M.A.
"Oh dear! Now, we wouldn't want to get too doctrinal now; would we? Only talk about Jesus," they say triumphantly.
I have heard it many times, in all church denominations.
To me, this mentality sounds an alarm, that cries out from the satanic delusions sweeping the world that
"It is time to seek the Lord, till He come, and rain righteousness upon you." (Hos.10:12).
To begin this topic, I will let the Word speak briefly, alone. I find this to be a very good approach to any topic, and you will see me use it a lot, in broaching new topics:
It is my intent that this thread serve as a beacon to the advent believers throughout the world, who are seeking Christ's righteousness, in order that they may be prepared to meet Him at His soon coming; and who want to labor effectively in imparting to others, a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
My studies have revealed that the Word has been awaiting "just such a time as this," (Esther 4:14)to address believers around the world thus:
"My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:" ("Deuteronomy 32:2).
Who would like to "get doctrinal," with me now? :)
------------------
"...We believe that through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved..." (Acts 15:11).
Your brother in Christ
David T. Battler
[This message has been edited by DavidTBattler (edited 03-10-2001).]
Good subject, Brother David.
"doctrine" (dak" trin) n. principle of belief; instruction; that which is taught.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." The words of Jesus. Matthew 28:19,20
Richard
As a result of the above quote, Bro. Battler, we are anxiously waiting for you to share with us your insights as to what you meant when you quoted someone as saying: "Oh dear! we wouldn't want to get too doctrinal now; would we? Only talk about Jesus...." Are you saying that when one's conversation begins to get "too doctrinal," that person is no longer talking about Jesus? Please enlighten.
M.A.
I am saying that people are tending to shy away from what they call doctrines, as opposed to what they call "talking about Jesus."
For eg., a while ago, I was in a group of people who were discussing the 2300 day prophecy, and one of the individuals said disdainfully; "I think this is getting too doctrinal. Lets just talk about Jesus."
I'm sure that those of us who know better would never swallow that, because we know that ALL doctrines talk about Jesus.
If they don't, then are they Christian?
I have been extremely busy for a while. Please forgive my slowness in posting from time to time.
I have some good material I am preparing for this thread. :)
------------------
"...We believe that through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved..." (Acts 15:11).
Your brother in Christ
David T. Battler
[This message has been edited by DavidTBattler (edited 03-24-2001).]
Have you ever hear someone say to you something like:
"Oh dear! Now, we wouldn't want to get too doctrinal now; would we? Only talk about Jesus," they say triumphantly.
I have heard it many times, in all church denominations.
To me, this mentality sounds an alarm, that cries out for attention, from all such satanic delusions sweeping the world saying:
"It is time to seek the Lord, till He come, and rain righteousness upon you." (Hos.10:12).
My studies have revealed that the Word has been awaiting "just such a time as this," (Esther 4:14) to address believers around the world thus:
"My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:" ("Deuteronomy 32:2).
The Alarm Is Sounding
There seems to be a great momentum developing in Christian circles against what they stoically term as “getting doctrinal.”
The ecumenical movement, including some within our own ranks seems to shrink back in abject horror at the very mention of the Word “doctrine.” They have essentially, made “doctrine out to be a dirty word, and in the minds of many, “doctrine” has been placed at the top of the list, as the greatest barrier to “unity.”
“Only talk about Jesus,” is the triumphant call of millions.
The ecumenical movement has infiltrated our own ranks as well. They can be heard echoing the chant: “If you get too doctrinal, : you’ll never get any converts to the church; you’ll never be able to experience true unity of the faith.”
And so the push is on: out with the doctrines, and on with “unity,” “brotherly love,” and “faith.” Should the SDA Church join with the throngs, in this clarion call for doctrinal “unity?”
If we were to join this world-wide call; would we then be answering the prayer of Jesus in John, chapter 17?
It will be the position of this study, that as SDA’s, we would be signing our own, spiritual death warrants, by joining the world in this grand delusion sweeping every nation, kindred, tongue, and people.
A Few Questions To Be Asked
1/ Should our generation just continue to mindlessly drift on, especially our young people, while the coming generation can’t even address God as their loving Creator; just because the idea, (the doctrine), of creation has been made out to confound us all: It has indeed been tampered with to the point where millions see it as unimportant.
2/ Should we just shrug our shoulders, when people refuse to believe that God is our Judge, just because the doctrine of the judgement has been perverted to say something like: “God will punish us forever, by burning us in hell for the rest of time, if we don’t obey Him.”
3/ Is it right that multitudes of people are deceived and saddened, just because of the thought, (doctrine), that while they are still stuck here on this rotten earth; their loved one has been arbitrarily separated from them, being whisked off to heaven, and now enjoying eternal bliss, or possibly even suffering eternal fire?! What does this kind of false doctrine of the state of our beloved dead say about our Lord’s character?
4/ Many times, I have been in the middle of talking with someone – even in my own church, and at times the discussion would turn to some point of Bible prophecy, and as soon as a difference in understanding would arise, the cry always comes forth: “We’d better not get too doctrinal here. Let’s just talk about Jesus.” And I am asking the question: “Is it possible to really talk about any doctrine, without talking about Jesus?”
As is often the case, the prophet of the Lord gives us some startling, yet assuring insight on this whole issue. In Great Controversy, pg.45-46 we read:
“There is an alarming indifference, in regards to the doctrines which are the very pillars of the Christian faith. The opinion is gaining ground, that after all, these are not of vital importance. This degeneracy is strengthening the hands of the agents of Satan, so that false theories, and fatal delusions, which the faithful in ages past, imperiled their lives TO RESIST AND EXPOSE, ARE NOW REGARDED WITH FAVOR, by thousands who claim to be followers of Christ.”
Why Is Doctrine So Important?
People have forgotten how the purpose of a given doctrine, is NEVER to ensure our salvation; but to understand it more fully.
Why is this?
Because true, Christian principles, which all believers supposedly espouse, are really just ideas, or statements, about some aspect of God’s character. Bible doctrines can be used as one of the evidences of Christian principles:
“...what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? “ (1 Cor.14:6).
Webster’s dictionary defines “doctrine” as “a principle accepted as authoritative.” In other words, a Christian, Biblical doctrine, is supposed to reflect, a living principle about God Himself, that is 100% reliable, and trustworthy. A Christian doctrine is indeed, “authoritative.”
Christian doctrines, are wonderful reflections on the Person of Jesus Christ, and our heavenly Father. I think Jesus best sums up the importance of doctrines that follow this basic criteria:
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (Jo.17:3). A doctrine that does not help one to do this, is either not Christian, or, it is not properly understood. Perhaps, this one principle, would help explain many such fights over things like When did Christ first enter the Most Holy?
Christians must get doctrinal. Christians who are truly doctrinal, in the Biblical way, are totally united, and of one mind. (see 1 Cor.12:8-14, Isa.52:8, 1 Cor.3:8-9, Phil.2:1-8).
The Bible says “Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; CONTINUE IN THEM, for in doing this; thou shalt BOTH save thyself, AND THEM THAT HEAR THEE.” (1 Tim.4:6). How is this verse different from what everyone is saying about “getting doctrinal?” Why is it that anyone would be saved through a doctrine?
One thing is for sure. There is obviously, from this and many other verses, a definite, strong relationship, between the Words “doctrine,” and “salvation.”
As we previously mentioned, 1 Cor.14:6 tells us that “doctrine,” is one of several ways by which God Himself communicates with people. God uses Christian doctrines, as one of the evidences of Christian principles, and let us recall: Christian principles ALWAYS relate to us Biblical facts about God’s character. (Jo.17:3). According to the Bible, and SOP, doctrines are literal, direct revelations from God, to people who are open to His Word.
Some appropriate caution now needs to be brought forth. “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not IN THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST, hath not God.” (2 Jo.9-11, 1 Jo.5:11-12). Does this not directly oppose the world wide call for de-emphasizing doctrines?
There are three, main tests, that are surefire ways to see if a doctrine is truly Christian, or not:
1/ Is it based on the Bible only? (Isa.8:20, Ps.119:105).
2/ Is it strictly centering in, or reflective of, Christ, and Him crucified? (Gal.6:14)
3/ Is it a doctrine of true Godliness? Does the doctrine challenge one to live a life that reflects their love for God, their fellow human beings, or, even for themselves, at times?
(Mat.22:37-40).
Galatians 6:14, in particular, is extremely crucial to determine if a doctrine is a Christian doctrine: “God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of Jesus Christ our Lord...”
Now, if anything is, this verse, is most certainly doctrinal! Christ crucified on the cross is a doctrine, just as are many other facets of His love to us. Ellen G White has something interesting to say about the doctrine of Christ, and Him crucified:
“There is one, great, central Truth, to be kept ever before the mind, in the searching of the Scriptures: “Christ, and Him crucified. ALL OTHER TRUTHS, (doctrines), are invested with power and influence, corresponding to their relation to this theme!” (Man.31, 1890).
How many of your beliefs are you NOW able to fully relate to this grand theme?
“CHRIST IN ALL THE DOCTRINES,” must be the Christian’s watchword. After all; “What shall it profit you except [one] shall speak to you, either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or, by doctrine,” (1 Cor.14:6) unless you can relate every doctrine you hold dear, to the central pillar of Christ and Him crucified?
As a Christian, you will be seen relating all of your doctrines to the Bible’s litmus test for "Christ in the doctrines;" and you will be able to tell people what every doctrine you believe, says about the person and character, of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, or, God the Father. :)
------------------
"...We believe that through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved..." (Acts 15:11).
Your brother in Christ
David T. Battler
"Chapter 5. What Is Christian in Adventism? (1886-1919)
"The early Seventh-day Adventists appreciated their identity. They loved their great pillar doctrines of the Second Advent, the Sabbath, the heavenly sanctuary, and the state of the dead....But in the process of emphasizing what was Adventist in Adventism they had largely lost sight of the Christian aspects of their theology. They would seriously face that issue in the late 1880s and the 1890s.
"A Setting for Disagreement
"During the late 1880s Seventh-day Adventism would face a new identity crisis. The best way into the topic is to recognize that Adventist theology consists of two types of related truth. The first category includes those doctrines Adventists share with other Christians, such as salvation by grace alone through faith, the importance of the Bible, and the historic role of Jesus as the world's Redeemer. The second doctrinal category includes the distinctive doctrines of Adventism....
"Since nineteenth-century Adventists lived in a largely Christian culture, they tended not to emphasize those beliefs they held in common with other Christians. After all, why preach saving grace to Baptists, who already believed it? The important thing, so the logic ran, was to preach the distinctively Adventist truths so that people would doctrinally convert to Seventh-day Adventism.
"Forty years of such evangelism led to a kind of separation between Adventism and basic Christianity. Thus Ellen White could write in relation to the 1888 General Conference session (held in Minneapolis, Minnesota) that Adventists needed to preach the 'message of the gospel of grace' so that 'the world should no longer say that Seventh-day Adventists talk the law, but do not teach or believe Christ' (TM 92). In short, by the late 1880s Adventism needed a course correction in its theology.
"Two relatively young preachers from California--Alonzo T. Jones and Ellet J. Waggoner--would trigger that adjustment. The young men came to prominence because of their teachings on the identification of the ten horns of Daniel 7 and the nature of the law in Galatians. General Conference President George I Butler and Review and Herald editor Uriah Smith vigorously opposed their theological innovations. The struggle that began in the mid-1880s climaxed at the General Conference session of 1888.
"The long-term significance of the 1888 meetings...had very little to do with either the identity of the law in Galatians or the ten horns but a great deal to do with a renewed Adventist emphasis on the plan of salvation. Waggoner, in fact utilized the podium at Minneapolis to move beyond the rather restricted Galatians issue and toward an exposition of righteousness by faith in Christ....
