The Remnant Online
Health => Gardening => Topic started by: Richard Myers on July 28, 2008, 05:46:40 PM
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A couple of weeks ago, I found two spotted fawns close to our house. First time they have been this close. They were frightened when they saw me. I then saw their mother not far away. I tried to set aside her fears as she stood frozen hoping her babies would be safe.
Today I feel much differently. She ate all of my tomato plants last night! All 30 plants down to the stumps. :(
I have never needed a fence to keep my garden safe. But, now that our German Shepherd is gone, the deer have free run at night.
Any suggestions?
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A couple of weeks ago, I found two spotted fawns close to our house. First time they have been this close. I frightened them and then saw their mother not far away. I tried to set aside her fears as she stood frozen hoping her babies would be safe.
Today I feel much differently. She ate all of my tomato plants last night! All 30 plants down to the stumps. :(
I have never needed a fence to keep my garden safe. But, now that our German Shepherd is gone, the deer have free run at night.
Any suggestions?
Welcome to the gourmet deer feeding club! ;D You are providing a valuable service to these starving creatures.
There is only one solution that I know of that actually works 100% of the time: a good fence. I know exactly how you feel, having lost all of my tomatoes in the same way one time. In fact, our entire garden (except the potatoes) was eaten by deer one year. The next year I put in an electric fence. That worked well until about 2 years ago when a doe with more spring in her step than normal found out she could jump it. It was about 7' high. I took it down and put up a new fence with the top wire 9 1/2' off the ground. They don't jump that. I space the wires about 15" apart and that seems to work well. I also have to have a few wires fairly close to the ground (and close to each other) to keep the coons out--they will eat all the corn--usually the day before you were going to pick it. >:(
A regular barbed wire fence would work, too, if it's high enough. I do electric because the coons won't climb it. But you do have to keep the weeds away from the wire to achieve maximum efficiency. I have a battery operated fencer that works off of a rechargeable 6 volt battery. I think they also make fencers that will work off of a regular 12 volt car battery.
Have fun!
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Our groundskeeper always battles the deer eating all of the flowers. Since fencing is not practical in this application he uses simple black garden netting. It works well and you cannot see it unless you are up close. Of course in a vegetable garden the netting might be a pain since you would have to move it every time you wanted access to the produce.
Another thing that he tried is using dish soap and a little cayenne pepper diluted in water and sprayed on the flowers. This worked well as a deterrent - one bite and the deer wanted no more - but it did leave a little visible residue. Not sure that I would want to spray that on things I want to consume.
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;D Gourmet deer feeding club! I like it. I'd love to see your fence, it sounds superb. This year I've provided carrot tops, beet tops and strawberries. My patrons seem very happy.
I've tried human hair, dog hair, fencing, and drinking a lot of water.. and well... you can imagine the rest of that story... The problem for me is that without anything, they come only rarely, so it is tough to know when to use the temporary deterrents. I've heard use of white flags as well, apparently white tailed deer see it as alarming.
Last year I walked outside to find a doe in the garden. I started a slow trot toward it yelling and waving my hands. The bold thing looked at me and started to walk toward me. I was a bit shocked. Fortunately it decided in the next instant to run away. She should not have given up so quickly, I would have looked like one big chicken if it kept coming toward me.
Years back, I caught a squirrel climbing up a tree with one of my stalks of corn. He was about 10 feet up, and the stalk was about 5 feet long. Amazing little critter. I had a small garden then, and by the time I came home from work, I didn't have any more corn.
As I look this post over, it looks like it is best not to listen to my advice!
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;D Gourmet deer feeding club! I like it. I'd love to see your fence, it sounds superb. This year I've provided carrot tops, beet tops and strawberries. My patrons seem very happy.
I've tried human hair, dog hair, fencing, and drinking a lot of water.. and well... you can imagine the rest of that story... The problem for me is that without anything, they come only rarely, so it is tough to know when to use the temporary deterrents. I've heard use of white flags as well, apparently white tailed deer see it as alarming.
I've tried some of those methods you mentioned, as well as others, including hanging pieces of bar soap around the garden. All of these various methods seem to work--for awhile; but when the deer get hungry enough (or bored with wild fare), they will eventually come to your banquet table. That's why I'm a firm believer in good fence. Just remember to turn the fencer on. If you don't they eventually will figure out that it doesn't bite anymore, and will jump through it--unless you string the wire really close together, which isn't really practical and is unnecessary if you keep the fence on.
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Today I feel much differently. She ate all of my tomato plants last night! All 30 plants down to the stumps. :(
Richard! Oh no! Those rascals!
Seems as if there is a large conspiracy to rid us of our tomatoes!
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Oh gardening..isn't it fun? I lived in MT for 20 years and nothing but a fense worked. I tried all the things you tried and would have healthy deer to show for it.
Now I live in Alaska..and had to put a 8ft fense to keep the moose out! Want to trade? Oh yes...the bears can climb the fenses here :) Now that I think of it...I think I should ask for a greenhouse!!
Colleen
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Oh gardening..isn't it fun? I lived in MT for 20 years and nothing but a fense worked. I tried all the things you tried and would have healthy deer to show for it.
Now I live in Alaska..and had to put a 8ft fense to keep the moose out! Want to trade? Oh yes...the bears can climb the fenses here :) Now that I think of it...I think I should ask for a greenhouse!!
Colleen
Even here in Maine we are not exempt from moose issues. I once had a moose walk through my garden, dragging the fence with him. He took out half of the fence before he made an abrupt left turn (the wires had gotten tangled around one of his feet). It took me half a day to repair the damage. Fortunately moose do not frequent my yard very often.
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Oh gardening..isn't it fun? I lived in MT for 20 years and nothing but a fense worked. I tried all the things you tried and would have healthy deer to show for it.
Now I live in Alaska..and had to put a 8ft fense to keep the moose out! Want to trade? Oh yes...the bears can climb the fenses here :) Now that I think of it...I think I should ask for a greenhouse!!
