Author Topic: "We Glory in Tribulations"  (Read 3571 times)

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Richard Myers

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« on: March 24, 2001, 07:14:00 AM »
"And not only so, but we glory in tribulations..."<P>Brother David Battler has requested this topic. It is one that we all will come to understand by experience as we "abide in Christ." It is hard to be thankful for our great sorrows. The great example in the Bible is the suffering of our Lord and Saviour, but there are many others. Let us take time here to look more closely at some of these experiences. We will gain much faith as we learn of the blessings to be had in our tribulations.<P>Let me start by looking at one example of suffering and then ask one question.  The Book of Job is a mystery to many new Christians just as is the request by God for Abraham to sacrifice his son. Why would God "allow" Satan to kill all of Job's children and then to make Job sick? It is a blessing to study the book and to come to understand that Job was blessed with more than he had in the beginning after his experience. "So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning."<P>My question: What is to be gained by tribulation in a person's life?<P>In His love and grace,    Richard
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DavidTBattler

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2001, 01:29:00 AM »
Richard

I am looking forward to examining the examples in Scripture that you have mentioned.

I wrote out a few thoughts about this topic that I would like to see input on.     :)

“Glory In Our Tribulations.”

People would be absolutely shocked if they knew the extent of what I have lived through in my short, 46 years.     :)

Especially have the last few been hard on me.
I have gotten to the point where I have shaken a fist at God, and told Him to leave me alone!  I tried to reject the idea that something good can come out of our tribulations, or, that we could "glory in our tribulations."

I am quite able in sifting through all the theology behind various Bible characters, and how they gloried in their particular tribulations; but sometimes, none of it makes sense, when you yourself are under assault...Sometimes, your trials blind you.

I would challenge anyone following this thread, to literally blindfold yourself, and go through , try to go through all the familiar territory, in your own home, where you have walked before, many times.

How did things change, when you put the blind-fold on?

I would like to submit that our trials can blindfold us in such a way, and bring about disturbing changes to even familiar territory, be it in our home, in our church, or in our belief system.

My experiences, and studies, tell me that the great controversy theme, is much deeper than a simple opposition to the Christian.

Ellen White alludes to this theme of familiar territory being wickedly, severely, and traumatically changed, by a very pointed question:

"I ask you, is the kingdom of God within you?  God's people are to be minutemen, always ready, always composed in Jesus Christ.  The time is now come, when one moment, we may be on solid earth, the next, the earth may be heaving beneath our feet.  Earthquakes will take place where least expected."  (TM 421).

The great controversy is more than mere opposition to a believer; it is a last ditch, desperate effort to change the believer in God, to an unbeliever in God.  Satan wants to change even familiar territory, that has always been our comfort zone, and our Source of strength, to sour grapes, and pots on thistles.

The only things Satan wants from you is your testimony, your marriage, and your church.  Every single trial is an attempt to take one or more of these things from God’s people.  How successful is he?  Look around you a bit for the answer.

The very fact that I am still alive and writing this speaks well to the fact that “The same angel who visited Sodom is sounding the note of warning: ‘Escape for thy life!’...Even after the saints are sealed with the seal of the living God; His elect will have trials individually.  Personal afflictions will come; but THE FURNACE IS CLOSELY WATCHED by an eye that will not suffer the gold to be consumed.”  (TM  446).

(I must be solid gold the way I am frying in the furnace these days!    :) ).

My little six year old Joseph has explained glorying in our trials, the best way I have heard yet.  What he said gave me great comfort...He has no idea of many of my trials; or how positively his “message” has affected me.

During family worship this past Sabbath, to open the Sabbath; I asked each one in the family to share a testimony about “something good,” from the past week.  When it was his turn, Joseph started to tell us about how he was riding his bike, and how he had suddenly crashed down onto the pavement.

In his words, “I went right over the handle bars, and fell onto the ground!”  Then he stopped his story there, folded his little hands, and sat there with a very contented look on his face.