"The older men feared that the new emphases that Jones and Waggoner were bringing into the church would mute or even destroy Adventism's distinctive teachings....The question of What is Adventist in Adventism? found itself threatened by a question of What is Christian in Adventism?...
"The Minneapolis General Conference session proved to be one of the major turning points in the development of Seventh-day Adventist theology. At least four important theological isues flowed from the meetings: (1) a reexamination of the grounds for authority in settling theological and biblical issues, (2) a fuller understanding of righteousness by faith as it relates to the third angel's message, (3) significant developments in Adventism's position on the Trinity, the divine nature of Christ, and the personhood of the Holy spirit, and (4) explorations into the human nature of Christ...."
"Still a People of the Book? The Issue of Authority
"By the late 1880s the Seventh-day Adventist leaders seemed to have forgotten the radical, biblical, sola scriptura roots of the founders and their message. After 40 years of denominational existence some of the leadership were more than willing to use sources of doctrinal authority that the founders of their message would have rejected.
"Sensing the problem, Ellen White endeavored to uphold the centrality of biblical authority in Adventism in a letter she wrote in August 1888 to the delegates to the forthcoming General Conference session. 'Search the Scriptures carefully,' she penned, 'to see what is truth. The truth can lose nothing by close investigation. Let the word of God speak for itself, let it be its own interpreter....There is a most wonderful laziness that is indulged in by a large class of our ministers who are willing others [presumably Butler and Smith] should search the Scriptures for them; and they take the truth from their lips as a positive fact, but they do not know it to be Bible truth through their own individual research and by the deep conviction of the Spirit of God upon their hearts and minds....Many, many will be lost because they have not studied their Bibles upon their knees, with earnest prayer....The word of God is the great detector of error; to it...everything must be brought. The Bible must be our standard for every doctrine and practice' (EGW to Brethren, Aug. 5, 1888)."
Let me pause here to say that this is a very interesting study (to me) into how the early pioneers came to develop and solidify the foundational pillar doctrines of the church. If there are no major objections from readers to our continuing to explore and investigate these developments, we will continue with our study.
M.A.
The message that came forth in 1888 was centered in Christ. It revealed His love and His power. The church was dry and dead and in need of the grace of Jesus in the heart. The same condition can be seen today. We need Jesus in our hearts. We may, and we must teach doctrine, but it will do no good without the Spirit of Christ, which is love.
I just want to keep the writings of Ellen White in their proper context, especially concerning the condition of the church in 1888. We have much light on this and it will benefit all as we look at this question of "doctrine" and "love". :) I am not sure where Elder Knight was coming from when he wrote this, but the church did not accept the teachings of righteousness by faith and continued in the Laodicean condition.
We might share some of the testimonies from this period as we go along. We then shall see what God saw and what He directed the prophet to write. This seems to be in keeping with the topic.
Richard
"The question of What is Adventist in Adventism? found itself threatened by a question of What is Christian in Adventism?..."
Just a quick note for now...I don't believe for a minute, that any SDA doctrine can be found to be un-Christian; that is, not centred in "Christ and Him crucified," as one of the posts above states.
I think there are always some sort of ongoing influences that seem to make certain doctrines as less palatable, but as Richard has alluded to the fact; I believe that any problems someone has with one of the doctrines, is usually, in reality, not a problem concerning the doctrines. There is usually a problem with the person.
I think that some people don't really understand what doctrines are, or how they were/are intended to be used. For eg., if I was to go to the bedside of a person, who was dying of cancer; what might happen, if I were to whisper in her ear, all about the Mark Of The Beast?
Or, how might things turn out, if I went into the home of an individual who had just lost two children in a terrible car crash, (true story), and I was planning on doing the lesson about the Mark Of The Beast; but I changed course, when I found out about this tragedy, and did a study on the state of the dead? This really happened, and the lady's grief was turned to joy.
Not only do we need to know the doctrines; but we need to know how to use them as God intended.
Perhaps, this was some of the problem in 1888?
“Messages of every order and kind have been urged upon Seventh Day Adventists, to take the place of the Truth which, point by point, has been sought out by prayerful study, and testified to by the miracle working power of the Lord. But, the waymarks which have made us what we are, are to be preserved, and as God has signified through His Word, and the testimony of His Spirit; He calls upon us to hold firmly, with the grip of faith, to the fundamental principles, that are based upon unquestionable authority.” (Counsels To Editors And Writers, 1946 ed., pg.52).
------------------
"I urge you brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions, and put obstacles in your way, that are contrary to the teaching you have learned." (Rom.16:17).
Christian Soldier
"In spite of such straightforward counsel, the Seventh-day Adventist traditionalists appealed to at least four forms of human authority to settle the biblical and theological issues troubling the denomination in 1888. The first centered on expert opinion, which both Smith and Butler attempted to use to resolve controverted points....
"A second area of human authority centered on authoritative position. Butler, as president of the denomination, particularily found himself susceptible to that temptation. Mrs. White, on the other hand opposed such a move. Soon after the 1888 meetings she would write that Butler 'thinks his position gives him such power that his voice is infallible' (EGW to MW, Nov. 4, 1888)....Ellen White pointed out in December 1888 that 'we should not consider that either Elder Butler of Elder Smith are the guardians of the doctrines for Seventh-day Adventists, and that no one may dare to express an idea that differs from theirs. My cry has been: Investigate the Scriptures for yourselves....No man is to be authority for us' (EGW to WMH, Dec. 9, 1888).
"A third invalid use of authority concerned a reliance on Adventist tradition to settle a point....
"Waggoner and Jones, of course, rejected the appeal to tradition. Ellen White stood in the reformers' corner. 'As a people,' she warned, 'we are certainly in great danger, if we are not constantly guarded, of considering our ideas, because long cherished, to be Bible doctrines and on every point infallible, and measuring everyone by the rule of our interpretation of Bible truth. This is our danger, and this would be the greatest evil that could ever come to us as a people' (MS 37, c. 1890).
"A final category of human authority the Smith-Butler group advocated in their attempt to maintain traditional Adventism was their desire for a voted creedlike statement that would set the pre-1888 theology in concrete. Jones, Waggoner, and Ellen White and her son Willie successfully withstood all such attempts.
"Beyond appeals to human authority, the Smith-Butler faction attempted to settle the theological and biblical issues by calling on the authority of Ellen White....
"Not only did Ellen White decline to settle the biblical issue, but she went so far as to infer to the delegates at the Minneapolis meetings on October 24, 1888, that it was providential that she had lost the testimony to J. H. Waggoner (E. J.'s father) in which she purportedly resolved the issue once and for all in the 1850s. 'God has a purpose in this. He wants us to go to the Bible and get the Scripture evidence' (MS 9, 1888).
"...she noted that it was providential that she could not find her testimony to J. H. Waggoner on the topic. Some would have misused it to keep people from exploring God's Word. Apparently Morrison's appeal to Sketches to proved his point did not impress her. We have no indication that she considered the matter settled by that method [J. H. Morrison's misuse of quotations from Mrs. White's Sketches From the Life of Paul], nor did she quote her own writings at Minneapolis to decide any of the theological, historical, or biblical issues. Her writings had their purpose, but as she saw it, they were not to take a superior position to the Bible by providing an infallible commentary on it.
"Waggoner, Jones, and the Whites stood in harmony on the proper use of authority in resloving theological issues. All held that the Bible was the only determiner of Christian belief. As a result, they were united against repeated attempts of the traditionalists to utilize anything else to settle biblical disputes.
"Ellen White especially insisted on the need for Bible study in dealing with theological controversies. On April 5, 1887, for example, she wrote that 'we want Bible evidence for every point we advance' (EGW to GIB and US, Apr. 5, 1887). A few months later she noted that 'the word of God is the great detector of error; to it we believe everything must be brought. The Bible must be our standard for every doctrine and practice.
"'...We are to receive no one's opinion without comparing it with the Scriptures. Here is divine authority which is supreme in matters of faith' (EGW to Brethren, Aug. 5, 1888).
To be continued.
M.A.
"Just a quick note for now...I don't believe for a minute, that any SDA doctrine can be found to be un-Christian...."
Christian Soldier, the author did not make the statement for that purpose. The statement was made in reference to the following opening comment by Dr. Knight to Chapter 5 on page 90:
"The early Seventh-day Adventists appreciated their identity. They loved their great pillar doctrines of the Second Advent, the Sabbath, the heavenly sanctuary, and the state of the dead. And they saw the integrating focal point of their theology to be the chain of prophecy that ran from Revelation 11;19 through 14:20. They had no doubt that Adventism was a movement of prophecy. But in the process of emphasizing what was Adventist in Adventism they had largely lost sight of THE CHRISTIAN ASPECTS of their theology. They would seriously face that issue in the late 1880s and the 1890s" (Emphasis mine throughout, unless noted otherwise).
This is the reason the author made the statement you quoted, as we continue with his presentation.
"Another problematic aspect of the post-1888 years would be the development of some less than healthy practices in the use of Ellen White's writings, habits that many Adventists have carried into the present century. At the forefront of that problem was A. T. Jones. During the 1890s the influential Jones would provide Adventists with four false leads that contradicted the position of the founders and Ellen White herself on the authority and use of the modern gift of prophecy.
"The most basic error in Jones's adherence to Ellen White's writings in the 1890s was his position on their relationship to the Bible. At the 1893 General Conference session he used passages from her works as 'texts' to base some of his sermons on, a practice he approved of when 'preaching to our own people' but not when addressing non-Adventists. Four years later he would refer to Mrs. White's writings as the 'Word' (1893 GCB 39, 69, 358; 1897 GCB 30). Then in his 1894 Week of Prayer reading entitled 'The Gifts: Their Presence and Object' he set forth the idea that the only 'right use of the Testimonies' was to 'study the Bible THROUGH THEM' (Author's emphasis). By the time Jones finished he had set forth Ellen White as an 'infallible' commentary on the Bible and thereby subordinated the Bible to her writings (HM Extra, December 1894, 12). That, of course, was the very position she had rejected at Minneapolis.
"A second error that Jones imputed to Ellen White's writings was verbal inspiration, while a third was that her writings were INERRANT OR BEYOND FACTUAL ERROR. She rejected both positions as we shall see in chapter 6. In the early twentieth century, when faced with the facts that inspiration did not guarantee infallible information in every detail, Jones's faith in Mrs. White shattered, AND HE BECAME HER MOST VOCAL ENEMY.
"A final false lead that Jones left for succeeding generations of Adventists is the idea that the historical and literary contexts of statements are not important in understanding Ellen White's writings. As he put it, 'I never explain the Testimonies. I believe them' (J. H. Kellogg, 'Report on the Work of the Sanitarium, Dec. 28, 1905). While that sounds like simple faith, it actually provided him with an avenue to contradict her ideas. Jones had adopted a legalistic use of language that emphasized the exact words a person used, while it excluded any interpretation of what they may have meant in their liteary contexts. By that technique he could isolate words and sentences and make Ellen White and others say JUST THE OPPOSITE of what they intended (for more on A. T. Jones's misuse of Ellen White's writings, see From 1888 to Apostasy: The Case of A. T. Jones, 230-236).
"Mrs. White, as we might expect, diametrically opposed such a hermeneutic. She regularly admonished her readers to take TIME, PLACE, AND CONTEXTUAL FACTORS into consideration in interpreting her writings (see Reading Ellen White, 77-100)."
To be continued.
M.A.
