Romans 7 and 8

[Richard Myers]

The all important lesson in our study of Romans seven and eight is to understand our need of a new heart and mind. The carnal mind is enmity with God. We need to be reconciled to God in order to have eternal life. The unconverted heart is deceitfully wicked. When born of the Spirit, a change has taken place. The new Christian no longer has a carnal mind, but possesses the "mind of Christ". "Let this mind be in you that is in Christ Jesus." Philippians 2:5.

It is through the Holy Spirit that man's heart is renewed so that he has the mind of Christ. Like Scripture, except made more plain, we must read and take the Spirit of Prophecy material just as it is written. What is presented here is in complete harmony with Scripture:  "Human beings may have eternal life if they will accept the principles of heaven, and allow Christ to bring the heart and mind into obedience to the law of Jehovah." RH5/3/06 This means that if the heart and mind are not fully given to God so that they are obedient to the law, then the person does not have eternal life.  There is no other way to read this. It is a plain simple statement that is in harmony with Scripture.

[Richard Myers]

L.E.S.  wrote this. He appears to have gotten it right. If we are filled with the Spirit, then all of the fruits of the Spirit are seen in the life. When disconnected from Christ, none of the fruits of the Spirit  are seen in the life.

"Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." The influence of the life of Christ is in itself magnetic. For one to live with Jesus and not experience a change of heart is impossible. Connect a piece of steel with a magnet. The very moment they are connected,, the steel partakes of the nature of the magnet, and at once begins to attract other bodies. This power is not its own; it simply comes as a result of the connection with the magnet. When once this connection is broken, the steel returns to its former inactive state.

The usefulness of man is dependent on his connection with Christ, the great magnet. Educational attainments, human ability, and man's capability can not save the soul. When the human soul is connected with Christ, the life partakes of the divine nature. It is just as impossible for man, when united with Christ, not to partake of the divine nature, as for the steel to connect with the magnet and not be magnetized.

When connected with Christ, the life becomes a power to draw souls to Him; when separate, the life is a power to drive souls to destruction. Steel may be manufactured into a sledge hammer, then used to do an effectual work. Each blow leaves its impress on the recipient as it is driven downward into the ground. So it is with the human soul. If the life is not in that living connection with Christ, if the soul does not reflect the character of Christ, its work consists in driving souls to the acceptance of theory. Theory can never save the soul. It may be based on the word of God, yet if it lacks the power of salvation, it falls short of the gospel; for " the gospel is the power of God unto salvation." Not until Christ is accepted into the life, can any soul keep the commandments. Anything outside of this is justification by works.

The sad feature of the work of this life separated from Christ, is that in consequence of its manner of labor it is ruinous to the soul as well as to the Church. Like the dead sledge, it works by the pounding process, every blow leaving a mark on the character, and driving the soul downward, into the earth. This manner of labor, instead of drawing the soul heavenward, will drive it away from the Church into the world of sin. It is a sad fact that many of our youth have been driven away from our churches by this
harsh, unloving spirit. The Church is dying for love. The home needs it; and sinners are dying in their sins for want of it. The Spirit of God says, " Come." Rev. 22: 17. Workers in the Lord's harvest field, have you received this spirit of " Come " ? Parents, does this spirit, made manifest in your home and in
the world, say, Come? Churches, does your Influence in a lost, perishing world say, Come? " Have ye received the Holy Ghost ? "

[Richard Myers]

Christ tells us "Dwell in me and I in you." Some do not understand that in order to have spiritual life, to be born again, we must be filled with the Spirit of God. In whom will Christ dwell? None until they are repentant and of a contrite heart. "thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with h:m also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones." Isa. 57:15., Through the psalmist the Lord also says: "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a Contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." " The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit." Ps. 51: 17; 34: 18. "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

Contrition involves the surrender of the will. When fully surrendered to Jesus, we are born again. Thus, "If any man is in Christ, he is a new creature." 2 Cor. 5:17. Contrition is sorrow for sin. "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation." 2 Cor. 7:10. As the mind contemplates the thought that Jesus suffered for our sins, the heart becomes filled with love and it is purified. Thus saith the Lord,"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." Ezekiel 36:26, 27.  Such a promise to the contrite ones!

[Glen]

....even the converted man, with all his strong desires to do right, with all his warm love for God, with all his new motives and his strongly redirected will, cannot on his own, overcome.

Exactly! That is the whole point of the acceptance of the promises of God by an erstwhile proud sinner. For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. Isaiah 57:15

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1 John 4:12

God can and will do a great work for every human being who will open the heart to the word of God, and let it enter the soul-temple and expel every idol. Summoned to the effort, mind and heart take in the wonderful disclosures of the revealed will of God. The soul that is converted will be made stronger to resist evil. In the study of the Bible the converted soul eats the flesh and drinks the blood of the Son of God, which He himself interprets as the receiving and doing of His words, that are spirit and life. The Word is made flesh, and dwells among us, in those who receive the holy precepts of the word of God. Fundamentals of Christian Education 378.01

The Son of God lived a perfect life of obedience in this world. We need always to keep in view the truthfulness of the humanity of Christ Jesus. When Christ became our substitute and surety, it was as a human being. He came as a man, and rendered the obedience of human nature to the only true God. He came not to show us what God could do, but what God did do, and what man, [when he is] a partaker of the divine nature, can do. It was the human nature of Christ that endured the temptations in the wilderness, not His divine nature. In His human nature He endured the contradiction of sinners against Himself. He lived a perfect human life. Jesus is everything to us, and He says to us, "Without Me ye can do nothing." Manuscript Releases Volume Fourteen 334.01

True faith and repose in God are always accompanied by the illumination of the Holy Spirit, whose temple we are. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ; it is His representative. Here is the divine agency that carries conviction to hearts. When the power of His Spirit is revealed through the servants of God, we behold divinity flashing through humanity. When accompanied by the Holy Spirit, the presentation of truth as it is in Jesus will be of more value than all the honor or glory of the world.
Manuscript Releases Volume Thirteen 313.03

