Public prayer someone?

[Won Bae]

We always prayer for someone for something.  In our church we do the same thing for those request for prayer, but many times,also, they do not say what the problem is/are.  For instance, pray for my mother. Pray for John who is sick.  Personally, I would like to know why we are praying for that individual, but some say God knows what the problem is.  All right, at the same time, do we have to ask God what to do?   Would He not grant the individual wishes unless someone else prays for him?  Does God need our prayer(request) to do something for someone?  Would He not respond to our needs unless the whole church request God?
This is the question I never asked myself and I never thought about it as always thought it would be nice to pray for someone else as well.  Is this kind of prayer a psychological comfort to us or Does God really want us to pray(request) in this manner?  Do we have any Biblical examples?

I now asking this question because of my wife.  A several years ago, my wife was diagnosed of having multiple myeloma of very early stage.  In fact the oncologist at Dana Faber Clinic in Boston said it is extremely unlikely to develop into a full blown case of cancer.  Then, without letting my wife know I requested our church to pray for my wife.  When she found out what I did she got upset. She does not attend church any longer not because this incidence but some other reason.  Now, she started the cancer treatment at Dana Faber Cancer Institute.  I am in dilemma, should I ask my church to pray for her anyway or stick with my own individual prayer.  As I mentioned above, does God respond only if the public pray for the individual.  Wouldn't He do what is best  for us regardless our prayer requests?

Won

[Richard Myers]

Won, I am sure that others will offer some answers. Here are my thoughts.

Prayer is the key in the hand of faith to unlock heaven’s storehouse, where are treasured the boundless resources of Omnipotence. Without unceasing prayer and diligent watching we are in danger of growing careless and of deviating from the right path.

As I understand, prayer allows God to do what He otherwise may not have done. This is not an indictment of God. He has done enough for every sinner. But, prayer will cause God to do more.

From James:
  5:14   Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 
  5:15   And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 
  5:16   Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. 
  5:17   Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. 
  5:18   And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. 

One of the very sad things that we shall realize when we, by God's grace, get to heaven, is that we should have prayed more for others. Why will it be sad? Because if we had prayed more for others, more would be in heaven. Why can I say this? Because I know that prayer works. It is the working of the Holy Spirit in response to prayer that hearts are opened.

Regarding public prayer, I do not think this is important. Often prayers need to be private.  I will pray for your wife.

Hope this helps some. Have a blessed Sabbath, dear brother.

[Won Bae]

I feel very ashamed of writing this question.  I answered myself.  This morning as I was reading 2 Thess. it came clear to me,  then it also reminded me to read "Prayer" by Ellen White again. I glanced at the book and there were answers to my questions. It is funny though, I have written the similar questions two of my pastors a several days ago, yet I have not received any answer from either.

Won

[Mimi]

Please don't feel ashamed. Sometimes there are events happening in our lives that take up so much space in our thoughts that obvious things cannot readily be seen, not at that moment we need an answer. It is good that we can ask such questions among friends, knowing there is no judgment. You and your wife are in my prayers, Won. You are a treasured brother.

[Richard Myers]

Won, your concern was really public prayer. That was what was bothering you.  I have done the same in trying to work something out.  We don't bring to mind the answers that we know because we are concentrating on something we do not know.  The issue of public prayer for others is a concern.  There are some things that we are not at liberty to pray for publicly. It would be an embarrassment to the individual.  Your concern is one that we all have.

The passage in James I quoted that says to anoint the sick will not work if the sick do not want to be prayed for and anointed. You are amongst friends here. No need to be ashamed.  And God knows your heart. He knows that you are searching for His truth and He loves you for it.

Pastors are very busy, I am sure they will answer your questions.

[Ed Sutton]

Prayer is calling upon a supernatural Person in faith expecting supernatural results according to the decisions and actions of responses of that supernatural Person. 

The answer needs to come from the delegated sources offered by that supernatural Person, He will uphold and act upon the statements made according to the principles shown in Amos 3:7.   

My answers can only give mortal opinions, not supernaturally upheld promises and decrees from Heaven.

  Jesus prayed for the unity of faith, purpose, character, and action in His Church, in John Chapter 17, such unified prayer by a local SDA Church is in keeping with the spirit, attitude, principles, and actions spoken of in Jesus's prayer in John Chapter 17.   

