Author Topic: 2015 General Conference vote on Women's Ordination (Read 55710 times)

colporteur · « **Reply #20 on:** June 24, 2015, 05:36:34 PM »

Quote from: Richard Myers on June 24, 2015, 04:08:58 PM

There is little spiritual discernment when the issue is not understood. Not the least of which is a division that has rejected the authority of the General Conference in Session. How could your friend not understand the concern about rebellion?

I agree. I believe the Bible is a stronger argument though than GC in session. GC in session voted to accept divorce because of abandonment. Of course it was kind of snuck in at the end when many of the delegates from other nations abandoned their posts to get home early. Even so it was voted while in session. I don't think it will but if the vote were to go the wrong way others would say that we have rejected the authority of the GC. While the GC in session is the highest visible authority in the church it is not infallible and there was at least one time in the past when the GC was no longer the voice of God. Pro WO people will likely claim that to be the case should the vote go against them. However, .... the Bible IS the voice of God and that is the bottom line. Should the vote go against them we have more leverage as we can state that the GC in session , the Bible, and the precedence of Jesus Himself goes against WO. In other words, we have all the leverage that can be had. They have nothing to lean on than feelings and a culture that is wicked. We have observed this in practice in the churches of Babylon and there is no good fruit from it.

What is vital is to understand that at the core of all of this is the authority of the Bible verses the authority of man made culture. It is possible for a GC to temporarily go wrong. That cannot be said of the Bible. The reason that this subject (WO) is so important is because it does not stop there. If it did the subject would not be quite as crucial. When a ship loses its compass and the lights do out in the night and the winds are blowing it will not just bump one rock. It will keep crashing against the rocks because it can no longer see where to go.
Those who are bull headed about this will not stop with WO. They will not stop with LGBT acceptance. They will not even stop by going along with the NSL when it comes out. They will turn against God's church and work for the beast.

I think there are still quite a few people in the church that are not really carefully examining all the aspects of this subject. They are short sighted. " Men, women, ordination, is it really that big a deal ? Don't we have a lot bigger concerns than that?" Well, we do have concerns all over the body. However, this a fast growing cancer that is about to get into the lymph nodes and spread all over the body. It cannot just be let go as though it will have no impact. It is not simply a matter of one sex or the other. It is a matter of deception, of blindness, of rebellion, of placing the Word of God in second place to man made idea. The problem let go morphs into a whole gamut of further breakdowns and digressions. Once the Bible is kicked to the curb we are headed for the French revolution again.

John Erickson · « **Reply #21 on:** July 07, 2015, 05:52:54 AM »

Here is an interesting comment by Martin Weber that I found in the comments section of an Advindicate article written by Don Mackintosh called, "Accusing the Brethren."

As one who has had interacted pleasantly with both Don and Nick the past couple of days, I am surprised and disappointed at the spirit of accusation that crept into Don's critique (which I found to be coherent, although I'm of a different persuasion on this topic). Nick is respectful and loyal to church leadership on all levels, and he does not deserve being branded otherwise. I appeal for everyone on this site to treat Nick as an esteemed brother. If he has spoken evil, bear witness to it without castigating his character. I have no doubt that Wednesday will bring a crushing defeat to those of us who favor regional discretion regarding women's ordination, so those who disagree with us (especially with someone like Nick) can afford to be gracious in anticipation of your intended outcome. (emphasis mine).

Richard Myers · « **Reply #22 on:** July 07, 2015, 08:37:35 AM »

Thanks for sharing, John. We certainly hope Martin is accurate in his prophecy. In regards to his concern with Don't spirit, way want to consider the attitude of Jesus on certain occasions. John the Baptist also found it necessary to be very pointed with some who rejected God's truth and His Spirit. it is not always true that those in rebellion do not turn and walk in the light.In closing my remarks, John, Paul tells us that there are some matters more important than others. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:6-9 I would assume that at times it is necessary to tell someone they have preached a wrong gospel and that they are accursed....even if they are a conference ordained minister....especially if they are a conference ordained minster. Yes, it is contrary to the culture of "Adventism", but we are to be faithful Seventh-day Adventists.

John Erickson · « **Reply #23 on:** July 07, 2015, 06:08:46 PM »

Spectrum magazine is already spinning what a "no" result would mean. They say it wouldnt change a thing. I think they know that a no vote is inevitable and they are scrambling to spin it so that the rebellion will be justified in continuing. I hope we know Ted Wilson and the GC better than that. A no vote should bring consequences to leaders that continue in rebellion as well as their unions or conferences. current women ministers also should be stripped of their pastor/minister ordination and given equal paying but non pastorally ordained positions elsewhere.

thankfully, spectrum magazine is in the tiny minority. they can claim a no vote will not change things, but I think we know better than that based on Ted Wilson's reaction to the constituency meeting to change the bylaws, "dire consequences," etc. Essentially spectrum is saying that a yes vote would allow them to do what they want regarding ordination, but a no vote would not prohibit anyone from doing what they want as they are already on this question. it is a last desperate move to maintain the so-called legitimacy of their rebellion.

it will be extremely interesting to see proposed amendments by both sides.

Wally · « **Reply #24 on:** July 08, 2015, 04:14:49 AM »

Well, they've already said that the 2 previous "no" votes meant nothing, so this is no surprise. They are living in denial. But if the vote is "no" there must be consequences for the rebellious unions, or things will get even worse. Spiritual anarchy is not a pleasant thought.