"Uplift Jesus: Righteousness by Faith and the Third Angel's Message
"A second theological issue the denomination had to deal with in the 1888 period was the plan of salvation. As Ellen White put it: 'The Lord in His great mercy sent a most precious message to His people through Elders Waggoner and Jones. This message was to bring more prominently before the world the uplifted Saviour, the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. It presented justification through faith in the Surety; it invited the people to receive the righteousness of Christ, which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. MANY [ADVENTISTS] HAD LOST SIGHT OF JESUS (Emphasis mine throughout). They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine person, His merits, and His changeless love for the human family....This is the message that God commanded to be given to the world. It is the third angel's message, which is to be proclaimed with a loud voice, and attended with the outpouring of His Spirit in a large measure' (TM 91, 92).
"That endorsement of Jones and Waggoner did not mean that Ellen White agreed with everything that the two reformers taught, even in the area of righteousness by faith. In early November 1888, for example, she told the delegates at Minneapolis that some things that Waggoner had presented on the law in Galatians 'do not harmonize with the understanding I have had on this subject.' Later in the same talk she claimed that 'some interpretations of Scripture, given by Dr. Waggoner, I do not regard as correct' (MS 15, 1888). W. C. White substantiated his mother's position. He wrote to his wife from Minneapolis that some had jumped to the conclusion 'that she endorses all his views.' He went on to note that 'I could prove all this to be f[alse]' (WCW to MW, Oct. 27, 1888)....
"Looking back at the 1888 meetings [Ellen White] penned in her diary that some feared that the church was 'carrying the subject of justification by faith altogether too far, and not dwelling enough on the law. She then complained that many Adventist ministers presented their 'subjects in an argumentative way, and SCARCELY MENTION... the saving power of the Redeemer.' They and their message were 'destitute of the saving blood of Jesus Christ.' 'Of all professed Christians, Seventh-day Adventists SHOULD BE FOREMOST in uplifting Christ before the world.' Adventists should preach both the law and the gospel--'blended, [they] will convict of sin.' 'God's law,' she asserted, 'while condemning sin, points to the gospel....In no discourse are they to be divorced.' Too many Adventists had not seen that 'Jesus Christ is the glory of the law.' She went on to note that one of the great lacks of Adventism was that too many Adventists had a 'correct theory [doctrinal understanding] of the truth,' but had not brought the attributes of Christ's loving character into their hearts and practical life (MS 21, 1891). In a similar vein, in November 1888, Ellen White wrote: 'My burden during the meeting was to present Jesus and His love before the brethren, for I saw marked evidences that many had not the spirit of Christ' (MS 24, 1888).
To be continued.
M.A.
Richard
"Uplift Jesus: The Trinity, full Divinity of Jesus, and Personhood of the Holy Spirit
"The discussion of the issue of salvation during the 1888 period heightened the awareness of some Adventists of the need to correct the denomination's views on the Godhead. Some gradually came to realize that the denominations's traditional position on the topic was inadequate. In short, Adventism needed an understanding of a Christ and a Holy Spirit able to meet the demands of its enriched grasp of the plan of salvation....
"By the beginning of the twentieth century inadequate and false teachings on the Holy Spirit would lead to two quite different problems in the church. On the one hand there sprang up the pentecostal-like Holy Flesh Movement. On the other was the pantheistic teachings of Waggoner and J. H. Kellogg. In response to those theological abberations there would be an attempt to clarify the biblical understanding of the Trinity and related doctrines. However, the new theological moves were far more than just a reaction to those turn-of-the-century problems. They were an outgrowth of the need for a more adequate understanding of the Godhead related to the new emphasis on the plan of salvation raised in 1888.
"Interestingly enough, it was not the theologians on either side of the 1888 controversy who would point Adventism back to a biblical view of the Godhead but Ellen White....
"While she never used the word 'Trinity' she did claim that 'there are three living persons of the heavenly trio...the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit' (Ev 615). In 1901 she wrote of 'the eternal heavenly dignitaries---God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit' (Ev 616). Again, she repeatedly referred to the Holy Spirit as the 'Third Person of the Godhead' (e.g., ibid. 617; DA 691)....
"Ellen White was also adament on the personhood of the Holy Spirit. She held that He was a 'divine person,' 'as much a person as God is a person' (Ev 617, 616). To her the Spirit was the 'Third Person of the Godhead' (DA 671).
"Mrs. White, as noted above, pointed Adventism in new directions with her statements on the Trinity, the full divinity of Christ, and the personhood of the Holy Spirit. They eventually encouraged other Adventists to explore the Bible on those topics...."
What impresses me mostly, as I continue to read the history of the early church, is how the Guiding Hand of the Lord was leading the early pioneers through the very delicate and dangerous "mine field" of error and confusion that the enemy had devised. My heart was touched in a special way as I realized how influential and popular ministers could have led this church astray (just like today), but IT WAS NOT TO BE because God in His Goodness and Mercy revealed to His faithful followers the Truth that leads to eternal life.
There is a lesson in all of this for us today. That lesson is: the Word of God is OUR ONLY SAFEGUARD against all of the confusion and erroneous theories that abound in the Seventh-day Adventist Church today. The Bible is our Instruction Book as to how we may unmistakenly get from this world to the Earth Made New. The theological wrangling and discourses of men will avail us nothing unless they are TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY based upon the unadulterated Word of God as It reads.
M.A.
"I realized how influential and popular ministers could have led this church astray (just like today), but IT WAS NOT TO BE because God in His Goodness and Mercy revealed to His faithful followers the Truth that leads to eternal life."
I just had to say a loud AMEN! to this. :)
------------------
"...We believe that through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved..." (Acts 15:11).
Your brother in Christ
David T. Battler
It is very sad indeed to see many false theories coming to light in God’s Remnant Church.
“False theories, clothed with garments of light, will be presented to God’s people…It is fearfully dangerous now to be unable to discern the Truth.” (R&H, Oct.13, 1904).
“The time has come when we cannot depend upon the doctrine that comes to our ears, unless we see that it harmonizes with the Word of God. There are dangerous hearsies THAT WILL BE PRESENTED AS BIBLE DOCTRINES, and we are to become aquainted with the Bible so that we may know how to meet them. The faith OF EVERYONE, will [thus] pass through a trial of close criticism.” (R&H, May 3rd, 1887).
There are many interesting and inspiring promises to meet this last day danger of heasies invading the ranks. I look at my two sons, and think of this one. Please add some promises to this one that have been important to you:
“At the eleventh hour…sacrificing men will step into the places made vacant by those who could not be fitted for a place in the heavenly temple…He will call upon the youth to fill up the places made vacant by deaths and apostacies.” (Letter 98a, 1897).
“The faith that strengthened Habakkuk and all the holy and just in those days of deep trial, was the same faith that sustains God’s people today. In the darkest hours, under circumstances the most forbidding, the Christian believer may keep his soul stayed upon the Source of all light and power.
Day by day, through faith in God, his hope and courage may be renewed: “The just shall live BY HIS FAITH.” In the service of God, there need be no despondency, no wavering, no fear.” (PK 386, 387).
So how can we keep our doctrines from influences that would change them?
What are some promises "to him that overcometh?" that you could share with us here?
------------------
"...We believe that through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved..." (Acts 15:11).
Your brother in Christ
David T. Battler
[This message has been edited by DavidTBattler (edited 05-04-2001).]
"Since nineteenth-century Adventists lived in a largely Christian culture, they tended not to emphasize those beliefs they held in common with other Christians. After all why preach saving grace to Baptists, who already believed it? The important thing, so the logic ran, was to preach the distinctively Adventist truths so that people would doctrinally convert to Seventh-day Adventism."
But in the process of converting to Seventh-day Adventism, the all-important question is: would there be a corresponding conversion to Jesus Christ? The problem with this is many of us who are Seventh-day Adventists know that doctrines aren't going to mean very much where our soul salvation is concerned unless they point us to Jesus Christ and the Word of God as the means whereby we are saved. On the other hand, we cannot accurately judge what Adventist doctrines can and cannot do because we are not all led to Christ the same way. Nor is our understanding of these doctrines the same. Someone may clearly see the workings of Jesus Christ in the 2300 day prophecy, for example, whereas another may not. But that is not really our concern. Our primary responsibility is to SOW THE SEEDS of truth. IT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT who works upon the heart of an individual and leads him/her to Christ. We are unable to do this because ONLY THE HOLY SPIRIT KNOWS OUR HEARTS and knows what we stand in need of individually. This is why we are to judge not, lest we be also judged (Matt. 7:1).
During this Third Quarter, I believe our Sabbath School Lessons are going to bring out and make clear how the "pillars of our faith" do indeed contain within them clear references to Jesus Christ and how He can save us from the "guttermost" to the "uttermost."
M.A.
Richard
We are truly in the last days of this earth's history when we have begun to hear less and less from those in our churches who talk about Jesus with enthusiasm and excitement. What has happened? We know what has happened. As with Israel in this quarter's Sabbath School lessons, many in the church in leadership and followship capacities have become complacent with the spiritual "status quo" and are thereby too busy engaging in their day-to-day going about and enjoying all that life has to offer to be overly concerned with spiritual matters as they should.
As with the September 11th tragedy, most people do not see a need to call upon Jesus until there is a crisis. When there is a major disaster, we suddenly find people praying and calling upon the Name of Jesus who did not have the time to do either prior to.
In many (too many) Seventh-day Adventist churches, more often than not, we today do not hear the Word of God preached from the desk as we should. It is most unfortunate there are many people who are leaving this church because of the cold, lifeless sermons preached from many Adventist pulpits that are devoid of the HOLY GHOST POWER of saving grace. Why do these individuals not understand they shall have to answer to an angry God for being derelict in their duty? The only answer I can surmise is: THEY DON'T BELIEVE!!! Or, at least as they should. As I told an individual in another forum, I don't want to be within 100,000 light years of those who have robbed God of His precious ones with spiritless and lifeless sermons when He is seen coming in the clouds of His Glory.
Even more important than talking about Jesus, we need to do what He says. This is the major problem with those of us who profess to be Christians today. We proclaim loudly and with much verbosity how we love Jesus. But my Bible tells me Jesus says: "If you love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15). What I glean from this is Jesus is saying IT IS NOT POSSIBLE to truly love Him and not do the things He requires of us in His Word.
We have over 500 different denominations and religious cults on the face of the earth today because mankind has decided in these instances that it wants to serve God in a way of it's own devising. "Have it your way" may be fine at Burger King, but it will not work for those who are desirous of being saved. Where our salvation is concerned, IT MUST BE GOD'S WAY or no way at all. From the time of Adam down to the present, it appears that much of humankind has not learned that simple fact yet.
As we approach the Sabbath Hours here, may all have a Happy and Spirit-filled Sabbath.
M.A.
Many years ago (some of the older members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church should remember), wherever members of the church went, many of them always had a tract to pass out as they socialized and interacted with various individuals with whom they came in contact. These dear ones, with faces that radiated with Heavenly joy, impressed me as having a GENUINE BURDEN for souls so much so until they were willing to take out the time to pass out a spirit-filled tract in shopping centers, malls, etc., and anywhere they came in contact with people. Back to the present.
It has been in the back of my mind for quite some time to pass out Amazing Facts Bible Study Guides in various neighborhoods by placing a single guide in the mailbox of each home visited (just like old times!!). I made the notion a reality by recently ordering and receiving over thirty dollars worth of study guides to distribute sometime between today and January 1st.
The unusualness of the message is my request at this time for all who love and look for His appearing to JOIN WITH ME!!! Let us TRULY ring out the old year and ring in the new by inundating our various selected neighborhoods with WORDS OF LIFE by way of some spirit-filled tract, pamphlet, or brochure. Most churches should have something on this order to pass out (usually gathering dust in some storage room). This type of activity gives us an opportunity to witness for the Lord by permitting the tract to do the talking.