Colleen
I am so thankful that I do not have to deal with Moose and bear!! :) I am blessed even without my tomato plants! It could be so much worse!!!
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In the deep South where I lived for a number of years, it's not the big critters that are the problem in the garden, but the little ones. Mole crickets. Fire ants. And I can't forget those rototilling rodants that we so often referred to as possom-on-the-half-shell, armadillos. ;D ;D
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God allowed the thorns and hardpan that we might depend upon Him. Sadly we need all of these difficulties in our lives to perfect our characters. Next time, I will pray over my tomatoes as well as build a fence. :)
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Even here in Maine we are not exempt from moose issues. I once had a moose walk through my garden, dragging the fence with him. He took out half of the fence before he made an abrupt left turn (the wires had gotten tangled around one of his feet). It took me half a day to repair the damage. Fortunately moose do not frequent my yard very often.
Oh what a sight I picture! WE have moose seasonally... Mostly early winter and spring....Last winter I had xmas lights strung on a tree close by my deck and a moose must have got it..the lights were bitten and stings of lights missing, besides parts of the tree missing!
This year I am wrapping the tree with burlap!
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Deer, Aren't they sweet. Hmmmmmm, I will need to think this through because when they eat your tomatoes twice, you think "there go my tomatoes again", but then you think, "oh the poor little cute things how are they to know what is garden and what is not?" And then you think, "besides they need to eat too, and they do not have a Food-Max." Oh well I'll probably let them eat them next time too. ::)
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TWICE? Oh No! I am so sorry!
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Deer, Aren't they sweet. Hmmmmmm, I will need to think this through because when they eat your tomatoes twice, you think "there go my tomatoes again", but then you think, "oh the poor little cute things how are they to know what is garden and what is not?" And then you think, "besides they need to eat too, and they do not have a Food-Max." Oh well I'll probably let them eat them next time too. ::)
Tall fence, preferably electric. ;D
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It's hunting season here in Michigan. All the farmers and car owners are hoping for a successfully large harvest. The deer herd is too big, causing millions of damage to crops and autos. When we talk of venison on the grill it's the grill of the car (I've gotten two this way) Sadly we live in a sinful world where killing is a necessary evil.
rs
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I had my own very close call with a deer last night. It actually was close enough that I closed my eyes and cringed waiting for the impact but it didn't happen. Praise the Lord! I'm not sure how I missed him or how the car in the other lane missed his/her buddy who was also crossing the road at full speed.
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It's hunting season here in Michigan. All the farmers and car owners are hoping for a successfully large harvest. The deer herd is too big, causing millions of damage to crops and autos. When we talk of venison on the grill it's the grill of the car (I've gotten two this way) Sadly we live in a sinful world where killing is a necessary evil.
rs
Be glad they just hit the grill. I've had 2 deer drape themselves across the windshield (while apparently trying to jump over the car)--and walk away from it, in spite of ruining a perfectly good windshield both times. Here it's moose we worry about, especially at night. Very hard to see in the dark--no eyeshine, and very tall.
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I can't imagine hitting a moose, that would be like hitting a horse. I guess I should be thankful I live in an area where we just hit deer.
rs
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O, Dear Jim, I am so thankful your gurardian angel was on the alert! Last year, our son and his wife hit a deer on the way home to Indianapolis from IL. They could drive the vehicle home, but it sure had to have several spare parts put on it....The deer? Paul went back and looked, but never could see it again, as there were woods on both sides of the road, I suppose it hid there.
Brother Richard! Hitting a moose does sound even worse!! We live in the country, and when we are coming home and it is dusky dark, I try to keep an eye out everywhere, and there are certain places on the road the deer are more likely to be crossing. But, they can suddenly appear from seemingly nowhere, and you cannot avoid them.
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Pheasant story thrown in here:
Husband and I were driving home from a trip and unfortunately we had just turned westward into the sun and it was blinding. The trip was long, 14 hours, and we were exhausted. All of a sudden, out of absolutely nowhere our windshield shattered into a million pieces - like an explosion for no apparent reason - and we found ourselves staring into an open space at 80 miles an hour. We were grateful for sunglasses.
Husband stopped the car. His face was cut from flying glass and the bird was in the front seat with us. We had to drive the rest of the way home with no windshield. It was awful!
At the time I was still designing clothing, so I plucked the bird and trimmed the sleeves and hem of a new dress in pheasant feathers. ;D
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Making the most of a bad situation eh? Surprised a pheasant would break the window, but at 80 MPH....
A few years ago a car hit two deer at once in front of our house, killing one and wounding the other which I then put out of it's misery. The guy didn't have insurance and the car was a clunker, it was still drivable. So we tossed the deceased in his trunk and he took them home, said he figured he was coming out ahead. Of course that is illegal to do.
rs
Pheasant story thrown in here:
Husband and I were driving home from a trip and unfortunately we had just turned westward into the sun and it was blinding. The trip was long, 14 hours, and we were exhausted. All of a sudden, out of absolutely nowhere our windshield shattered into a million pieces - like an explosion for no apparent reason - and we found ourselves staring into an open space at 80 miles an hour. We were grateful for sunglasses.
Husband stopped the car. His face was cut from flying glass and the bird was in the front seat with us. We had to drive the rest of the way home with no windshield. It was awful!
At the time I was still designing clothing, so I plucked the bird and trimmed the sleeves and hem of a new dress in pheasant feathers. ;D
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Pheasant story thrown in here:
Husband and I were driving home from a trip and unfortunately we had just turned westward into the sun and it was blinding. The trip was long, 14 hours, and we were exhausted. All of a sudden, out of absolutely nowhere our windshield shattered into a million pieces - like an explosion for no apparent reason - and we found ourselves staring into an open space at 80 miles an hour. We were grateful for sunglasses.
Husband stopped the car. His face was cut from flying glass and the bird was in the front seat with us. We had to drive the rest of the way home with no windshield. It was awful!