I said to myself quickly, “Why did he just stop there?  What does he mean by this story?  Why is this “a good thing?”  So, I asked my son: “Why are you telling us this story Joseph?  I thought that we were each supposed to tell a story about something good that God has done?”

Joseph replied in a familiar, laughing tone of triumph: “Oh!  But Dad! God was with me when I fell!  Do you know Dad...I didn’t even hurt myself when I fell!  God must have held me up, and I’m not even hurt!”

I believe that God holds each one of us, when we fall, when we sin, when we are attacked.  I believe that it is time for Seventh day Adventists to let go of some familiar territory.  

To let God’s love, in our adversities, blindfold us to something very familiar.  We need to let go of all the ideas about God which hold us in bondage to some sort of despotic power that we are never good enough for.  We need to let God love us so that we are blinded to a wrong view of Him.  

Ask yourself seriously: why is my little son so blinded to any negative view of God?  I would like to suggest that it is for the exact same reason that Abraham agreed to do what God said to do with his son, and the knife.

“When brought into trial, we are not to fret and complain.  We should not fret and rebel, and worry ourselves out of the hands of Christ.  We are to humble the soul before God.  (Jam.4:10).  

The ways of the Lord are [always] obscure to [those who desire] to see things in a light that is pleasing to [themselves].  [God’s ways always] appear dark and joyless to our human nature, [and perceptions].”  (DA 300).  

“For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is LIFE AND PEACE.”  (Rom.8:6).  “The natural [person] receiveth not the things the Spirit of God...for [it is] foolishness unto [them]: neither can [they] know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”  (1 Cor.2:14).

So, how do I glory in tribulations?  Like my little one said:  “God must have held me up!”  Is that not something to glory in?

One night, I had a really profound dream.  In my dream, I saw myself walking along the sandy beach with the Lord.  For some reason; while we walked, I could see flashing across the sky, various scenes from my life.

For each scene, I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand: One set belonging to me; and the other to the Lord.  As the last, heart-aching scene of my life flashed before me, I looked back at all the many footprints in the sand...I noticed that quite a few times, along the path of my life, that there was only one set of footprints.  I also noticed that during these times, I was experiencing some of the very lowest and saddest times of my life.  That really bothered me.  I questioned the Lord about it.

“Lord: You said, that once I decided to follow You, that You would walk with me, all the way.  But, I have noticed that during the most troublesome times of my life, that there is only one set of footprints.  Lord, I don’t understand why...Why, when I needed You the most, You would leave me to fight it out alone.”

The Lord replied: “David, my child...my precious child...I love you...and I would never think of leaving you all alone.  During your times of trials and sufferings, when you see only one set of footprints; it was then that I carried you.”

Isaiah 46:4  And even to your old age I am he; and even to [your grey] hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you.

Is this not something to glory in?

But now for a question.  Something that upsets all the familiar territory and theology.  How, or why can we glory in the fact that we are going to die someday?  Or that someone we love has already died?  How can we possibly glory in that?

What about the time I was driving my 53 foot tractor & trailer down the road, and suddenly, at an intersection just ahead, a pick up truck was sandwiched between two semi trucks...someone ran a red light...someone was racing...what was left of the guy in the pickup truck had to be taken to the forensic lab to be removed from the vehicle.  

All I remember, is what I saw on the pavement.  How do we glory in these things?  All I could do was sit in the truck and cry till the road was opened up again.  I still don’t know how to glory in that one, and a few other things that happened to me more personally; but just as tragic.

Some things seem to blindfold us, even in familiar territory.  I find myself wondering: "When is the church going to let God love them?  I mean, really love them?     :)


------------------
"...We believe that through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved..."  (Acts 15:11).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler

[This message has been edited by DavidTBattler (edited 03-26-2001).]


Richard Myers

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2001, 09:18:00 PM »
Thank you for sharing, Brother David. It is good to have a son that can see the "Unseen".   :)

Now, his joy at not being hurt is called being thankful for the good that he realized, but how about those times as you have mentioned where we don't see the good?  Well, there are a number of answers, but I am waiting for somone to tell me what this verse we are looking at means in its context, which reveals the truth of the matter.   :) I love the Bible! Come let us reason together, says our God!   :) We may have peace that passes all understanding in the middle of the darkest night.

