Author Topic: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?  (Read 17444 times)

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Richard Myers

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Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« on: July 05, 2013, 09:52:20 AM »
In our studies of authority given to men, we have found it necessary to look at the relationship that Adam and Eve had before sin. Paul points us in this direction in 1 Timothy when he said "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.  For Adam was first formed, then Eve." 2:12,13.

Some misunderstand and believe that before sin, Adam had authority over Eve. That is not so. Let us take a closer look at this important subject. Brother jjeanniton began heading in that direction in another topic. I have split that conversation off and brought it here for further discussion.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

jjeanniton

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2013, 06:13:13 PM »
It appears that many of you believe that the headship is an inherent intrinsic property of maleness, and submission to that headship is an inherent property of femaleness. Now I want to show you how absurd such a hypothesis is. And by the way, the most conservative branch of the Evangelical Lutheran church teaches that every man is the head of every woman.

Now suppose that sexual ontology IS the determining factor in the question of WHY the Bible teaches Male Headship in the Home and in the Church.

But then, because the sexual constitution and essence is the same for all women and all men INDIVIDUALLY, as well as COLLECTIVELY, in the context of the home and the church, it would follow therefore that every single INDIVIDUAL man automatically and ipso facto has authority over every INDIVIDUAL woman -- and furthermore this authority would not stand in need of any specific and particular  statutory Divine warrant and personal formal official investiture, without which no man can lawfully exercise the headship role in question.

Every single INDIVIDUAL man has authority over every INDIVIDUAL woman in the context of the home and in the church, regardless of whether the man is ordained, or a layman, or whatever other relationship (husband/wife, mother/son, father/daughter, brother/sister, servant/master, man-servant / lady of the house) within the home or church in which the particular man and woman stands.

And in particular, every BROTHER would have legitimate lawful authority de jure divino (i.e. by the force of God's Law) over EVERY sister in the fraternal relationship of brother/sister, without the consent or will of the sister, regardless of any external adventitious circumstances that can vary while the fraternal relationship still remains in occurrence: simply because of their differing sexual nature and constitution!

But one must understand that the ontological sexual essence and nature of any man m0, and any woman w0 is independent of any of the ways in which the various relationships in which they stand (provided that this relationship can be terminated upon the death of one of them) can differ from one another while m0 remains a male and w0 remains a female.

For example, the ontological sexual essence and nature of m0, w0 is independent of their age, and the accidents of birth they find themselves in. For example, m0 could be w0’s son, but that would not change the sexual essence of m0, w0: they would have had the SAME sexual being, when m0, w0's SON, and she is his MOTHER, that they would have if m0 had been w0’s FATHER or HUSBAND, but since the reason is the same in the case where she is his MOTHER and when she is is FATHER or HUSBAND, it follows that in the case where m0 is w0’s SON, and where it concerns the MOTHER/SON relationship, the son m0 would have authority in this matter over his own mother, for the same reasons he would have authority over her if she had been his wife or daughter!

Since this proof applies to every man m0, and every woman w0, it would follow that where it concerns the MOTHER - SON relationship: every SON has authority and headship over his own MOTHER! But that is a violation of the 5th Commandment which gives the MOTHER authority over the SON for the same reasons it gives the FATHER authority over the SON and DAUGHTER or others under the guardianship of the father! And the same can be proven if m0 is w0’s MANSERVANT or MENIAL and w0 is the lady of the house!

In 1711, an Englishwoman by the name of Mary Astell understood full well the ABSURDITY of all this!

http://www.pinn.net/~sunshine/book-sum/astell2.html:

Quote
'Tis true, through want of learning, and of that Superior Genius which Men, as Men, lay claim to, she was ignorant of the Natural Inferiority of our Sex, which our Masters lay down as a Self-evident and Fundamental Truth. She saw nothing in the Reason of Things, to make this either a Principle or a Conclusion, but much to the contrary; it being Sedition at least, if not Treason, to assert it in this Reign. For if by the natural Superiority of their Sex, they mean, that every Man is by Nature superior to every Woman, which is the obvious Meaning, and that which must be stuck to if they would speak Sense, it would be a Sin in any Woman, to have Dominion over any Man, and the greatest Queen ought not to command, but to obey, her Footman: because no Municipal laws can supersede or change the Law of Nature: So that if the Dominion of the Men be such, the Salique Law, as unjust as English Men have ever thought it, ought to take Place over all the Earth, and the most glorious Reigns in the English, Danish, Castilian, and other Annals, were wicked Violations of the Law of Nature!