At the time I was still designing clothing, so I plucked the bird and trimmed the sleeves and hem of a new dress in pheasant feathers. ;D
One of my customers had a Ruffed Grouse fly through his living room window, destroying window and killing said bird. One of the truck drivers who delivers to us rendezvoused with a turkey in flight (the turkey was flying, not him ;D ). He survived; the turkey and the windshield did not. It's a dangerous world out there, even before the drivers from Massachusetts share the road with us.
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Story time eh?
Back when I was a businessman our CPA came to our office one morning. One of my partners looked out the office window and started to laugh. Stuck in the grill of the CPA's Bonneville was a rabbit. Neither the grill or rabbit survived. Critters and cars just do not make for a good combination. I've hit owls, raccoons, rabbits, deer etc. Came real close to hitting a beaver once. What I really hate to hit is a family pet. I know the heartache that can cause. Can't wait for the time when there will be no more death.
rs
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What I really hate to hit is a family pet. I know the heartache that can cause. Can't wait for the time when there will be no more death.
Amen to that!! I believe that, that time and place is much closer than most believe. What a day that will be!!
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
Isa 25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
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Amen
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In an effort to stay on topic, I have moved my reporting of my tomato saga to this topic where it belongs. Last year I lost all my tomato plants. This year, the deer took off. The little twins have grown up and Mom and they disappeared.....until my first two tomatoes turned red!!! That night they pranced in and devoured them and a number of greens ones. That was a couple of weeks ago. Then, a week later the second batch of two were turning red and guess what!!! They ate them in the middle of the day!!!! :(
So, it is battle number one!! I got my fencing up and a couple of gates surrounding the "red" tomatoes. I also worked up a guillotine just in case they get through my fence and the gates!!!!
Here is my double fence and the red ones. :)
(http://remnant-online.com/Images/tom1.jpg)
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Guillotine if they get through the fence and the gates!!!
(http://remnant-online.com/Images/tom2.jpg)
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It is interesting that their taste is not altogether unlike some of my friends. Notice they have not eaten my collards, kale, or brussels!!! :) And you might have noticed the smaller tomato plants? They have been chewed down. I don't know of anyone who likes the tomato plant itself except for Bucky and Billybob! They have taken a liking to my tomatoes and the plants!
Tomorrow is the big day!!! We eat our BLTs for dinner!!! :) :) BTW....those are Beefsteaks!! Each one is a handful!!! I have waited two years for this day!!!! :) :) Just one more night. Maybe I ought to take my sleeping bag out there tonight? Naw. A fence, two gates, and a guillotine ought to do it!~~~
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I know analogies are never perfect, but this came to mind as I was reading about all your work to save those tomatoes. Good thing your tomatoes aren't like us humans. God went and goes through more than that to save and protect us and many of us work our way around his attempts to do that - out into the open and practically beg to be devoured by the Devil. If we would only be content living behind His protection - then when the Devil came to devour, he may be permitted to nibble at the non-essentials, but we would not be consumed.
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Guillotine if they get through the fence and the gates!!!
:D
Did the tomatoes survive the night?
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I would say the only good deer are dead deer, but then I'd get my wish on the grill of my truck so I won't say it :)
All I can say is that we need more hunters, at least here in Michigan. If everyone were vegetarian we'd be in trouble. It's almost impossible to grow a garden here without spending a lot of money on a tall fence. I think the guillotine idea is a good one, but PETA would object.
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Tomorrow is the big day!!! We eat our BLTs for dinner!!!
Okay, what's a vegan BLT?
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Tomorrow is the big day!!! We eat our BLTs for dinner!!!
Okay, what's a vegan BLT?
Boca burger, lettuce and tomato ? ;)
I'm guessing it is a lettuce and tomato sandwich. Add some onion, maybe avocado, a little garlic salt and some homemade ketch and they are really good.
They have deer fence that is made out of netting that is cheap and effective. Deer don't plow through fence unless they are pressed. You can just take it down come winter unless you have berry bushes or fruit trees.
My neighbor has a 5 acre garden. He uses electric fence effectively. It does not have to be that high. He uses several strands and staggers them a part so the deer cannot get through them all without getting buzzed. After a couple of bouts with the wires the deer stays out. I don't know if one is over run with deer how that would work. You might get tired of fixing fence before they all got the message.
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My late father didn't have much luck with a single strand electric fence. My brother who is retired just put in a woven wire fence 4 feet high and then 3 strands of heavy electric another 3 feet up. So far no critters, not even rabbits or raccoons...yet. And it keeps in the grandkids when he needs their help weeding, in his Garden of Weedin.
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My late father didn't have much luck with a single strand electric fence. My brother who is retired just put in a woven wire fence 4 feet high and then 3 strands of heavy electric another 3 feet up. So far no critters, not even rabbits or raccoons...yet. And it keeps in the grandkids when he needs their help weeding, in his Garden of Weedin.
It takes several single strands strategically placed. Some of the effectiveness of the deer stops depends on the degree of determination of the deer and how badly they want to get in.
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While running this morning where mountain lions hang out, I scared a baby deer. It jumped up right next to the trail I was on. It was no taller than some of the shrubs and bushes that grow there, and appeared a little wobbly.
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I thought you were going to tell us you were face to face with a den of lions!! :) The little ones are sure cute! Aren't they sweet!
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Vicki, they almost made it! Sadly one of them got bitten. The deer could not get any more than one little nibble, though. So, we had our BLTs!! Sorry, that is BTLs, Sister Diane. Beefstake Tomato and Lettuce. And as cp put it, a little avocado, cashew sour cream, and a touch of salt on sprouted wheat bread!!! :) A full meal!!
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I thought you were going to tell us you were face to face with a den of lions!! :) The little ones are sure cute! Aren't they sweet!
I would not stand a chance, but only with the Lords help with lions.
It surely took me by surprise. This little one sure had the spots. I did not look around for the mother. I have seen the older deer plenty of times in the foot hills.
My biggest surprise while running in the mountains was scaring a female elk. This happened during hunting season. I come around this corner, and she was hidden right next to the trail by a pine tree. I heard this very large heavy sound as she brushed the tree in fear. For certain I though I had myself a bear. Fortunately she was running away from me. I would have been squished.