Richard

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DavidTBattler

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2001, 11:52:00 PM »
Hello Richard,

I am enclosing a few preliminary notes I have made on this subject, as I have been studying it...Hopefully, your above question will begin to be answered with this:

Tribulation


Rom.5

“1  Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2  By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3  And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4  And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.”

“Glory”  meaning to boast – with or without reason

“Tribulation” meaning

2347 yliqiv thlipsis thlip’-sis

from 2346; TDNT-3:139,334; n f

AV-tribulation 21, affliction 17, trouble 3, anguish 1, persecution 1, burdened 1, to be afflicted + 1519 1; 45

1) a pressing, pressing together, pressure
2) metaph. oppression, affliction, tribulation, distress, straits

Easton’s

“Tribulation

Trouble or affiiction of any kind #De 4:30 Mt 13:21 2Co 7:4 In #Ro 2:9 "tribulation and anguish" are the penal sufferings that shall overtake the wicked. In #Mt 24:21,29 the word denotes the calamities that were to attend the destruction of Jerusalem. “

In Romans 5:3, Paul seems to be explaining how God’s plan of righteousness, by faith, in the helpless human agent, will bring to the believer peace and joy, during times of prosperity, and times of distress and sorrows.

Paul is telling us how the Hope of future glory, and the endurance of present trouble, go hand in hand, in the believer’s heart and life.  It appears that Jesus  too noted this fact when He said: “These things have I spoken to you, that IN ME, ye might have peace.  In the world, ye shall have tribulation: Be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”  (Jo.16:33).


“Beloved, think it not strange, concerning the fiery trial which is to try you; as though some strange thing happened unto you: but rejoice, in as much as you are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that when His glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also, with exceeding joy.”  (1 Pet.4:12-13).

Why would Paul say this?  Is it possible to think this way about our trials, and to be glad in the midst of them, as this text seems to suggest?

We don’t always consider how the sanctification that we so earnestly desire, and for which we pray for so fervently, is brought about by the Truth, (Jo.8:32), and by the providence of God.  (Phil.4:11); and in a manner in which we least expect.  (Isa.55:11-12).

When we look for joy; behold, there is sorrow.  When we expect peace; we often have distrust, and doubt; because we find ourselves plunged into trials that we can’t seem to avoid, no matter what we do or don’t do; and I sometimes feel so trapped as though certain of these trials that I can never escape, in my own strength, and wisdom.

It has been my personal experience, that in these very trials I find most difficult, I am  simply experiencing answers to my prayers.  In order for me to be purified, the fire of affliction, may indeed kindle upon me; so  that, if I should choose, my will be brought into conformity to the will of God, ( Phil.2:5),  in all the things that accompany my salvation.  (Heb.6:9).  

Sometimes, God sees it best to put me under a course of discipline, which is essential for me, before I would be able to approach being a fit subject for the various blessings that I crave so much.  That’s why, as a Christian, I can say that “all things do indeed, work together for good…”  (Rom.8:28).  Really, when I think about it for long, I shouldn’t become so discouraged, till I give way to doubt, and think that my prayers are not noticed by God.  (1 Kings 8:28,  Ps.42:8, Ps.66:19-20, 69:13,  1 Chron.28:9).

We need to rely more securely on Christ, , and to leave our case with God to answer in His own way…”He hath made all things beautiful, in His time.”  (Eccl. 3:11).  When has God ever promised that He would bestow any of His blessings, in any particular manner that we have spelled out to Him?  God’s plans are always the best, although we may not always discern them.

Perfection of Christian character can only be attained through labor, conflict, and self denial.  Why would we need patience, or faith, or wisdom, if nothing bad ever happened to us?  If no challenges ever came along?  I know that, personally, I’m not in the habit of counting on this process of trial and affliction; nor do I like to consider the painful, and sometimes protracted process of purifying necessary for me, in order that I may be conformed to the image of Christ…”That we may be one,” is the watchword for Christians, in God’s Remnant Church.