I see an interesting similarity between Christ's declaration: I can of mine own self do nothing:...31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. John 5:30, 31 ("Is it present tense? Yes"); --with that of Paul, in his statement: So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh, the law of sin. Romans 7:25 We can see Paul's obvious intent that any one of us, merely professing to be Christ's, will, by our "self", OF our "self", while the Spirit continues to draw us on to genuine conversion, ....with the mind ....serve the law of God; but with the flesh, the law of sin. -In other words: ....the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Romans 8:7 As Peter when he sunk beneath the waves, not looking to Christ might have thought to himself, "So then with the mind(trusting in Christ alone) I myself walk on water; but with the flesh, I sink." Peter was not in the Spirit the moment he sank. And, must it be said; even Christ, at His own word, admitted that of His own self He could do nothing; that were He to bear witness of Himself, His "witness is not true."

Looking unto Jesus, Peter walks securely; but as in self-satisfaction he glances back toward his companions in the boat, his eyes are turned from the Saviour. The wind is boisterous. The waves roll high, and come directly between him and the Master; and he is afraid. For a moment Christ is hidden from his view, and his faith gives way. He begins to sink. But while the billows talk with death, Peter lifts his eyes from the angry waters, and fixing them upon Jesus, cries, “Lord, save me.” Immediately Jesus grasps the outstretched hand, saying, “O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?” The Desire of Ages 381.05

Walking side by side, Peter’s hand in that of his Master, they stepped into the boat together. But Peter was now subdued and silent. He had no reason to boast over his fellows, for through unbelief and self-exaltation he had very nearly lost his life. When he turned his eyes from Jesus, his footing was lost, and he sank amid the waves. DA 381.06

When trouble comes upon us, how often we are like Peter! We look upon the waves, instead of keeping our eyes fixed upon the Saviour. Our footsteps slide, and the proud waters go over our souls.... DA 382.01

This is why the Spirit expressly moved Paul and Timotheus to write: Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who.... 8 ....being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Philippians 2:5, 6, 8 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Corinthians 13:5

The purpose of the Godhead is for man to re-gain that which was lost in Eden; here, now; -to, while yet on this sin polluted world ....become changed into His image in spirit and character. Manuscript Releases Volume Thirteen [Nos. 1000-1080], Page 279.01 The converted Christian is to have such an experience with the Godhead (baptized in the likeness of the death of Christ, sensing the pains of the Second Death See The Upward Look 63.05) that we, with (the mind of Christ) may comprehend that: The law is an expression of God’s idea. When we receive it in Christ, it becomes our idea. It lifts us above the power of natural desires and tendencies, above temptations that lead to sin (Letter 96, 1896).

Those who consecrate themselves to God, and who have the protection of His grace and the quickening influence of His Spirit, will manifest keener intellectual power than the mere worldling. They will be able to reach the highest, noblest exercise of every faculty. That I May Know Him 8.04

The impartation of the Spirit is the impartation of the life of Christ. Those only who are thus taught of God, those only who possess the inward working of the Spirit, and in whose life the Christ-life is manifested, can stand as true representatives of the Saviour.... Gods Amazing Grace 212. 03

Christ promised that the Holy Spirit should abide with those who wrestle for victory over sin, to demonstrate the power of divine might by endowing the human agent with supernatural strength and instructing the ignorant in the mysteries of the kingdom of God.... Gods Amazing Grace 212.04

When one is fully emptied of self, when every false god is cast out of the soul, the vacuum is filled by the inflowing of the Spirit of Christ. Such a one has the faith that purifies the soul from defilement. He is conformed to the Spirit, and he minds the things of the Spirit. He has no confidence in self. Christ is all and in all. Gods Amazing Grace 212.05
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. John 14:10

....In His person humanity, inhabited by divinity, was represented to the world.... God's Amazing Grace 14.03

Oh yes, my friend, ....thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 7:25

[Glen]

As Christ represented the Father, so we are to represent Christ to the world....God desires to make known to you what is the richness of his glory, that you may preach the mystery of salvation to those around you,—Christ in you the hope of glory. The Review and Herald March 5, 1889.06

The knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ expressed in character is an exaltation above everything that is esteemed in earth or in heaven. It is the very highest education. It is the very key that opens to us the portals of heaven, that we may obtain eternal life, an immortal inheritance, and eternal substance. All who have this knowledge are constantly advancing heavenward. They have a good report in their own family, in the church, and in the world. Manuscript Releases Volume Six 165.02

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. John 17:20-23

Jesus, dwelling in you, desires to speak to the hearts of those who are not acquainted with Him. Perhaps they do not read the Bible, or do not hear the voice that speaks to them in its pages; they do not see the love of God through His works. But if you are a true representative of Jesus, it may be that through you they will be led to understand something of His goodness and be won to love and serve Him. Steps to Christ 115.01

Christians are set as light bearers on the way to heaven. They are to reflect to the world the light shining upon them from Christ. Their life and character should be such that through them others will get a right conception of Christ and of His service. Steps to Christ 115.02

As we daily take up our cross and follow Him, Christ lives His life in us, even as we are ...born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:13

Each individual within whom Christ, {in the fulness of the Godhead (Colossians 2:9)} abides, can say, ....as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. John 5:30,31 Notice: Jesus is here saying that if He bears witness of Himself, His witness is not true. "; thus, Paul's exultation in Romans 7:25, is the exultation, the boast ....because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. - -I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. - -He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. " Q:Is it present tense.  A: Yes"

....God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Galatians 6:14

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Galatians 5:24

So: Those who let the mind of Christ dwell in them richly, will walk as Christ(Philippians 1:21), in the Spirit; not in the flesh. (Galatians 5:19) Man-made divisions of chapters aside, Paul makes his intent clear in the following verses: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1-4

