The Remnant Online

Health => Gardening => Topic started by: Richard Myers on June 05, 2008, 11:14:16 AM

Title: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on June 05, 2008, 11:14:16 AM
The blessings that can come from raised bed gardens appear to be significant. Therefore, we will begin a topic to discuss them.

Before building one, I wanted to better understand how to do so and some of the principles involved. Here is a little of what I have read.

When confining a garden within sidewalls, we no longer work our walking paths. Less tilling. Less watering, and less weeding!!

Also, we are in need of less soil and therefore, we can spend some of our resources on creating a better growing medium. Using things such as vermiculite, compost, and peat moss. Not spreading them over a large area and going down deep, keeps the soil in the area where the plants are growing.

The depth of soil for many plants does not have to be deep if the soil is rich in nutrients.  In other words, we create a super soil since we have less area to work with.  Never ever walking on the soil will go a long ways to keeping it healthy.  Never again do we have to turn over the hard soil with a tiller.

I have not gotten to the issue of which plants need deeper soil. That is yet to be learned!!

A side thought....what is the difference between raised beds and growing in pots?  Very little, but some very important differences. What is the most striking difference?
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on June 05, 2008, 11:29:01 AM
The roots can spread better in a raised bed vs. a pot.

I like what you have found. It will help when I can get to constructing my own.

What about elongated horse troughs? Many people use them here for flower gardens. They are not that expensive and they won't rot. WDYT? The ones I have seen are about 6 feet long and about 3 feet high. 
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Wally on June 05, 2008, 01:08:25 PM

A side thought....what is the difference between raised beds and growing in pots?  Very little, but some very important differences. What is the most striking difference?

The nice thing about pots is that you can move them wherever you want.  And, when you grow a few tomatoes in pots you can bring them in in the fall and enjoy tomatoes just a bit longer.  We need a smiley face that smacks its lips. ;)

I think you need to keep a closer eye on the watering situation with pots.  Less soil means quicker dehydration.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Ed Sutton on June 05, 2008, 01:26:32 PM
What about one of those horse troughs but without a bottom set over a double dug ammended plant bed or, a directly on top of a deeply mulch covered plant bed then filled with what ever you want to grow the plants in ?

Even an open double row of interlocking paving blocks instead of a horse trough.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Larry Lyons on June 05, 2008, 08:04:51 PM
I built some boxes this year with some scrap cedar that someone gave me last year. They are only a little over 7 inches deep. I built 3 4X4, 2 3X3 and 3 2X2 foot boxes and filled them with various planting soils compost and vermiculite. So far the plants are looking good.
Coincidentally, one of my neighbors used a steel culvert, the kind that they put under roads as storm drains. He cut it up in pieces about 18 or so inches deep and is planting in them.
Of course that is not something that one can do at home with a hacksaw even if they had a old steel culvert. :)

It sounds like raised beds are getting popular.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Wally on June 06, 2008, 05:10:06 AM

It sounds like raised beds are getting popular.

In this part of the country it is done for two major reasons:  to get a jump on spring (raised beds thaw and dry sooner than the surrounding soil--especially if one has clay soil like me); and for easier soil maintenance and weed control.  Now, if I could just find the time and space to build one . . . .
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on June 06, 2008, 08:29:36 AM

A side thought....what is the difference between raised beds and growing in pots?  Very little, but some very important differences. What is the most striking difference?

The nice thing about pots is that you can move them wherever you want.  And, when you grow a few tomatoes in pots you can bring them in in the fall and enjoy tomatoes just a bit longer.  We need a smiley face that smacks its lips. ;)

I think you need to keep a closer eye on the watering situation with pots.  Less soil means quicker dehydration.