A local Church body amplifies and concentrates the sum of it's praying believing individuals, faith and trust, into the ears, mind, and heart of Jesus, through such, of one mind and heart unified prayers; like focusing concentrating sunlight through a focused magnifying glass on a bright clear day. 

They (that local Church)  are  setting in motion two principles of Christ's teachings, 1.  "That THEY may be ONE as WE are."  2. "according to your faith be it unto you."

  As a church, we have received great light. This light the Lord has entrusted to us for the benefit and blessing of the world. To us has been given the ministry of reconciliation. With power from on high we are to beseech men to be reconciled to God. We are encouraged to pray for success, with the divine assurance that our prayers will be heard and answered. "If two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of My Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:19, 20). "Ask of Me, and I will answer your requests."  {9MR 303.2}

     The promise is made on condition that the united prayers of the church are offered, and in answer to these prayers there may be expected a power greater than that which comes in answer to private prayer. The power given will be proportionate to the unity of the members and their love for God and for one another.--Letter 32, 1903, p. 5. (To Brother and Sister Farnsworth, January 28, 1903.)

White Estate Washington, D. C. October 22, 1979  {9MR 303.3}   

**********************************

("united prayer* "  church = 7  hits   ),    from search engine query  (  prayer church body= 30 hits ) I noted this one RE EGW and prayer for healing for someone she did not personally know the life experience of......,   from       

February 26, 1897 "Prayer for the Sick:"--........ {GCDB, February 26, 1897 par. 1 - 9}

[Ed Sutton]

part-1  10K limit

A more recent story of united Church prayer, vs 50 yrs of private two person prayers; as was told as a personal testimony sermon by Mrs Edwards herself at the 1st SDA Church, Nashville TN, Blair Blvd, Nashville TN, summer 1975, from my memory as a newly wed member of that local SDA Church, as she preached it to 500-700 SDA's that Sabbath sermon.

****************

The Story of Josephine Cunnington Edwards brother Bill

She stood in the pulpit of the Nashville, Tennessee First Seventh Day Adventist Church, that Sabbath in the scorching summer of 1975. She was in her seventies then, and apologizing for having a huge full length fur coat on.

She said she got cold easier than she used to and the air conditioners were chilling down the Sanctuary well , to accommodate the approx. 500+ crowd gathered to hear her; the coat was a gift - she could not afford such a thing her self. Then she laughed that famous arresting unique Josephine Cunnington Edwards laugh. Veteran teacher, speaker, missionary that she was,   quickly we were enthralled.

I will try to remember from a quarter century ago+ and write this in the first person as best I can with no apologies for gaps. You try to remember a stirring sermon word for word from a quarter century ago+ and you'll see what I mean.
******************

"My brother Bill was the kind of person you could not make cry. He was 12 yrs older than me, and I never saw him cry. He was sort of head strong and stubborn and when he got hurt or punished he would say "you'll never make me cry."

When I was just months old and in a carriage he would wheel me around very fast and I would whoop and squeal, but one day he decided to let me roll down a hill in the carriage. He got punished and was heard to say "you can't make me cry no sir." Our parents were God fearing Seventh Day Adventists, who raised us to know and love God and serve Him. Family worships were some of times I would hear them pray for us outloud . The time came that as a teenager Bill decided to stop going to church. This hurt our parents deeply and their prayers for us and especially him, became more frequent and more earnest.

Bill started drinking and smoking and rebelling more and more till he decided to join the military. Bill invented new curse words for the Church, he drank and smoked and swore, but he married an Adventist girl Mary.

Our parents prayed for all us kids but especially for my brother Bill, morning and evening they would plead with God for his salvation and protection ; but with no seeming answer, till the day each died.

Now the sermon shifts.

I had been teaching at Laurel Brook (named other places also)for years and had been a missionary, an educator, a Bible Instructor, a lecturer, an author. But this was the last thing I would have expected, in the 1940's this was unheard of.

The Conference brethren came to me at Laurel Brook and asked me to pastor a small Seventh Day Adventist Church temporarily. I could speak to thousands without batting an eye, but this scared me so bad I just shook.
I couldn't do that. They kept saying we need you, the men are overseas as chaplains. We believe God has put a mantle on you and we are impressed by Him to urge you to do this . Well the conference leaders you know how they can keep working at you . I said I would pray about it, they said fine; just consider it & pray. Then the urging would keep getting stronger and more frequent.