WHEN WISDOM (But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 1 Corinthians 1:30)  ENTERETH INTO THINE HEART, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul; 11 Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee: 12 To deliver thee from the way of the evil man (SELF), from the man that speaketh froward things; 13 Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness; 14 Who rejoice to do evil, and delight in the frowardness of the wicked; 15 Whose ways are crooked, and they froward in their paths: 16 To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words; 17 Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God. 18 For her house inclineth unto death, and her paths unto the dead. 19 None that go unto her return again, neither take they hold of the paths of life. 20 That thou mayest walk in the way of good men, and keep the paths of the righteous. 21 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. 22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. Proverbs 2:10-22[/color]

The largest share of the annoyances of life, its daily corroding cares, its heartaches, its irritation, is the result of a temper uncontrolled. . . . The government of self is the best government in the world. By putting on the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, ninety-nine out of a hundred of the troubles which so terribly embitter life might be saved. . . . The natural man must die, and the new man, Christ Jesus, take possession of the soul, so that the follower of Jesus may say in verity and truth: Galatians 2:20  20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. God's Amazing Grace 39.03

He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.  John 7:18

Consider prayerfully the divine truth that:
-So then with the mind of Christ, we serve the law of God; but with the Spirit of Christ, the law of life.

When Christ would define the advancement possible for us, He said, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” This advancement is not gained without effort. The Christian life is a battle and a march. But the victory to be gained is not won by human power. The field of conflict is the domain of the heart. The battle which we have to fight—the greatest battle that was ever fought by man—is the surrender of self to the will of God, the yielding of the heart to the sovereignty of love. The old nature, born of blood and of the will of the flesh, can not inherit the kingdom of God. The hereditary tendencies, the formed habits, must be given up.
The Signs of the Times May 18, 1904.03

He who determines to enter the spiritual kingdom will find that all the powers and passions of an unregenerate nature, backed by the forces of the kingdom of darkness, are arrayed against him. Selfishness and pride will make a stand against anything that would show them to be sinful. We can not, of ourselves, conquer the evil desires and habits that struggle for the mastery. We can not overcome the mighty foe who holds us in his thrall. God alone can give us the victory. He desires us to have the mastery over ourselves, our own will and ways. But He can not work in us without our consent and co-operation. The divine Spirit works through the faculties and powers given to man. Our energies are required to co-operate with God. The Signs of the Times May 18, 1904.04

The victory is not won without much earnest prayer, without the humbling of self at every step. Our will is not to be forced into co-operation with divine agencies, but it must be voluntarily submitted. Were it possible to force upon you with a hundredfold greater intensity the influence of the Spirit of God, it would not make you a Christian, a fit subject for heaven. The stronghold of Satan-would not be broken. The will must be placed on the side of God’s will. You are not able, of yourself, to bring your purposes and desires and inclinations into submission to the will of God; but if you are “willing to be made willing,” God will accomplish the work for you, even “casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.” Then you will “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.”
The Signs of the Times May 18, 1904.05

[Richard Myers]

Amen, Glen.  It was heartwork with Christ, and so it must be with us. We need new hearts filled with His Spirit. If we have not His Spirit in the heart, then we are none of His (Romans 8:8-10).

This topic has come to the all important truth that has been especially perverted. In order to have life, we must have Christ abiding in the heart through the Holy Spirit. The lie is that we can have life when not reconciled to God, not walking in His Spirit, not perfectly obedient to all that we know to be truth. That one may have eternal life when sinning a known sin. This is what the father of all lies has brought into professing Christian churches. That one sin will not keep one out of heaven is the new gospel. Well, it is true that one sin will not be the reality of those who have lost heaven. For one sin does not the character make. But, one sin is the beginning of a life of evil. Because one has been converted is no assurance that one will remain converted. When one sins a known sin, the question is what will happen next?  To say that one will automatically repent is rather naive. Even if one has been a Christian for many years, we do not believe in once saved always saved. It is not Biblical. Then tell me about the ones who were faithful and fell away. Did it not start with just one little sin? Of course it did. Then don't teach that one little sin is not a revelation of a very serious problem. It is the revelation of separation from God. And one sin unconfessed will not be forgiven. "A perversion of right principles is a transgression of God's law. Those who in their actions pervert the grand principles of His holy law are under condemnation, for the righteousness of Christ cannot cover one unconfessed sin. The law has been lightly regarded. 'Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.' We must obey God's law, if we are loyal to Him and accepted by Him. The first step toward obedience is to examine ourselves in the light of the law, thus discovering the penalty of transgression. Those of God's people who do not purify their souls by coming into clearer and still clearer light are a reproach to His glorious cause. Too often those who should remain true and faithful to principle are obnoxious to God, because in His justice He cannot endure the sins that they cherish--sins that not only lead them into false paths but cause others also to be led astray." 17MR 241.

Yes, I know that this is a hard saying for most. The thought in the minds of many is, if this be so, then who can be saved? It is a very narrow path that God has prepared for us. Many are called, but few will choose the narrow road to heaven. Let us prayerfully study the gospel message, not from broken cisterns, but from the inspired Word that is our only safety. Ask God to reveal the truth to reveal your heart. "Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:  And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting." Psalms 139:23,24. 

Then, when we see our sins, we are to confess them and be reconciled to God. His yoke is easy and His burden is light. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9. Amen!  Believe it! It is the power of grace to transform the life!
 

[Glen]

....It was heartwork with Christ, and so it must be with us. We need new hearts filled with His Spirit. If we have not His Spirit in the heart, then we are none of His (Romans 8:8-10).

Brother, I so agree with your slip of the tongue; as well as your intended meaning!

