Vitamin B-12

[Clive Nevell]

"Recent findings suggest that laboratory testing for plasma homocysteine levels can improve the assessment of risk. It may be particularly useful in patients with a personal or family history of cardiovascular disease, but in whom the well-established risk factors (smoking, high blood cholesterol, high blood pressure) do not exist."

"Although evidence for the benefit of lowering homocysteine levels is lacking, patients at high risk should be strongly advised to be sure to get enough folic acid and vitamins B6 and B12 in their diet. Foods high in folic acid include green, leafy vegetables and grain products fortified with folic acid. But this is just one risk factor. A physician taking any type of nutritional approach to reducing risk should consider a person's overall risk factor profile and total diet."

The above quote was given to us by our health dept. from Church. They suggested that it could be the reason why there are seemimglu healthy vegetarians who then have heart attacks. As it is that high homocysteines go along with low B12.

[Curt]

Clive, my Doctor was very thorough in her test and i have a six page report to prove it. I have it scanned to my PC at home so cannot access it now (at work). I will check this as well as the Homocycteine levels and get ack to you on which reference relative to your numbers.

Later

[Clive Nevell]

It would be interesting to see if we are talking about the same numbers.

I know American  cholesterol numbers are totally different to what we use in Australia and as yet I have not seen a conversion chart for them. They tell us here that the  cholesterol should be below 5, with an aim to even get it below 4.

In America it is in the 100's so am not sure where they stand with each other.

Homocysteine level here is a max of 16 and ideal should not be over 11. B12 is  low  at 220 and should be around 250 to 260 at least.

Clive

[Richard Myers]

150 is a good cholestrol level in the U.S. The average I think is around 200. And of course that is not good.

[Clive Nevell]

Once a person gets as high as 6 here they will put them on medication.

On 3ABN I seen a talk which mentioned a study done in China where they found that a persons cholestral was only 3 and at that level there were far less heart attacks.

They said on 3ABN that we should be aiming for a lot lower level than what we have now.

Clive

[Curt]

Ok Clive, here are the ranges :
Serum B-12
    SI Units            77  (148 - 738 Pmol/L)
    Conventional Units  104 (200 - 1000 pg/mL)

Homocysteine, I do not have the test results or ranges for this.

I need to find a doctor in my new location and get another B-12 followup test and will update you on it.

[colporteur]

I read an article a few years ago where it was believed that we re cycle B12 for up to 10 years. If indeed we recycle this then 
this would cut down considerably on the amount we need for daily intake. I have been vegan for 11 years and have never taking any supplements. I have been checked twice and found not to be lacking. I do use some yeast flakes and soy milk not for the B12 but just for cheese and cereal. I eat a very large leafy salad about 5 days a week.

[Richard Myers]

My family has not supplemented B-12. One of our daughters has been a strict vegetarian from birth. I have been a strict vegetarian for almost 25 years. No signs of a B-12 deficiency. God knew what He was doing when He told us in the beginning what our diet ought to be.

[Lewis]

My family has not supplemented B-12. One of our daughters has been a strict vegetarian from birth. I have been a strict vegetarian for almost 25 years. No signs of a B-12 deficiency. God knew what He was doing when He told us in the beginning what our diet ought to be.

Amen!

[Steva1787]

You can't just look at the amount of B-12 that you take, you also have to consider the other part that actually lets you ABSORB the B-12. That thing is called Intrinsic Factor. So if you are taking B-12 and still not getting good results on your blood work, then you need to check out your Intrinsic Factor levels. Brewer's Yeast and Nutritional Yeast are excellent sources of B vitamins in a natural form that is easy for your body to absorb. If that doesn't work, then eat some dirt from your backyard- surely there are lots of B-vitamins there

[Mimi]

    Great idea!

[Ed Sutton]

Hum,

Every time I ate dirt as a kid I wound up having to take worm pills.   

The B-12 comes from the bacteria in the dirt, but as was said the intrinsic factor determines if B-12 and all other food nutrients gets absorbed by the GI tract.  Intrinsic factor is a genetic issue, some can digest and absorb most any food, others very little and absorb even less.

A good physical with testing for these things usually does not happen without 2 things - 1. symptoms of damage, and 2. health insurance to afford the tests and remedies if sick.