Like Moses I kept offering excuses and objections, and they kept meeting and answering them and praying made it worse. Finally I relented ,"but I don't know what to do!!!" They coached me on what to do in general but reminded me I had corralled a lot of their unruly and headstrong children over the years, I could handle this; ask the Lord for direction.

(She never named the little SDA Church nor location - for good reason as you will see later.)

[Ed Sutton]

part 2 - 10K limit

If I go I'd like to start with prayer meeting, sort of ease into it and not make a complete fool of myself.

It was a Tuesday evening prayer meeting and I was trapped with no way out . I was in the pastors study and though I could pull up dozens of stories at a moments notice anywhere else I was terrified. Lord what do I do? If You really want me here You are going to have to take over I don't know what to say I don't know what to do. Then it seemed as if a voice said to me "get in the pulpit I will tell you what to say."

I got in the pulpit speechless and just looked at the people without saying anything for what seemed like the longest time. I seemed to look at them and The Holy Spirit caused me to see the hatred, revenge, gossip, and hear them whispering about each other and backbiting and so on.

I pinned their ears back and let um have it both barrels and poured hot coals of fire on um. That's not the introductory sermonette I had planned . I began to preach on a very different topic with righteous indignation.

How dare you come into God's house pretending to worship Him while hating and gossiping and backbiting your brothers and sisters in church. God won't stand for it, He hates it. If you want to worship God, leave your gift at the alter and go make things right with your brethren first then come back and worship God . He will not accept your hypocrital worship like this, He sees you, He hears you, how dare you do this.

I told the organist to play till the prayers were finished. This church had an old pump pipe organ and one big aisle down the center, wooden floors that creaked with every move , and swinging doors at the back of the sanctuary that creaked and squeaked coming and going.

"Now lets kneel and pray .... while every knee is bowed and every eye is closed go to the ones you have gossiped about and hurt and have a grudge against or have hurt you . Go make things right forgive them, but if you can't or wont - go out those back doors and don't come back till you do. God will only work with the people who obey His instructions, He can do more with the loyal few than a large bunch of hypocrites.!!!"

For twenty minutes we prayed, the organ pumped and wheezed and played, the floor squeaked as people crossed over to each other and whispers and sobs were heard, and the back door swung a lot. Finally when all was quiet I got up off my knees and others had finished praying .

The church was 1/3 - 2/3 emptied of people . I said come up front and press together. Then laughed and said remember what the Lord told Sister White about evil angels and empty pews, don't leave any empty spaces."

Now God can do more with the few who are repentant than the many who are stubborn. Remember Jesus said where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst. Remember Gideon's army of 300.

"Now I've got a burden, and I shared the story of my brother Bill and asked to have a season of intercessory prayer for him. Remember that was a Tuesday night. Well we all prayed and the Spirit came upon us and everyone prayed like it was their own long lost brother they were pleading for - we were weeping with those who weep like it was our own, and it was.  "

I wish it had been video taped she was the only SDA speaker with her own better sound effects than Jose Rojas.

She made you see it, feel it, be there, and feel the thrill & conviction and shock of the incredible conclusion.

"The old wood floor creaked, the organ wheezed and huffed and puffed"

& Josephine poured it on with everything she had and God's Spirit from above.

From shy & retiring preacher not wanta be to roaring lion for God, through God with His power pushing conviction home & some out the door. I have forgotten so many details, it's been over a quarter century ago she told it.

"I told them about Bill, his stubbornness that built over years, how our parents prayed and cried morning and evening and plead with God for Bill and all us kids. Bill was the one in the family that tested their love the most. He was hurting on the inside but would not surrender, pride and what ever else was overpowering his good points.

Day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade, they prayed with breaking hearts and tortured hopes for their wayward son. They had to wonder why, why were their prayers not answered.

As I told them this you would think it was their brother Bill, for quickly they felt a companion burden for him also as if he were their prodigal sibling and not just mine.

[Ed Sutton]

part 3 - 10K limit

As one person we all knelt and the Spirit of God filled the room, we prayed and plead with God for Bill as a fully united penitent group. Remember that was on Tuesday night.