Oxymoron of special interest:(bold print for emphasis)
....the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14

....Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. James 4:8

The Secret....
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.... James 4:8

A union with Christ by living faith [/size]is enduring; every other union must perish. Christ first chose us, paying an infinite price for our redemption; and the true believer chooses Christ as first and last and best in everything. But this union costs us something. It is a union of utter dependence, to be entered into by a proud being. All who form this union must feel their need of the atoning blood of Christ. They must have change of heart. They must submit their own will to the will of God. There will be a struggle with outward and internal obstacles. There must be a painful work of detachment, as well as a work of attachment. Pride, selfishness, vanity, worldliness—sin in all its forms—must be overcome, if we would enter into a union with Christ. The reason why many find the Christian life so deplorably hard, why they are so fickle, so variable, is, they try to attach themselves to Christ without first detaching themselves from these cherished idols. Messages to Young People 118.01

There are many who have not a correct knowledge of what constitutes a Christian character, and their lives are a reproach to the cause of truth. If they were thoroughly converted they would not bear briers and thorns, but rich clusters of the precious fruits of the Spirit,—“love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance.” The great danger is in neglecting a heartwork. Many feel well pleased with themselves; they think that a nominal observance of the divine law is sufficient, while they are unacquainted with the grace of Christ, and He is not abiding in the heart by living faith. 5T 306.02

After the union with Christ has been formed, it can be preserved only by earnest prayer and untiring effort. We must resist, we must deny, we must conquer self. Through the grace of Christ, by courage, by faith, by watchfulness, we may gain the victory.—Testimonies for the Church 5:231. (120)

WHEN does "the natural man" receive the things of the Spirit; or actually, become the "new man"?
 
Hear these words of our Saviour: “Whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock; and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.” It is the privilege of every one of us to build upon the Eternal Rock; then we shall not dishonor God, nor by our words and actions scatter away from Christ....Lift Him Up 265.02

When you have thrown yourself upon the mercy of God, and taken Him at His word, and yet the enemy comes, and suggests your faults and failings, and tells you that you are no better than before you sought the Lord, you can point to Jesus, and repeat His promises, and tell what He has done for you. Lift Him Up 265.03

....When the power of His Spirit is revealed through the servants of God, we behold divinity flashing through humanity....
Manuscript Releases Volume Thirteen [Nos. 1000-1080], Page 313.03

The impartation of the Spirit is the impartation of the life of Christ.... God's Amazing Grace 212.02

....The Word is made flesh, and dwells among us, in those who receive the holy precepts of the word of God. The Saviour of the world has left a holy, pure example for all men. It illuminates, uplifts, and brings immortality to all who obey the divine requirements.... Special Testimonies On Education 219.01

[Richard Myers]

Amen. And the failure to understand this is why so many can believe Romans seven is a converted Christian. But, when we realize that it is only through an abiding Christ, through the Holy Spirit, that we can have life, it it impossible to sin a known sin when converted. Christ does not forsake us when we sin, but neither does He excuse the sin. He stands at the door of the heart knocking wanting back in. To say that one is still in a converted state when sinning is an error that sits at the foundation of our faith. Some will teach that repentance must come quickly in order to retain salvation, but others draw no such line. Either way it is a significant error and must be corrected.  The teaching of Romans seven as a converted Christian allows one to do what he does not want to do (sin a known sin) and to not do what he ought to do. He is then expressing the Romans seven condition, he is captive to the law of sin and death. In the Christian experience, one has been set free from the law of sin and death. "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." Romans 8:2. When we take the Bible just as it reads, the wresting of the Scripture is defeated. In Romans seven the sinner is a captive to the law of sin and death. "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." Romans 7:23. Any known sin reveals this captivity. When converted, when abiding in Christ and He in us through the Holy Spirit, we are given power to keep the flesh under subjection. Thus, all of the fruits of the Spirit are seen in the life, not one is missing.

It is sad, but all of this is neglected when one teaches Romans seven is the converted Christian. The wages of sin is death. Not two, not three, but one sin. God loves us and has made provision that we might set free from the captivity of sin. It is in taking Christ into the heart that we are made partakers of His divine nature. Then the Bible promise can be fulfilled:  "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." 1 Cor. 10:13. There is only one reason why that promise fails. It is a conditional promise made to those who are partakers of God's divine nature. It is the only way to escape the law of sin which is in our members (flesh). We are born with fallen evil flesh and we shall die with it. It is only at the second coming that those who have life shall be delivered from  fallen flesh. Until then, we must die daily and be filled with the Spirit of Christ in order to have power to resist the smallest temptation and to have eternal life. To teach otherwise is to teach a false gospel that has no power and excuses sin.

We must take the Bible just as it reads and not make excuses for sin. God does not, neither does He give us eternal life when we sin a known sin.
1 John
  3:4   Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 
  3:5   And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 
  3:6   Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 
  3:7   Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 
  3:8   He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 
  3:9   Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 
  3:10   In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 

[Glen]

By far the majority of professed Christians "comfort themselves" that they are truly serving God, while they are yet unconverted; I was one of them for so many years. Their experience falls short of the highlighted experience highlighted below:

Let us glorify God that we have a Saviour to make intercession for us, to speak in our behalf before the Father, and present His merit as a propitiation for our sins. Let us glorify God that although we are defective He honors us by permitting us to advocate truth and to maintain His cause. But although we make many mistakes in that which we do, although we fail of doing it in the best way, although we neglect and leave many things undone because self is not surrendered to God, although we are creatures full of vanity and selfishness and self-esteem (and all this God despises), yet notwithstanding our many imperfections He continues to teach us, and commissions us to act a part in His cause. When tried and tempted, many have virtually cast reflections upon God, yet the Lord has not cast them off forever. He has borne long with them and has given them another trial, and provided new opportunities, and has put forth every effort to draw them nigh unto Himself, in order that they might behold Jesus and become changed into His image in spirit and character. Manuscript Releases Volume Thirteen [Nos. 1000-1080], Page 279.01

Every individual must fight the good fight of faith for himself, in order to attain to the perfection of Christian character that will fit him for the society of the saints in light.... Manuscript Releases Volume Thirteen [Nos. 1000-1080], Page 279.02

[Glen]

....when we realize that it is only through an abiding Christ, through the Holy Spirit, that we can have life, it it impossible to sin a known sin when converted.