(sublingual = dissolved and absorbed into the bloodstream from under the tongue without swallowing-as once swallowed the faulty GI tract wastes but does not absorb), 

Sublingual vitamins or injected or IV vitamins then become the standard  treatment, if intrinsic factor is lacking.

[colporteur]

In the latest issue of Adventist World on page 19 under the title of "Vitamin B 12 Are You Getting Enough"  our renound doctors make this comment " When we debate the superiority of one vegetarian diet over another, we are entering territory of opinion rather than of hard facts. Perhaps all argument  will cease when we have firm data. We are not there yet."     is there an icon for gag ?

1. We have firm data now and we have counsel from heaven on this. The day will never come that the firm data, hard facts, and the Word of God is not challenged by the culture, tradition, and experts of the day.  This is not a matter of opinion accept of those who value their own opinions above the Testimony of Jesus.

2. Firm data, so called, statistics, hard facts, and science more often than not will have a bias and  skewed results. There are hard facts and firm data out there but there is much counterfeit data funded by those who have something to gain or lose by the findings. There will always be conflict in the data because it depends on who compiles it and how they compile it as well as where they get it.

[Richard Myers]

There is no arguing with Scripture. The best diet for man is given in Genesis. Yes, we have changed. When man started eating animals, life expectancy dropped from 900 years to 120.  It does not take a genius to put one plus one together. Faith in the Bible is what is required. And, it must overcome man's love of human wisdom over that of Scripture.

The evidence is past questioning in regards to the dangers of eating animal products. Science has caught up with inspiration. We were told over a hundred years ago that "soon" we would have to cease eating animal products due to the increase in disease in the animals. Soon came long ago. Most dairy is infected with Leukemia Virus. Sadly, few understand that a virus can cause cancer and that the leading disease that kills children under age 15 is cancer. The leading cancer killer of these young children is Leukemia. How many think that the Leukemia just happens and it is not caused? Blind ignorance.  A study at UC Berkeley begun in 2000 gives evidence that even breast cancer may be caused by the Leukemia in dairy products. In almost half of the original women with breast cancer, they found evidence of the Bovine Leukemia Virus in their breast tissue.

Seventh-day Adventists above all people ought to understand that eating animal products increases one's risk of serious disease.

[Larry Lyons]

"Is there an icon for gag?"
Amen Cp! It is so sad that the most prominent "official" spokesmen for Adventist views on health seem so far behind and are so wedded to what sounds like the party line of the AMA, the FDA and the CDC that in some cases they actually do more harm than good. Promoting vaccinations on TV is just one example. The statement you quoted is another example. His message seems to be that a 100% plant based diet is no better than a diet using eggs and milk. I am pretty sure Dr. Neil Nedley and many other faithful, well informed Adventist physicians, (not to mention the many non-Adventist ones) would say otherwise. Over 100 years ago Ellen White wrote that because of increasing disease in animals it would soon be necessary to give up all animal products from our diets. If the time is not now, how much worse does it have to get?

[Curt]

WebMd, Written by WebMD Editorial Contributors, Reviewed by Jabeen Begum, MD on November 22, 2022
https://www.webmd.com/diet/marmite-is-it-good-for-you


Marmite is the quintessential “love it or hate it” food. It’s a thick paste made from the yeast byproduct left over from beer brewing. Even connoisseurs of the substance find its flavor difficult to describe. Terms like savory, bready, salty, and soy sauce-like are all commonly used.

Marmite was discovered by accident when a German scientist realized that leftover brewer’s yeast could be concentrated and eaten. Despite its German origins, Marmite quickly became popular in English-speaking countries, such as the United Kingdom, New Zealand, and Australia. The first Marmite plant was established in 1902 in Burton on Trent in The United Kingdom. In the nearly 120 years since the food was invented, it’s become a veritable cultural icon in Britain.

Marmite is also a good source of several vitamins and minerals, including:

• Riboflavin
  Niacin
  Folate
  Vitamin B6
  Vitamin B12
  Potassium
  Magnesium

[Curt]

Inflammation and Vitamin B12: Unraveling the Hidden Connection

By SOCIETY OF CHEMICAL INDUSTRY NOVEMBER 1, 2023

A recent study highlights a strong inverse relationship between vitamin B12 levels and inflammation markers, with significant health implications. the research examined this link in both human and mouse subjects, noting that higher B12 levels correspond to lower levels of inflammatory markers like IL-6 and CRP. The study, which used data from the PREDIMED trial, suggests B12’s potential role in understanding and managing diseases related to chronic inflammation. The findings in aged mice also present an intriguing perspective, as mice do not exhibit B12 deficiency with age. .......