I have had an eagle dive at me above tree line, seen bear, mountain lion prints, fox, coyotes and other things. God has kept me safe.
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If everyone were vegetarian we'd be in trouble. It's almost impossible to grow a garden here without spending a lot of money on a tall fence. I think the guillotine idea is a good one, but PETA would object.
I used to like vegetarians, but now I see that some of them are just plain trouble. When it comes to my garden, I have grown to like carnivores. They eat the vegetarians!! :) Sad, but it is either them or my food!!
As for the guillotine, notice there are no blades, just forks. I thought maybe I could just pin him down until I could tie him up and ship him out to another state! For some reason, he just ignored it and stayed on the other side where the red tomatoes are (were). So, the fence was not high enough. They got used to my tomatoes and now they know what is on the other side of the fence. Just like us, they think the grass is always greener on my side of the fence. Well.....we will have to go higher and higher until they cannot get over. These tomatoes are getting expensive!!!
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Well ship them to Hawaii where they can't swim back :) We have very few carnivores here in Michigan that will take a full grown deer, though I guess coyotes, foxes and bobcats will take a fawn. The main ways of reducing the population are hunters and autos. The deer in our state take out millions of dollars of crops every year, not to mention car wrecks. Some counties here have upwards to 2000 car/deer accidents a year. The main difference between a deer and a rat is the size. But I will admit the fawns sure are cute.
If everyone were vegetarian we'd be in trouble. It's almost impossible to grow a garden here without spending a lot of money on a tall fence. I think the guillotine idea is a good one, but PETA would object.
I used to like vegetarians, but now I see that some of them are just plain trouble. When it comes to my garden, I have grown to like carnivores. They eat the vegetarians!! :) Sad, but it is either them or my food!!
As for the guillotine, notice there are no blades, just forks. I thought maybe I could just pin him down until I could tie him up and ship him out to another state! For some reason, he just ignored it and stayed on the other side where the red tomatoes are (were). So, the fence was not high enough. They got used to my tomatoes and now they know what is on the other side of the fence. Just like us, they think the grass is always greener on my side of the fence. Well.....we will have to go higher and higher until they cannot get over. These tomatoes are getting expensive!!!
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BTW I did see some gardeners the other day working in a garden that the deer absolutely could not get into, because if they could get in those gardeners could get out....of prison.
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Sin has sure messed things up!! We still want to feed the poor little things, but with the other hand, I have my slingshot if they want my tomatoes!! I like Brian's object lesson. As hard as we work to save our tomatoes, God works even harder to save us. And we don't appreciate the work that He has done and still does for us. We, like the deer, just go on eating that which is going to lead to death. Not very smart are we? But, even though many reject this great love, there are a relatively few who will respond and live for eternity with our Saviour and heavenly Father!
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Oh! I am steaming! I understand how Richard feels when the deer get into his tomatoes! Over the past several days I noticed my grape vines were sprouting new leaves since transplantation. What joy! Then the next day the new sprouts were gone! Disappeared! Nowhere to be seen! And it happened again yesterday when one was beginning to come out. Gone! What a puzzle!
So, this morning I watched. It's those stupid magpies! They are eating them! And I love the magpies - but not enough to give them my grapevine! So I have had to place chicken wire over the top of them. They are pretty smart - about like Mama Kitty, so maybe the vine will have a chance to survive!
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I'm telling you folks, a rifle is a gardeners best friend. :) The farmers around here follow the 3 S's rule. Shoot. shovel and shut up. I know one farmer who took 50 deer from one field. He had a permit to do so and donated the meat to a food bank.
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My uncle had a large grape vineyard. He had a permit to kill deer also. We would go out at night and kill them in the orchard. (I rode along at age 10)
I killed my first deer when I was 12. It was very exciting. He jumped out in front of me and I got him on the first shot. But, he kept going. Down the ravine and up on the other side. Still standing, I shot a couple of more times before he disappeared. I ran down and then up and found him dead behind a manzanita bush. I had seen a lot of dead deer. I had watched many shot and skinned. But, this one was different. When I got to him and looked down, I did not expect to look into those eyes and feel the sorrow that I felt. That was the last deer, or squirrel, or bird that I shot.
Yes, the deer are a problem, just as are the Muslim terrorists and the Nazis in WWII. If I had to shoot someone in self defense or in defense of anther, I would do it. But, never will I kill an animal unless it is a danger to another living creature. Deer eat my tomatoes, but they don't eat people or my dog. Sin has made a mess of things. Soon it will be over. The lamb and deer will not be eaten by the lion any longer! And man will no longer kill.
Another thought. There is no need to kill to eat in most places in the world. I am having a hard time thinking of somewhere that it is necessary to kill to eat. But, there may be. If one is unwilling to kill to eat, then they ought not expect others to kill for them. I know some have allergies to some kinds of vegetables, but that is no excuse for killing an cow. An besides, the risk of contracting cancer, CJD, or Alzheimers makes it somewhat important to find one of the foods God designed for humans rather than having to kill an animal.
Interesting how our perspective changes when the Holy Spirit speaks to us. And, you don't have to be a Christian to know what is right and what is wrong.
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Yes, Brother Richard, it is interesting how our perspective changes. Having not eaten meat for over a year now, it just doesn't appeal to me anymore. I even get a wierd feeling walking through the grocery store past the meat and thinking about how many animals had to die to fill those cases. :P And I'm even starting to feel sorry for the caged up animals when we go to the zoo, too!
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It will all change very soon! :)
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I have sometimes considered that deer die just the same way people die. The only difference is with their limited reasoning capacity they are not able to have the consolation that there is a loving Creator to take them to heaven. As bad a death is that has to help.
I used to have not a thought about eating meat. Now even the thought of eating animal flesh seems gross.