I know that God often answers my prayers in ways that I least expect.  He will bring me into positions that I find the most trying, to reveal what is really in my heart.  “Every man’s work shall  be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is.”  (1 Cor.3:13).

To further the development of the Christian graces, God will place me in circumstances, that will require increased exertions on my part, to keep my faith in lively exercise.  “But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of God.”  (2 Pet.3:18).

"And [David T Battler] called on the God of Israel, saying: 'O that Thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that Thine hand might be with me, and that Thou wouldest keep me from the evil, that it may not grieve me!" (1 Chron.4:10).

Recently,  I had to go into a deep, dark valley. I was on two physician described drugs, (very poweful ones), for almost two years, and I decided that God was going to be the one to do what these drugs are purported to do.

The above Scripture was my constant prayer.

Today, it is my birthday; I am writing with a clear mind, and I am drug free!  I am praising the Lord all the way - even though the last few weeks has been tough; there has been a signal victory in Jesus here.

I know that a friend, brother Richard,  has been praying for me; and if anyone else was, I thank you for your prayers.

If anyone reading this is currently having a drug problem; know that there is victory in Jesus!

But you must give YOURSELF completely over to Him; that He might take charge of those dark recesses of the mind, which create the need for drugs of many kinds.

And, isn't it fitting that the above Scripture I quoted ends thus:

"And God granted [David T Battler] that which he requested."

Can we say "Amen!" loud enough people!

Let us, as a people, always bear in mind, how inestimably precious are the gifts of God, the graces of His Spirit; and we will never shrink from the trying, testing process, no matter how painful, or humiliating it may be to us.

“We must gather about the cross.  (Gal.6:14).  Christ, and Him crucified, should be the theme of contemplation, of conversation, and of our most joyful emotion.  

We should keep in our thoughts, every blessing we receive from God, and when we realize His great love, we should be willing to trust everything to the hand that was nailed to the cross, for us.  “Ye who are sometimes afar off, are made near by the blood of Christ.”  (Eph.2:13).

If only Christians would associate together, speaking to each other the precious Truth of the Love of God, then, their own hearts would be refreshed; and they would bless one another, fulfilling the prayer of Christ, “that they may all be one;”  refreshing one another with the love of God.  (Jo.8:32, Isa.28:12, Acts 3:19).

We may be daily learning of our heavenly Father, gaining a fresh experience of His grace, and then we shall desire to speak of His love, and as we do this, our own hearts will be encouraged and warmed.  If we thought and talked more about Jesus, and much less of self and the devil, we should have far more of the Counsellor’s presence.  (Isa.9:6).  

It is worth noting that anytime the disciples of Jesus talk about Him…”Jesus Himself draws near.”  (Luke 24:13-15).   And, in His presence, there is fullness of joy.  (Isa.63:9, Ps.16:11).


God never wastes an experience.  The person who walks with God, always gets to their destination.

The title of my next post in this section will be “Struggle = Opportunity.”

------------------
"...We believe that through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved..."  (Acts 15:11).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler


Richard Myers

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2001, 09:34:00 AM »
Amen, Brother David. I pray your birthday was filled with the blessings that come from the realization that Jesus has become a real living Saviour in your life.

Your response to my question illustrates the answer that is given in the text that is being quoted for our topic. Let us follow the thought of God as it is expressed by the Apostle Paul in the verses that continue,  Romans 5:3-5. "And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."

Here we are given the answer as to why we ought to glory in our tribulation. Yes, it is painful at times, but we can rejoice knowing that it works not only for our good, and the good of those who are witnesses, but it gives honor and glory to our heavenly Father and His most righteous Son, our Saviour, Jesus Christ. It is His reward as we patiently abide in Him, reflecting His character to a world soon to perish. Even our death would work as seed to produce a rich harvest.

Let take a closer look at these verses that we might be grounded in the truth that will encourage us all as we walk with our Saviour in this sinful world.

In His love and grace,     Richard

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Dugald T Lewis MD

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2001, 07:24:00 PM »
Dear Brother David,

I rejoice with you and appreciate your testimony.

