Author Topic: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"  (Read 1943 times)

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Dora

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"By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« on: June 09, 2012, 05:18:53 PM »
Brother Richard, I read in another thread that you are closing this study on "King of Kings." I hope you will not. Yes, I have been slow in reading or posting here, but recently, I have been pointed to some very important truths, and am studying the character of Christ in both the old and new testaments, and trying to gain more understanding. I have come to believe that if we do not know Christ, what He is really like, (and in the knowing, we know the Father) there is no way we can have that transformation of character we need. No, not just need, but it is imperative if we are to live with Heavenly beings.

It is only as we get to know, admire and love someone, that we will desire to be like them. We do not need to emulate man, although we can see some Christ like qualities in His dedicated people, but those qualities should only point us to Jesus.

I had already been studying more in depth about Christ, and a prayer seminar at camp meeting done by Pastor Pavel Goia of the Lexington, KY church showed me I need to know Him even much better! I want to love Him more, so to love Him, I must know Him, I want to love the things He loves, so that I can be happy in Heaven and the earth made new. He will not take me where I am not happy, or where I am still looking behind at things of this world, as did Lot's wife. It comes as a shock to some people, but our characters (likes, desires, thoughts, etc.) are not what is changed "in the twinkling of an eye." Only our mortal bodies are changed, and our character is all we can take with us. It will not be changed at Jesus' coming, and so, if not changed before, we will not be ready to go. We must behold Him!! We must look and behold Him here, to be able to behold Him in all His glory~~!!
Dora

Richard Myers

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2012, 09:44:30 PM »
Amen!!  It is my prayer that one day this forum will be the most visited.  Thank you for your important post. It is indeed a spiritual and an intellectual truth that by beholding we become changed. The human mind gradually adapts itself to that which it is accustomed to love and reverence. There is another similar truth that many understand, we are what we eat.  Our body is made up of the food that we eat. So with the mind. What we feed it, is what it becomes. The mind is plastic  and  changes according to what we do with it.  We find this truth in one of the most important verses in the Bible. It tells us how to become saints while living in sinful flesh amid a dark and fallen world. "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."  2 Cor. 3:18.

And, there is another place that I would direct all  who are interested in becoming  faithful Christians. The Words and life of Chris.  He is not as hard to understand as the Apostle Paul. He kept matters simple. In John chapter three, we find Jesus telling Nicodemus he needs to be born again of His Spirit. After this shock, He did not leave Nicodemus ignorant of how that could  be done. Listen very carefully to Jesus and see if you can see 2 Cor. 3:18  in what Jesus says.

 3:14   And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 
 3:15   That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 
 3:16   For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 

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Dora

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2012, 06:45:47 AM »
Quote
Our body is made up of the food that we eat. So with the mind. What we feed it, is what it becomes. The mind is plastic  and  changes according to what we do with it.

To me, the above truth is one of the most important (if not the most) we can understand. I talk to some fellow church members, and they say they desire to be like Jesus, and then, I see/hear what they are feeding their minds, with fantasy, and worse, in books, TV and movies. I have done that in the distant past, and I do know how it affected me. But, it is not that our minds are to be a vacuum, but we are to fill them with things pertaining to Jesus. And, even as we work, we can meditate on His goodness and love.

No, we cannot really behold His glory, but we can behold His reflected glory, and as we spend time with Him, we will come to reflect His glory in a small way...Yes! we can lift up Jesus!! And, by beholding Him, we come to believe IN Him, and "by beholding, we are changed." What we "eat" spiritually is so important! To have healthy bodies we must eat good food, just so to have healthy, spiritual minds.
Dora

Richard Myers

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2012, 07:03:26 AM »
Amen!!

Let's look at His "glory" for a moment.

What does it mean to give glory to God?  "Fear God and give glory to Him."  We all ought to understand this, since we are giving this in the last warning message to a world soon to perish. To give glory to God is to reflect His character, for the glory of God is His character. We are to know of His character. It is to be our study for now and by God's grace, for eternity. If His character is His glory, then we can behold this in Scripture, in the Spirit of Prophecy, especially in The Desire of Ages, and in nature. The Holy Spirit opens our minds to His glory as we read or listen to His Words and His life. It is the glory of God to give. God wants to give His virtue to His children. He desires to see men and women reaching the highest standard; and when by faith they lay hold of the power of Christ, when they plead His unfailing promises, and claim them as their own, when with an importunity that will not be denied they seek for the power of the Holy Spirit, they will be made complete in Him.