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There is considerable debate in a small city near here about hiring sharpshooters to come in and cull the deer herd. You have those that want to trap them and take them to the country (we don't want them) vs those who are tired of their gardens and shrubbery being eaten. And of course you also have people that like them eating in their backyards, and bird feeders because they are so cute. Interesting comments in the paper for and against.
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There is considerable debate in a small city near here about hiring sharpshooters to come in and cull the deer herd. You have those that want to trap them and take them to the country (we don't want them) vs those who are tired of their gardens and shrubbery being eaten. And of course you also have people that like them eating in their backyards, and bird feeders because they are so cute. Interesting comments in the paper for and against.
A similar thing happened several years ago in the SF Bay area. Angel Island is in SF bay and was formerly an army fort and a facility for the quarantine of immigrants like Ellis Island in NYC. There was a deer population that became established there. Some time in the 70s or 80s it became apparant that there were too many deer on the island and they were destroying the native vegetation and the ecology of the island was being damaged. The Forest Service planned to cull the population by simply shooting them. That was obviously the most reasonable and economical thing to do. However the animal rights folks got wind of it and created such controversy that the Forest Service backed down and if I recall correctly, they had to tranquilize them and carry them out via helicopter to be released elsewhere, at the cost of thousands of dollars. In the meantime, society kills more food animals probably every few seconds than the number of deer on Angel Island.
There are some very fanatical animal rights people. I knew a woman like that. I told her jokingly that she would probably choose to run over 3 people to avoid hitting a chicken. She laughingly agreed.
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Some of those groups go so far as to be against bee keeping. Never mind that much of what humans eat, from cucumbers to apples are the result of pollination by bees. They really do put animals above humans. I doubt PETA has many true Christians among their ranks. Hopefully.
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Dead people are at times called John Doe. Well, I have a Betsy Doe. The problem is that she is still alive. She is brazen! I am losing sleep trying to protect my Hibiscus, Euryops, lemon and orange trees, tomatoes, and my beautiful rose bushes. I have chased her all around the neighborhood. Had her trapped and confused. After that chase, I knew she would not come back my way for a long time. Felt sorry for her. and then.....by the time I got home, there she was by my tomatoes!!!
So, each night when the neighbor's dog barks, I now know it is her. I am up with my slingshot!!! But, I can never find her in my yard! But, often I do find her. Her eyes shine in the dark when the light hits them. I now have allies. My wife did not care much about Betsy Doe. She did not do all the work in the garden. And as much as she likes tomatoes, I have managed to get her enough that she is not concerned about the Doe. But, that is has all changed. I planted a lemon tree for my wife. It is doing very well. Lots of new growth. It is just by the front door. She has been watching it grow for over a year. Lately Doe has been eating the leaves off the tree. My wife was getting concerned. But, not enough. So, I got a very nice looking lemon and hung it on the tree. My wife was very excited! Her first lemon. Then the next day I removed the lemon from the tree and pointed to all of the leaf damage on the tree. Betsy Doe did it!! Well....now my wife is on my side!!!! She is not sympathetic any longer.
And my neighbor who has been providing refuge for Betsy Doe no longer is happy. Her plants have been disappearing also. So, the battle continues day and night. I have many friends now who are giving me advice on how to deal with Betsy Doe. Last night I was told about a box that has a motion detector and when the deer gets close a jet of water shoots out. I have been thinking that maybe I can hook it up to my slingshot!!
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Brother Richard, I read this the other day and immediately thought of you. Someone else was having problems with deer and had heard that if you string blinking Christmas lights around your plants it will keep those "sweet" animals away. Sounds kind of goofy, but it worked for them. At night, anyway! :D
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Dead people are at times called John Doe. Well, I have a Betsy Doe. The problem is that she is still alive. She is brazen! I am losing sleep trying to protect my Hibiscus, Euryops, lemon and orange trees, tomatoes, and my beautiful rose bushes. I have chased her all around the neighborhood. Had her trapped and confused. After that chase, I knew she would not come back my way for a long time. Felt sorry for her. and then.....by the time I got home, there she was by my tomatoes!!!
So, each night when the neighbor's dog barks, I now know it is her. I am up with my slingshot!!! But, I can never find her in my yard! But, often I do find her. Her eyes shine in the dark when the light hits them. I now have allies. My wife did not care much about Betsy Doe. She did not do all the work in the garden. And as much as she likes tomatoes, I have managed to get her enough that she is not concerned about the Doe. But, that is has all changed. I planted a lemon tree for my wife. It is doing very well. Lots of new growth. It is just by the front door. She has been watching it grow for over a year. Lately Doe has been eating the leaves off the tree. My wife was getting concerned. But, not enough. So, I got a very nice looking lemon and hung it on the tree. My wife was very excited! Her first lemon. Then the next day I removed the lemon from the tree and pointed to all of the leaf damage on the tree. Betsy Doe did it!! Well....now my wife is on my side!!!! She is not sympathetic any longer.
And my neighbor who has been providing refuge for Betsy Doe no longer is happy. Her plants have been disappearing also. So, the battle continues day and night. I have many friends now who are giving me advice on how to deal with Betsy Doe. Last night I was told about a box that has a motion detector and when the deer gets close a jet of water shoots out. I have been thinking that maybe I can hook it up to my slingshot!!
Welcome to the club, Richard. ;D We have a doe with 2 fawns that comes out in broad daylight within 25' of the house. My wife wages an ongoing battle to save her flowers. The only thing that saves our vegetable garden is the electric fence.
Have you tried a motion sensitive sprinkler? That seems to work well, but we've disconnected it because it was using too much water.
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"Last night I was told about a box that has a motion detector and when the deer gets close a jet of water shoots out. I have been thinking that maybe I can hook it up to my slingshot!!"
You see, I am moving past the water bit!!!
Thanks, Diane. I think you hit the nail right on the head as you laughed. But, you know one nights sleep would be worth it!! :)
Actually the radio is still working in the back yard. When it is on, she seems to stay away. It is getting hard to tell because she has damaged so many plants that it is not easy to see what she is eating any more. The tomatoes, I can tell!!! The fences seem to keep her out unless we are gone for an extended period.