Amen, Richard! The Godhead would have us comprehend; THEN, TO STAND through the Holy Spirit in the life we have when we have the Father and the Son (2 John 1:9). The Day hastens apace when the line of demarcation will be so broad between they who serve God and they who do not serve God, because they who do will have ceased to sin. Those who have the eyesalve (Revelation 3:18) act gleefully, taking the ultimate pleasure in the understanding that ....the eyesalve is that spiritual discernment which will enable you to see the wiles of Satan and shun them, to detect sin and abhor it, to see truth and obey it. 5T 233.02

It is then impossible to sin an unknown sin when truly converted; just like Jesus while He walked among man as a man.

[Glen]

The "once saved, always saved" idea is the counterfeit of abiding in Christ. Those who are sealed ....doth not commit sin; for his seed (Christ; the Word) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:13

....they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8:8 -does not apply to the truly converted just as it could not apply to Christ while He was on earth, because the Spirit of God rested within Him as His Spirit rests within the Believer, causing the Believer also so to walk, even as He walked. 1 John 2:6 ....even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 1 Peter 2:21, 22 These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. Revelation 14:4, 5

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 1 Peter 4:1, 2

As I let Christ dwell in me through His Spirit, Ihave crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Galatians 5:24 -So then death worketh in (the Believer), but life in (those still dead in their sins). 1 Corinthians 4:12

…Through the only begotten Son of God, life and immortality are brought to light. Through him are poured the streams of salvation. Through him comes the power by which the character may be reshaped, and the soul renewed to bear the moral image of God. When souls are converted to God, they become mediums through which a vital current may be communicated for the transformation of the character of many others. Recovered themselves from Satan's power, they know how to work. Human nature becomes united with the divine nature, Christ lives in the human soul, and acts through all the powers of body, soul, and spirit. From the converted soul, light shines forth to those who are perishing. …What vast numbers might unite in becoming active members of the army of the Lord in place of living a life of selfishness and self-pleasing, that at last proves itself to be not life but the veriest mockery. But when life is enriched with the life of Christ, when its impulses are quickened by the faith that works by love and purifies the soul, then the loftiest purposes are carried out, the noblest work is done, in the name of Christ. Through his own transforming grace, Christ is multiplied in the lives of those who are restored to his image. They co-operate with Christ in offering the divine gift of (LIFE through Christ to?) the whole human family. Advent Review and Sabbath Herald November 12, 1895.

[Ed Sutton]

Ephesians 2:15  Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Ephesians 4:24  And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Colossians 3:10  And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

In Ephesians 2:15 what was the enmity present in human nature ( mind + flesh / propensities & cultivated choices & attitudes )?  Emnity toward The Eternal Divine Law of God, AND the ordinances God built to teach how to return to Him through Christ.  What was the war (controversy), what was peace (reconciliation) removal of the emnity.

 “  The fall of our first parents broke the golden chain of implicit obedience of the human will to the divine. Obedience has no longer been deemed an absolute necessity. The human agents follow their own imaginations which the Lord said of the inhabitants of the old world were evil and that continually. The Lord Jesus declares, "I have kept my Father's commandments." How? As a man. Lo, I come to do Thy will, O God. To the accusations of the Jews He stood forth in His pure, virtuous, holy character and challenged them, "Which of you convinceth me of sin?"--Manuscript 1, 1892.  {RC 56.5} 

“   The Lord God came down to our world clothed with the habiliments of humanity, that he might work out in his own life the mysterious controversy between Christ and Satan. He discomfited the powers of darkness. All this history is saying to man, I, your substitute and surety, have taken your nature upon me, showing you that every son and daughter of Adam is privileged to become a partaker of the divine nature, and through Christ Jesus lay hold upon immortality. Those who are candidates for this great blessing should in everything act in a manner to represent the advantages of their association with the Lord through his revealed truth and through the sanctification of his Holy Spirit. This will enlarge the mind of the human agent, fasten it upon sacred things, set it to receive truth, to comprehend truth, which will lead to the working out of truth through the sanctification of heart, soul, and character.  {SpTEd 220.1} 


     We can stand down here, in 1892, and with the aftersight we are privileged to have, we can see what it means to disobey God's commandments. Adam yielded to temptation and as we have the matter of sin and its consequences laid so distinctly before us, we can read from cause to effect and see the greatness of the act is not that which constitutes sin; but the disobedience of God's expressed will, which is a virtual denial of God, refusing the laws of His government. The happiness of man is in his obedience to the laws of God. In his obedience to God's law he is surrounded as with a hedge and kept from the evil. No man can be happy and depart from God's specified requirements, and set up a standard of his own which he decides he can safely follow. Then there would be a variety of standards to suit the different minds, and the government taken out of the Lord's hands and human beings grasp the reins of government. The law of self is erected, the will of man is made supreme, and when the high and holy will of God is presented to be obeyed, respected, and honored the human will wants its own way to do its own promptings, and there is a controversy between the human agent and the divine.   {6MR 338.1} 

This is what the enmity was from the fallen human side obtained through disobedient Adam, that Christ conquered in taking the nature of the seed of Abraham into Himself.  God has no controversy with holiness, fallen mankind has not controversy with sin, unholiness, disobedience, rule of self instead of ruled by God, but mankind was created holy and content to be ruled by God.  Adam replaced God's image with Satan's image by entering Satan's rule over him through obeying Satan and disobeying God, first with his mind / heart then physically; it changed Adam completely, Jesus Christ undertook to rebuild humanity and selected the arena of taking the nature of Abraham's seed ( descendents) into His Divine nature and now as a part of His identity, conquer it so as to have obtained human conversion & sanctification to extend to whomsoever would listen to Him and follow Him.  Kaving killed within human nature Satan's attitude of self rule, and replaced it with Divine Love that surrenders it's self from the heart - saying "not MY Will but THINE be done"  that is conversion that extended out with out stopping ='s sanctification.  Sanctification is conversion that endures to run the distance, what conversion started at the mere beginning of the race.  More than ascent to the 28 + understanding prophecies, but rather utterly dying to self rule, and putting off old Adam's dead life, and putting on Christ the NEW Man, the replacement for dead Adam, eating and drinking what constitutes Christ's life and spiritual food offered to feed that new spiritual life, while still with the same body and brain, but with a converted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going the distance being sanctified ( brought into harmony mind. )

[Glen]

Sanctification is conversion that endures to run the distance, what conversion started at the mere beginning of the race.

