Rebellion in the Church > Women's Ordination
Rebellion Against the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists
Richard Myers:
Some have not rightly understood the seriousness of the current situation in the church. Some have told me that our calling this crisis a "rebellion" is over the top. At least a few months ago that was said. I share a quote from eleven years ago that will show that the term rebellion was applied way back then. When rebellion is not dealt with, it will continue to not only fester, but will spread and infect others. We now see that by not addressing the rebellion so many years ago, it has indeed spread widely within the church. The then president of the General Conference publicly stated that the ones in rebellion had Biblical principle on their side. This poured fuel on the fire of rebellion.
--- Quote from: Richard Myers on September 02, 2001, 08:06:00 PM ---It is with great sadness that we report a decision made by the Pacific Union Conference in session last week. The Union voted a change in the bylaws which will now allow for a person holding commissioned ministerial credentials to be considered for the office of union president. In the past only an ordained minister could hold this position. With this change the ordained ministers can be under authority of one not ordained. Why the vote? To allow a women to lead the union, to allow a women to lead men.
The rebellion against the world church that began in the South Eastern California Conference has now spread to the Pacific Union Conference. The silence in response to the SEEC action has led to this union action and we can anticipate that if there is a similar lack of response from those in responsible positions in the church the rebellion will continue to spread.
Let us weep between the porch and the altar.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Richard Myers on September 02, 2001, 08:56:00 PM ---"When unfaithful teachers came among the people, weakness followed, and the faith of God's people seemed to wane; but God arose and purged his floor, and the tried and true were lifted up.
There are times when apostasy comes into the ranks, when piety is left out of the heart by those who should have kept step with their divine Leader. The people of God separate from the source of their strength, and pride, vanity, extravagance, and display follow. There are idols within and idols without; but God sends the Comforter as a reprover of sin, that his people may be warned of their apostasy and rebuked for their backsliding. When the more precious manifestations of his love shall be gratefully acknowledged and appreciated, the Lord will pour in the balm of comfort and the oil of joy.
When men are led to realize that their human calculations come far short, and are convinced that their wisdom is but foolishness, then it is that they turn to the Lord to seek him with all the heart, that they may find him." CE 95
--- End quote ---
Richard Myers:
Ellen White has been used by those leading out in the rebellion as an example of a woman leading men. There are indeed examples in the Bible of women in the church leading men. The Bible does not teach that this is the way it ought to be. But, when men fail to lead, then God has indeed raised up a woman to lead men. It is a shameful thing. It is out of God's order.
--- Quote from: Richard Myers on September 03, 2001, 12:50:00 PM ---
Ellen White was a woman mightily used of God and I pray that my daughters would one day be so privileged.
Why is it that those who act contrary to the General Conference decision and want to raise a women to authority over men have such little regard for the woman who God used in such a mighty manner? There has never been consistency in error and never will be. When our people cherish the light that God has been pleased to send to His church, then we shall see a revival of primitive godliness that will culminate in the second coming of Christ.
The Bible is the rule of my life. It gives me great joy to say that my mind has been formed by the Bible and the writings of Ellen White more than any other influence in this world. I would that I could find a man to learn from in such a profound manner. The idea that men ordained into the ministry would want to be led by a woman is a revelation of the sad condition we find our ministry in.
One last comment that must be seen as a truth that cannot easily be overlooked. The Pacific Union Conference has certain specific responsibilities. What are they? There are church institutions that have been established by the union and look to the Union for leadership. What institutions are these that the union has responsibilities towards? Two come to mind very quickly. Schools of "higher" education and hospitals (sanitariums). When one examines these institutions in the Pacific Union and compares the counsels given through a woman prophet for the running of these institutions, one will find that no matter what one says about respecting the position of a woman, little regard has been shown to the inspired writings of this woman, Ellen White.
It is not what one says, but what one does that indicates character. Profession means nothing to God, only the obedience rendered from a willing heart. Professing to want to be led by a woman means nothing. God chose a woman to speak through and much of what was said is rejected. Let the desire to see women exalted be given to exalting God and His inspired counsel.
Once again a line has been drawn in the sand. And in this case the General Conference in session stands on the right side. Who else will stand on the Lord's side?
--- End quote ---
Dorine:
Amen Richard. We are watching this with intense interest. I am amazed at the comments I'm hearing from those around me that I thought were grounded. They just don't see the big deal.
Wally:
--- Quote from: Richard Myers on August 22, 2012, 12:31:20 AM ---Ellen White has been used by those leading out in the rebellion as an example of a woman leading men. There are indeed examples in the Bible of women in the church leading men. The Bible does not teach that this is the way it ought to be. But, when men fail to lead, then God has indeed raised up a woman to lead men. It is a shameful thing. It is out of God's order.
--- End quote ---
One thing that seems to have been forgotten in this discussion, and the misuse of the SOP by the proponents of WO, is that God calls a prophet directly. The prophet, be they male or female, is speaking for God, delivering the Lord's messages. It is a "thus saith the Lord." Elders and pastors, by contrast, are chosen by the church and ordained by the church. They are invested with a certain amount of authority in the direction of church affairs. A prophet can speak for God, but how much authority does he or she really have? The can't force anyone to accept the message. Look at Jeremiah. Do we find Mrs. White ordering people around? She often said, "I was shown;" but it was up to the recipients of the message to accept it or reject it.
Maybe it's a small difference, but when it comes to the issue of authority, its seems significant to me.
Larry Lyons:
--- Quote from: Wally on August 22, 2012, 05:18:39 PM ---
--- Quote from: Richard Myers on August 22, 2012, 12:31:20 AM ---Ellen White has been used by those leading out in the rebellion as an example of a woman leading men. There are indeed examples in the Bible of women in the church leading men. The Bible does not teach that this is the way it ought to be. But, when men fail to lead, then God has indeed raises up a woman to lead men. It is a shameful thing. It is out of God's order.
--- End quote ---
One thing that seems to have been forgotten in this discussion, and the misuse of the SOP by the proponents of WO, is that God calls a prophet directly. The prophet, be they male or female, is speaking for God, delivering the Lord's messages. It is a "thus saith the Lord." Elders and pastors, by contrast, are chosen by the church and ordained by the church. They are invested with a certain amount of authority in the direction of church affairs. A prophet can speak for God, but how much authority does he or she really have? The can't force anyone to accept the message. Look at Jeremiah. Do we find Mrs. White ordering people around? She often said, "I was shown;" but it was up to the recipients of the message to accept it or reject it.
Maybe it's a small difference, but when it comes to the issue of authority, its seems significant to me.
--- End quote ---
Good points Wally. It is also interesting that Ellen White was God's third choice after two young men refused to carry God's messages to others. I believe the second one was Hazen Foss. I don't recall the other. Not that its relevant, but If I remember correctly, Hazen Foss was African American.
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