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Richard, I am so sorry that deer is such a menace! Yours is the worst case I have ever seen! Are you sure a sling shot and your other methods is enough? How about trapping or a .22 sprayed on the hind quarters?
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Do you mean buckshot in a 22? I do know some who have taken buckshot to the bears. That worked. The bear did not come back to their front porch.
I keep thinking she will wake up one day and think it is not worth it. But, I think I have it backwards. One day I am going to wake up and realize I need more sleep and give up. But, not yet. I saw an alarm the other day. It has a infra-red beam that tells you when someone enters your driveway. It is wireless to an alarm in the "bedroom". :) Yes, no more getting up at all hours to go hunting. I can sleep until Betsy comes calling. Then......
My only concern is that sooner of later (sooner probably), she will identify that alarm as the problem and when she hears it go off, she will take off. By the time I am dressed and sligshot ready, she will be gone. I guess I can start sleeping with my pants on. :( I have also thought about putting my sleeping bag at a strategic location so that I will be ready for her when she begins eating. One night I could actually hear her chomping on my Hibiscus. My concern now is that she has discovered my Photinia. I have 30 lining the road for privacy. They are just little guys now, but are growing nicely. Or were growing nicely. They had a lot of new growth as I was hand watering to keep them moving along. Well....now she just goes along the road and nibbles away on each one. I have covered my citrus with poultry netting. And, I guess I am going to have to do the same to the Photinia. 30 cages! The Myers' home, Fort Knox!!!
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Poor man! Yes, buck shot in a .22 !!
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I am blessed!! Who else has such attention from such sweet creatures!! I get a lot of exercise. I am up early! I am learning new things!
I will admit that the deep tracks in my newly planted lawn are a little frustrating! They are not a few.
On the other hand, when I spend more time in prayer about these creatures, it seems to help greatly. Maybe my effort has been in the wrong direction? When I thought that my efforts were succeeding, maybe it was God that was constraining these gentle animals?
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Success!!! I am not counting my lemons before they are harvested, but.....the infrared warning device did as I thought....I think.
I slept soundly last night. I did not keep waking up looking out the window for Betsy. Until....the alarm sounded. Quietly I got my slingshot....opened the door....and no Betsy. When the alarm sounded, it did so twice in quick succession. I think...no, I know she heard the high frequency alarm even though I had it covered to dampen the sound. I think it caused her to depart quickly. No hoofprints on my lawn!!!
So....how long will it work? How long before she gets smart and figures I will sleep through it because she is "always" gone? Well...I will continue to get up when it goes off. For awhile.We will see who wins out!!!
My grass is growing!!!! And the lemon tree has a lot of new growth. The large tree that is not locked up in protective custody! The photinias are outside the protective alarm, so I still have to decide what to do with them. But, a half nights sleep is quite an improvement!!! Of course I also prayed to God to keep her away. :)
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YAY!
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Now when the alarm goes off, she knows I am coming!!! So, she comes, eats, and then runs!!
We have learned a lot that many before me have learned. My deer do not eat Oleander, Vinca, Zinnia, Marigolds, Belladonna Lillies, and Lantana.
They do eat citrus leaves, Photinia, roses, gazania, Euryops, Hibiscus, and about every thing that is nice!!
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I don't know who I feel sorrier for: you or Betsy. :'( Maybe a guard dog is the answer?
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The fall grass is coming in nicely and the deer disappeared....until today. My neighbor reported seeing seven, yes seven in front of my house!!! Seven!!! Betsy has invited her friends to dinner, breakfast, and lunch!!! My photinia was so pretty with the new young red shoots growing nicely! They still are pretty, but not for long! Unless I can actually hit one of them....Betsy and friends. I found them tonight while driving down our road. They just looked at me. When I got out of the car, they took off and when I yelled at them, they ran faster than a speeding bullet, all seven of them. I had only seen three, but when I yelled at them, the others took off also. I think the greenery kept them away until now. Betsy remembered the roses and lemons! It was too much for her to resist. So, here we go again!!
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Its that time of the year again! Betsy and friends are in the yard. Woke me up early this morning. I have installed three driveway alarms. So when they arrive, I know it. When I am gone, then think the alarm means I am coming. And....they do not like me.
They do not know it, but I am more heavily armed. My last trip to the mountains resulted in a bb-gun for defense. It may be more accurate than my slingshot. (I never ever hit them with it). Now, I don't have to worry about hitting them in the eye. It ought to sting a little, or at least let them know that there is a connection between the alarm and getting "touched" on the rear. So far the alarm is working and they think I am coming, so they keep on moving right out of the yard.
And then on the other hand, I pray more so I won't lose my trees, tomatoes, roses, etc. etc. Maybe God is doing most of work with my feeble little effort doing very little. Is that not usually the case? Well...maybe always the case!!!!
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I have not seen Betsy and friends for over a month. There seems to be a direct relationship between an event that took place a little over a month ago and my lack of observing any deer. I may be wrong, but I don't think the alarm system is the only reason I still have all my roses and tomato plants.
One day, Besty and her friend came bounding over the neighbor's fence and into my yard. They did not stay. One went left the other to the right. A half minute later two huge St. Bernards came bounding into my yard. They only stayed a moment and were off. I had not seen them before nor after. And neither have Besty and friends come back.
God loves me and will not allow me to be tempted beyond what I can bear. He is the One who has protected my garden. By what means, I am not sure. But, it appears that Besty has a good memory and does not find it worthwhile to visit my roses and tomatoes. There is a whole world out there for her. She does not need my tomatoes. And if some feel sorry for her, then she has some who will let her devour every rose, tomato, and many other living plants God gave for our blessing. I am happy she is elsewhere. Yet, I must remain vigilant and continue to pray that God protects my garden. Prayer works!
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:)
I am happy you can enjoy your garden in peace...finally!
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Thank you, Vicki. It has been a long hard fought battle. I should have begun praying sooner and harder. How often have I said that!
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Here is the 2013 deer report!