Amen, Brother Ed; I like the way you put it. So; we receive the prize (Christ the Word) at the beginning of our race, and have the privilege of His indwelling for endurance to run the race to the end! May we be found faithful (1 Corinthians 4:2), letting the word of Christ dwell in us richly.... Colossians 3:16

A union with Christ by living faith is enduring; every other union must perish. ....The reason why many find the Christian life so deplorably hard, why they are so fickle, so variable, is, they try to attach themselves to Christ without first detaching themselves from these cherished idols. Messages to Young People 118.01

....When you find your work hard, when you complain of difficulties and trials, when you say that you have no strength to withstand temptation, that you cannot overcome impatience, and that the Christian life is uphill work, be sure that you are not bearing the yoke of Christ; you are bearing the yoke of another master.34The Signs of the Times, July 22, 1889

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:13

....So run, that ye may obtain. 1 Corinthians 9:24

So; which comes first?
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. While, at first glance, it may appear that the Believer runs to win the prize, or keeps the commandments of God to abide in His love, we need to take a closer look!

Eternal Life= constant abiding presence of the Spirit of Christ within the soul of the Believer (wedlock: Bride with the groom, Christ.)

....this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments.... 1 John 5:3

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 1 John 4:9

If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. John 9:23

....this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 1 John 5:11

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Romans 6:5, 6

So then death worketh in us, but life in you. 2 Corinthians 4:12

—The souls of those whom we desire to save are like the representation which Ezekiel saw in vision,—a valley of dry bones. They are dead in trespasses and sins, but God would have us deal with them as though they were living. Were the question put to us, “Son of man, can these bones live?” our answer would be only the confession of ignorance, “O Lord, Thou knowest.” To all appearance there is nothing to lead us to hope for their restoration. Yet nevertheless the word of the prophecy must be spoken even to those who are like the dry bones in the valley. We are in no wise to be deterred from fulfilling our commission by the listlessness, the dullness, the lack of spiritual perception, in those upon whom the Word of God is brought to bear. We are to preach the word of life to those whom we may judge to be as hopeless subjects as though they were in their graves.
S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 4, Page 1165.03

Though they may seem unwilling to hear or to receive the light of truth, without questioning or wavering we are to do our part. We are to repeat to them the message. “Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.” S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 4, Page 1165.04

It is not the human agent that is to inspire with life. The Lord God of Israel will do that part, quickening the lifeless spiritual nature into activity. The breath of the Lord of hosts must enter into the lifeless bodies. In the judgment, when all secrets are laid bare, it will be known that the voice of God spoke through the human agent, and aroused the torpid conscience, and stirred the lifeless faculties, and moved sinners to repentance and contrition, and forsaking of sins. It will then be clearly seen that through the human agent faith in Jesus Christ was imparted to the soul, and spiritual life from heaven was breathed upon one who was dead in trespasses and sins, and he was quickened with spiritual life. S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 4, Page 1165.05

We may SO run that we may win!
....we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:10, 11

The REST, for each of us, may begin To Day and extend from now throughout Eternity:
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.....all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Hebrews 4:9-13

....whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 1 John 5:18

The pleasing fable that all there is to do is to believe, has destroyed thousands and tens of thousands, because many have called that faith which is not faith, but simply a dogma. Man is an intelligent, accountable being; he is not to be carried as a passive burden by the Lord, but is to work in harmony with Christ. Man is to take up his appointed work in striving for glory, honor, and immortality. God calls upon men for the use of every talent he has lent them, the exercise of every power he has given; for man can never be saved in disobedience and indolence. Christ wrestled in earnest prayer; he offered up his supplications to the Father with strong crying and tears in behalf of those for whose salvation he had left heaven, and had come to this earth. Then how proper, yea, how essential that men should pray and not faint! How important that they should be instant in prayer, petitioning for the help that can come only from Christ our Lord! If you will find voice and time to pray, God will find time and voice to answer.
The Review and Herald April 1, 1890.06

[Glen]

It is not the human agent (of himself, by himself) that is to inspire with life. The Lord God of Israel will do that part, quickening the lifeless spiritual nature into activity. The breath of the Lord of hosts must enter into the lifeless bodies. In the judgment, when all secrets are laid bare, it will be known that  the voice of God spoke THROUGH the human agent, and aroused the torpid conscience, and stirred the lifeless faculties, and moved sinners to repentance and contrition, and forsaking of sins. It will then be clearly seen that THROUGH the human agent faith in Jesus Christ was imparted to the soul, and spiritual life from heaven was breathed upon one who was dead in trespasses and sins, and he was quickened with spiritual life. [/u]S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 4, Page 1165.05

....Those whose hearts are filled with spiritual life will not need to be urged to reveal this life. The divine life will flow forth from them in rich currents of grace. As they pray, and as they speak, God is glorified. Reflecting Christ, p. 197.05

....He who drinks of the living water becomes a fountain of life.[/u] The receiver becomes a giver. The grace of Christ in the soul is like a spring in the desert, welling up to refresh all, and making those who are ready to perish eager to drink of the water of life. —The Desire of Ages, 195

From age to age the Lord has been seeking to awaken in the souls of men a sense of their divine brotherhood. Be co-workers with Him. While distrust and alienation are pervading the world, Christ’s disciples are to reveal the spirit that reigns in heaven. Speak as He would speak, act as He would act. Constantly reveal the sweetness of His character.  Reveal that wealth of love which underlies all His teachings and all His dealings with men. The humblest workers, in co-operation with Christ, may touch chords whose vibrations shall ring to the ends of the earth and make melody throughout eternal ages. The Ministry of Healing, p. 159.04