And such are the absurdities that result from supposing that that the headship is an inherent intrinsic property of maleness, and submission to that headship is an inherent property of femaleness, or that every man is the head of every woman! In due time I shall demonstrate for you the REAL determining factor, and the REAL motive power, of which the exclusive prerogative of Male Headship in the Home and in the Church constitutes a natural product and natural logical irrefutable consequence.

Mimi

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2013, 06:20:08 PM »
We await it, sir.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Richard Myers

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2013, 07:35:37 PM »
It appears that many of you believe that the headship is an inherent intrinsic property of maleness, and submission to that headship is an inherent property of femaleness.

No, it is not what is being said here at all. You misunderstand. Try to keep the level of your posts as simple as possible and don't use support from worldly sources. They carry no weight here. The church does not consider a queen's right to rule over serfs as touching on this issue. Let us restrict ourselves to the inspired counsel that is our guide in life. And, please keep the quotes from mere humans out of the discussion also. We want Bible truth which is pure and unadulterated. It is the basis on which this matter lives or dies. Jesus is our Teacher.  If there is some statement you disagree with, then please quote it and share from  Scripture why you believe it to be wrong.  Thank you, jjeanniton.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

LindaRS

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2013, 08:15:19 PM »
I Agree with Richard. Our only foundation is the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy in the writings of Ellen G. White. We aren't called to follow the world, but rather follow Jesus. If the world is in harmony of the Bible, well, but if not, we leave them alone. They are not our criteria.
O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. O Lord, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing. Jeremiah  10:23-24

jjeanniton

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2013, 11:31:02 AM »
You don't understand! The law of God is not just a question of what is explicitly written in the Bible: but also of everything that can be deduced from good and necessary inference therefrom (even in the reasons and the general moral equity it gives for its moral precepts).

I used the fact that the reasoning found in 1 Corinthians 11:3 - 10 is not limited to husbands and wives only: but apply to all men and all women INDIVIDUALLY without exception. If the legitimacy of authority of males over females is a natural inherent property of sexual being, then these inherent properties of sexual being are the same everywhere at all times, regardless of any ways in which the differing relationships of indiviudal men and individual women may differ from one another. It is these unchangeable and universal inherent properties of sexual being that would automatically invest authority of males over females: and furthermore these unchangeable and universal inherent properties of sexual being would be complete, self-contained, and not standing in need of any adventitious circumstances or characteristics or venues - not even the consent of the female - as a sine qua non for the legitimacy of that authority! Furthermore, they are just as valid for any venue outside of the home and church - however public or private!

Therefore it would follow from GOOD AND NECESSARY INFERENCE that if the correct meaning of 1 Corinthians 11:3 - 10 is that every man is the head of every woman, and/or that the legitimacy of authority of males over females is a natural inherent property of sexual being, then it would apply to a son and his mother, yea, even to a manservant and his mistress! Differing relations and venues in society may vary from one another: essential manhood and essential womanhood can never vary or change. Futhermore the terms and provisions and reasonings of the Word of God found in 1 Corinthians 11:3 - 10 NEVER change or vary between differing relations and venues in society! Therefore my inferences by GOOD AND NECESSARY INFERENCE are valid, and stand in need of NO worldly sources or any politically correct modern ideologies or innovations or novelties or any culturally conditioned circumstances or trends! I have argued this thing purely from the Bible and from GOOD AND NECESSARY INFERENCE of the Bible and the particular hypothetical assumed interpretation of 1 Corinthians 11:3 - 10!

