SDA Sabbath School Lesson 7-Second Quarter 2014-Christ, the End of the Law

[Dorine]

Well I'm afraid all my explaining, quotes and scripture fell on deaf ears. No one agreed with me and if they did they did not speak up. The discussion was a friendly one but they just couldn't get what I was saying. They didn't realize it but they were speaking out of two sides of their mouths trying to explain how you can sin and still be covered by Christ's Righteousness. The interesting thing is that when asked if they believe we can be saved in our sins they emphatically say NO and yet that is what they are saying. One lady said.....I cry out to God in my wretchedness all the time asking for forgiveness. They are getting the preconversion and conversion all mixed up with each other.  I've come to the conclusion that it's a topic you can not cover in Sabbath School. It needs to be done in a sermon or seminar where you take them step by step through the study with no one interrupting.

I came home utterly exhausted. I can only pray that the discussion will make them want to know more and search for themselves.

[Allan F]

Thank you for sharing your experience today, Dorine. Romans 7+8 are not the easiest chapters in the Bible.

For me personally, the greatest and most important clue to understand the difference between the man in ch 7 and 8 was when I understood what "the law of sin and death" in Rom 8:2 means. When we understand that "the law of sin and death" is the same as the "law of sin" found in Rom 7:23.25 much is resolved.
The "law of sin" means the principle that we in our own strength has no other choice than to follow our fallen nature/flesh. Following this principle means spiritual death.

In Rom 8:2 Paul says that the power of the Holy Spirit has in Jesus Christ set me free from the "law of sin and death", the principle that we are bound to follow our flesh/fallen nature.

It was thus discouraging to read the previous lesson in which the teacher writes that the law of sin and death is the law of God(!)
To be set free from obeying our fallen nature is an ocean away from being set free from Gods law, but this seems to be the core issue of the debate on righteousness by faith in SDA/christianity.

In my Sabbath school class there was only one person who raised his voice against the understanding of "the law of sin and death" which the author presented: A 90 year old, half deaf man. Credit to him

[Dorine]

I hope I didn't leave the impression that I expected people to understand it or believe me just because "I" explained it. That was not my intent. Only the Holy Spirit can give understanding. Maybe my explanations weren't worded appropriately for the group that was there. I keep thinking that if a child should be able to understand it then we have to find a more simple way to explain it. The people in my class are not educated people. Because of that they have very limited vocabulary. They do not have an agenda nor are they pushing their own theories. They are truly confused but don't know it.

[Mimi]

I appreciate hearing how this week's lesson went in local classes. Without having a schedule handy listing teachers, I did not know who would teach it. Turns out, the most liberal teacher presented it as the normal Christian experience. Gladly, we had two in the entire class who gave Romans 6, 7 & 8 in proper context. One was from our Union - a preacher of preachers who knows what the victorious life is. I actually read Allan's outline of Romans 7 vs. Romans 8 believing it could not be refuted. His "Amen" was music to heaven's ears and mine as well. At lunch I expressed my appreciation of his understanding. He said it is oft misunderstood, quoting our condition described in Revelation 3. We are at the point in earth's history when we believe a nominal experience (that of constant failure) is normal. It is not normal. We can be victorious because of grace to pull us out of the pit.

[Richard Myers]

Amen, Mimi!

Dorine, be encouraged. God's word will not return void. You are planting good seed. Some will bear good fruit. Let us look at the example of Jesus with his disciples. 3 1/2 years Jesus labored with them, but none understood that He was the Lamb that was slain from before the foundation of the world. Peter attempted to persuade Him not to go to Jerusalem, knowing that He would be killed. But, Jesus came into this world to die for our sins. Look at all of the sacrifices made by Israel which pointed to Jesus, yet all of the disciples did not understand.

So, if our Master was not discouraged then we ought not be also. With those that I know are deeply deceived, I present truth that they can bear to hear. If we present these simple truths over and over it will help the deceived to better understand their situation. Quoting Jesus is helpful. "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." Matt. 7:16-20.

