Grape Vines

[Richard Myers]

A reminder. Grape vines are really neat! They give shade quickly. They don't take five years to produce fruit. And, you can get them started for free. Just start looking for someone with grape vines. It will be time to prune them soon. Get your sources marked and ask if you can have their prunings. The vines are easy to start and do not need grafting. Get three times as much as you need to insure that you have enough that produce. Some will die.  (see cuttings thread).

[Ed Sutton]

So then you mean american varities cuttings, that are resistant to grape diseases in the soil without needing a patent stock to graft on.

[Ed Sutton]

Two days ago I bought 1 high bush blueberry bush, and 2 Concord, 1 Mars Black Seedless, 1 Black Moukassa grape vines - RE the grapes any tips on planting, soil prep. - cultural preferences, ph needs, etc. ?     Do moles dislike garlic planted near stuff ?  We have persistant moles.

[Richard Myers]

Not sure about moles, but either a mole or a gopher ate my elephant ear garlic. He was polite or smart. I did not know that it was gone because he only ate the bulb, leaving the above ground portion in tact. One day I noticed that the plant was not straight up. It was leaning to one side. In amazement I went over to inspect my prize garlic. I gently lifted the plant out of the hole it sat in. No garlic!!

Sadly, it is war between these critters and me. Some plead for mercy, but I have none for vegetarians in my garden. I have even imported carnivores to keep them in check. I have grown to love the little creatures that eat the vegetarians.

[Ed Sutton]

I planted the blueberry bush, and 4 grapevines.  The grapes got manure, garden dirt, sand - well mixed in the holes, and blueberry got pine mulch, sand, garden dirt, chicken manure in the hole, and a wire enclosure around it.  Then all mulched with pine mulch, and the grapes staked , tied up, and wire enclosed, I was going to use chicken wire in the hole, but the gaps are too big to stop a mole, and savings are dwindling and hardware cloth is not cheap.

The AC was running high gear driving home after picking up the ten moist bags of manure .          and no .....no one was willing to ride with me to pick it up........wonder why  

I guess in the family I am the only one who grew up on a farm (only 6 yrs),  but got used to the smells.

Is the tap root on Concord - lighter color and lots of root hairs ?  If so I did not unfold it from the sleeve position  before planting woops .

[Sybil]

I am excited to see how your grapevines progress, Ed. I so love them but at present, I have only 1 and it is very old.

Re: gophers, I have found nothing except predator urine that repels them. Even the most vigilant cat cannot keep up with ridding me of those pesky critters. There are too numerous! 

[Ed Sutton]

Oh you mean - Dog, Wolf, Lion, Tiger,  pee           Let's see ----- yellow pages ------- local Vet's and Kennels and zoo's. 

Then there's the plant that used to be advertized under the name "gopher purge".  (If it really exists and works.)

Or Habanero juice drenched around the garden prerimeters.  The vita Mix will work for that one. 

Have to make sure no dogs in heat are used in the samples, or every canine romeo in the area will be digging up the garden.   

[Richard Myers]

Grape vines make a nice arbor for shade. I really like getting two for one. Shade and grapes!  In our backyard the trees are on the south side, so we get no shade except the north side of the house. So, we have planted a few trees, but they are small. So, I am looking for old pipe to build a support for the grape vines I started from cuttings.

Picture my lounge under the arbor on a hot afternoon with huge purple grapes hanging over my head! I think I will put in two!!    Just need to find some old pipe.

[Ed Sutton]

Have you ever considered heavy bamboo, instead of pipe ?

[Richard Myers]

That's an idea. How strong is it?  I am looking at quite a load of grapes!!!    I am thinking six by twenty five feet.  We don't have bamboo growing naturally in the area. How would you attach the overhead poles to the uprights?