Again, let us TRULY ring out the old year and ring in the new with wonderful Words of life that just might make all the difference in the life of some man or woman, boy or girl.
M.A.
With wide-eyed trepidation of expecting the worst, I read your opening comment to the above message, it implying something about your message would sound unusual to the readers. Thinking of all sort of weird possible combinations (perhaps he's going to swear off the faith, or hand in his church membership and join the Mormons, or even worse get remarried :o )I read further and was I everso happily reasurred as you told about the giving out of tracts. Phewwwww ! What a relief it wasn't what I thought.
Now that's not so bad :) As a matter of fact I think it is just wonderful. A tract in the purse or pocket, stuffed there in a hurry by the receiver who later in the bus or train pulls it out to read (because of wanting to beat some time before getting off at his stop) has helped some get a thought for the day in direction of God. That' preparing the soul for more of God's ways.
I just spent 6 days with 30 Adventists here in this conference house listening to our main speaker for the meetings, John Bishop, telling the in's and out's of witnessing for Jesus. We went door to door putting tracts in the mail boxes just last monday, which was Christmas eve, as practical appliance of our teaching sessions.
So God bless you in your tract-handing-out-times and God bless the one's receiving them from you with the truth of it's message. And God, please bless those in their Holland homes reading the tracts we left for them in their mailboxes.
:) Joan
WE DON'T NEED ANYONE TO REMIND US!!! Nor do we need to look around to see how many we can get to go with us. Instead, the true, faithful, and loyal soldier in the army of the Lord will make himself/herself A COMMITTE OF ONE and proceed accordingly. Let us therefore not sit by idle and wonder: Who will go? Or, who shall we send? Instead, let us BOLDLY step forth and answer: Here am I. Lord, send me! (Isa. 6:8).
M.A.
"The Catholic theologians took care of that by their theory of the 'Immaculate Conception' of Mary in the womb of her mother. So Mary did not have 'original sin' to transmit to her holy fetus."
To which my reply was:
This is not how original sin was not transmitted to the Holy fetus. Nowhere in Scripture can we find that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was anything other than an ordinary female human being who was a virgin. One cannot find anywhere in Scripture where she possessed a special "holy spiritual birth." Mary was a sinner SAVED BY GRACE just as all others are who will be saved. To try to insinuate that somehow Mary was anything else is to teach that which cannot be substantiated by the Word of God.
In Matthew 1:20, the Bible tells us:
"...the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."
The Bible very clearly tells us that Jesus was conceived OF THE HOLY GHOST. Mary served only as the medium or the means whereby He came into the world. He was, in other words, born as all other children were, with one exception. He was not brought into the world as a result of intimacy with Joseph or any other man. HE WAS CONCEIVED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Mary had to be pure and untouched sexually by any male because Scripture said of her that:
"...Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a Son, and shall call his name Immanuel" (Isa. 7:14).
There are those who will argue that because Mary brought Jesus into the world, she was involved in His conception. That is true, in part. Mary was involved only from the physical standpoint, but not the spiritual. It is of paramount importance that we understand sin is a spiritual act committed in the flesh against God who is a Spirit (John 4:24). Jesus came into the world to destroy sin IN THE FLESH by the life He lived (Rom 8:3). And Jesus overcame sin in the flesh BY THE SAME MEANS we have today: By "It is written" (The Bible) and the Holy Spirit. This is why Jesus had to be born in the manner in which He was born. He took upon Himself sinful flesh only in that sin had been committed in the flesh in the person of Adam, Eve, and all other humans. The bottom line is: He Himself NEVER, EVER had one taint of sin. Nor did He sin. Sin was committed in the flesh. Therefore Jesus destroyed it in the flesh by the life He lived.
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:22.
Salvation is very simple; and always has been. We humans are the ones who have made it difficult by our futile attempt to erect our own "towers of Babel." Jesus DEMONSTRATED in the life He lived how to be saved. The Bible makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR that He overcame sin by overcoming temptation. When the devil tempted Christ at His weakest moment, He did not respond by saying "I guess," or "I suppose," or "I believe." He overcame the devil and temptation by saying to him: IT IS WRITTEN!!! The Word of God HAS ALWAYS BEEN the Key to eternal life through Jesus Christ. The same thing it took for Adam and all the redeemed to be saved is THE SAME THING it takes for us today: UNRESERVED OBEDIENCE to Jesus Christ and the Word of God by way of the Holy Spirit.
M.A.
"Are you saying that if I trust in Jesus alone for my salvation, but do not return to SDAism's distinctive beliefs, that I cannot be saved?"
My reply was, what I am saying is the distinctive doctrinal beliefs that are held by the Seventh-day Adventist Church exalt Jesus Christ and the Word of God as the only means of salvation. If you have not done so already, I strongly suggest that you get a copy of the book entitled What Seventh-day Adventists Believe...A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines and read it in its entirety. In it I am convinced that if you read this book WITHOUT BIAS toward it, or without being influenced by the prejudices of another, you will discover that what is written therein is Christ-centered.
It is not a matter of returning to "SDAism" in order to be saved because denominations do not save. What Seventh-day Adventism does better than any other church is to point one to THE SOURCE OF SALVATION: JESUS CHRIST. Salvation is possible ONLY in Jesus Christ, and most informed Seventh-day Adventists know this. They also know that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is not perfect because we humans in it are not perfect. But the good news is WE CAN BE MADE PERFECT through Him who is perfect: Jesus Christ IF we would put on the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 13:14) by ordering our lives after His Divine Likeness. But, unfortunately, many are unwilling to do this because THEY LOVE SELF MORE THAN THEY DO GOD. As a result, many rebel against, find fault with, and become enemies of THE STRAIGHT TESTIMONY and Bible-based doctrines upon which this church was founded BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO DO THEM!!!
M.A.
In the wonderful prayer that He prayed for His disciples, and, in turn for you and I, He said, "Sanctify (set them apart) them through thy truth; thy word is truth." Jn.17:17. That is what I want, the TRUTH, found in Jesus, and the only place I have heard it taught is from the Seventh-Day Adventist church.
In Christ's Love,
Dora
God in His Supreme Wisdom knew that all who were truly honest and sincere about being saved would not come into a SAVING KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING of What He requires of us unto salvation at the same time. As a result, in His Supreme Patience, He has given unto us something very wonderful whereby, without it, it would be impossible to be saved. IT IS KNOWN AS TIME!!! Every Christian can look back over his/her life and can VERY CLEARLY SEE how God had led him/her EACH AND EVERY STEP ALONG THE WAY to the point where he/she is presently in his/her Christian experience. You pointed that out in your post above when you elaborated on what happened to you in 1986.
The good news for the Christian is time shall not last always because sin and suffering shall not last always. Soon and very soon, God is going to cut the work of salvation short in righteousness (Rom. 9:28). Soon, all will have decided WHICH GOD they will serve: whether the God who created the heavens and the earth, or the god of self. When that has come to pass, and the fate of all shall have been decided, then one can rest assured He that shall come will come, AND SHALL NOT TARRY! (Heb. 10:37).
M.A.
There is a very critical point that needs to be emphasized that is of paramount importance in our understanding of how we are saved. And that point is, there must be A PERFECT BALANCE between the law and the Gospel in the life of all who expect to be saved. As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith (faith in Jesus) without works (obedience to God's Word) is dead also.
Heretofore in the past, some Seventh-day Adventists have placed heavy emphasis on church doctrines which emphasize "obey and live" (the law) that were devoid of a corresponding emphasis on salvation through Jesus Christ (the Gospel). I believe that the greatest need for Seventh-day Adventists today is TO FOCUS MORE ON JESUS and establish in the life the connection between the righteousness of Christ and obedience to God's Word. There must be a HARMONIOUS RELATIONSHIP between the two that is perfectly balanced. EVERY CHURCH DOCTRINE must be centered in Jesus Christ if it is to have saving grace, as illustrated by the following examples.
1. When one is asked: "Why do you keep the Ten Commandments?" Our answer should be: We keep God's Ten Commandments BECAUSE WE FOLLOW JESUS who kept God's Ten Commandments. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 that He came not to destroy the law BUT TO FULFILL IT. And He fulfilled God's Law BY LIVING IT OUT in His daily living. Therefore, AS FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST, we are to do likewise.
2. When one is asked: "Why do you worship on Saturday?" Our answer should be: We worship on the seventh day of the week BECAUSE WE FOLLOW JESUS who also worshipped on the seventh day of the week the Bible refers to as the Sabbath Day (Luke 4:16). The Sabbath is not just for the Jews. The Bible says THE SABBATH IS MADE FOR MAN (Mark 2:27). After Jesus established His Church (Matt. 16:18), both Jews and Gentiles worshipped on the Sabbath Day as Christians (Acts 13:42; 18:4)
The bottom line is: THERE IS NO SALVATION WITHOUT JESUS (Acts 4:12). Church doctrines do not save. What we must do, as described in the examples above, is to put Jesus Christ AT THE CENTER of all that we believe unto salvation. Christ MUST NOT be made secondary to theories and doctrinal arguments. Church doctrines may be correct, and even true, but they are meaningless AND HAVE NO REDEEMING VALUE unless presented within the framework of Jesus Christ. As the words of the song correctly emphasize:
"Jesus is the Answer, for the world today; above Him there's no other: JESUS IS THE WAY!!!"
M.A.
Without Jesus in the heart, the law cannot be kept in an unselfish manner. The law reaches to the intent of the heart and a selfish heart cannot keep the law with the proper motive. All is selfishness. As we come to Christ and receive His nature and a new heart we are given power to keep the law in the love of God. The law is written upon the table of the heart. :)
Richard
[This message has been edited by Richard Myers (edited 02-20-2002).]
Why is it there is such a problem of the Spirit of Christ BEING DEMONSTRATED in many of our congregations today? I believe one reason is because it has not been emphasized from the desk as it should be. Here, I believe, is the main problem: Those of us who are supposed to be leaders among God's people are supposed to LEAD BY EXAMPLE!!! A long-time pastor-evangelist in this church once rightly remarked: "God is not interested in our talk; He's interested IN OUR WALK!"
Another reason I believe the Spirit of Christ is not realized in many of our churches as it should is because many RESIST THAT SPIRIT, preferring to manifest ANOTHER SPIRIT in its stead. It is not because they do not know what "Thus saith the Lord." THEY KNOW, but choose to do not!
In James 1:22 we are reminded:
"But be ye DOERS OF THE WORD and not just hearers only, deceiving your own selves."
In other words, knowledge of, or mere mental assent to the truth, WILL AVAIL US NOTHING. There must also be the corresponding PRACTICAL APPLICATION of that same truth in the life of the Christian if it is to have redeeming value.
M.A.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 1:1.
From this verse, I hope that we are beginning to understand how we are brought into oneness with God through Jesus Christ. In John 4:24, the Bible tells us:
"God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
Romans 8:3 and 4 cast further light upon what it means to worship God in Spirit and in truth. They read:
"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit."
How did Christ condemn sin in the flesh? BY REFUSING TO YIELD TO IT in the flesh. Thus proving that the accusations brought by the devil against God and His Laws were untrue. Romans 8:8 sheds even more light on human effort and pleasing God:
"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
In my Bible, the phrase "in the flesh" is translated to read "obey their human nature," which renders the verse to read: So they that OBEY THEIR HUMAN NATURE cannot please God. This is what it means to "walk after the flesh" (v. 4), or to "mind the things of the flesh" (v. 5). As John 4:24 reminds us: God is a Spirit, and they that worship Him MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT and in truth. Which brings me to my main point:
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Romans 8:9.