We can see by Jesus' example that arguments seldom are successful. But, if we plant truth continually, then it will produce a fruitful harvest. We must seek out those that are seeking truth, just as Jesus did. And then, we must take care to not present truth that they cannot bear to hear.

There are three messages that are to be given in the church. The 1888 message, justification by faith, or righteousness by faith. This, is the gospel message which is the first of the three Angels message. The second message to be given in the church is the Laodicean message, for it is applicable to the church in our day. Before one seeks out Christ as Savior, he must understand that he is condemned. Not only does the Laodicean message point this out to our church, as a people, but it provides the solution to the condition. I was so thankful when Mark Finley presented the Sabbath school lesson two quarters ago. He very pointedly expressed the need for revival and Reformation in our church, and gave the Laodicean message to God's church.

The third message is that which opens the heart to the gospel truth. We need to learn a lesson from the example of Jesus. He spent more time healing than preaching. If we would look for ways to minister to the needs of those in the church we would meet with similar success. We are told that the health message is the "right arm" of the gospel message. As we show our love for others in the church it will open the heart of many to receive the gospel truth.

Revival and Reformation is coming. And soon thereafter we will see Jesus coming in the clouds of glory!

[Dorine]

That reminder is encouraging Richard. Very much so. I needed that. Again thank you. It has been a blessed Sabbath day.

[ranger]

An interesting discussion came up during Sabbath School. The question is, is it easier to be saved or lost? There were people on both sides, I am wondering if anyone has some definitive scripture or SOP that address this?

[Richard Myers]

Good to see you back, Ranger! That's a loaded question, but we will give it a try.

The first statement from inspiration that comes to my mind is "The warfare against self is the greatest battle that was ever fought. The yielding of self, surrendering all to the will of God, requires a struggle; but the soul must submit to God before it can be renewed in holiness. 
     Many realize their helplessness; they are longing for that spiritual life which will bring them into harmony with God, and are striving to obtain it. But in vain. . . . Let those desponding, struggling ones look up. . . . 
     When sin struggles for the mastery . . . look to the Saviour. His grace is sufficient to subdue sin. Let your grateful heart, trembling with uncertainty, turn to Him. Lay hold on the hope set before you. . . . His strength will help your weakness; He will lead you step by step. Place your hand in His, and let Him guide you.  He will set free the captive that is held by weakness and misfortune and the chains of sin. . . . He is always near. His loving presence surrounds you. Seek Him as One who desires to be found of you. God's promise is, "Ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." FLB 87.
                                                                 
The man in Romans seven is fighting the greatest battle ever fought. And for awhile he fought it in vain. Attempting to keep the commandments of God in and of ourselves is futile. What a battle, all the time knowing that you are under condemnation for breaking the law of God!

Now Ranger, this is the battle of and unconverted man. When we read Romans eight and much of Scripture, we find that the converted Christian has peace, wonderful peace, that passes all understanding.

This does not mean that the saved have no struggles, no battles, no sorrow, no death. To the contrary, the true Christian glories in his trials, for he knows that they work for his good and to God's glory.

Ranger, my take on this question is that it's much easier to be saved than lost. In the middle of our tribulation we have a friend, the Creator God, that does not allow anything to touch us that is not for our good and His glory. Amid the tribulation we have peace, wonderful peace that passes all understanding. What are your thoughts, Ranger? Which is easier?

[Allan F]

I hope I didn't leave the impression that I expected people to understand it or believe me just because "I" explained it. That was not my intent. Only the Holy Spirit can give understanding. Maybe my explanations weren't worded appropriately for the group that was there. I keep thinking that if a child should be able to understand it then we have to find a more simple way to explain it. The people in my class are not educated people. Because of that they have very limited vocabulary. They do not have an agenda nor are they pushing their own theories. They are truly confused but don't know it.

Hi Dorine, you did not leave such an impression As far as I can understand your input in the Sabbath school was very important. When people hear your view about this issue which goes against the more common view people will hopefully think through the matter more closely and hopefully come to see that there is a different way to understand Rom 7 and 8.

[JimB]

Ranger, my take on this question is that it's much easier to be saved than lost. In the middle of our tribulation we have a friend, the Creator God, that does not allow anything to touch us that is not for our good and His glory. Amid the tribulation we have peace, wonderful peace that passes all understanding. What are your thoughts, Ranger? Which is easier?