That's it.  Pots are small and need water daily, maybe twice a day at times. But, raised beds have more soil, so do not need watering as often.  The smaller the bed, the more frequent watering.  In moderate climates, the raised beds can be covered easily for extended protection.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Esther 7 on June 10, 2008, 09:20:32 AM
Make sure you put medium sized gravel in the bottom of your pots to facilitate drainage. Also, to keep from having to water so often, make your own self watering system by recycling a 2-liter soda bottle. http://www.instructables.com/id/Self-Watering-Plant-Container-out-of-a-2-liter-bot/
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on June 10, 2008, 09:28:29 AM
That is great, Esther - thanks. Have never tried watering this way.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on May 12, 2010, 07:15:47 AM
We dedicated our first raised bed to strawberries and we are now eating them!  :) I really enjoy the bed. The weeding is easy!  The plants are doing well. We are moving forward with putting in quite a few more.

My questions concern the depth for various plant. Anyone have any experience? Which plants require greater depth than a raised bed affords?  I am not willing to build a raised bed that is more than a foot deep right now. The amount of soil would be huge and I am not using any garden soil presently.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Immanuel on May 12, 2010, 09:57:10 AM
I did all raised beds last year. 6" depth. Grew great tomatoes, summer squash, eggplant, cucumbers, etc. No problems that I noticed, I got a lot of tomatoes though not all of them ripened, but that was due to a cool summer as many people in my area had the same problem.

You do need to have a very good soil with lots of compost material so the plants get good nutrients. My mix was 1/3 peat moss 1/3 vermiculite and 1/3 compost (used my own and several different purchased bags to get a good mix). I bought in bulk and it cost $40 to fill 40 square feet. This year I only need to put in some more compost to fill in where I pulled out the plants from last year.

This is based on the Square Foot Gardening method. My mom, who lives in Calif., has used this method for years with good results. Little weeding, no tilling, and general plant maintenance is much easier. You can get more plants in a smaller area with this method without a reduction in plant quality.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on May 12, 2010, 12:04:09 PM
Thanks Immanuel. Are there any plants that will not do well in 6"?

How about artichokes?
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on May 12, 2010, 12:06:20 PM
Another positive for raised beds:  My strawberries are not getting eaten by whomever. I put chicken wire on the bottom and have covered them with chicken wire. The birds stay out. The cats stay out and whoever else would have been feasting on them are kept away. And, yes that includes Betsy!!  She is still hanging around, but I will add to that in the deer thread.  :)
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Immanuel on May 12, 2010, 12:21:04 PM
I haven't tried root vegetables like carrots, potatoes, etc. I don't know how well they would do - it would be pretty hard to grow an 8 inch long carrot in 6 inches of soil.  :)
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: colporteur on May 12, 2010, 01:30:18 PM
I've got 9 raised beds 4'x8' by 12 '' deep with strawberries, asparagus, flowers, beans, tomatoes, carrots, beets, cilantro,  curly and Italian parsley, sage, lemon mint, spearmint and peppermint, echinaceia, oregano, garlic, chives, and kohlrabies. I have found that if the soil is light it takes alot more watering because of the increased drainage in a raised bed.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on May 12, 2010, 01:31:50 PM
Young man, your gardening efforts are impressive! May God bless you with the bountiful fruits of your labor!
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Immanuel on May 12, 2010, 02:00:47 PM
Cp, what do you use for soil in your beds and what do you use to construct your beds?
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: colporteur on May 13, 2010, 05:07:36 PM
Cp, what do you use for soil in your beds and what do you use to construct your beds?

I used a combination of horse manure and soil that was given me. Unfortunately there was more sand in it than topsoil. If I had it to do over again I would use pure compost. Who needs sand ? I think you have an excellant set up in terms of soil.

I used treated 2"x6"s  and went two boards high. That makes them about 11 inches deep.  I did a little investigation on the arsenic in the boards. On web sites I read that you should not use treated lumber. At the lumber yard they told me there is more arsenic in the seeds of an apple than in a treated board. There is little doubt in my mind though that the more expensive cedar boards are the best.