Heavenly intelligences are waiting to co-operate with human instrumentalities, that they may reveal to the world what human beings may become, and what, through union with the Divine, may be accomplished for the saving of souls that are ready to perish. There is no limit to the usefulness of one who, putting self aside, makes room for the working of the Holy Spirit upon his heart and lives a life wholly consecrated to God. All who consecrate body, soul, and spirit to His service will be constantly receiving a new endowment of physical, mental, and spiritual power. The inexhaustible supplies of heaven are at their command. Christ gives them the breath of His own Spirit, the life of His own life. The Holy Spirit puts forth its highest energies to work in mind and heart. Through the grace given us we may achieve victories that because of our own erroneous and preconceived opinions, our defects of character, our smallness of faith, have seemed impossible. The Ministry of Healing 159.04

I submit to you that the the above quote from The Ministry of Healing 159.04; especially the last sentence, is a good summation of Romans 7 and 8.

....Every individual disciple is Heaven’s appointed channel for the revelation of God to man. Angels of glory wait to communicate through you heaven’s light and power to souls that are ready to perish. Shall the human agent fail of accomplishing his appointed work? O, then to that degree is the world robbed of the promised influence of the Holy Spirit.
ST May 18, 1904, par. 6

....we do well that we ....take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in our hearts.... 21 ....moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 1:19, 21

[Richard Myers]

Amen, Glen.

Here is a thought right to the point where all me see that one must have Christ in the heart to have life.

Nicodemus playing a game with Christ said "How can a man be born when he is old?" Like many others when cutting truth is brought home to the conscience, he revealed the fact that the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God. There is in him nothing that responds to spiritual things; for spiritual things are spiritually discerned. We are either converted or we are not. We are either filled with the Holy Spirit or we are not. There is no serving two masters. Good fruit will not be seen on a bad tree. Period. Bad fruit will not come off of a good tree. Sin will not be seen in the converted Christian.

Jesus did not meet argument with argument. Raising His hand with solemn, quiet dignity, He pressed the truth home with greater assurance, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." Nicodemus knew that Christ here referred to water baptism and the renewing of the heart by the Spirit of God. He was convinced that he was in the presence of the One whom John the Baptist had foretold.

Jesus continued: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." By nature the heart is evil, and "who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one." Job 14:4. No human invention can find a remedy for the sinning soul. "The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." "Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies." Romans 8:7; Matthew 15:19. The fountain of the heart must be purified before the streams can become pure. He who is trying to reach heaven by his own works in keeping the law is attempting an impossibility. There is no safety for one who has merely a legal religion, a form of godliness. The Christian's life is not a modification or improvement of the old, but a transformation of nature. There is a death to self and sin, and a new life altogether. This change can be brought about only by the effectual working of the Holy Spirit in the heart. 

One cannot be converted and possess eternal life when one has a carnal heart. When a man murders someone it makes no difference how much He loved and served God before he killed someone. When he murders, he is not converted and does not have life.

[Glen]

One cannot be converted and possess eternal life when one has a carnal heart. When a man murders someone it makes no difference how much He loved and served God before he killed someone. When he murders, he is not converted and does not have life.

A union with Christ by living faith is enduring....to be entered into by a proud being.....Messages to Young People 118.01

....God.... 21 ....hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:20, 21

We can never have a clear appreciation of the value of our Redeemer, until, by an eye of faith, we see him taking upon himself the nature of man, the capacity to suffer, and then reaching the very depths of human wretchedness, that by his divine power he might save even the vilest sinner. ST March 17, 1887, par. 10

Thank God he is willing to save the most wretched, vile sinner! Even the one who, like the Laodicean, has a lifetime been of the mind that:
....We fall into sin again and again, and think it must always be so. We cling to our infirmities as if they were something to be proud of.

Christ tells us that we must set our face as a flint if we would overcome. He has borne our sins in His own body on the tree; and through the power He has given us, we may resist the world, the flesh, and the devil. Then let us not talk of our weakness and inefficiency, but of Christ and His strength. When we talk of Satan's strength, the enemy fastens his power more firmly upon us. When we talk of the power of the Mighty One, the enemy is driven back. As we draw near to God, He draws near to us. God's Amazing Grace 262.02

Every man, woman, and child that is not under the control of the Spirit of God is under the influence of Satan's sorcery, and by his words and example he will lead others away from the path of truth. When the transforming grace of Christ is upon the heart, a righteous indignation will take possession of the soul because the sinner has so long neglected the great salvation that God has provided for him. He will then surrender himself, body, soul, and spirit, to God and will withdraw from companionship with Satan, through the grace given him of God. He will, like the Ephesians, denounce sorcery, and will cut the last thread that binds him to Satan. He will leave the banner of the prince of darkness, and will come under the bloodstained banner of Prince Emmanuel… The Youth's Instructor, November 16, 1883: Messages to Young People 278.02

It isn't over until it's over:
In the parable of the virgins, five were found wise, and five foolish. Can it be possible that half of us will be found without the oil of grace in our lamps? Shall we come to the marriage feast too late? We have slept too long; shall we sleep on, and be lost at last? Are there those here who have been sinning and repenting, sinning and repenting, and will they continue to do so till Christ shall come? May God help us that we may be truly united to Christ, the living vine, and bear fruit to the glory of God! Many feel rich, and regard themselves as in need of nothing; but may such confess their sins, and let the Spirit of God into their hearts. O, let us fear to go on in our evil, unrepenting state, lest we become like Judas, and finally betray our blessed Lord! Advent Review and Sabbath Herald 04-21-91.08

Ellen White is here pleading with many who are, in effect, in danger of being among the 5 foolish virgins, pleading with them to, as it were to consider their ways, and be wise.... Proverbs 6:6 We must remember that God declared to the mankind before the Flood that My spirit shall not always strive with man.... Genesis 6:3 -Taking especial note that: ....as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:37

Each of us must come to understand that to sin knowingly is to presume that God's gift of Repentance will still be available to us after we sin that specific known sin.