As true Christians, WE ARE NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit. That is, we are in the Spirit if the Spirit of God dwells in us. Now, don't miss the last part of this verse: If any man HATH NOT the Spirit of Christ, HE IS NONE OF HIS!!! In other words, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to be a part of the true body of Christ, if we do not have the Spirit of Christ; or IF WE DO NOT HAVE THE LOVE OF JESUS IN OUR HEARTS FOR ONE ANOTHER!!! This is why we are told in 1 John 4:8:
"He that loveth not, KNOWETH NOT GOD; for God is love!!!"
This is why, I very firmly believe that--while there are still a few ticks left on the clock of this earth's history--OUR PRIMARY FOCUS AND ENERGY should not be on doctrinal discourse and argument, but on becoming SUPER-SOAKED AND SUPER-SATURATED with getting the Spirit of Christ IN OUR HEARTS.
M.A.
Why was this what Jesus said unto His disciples a new commandment? It was a new commandment then FOR THE SAME REASON IT IS A NEW COMMANDMENT TODAY IN MANY OF OUR CHURCHES!!! Because it had not been put into practice in their lives JUST LIKE TODAY as it should have been. The bottom line is: EVERYTHING that we do unto salvation must be tempered with the love of Jesus Christ.
The Spirit of Jesus' love needs to be manifested in every Adventist congregation, and emphasized in every sermon. The greatest need among us today is TO HAVE THE LOVE OF GOD IN OUR HEARTS. When we have the love of Jesus in our hearts as we should, THEN we will know how to talk to one another. THEN we will know HOW TO TREAT ONE ANOTHER in a Christlike manner. As pointed out in a previous post above, mere mental assent to the truth, or to that what is right, will avail us nothing.
One Adventist scholar and historian summed it up best when he said:
"'Christianity' that is merely head knowledge is not genuine Christianity at all. It is all too easy for us, as a church and as individuals, to think that just because we have responded to the Holy Spirit and put Christ rather than mere doctrines at the center of our belief system, we have somehow arrived at the real thing. What has really happened is that we have taken only the first step in the right direction. It is one thing to put Christ at the center of our belief system and VERBALLY ACCEPT justification by faith and the transforming, sanctifying concept of the Holy Spirit, but it is quite another actually TO LIVE THE CHRISTLIKE LIFE (Emphasis mine). Every Christian is to become a conduit for God's grace and love....
"If our lives don't express our version of the 'truth' in terms of loving, Christlike concern for those around us, it is because we have not yet found the TRUTH as it is in Jesus (John 13:35, author's emphasis)..." (Dr. George R. Knight, A User-Friendly Guide To The 1888 Message, pp. 171-2).
M.A.
Why was this what Jesus said unto His disciples a new commandment? It was a new commandment then FOR THE SAME REASON IT IS A NEW COMMANDMENT TODAY IN MANY OF OUR CHURCHES!!! Because it had not been put into practice in their lives JUST LIKE TODAY as it should have been. The bottom line is: EVERYTHING that we do unto salvation must be tempered with the love of Jesus Christ.
The Spirit of Jesus' love needs to be manifested in every Adventist congregation, and emphasized in every sermon. The greatest need among us today is TO HAVE THE LOVE OF GOD IN OUR HEARTS. When we have the love of Jesus in our hearts as we should, THEN we will know how to talk to one another. THEN we will know HOW TO TREAT ONE ANOTHER in a Christlike manner. As pointed out in a previous post above, mere mental assent to the truth, or to that what is right, will avail us nothing.
One Adventist scholar and historian summed it up best when he said:
"'Christianity' that is merely head knowledge is not genuine Christianity at all. It is all too easy for us, as a church and as individuals, to think that just because we have responded to the Holy Spirit and put Christ rather than mere doctrines at the center of our belief system, we have somehow arrived at the real thing. What has really happened is that we have taken only the first step in the right direction. It is one thing to put Christ at the center of our belief system and VERBALLY ACCEPT justification by faith and the transforming, sanctifying concept of the Holy Spirit, but it is quite another actually TO LIVE THE CHRISTLIKE LIFE (Emphasis mine). Every Christian is to become a conduit for God's grace and love....
"If our lives don't express our version of the 'truth' in terms of loving, Christlike concern for those around us, it is because we have not yet found the TRUTH as it is in Jesus (John 13:35, author's emphasis)..." (Dr. George R. Knight, A User-Friendly Guide To The 1888 Message, pp. 171-2).
M.A.
"The core of the 1888 message as Ellen White saw it was to uplift Jesus and full salvation in Him. Her writing ministry literally transformed as she more fully comprehended the great need of both individuals and the church to PUT JESUS AND HIS SAVING RIGHTEOUSNESS at the center of their beliefs and lives (Emphasis mine throughout). It resulted in such books as The Desire of Ages and Steps to Christ.
"'The great Center of attraction, Jesus Christ,' she penned in 1894, 'must not be left out of the third angel's message. By many who have been engaged in the work for this time, CHIRST HAS BEEN MADE SECONDARY, and theories and arguments have had the first place' (RH, Mar. 20, 1894). On another occasion she wrote 'OUR CHURCHES ARE DYING for the want of teaching on the subject of righteousness by faith in Christ, and on kindred truths' (GW 301).
"Doctrines may be good and true, BUT THEY ARE MEANINGLESS outside of a saving relationship with Jesus. The church and its members must constantly keep at the forefront that doctrinal truth--truth with a small 't'--is Christian truth ONLY when placed in the framework of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice and ministry. He is 'the way, and the truth, and the life.' No one 'comes to the Father' except through Him (John 14:6, RSV). He is the TRUTH (Author's emphasis) with a capital 'T.' All other truths are true ONLY AS THEY RELATE TO HIM.
"JESUS IS THE GREAT NEED OF THE CHURCH TODAY....As Ellen White so nicely put it, 'Christ crucified' must be the center of our message. 'Talk it, pray it, sing it, and it will break and win hearts. Set, formal phrases, the presentation of merely argumentative subjects, IS PRODUCTIVE OF LITTLE GOOD. The melting love of God in the hearts of the workers will be recognized by those for whom they labor. Souls are thirsting for the water of life. Do not allow them to go from you empty. Reveal the love of Christ to them. Lead them to Jesus and he will give them the bread of life and the water of salvation' (RH, June 2, 1903)" (Ibid., pp. 169-70).
Thoughts to ponder: Is Jesus and His saving righteousness at the center of all that I believe and live unto salvation? Has Christ been made secondary; whereas theories and arguments have been made first with me?
M.A.
This is the great problem in many of our Seventh-day Adventist churches today: CHRIST HAS BEEN MADE SECONDARY, and theories and arguments have had first place. Mrs. White saw this problem all the way back in 1894. This is the reason why the Spirit of Christ is not readily discernable in many of our congregations today: CHRIST HAS BEEN MADE SECONDARY, and theories and arguments have had first place.
But thank God there is a remedy to this situation. It is in Romans 13:14 which tells us to put on the Lord Jesus Christ. And we do this by earnestly praying to God for the Holy Spirit to come in and make a change in our lives, then MOVE FORWARD IN FAITH. But the problem is this: WE HAVE TO WANT TO BE CHANGED!!! God is not going to force His Will on anyone. When we HONESTLY AND TRULY desire to be changed by the Holy Spirit, He will recognize this and will begin to work the work in us that will cause us TO DEMONSTRATE true love toward our brothers and sisters and our fellow man. It's all about moving forward in faith. There will be no magic performed. God does not operate that way. We are to claim the promises and go forward IN LOVE by actively engaging in acts of kindness expressed toward one another.
Of course, the devil will attempt to discourage and convince us that our cause is a lost one. But, I can't emphasize enough that we are to move out AND GO FORWARD IN FAITH that God will give us the strength to carry on through Christ by way of the Power of the Holy Spirit.
M.A.
NEITHER IS THERE SALVATION IN ANY OTHER!! There is no salvation in religions or denominations, although there are individuals who try to MAKE A GOD out of both. Religions do not save. Denominations do not save.
Mankind has always tried to elevate "religion" to God above OBEDIENCE to God. As Ellen G. White pointed out in The Great Controversy (GC 494), sin began in Heaven with him who was next to Christ when he tried to substitue his "new religion" in the place of obedience to God. Lucifer said he was going to exalt his throne above the stars of God and BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH (Isa. 14:13).
Mistaking kindness and love as signs of weakness began in Heaven with Lucifer when he attempted to exalt his throne above the stars of God. He introduced a new "religion" based NOT UPON LOVE, but upon force, power, pride, and self-exaltation. He even convinced one third of God's Heavenly hosts to join his "new church" (Rev. 12:4). But churches and denominations do not save. This includes the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Many in this church are trying to build a religion based upon "partial obedience" to the word of God, but it will not work. The Bible VERY CLEARLY tells us that:
"...It is written, man shall not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4, emphasis mine.
The Bible says what It means, and It means what It says.
Ellen G. White has rightly stated that there are many whose names are on the church rolls BUT ARE NOT ON HEAVEN'S ROLLS!!! (RH, Feb. 14, 1888). All churches and denominations can do unto salvation is TO POINT ONE TO THE SOURCE OF SALVATION: JESUS CHRIST!!! Then after one has been pointed to The Source, it is up to the individual to order his or her life--each and every day in each and every way--after that Source. In other words, we are to COPY THE MASTERPIECE in EACH AND EVERY DEPARTMENT of our lives.
Jesus Christ MUST BE AT THE CENTER of all that we say, do, and believe unto salvation. As true followers of Christ, We ARE NOT to say what He would not say; we ARE NOT to go where He would not go; we ARE NOT to do what He would not do; and we ARE NOT to think what He would not think. THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS to be covered with the Robe of Christ's Righteousness (Isa. 61:10), so when Jesus is seen coming in the clouds of His Glory, He will see NOT SINFUL YOU AND ME, but only A REFLECTION OF HIMSELF in our lives.
M.A.
"What is man," the psalmist inquires, "that Thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that Thou visitest him?" "Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance; behold, He taketh up the isles as a very little thing." Thus, Isaiah declares, God regards the inhabitants of this world, not excepting those who stand at the head of the
nobility of the earth, those who have acquired the greatest learning, those to whose lot has fallen great riches and much honor.
Notwithstanding the insignificance of this world in comparison with the whole universe,
Christ volunteered to take upon Himself the nature of humanity, and to bear on His divine soul the sins of mankind, in order that He might redeem the fallen race and enable them to gain life eternal. Laying aside His kingly crown and royal robe. He left His high command in the heavenly courts, clothed His divinity with humanity, and entered the world as a helpless babe.
For our sakes He became poor, that through His poverty we might be made rich. Satan, the powerful angel who had been cast out of heaven, had long claimed dominion on earth. Christ came to conquer this foe, in order that through divine grace we also might obtain the victory over the enemy of our souls. Standing at the head of humanity, Christ by perfect obedience to God's commandments, demonstrated to the universe that man could withstand Satan's temptations.
It was necessary for Christ to clothe His divinity with humanity. Only thus could He become the Redeemer of the fallen race. In order to be a Saviour indeed, it was necessary for Him to know the power of temptation, to endure every trial and affliction that befalls us. In all our
afflictions He was afflicted. He endured every hardship that comes to the poor and the needy. He suffered weariness and hunger. He understands every inconvenience to which we may be put.
Under all circumstances He remained faithful to every precept of God's law, living in our behalf a perfect life. From childhood to manhood He stood the test of obedience.