I'm not ranger but I would like to add something. I like your response but to be honest every time I've heard this question my answer has always been the same. I think it's easier to be lost. To be lost all the naturally carnal man has to do is nothing. For him it's very easy to always and willingly give into his fleshy desires.

[Mimi]

Hi, Jim. You and Richard have covered two sides of the issue. I believe there is a tiny third element to this, but first: While Richard places the ease of being saved to being committed to Jesus through the epitome of unselfish love and commitment to His service - come what may, the struggle against sin is our greatest battle and it isn't easy. Place that against your naturally carnal man who isn't moved to change anything about him because his sinfulness is so completely natural, it's easier to be lost. Doing nothing is easy if the conscience is dead to all things spiritual.

Take someone who was once a Christian and fell back into a pool of sin. Would his conscience ever bother him as he continued his naturally carnal life? I think it would torment him. That would not be an "easy to be lost" scenario. He would not have a moment's peace because he once had a knowledge of God and did not fight the good fight of faith to resist the inclinations of his fallen nature through power that only comes from God.

Bottom line: a transformation of the mind loves and lives out its fullest potential in Jesus. That kind of commitment easily guides one on the heavenly path to salvation because his eye is fixed on Jesus and Jesus alone. In the mix are fierce temptations designed to ruin and frustrate the resolve to stay with Christ. It is the battle royal but Jesus is with us just as He was with the three captives on the plain of Dura. At some juncture in our Christian walk, sin will become so distasteful to us that we had rather die than sin against Jesus. That is the part that makes it easy to be saved.

Just my two cents.   

[JimB]

Hi, Jim. You and Richard have covered two sides of the issue. I believe there is a tiny third element to this,..

This is what I love about these discussions. We learn from each other. I would agree with you and Richard. When we are fully committed the Father puts us in the hands of Christ and no one can remove them and our burden becomes light and our yoke easy. I guess I was coming at it from the fact that we born into this world with a love of the world and everything it has to offer.

[colporteur]

Verses come to mind (my chopped paraphrases)..... the road to heaven is narrow few there be that find it...the road to destruction is wide.....If it were possible even the elect would be deceived...... Jesus said, referring to his second coming... will I find faith ?.....as it was in the days of Noah.

If  it were easier to be saved the majority would be saved.

[Richard Myers]

It's a loaded question. I like all of the answers. It is indeed easy to be lost, but it is hard to carry a load of sin.

[Mimi]

Yes, it is.

[Chamu]

It's a loaded question. I like all of the answers. It is indeed easy to be lost, but it is hard to carry a load of sin.

Depending on how we approach this question I think both our answers can be right depending on which perceptive do we choice to concentrate on. But in my view, there is one side which is important to emphasis on.

Q. is it easier to be saved or lost?

After Adam sinned he was supposed to die for he had disobeyed the direct word of God. But through his mercy, a plan was presented to Adam which would put salvation within the reach of fallen begins (Gen 3:15)…. Remember all was lost, the only way to redeem the fallen race was for Jesus to pay the price. In this act (of giving us Jesus to die for our sins), God emptied heaven and gave US ALL. In other words, all was done to "guarantee" (English is my second language i don't know if this is the proper word) the redemption of men. Salvation which was impossible was not very possible, all we need to do is choose and surrender entirely to His Grace.

YES we have a battle to win against self, but all the powers we need in that battle has been given to us. He does not only bids us to go and sin no more, He also impacts us with the grace we need to overcome. Remember the way of the Transgressor is Hard, Not the Way of the Obedient.  There is a wonderful small sermon book by Joe crews upon this same topic. I also remember going through one quotation by E.G White which says God has put so many obstacles in the path for the wicked to make it hard for them to be easily lost (it’s a paraphrase I can’t remember the reference maybe someone can help ).