Well then what is the official position of the Bible and Spirit of Prophesy about whether or not male headship is limited to the home and the church? Is male headship limited to the home and the church, or does it also extend to all of society, and therefore much more the State?

wigina

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2013, 11:43:24 AM »
Does male headship amount to dominion? I thought this is about love? About God, is not Jesus the bride groom of the church and likewise in same manner aren't we then told to replicate that throughout all levels?
7: Likewise, all of you husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
  -- I Peter 3:7 (ukjv)
being heirs together!
dwell with them in knowledge and honor even unto a weaker vessel
and Jesus also  says that
Luke 20:35-36: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

itis important that we have order on earth with clear responsibilities according to Gods plan. This leads to  harmonious existence. But the devil will have none of it!



jjeanniton

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2013, 11:51:18 AM »

That ” does not give to a woman a "master of"” would depend on the then zeitgeist or culture, is contradicted by the fact that the almost all the surrounding (pagan) peoples of Israel had both ; high priestesses (Babylon) and female monarchs.


So you mean to tell me that women inheriting the throne in cases where the king has no son, nor grandson, nor great-grandson, nor any other male issue surviving, is a thing absolutely unlawful and forbidden by the Law of God for the same reasons that women priestess is a thing absolutely unlawful and forbidden by the Law of God?

Quote
On the other hand, among God’s people, important public functions such as "prophet" or "judges" were granted to women.
 
The reason why women do not could be "head", could not have had to do with an underestimate or disregard of the intellectual capacity of the individual (in this case the woman) but  it had to do with the function itself because this function is a reflection or " image "of something else.

Just as one and the same man was not allowed to combine the function of priest and king  because of the fact that both functions in itself referred to one person: Jesus Christ.

LindaRS

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2013, 01:21:16 PM »
You don't understand! The law of God is not just a question of what is explicitly written in the Bible: but also of everything that can be deduced from good and necessary inference therefrom (even in the reasons and the general moral equity it gives for its moral precepts).

The last time I checked this was and is a distinctly Catholic doctrine ~> the Bible plus tradition which is precisely what I see your comment stating.

The law of God is exactly what is explicitly written in the Bible. It is not deduced from what is outside of God's Word. We learn from the experiences of life, but we do not learn what God's law is by those experiences or the experiences, mores, codes, practices or laws of the world and it's people. We learn it only from the Bible for that is the expression of His will and character.
O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. O Lord, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing. Jeremiah  10:23-24

Richard Myers

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2013, 02:54:08 PM »

So you mean to tell me that women inheriting the throne in cases where the king has no son, nor grandson, nor great-grandson, nor any other male issue surviving, is a thing absolutely unlawful and forbidden by the Law of God for the same reasons that women priestess is a thing absolutely unlawful and forbidden by the Law of God?

Are you saying that it is wrong for God to absolutely forbid the king to be a priest? That God can't make the rules that we are to live by?

Tell us what Paul was teaching when he said "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.  And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." 1 Tim 2:12-15.

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

jjeanniton

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2013, 04:25:10 AM »
You don't understand my question. All I meant to ask is that in the Old Testament, according to the rules God has given, is the act of women inheriting the throne in cases where the king has no son, nor grandson, nor great-grandson, nor any other male issue surviving, absolutely unlawful and forbidden by the Law of God for the same reasons that women priestess is a thing absolutely unlawful and forbidden by the Law of God? Yes or no?

The reply you have just given me does not answer my question. Instead, your reply is an accusation that I am being a feminist. I did not even ONCE plead in favor of women being priests, pastors, elders, or bishops in the Church.

What I am talking about is the Civil realm of the State. Do the specific and particular precepts in the Old Testament and New Testament teach that the act of women inheriting the throne in cases where the king has no son, nor grandson, nor great-grandson, nor any other male issue surviving, absolutely unlawful and forbidden by the Law of God? Answer me this question.

I never said it was wrong for God to absolutely forbid the king to be a priest or for God to make the rules we are to live by! That is not the question! What makes you believe that I am trying to teach or assume that it is wrong for God to absolutely forbid the king to be a priest or for God to make the rules we are to live by?