[Ed Sutton]

Even though bamboo is quite strong, you would want 2+ inch thick canes or soak the 6 ft tall 1/2 inch stuff that is thought of as decorative and plat them together and dry till hard.

overhead bamboo canes would have to be pathfinder lashed to a cross bar on upright poles ,  or suspend a section of old chainlink fence across cross bars upon uprights (tall enough to let bunches hang down below the chain link and still be in picking and admiring range. 

Your outdoor recliner / lounge / rocker - under a canopy of chain link supported heavily laden well pruned grapes ripening large full bunches - complete with a well placed box fan - a nice picture indeed.

Consider making a specialty compost to mulch the grapes.  This guy built a system that fed his tomatoes and whole garden to larger than ordinary yields.  It might increase grape yields with pruning and good cultivation of the vines.     Google "Charles H. Wilber" tomatoes.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mr_chickenman/Tomatoes/worldrecord.html         

His books seems cheaper on Amazon.

[Ed Sutton]

from Sybil
I am excited to see how your grapevines progress, Ed. I so love them but at present, I have only 1 and it is very old.

If old, is it still healthy ?   What color grapes does it produce ?   If it is getting over grown and has a few branches to spare, maybe air layering a few branches would root some branches so you could plant them before autumn gets too cool ?

air-layering-1

air-layering-2

air-layering-3

I need to remove the wire cage from one of the concord vines tommorrow, it's growing through the wire and is still short enough not to top the 6 ft + stake.    

grafting pruning cloning - propagating links

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

In this case I would like to tongue in cheek paraphrase the country song 16th avenue.  "Bless the boys who make the noise on "UTUBE AVENUE"  

[Ed Sutton]

The Black Mousakka grape vine got it's wire cage removed, and the vines are making enough growth to need tying up the stake.  (at last) 

[Ed Sutton]

Went shopping friday for 4X4's and hardware and bags of powdered concrete mix,  planning on building the grape trellis's at last.

Then july 4th - happily sawing 4X4's and building the 4 - -  8 foot "T" shaped members of the arbor .   Dug one hole and concreted one of the 4 - "T" shaped uprights in place.  Even though the humidity was lower - took cool down & fluid breaks through out the day.

Sad note - took so long to get to a finishing spot - we missed getting to the fireworks in time.   

Hope to get the other three postholes dug, uprights set & aligned and concreted in to cure - tommorrow.  Fireworks would have been nice but I forgot to plan a schedule to stop in time, get ready, travel and be on time to the show.  I know I really disappointed Linda, and that's what I regret most of all.    If we travel on assignments and come back to Nashville, I hope the grapes yield a good first year crop, fall of 2011 and encourage her.

[Vicki]

Sad note - took so long to get to a finishing spot - we missed getting to the fireworks in time.   

  sad indeed. We had so much fun at the house we were at that we left late & missed the beginning of the fireworks. Well, we saw them from the roadside so parked at a great spot to watch.

I forgot to water our grapevine last fall in the midst of a canning frenzy. This spring I saw one leaf & papmpered the thing - the leaf died.  After weeks I gave up hope on the thing. About a week later it sprouted a new, glorious vine with huge leaves.  I have much to learn about grapevines. I prefer the unknown vine growing rapidly up the bakersrack I stuck at the garden gate to hold flowerpots & handtools. It has blossoms on it for the 1st time & I can mostly ignore it. Problem is, nothing to eat on it. I must learn more about grapevines.

[Sybil]

I think my very old grapevine died. It is the 5th of July and not one leaf. Last year the Magpies kept nipping them as they came out but this year, nothing! Maybe I should not have moved it last year. 

[Ed Sutton]

scratch a branch and if the cambium layer is not green, but brown - it's dead.  then scratch a tiny spot on another branch, and on till either you find it's all dead or just the top.  If necessary  dig and check the roots .   You did not replant it where the ground looks white like snow ?  ?      Alkaline salts.  

what variety was it ?

[Sybil]

It's not only brown, but dark brown. It is in good soil. I transplanted it last year in early spring and it leafed out in that location. The winter may have taken its toll. Variety? No clue. The sad thing about all this is: it was in my step-daughter's yard and I moved it to take care of it until she moves here permanently. So it appears I truly messed up and will have to replace it.