There was an unusual phone call on Thursday (just a day and a half later). Bill's wife Mary called me and said "Josephine if your standing sit down", my heart sank fearing the worst - Bill was not in good health. There was a long pause and I fearing that I was about to hear that Bill had died waited in dread.
Mary was speaking " Josephine when I was coming home from the market, and got close to home I saw a lot of smoke and smelled the most awful smell, it looked like it was coming from the house so I ran home as fast as I could . The smoke was coming from a big pile of burning trash in the back yard. I looked around for Bill and he was coming out of and going into the kitchen, muttering under his breath and cursing and swearing "I have to stop....##!!<>}{##!! ...I just can't ...##!!<>}{##!!...I can't do that anymore .

Has Bill had a stroke, has he gone crazy ? I rush in the kitchen and the fridge door is wide open and I hear this glub glub glub down the sink drain with Bill going back and forth and doing things and not explaining. Soon I realized that he was pouring all his wine, beer, and liquor down the sink. All the smoke and smells were coming from a burning pile in the back yard. It stunk so bad it ruined my washing on the clothesline and I had to do it over a few times to get the smell out. Bill was burning all his cigars, cigarettes, pipes, tobacco everything. He was chewing, chewing gum and pacing around and muttering and raging under his breath."

Josephine I never expected to see these things happen . At church we keep praying for him but nothing like this has ever happened."

When I heard this I was thrilled and moved more than if I had been given the news I thought I was going to hear. This was a shock, but a wonderful shock. I immediately called a meeting of the church family and told them all these things.

They then decided to keep on searching their lives with Scripture like the upper room just before Pentecost and put away everything that would block God from honoring their prayers and that they would pray what He wanted. They started a strictly voluntary 24 hrs round the clock prayer vigil, someone or as many as possible would be pleading with God, wrestling with Him for Bill's full surrender & salvation & for Jesus to do whatever it took to reach Bill.

The little church got under a lot of conviction and really knuckled down to pleading with God for Bill. I told them the Bible's story of the stirring in the tops of the mulberry trees and how with Bill giving up these things only - this was not the goal- not to stop now. God was working honoring their surrender to His written will and it was time to move in faith and hang on until God finished His work. God was working to save Bill & Satan would work to stop that in Bill & in us so God could not honor our prayers because of our sins individually and as a local church.


2 Samuel 5:
17 ¶ But when the Philistines heard that they had anointed David king over Israel, all the Philistines came up to seek David; and David heard of it, and went down to the hold.
18 The Philistines also came and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim.
19 And David enquired of the LORD, saying, Shall I go up to the Philistines? wilt thou deliver them into mine hand? And the LORD said unto David, Go up: for I will doubtless deliver the Philistines into thine hand.
20 And David came to Baalperazim, and David smote them there, and said, The LORD hath broken forth upon mine enemies before me, as the breach of waters. Therefore he called the name of that place Baalperazim.
21 And there they left their images, and David and his men burned them.
22 And the Philistines came up yet again, and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim.
23 And when David enquired of the LORD, he said, Thou shalt not go up; but fetch a compass behind them, and come upon them over against the mulberry trees.
24 [And let it be, when thou hearest the sound of a going in the tops of the mulberry trees, that then thou shalt bestir thyself: for then shall the LORD go out before thee, to smite the host of the Philistines.
25 And David did so, as the LORD had commanded him; and smote the Philistines from Geba until thou come to Gazer.

1 Chronicles 14:
8 ¶ And when the Philistines heard that David was anointed king over all Israel, all the Philistines went up to seek David. And David heard of it, and went out against them.
9 And the Philistines came and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim.
10 And David enquired of God, saying, Shall I go up against the Philistines? and wilt thou deliver them into mine hand? And the LORD said unto him, Go up; for I will deliver them into thine hand.
11 So they came up to Baalperazim; and David smote them there. Then David said, God hath broken in upon mine enemies by mine hand like the breaking forth of waters: therefore they called the name of that place Baalperazim.
12 And when they had left their gods there, David gave a commandment, and they were burned with fire.
13 And the Philistines yet again spread themselves abroad in the valley.
14 Therefore David enquired again of God; and God said unto him, Go not up after them; turn away from them, and come upon them over against the mulberry trees.
15 And it shall be, when thou shalt hear a sound of going in the tops of the mulberry trees, that then thou shalt go out to battle: for God is gone forth before thee to smite the host of the Philistines.
16 David therefore did as God commanded him: and they smote the host of the Philistines from Gibeon even to Gazer.