Richard Myers · « **Reply #25 on:** July 08, 2015, 07:57:10 AM »

Today's business meeting at the 60th General Conference Session has just begun. Elder Wilson is addressing the delegates. We all have been waiting a few years for the GC to finally settle the issue of women's ordination. There is a large group assembled for this meeting. It appears that all of the delegates are present this morning. Many visitors in the Alamodome. Will try to update as the day progresses. Am video taping the whole event and will make it available as soon as possible. Let us keep this meeting in our prayers as it progresses.

Richard Myers · « **Reply #26 on:** July 08, 2015, 08:56:37 AM »

The chair has directed the reading of a summary of the three positions on the ordination of women to ministry. Group one has been read, group two is being read now.

Plain Adventist · « **Reply #27 on:** July 08, 2015, 10:12:08 AM »

You can watch a live stream of this historic meeting at https://www.periscope.tv/w/aG0q5zI5ODk1NDZ8MzU5NzU0OTSzJHh1mYh1-L9jFEES4VRbkigr-bf65AAsNEIru53W_Q== The meeting will re-convene at 1:00 pm Central. I have not watched all of the proceedings, but it seemed like the comments time opened up fairly shortly before the meeting broke up for lunch.

Plain Adventist · « **Reply #28 on:** July 08, 2015, 10:16:56 AM »

I am confused by Elder Ng's statement about why we as a church all need to move in unity. I thought the whole purpose of this motion was to allow disunity by each region deciding to do as they choose. He mentioned for example that if a division decides to move one way and one of the unions does not follow suit, they would have trouble. What kind of trouble will they have? Does this mean that if the NAD decides to do WO, my local conference which likely would not want to go that way would be pushed to?

My parents are at the session this morning, having driven from West Virginia. I asked them to take notes.

Richard Myers · « **Reply #29 on:** July 08, 2015, 11:01:13 AM »

Not sure what his thinking is, Amy. There is no unity when off of the platform of Bible truth. If the motion were to pass and some divisions choose to ordain women, then there will be great disunity within most of those divisions since there are faithful in all of them. The point was made by one of the delegates.

Richard Myers · « **Reply #30 on:** July 08, 2015, 11:08:20 AM »

Most of the morning session was devoted to presenting to the delegates that which they already had. In other words, what could have been done in a short period, took most of the meeting. Maybe that was good, in that it is not good to hear lies from the floor all say long. Not all know they have twisted Scripture, but most of the arguments are contrary to Scripture. So, it has been cut short. We will have 2 1/2 hours this afternoon. So far, if someone were from another world, they would be moved to vote for women's ordination, in my estimation of the presentations. Unless one is well studied and understands the Bible, there is much that can be presented that looks good. So far no one has presented the Bible truth that reveals women are not to usurp the authority given to man. If the Bible verses that reveal this are not presented more than once, the motion could pass. If it is just a cultural thing to say no, then statements taken out of context by the highly educated ones will win the day. They have influence.

The Southeastern Calif. Conference has a large presence here today.

Plain Adventist · « **Reply #31 on:** July 08, 2015, 11:16:19 AM »

Thank you for those updates. I am most interested in what is going on. I must have been wrong that the meeting would restart at 1:00. At least I don't see anything happening. I wish I could be there. But I'm so thankful I can at least see some of this online. I hope someone will present Paul's clear teaching on this issue. I think many tend to be afraid of using those verses; they must seem to be too strong.

Richard Myers · « **Reply #32 on:** July 08, 2015, 12:22:35 PM »

That is very sad, because those verses are the foundation of this issue, and Paul points us back to Genesis. The Session has started up again. Doug Batchelor is speaking now about living in a cave and his search for truth. He is speaking of the need for unity in theology. "It is a Biblical issue."

Richard Myers · « **Reply #33 on:** July 08, 2015, 01:22:26 PM »

Former GC president, Jan Paulson, is now promoting women's ordination.

Richard Myers · « **Reply #34 on:** July 08, 2015, 01:35:19 PM »

Paulson went on and on....and has created a lot of unhappiness in the dome. Some Africans are complaining about Paulson's comments about Africa. Points of order are flowing in after Paulson's campaign for women's ordination.

More complaints. This time pointing out each has two minutes, Paulson was not limited.

Richard Myers · « **Reply #35 on:** July 08, 2015, 01:44:37 PM »

Tension has risen in the room. Prayer was called for and now all is quiet.

The number in the Dome appears to be as large as last Sabbath which is most unusual for a midweek business meeting.

Richard Myers · « **Reply #36 on:** July 08, 2015, 01:49:09 PM »

So far not one delegate has addressed Paul's statement about Eve being deceived and Adam being created first, therefore women are not to usurp the authority of man.

Richard Myers · « **Reply #37 on:** July 08, 2015, 02:11:25 PM »

Natasha Neblett just spoke against women's ordination. It was so far in my opinion one of the best statements that did not quote Scripture. She shared a thought that comes from the Spirit of Prophecy about the highest work for a women is that of mother which she is soon to become. She spoke of young people and the many North American Div members who are opposed to women's ordination. If the motion were to pass it would cause great division in North America.

Richard Myers · « **Reply #38 on:** July 08, 2015, 02:20:43 PM »

Ricardo Graham president of the Pacific Union, whose union has supported ordaining women in the union contrary to constituency .

Elder Wilson just addressed the delegates. He merely said, you know my position, but he did not state it. Rather he pleaded for unity no matter what happens with the vote. Such a contrast between the two GC presidents.

Richard Myers · « **Reply #39 on:** July 08, 2015, 02:43:59 PM »

The delegates are preparing to vote by secret ballot. There were efforts to extend the discussion, but it was unsuccessful.