And as to your second question, I will answer this later on. In the absence of further Bible evidence, deducible from good and necessary inference of its terms, provisions, and the reasons it gives for its precepts, the presumption is always in favor of the traditional interpretation which maintains an absolute prohibition of women speaking at all in formal worship services.

jjeanniton

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2013, 05:07:40 AM »
You don't understand! The law of God is not just a question of what is explicitly written in the Bible: but also of everything that can be deduced from good and necessary inference therefrom (even in the reasons and the general moral equity it gives for its moral precepts).

The last time I checked this was and is a distinctly Catholic doctrine ~> the Bible plus tradition which is precisely what I see your comment stating.

The law of God is exactly what is explicitly written in the Bible. It is not deduced from what is outside of God's Word. We learn from the experiences of life, but we do not learn what God's law is by those experiences or the experiences, mores, codes, practices or laws of the world and it's people. We learn it only from the Bible for that is the expression of His will and character.

If so, then 1 Corinthians 14:34 absolutely PROHIBITS women to speak out at all in formal worship services, and furthermore this prohibition is PERMANENTLY and UNIVERSALLY binding, and we have NO RIGHT at ALL to make ANY INQUIRIES into the REASON for the ruling: but must explicitly and blindly obey EXACTLY what is written! Yea, it even ABSOLUTELY prohibits women to pray and prophesy in formal worship services at all!

Then the commandment is just like another positive Divine institution like Baptism or the Lord's Supper, where it is no longer a question of the natural moral reason for the command: instead it is only because of God's sovereign statutory will, irrespective of anything inherent to the nature of the case it addresses that women are to keep silence in formal worship services, and that it is shame for them to speak in formal worship services at all!

The right of even Ellen G White by virtue of her office as prophetess to speak in formal worship services cannot be defended without SOME form of inferential reasoning! And as to the quote I gave, you made a subtle accusation against me, by saying what I am teaching is Bible + Tradition. No I am not teaching that!

All I wanted to teach is:

The law of God is not just a question of what is explicitly written in the Bible: but also of everything that can be deduced from good and necessary VALID inference from the Bible using VALID syllogisms (even in the reasons and the general moral equity that the Bible states for its moral precepts) - irrespective of any and all accidental factors foreign or purely accidental to the nature of the case matter it places under consideration.

And as for the distinctively Catholic doctrine of Bible + Tradition, the Catholic distinctive "Traditions" and customs which the Roman Catholics label as Sacred Tradition, CANNOT be deduced at ALL from good and necessary inference from the terms and provisions of Scripture, or the reasons that Scripture gives for its statutory terms and provisions, but on the contrary, have been derived by using Eisegesis and fallacious syllogisms and jesuitical flatteries, briberies, intrigues, and cowardly evasions!

And the last time I checked, this doctrine that "The law of God is not just a question of what is explicitly written in the Bible: but also of everything that can be deduced from good and necessary inference therefrom (even in the reasons and the general moral equity it gives for its moral precepts)" is not a distinctive of Catholicism: it is a Protestant doctrine. In fact, the Westminster Confession of Faith, and the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, both uphold this principle and supply Scripture proofs for their position.

It is THIS principle I wanted to employ:

"VI. The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time" (except what could have already been deduced by good and necessary consequence from Scripture) "is to be added" (viz. as a new part and parcel of the canon of Scripture), "whether by new revelations of the Spirit or traditions of men [2 Tim. 3:15-17; Gal. 1:8-9; 2 Thess. 2:2]. Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word [John 6:45; 1 Cor. 2:9-10,12]: and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God" (note: this includes secret worship, family worship, informal social worship/smaller meeting for devotion: and most of all, Public Formal Worship Services), "and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed [1 Cor. 11:13-14; 1 Cor. 14:26,40]." - Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 1, Article 6.

See the Scripture proofs appealed to by such a position. How dare you call such a position distinctively Roman Catholic! Roman Catholic PAPISTS didn't set down such a position I am advocating! It is PROTESTANTS (and in fact Presbyterians, even with their Cessationist dogma that spiritual gifts have ceased and therefore there is NO PLACE for revelations of the Spirit of Prophecy that Ellen G White wrote, spoke, and taught) who in the 17th century proved this position of mine from the Bible in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS!

