Author Topic: 27 Principles of Music  (Read 76734 times)

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Richard Myers

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2010, 10:14:01 PM »
Thank you, Friend John for these important truths!
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2010, 09:20:09 AM »
Post #3 Principle 3

An Illustration of CCM (Contemporary Christian Music) Rock & Roll.

In Tampa, Florida, Billy Graham’s Team held a crusade for youth.
A newspaper reporter wrote: “this wasn’t sweet hour of prayer--this was rock and roll, sometimes soft and tender as the sweetest love song, sometimes hard edged and growling, but it wasn’t words alone that brought the crowd clapping and cheering to their feet. There were some hefty assist for sing your praise from booming guitar lines and crashing drums.”

As the last seconds of this earth’s history tick into oblivion, the line between CCM and the music of the world is becoming increasingly difficult to distinguish.

Youth night wasn’t anything like I imagined,” wrote a Tampa Bay high school sophomore who attended. “In some way…it was like a regular rock concert. People danced in the stands and on the field. I was surprised to see girls dressed like hoochie mamas and teens smoking pot in the corner of the smoking balcony.” Another teen said. “I’m not a Christian, but these people seem happy, I’m an atheist. I don’t believe in God, I’m here for the fun of it.”

Somehow today, people want God to be an entertainer. And so they are busy dressing Him up to fit their lifestyle, whether it includes ragged jeans, unbuttoned shirts, or sensual dress. Unfortunately, we destroy the honor and reverence that is due to God when we present Him as a super star, clown, or worldly entertainer. This is a mockery. The church, as Christ bride, should not belittle the bridegroom. Great men of faith have been martyrs, not swingers.

In society’s continuing search for entertainment, we often forget that there was nothing entertaining about the eternal deity of Christ, bathed in the glory He had with the Heavenly Father “…before the world began.” (John 17:5)

There was nothing entertaining about His coming into the world and “… taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.” (Philippians 2:7)

There was nothing entertaining about His miracles; they were performed for
“…God’s glory so that God’s Son could be glorified.” (John 11:4)

There was nothing entertaining about His life long struggle against temptation,…for He suffered when He was tempted.” (Hebrews 2:18)

There was nothing entertaining about His prayer life, for we are told that “…He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears…” (Hebrews 5:7)

There was nothing entertaining about His experience in the Garden of Gethsemane, when “…His sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground,” (Luke 22:44)

There was nothing entertaining about His agonizing death on the cross, when the burden of our sin forced Him to cry out, “…My God why have you forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46)

There was nothing entertaining about His resurrection, by which He was “…declared with power to be the Son of God…” (Romans 1:4) There was nothing entertaining about His ascension into heaven, when He was “… taken up to Glory,” ( 2 Timothy 3:16)

There will be nothing entertaining when He returns to earth and “…every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him…” (Revelation 1:7)

And there will be nothing entertaining when all of humanity stands before Him as “…judge of the living and the dead.” (Acts 10:42) He will pronounce the eternal destiny of every one of us.
What are you thoughts?

Sister Dee

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2010, 09:56:27 AM »
It makes me want to weep on two accounts.  For one, the way the Christian world has reduced God to fit the image of what they want Him to be.  And the other is when one stops and contemplates what Jesus has done for us and Who He is.  If these people would stop and really behold Jesus, how things would change!  But, I fear, this is not the Jesus these people want.   :(

colporteur

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2010, 01:03:38 PM »
I appreciate your thoughts, brother John. While we are to be hopeful this is not a time to celebrate. While we are happy and cheerful the day of Atonement is something that carries a solemnity like no other time in history. While the crisis is stealing upon us much of the world seems to be in a boogy woogy bugle boy mode.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2010, 01:48:03 PM »
Colporteur, thank you for your insight you shared in your post. Friend John

Principal #4 We can trust God’s word and the Spirit of Prophecy to settle the music question for us.

First let us look at scripture. The Bible refers to this important topic more than five-hundred-fifty times. It has more references to music than it does to heaven, hell, or even grace!