So far, the Photinia not behind the fence have been eaten back. The grape vines almost all were devoured early on, and then the grapes were eaten, all but the vines that were on the fence that keep the dogs penned. :) Good dogs. That was about 14 vines that fed the poor hungry deer.
Then, entering the front yard, they proceeded to eat my roses, but not the roses planted by house, like about three feet from were I sleep!! :) They know it is me. Then, after eating my roses they enter the garden area. Never before, have they eaten my squash. But, this year, they eat the squash, cucumbers, and the plants. :( I have now covered them with wire.
Then we have their prize dinner, the tomatoes. :) This year they are so far out of luck. I took my five foot fencing and moved it from the perimeter to enclose my precious tomato plants. Because the area is not large enough for them to jump into, they have stayed out.....so far. But, that has not stopped them from eating anything outside of the fence. They even got a bite of a tomato inside the fence! :( The white spot on the tomato is the deer nibble.
(http://remnant-online.com/Images/tomatoes_2013)
Then, the deer proceeded to my newly planted trees. I know I ought to have protected them, but I hoped they would not eat my trees. The did not eat all of them. They do not like peach leaves. But, they love cherry and apricot leaves. So, I lost one cherry tree and am protecting the other two.
Just love those cute innocent little deer. Actually two of the bucks are pretty good size. Thought about putting out a reward for them dead or alive, but thought better of it when I realized some would actually do it. :(
That's it so far for 2013. So far my tomatoes are looking pretty good! I am thankful!
No one else has a problem with deer!
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You are being tested in this area while others are not. Ours are of a different nature. ;)
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Richard, around my parts we have lots of deer, but as well we have farmers that plant hundreds of acres of soy beans around, and deer love soy beans. So, they go feed on them instead of my garden. As well we have green grass year round for them to eat so actually they always have plenty to eat. The only thing they seem to like more then soy beans is sweet potatoes. Some times we have had to persuade them that they were not to be eaten which might not have felt good on their backside, but they got the message. Coons and groundhogs are my worse problem.
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Yes, I have noticed that my problems are greatest when there is less food available for them. Now, all the grass is dry. All of the ag in our area is not available for deer. Tree crops mostly. My garden is like their favorite restaurant. My neighbors that have gardens, have dogs in the garden. I am not ready for that. But, maybe soon. :(
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We have deer all around, too, and we have a dog. Maybe that is why we do not have them in our garden.
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Interesting you say that, Mimi. This morning while driving, I was reminded that I have never lost my grapes before. They are on a fence-line that is unprotected. I was wondering why this just began, when I remembered we had a very protective German Shepherd that loved to chase everything. :) I know why we have a deer problem now. She ran free, the little dogs are kept in the back yard. She died around six years ago and it took awhile for the deer to realize she is gone. Often we do not realize the blessing we have until it is gone.
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Yes Richard you will need to get you another dog. May I suggest something like a border collie. It will not mind rounding them deer up and moving them out. Would all be in a days work ;) And yes they can be a blessing to you its master in more ways than one. Should we start suggesting names ;D
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Here is an interesting fence that does not have to be seven feet high. source (http://www.hillgardens.com/deerfence.htm)
It is a double fence three feet apart and three feet high, with an electrical charge.
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I have 2 neighbors with that system and they use it to keep horses, goats and alpacas enclosed. It really works.
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In September the deer got real brave. I guess they got real hungry. Or, they just like my garden better than the lawn next door. They ate my kale, collards, and chard!! Never done that before! And, they worked real hard to get under my fence and steal a couple of my prize tomatoes!! The dogs did bark, but I decided to sleep on. :) Well...they do bark a lot when the cats go by. How was I to know the difference between cats and deer? I found out the next morning! :(
The good news is.....they have not gotten into my tomato patch!! God is GOOD!! He provided me with a great crop of delicious tomatoes this year. And, they did not eat my watermelons. They have eaten my orange flesh and honeydew in the past. They leave the artichokes alone. They have nibbled on my snow peas. They are coming up great except for the corner they ate down. They are unprotected, so I may find them gone tomorrow morning!
Speaking of vermin, snails or slugs ate my kale and collard seedlings as they came up in a tray. I thought they would be safe, they were on a table. But, they were not. Something to consider when you think your seedlings are safe, but outdoors. Vermin are around every corner!! And we have not even discussed the human kind yet!
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Now that doesn't sound like fun. You'd think I'd have a similar experience with deer where I live but I don't think I've ever seen a single deer track in my yard for all the years I've lived here. Although I see them most evenings when I'm driving in the dark.
I have a relatively small garden and I was more worried about the smaller pests... ground hogs, rabbits, racoons etc.. So I put a relatively cheap fence. I bought some 2ft rabbit fencing and some cheap metal stakes. I haven't had any issues with my garden outside of the goofy earwigs eating the leaves on my sunflowers. One day on inspecting my garden I did find that something tried to push it over in one section. Whatever it was pushed fairly hard. I don't understand why something with that much strength just didn't hop over the small fence. Although I'm not complaining.
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Jim, you are blessed! And, so was I. Have not seen a deer all year!! Amazing! But, yesterday as I was watering my garden my eye caught something very foreboding. Yes, they are back!! It is good that Mad Deer Disease has not yet reached California. They left me their waste to clean up. Mad Deer Disease like BSE (Mad Cow Disease) is spread through urine and feces in the soil. And, the prions appear to be taken up by the greens we like to eat.
So, back to my garden patrol at night. I am so thankful for the months of peace and tranquility I have enjoyed, not to mention the good nights sleep. Dogs are gone, so I am on my own, unless God intervenes! :)
Opened my door last night to go to the car for something, and was met with a growl. There face to face with me were a family of four ready to fight raccoons. The dogs are gone, but the cats are still here. They get fed morning and evening. Apparently they left some food for our masked bandits. And, they were not going to let me disturb their meal without a complaint. I growled louder and they took off. :)
I like them better than the deer. They are cute, but they can tear things up when they are after food. And, they can be quite vicious when backed into a corner. I know better, so they always have a way out when I growl at them. :) Actually we have met quite a few times. Usually they run up a tree where I can take pictures of them. They have not bothered my garden from what I can tell. So, they are not my enemies as are the "sweet" deer!