Why is it irreverent to interrupt the pastor during a sermon? Does reverence for the sanctuary ALLOW laymen in the audience during a formal worship service while the pastor is preaching a sermon, to interrupt the pastor and use his spiritual gift and prophesy right then and there instead of waiting for a more suitable time after the formal worship service to prophesy? If reverence for the sanctuary absolutely forbids such interruptions even on the part of those unordained laymen who possess the spiritual gift of prophecy, prior to anything revealed by Ellen G White, how could True Protestant Christians EVER forbid such interruptions as contrary to reverence without using SOME form of inferential reasoning or else relying on Sacred Tradition?

In fact, I have documentary PROOF that Papists (i.e. Roman Catholics) have doctrines and teachings of their own professed DOCTORS that actually tend to EVADE and make null and void by their own tradition, that strict exact sacred reverence for the sanctuary they profess to offer to God when they worship Him. These doctrines of theirs need to be exposed and refuted!

Richard Myers

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2013, 07:30:17 AM »
Do you believe this statement: "therefore there is NO PLACE for revelations of the Spirit of Prophecy that Ellen G White wrote, spoke, and taught."  If not, why do you keep using those holding to such blatant error for support of your beliefs?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

jjeanniton

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2013, 07:58:03 AM »
No, it is not because I agree with them that "therefore there is NO PLACE for revelations of the Spirit of Prophecy that Ellen G White wrote, spoke, and taught." It is because I just happen to observe that the only blatant error that the Presbyterians are committing is their belief in Cessationism.

Other than that, they ARE telling the truth when they say that the whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which no one is at liberty on any pretence to add stuff thereto that is not deducible by good and necessary consequence from Scripture using valid and irrefutable syllogisms: This is expressly taught in 2 Tim. 3:15-17; Gal. 1:8-9; 2 Thess. 2:2.

The second point is that the illumination of the Spirit is essential to a salvific understanding of these things revealed in Scripture. This is proven by John 6:45; 1 Cor. 2:9-10,12.

The third point is that there exist many circumstances concerning the worship of God (note: this includes secret worship, family worship, informal social worship/smaller meeting for devotion: and most of all, Public Formal Worship Services), and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed. This is shown by 1 Cor. 11:13-14; 1 Cor. 14:26,40.


Richard Myers

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2013, 08:28:18 AM »
Dear brother, it appears that you agree with what we have been teaching. Yes, there are differing views, but generally it appears that you believe there is a Bible doctrine that prohibits a woman from usurping the authority of a man church and in the home. 

As for the Presbyterians, they imbibe of more significant error than you describe, thus they are not a good authority to be using to support a Biblical argument. I understand that you may have found some good argument put forth by them, but please feel free to just use their argument without giving them credit. As they have quoted Scripture, so may you also. Thank you for your patience as we worked through this.

With the European Church so badly misguided by their society, it appears that they have little regard for the Bible, but are being moved by the world in which they find themselves. With the extension of the Netherlands Union rebellion, it becomes all the more important that the Bible truth regarding role distinction in the church be made plain. While there was role distinction prior to sin, there was a marked difference after Eve ate from the forbidden tree. Those in rebellion refuse to acknowledge that truth.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

jjeanniton

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2013, 10:59:26 AM »
I will therefore try to investigate the Scripture arguments of any source without necessarily giving them credit: but I shall try to do it in a manner that avoids the possibility of plagiarism. I know how serious an offense and exceedingly grievous a sin against the eighth and Ninth commandments of the Decalogue plagiarism is. That is why I was in the habit of quoting these authors for their scriptural proofs and giving THEM the credit. I had no intention of lending credibility to their intentional or unintentional errors or heresies they may have committed.

jjeanniton

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2013, 11:21:20 AM »
The Torah contains a multitude of precise, exact, minute, rigorous, austere, and peremptory rules, statutes, and precepts (of which there are known to be at least six hundred) - and many of them specifically reserved positions of ecclesiastical authority and jurisdiction and formal liturgical sacramental officiation and pontification to adult males of the tribe of Levi. The culture of the surrounding pagan times routinely authorized women to be priestesses, but not the Old Testament! The Old Testament, though it allowed women to serve as prophetesses, did not allow them to serve as priestesses.