1John 4:1 “Beloved, Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out in the world.

“Testing the Spirits” can be a little risky, for it may require a decision we don’t want to make. This reminds me of an experience we had with some friends in Glendale California. My wife and I love Mexican food, and we often went to a popular Mexican restaurant with friends from our church.
Being good vegetarians, we were shocked to hear one day that they used lard in their beans. We double-checked for ourselves, and found out the unhappy truth.
My wife was talking to our friends and said “ I have bad news about the beans at the restaurant.
“Oh don’t tell us” they quickly replied. “If we don’t know, we can still eat there  with a clear conscience.”
If this is our attitude towards music, we should ask ourselves who are we fooling, God or ourselves?

Proverbs 14:12 ” There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is death.

The question we need to answer individually is whether we are willing to search the truth out for ourselves.
Ephesians 5:10 “Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.” Or are we content to follow the world in its taste for music and pleasure?
Part of the proving process involves hiding God’s Word in your heart. This means read it, digest it, and make it a part of our everyday lives. David wrote:
Psalms 119:11”I have hidden Your Word in mine heart, that I might not sin against You.”

11Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for  teaching, for reproof , for correction, for training in righteousness.”
Music has the power to either build us up, or tear us down, spiritually. That is why it is so important for us to hold every song we sing up to the mirror of God’s Word.
Psalms 119:9 “How can a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to Thy Word.”

I wish to paraphrase Philippians 4:8 “Finally, friends, whatsoever music is true, whatsoever music is honest, whatsoever music is just, whatsoever music is pure, whatsoever music is lovely, whatsoever music is of good report: if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, listen to that music.”

When accommodating theology is the norm, remember Hebrews 13:8
“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.”



Richard Myers

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2010, 09:58:57 PM »
Amen!!!
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2010, 07:56:43 AM »
Part 2 - Principal 4

In an age when an increasing number of Adventists feel that the Spirit of Prophecy is out-of-date and written for the culture of the day, it is also important to remember that unfortunate attitudes and their unhappy consequences were, like so many events in Christian history, also foretold by the pen of a prophet.

Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God’s remnant people in the true testimony.—Letter 12, 1890.

The enemy has made his masterly efforts to unsettle the faith of our own people in the Testimonies….This is just as Satan designed it should be, and those who have been preparing the way for the people to pay no heed to the warnings and reproofs of the Testimonies of the Spirit of God will see that a tide of errors of all kinds will spring into life. —Letter 109, 1890.

The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. “Where there is no vision, the people perish” (Proverbs 29:18).

There are few means more effective for fixing His words in the memory than repeating them in song. And such songs has wonderful power. It has power to subdue rude and uncultivated natures; power to quicken thought and to awaken sympathy, to promote harmony of action, and to banish the gloom and foreboding that destroy courage and weaken effort. Education page 167, 168

                                             POINTS TO PONDER

1)  Have you ever been tempted to quote the Bible or Spirit of Prophecy when they fit your theology, but ignore other passages that cross your cultural standards?
2)  Do you believe in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy as inspired words of instruction, relevant to our lives today?
3)  If so, are you willing to accept what the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy teach about lifestyle issues-including music?
4)  What do you think the above quotes should mean to you?


                                               Yes, This is our hope,
                                              ’Tis built on His word-
                                The glorious appearing of Jesus, our Lord;
                                      Of promises all, it stands as the sun:
                               “Behold I come quickly, hold fast till I come.”

                                               “Hold fast till I come,”
                                          Sweet promise of heaven--
                                             “The kingdom restored,
                                              To you shall be given.”

                                               “Come enter my joy.
                                            Sit down on my throne;
                                       Bright crowns are in waiting;
                                             Hold fast till I come,”
              
      Church Hymnal page 600 ---- F.E. Belden            

Richard Myers

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2010, 09:02:14 AM »
1)  Have you ever been tempted to quote the Bible or Spirit of Prophecy when they fit your theology, but ignore other passages that cross your cultural standards?