I mitered the ends of the boards at 45 degrees and used 2 1/2 and 3 inches coated screws. I used boards at a 45 degree angle on the inside of each corner for support and then on each 8' side an 8" in 2" x 6" horizontally centered 4 ft from each end, on the inside, to hold the two board high frames together in the center for greater stability. Then to dress them up a bit I made 2ft. long 4"x4" corner posts, and cut recess notches up and down one corner of the posts so I could screw them onto the corner of the frame. This would be like cutting a 2" x2" board out of the corner of the post.  I mitered the tops at a 45 degree angle and then cut a couple of lines all around the post to make them look nice. I really like the deeper beds but am not content with the soil/sand as it takes so much water.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on May 13, 2010, 05:12:16 PM
I am laying out irrigation line for nine beds. Each bed will have about 30 feet of 1/4 soaker line. The lines apparently will use .75 gallons and hour per 15 feet. I am wondering if I can water four beds from a 3/4 line at 40#.  It seems like it 0ught to work.

cp, are you using drip or soaker line? How many boxes can you get off of one valve?
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: colporteur on May 13, 2010, 05:20:47 PM
I am laying out irrigation line for nine beds. Each bed will have about 30 feet of 1/4 soaker line. The lines apparently will use .75 gallons and hour per 15 feet. I am wondering if I can water four beds from a 3/4 line at 40#.  It seems like it 0ught to work.

cp, are you using drip or soaker line? How many boxes can you get off of one valve?

I am using the old fashioned manual hose in hand. You method is the way to go.
I'm thinking your operation should work.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on May 13, 2010, 05:28:58 PM
I use 1/4 soaker lines for all my large beds. They are the BEST way to go. I turn them on for 20 minutes each morning. Now ... if it would only quit freezing at night. We are to have rain and cold through the weekend. That means more wood! UGH!
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: colporteur on May 13, 2010, 05:37:10 PM
I use 1/4 soaker lines for all my large beds. They are the BEST way to go. I turn them on for 20 minutes each morning. Now ... if it would only quit freezing at night. We are to have rain and cold through the weekend. That means more wood! UGH!

Yes, I'm getting tired of covering things with blankets. When the temp here is only getting 40-50 degrees during the day it puts alot of stress on the plants. It was hard not to put out plants when it was 85 degrees on April 1. Now we are near the middle of May and we are getting winter weather. I need to be about 400 miles further south...but then again...no snakes, no ticks.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on May 14, 2010, 10:35:52 AM
Soaker lines put out more water, so you need a larger supply. For more coverage, we can use drip with less output (longer on time), or I am looking at t-tape which is tubing with built in emitters. I think it will cost a little less than individual emitters. And there is 1/4 line with spaced emitters also.

I don't like having redo something, so I am trying to get it right the first time.

Another option when using soaker lines, I think would be to go from the middle of the bed rather than from the end. this will create shorter runs and therefore equalize the pressure better for a system that is fully taxed.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on May 27, 2010, 09:34:01 AM
I can't bring myself to put gravel between my raised beds. I don't want to grow grass, so what can I do with the paths between beds? Any good ideas?  Wood chips?
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Ed Sutton on May 27, 2010, 02:15:46 PM
Try 3-4 sheets of newspaper directly on the ground, covered with weed barrier from a roll trimmed to the desired width - and consider something to hold it down - possibly gravel on top --  even  heavy wire spikes made for that  25 to a pack.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on May 27, 2010, 06:29:43 PM
Richard, cedar wood chips work well, too. Insects hate them! A few years ago I had about 12 truck loads of cedar chips delivered and dumped - well, I delivered and dumped them  :D , and spread them all over my parking and driveway area. Exposed to the elements for 3 years, they are still there. So, they last.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Ed Sutton on May 27, 2010, 06:47:13 PM
They probably smelled good too.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Ed Sutton on September 07, 2010, 03:12:52 PM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH4SoBk_EeQ&feature=related
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Kelsy on September 07, 2010, 07:01:45 PM
Green houses use shade cloth, in layers between rows...