“Many are inquiring, "How am I to make the surrender of myself to God?"    ???You desire to give yourself to Him, but you are weak in moral power, in slavery to doubt, and controlled by the habits of your life of sin. Your promises and resolutions are like ropes of sand. You cannot control your thoughts, your impulses, your affections. The knowledge of your broken promises and forfeited pledges weakens your confidence in your own sincerity, and causes you to feel that God cannot accept you; but you need not despair. What you need to understand is the true force of the will. This is the governing power in the nature of man, the power of decision, or of choice. Everything depends on the right action of the will. The power of choice God has given to men; it is theirs to exercise. You cannot change your heart, you cannot of yourself give to God its affections; but you can choose to serve Him. You can give Him your will; He will then work in you to will and to do according to His good pleasure. Thus your whole nature will be brought under the control of the Spirit of Christ; your affections will be centered upon Him, your thoughts will be in harmony with Him………..Desires for goodness and holiness are right as far as they go; but if you stop here, they will avail nothing. Many will be lost while hoping and desiring to be Christians. They do not come to the point of yielding the will to God. They do not now choose to be Christians.” Steps To Christ Chapter 5

We are never called upon to make a real sacrifice for God. Many things He asks us to yield to Him, but in doing this we are but giving up that which hinders us in the heavenward way. Even when called upon to surrender those things which in themselves are good, we may be sure that God is thus working out for us some higher good. Ministry of healing 474

Good understanding giveth favour: but the way of transgressors is hard. Proverbs 13:15

[Mimi]

Amen, Chamu!!! Beautiful!

[colporteur]

Yes, like many questions the question must be nailed down as to exactly what is meant by the terms. The key word is "easier". What is meant by that ? 
If one means with "easier" which offers more " peace of mind" or which one is "easier on the conscience"... to be saved or....to be lost ?...... the answer is easy.

If by "easier" one means which one " takes less effort" then  the answer is also an easy one. I am not saying one works their way to heaven but striving against the fallen nature and constantly resisting temptation is like rowing up stream. Is it easier to row up stream or to float down stream ?

To follow our fallen nature is like going down a slide. All we have to do is let go and do what comes naturally. In terms of effort that is easy but it is not pleasant to scratch one's leg on a sharp piece of tin on the way down and to land in the mud puddle below.

[Richard Myers]

Good to see you,  Chamu!! We have missed you!!

Your post will be an encouragement to many who are fighting the good fight of faith.

Morris Venden published a book "Hard to be Lost".  The reason why Venden entitled the  book in that manner is because his "gospel" is easy. Just a profession of faith is enough to be saved. Yes, God does a lot to help us be saved, but as we have pointed out, dying to self is the greatest battle we shall ever have to fight.

[Plain Adventist]

I know this reply is a bit late, but I do want to thank you for addressing the error that was presented in the Friday lesson of last week. I have two small children so I am full-time in the children's division, and so have not been involved in an adult Sabbath School in years. However my sister called me yesterday and brought this to my attention.

Error is inconsistent. According to this lesson, Godly living is not optional. However, completely Godly living, on the other hand, is impossible. There is, according to this logic, a point we simply must come up to, but if we go beyond that point, in being even more like Christ, we now cross over into self-sufficiency. Apparently it is not self-sufficient or legalistic to try to live Godly, but if we don't have at least a little bit of sin in our lives, we are now suddenly self-sufficient and legalistic. It seems that God is able to empower obedience as long as we have a little sin mixed in, but if we don't, then He can't empower us.

It's easy to see how untrue this position is. But what is worse, is that this teaching is leading people toward being lost. Especially as we live so near to the end of time, so near to the time when the names of the living will be brought up in the judgment, and we must be sealed for eternity, it is so tragic to be telling people that they ought to be wary of being "too good."

How many Seventh-day Adventists, after reading this lesson, may be led to the very thing the lesson cautions against--self-sufficiency? Will they relax and say, "Well then, I must be doing all right after all. I only have a few very small, inconsequential sins--occasionally a little irritation or speaking a bit sharply, and a little indulgence in spending money on myself (or whatever it may be). I guess I do not need to plead with God to help me overcome these things. I cannot be perfect anyway. I think I should be fine just the way I am."

This, in the truest sense, is looking to ourselves for our righteousness rather than to Christ.