What a God we serve!!
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Richard Myers

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2012, 08:31:38 PM »
Brother Richard, I read in another thread that you are closing this study on "King of Kings." I hope you will not. Yes, I have been slow in reading or posting here, but recently, I have been pointed to some very important truths, and am studying the character of Christ in both the old and new testaments, and trying to gain more understanding. I have come to believe that if we do not know Christ, what He is really like, (and in the knowing, we know the Father) there is no way we can have that transformation of character we need. No, not just need, but it is imperative if we are to live with Heavenly beings.

It is only as we get to know, admire and love someone, that we will desire to be like them. We do not need to emulate man, although we can see some Christ like qualities in His dedicated people, but those qualities should only point us to Jesus.

I had already been studying more in depth about Christ, and a prayer seminar at camp meeting done by Pastor Pavel Goia of the Lexington, KY church showed me I need to know Him even much better! I want to love Him more, so to love Him, I must know Him, I want to love the things He loves, so that I can be happy in Heaven and the earth made new. He will not take me where I am not happy, or where I am still looking behind at things of this world, as did Lot's wife. It comes as a shock to some people, but our characters (likes, desires, thoughts, etc.) are not what is changed "in the twinkling of an eye." Only our mortal bodies are changed, and our character is all we can take with us. It will not be changed at Jesus' coming, and so, if not changed before, we will not be ready to go. We must behold Him!! We must look and behold Him here, to be able to behold Him in all His glory~~!!

Amen!

The only reason I was considering closing this forum is because few are interested in it. :( 

You are so right about beholding Jesus.  Let look at one of the most important verses in the Bible. It is a well kept secret.  "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."  2 Cor 3:18.

This is not a maybe, it is not human wisdom, it is not a promise for Christians only, it is a promise for everyone. It is both an intellectual and a spiritual principle. The mind gradually adapts itself to what it is accustomed to love and reverence. And notice that it is by the working of the Holy Spirit that this is accomplished. It is He who leads us into all truth.

I'm going home SOON, come along!!

Dora

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2012, 09:38:50 PM »
At this time of the year, several Baptist churches in the area have what is called "Judgment House." Of course, I have not seen it, but have heard something of what it is like. In it, "Hell" is portrayed, and "the devil." (someone plays this part.) I suppose it is being shown that this (Hell) is where you will end up to be bar-b-cued for eternity if you do not manage to be "saved." So, they announce every night how many people go through this "Judgment House," and how many people get "saved" and how many have rededicated their lives.

I was raised in a Methodist church, and this sounds like what I heard preached for 23 years of my life...well, for 22 anyway, as we did not go there the year before my baptism.  Looking now at how God is portrayed, as an angry despot who wants to keep people alive (in some miraculous way) so they can burn through the ages, how did we ever see the love of God? Jesus said, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father." I can love and trust a Father God like that!
Dora

Richard Myers

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 05:57:43 AM »
Amen, Dora. How important that we study for ourselves instead of believing what someone else has said. We need to spend that thoughtful hour a day studying what Jesus said. His teaching is not hard. And by beholding Him, we shall be changed into His character.
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Mimi

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2012, 06:22:44 AM »
Dora, what a damnable teaching. Most every relative I have believes what you have written. What a horrendous mischaracterization of God.
Revlation 21:3 & 4  Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
 

Ed Sutton

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2012, 06:57:07 AM »
i would rather burn eternally, without ashes involved, than for a while with a pile of ashes being all that's left. 

Luke 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Walking with Jesus, and Father God, and The Holy Ghost, and Holy Angels    and our heart's burning within us as we share the mutual fire that sets us aglow from within.     BURN - YES, but in the heart and shine in the face,   ;D   ,    ashes   ---------- rather not. 
Greatful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10

Vicki

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2012, 07:54:08 PM »
When asked why so many people came to his services, John Wesley replied, "Get on fire for God and men will come and see you burn.
Bloom where you are planted.