[Ed Sutton]

Are the roots ok ?   Some soils have grape diseases ,  and it could have been running out of gas before being transplanted.  Maybe it's safer to take cuttings and root them as emergency backups.


Hows the hoophouse going ?  Still planning or started building yet ?

[Ed Sutton]

www.     nutritionresearchcenter.org/healthnews/do-eat-grape-seeds/    ( I put a space between the www. and the rest of the url to break the hyperlink - Ed )


Grape seed
Overview:
Grapes (Vitis vinifera) have been heralded for their medicinal and nutritional value for thousands of years. Egyptians ate grapes at least 6,000 years ago, and several ancient Greek philosophers praised the healing power of grapes -- usually in the form of wine. European folk healers made an ointment from the sap of grapevines to treat skin and eye diseases. Grape leaves were used to stop bleeding, inflammation, and pain, such as the kind brought on by hemorrhoids. Unripe grapes were used to treat sore throats and dried grapes (raisins) were used for constipation and thirst. Round, ripe, sweet grapes were used to treat a range of health problems including cancer, cholera, smallpox, nausea, eye infections, and skin, kidney, and liver diseases.

But grapes -- or the chemicals within them, especially oligomeric proanthocyanidin complexes (OPCs) -- have been touted as powerful antioxidants. Some people believe they could help treat a number of conditions, from heart disease to cancer to aging skin, although scientific evidence is mostly lacking for those conditions. However, there is good evidence that grape seed extract can help treat chronic venous insufficiency and edema.

A study of healthy volunteers found that taking grape seed extract did substantially increase levels of antioxidants in their blood. Antioxidants are substances that destroy free radicals -- harmful compounds in the body that damage DNA (genetic material) and even cause cell death. Free radicals are believed to contribute to aging as well as the development of a number of health problems, including heart disease and cancer.

Plant Description:
Grapes are native to Asia near the Caspian Sea, but they were brought to North America and Europe around the 1600s. This plant's climbing vine has large, jagged leaves, and its stem bark tends to peel. The grapes may be green, red, or purple.

What's It Made Of?:
Vitamin E, flavonoids, linoleic acid, and OPCs are highly concentrated in grape seeds. These compounds can also be found in lower concentrations in the skin of the grape. OPCs are also found in grape juice and wine, but in lower concentrations. Resveratrol is another of grape's compounds which is related to OPCs and found mainly in the skins. Resveratrol has become very popular as an antioxidant and is being studied in connection with a variety of diseases.

Medicinal Uses and Indications:
Today, standardized extracts of grape seed may be used to treat a range of health problems related to free radical damage, including heart disease, diabetes, and cancer. Some studies -- mostly in animals -- support these uses.

Flavonoids found in red wine may help to protect the heart by lowering "bad" LDL cholesterol. The so-called "French paradox" is the belief that drinking wine protects people living in France from developing heart disease at the high rates seen in people living in the United States. So far, however, there is no clear evidence that taking grape seed extract helps reduce heart disease. Some researchers speculate that it may the alcohol in the wine, and not the flavonoids, that could be responsible for any healthful effects. Others think it could be the combination of alcohol and flavonoids.

Drinking alcohol to protect against heart disease is not advocated by the American Heart Association and other organizations because of the potential for addiction and other serious problems, such as car accidents and the increased risk of hypertension, liver disease, breast cancer, and weight gain. If you do drink red wine, you should have no more than 2 glasses (20 g ethanol) per day if you are a man, and no more than one if you are a woman.

Chronic venous insufficiency
In chronic venous insufficiency, blood pools in the legs, causing pain, swelling, fatigue, and visible veins. A number of high-quality studies have shown that OPCs from grape seed can reduce symptoms.