Everything that could be done has been done to make our salvation possible. Christ has
obtained an everlasting victory, in order that He might open to us the door of heaven. To obtain our salvation, He hung on Calvary's cross. For our sake He was laid in the tomb. For us He was raised from the dead; and for us, too. He declared over the rent sepulcher of Joseph. "I am the
resurrection and the life." And when at the close of His earthly ministry He ascended to heaven, the portals of the city of God were opened wide, and He entered as a conqueror, there to take up, in the heavenly sanctuary. His ministry in behalf of those for whom He had given His life. The divine human Son of God is now standing in the presence of the Father, pleading our cases and presenting His sacrifice as the atonement for our transgressions.
In view of Christ's infinite sacrifice, how cruel it is for men and women to refuse the great salvation, or to misrepresent their Saviour after professing to give themselves to His service! How cruel of them to doubt that He will hear their prayers! He says, "Ask, and it shall be given
you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you; for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh, findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."
Christ represents His heavenly Father as sustaining the same tender relation to us that an earthly parent sustains to his children. "What man is there of you," He inquires, "whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then,
being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things unto them that ask Him?" God gives the Holy Spirit to every one who asks in faith.
Having access to the Source of all strength, why do we remain so weak that we yield to
temptation? Having so great an assurance of power to enable us to overcome, why are we so
faithless? Why do we not always come to our heavenly Father, to ask in simple, childlike faith for the things we need? We should pray much more than we do. In every hour of trial we may gain victory through the strength given in answer to earnest prayer.
Christ desires that we shall finally enter the heavenly city as conquerors. Through the grace that He constantly imparts to humanity. He is preparing a people to live with Him throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity. This preparation every one who chooses to follow Him may receive.
Let us glorify His name by accepting the salvation so freely offered.
MS, January 14, 1903 "Our Assurance of Victory" By: Mrs. E. G. White.
Your brother in Christ.
"Christ crucified--TALK IT, PRAY IT, SING IT, and it will break and win hearts (Emphasis mine throughout). Set, formal phrases, the presentation of merely argumentative subjects, IS PRODUCTIVE OF LITTLE GOOD. The melting LOVE OF GOD IN THE HEARTS of the workers will be recognized by those for whom they labor. Souls are thristing for the water of life. Do not allow them to go from you empty. REVEAL THE LOVE OF CHRIST TO THEM. Lead them to Jesus, and He will give them the bread of life and the water of salvation" (RH, June 2, 1903).
M.A.
Richard
How do we assist church members in understanding that the Great Commission of Matthew 28:19 and 20 to GO TELL includes all of us who are of the body of Christ, and not just pastors, elders, or church leaders? Perhaps the following will shed light on this question.
1. The pastor is the undershepherd of the local congregation. Therefore (after Christ), the people look to him for spiritual guidance; and rightly so. Therefore I believe it is the responsibility of the pastor, by way of his sermons and his example, to "feed the flock of God" (1 Peter 5:2) and very carefully make sure that the members under his tutelage are spiritually cared for and nourished. The example of Christ as the Good Shepherd (John 10:11-16) is the Pattern whereby ALL PASTORS should aspire to emulate.
2. I believe Church officers should be men and women of experience who possess the SPIRITUAL QUALIFICATIONS to hold the office to which they were elected. They should be individuals who strive to make sure their office is being used to help God's people grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in order that they might be saved. I see a church officer as being one who is elected TO SERVE GOD'S PEOPLE and to help them in their Christian growth and development. Therefore, I believe a church officer grows spiritually BY HELPING OTHERS TO GROW SPIRITUALLY!
3. Obviously, church members have a role to play in their own salvation. After pastors and church officers have done their part, it is then up to each individual member to do his or her part. Members have a responsibility to very carefully and prayerfully read and study their Bibles on their own. I highly recommend the Amazing Facts Bible Study Guides (contact your local ABC) as being excellent for use as an aid to provide structure and direction as one studies the Bible.
In order to avoid becoming spiritually emaciated, I believe it is of paramount importance that we as church members read or engage in some spirit-filled activity ON A DAILY BASIS. Just as we must be physically fed on a daily basis in order to maintain our physical health, I believe we must also be spiritually fed on a daily basis in order to maintain our spiritual health.
M.A.
In 1 Corinthians 2:1, Paul says when he came unto the Corinthians he didn't come unto them with a lot of religious rhetoric and verbosity. Neither did he come unto them showing how wise he was as he declared unto them the testimony of God. He states in no uncertain terms in verse 2 that HE IS DETERMINED not to know anything among them except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
Paul knew then how utterly futile it is now to "make Christ secondary" and give center stage to doctrinal discussions and argumentation. The Bible very clearly tells us:
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" Acts 4:12. Emphasis mine throughout.
THERE IS NO SALVATION OTHER THAN IN JESUS CHRIST!!! This is why EVERY SERMON preached from every Adventist pulpit should begin with Christ, have Christ interspersed throughout it, and end with Christ. Otherwise, if we are not doing that, WE ARE WASTING OUR TIME unto salvation. But we must do more than just talk about Jesus. We must LIVE JESUS every day!!!
That sounds good. But what does that mean to us as Christians? Jesus told the devil when He was tempted of him in the wilderness:
"...It is writen, man shall not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" (Matt. 4:4).
In other words we are to become LIVING EPISTLES, "known and read of all men" (2 Cor. 3:2). We are to VERY CAREFULLY AND PRAYERFULLY study the Life of Christ as presented in the Bible and order our lives after His Divine Likeness.
That sounds so good. But how many professed Christians are actually willing to do this? How many of us are actually willing to sacrifice and surrender self and COPY THE MASTERPIECE, JESUS CHRIST? When we face up to reality and the truth is actually told, we all have "skeletons in our closets" we need to pray about!!! We all have something in our lives that is not according to the Will of God. This is why angels of God RIGHT NOW are standing on the four corners of the earth holding back the winds of strife until the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads (Rev. 7:1-3). A Loving and Merciful Saviour patiently waits until we get right with God. But HE IS NOT GOING TO WAIT FOREVER!!!
God knows all and He sees all. Let us honestly and sincerely pray that our DAILY EFFORT will be one of HUMBLE SUBMISSION to the Will of God as we seek to become more and more like Him in each and every department of our lives.
M.A.
Do we really believe that? If we do, what does it mean to us from the standpoint of salvation? Do we have some erroneous view of God as One who knows and sees all but will save us in our little "itty, bitty" sins simply because we are members of His remnant church? I think not. The servant of the Lord tells us:
"...There are many whose names are registered on the leaves of the church record but whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life" (That I May Know Him, p. 113).
The Bible NOWHERE teaches that God will save us in our sins. What It does teach is:
"...and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Matthew 1:21.
The Bible makes it very clear that Christ saves us FROM OUR SINS!!! Not in our sins. What does it mean to be saved from our sins? The only way we can be saved from our sins is through the Power of the Holy Spirit. He does within us a WORK OF PREPARATION that must take place in the life in order to be able to stand before the True and the Living God when He is seen coming in the clouds of His Glory. The Bible does not leave us in the dark as to what that work of preparation entails. In Isaiah 61:10, we are told:
"I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bdide adorneth herself with jewels."
HE HATH COVERED ME WITH THE ROBE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. Ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, the work of preparation is: we MUST BE covered with the Robe of Christ's Righteousness. This is THE ONLY GARMENT that will allow sinful human beings to stand in the presence of a Holy God. You and I must BE LIKE HIM even as He is righteous (1 John 3:2). And THE ONLY WAY we can be like Him and made righteous is to be covered with the Righteousness of Christ by making His way of life our way of life (Gal. 2:20). As 1 John 3:7 tells us:
"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."
Righteousness is simply nothing more than doing right. And the ONLY EXAMPLE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS that is acceptable unto God is the Righteousness of Christ, or THE TRUTH AS IT IS IN JESUS. Our own particular "brand" of righteousness just simply will not do unto salvation.
Where our salvation is concerned, we need to CAREFULLY AND PRAYERFULLY read and study our Bibles and be DOERS OF THE WORD, and not just "hearers" only (Jas. 1:22).
M.A.
I very firmly believe that the primary objective of the devil is to keep us from studying our Bibles as we should, and he will use any means he can to accomplish this objective. There is a reason for this.
I believe that many who are alive now will be alive when Jesus is seen coming in the clouds. But prior to Christ's Second Coming, many will be brought before judges and councils in that day to answer for their beliefs. And THE ONLY BOOK that will provide IRREFUTABLE ANSWERS UNTO SALVATION as to why we believe as we do is the Holy Bible. But how can we defend our faith by way of the Word of God IF WE DON'T KNOW THE WORD OF GOD? How can we convince those before whom we stand of something that we ourselves know nothing of? The devil's goal is to make sure that we are as IGNORANT AS POSSIBLE in reference to the Scriptures so we can be as the five foolish virgins (Matt. 25:1-13) who had their "lamps," which is symbolic of God's Word (Ps. 119:105), but they did not have the "oil," which is symbolic of the Holy Spirit (1 Sam. 16:13), and did not have the ACCOMPANYING CHRISTIAN EXPERIENCE of having made the Word of God a part of their everyday living by way of the Holy Spirit. They had only a theoretical knowledge of God's Word instead of AN EXPERENTIAL KNOWLEDGE. This is why we need to be fortifying our minds right now WITH BIBLE ANSWERS to the questions Christians shall be confronted with as we stand before those who are accusers of the brethren (Rev. 12:10).
Ellen G. White wrote:
"The Lord desires you to study your Bibles. He has not given any additional light to take the place of His Word. This light [her writings] is to bring confused minds to His Word, which, if eaten and digested, is as the life blood of the soul. Then good works will be seen as light shining in darkness--Letter 130, 1901" (3SM 29).
She also wrote:
"...You are not familiar with the Scriptures. If you had made God's word your study, with a desire to reach the Bible standard and attain to Christian perfection, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE NEEDED THE TESTIMONIES (Emphasis mine throughout). It is because you have neglected to acquaint yourselves with God's inspired Book that He has sought to reach you by simple, direct testimonies, calling your attention to the words of inspiration WHICH YOU HAD NEGLECTED TO OBEY, and urging you to fashion your lives in accordance with its pure and elevated teachings" (2T 605).
O SAY, CAN YOU SEE?!!!
Someone has also said: "A hint to the wise is sufficient."
M.A.
"For God shall bring EVERY WORK into judgment with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." Ecclesiastes 12:14. Emphasis mine throughout.
"For the time is come that judgment must begin AT THE HOUSE OF GOD: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17.
"...Fear God and give glory to him: for the hour of his judgment is come..." Revelation 14:7.
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given unto them..." Revelation 20:4.
The Bible very clearly tells us that judgment must begin at the house of God. Even if one does not use the word "investigative" here IT DOES NOT NEGATE THE FACT that judgment is going to begin first with the house of God. This is what began in 1844. Daniel 8:14 tells us:
"Unto 2300 days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
We know that Christ did not return to the earth on October 22, 1844 as had been assumed by many, therefore some other VERY IMPORTANT WORK of God had to commence at that time.
We learn in the Book of Hebrews there is a Heavenly Sanctuary, of which the earthly was but a type or copy of the Heavenly. When we study Hebrews very carefully we learn that Christ is performing a work there as our High Priest (Heb. 9:11, 24). If the earthly was a copy of the Heavenly, when we carefully read Leviticus 16 we discover the work that the earthly high priest performed there was a work of CLEANSING of the earthly sanctuary. This cleansing involved a JUDGING OF THE PEOPLE because they were to PREPARE THEMSELVES to come before the Lord (vs. 11-34) just as WE NOW must prepare ourselves to come before the Lord because of what is written in 1 Peter 4:17. If some in Leviticus 16 had not made the necessary SPIRITUAL PREPARATION to come before the Lord, they would be "cut off" from God's people, and Leviticus 20 makes it quite clear they would be lost. JUST AS WE WILL BE TODAY if we have not made the necessary spiritual preparation to divest ourselves OF ALL SIN AND UNRIGHTEOUSNESS while our High Priest, Jesus Christ, makes intercession for us in the Heavenly Sanctuary (Heb. 10:4-27).