A very good point for all to consider. If we ignore truth because it does not agree with our culture or desires, then it is evidence that we do not cherish the truth as it is in Jesus. God  is sending more and more of it (truth), and it will cause a shaking in the church.  Those who love the truth and Jesus will appreciate it, even when it goes against our very nature (fallen). When truth is rejected, then we can know that there is a work to be done in the life. Then we can understand our need of a Saviour. Let us turn to Jesus with the whole heart. He is the only shelter in this time of great trouble which is coming on the earth.

If we find ourselves liking a particular style of music that some are opposed to, it ought to give us reason to consider why. It may be that those who are objecting love Jesus and want to glorify Him. Now, it may that they do not and they are deceived, but this is the test for us today. The line between truth and error is becoming very narrow. There is much that has come into God's church from the fallen churches. Has this happened with music? Are we reaching toward heaven or are will being pulled down by those who have rejected truth in the fallen churches? Something to pray about. I am distraught when I seek to find hymns that are inspired and sung in a holy manner. Hours have been spent on the internet looking for heavenly music. What do I find? Garbage. So much Satanic music disguised as Christian music. Hours and hours looking. It is painful to listen to the "Christian" music being put out by the fallen churches.

There is a plan that has been put into place by Satan to ensnare us. He uses music to do so. Multitudes of young people are caught. It is their natural fallen nature that is being appealed to. They naturally want to dance and many are pleased to lead them on. Where are the spiritual leaders?

Thank you, Friend John for the very good principles being put forth. They are needed just at this time!
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2010, 08:38:09 AM »
Principle #5 Just as a little poison spoils the stew, so a little error spoils the song.

The devil is an expert at mixing truth with error, and as a result we get “tainted theology” in some of our churches today. One such song that comes to mind, is, “Rise Again”. Here are the words to the first stanza.
“Go ahead, drive the nails in my hands,
Laugh at me, where you stand,”
“…The day will come when you will see.
Cause I’ll rise again, ain’t no power on earth can keep me down…”  

“He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth.  Isaiah 53:7

“Satan with his fierce temptations wrung the heart of Jesus. The Saviour could not see through the portals of the tomb. Hope did not present to Him His coming forth from the grave a conqueror, or tell Him of the Father’s acceptance of the sacrifice. He feared that sin was so offensive to God that Their separation was to be eternal. Christ felt the anguish which the sinner will feel when mercy shall no longer plead for the guilty race. It was the sense of sin, bringing the Father’s wrath upon Him as man’s substitute, that made the cup He drank so bitter, and broke the heart of the Son of God.”
(Desire of Ages page 753)

Amy Grant came on the CCRM scene when she was age 15, back in the early seventies. She has been endorsed by Robert Schuler of the Glass Cathedral, Max LaCardo, Author, Billy Graham’s son now speaker. She is still writing, and has won the most awards of all of any of the big stars in the industry.
Here is one of the early years songs she wrote. I was in Youth Evangelism in those day’s and holding weeks of prayer in the academy’s across the country, and I would hear this song on the radio’s from the dorms.        

“Grape Grape Joy”
I am a small and lonely grape, clutching to the vine.
Waiting for the day when I’ll become my Savior‘s wine.
Oh wouldn’t French cuisine just yearn it, I’ve eternity to ferment
Knowing me I’d end up ripple in the cellar of Chablis.
I think that the words speak loud and clear without further comment. I have several other examples I could share, but I feel bad to even give anymore words of the many, many, Christian Rock Star performers songs.
What do you think?  
 

  

Tim2

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2010, 10:57:45 AM »
I love these principles so far.  The principles themselves can be applied across the spectrum of Adventist belief and even further.  I think where we get into trouble is taking a general principle and interpret it to mean what we want it to mean in any area.  But so far I find myself agreeing with the principles themselves. 

colporteur

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2010, 12:23:56 PM »
I think we tend to take a lose stand in applying the principles when we do not see the danger and or when we are determined to go our own way.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

Richard Myers

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2010, 04:48:58 PM »
I think you are making good points, Friend John.  Pastor Wilson has pointed out that we need to stop going to the fallen churches for our food. When we pattern our worship, theology, and music after them, we err. The fact that CCM is popular in the fallen churches ought to give us cause to consider there may be a reason.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2010, 08:52:53 AM »
Principle 5 part 2

The question to answer is which side of Galatians 5 does our music fall on?