Edema
Edema -- swelling caused by surgery or an injury -- seems to go away faster when people take grape seed extract. Edema is common after breast cancer surgery, and one double-blind, placebo-controlled study found that breast cancer patients who took 600 mg of grape seed extract daily after surgery for six months had less edema and pain than those who took placebo. Another study found that people who took grape seed extract after experiencing a sports injury had less swelling than those who took placebo.

High cholesterol
There isn't enough evidence to say whether taking grape seed extract can lower cholesterol, although two preliminary studies showed promising results. A study of 40 people with high cholesterol looked at whether taking grape seed extract, chromium, a combination of both, or placebo for 2 months would lower cholesterol. The combination of grape seed extract and chromium was more effective than either grape seed alone or placebo in lowering total and LDL ("bad") cholesterol.

Another study looked at the effects of a proprietary grape seed extract on lipid peroxidation (the breakdown of fats in the blood) in a group of heavy smokers. Twenty-four healthy male smokers, (aged 50 years or greater) took either placebo or 2 capsules (75 mg of a grape procyanidin extracts and soy-phosphatidalcholine), twice daily for 4 weeks. "Bad" LDL cholesterol levels were lower in those taking the grape seed supplement than those taking placebo.

High blood pressure
Theoretically, grape seed extract might help treat hypertension or high blood pressure. Antioxidants, like the ones found in grape seed, help protect blood vessels from damage. Damaged blood vessels can lead to higher blood pressure. In several animal studies, a grape seed extract substantially reduced blood pressure. But human studies are needed to see whether grape seed extract helps people with high blood pressure.

Cancer
Studies have found that grape seed extracts may prevent the growth of breast, stomach, colon, prostate, and lung cancer cells in test tubes. However, there is no clear evidence yet whether it works in humans. Antioxidants, such as those found in grape seed extract, are thought to reduce the risk of developing cancer. Grape seed extract may also help prevent damage to human liver cells caused by chemotherapy medications. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist before combining antioxidants with any chemotherapy drugs to make sure they interact safely together.

Other conditions
Grape seed extract is sometimes suggested for the following, although evidence is slight:
Diabetes (improving blood sugar control)
Improving night vision
Protecting collagen and elastin in skin (anti-aging)
Treating hemorrhoids

Available Forms:
Grape seed is available as a dietary supplement in capsules, tablets, and liquid extracts. Look for products that are standardized to 40 - 80% proanthocyanidins or an OPC content of not less than 95%.
How to Take It:
Pediatric
Grape seed extracts are not recommended for children. Whole grapes, however, make a healthy and safe snack for children.

Adult
To protect against free radical damage (oxidation), take 25 - 150 mg of a standardized extract (40 - 80% proanthocyanidins or 95% OPC value), 1 - 3 times daily.
Chronic venous insufficiency: 150 - 300 mg daily
Edema: 200 - 400 mg daily for 10 - 30 days

Precautions:
The use of herbs is a time-honored approach to strengthening the body and treating disease. Herbs, however, contain components that can trigger side effects and interact with other herbs, supplements, or medications. For these reasons, herbs should be taken with care, under the supervision of a health care provider qualified in the field of botanical medicine.
At the recommended dosage, grape seed is considered safe for up to 12 weeks. However, pregnant or breastfeeding women should not take grape seed supplements.

Possible Interactions:
There are no known scientific reports of interactions between grape seed and conventional medications. However, the OPCs in grape seed extract may interact with the following:
Anticoagulants (blood thinners) -- Grape seed extract may act as a blood-thinner, and could increase the risk of bleeding if taken with other blood-thinners such as warfarin (Coumadin). If you are taking blood thinning medications or have bleeding disorders, ask your doctor before taking grape seed extract.

Alternative Names:
Vitis vinifera

Bibliography
Reviewed last on: 3/22/2009
Steven D. Ehrlich, NMD, private practice specializing in complementary and alternative medicine, Phoenix, AZ. Review provided by VeriMed Healthcare Network.
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