M.A.
"I did not hear the Bible gospel of salvation by the grace of God alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone until my 30th year in SDAism."
My question to him was: WHAT IN THE WORLD WERE YOU STUDYING ALL THIS TIME?!!!
I know a man who could not read very well because of a lack of formal education early in life. A colporteur introduced him to the Adventist message, and he began to study his Bible, was convinced of the truth, and, after over twenty years, is still a faithful member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church today. As a matter of fact, he himself is a colporteur, helping others to come into the knowledge of saving truth. My point is: DON'T TELL ME WHAT THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN'T DO in the life of an individual WHEN one is willing to repent of his sins, HUMBLE HIMSELF, and place himself IN A TEACHABLE POSTURE to be taught of the Lord by way of His Holy Spirit. Simply put, we can learn what constitutes God's Truth WHEN WE ARE WILLING TO OBEY THAT TRUTH without hesitation, and without reservation.
Miracles like the story above occur somewhere practically every day. I believe if it becomes necessary, God will--to save a soul--cause THE ROCKS TO CRY OUT precious truths unto eternal life if one can be found who is willing to be a DOER OF THE WORD and not just a hearer only (Jas. 1:22). When one places oneself IN THE PROPER SPIRITUAL POSTURE to be taught of the Lord IN ORDER TO BE A DOER of His Word, miracles happen.
The Biblical Gospel of salvation by faith alone through Jesus Christ alone HAS ALWAYS BEEN very plainly revealed in the Word of God. However, IT IS UP TO US to very carefully and prayerfully read and study God's Word FOR OURSELVES. We ARE NOT to look to pastors, elders, OR ANYONE ALSE, to do our studying for us. If God can save an individual who studied his Bible but could not read very well, WHAT ABOUT US who have one or many academic degrees to our credit? What excuse shall we present unto the Lord?!!!
M.A.
"As one who has faith in Christ alone for my salvation (unlike those who rely on their lawkeeping), I am not under the Law (Galatians 3:23-25). Even EGW said that the law being discussed in Galatians 3 is the ten commandments (Selected Messages, Book 1, page 3, paragraph 1)."
You say you have "faith in Christ alone" for your salvation. That's fine. But do you REALLY KNOW what that means? Are you sure? You say you are not under the Law and give Galatians 3:23-25, I assume, as your proof texts. Let's see what these texts of Scripture say:
"But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which soon afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Galatians 3:23-25.
The Bible says in vs. 24 that the law was our schoolmaster which was given to bring us to Christ. What does that mean?
"...Israel was kept 'under the law' (v. 23) until God's provision for salvation by faith should be 'revealed' with the coming of Christ" (SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 6, p. 961).
In verse 23, the terms "schoolmaster" is translated from the Greek, paidagogus, which means "tutor," or "guardian of children." Therefore, "the law served as the guardian, supervisor, or custodian of the chosen people in OT times, and, like the paidagogus [schoolmaster], was charged with their moral training" (Ibid.)
Verses 25 and 26 tell us that, now that faith has come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (under the law), for we are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. And that is true. Now that salvation has been revealed by way of THE LIVING EXAMPLE of Jesus Christ to demonstrate how we are saved, we are no longer under the law, but under grace (Rom. 6:14). In Romans 6:14, Paul's point is that "Christians are not under law as a way of salvation, but under grace. Law cannot save a sinner, nor can law put an end to sin and its dominion. Law reveals sin (ch. 3:20).... Law cannot forgive sin, nor can law provide any power to overcome it..." ().
SIN CAN BE OVERCOME AND FORGIVEN ONLY THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST!!! Not in our futile attempt at lawkeeping. BUT WAIT A MINUTE:
"Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31.
This is why the writer and others need to be very careful when they talk about salvation through Jesus Christ "alone." Romans 3:31 makes it VERY CLEAR that we DO NOT do away with God's Law through faith in Christ. Faith in Jesus IS NOT a license to now live as one pleases without regard for God's Law. Jesus came to MAGNIFY God Law and to make It honorable (Isa. 42:21). To magnify means to bring it out, or MAKE IT CLEARER. And that is precisely what He did by way of the life He lived on this earth. HE IS OUR LIVING EXAMPLE as to how we should live, if we expect to be saved.
I hope no one misses this very vital point: Jesus said in His Word that He has kept His Father's Commandments (John 15:10). If Jesus kept God's Commandments, and true Christians are followers of Christ, IT IS THEREFORE IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to be saved who does not do likewise.
The law being discussed in Galatians 3 does include the Decalogue, but the writer made an error in his assumption (and in his reference). This is what Ellen G. White has to say with regard to the relationship of righteousness by faith and the Law of God:
"Holding up Christ as our only source of strength, presenting His matchless love in having the guilt of the sins of men charged to His account and His own righteousness imputed to man, in no case does away with the law or detracts from its dignity. Rather, it places it where the correct light shines upon and glorifies it. This is done only through the light reflected from the cross of Calvary. The law is complete and full in the great plan of salvation, only as it is presented in the light shining from the crucified and risen Saviour. This can be only spiritually discerned. It kindles in the heart of the beholder ardent faith, hope, and joy that Christ is his righteousness. This joy is only for those who love and keep the words of Jesus, which are the words of God." (3SM 176-7).
M.A.
While there is some good and inspiring quotes here, I see, a bit of what I was concerned about, over a year ago, when I asked to start this thread.
There is NO DIFFERENCE between a doctrine; and "Christ crucified." Atleast, not if it is a truly Christian doctrine.
In their haste, to the ecumenical fever that has captured mainstream Christianity; they all flock eagerly to the same things such as:
a) Doctrines do not save
b) only "Christ, and Him crucified" counts
c) only talk about Jesus
d) etc., etc.
Also, it appears, by some of MA's posts here, that "law" is being somehow equated with "doctrine," in terms of importance, or relevance. That, I find, needs questions to be asked.
When it comes right down to the main point; even Acts 4:12 is a "doctrine." :)
I wonder how this thread would go, if we all took some time to do a thorough Word study, from the Bible, and SOP on "doctrine," "doctrines," and "doctrinal."
------------------
Fuel to burn, and roads to drive: Dan.11:32
Mr David T Battler
"If you love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15.
Ask that individual another question: Are you a follower of Christ? Christ made it very clear that He kept His Father's Commandments while on earth (John 15:10). As professed followers of Christ, do we keep His Father's Commandments also? If not, why not?
As John 14:15 very clearly points out, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to love Jesus and not keep His Commandments. Jesus explains in John 15:14 what He means when He says "keep My commandments:"
Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you."
And Jesus makes it very clear in another part of Scripture what He means by the statement to do whatsoever He commands:
"But he answered and said, It is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matt. 4:4).
In other words, we cannot pick and choose, cafeteria style, the verses of Scripture that are to our liking and ignore the one that are not. SALVATION DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! We are to study the Word of God for the purpose of finding out what "Thus saith the Lord" IN ORDER TO BE A DOER OF THAT WORD, and not just a "hearer" only (Jas. 1:22).
A long-time evangelist in this church, now retired, once remarked in a sermon: "God is not interested in out talk; HE'S INTERESTED IN OUR WALK!!!" His point was many Adventists are known to have a "gift for gab," but merely agreeing that truth is truth will not save anyone. OBEDIENCE TO WHAT GOD HAS SAID IN HIS WORD shall be the determining factor as to whether we are saved or not. The Bible MAKES IT VERY CLEAR that obedience is better than sacrifice (1 Sam. 15:22).
M.A.
Richard
"It is general knowledge among many Seventh-day Adventists that Christ entered The Most Holy Place (Second Apartment) of the Heavenly Sanctuary at the end of the 2300-day prophecy on October 22, 1844. But when did Christ enter into The Holy Place (First Apartment) of the Heavenly Sanctuary, and what salvific work was He doing there?"
The servant of the Lord in The Great Controversy writes:
"...After His ascension our Saviour began His work as our high priest. Says Paul: Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us." Hebrews 9:24.
"The ministration of the priest throughout the year in the first apartment of the sanctuary, 'within the veil' which formed the door and separated the holy place from the outer court, represents the work of ministration upon which Christ entered at His ascension. It was the work of the priest in the daily ministration to present before God the blood of the sin offering, also the incense which ascended with the prayers of Israel. So did Christ plead His blood before the Father in behalf of sinners, and present before Him also, with the precious fragrance of His own righteousness, the prayers of penitent believers. Such was the work of ministration in the first apartment of the sanctuary in heaven.
"For eighteen centuries this work of ministration continued in the first apartment of the sanctuary..." (GC 420-21).
M.A.
When David sinned his great sin, did Jesus plead for him? Did He stand between God and David? He could not plead His blood, for it was not spilled yet. When Moses was taken to heaven, did Jesus ask for this?
OK, what I am really getting at is where in heaven did all of this ministry take place? Was it in the sanctuary that the earthly temple was patterned after?
Richard
Mrs. White has pointed out that what was done in type in the ministration of the earthly sanctuary was and is being done in reality by Christ in the Heavenly Sanctuary. She gives a rather thorough and comprehensive explanation of this relationship between the two in The Great Controversy on pages 420 and 421.
M.A.
"...The blood of Christ, pleaded in behalf of penitent believers, secured their pardon and acceptance with the Father, yet their sins still remained upon the books of record. As in the typical service there was a work of atonement at the close of the year, so before Christ's work for the redemption of men is completed there is a work of atonement for the removal of sin from the sanctuary. This is the service which began when the 2300 days ended. At that time, as foretold by Daniel the prophet, our High Priest entered the most holy, to perform the last division of His solemn work--to cleanse the sanctuary.
"As anciently the sins of the people were by faith placed upon the sin offering and through its blood transferred, in figure, to the earthly sanctuary, so in the new covenant the sins of the repentant are by faith placed upon Christ and transferred, in fact, to the heavenly sanctuary. And as the typical cleansing of the earthly was accomplished by the removal of the sins by which it had been polluted, so the actual cleansing of the heavenly is to be accomplished by the removal, or blotting out, of the sins which are there recorded. But before this can be accomplished, there must be an examination of the books of record to determine who, through repentance of sin and faith in Christ, are entitled to the benefits of His atonement. The cleansing of the sanctuary therefore involves a work of investigation--a work of judgment. This work must be performed prior to the coming of Christ to redeem His people; for when He comes, His reward is with Him to give to every man according to his works. Revelation 22:12.
"Thus those who followed in the light of the prophetic word saw that, instead of coming to the earth at the termination of the 2300 days in 1844, Christ then entered the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary to perform the closing work of atonement preparatory to His coming.
"It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. When the high priest, by virtue of the blood of the sin offering, removed the sins from the sanctuary, he placed them upon the scapegoat. When Christ, by virtue of His own blood, removes the sins of His people from the Heavenly sanctuary at the close of His ministration, He will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty. The scapegoat was sent away into a land not inhabited, never to come again into the congregation of Israel. So will Satan be forever banished from the presence of God and His people, and he will be blotted from existence in the final destruction of sin and sinners." (GC 421-22).
M.A.