“For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not what you want.” Galatians 5:17

Galatians 5:19-26
19 “Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like of which I tell you beforehand, just as I told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God”

22 “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control, against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lust.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”   

When I was in the fourth grade in church school I had a teacher by the name of David Shaw. I looked up to him as a very loving Spiritual man, and he spent time with us every morning in singing hymns and explaining them to us, telling us the meaning of the words. They still mean a lot to me as I sing them even today.
He explained to us the difference between a hymn and a gospel song.

Number 481 in the church hymnal is an example of a hymn, which is, all worshipers sing as a whole as one voice. 3rd person

Dear Lord and Father of mankind,
Forgive our feverish ways;
Re-clothe us in our rightful mind
In purer lives Thy service find,
In deeper reverence praise.

O Sabbath rest by Galilee,
O calm of hills above,
Where Jesus knelt to share with thee
The silence of eternity,
Interpreted by love.

Breathe thro’ the heats of our desire,
Thy coolness and Thy balm;
Let sense be dumb, let flesh retire,
Speak thro’ the earthquake, wind and fire,
O still small voice of calm.

Hymn number 321 is an example of a gospel song. 1st person

My Jesus I love Thee I know Thou art mine;
For Thee all the follies of  sin I resign;
My gracious Redeemer, my Savior art Thou;
If ever I loved The , my Jesus, ’tis now.


In mansions of glory and endless delight,
I’ll ever adore Thee in heaven so bright;
I’ll sing with the glitering crown on my brow,
If ever I loved Thee, my Jesus ‘tis now.

Let’s meet there and sing with the angels, ‘In mansions of  glory.’
Friend John

   

Larry Lyons

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2010, 10:44:05 AM »
Friend John, your posts are very helpful. Your explanation of the differences between a hymn and a gospel song is helpful in selecting songs for worship.  A definition of other types of songs that are in the Hymnal such as anthems would be helpful. There are probably more. Most members, including myself know very little about the various types of songs and what specific occasions they might be most appropriate for.

A man (PhD in music) who was a minister of music for a large church in another denomination was one of the presenters in a seminar series on worship given to Adventist churches several years ago. He commented that he noticed in looking through the index of our current hymnal that there are what seemed to him to be an inordinant number of songs with "I" in the title. He indicated that because of the "I" focus, these are usually not the best ones to use for corporate worship. He suggested that this be taken into account if we ever revise our hymnal.

This whole area of worship and music is poorly understood in our church, even in the selection from the hymnal of music for worship.

Mimi

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2010, 06:31:39 PM »
Colporteur and Tim's comments/questions can be viewed here:

http://remnant-online.com/smf/index.php?topic=11212.msg121421#new

Let us carry on with the principles of music.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2010, 01:56:35 PM »
Thank you so much Larry for your response, I hope to enlarge on thoughts about the Hymnal in later post. Your friend: John

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2010, 02:16:28 PM »
Principle #6  As children of God, we need to be listening to His music as we grow into His image.

Few showdowns in Bible history were as pivotal as the incident between Nebuchadnezzar, and the three Hebrew worthies on the Plain of Dura. There we fine three young men willing to stand, and even die, for what they believed rather than bow to the golden image when the music was played.

Their answer to the king in this hour of decision is instructive for all of us: “O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, and He will rescue us from your hand, O king. But even if He does not, we want you to know, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” (Daniel 3:16-18)

As “enlightened” Christians today, we like to think we would never bow down to a golden image. Yet today we have many idols, designer gods that bend to our personal wants, perspectives and personalities. Even music itself has become a god to many. It is an image they bow to even though it puts man’s image in place of God’s, thus taking away true worship.