[Ed Sutton]

conclusion - 10 K limit

There was a strong revival and reformation going on in that little church. They took the matter of Bill's salvation personally to heart as if he was their dearest kin and not a stranger at all. These same people who had been bickering and backbiting and gossiping and unforgivingly holding life long grudges and alienated not so long ago. God was working on them and in them and through them as much or more than He was Bill.

About a week later Mary (Bill's wife) called me again. This time she said "Josephine if your standing sit down , and if your sitting lay down. I think I sat down. I came home that evening and was making supper, when I heard a knock at the door. I just figured Bill would entertain the company and I would prepare extra food and see them soon as I was done ."
Oh what she missed by not going in. It reminds me of the story of Mary, Martha, and Lazarus. Martha was so busy she was missing out on what she needed to hear. I get sidetracked so easy there are so many Bible stories to tell.

Back to Mary's phone call. " When I was finished fixing supper I went into the living room and newspapers were scattered all over the floor. My big heavy recliner was pulled right up in front of Bills recliner. And I was so shocked, Bill was sitting in his recliner with his face in his hands sobbing and crying and bawling his heart out. The tears were not dripping from between his fingers they were running in streams down between his fingers, he was shaking and heaving and could not speak for a long while.

In our 30 yrs of marriage I have never seen Bill cry, not even at his parents funerals, he would steel his face and set his jaw and show no emotion at all - like a rock.

Then when he could begin to talk all broken like a child crying and trying to talk and sobbing and hiccuping and trying to talk he said . (BILL speaking)"Mary call for the Adventist pastor to come now, I want to be rebaptized . I'll tell you what happened while he is on the way". ( Mary speaking) "I was so shocked I thought I was going to faint." She did so as fast as she could get the operator to dial the number she was so shook up. Those were the days of party lines and dial phones no push buttons. This time it was Mary who sat down, she just fell into her chair with her jaw open.

(BILL speaking between sobs now growing a little lighter allowing him to speak more)
"I was reading the paper like always and I heard a knock at the door, I started to get up to answer it but it didn't happen like it did then, before I could get out of my chair the screen and the door opened and Oh Mary He came in. Of all the artists and paintings of Him, no one has ever came close to painting Him as beautiful as He is. I knew Him immediately I recognized Him from the scars in His forehead and the nail prints in His Hands. The Creator and Lord of the universe came down to, my home on Dexter St in Tampa, FL to see ME !!!

"He walked across the living room floor and took the arm of your heavy recliner and pulled it over in front of mine and sat down in front of me, I was too shocked to speak or move. All I can do is look at Him dumbfounded. He sits down real close facing me . With the kindest but sad look HE says  (Quoting - Jesus speaking)
"Bill I need a favor, would you help me? Your parents prayed to me for fifty years and I can not answer their prayers. I am coming soon and I need your help. [/b] [/u] When I return AND RESURRECT YOUR PARENTS I want(emphasis mine-do you realize Jesus just told Bill they were eternally safe.), to stand you in front of their graves and put the crown of life upon your head so you are the first one they see when they come up even before they see me. Bill will you give me your heart ?"
 (BILL speaking )

"I fairly screamed and cried Yes Lord I'll do anything for You. He told me He was returning soon and to tell my fellow church members, then He gave some personal messages for my family and pop like turning out a light bulb he disappeared . Then Mary you came in."

(Josephine was telling it all, but in the first person,  but back to Josephine.)

Bill rejoined the church, he had married Mary who had been SDA at the time and still was. My brother Bill did not live but a few months longer . "

END OF THE STORY ABOUT HER BROTHER BILL AND JOSEPHINE'S TIME AS A PASTOR.

Think about our responsibility to each other & the purity of the church & the churches' responsibility to God . Think about how Jesus honored obedient childlike humble repentant church wide faith in person even though it was supposed to be impossible for Him to leave the Most Holy Place without the seven last Plagues falling. But He did it and He did it in person .

[colporteur]

Prayer is such an important topic. There is no short cut for studying  it out ourselves. There is so much inspired testimony on the subject. It could be that this is the most important subject in all he Bible. Sometimes it is a sin to pray for someone or somethng. Prayers can be an abomination to God. For instance, it is a sin to pray that an active smoker be healed of lung cancer. It is a sin to pray for an SDA to get a new job as a CEO for Coca Cola. However, it is not a sin to pray that if the person's heart is not sealed against God that God move in a special manner to touch the person's heart. I cringe in church when people request prayer a miss.