"The theme of the Epistle to the Galatians is righteousness attained by faith in Jesus Christ. This is set in contrast with the Jewish concept of righteousness attained by compliance with the 'works' prescribed by the Jewish legal system. This letter exalts what God has done through Christ for man's salvation and summarily dismisses the idea that man can be justified by his own merits. It extols the free gift of God in contrast with man's attempts to save himself.
"The specific question at issue between Paul and the heretical teachers in Galatia was, Does compliance with the prescribed forms and requirements of Judaism entitle a man to divine favor and acceptance? The caegorical answer was No, 'a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ' (see on ch. 2:16). Indeed, the Christian who attempts to earn salvation by the 'works of the law' thereby forfeits the grace of Christ (chs. 2:21; 5:4)....
"...'The law' was not designed to replace the covenant or to provide another means of salvation, but to help men understand and appropriate the covenant's provisions of divine grace. 'The law' was not intended to be an end in itself, as the Jews came to think, but a means--a 'schoolmaster'--to lead men to salvation in Christ according to the promises of the covenant. The purpose of 'the law,' its 'end,' or objective, was to lead men to Christ (see on Rom. 10:4), not to open for them another pathway to salvation. For the most part, however, the Jews willingly remained in ignorance of God's plan for making men righteous by faith in Christ, and went about to establish their own righteousness by 'the works of the law' (Gal. 2:16; see Rom. 10:3)" (SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 6, pp. 933-34).
M.A.
That is true. Obedience to God always has been and always will be essential to salvation and eternal life. It is essential BECAUSE GOD IS GOD. It is He AND HE ALONE who is the Creator and Ruler of the Universe. It is He AND HE ALONE who possesses Absolute Perfection, which means GOD IS INCAPABLE of making a mistake or an error. It was disobedience to God that led Lucifer and the angels who followed him to sin in Heaven. It was disobedience to God that led Adam and Eve to sin in Eden. That's what sin is:
"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.
What is The Law? God's Word is The Law. And we transgress God's Law when God tells us to do one thing, AND WE DO ANOTHER! That's what sin is: DISOBEDIENCE to God. The Bible tells us:
"But he answered and said, It is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4.
And because the Bible says "every word," IT MEANS EVERY WORD. And not just the ones we like! But there is a very critical factor involved in obedience that we must look at.
We don't obey God in order to earn salvation. Salvation cannot be earned. It is a free gift (Eph. 2:8, 9). We don't keep the Sabbath to be saved. We don't keep any of God's Commandments to be saved. Trying to earn salvation by works of obedience is legalism. Then why do we do what we do?
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.
The Bible is not a Book of "do's and don'ts." When one looks at It from this viewpoint, one is looking at It from the wrong viewpoint. The Bible from Genesis to Revelation IS ONE GIGANTIC LOVE LETTER of how God loves us so much until He was willing to give THE SECOND PERSON OF THE GODHEAD in order to save us!!! This is the very heart of the Gospel message. And when it is properly taught, IT WILL MELT THE HEARTS of sincere men and women, boys and girls, who really want to be saved, and will cause them to FALL ON THE ROCK, JESUS CHRIST, and surrender all to Him.
Why do we do what we do? We don't obey God to be saved. Salvation is a free gift. WE OBEY GOD BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM!!! And we demonstrate that love for Him by our obedience to Him WITHOUT RESERVATION in all that He asks of us. A true Christian serves God BECAUSE HE OR SHE LOVES HIM. When we get our priorities straight, and live as God wants us to live, SALVATION WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF!!!
M.A.
Ignoring this fact sometimes leads people to present God as arbitrary, which, of course, was one of the charges that Lucifer made against God. If there were more than one way to live, and God arbitrarily picked one way over the other, then God is being arbitrary. In fact, all other ways other than God's way result in death, so God is not arbitrary but rather truthful and righteous.
I have even heard taught about certain commandments, such as the Sabbath, that they are signs of loyalty to God because there is no reason to keep them other than God told us to. But that reinforces Satan's charge that God is arbitrary. Rather, it would be better to explain that there are truthful reasons behind every commandment of God. In fact, if Lucifer had remembered that God had created him, and knew all things, he may have trusted God when He told him that his rebellion would result in his death, and thus spared himself from destruction.
While obedience to God's command is necessary. I think it's important to understand why that is so. It is because the alternative of following our own inclination results in death, not because God says so and will punish all who disobey with death.
I think it's also important to remember that God has gone to great lengths to provide evidence to support our trust or faith in Him and to demonstrate that He is righteous and truthful. In fact, there are many cases in the Bible where he showed that he would prefer that we know and understand rather than blindly obey just because he said so.
As a child, my mother's scolding "Don't you dare jump off that garage roof with that bedsheet!" did not keep me from trying parachuting. But having an older brother slowly explain what could happen if I did it wrong, stopped me dead in my tracks.
On the blood of Jesus and persons before the cross.
There was once some struggle with this in our church. As I recall, Elder G.I. Butler insisted that the sins of individuals before the cross were not really forgiven because the blood of the Christ had not been spilled. Elder E.J. Waggoner on the other hand was appalled at the thought.
I believe that Waggoner was right to be appalled by the idea. The cross of Christ must need be a reality for every moment of humanity's existence since the fall. The moment there was sin, there was a Savior. But without the cross, Jesus was no Savior.
Nevertheless it is true of course that the historical event of Calvary was future in David's day. How can we reconcile this fact? The promises of God are not to be looked upon just as future events but as present realities. They are not spoken as just future events. For example, "A Father of many nations, I have made thee..." Notice how Isaiah 53 reads. "He was wounded for transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities. The chastisement of our peace was upon Him...." While this was not yet a historical event, it is prophesied in the past tense. It was already reality because God's Word is creative. Therefore in a very real way, Christ is the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the World".
So, did Jesus plead for David? Yes, He would have to do so, because not one prayer of David's could be heard on the basis of David's merit. Did Jesus stand between God and David? Yes, and he stood between a Holy God and the entire human race from the very fall of man. Otherwise we all would have been annihillated.
Did Jesus ask the Father for Moses' to be raised? Jesus performed the raising according to Jude's epistle, therefore we must assume that He did so in harmony with the Father's will.
OK. I have to admit that those seem to be the easy questions. Did Christ do this from the heavenly sanctuary? This is a very good question. I tend to think not because while forgiveness and intercession have always been occuring, the inaugaration of the heavenly sanctuary and Christ's annointing as our High Priest would appear to have become historical events upon His Ascension. I would be interested on any Bible texts and SOP quotations relating to this.
Thanks Richard for asking such thought-provoking questions. I trust that we will discover some Inspired comments relating to these things.
In Christ,
D L Wilson
The dictionary defines edification as "instruction and improvement, especially in morality." Therefore, EDIFICATION FOR ME that leads to eternal life comes from the Word of God. This is why the devil wants to keep us from this Book known as The Holy Bible. He wants us to be ignorant of the things that are written there that impact upon whether we are saved or not SO WE WILL BE LOST. Here is just one example:
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in times past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Galatians 5:19-21.
The Bible makes it VERY CLEAR that those who do these things SHALL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God!!! When was the last time Galatians 5:19-21 was heard presented from the desk? Yet these AND OTHER ADMONITIONS LIKE THEM are in the Bible. This is why the devil does not want us to SERIOUSLY STUDY our Bibles. He is afraid that we will discover in those sacred pages God's Will for our lives and be saved.
Are we waiting for someone to tell us from a pulpit what these and other warnings are WHEN WE CAN READ THEM FOR OURSELVES? Others might be, but I AM NOT WILLING to gamble with my soul salvation by waiting for someone else to do for me what I can do for myself.
M.A.
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16, 17.
THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE!! I believe that the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is the revealed Word of God. Notwithstanding those who point out Its many "errors" and interpretations that do not harmonize, I believe that BECAUSE GOD IS GOD and all Scripture is given by inspiration of Him, I am therefore THOROUGHLY CONVINCED in my own mind that He who knows all and sees all and knows the end from the beginning (Isa. 46:10) is not so inept and incompetent that we have to HELP GOD OUT by determining which part of the Bible is more inspired than the other. Hence, more relevant toward man's salvation than another part. Instead, we accept what God says in His Word WITHOUT RESERVATION, not because we can prove everything we read in the Bible, BUT BY FAITH! The Bible tells us without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb. 11:6). We believe WITHOUT HESITATION all of the Word of God because we know GOD IS INCAPABLE OF MAKING AN ERROR!! We might not be able to understand everything the Bible tells us, but the position of A TRUE FOLLOWER of Christ is: GOD SAYS IT, AND THAT SETTLES IT!!! And I very firmly believe with all my heart that this kind of faith is what is lacking in many of our churches today. It is not blind faith. It is faith based upon OUR LOVE FOR GOD and OUR COMPLETE CONFIDENCE IN HIM. I believe this is what we all must have as we prepare for the time of trouble that is soon to come upon us. It is at that time that we must WALK BY FAITH AND NOT BY SIGHT (2 Cor. 5:7). And I do not believe we will be able to successfully do this unless we have made The Holy Bible THE SUPREME LOVE of our lives and are willing to live BY EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the Mouth of God (Matt. 4:4).
M.A.
In the Old Testament, for instance, I find David's understanding about salvation as recorded in Psalm 51 and elsewhere to be much deeper than that of his son Solomon as recorded in Ecclesiastes. I would say that Jeremiah's understanding of God is also much more advanced than Solomon's.
Likewise, in the New Testament, I believe that John's understanding of God is more developed than that of the other Gospel writers. Not all writers had the same abilities and experiences, even though they were all inspired by God. Nor did they all write at the same stage of life. John wrote late in life, with the benefit of many years to reflect on his expereinces with Jesus, and with the benefit of seeing the development of the early Christian Church. It seems clear to me that Bible writers wrote in their own words under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit rather than taking dictation.
Secondly, we have to be aware that we do not have original manuscripts and most of us do not read the original languages even if we did. I believe that God has intervened to preserve his word and that there are no major errors in the Bible as we have it today. Nevertheless, I have found it very helpful to have a Greek/Hebrew dictionary when studying certain passages so that I can grasp the meaning of the original words. I never understood the proper meaning of Romans 3:25 and 26, which may be the best texts on why Jesus had to die in the entire Bible, until I had looked up the Greek in the dictionary. In the KJV and virtually every other translation I have looked at, it is my opinion that some significant paraphrasing by the translators occurred in those texts, which significantly changed the meaning I get from those two verses for me, until I looked at the original Greek.
That may be true. But, as I stated previously, because God knows all and sees all, I am thoroughly convinced that He is not unaware of your concerns and the concerns of others along this same line.
Each Bible writer has his own individual style, thereby emphasizing some aspects of Jesus Christ and the Gospel more than others. And we know that the Bible is not a perfect document from the standpoint of every word, comma, and semicolon. We are also aware of the discrepencies that exist in the various translations of the ancient manuscripts. Nonetheless, I am thoroughly convinced in my own mind that--in spite of these "imperfections"--THE GREAT PRINCIPLES OF SALVATION are there, are clear, and are unmistakable FOR ALL WHO WANT TO SEE THEM IN ORDER TO DO THEM!!
As I stated earlier, we will never be able to understand everything about the Bible. Nor do I believe we will all come into agreement on what It says and means where our salvation is concerned. Therefore, for those of us who expect to be saved, we must simply believe and trust in God and take Him at His Word. For without faith, it is impossible to please God (Heb. 11:6). Knowing that, although we might not be able to know and understand everything about the Bible, WE CAN KNOW AND UNDERSTAND ENOUGH in order to make an intelligent decision for eternal life if we would place ourselves in THE PROPER SPIRITUAL POSTURE to be taught of the Lord by way of His Holy Spirit.
M.A.