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Raccoons! They are in over abundance here. Although I rarely see them alive. If they weren't so poor at crossing roads I think they'd take over the world.
Speaking of fences. I got tired of the messy look that my fence got because of the grass growing up against it so this year I removed it and I haven't had any issues with animals. Other than some birds raiding my strawberries. However, the corn and water melon are still kind of behind a fence since the last two years I used the last 10 feet of my dog run to expand my garden. So my popcorn is still safe. Unless of course something leans how to climb a chain link fence.
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Wellll......my fence got knocked down. So, Bambi and family have enjoyed not only my clean kale and collards, but they really like the young leaves coming out on all of my young fruit trees! Well......I am going to spray them all with cayenne!! Not sure what will happen, but I am looking to buy some right now!!! :) Will report back with the results.
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I hope the deer don't like cayenne as much as squirrels do. :P I tried discouraging them from eating from my bird feeders with cayenne. It worked for a few days, or so, and then they must have developed a taste for it. So I gave up, since it clogged the feeders anyway.
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Wally, I'm sure you don't wanna go investing money new bird feeders but... this seems to work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A-7g-fl3g8
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I've seen that kind before. I opted for an different kind (with collapsible perches), and it worked for a number of years. Finally, one enterprising Red Squirrel managed to wrap itself around the feeder and get at the seed. It didn't take long for the squirrels to destroy the feeder. ::) The baffles work for the Red Squirrels (except when the snow is deep--like most of this winter), and I don't have that many Gray Squirrels, so I've left it at that.
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I hope the deer don't like cayenne as much as squirrels do. :P I tried discouraging them from eating from my bird feeders with cayenne. It worked for a few days, or so, and then they must have developed a taste for it. So I gave up, since it clogged the feeders anyway.
You must have a Hispanic strain. lol
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In fact as a stimulant, it is addicting. And, as such, there is a tolerance built up requiring more of it to satisfy the addiction. Following Wally's experience, I might end up losing whole trees, not just the leaves. :( Maybe a cannon going off all night would be better?
In studying the subject, what I have read is that deer are like thieves, sooner or later no matter how hard you try to protect your valuables, they find a way to get at them. :( Actually God has kept them away for awhile. So, after I have done my part, I know He will do what is best. Maybe if my friends will offer up a prayer or two. There is power in prayer!
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Nova Scotia deer don't like Irish Spring soap. It may look funny but putting bars of soap in panty hose or knee highs and hanging from the trees or bushes keep the deer out of our gardens. I place them quite close together, (2 - 2 1/2 feet) spray with the hose once or twice a day (unless it's raining) and it works.
Our dog died this past January so we may have more problems with rabbits this year so I am going to throw bars of soap on the ground around the lettuce and see if it works the same for them. One thing about lettuce; even if they chew it off it will bounce back and continue to grow. I guess it might be wise to grow enough for both. :-\
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Dorine, I have read about Irish Spring. I can't afford that many bars of soap. Irish Spring has a good marketing program!
Mark suggested the same about growing enough for the deer and me. Well....what I discovered is that we must have a lot more deer here than he has. I grew enough kale and collards for my deer friend and me. But, Bambi invited his sister and brother, then the rest of his family, then his family and friends. Now, there is nothing left for any of us! :( But, God has promised He will provide our necessities, and He does. So, life has its trials that we may grow through them. Satan chooses to use deer, and God allows for a time.
Deer, rabbits, coons, dogs, cats, squirrels, birds, slugs, white flies, snails, and people. What can I say? "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return."
It was for our good that God pronounced this curse. "Cursed is the ground for thy sake." Our trials are meant to work for our good.
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Ha, ha. Well I tried. I've been collecting the soap over the years from the dollar store. It was a test at first and then I realized that the area's I placed the soap did not have any damage.
Well Richard God's creatures know where to graze on the healthiest and tastiest treats in your area and where the nicest people live. No guns, no hurt, good food. I wish I had the answers. Ask me about worms. ;D
When I look out my window all I see is white. I fight envy when I hear about those that have gardens in.
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I've heard that Mountain Lion urine is a good deterrent for deer, but I suspect that it's not cheap, and must be reapplied after each rainstorm.
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God is so very good! Wally, He gave me African Lion poop. I thought that would do it. And, I think it did, for awhile. I would not spread it in my garden, but I had it in a bucket. It kept them out for a couple of months, I think.
Dorine, I wish I was close by and we would make you a raised bed! Have you thought about the church doing a garden as a ministry project? You would be a great blessing and God would bless it abundantly!
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Just after my last post, I was doing my morning study of church activity and found this ANN story on an evangelism project. Training Church Gardeners (http://remnant-online.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=714:evangelize-with-a-church-garden&catid=71:organized-evangelism&Itemid=167)
I think it will take them a little longer than a week to catch up with you, Dorine! Maybe you can help them a little? :)
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If I was 20 years younger Richard I would love to do something like that. I no longer have the strength nor endurance to take on a project like that.
I hate to admit it but I'm a physical "has been". Even the gardening I do now is done with the help of my daughters.
Our plans this year for our very small garden is asking God to bless it abundantly so that we can share with some very poor neighbours in our small community. Especially one neighbour who has 3rd stage cancer. Her family depends on her. She has a mentally challenged daughter, special needs son and his wife and a Grand child she is raising that a daughter had out of wedlock. It's a very sad situation but they are such nice humble people. I want to bring as much joy and hope into their lives as is possible. They are not Christians so my intentions are to win their friendship and confidence so I can introduce them to Jesus.
Thanks for the offer of the raised beds by the way. I'll have to wait for heaven to take you up on that one. :)
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I was not thinking of you doing all the work, but encouraging others to take up the garden as an evangelistic project. You can do the supervising!! :) Have a blessed Sabbath!