fit to remove it. And the Sabbath, it seems to all come together in the Sabbath.

This is serious stuff. None of it should be taken lightly. This is our God, and His help. We need His guidance, not our own. He is for us, not against us: "If God is for us, who is against us?" (Romans 8:41). Why would we reject His help, and prefer ourselves; our limited, dark, selfish, confused, lonely, pain-causing, and dying selves?

"It is written, ' MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD'" (Mathew 4:4).

Which means we will LIVE by the Word of God. There is no other way. 






Faith is the living power that presses through every barrier, overrides all obstacles, and plants its banner in the heart of the enemy’s camp. 4T 163.3

Richard Myers

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Re: Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2010, 09:59:11 PM »
Amen!!! And then we shall cease crucifying our Lord.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Mimi

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Re: Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2010, 04:12:34 AM »
Donna - you are such an inspiration! I especially like what you said here:

Quote
It is so, so important to be willing to let reliance on self fall away, in what ever form we do that - ideas, creativity, accomplishments, comforts in the world , understandings, especially understanding of scripture - and trail gives us that opportunity. Then we may know, and have victories to look back upon to more properly assess ourselves, so that we will be able to defend our faith unto salvation.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Donna H

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Re: Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2010, 09:53:33 AM »
I read this in my devotional this morning, seemed very appropriate.

"The people of God will be tested and proved. A close and searching work must go on among Sabbathkeepers. Like ancient Israel, how soon we forget God and His wonderous works, and rebel against Him." (1T 287)

The Sabbath is so special and important. I pray that all, will find the Sabbath, accept it as it is given to us, and not miss out on the opportunities in it.

Amen.
Donna
Faith is the living power that presses through every barrier, overrides all obstacles, and plants its banner in the heart of the enemy’s camp. 4T 163.3

Richard Myers

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Re: Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2010, 12:00:11 PM »
Amen.  A close and searching work will go on in all professing Christians. Many will be lacking when they awaken in the second resurrection. But, all will be without excuse.  Christ tried and the trials were part of the process.

I was reminded this morning that the Apostle Paul was given a thorn in his side. He prayed three times to have it removed, but it was not. He understood, do we?  He had seen himself through that close examination. He knew that in him was no good thing and that even with all the knowledge he had of Christ, he needed to be reminded that he was wholly dependent upon Him who gave all that we might live.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Mimi

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Re: Christ and Him Crucified
« Reply #75 on: August 31, 2010, 04:56:20 PM »
Yes, he was and so are we.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89