A new study identified a compelling link between vitamin B12 deficiency and chronic inflammation, which is linked to several health problems including cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and neurodegenerative disorders. The research, which was published in the Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, explored how varying levels of B12 in the bloodstream affect key inflammatory markers in humans and mice.

Further research is planned to explore the relationship in various high-inflammation conditions and consider B12 supplementation as a therapeutic strategy.

[rahab]

Important to take just in case we don’t have the right bacteria in our bodies.

What form of B12 is best absorbed or does it matter?

[Curt]

Important to take just in case we don’t have the right bacteria in our bodies.

What form of B12 is best absorbed or does it matter?

A common question. Short story first, details will follow....

Methylcobalamin is the more natural and easily absorbed form of the cobalamins. B12 supplements are primarily produced by bacteria, from bacteria cultures not from animal products. For vegetarians and vegans please check the bottles as some supplement capsules are made from gelatin. Now, what does that tell you about a natural source for B12. 

Lets see what the research says:

Dec 22, 2022, Vitamin B12 - Health Professional Fact Sheet, National Institutes of Health (.gov)
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/

Vitamin B12 contains the mineral Cobalt and the various forms carry the general category of cobalamins. The most common form of vitamin B12 in dietary supplements is cyanocobalamin. Other forms of vitamin B12 in supplements are adenosylcobalamin, methylcobalamin, and hydroxycobalamin [22]. No evidence indicates that absorption rates of vitamin B12 in supplements vary by form of the vitamin.

The literature does a good job at describing how B12 is released and absorbed. The process of releasing Vitamin B12 from food starts with saliva in the mouth, hydrochloric acid in the stomach and digestive enzymes in the duodenum. The "free" Vitamin B12 then combines with intrinsic factor (protein secreted by the stomach). It is said that vegetarians have low intrinsic factor but yet the paper shows the sources of B12 as mostly external sources of meat. 

 Table 1: Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDAs) for Vitamin B12 [1]
Age                          Male     Female        Pregnancy     Lactation
Birth to 6 months*    0.4 mcg     0.4 mcg       
7–12 months*           0.5 mcg     0.5 mcg       
1–3 years                 0.9 mcg     0.9 mcg       
4–8 years                 1.2 mcg     1.2 mcg       
9–13 years               1.8 mcg     1.8 mcg       
14–18 years             2.4 mcg     2.4 mcg       2.6 mcg        2.8 mcg
19+ years                2.4 mcg     2.4 mcg      2.6 mcg        2.8 mcg

Now look at the table showing the amount per serving with percent DV (Daily Volume).

Food                                                    Micrograms
                                                                per serving    PercentDV*
Beef liver, cooked, pan fried, 3 ounces             70.7                2,944
Clams (without shells), cooked, 3 ounces         17                     708
Nutritional yeast, fortified, from several
    brands (check label), about ¼ cup              8.3 to 24            346 to 1,000
Salmon, Atlantic, cooked, 3 ounces                 2.6                    108
Tuna, light, canned in water, 3 ounces             2.5                    104
Beef, ground, 85% lean meat/15% fat,
       pan browned, 3 ounces                       2.4                    100
Milk, 2% milk fat, 1 cup                                 1.3                     54
Yogurt, plain, fat free, 6-ounce container    1.0                     43
Breakfast cereals, fortified with 25%
    of the DV for vitamin B12, 1 serving           0.6                     25
Cheese, cheddar, 1½ ounces                          0.5                     19
Egg, whole, cooked, 1 large                           0.5                     19
Turkey, breast meat, roasted, 3 ounces           0.3                     14
Tempeh, 1/2 cup                                           0.1                       3

* Adequate Intake (AI)

The food sources are primarily shown as various meats. However, Brewers Yeast has a very high amount of B12 and would be a recommended supplement. You should note that the daily requirement for B12 is in the range of "micro-grams" or millionth of a gram. So though the vegetable sources are few and show small amounts the amounts needed are also small. Vegetable sources also have higher bioavailability (easier to digest, rate of absorption).

[rahab]

Thank you