I Just wanted to add "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is
tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. James 1:12.


Your brother in Christ
Dugald


Richard Myers

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2001, 04:57:00 AM »
"Tribulation worketh patience."  How many of us need more patience....or do we make excuses for our sins? Are there times when you lose it? With the spouse, the kids, the dog? Or is it just your enemy that you sometimes reveal what is in your heart?

We need to have more patience, and I don't mean just to not get angry. I mean that God wants us to be His witnesses. He wants us to reveal His character in our lives in great tribulation. Then it is that attention of the world is drawn to Jesus in the persons of His people. His glory is to shine upon His church.  :)

Richard

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DavidTBattler

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2001, 09:12:00 AM »
Amen Richard!


Where then, is the persecution/tribulation?  Why is the church, relatively speaking, so at peace, and undisturbed by interference?  Why can everyone basically do religion whatever way they want?

I thought that the Bible says: "All who are godly, in Christ Jesus, SHALL SUFFER persecution."

I'm not so sure I like that promise; but it makes some sense in light of what you have said about "tribulation worketh patience."

But, I am left with the question: "Where is the persecution?"

------------------
"...We believe that through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved..."  (Acts 15:11).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler


Dugald T Lewis MD

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2001, 07:46:00 PM »
Dear Brother David,

One answer to your question is that when we totally have surrendered to Jesus, we become empowered by the Holy Spirit. The fires of affliction will come simply to refine us. We will only overcome by a daily surrender to Christ.

The lack of persecution may be indicative of a lack of surrendered lives.

Sincerely
Dugald


Richard Myers

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2001, 09:43:00 PM »
Persecution comes in many shapes and sizes. Many are waiting for the Sunday laws, but I tell you that many are in great distress today! Many have suffered persecution all along.  Yes, even in the developed nations, God's people are being persecuted.

Sometimes it is the family, sometimes in the neighborhood, and sometimes in the church. God did not say we would be persecuted continually. I think that many are not ready for persecution, because they are not converted. I think that some have been converted but don't stay converted.

Hope this helps a little, Brother David. The text was not addressing "persecution" as much as trials of all kinds. You know how close we can draw to Jesus in the midst of our afflictions. They need not be persecution.

Richard

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Richard Myers

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2001, 06:25:00 AM »
As we study our Bibles and see the character that God has developed in many Christians through time, we ought not be surprised to find that they had great trials. Daniel, Noah, Enoch, Job, David, Paul, John the Baptist and John the beloved are just a few.

Are we ready to suffer for Jesus? Do we want a character like Jesus'? Yes, we do. Then, let us not think it strange when fiery trials come.

Richard

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jherbertthompson

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2001, 04:56:00 PM »
Brother's and Sister's.  I recently heard a story I think fits into this dialog...


Several years ago a family, traveling through the mid-west, were hit head on by an on-coming car.  Both mother and father were thrown clear of the car with few or no injury.

However, their four children were trapped, and subsequently burned alive in the vehicle. Reporter's asked the couple in what way they might eventually come to terms with this horror.  The father answered with what, to me, is the most trusting and relational gospel I've heard...

He said in effect, that they might never understand the *why's and wherefores* in terms of their loss.  He did, however believe that his God was in *controll* and that no matter what happens, we can trust that He knows best.

Not really comfortable speaking of the matter, I choose now to give my own personal testimony regarding a God who *knows best, and is in charge*...

After my youngest daughter was born, we noted almost immediately that there was something very wrong with her...She had the obvious symptoms of jaundice, and even after repeated treatment just did not get any better...

It so happened that the transplant team from Pittsburgh Children's Hospital were making the rounds to their sister facilities around the nation, and Dr. Starzel was with his team in Davis for lectures.  My then wife [2nd], begged for a interview which she finally got, and Dr. Starzel agreed to, on further examination, let her go to Pittsburgh for work-up on a liver transplant...She was at the first transplant the youngest patient ever transplanted...