Richard Myers

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2012, 09:38:57 PM »
This morning I was contemplating why we do the things we do when we do them. We all have made plans. I have a long list that can never be completed. I put one, two, or three circles in front of each item. The more circles the more pressing. When the task is completed, I put a check in the circle. If half done, I put one line through it.  But, how many times during the day do we do something that was not on our list? If you are like me, many times. Why? Because something comes up. A thought comes into our minds, a person says something, we get a phone call, we see something, we smell something, we feel something. All of these external forces cause our minds to think about the influence. Is this good or bad?  That was the lesson to learn this morning for me. It can be good, but also can be very bad.

We live in a fallen world surrounded by fallen human beings and fallen angels. Many are in a battle against God and His truth. Just look at what the world has to say about Angus Jones. It is a spiritual battle we must fight. Satan is on our track and wants to destroy us. He is real and he does not sleep.

We all have heard the truth that by beholding we become changed. But, we must take it more seriously. Every influence has its effect. How many times have you heard from the careless, not to be so concerned about what your child hears and sees?  That thought comes directly from the devil. It is his aim to influence our children to become what he is. And, he is winning the game with most young people. Listen to the music. Watch the television and movies. Look at their dress and listen to their words.

How about us? Do we realize that all through the day we are being influenced to do things? Things that we never planned to do, in response to what we behold. What are we to draw from this truth? How about the fact that often we place ourselves in the environment where we will see and hear the things we do. And so goes our life. In response to what we hear and see. Something to pray about, especially with our children. It is going to have long term consequences. Think of where you choose to live and the influences upon your family. Now, think of Lot and his family and where he chose to live.

Jesus has warned us to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and they were in the church.
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Mimi

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2012, 10:38:21 AM »
The situation you describe is a very difficult one, indeed, if I understand you correctly.

When hungry and tired, I am most vulnerable. It seems true for everyone. When stressed to accomplish those things I know I must, while in that condition, rational decisions can utterly escape me and I am fast cast down the rabbit hole trying to extinguish the latest fire. My concern is the fire, not the deadly location or direction the rabbit hole is leading me. Seven can be burning behind me, but it is the most current blaze that has my attention. Now who would better want a condition such as that for the Christian? The very one you named: Satan, the author of confusion.

Nehemiah could not come down when faced with things not on his list.

At the same time, our list must square with God's and we must be open to Him changing what is on it. So holy discernment is needed at all times. We are admonished to keep a prayer on our lips. It is my firm belief that as we mark off the last remaining days on earth, we will constantly be praying audible prayers. It will be that intense. For we will be beholding things no human eye should ever encounter and literally change who we are.     
Revlation 21:3 & 4  Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
 

Richard Myers

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2012, 12:17:40 PM »
There is a large difference between putting ourselves on Satan's ground versus being led by God and then having to witness things that are evil. My mind has been led to consider those things that we subject ourselves to that God would not have. And, not just ourselves, but others in our family. I think of what children are exposed to today that they need not be exposed to. This is where the difficulty really can be studied with great benefit. When we are in the world to be an influence for God, that is good, but to put children in the world before they are converted, is a different matter. Some react very strongly against protecting children by saying the children need to be exposed to the world.  And this is the point. There are lines to be drawn and the principle we are discussing is a major component in drawing that line. Parents need great wisdom from God and also His Spirit to be able to find that path that God has laid out for us and our families.
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Mimi

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2012, 01:10:45 PM »
Yes, Amen! I can now better see your line of thinking.
Revlation 21:3 & 4  Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
 

Peter L

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2013, 08:47:08 PM »
Because it is true that we are changed by beholding then it is important how we see Jesus because the picture we see of Jesus is the picture we are changed into.
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Richard Myers

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2013, 10:29:22 PM »
Good to see your posts, Peter!

Yes, we are changed by what we behold. So, it is important to read Scripture correctly when beholding Jesus. For example, God is a forgiving and loving God. He is also perfectly just and will not torture the wicked for eternity.

On the other hand, we may be wrong on this doctrine, but that does not necessarily mean that will be like a God who tortures the wicked for eternity.  The Holy Spirit resides in the hearts of all who are truly converted and they will manifest all of the fruits of His Spirit even if mistaken about that aspect of God's character. Praise God!  The fruits of His Spirit are supernatural.

In thinking on this apparent contradiction, how do we reconcile the two truths? Any ideas, Peter?
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Peter L

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Re: "By Beholding, we Become Changed"
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2013, 12:27:25 AM »
Good question. Those who are true to God and follow Him with a right heart, God will lead and make them like Christ. They hear His voice and they follow.
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.