Whether we realize it or not, we are standing on the musical Plain of Dura. Like the three Hebrew worthies so long ago, we have a decision to make, whether to stand or bow. And there are questions as we ponder this decision. They are difficult ones, but they must be asked if you are to remain standing, no matter how loud the music plays, on the Plain of Dura.

Who is your God?
Is he made in your image,
designed to satisfy your needs
without crossing your desires?

Does your god fulfill your wants
at the snap of a finger?
Is “he” a genie in a bottle
To be “called” at any time?

Is your god a “designer god”
planned to fit the mold you choose?
Or were you made in His image
Designed to glorify His name?

Are your heart’s desires met
As you do His precious will?
Is your god a “designer god”
planned to fit your own perspective?

Or is He the “Designer God “
Maker of the Universe
King of all creation and
Ruler of your heart?

In case you missed it, “designer gods” are fabricated from our feelings, baked in ovens of our desire, fired in the kiln of our imagination, a god worshiped for what he can do for us.

Such a concept of God is no less heathen than the golden image erected by Nebuchadnezzar on the Plain of Dura.

Does this make sense? What’s your thoughts?



Richard Myers

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2010, 04:02:44 PM »
As “enlightened” Christians today, we like to think we would never bow down to a golden image. Yet today we have many idols, designer gods that bend to our personal wants, perspectives and personalities. Even music itself has become a god to many.

Amen!!  I love hymns!!! They express my thoughts and feelings toward God. But, they also remind me of the Truth as it is in Jesus. They preach a sermon accompanied by beautiful heavenly music.

But, to some, they want to place music in a different light. They want to entertain, they want to lift up people, exalt the music, and modify worship. They want to make music a god, a designer god that pleases self.

Thank you, Friend John, for the thoughts.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Mimi

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2010, 08:16:02 PM »
I am reminded also of the golden calf effect.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Elder John Thurber

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Re: 27 Principles of Music
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2010, 02:55:53 PM »
Yes, Yes, Brother Richard and Sister Sybil you both hit the nail right on the head. Thank both very much. Here is the second part of the Plain of Dura, which continues from the first.

Principle #7 God is looking for Christians who will stand “on the Plain of Dura,”  refusing to succumb to Satan’s temptations, bow down to his image, or listen to his music.
   If your God:
   * stands idly by while you cheat on your business
   * smiles benignly at teenage foolishness
   * laughs at your lurid remarks
   * makes excuses for x-rated movies
   * pats you on the back as you contemplate an affair
   * looks the other way when you indulge in destroying your body with alcohol, drugs or poor diet
   * allows you to abuse your wife
   * makes no demands, asks no favors, and closes no doors to worldly desires.
Then your god is a ‘designer god,’ a heathen god fabricated by your own feelings and conditioned by culture. The fact that you call him God or even Jesus, makes Him no different than a statue on the Plain of Dura.

So please, don’t accept designer doctrines, fabricated in the New Age laboratories of our heathen society. Don’t play church with a religion made in your own image that makes no demands on your own life. Such religion bears no resemblance to the religion of Jesus Christ, for He told us not to divorce, judge others, swear or defend yourself in court. Instead, we are admonished to turn the other cheek, give to those who ask, love our enemies and resist evil persons.

This is no mealy-mouthed religion we’re talking about here, a designer religion that scratches your back when you turn in your tithe. This is a call to heroism.  It is a counter-culture movement that cannot and will not tolerate ’designer gods’ fabricated in the moral furnace of Hollywood.

With the three Hebrew children, true Christians will tell the kings of this world that even if our God does not save us, we want you to know, O king that “we will not serve your false gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.”

In other words, we will not bow down to your counterfeits whether they involve false worship, a false day of worship, an unhealthy diet or no diet at all.  And we will not listen to your music.“

   Standing by a purpose true,
   Heading God’s command,
   Honor them the faithful few,
   All hail to Daniel’s band!

   Dare to be a Daniel,
   Dare to stand alone!
   Dare to have a purpose firm!
   Dare to make it known.
   P.P. Bliss

* Most of these thoughts were taken from a sermon by Dr. Gordon Bietz, at a men’s retreat in the Michigan Conference.