The first transplant failed; and, after a time so did the second.  We had some legal problems in the intrim, but were finally allowed to go home with her to California in the late '80's...Some months later we pulled *the plug*, and that was that.

Ten years later, and on several occasions since I spoke to parents, spouses, and sibblings regarding the *pulling of the plug*.  This is the most horrindious decision one must make regarding a love one; but, telling my story, and telling people that indeed one *has the "right" to life*, it was my personal belief that one also has a *right to a certain "quality" of life*...

You may or may not agree with my position.  However, from my seat, God used an exceptionally bad experience in my life to comfort other's who were in like situations, and had no post or beam upon which to make their decision...I truely believe that God is in absolute control.  That no matter what things look like, we may trust Him no matter what.  And, despite circumstances and situations, God must allow the *consequence* of sinful flesh to play it's role in our lives...BAD things do happen to GOOD people!

Your brother in Christ.


Liane H

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2001, 07:57:00 PM »
Dear Brother Herbert:

Thank you for sharing your story of your daughter. She lives on in her own special way in the memory of her life and death through you so that others can also come to terms with these sad situations. Keep telling it.

Bio-ethics, is one of the most difficult areas of our world today. What to do? What is life and what is not life? What is quality and when should it end? No person can answer that for another. Each has to step into it with prayer, knowledge and faith.

My only real experience was through my sister and her dear friend who died last year from cancer. She was only 42 years old with two young children. My sister and I talked about her many times on the phone and she would ask me, what would I do.

Working in the Hospice program for over a year also gave me some insight into the choices that each family had to make as the time came near to death. I could see from the notes the struggle to not want to let go of the loved one, yet they did not want them to suffer any longer as well.    

Nor is it my place to judge you of the rightness or wrongness of what you did. I was not there, so therefore I cannot have anything to say regarding it. The important issue, are you o.k. with it? If you are, that is what is important.

Liane

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

jherbertthompson

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2001, 02:35:00 PM »
Liane.  I honestly appreciate you comment.  I also have worked in Hospice programs in several states.  I have worked in the capacity of a Home Health Provider...Not all can handle or process for themselves their grief, anger, and loneliness, etc.  And, it is certainly rewarding to know that one has, at least in a small way, given hope to the hopeless...


The issue here, as I comprehend it, is not just how OT and NT personalities *processed* their trials or tribulation...Taking Job for instance...Surely we can all agree that his *theology* was very wrong...Yet in the final analysis, God said of him [Job]; "he [Job] has said of me what is right".  :)  What a wonderful thing to say about anyone...

Then, we might look also at the three young men thrown into the fiery furnace.  Nebuchadnezzar, having seen *one who appeard as the Son of God*, released the boys:  But look at his [Nebuchadnezzar's] theology:  His *heart* was not changed by the *knowledge of the Living God*; on the contrary, he merely changed god's -- informing all in his kingdom that any one who was to say anything arbitrary of demeaning of the boy's God, would suffer the same consequences as they had...And, probably with out the relief. :)

Later, however, Nebuchadnezzar, who had been feeding in the fields as if he were a common animal; healed from his insanity says what?
And, he really has a change of heart!  The God of Heaven which Daniel worships is a *the* only *true* God...It is He who makes and breaks kingdoms and powers upon the earth...etc...Here, we see that through a real trial in his life, Nebuchadnezzar has a *true* change of heart...

We might go on here...But I'll give it a rest.

Your brother in Christ.  :)


Richard Myers

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We Glory in Tribulations
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2009, 08:23:45 PM »
Amen! Our trials are God's workmen to bring us to Christ!!  Most of us respond to pain.
I'm going home SOON, come along!!

JimB

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"We Glory in Tribulation"
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2009, 02:36:16 PM »
In some ways it is still seems odd to me that Paul would say in Romans 5:3 that we glory in tribulations. No one likes going through hardships so how can we glory in them? I don't know if this is the full answer but I believe we can give God glory by how we respond to tribulations and to those who are seemingly causing them. Paul also says that we have peace with God when we are justified. And it's only through this peace that we can be patient among tribulations. It's a wonderful thing to be at peace with God! Here is the full context of what Paul said since he said it better than I can...