We are to surrender our hearts to God, that He may renew and sanctify us, and fit us for His heavenly court. We are not to wait for some special time, but today we are to give ourselves to Him, refusing to be the servants of sin. Do (I) imagine (I) can leave off sin a little at a time? Oh, (I must) leave the accursed thing at once!
Selected Messages Book 1 327.01

Each moment the true Believer will realize, as the Abraham and Sarah finally did, that so far as their inclination or ability to bring forth the promised seed, they were as good as dead.... Hebrews 11:8-12

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin....reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:6, 11

[Richard Myers]

For those just beginning to read in this topic, it may seem to be off topic, but it is not. The great deception in the Christian Church is that one may sin and still retain salvation.  One of the main theological teachings used to support this heretical doctrine is that Romans seven is the experience of a converted Christian.

  7:15   For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 
  7:16   If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good. 
  7:17   Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 
  7:18   For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not. 
  7:19   For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 
  7:20   Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 
  7:21   I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 
  7:22   For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 
  7:23   But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 
  7:24   O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 

To many this is their experience after baptism. They have never found a way to walk in the Spirit, but rather are always walking in the flesh. So, they find  this teaching to agree with what they have both experienced and been taught in their church.

When Paul wrote these two chapters, seven and eight, it was after he was converted. To say this was his experience after his conversion would be to set aside the rest of his teachings and the teachings of Christ and the rest of Scripture. Paul is sharing with us his experience as a Pharisee who thought he was alive before the law brought conviction to his heart. After he had seen that he was guilty, he attempted to keep the law in his own strength. This is what Romans seven is teaching. So many today, when convicted of sin, try to keep the law, but fail because they have not made a full surrender to Jesus and have no power to keep the law. Satan steps into the picture and through false teachers tells the convicted sinner that he is ok. That one may sin and still retain salvation. There are many various teaching that expound on this subject in one way or another. Some teach that once one is saved, he is always saved, no matter how much he sins. This is only one of the heretical variations that are accepted as gospel truth.

Paul states the truth clearly in Roman eight beginning with verses one and two:  "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."  So, we got into this deception when some were adamant about Romans seven being the converted Christian. This led to the statements that one may sin a known sin and retain justification, salvation. It cannot be. The Biblical teaching has clearly been presented in this thread for over ten years. But, many have not read through the topic, so they have not seen what has been written. So, we have been presenting the gospel message that precludes one being saved while sinning a known sin.

While reading one of may favorite books this evening, I read this: "Many take it for granted that they are Christians, simply because they subscribe to certain theological tenets. But they have not brought the truth into practical life. They have not believed and loved it, therefore they have not received the power and grace that come through sanctification of the truth. Men may profess faith in the truth; but if it does not make them sincere, kind, patient, forbearing, heavenly-minded, it is a curse to its possessors, and through their influence it is a curse to the world. 

The righteousness which Christ taught is conformity of heart and life to the revealed will of God. Sinful men can become righteous only as they have faith in God and maintain a vital connection with Him. Then true godliness will elevate the thoughts and ennoble the life. Then the external forms of religion accord with the Christian's internal purity. Then the ceremonies required in the service of God are not meaningless rites, like those of the hypocritical Pharisees. 

Jesus takes up the commandments separately, and explains the depth and breadth of their requirement. Instead of removing one jot of their force, He shows how far-reaching their principles are, and exposes the fatal mistake of the Jews in their outward show of obedience. He declares that by the evil thought or the lustful look the law of God is transgressed. One who becomes a party to the least injustice is breaking the law and degrading his own moral nature. Murder first exists in the mind. He who gives hatred a place in his heart is setting his feet in the path of the murderer, and his offerings are abhorrent to God." DA 310.

There are many excuses made for sin, but none are correct. Sin reveals a real separation between God and man. We only have salvation when we are filled with the Spirit of Christ. I think we have presented enough, that all who wish to know, may understand that the gospel has power. That power is seen in the life of the converted Christian. He walks in the Spirit, not in the flesh.

[Richard Myers]

Having argued that Romans seven is the experience of the sinner who does not have a saving relationship with Jesus, let us go on to Romans eight and see what Paul has to say about the true convert. He actually begins with verse 7:25.  Without commentary, let's just read some of the verses. If one can overcome the weeds that have been planted in the mind, the verses do not need commentary.

Romans
 7:25   I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. 
 
Chapter 8

  8:1   There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 
  8:2   For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 
  8:3   For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 
  8:4   That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 
  8:5   For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Compare these verses with these from Romans seven:

  7:23   But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 
  7:24   O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 

[Mimi]

Amen! I am so happy to move into Chapter 8! 

• When there was frustration in ch 7 (v.24), there is peace in ch 8 (v.6).

Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

• In ch 7 there is spiritual death (v.10), but in ch 8 there is life (v.6).

Rom 7:10  And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

• In ch 7 there is defeat (v.15), but in ch 8 there is victory (v.13)

Rom 7:15  For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 8:13  For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

• In ch 7 he is a slave to sin (v.14), but in ch 8 he is free from sin (v.2)

Rom 7:14  For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

• In chapter 7 he acts against the law of God (v.22.23) but in ch 8 he can through the Spirit obey Gods law (v.4)

Rom 7:22  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 8:4  That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

• In ch 7 he is a "wretched man", but in ch 8 he is a "child of God" (v.14)

Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 8:14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

• In ch 7 he is driven by his flesh (v.23), but in ch 8 he is driven by the Spirit (v.14)

Rom 7:23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 8:14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

[Peter L]

Romans 7 is referring to a person who has already given their life to God.
Romans 7:22
(22)  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Someone who has not given their life to God does not delight after the Law of God.
Romans 8:6-7
(6)  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
(7)  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.