I was just wondering: in light of the precise exact rules God laid down in the Old Testament in civil matters no less than in ecclesiastical matters: is the act of women inheriting the throne of Judah in cases where the king of Judah has no son, nor grandson, nor great-grandson, nor any other male issue surviving, absolutely unlawful and absolutely forbidden by the Laws of God as outlined in the Old Testament? Yes or no?


wigina

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2013, 08:27:19 PM »
God never intended for His people to have a King over them! But for tgeir hard headedness! Neither did he intend for His people to have a high priest except for their unbelief!
19: And all of you have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and all of you have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.
  -- I Samuel 10:19 (ukjv)
10: And Moses said unto the LORD, O my LORD, I am not eloquent, neither in time past, nor since you have spoken unto your servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.
11: And the LORD said unto him, Who has made man's mouth? or who makes the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
12: Now therefore go, and I will be with your mouth, and teach you what you shall say.
13: And he said, O my LORD, send, I pray you, by the hand of him whom you will send.
14: And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite your brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he comes forth to meet you: and when he sees you, he will be glad in his heart.
  -- Exodus 4:10-14 (ukjv)
The Lord says He ie a jealous God. He designed that the only leader that His people would have was the prophet! The seer! The one that talked with him expressly. In the eyes of God, the Prophet is more valued than the king. For all these other titles are from the imagination of man! It goes like, appoint unto us a king like the heathen! Or appoint unto yourselves rulers... If not for the historical blindness of Gods people we would not be having such debates! Now we have unto us an high priest who also is king over us and brother in the kingdom of God. So the issue of king and high priest is out of our hands.
Now Jethro told Moses to set captains over the people
Exodus 18:21-22: 21 Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place [such] over them, [to be] rulers of thousands, [and] rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: 22 And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, [that] every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear [the burden] with thee.
But had not Moses taught the people all along for all that time? Was it impossible for God to continue?
Now I do not know what was Gods plan to Adam and Eve to multiply! But I know Jesus said in Heaven there is no marrying or being given to marriage for we will be sons and daughters of God. Yet after sin was travail and all manner of things. God in His wisdom has set up a system that will enable us to conform to the system in heaven and that of His other sons and daughters,not fallen. Yet we do not want His word to take affect into our lives.
Order as God has designed it! Let us please conform! If the Moon decided to shine brighter than the sun what would happen? Or Jesus lifted Himself above God the father? Its possible after all satan did it? Or maybe your child lifted himself above you?
and all these because we do not love God and put human ideas into Gods Holy precepts isn't that what is referred to as abomination? If we would have love of God then there would be no issue with His word. Tor the word of God is Love, yea even Jesus Christ our saviour.



Richard Myers

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2013, 09:32:52 PM »
Yes, wigina, God never wanted Israel to have a king. And, I do not recall anything in Scripture, Brother jeanniton, where God commanded the kingship to pass to the son or daughter or wife. It was and is a worldly custom. If someone knows of Scripture where it was commanded, please share with us. God often appointed kings that were not in the blood line of the king. He certainly allowed a lot of evil kings to rule. Do you think there was a lesson being taught to those whom the ends of the world has come upon?

If there is no command in the Bible, then let's get back a little closer to the home and church.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

wigina

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Re: Did God Create Adam to Rule Over Eve?
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2013, 07:51:58 AM »
The situation at Eden is very telling, it has a lot to tell us over dominion. Adam was lonely and a helper was created for Him but He Adam was given dominion and Eve was a helper! Yet a part thereof of Adam. Maybe we may not know the exact way in which we should relate i.e. Male and Female and therefore we should not take too much time talking about these situations. We should therefore use what we know from scripture and SOP.