Rom 5:1  Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2  By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4  And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Rom 5:5  And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.


Mrs. White makes what seems to be even a stranger statement in the DA p. 528. She says that we will look back with thankfulness at our darkest parts of our journey. It seems like and odd thing to say. But if these trials and tribulations help get us ready for Heaven shouldn't we be thankful for them? The answer is "yes" but during the trying times it is sometimes hard to see past the pain and hurt. Here is the statement from DA...

To all who are reaching out to feel the guiding hand of God, the moment of greatest discouragement is the time when divine help is nearest. They will look back with thankfulness upon the darkest part of their way. "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly," 2 Peter 2:9. From every temptation and every trial He will bring them forth with firmer faith and a richer experience.  {DA 528.3}

Mimi

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Re: "We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2009, 10:38:18 PM »
Without peace and hope in the knowledge that God knows what He is doing for our own good, this is a difficult thing to swallow. I know He does it to open our eyes to certain circumstances or events, even to the hidden agendas of certain people. And without knowing God is nearest during that darkest trial to buttress us up, to form us, to refine us, and to build faith, it would be very easy to be left without any hope. Many Christians, in name only, fail to hold up. Do you think this is why God sends trials, to see who will stand and who won't?

It seems we need to get a tad worried and examine ourselves if life goes along all too smoothly. Something is not as it should be if that is the case. 
Isaiah 1:17  Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

JimB

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"We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2010, 09:23:18 AM »
There may be another reason why are we permitted to go through difficulties. Yes, they help us shed unsightly character traits but what about helping others? When dealing with other people it's easier to have compassion on those who are going through the same or similar difficult circumstances. Take a look at this...

And those who are themselves "compassed with infirmity" should be able to "have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way." Heb. 5:2. Having been in peril themselves, they are acquainted with the dangers and difficulties of the way, and for this reason are called to reach out for others in like peril. There are souls perplexed with doubt, burdened with infirmities, weak in faith, and unable to grasp the Unseen; but a friend whom they can see, coming to them in Christ's stead, can be a connecting link to fasten their trembling faith upon Christ.  {DA 297.2}

Mimi

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Re: "We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2010, 09:33:26 AM »
Whew! Amen and amen!

Just this morning a kitchen table conversation was upon this very topic. It not only brings out utmost compassion and Christian sympathy like nothing else can, it helps us take the focus off of our own trials, enabling us to clearly view what matters in life. We are not an island. Nothing we do happens in a vacuum. We have been placed where we are for very specific lessons to obtain character development. God has His tools and in turn, we are given opportunities upon opportunities to help as we have been helped.

Isaiah 1:17  Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

JimB

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Re: "We Glory in Tribulations"
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2010, 05:45:27 PM »
To live such a life, to exert such an influence, costs at every step effort, self-sacrifice, discipline. It is because they do not understand this that many are so easily discouraged in the Christian life. Many who sincerely consecrate their lives to God's service are surprised and disappointed to find themselves, as never before, confronted by obstacles and beset by trials and perplexities. They pray for Christlikeness of character, for a fitness for the Lord's work, and they are placed in circumstances that seem to call forth all the evil of their nature. Faults are revealed of which they did not even suspect the existence. Like Israel of old they question, "If God is leading us, why do all these things come upon us?"
                                                                           471
     It is because God is leading them that these things come upon them. Trials and obstacles are the Lord's chosen methods of discipline and His appointed conditions of success. He who reads the hearts of men knows their characters better than they themselves know them. He sees that some have powers and susceptibilities which, rightly directed, might be used in the advancement of His work. In His providence He brings these persons into different positions and varied circumstances that they may discover in their character the defects which have been concealed from their own knowledge. He gives them opportunity to correct these defects and to fit themselves for His service. Often He permits the fires of affliction to assail them that they may be purified.  {MH 471.1} 


I find comfort in this counsel. However, I have a question. Is there a difference between the trials that God brings upon us and trials that we bring upon ourselves by own mistakes?