Rolled roofing, shredded shingles
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Ed Sutton on September 07, 2010, 07:38:12 PM
I guess it would work as weed barrier, but the common use of shadecloth in a greenhouse is a sunlight barrier when the sun is too hot  too intense  and stresses crops.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: JimB on August 19, 2012, 08:39:55 AM
Immanuel, that seems to be the best way for many to start. It is fast, cheap, and easy. I am using doug fir 2x8s also.  If one needs a deeper bed, they can stack two on top of each other.  For many crops, the 8 inch depth is fine.   The raised beds make gardening much more fun than having to til the ground and fight the existing weeds and gophers. We place poultry netting under the beds to keep out the gophers. Any cheap water based paint will add a few years of life to the wood. I bought mistinted paint for $4 a gallon and it is enough to paint all of my beds.

Richard, I grabbed your post from the arsenate thread and quoted it here because I didn't want to hijack the other topic with my questions. While reading this post and your post about getting a garden ready for the winter a light went off. Why I didn't see it before I don't know but even with my small plot of land I could do raised bed gardening and wouldn't have to dump money into a 40 year old tiller that is in need of repairs.

Not sure I'll be able to get anything ready for winter this year but hopefully with careful planning I can do this early next spring and this will give me time to educate myself. Since I admittedly am not much of a handy man. I have a couple of questions. Do the corners of the beds need to be supported with a piece of angle iron or something? That probably depends on the size I assume. As I think about this, my bigger concern is where I'm going to get the soil.

Now to think about where a good spot will be for them.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: JimB on August 19, 2012, 09:42:32 AM
Nevermind... I've already done some digging and there are some very good ideas and instructions out on the web when it comes to actually constructing these raised beds.

However, are there some things that will not do well in a raised bed?
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on August 20, 2012, 08:22:35 AM
Yes, there are some things I would not put in raised beds.  All of my perennials are not in raised beds. Also, corn and potatoes.  I am not sure what else. I have asked, but am not clear on what requires more depth than I have with 8" beds. Not even because my soil is below the top.  I have wire that will let the roots go deeper, but the soil is clay below the bed so I doubt that most of my current crops will penetrate the clay.

You can put a bed in quickly. Don't make a major project out of  it. Do one bed and you will see how to do it.  If you use 2x wood, you will not need to brace it.  Use wood screws, I used deck screws, three at each corner.  You will need a level to get the bed set level.  If you have critters that will attack from below, then you need to put poultry wire in the bottom. 

When sizing the bed keep in mind you want to get to the center easily without climbing into the bed. You don't want to compress the soil.  4 foot wide seems to be the limit. The length is up to you, but I would make a small one to begin with.  Maybe 4x3.  Easy.  I think most poultry netting is in 3ft rolls.  I had to lay down two three foot sections.  I am doing the compost the way Dorine suggested. It is working. So, by next fall I will have a supply to add to my beds. The worms are helping.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on August 20, 2012, 08:26:32 AM
Good instruction! I am gearing up to begin. The greenhouse will come later, but for a little while, I can easily construct the beds. Compost bin? Can't have one because of these pesky bears, so I'll have to buy it.  :(
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Immanuel on August 20, 2012, 10:07:58 AM
My first rows of raised beds were 6" deep, but we have expanded and now have 8" deep beds. We have had good success with all vegetables in our 8" beds. Carrots and radishes grow well, we just get the varieties of carrot that are shorter. Onions and garlic have done well, but we have not tried potatoes. We plant smaller/shorter plants (peppers, okra, cabbage) in the 6" beds and larger plants that need a larger root system in the 8".
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: colporteur on August 20, 2012, 11:20:36 AM
The lighter or more sandy the soil the less benefical a raised bed as you will have to water far more often, accept if you have alot of organic matter in the soil. When I raised garlic and strawberries in raised beds it took watering almost every day when it did not rain. The plants like the ease of spreading their roots but light soils    looses water too easily in a raised bed. I found that many plants while they will do well in a 6-8" deep bed will do better in a 10-12" deep bed. While the beds do not have to be braced they hold their shape better when corner braced. When hand digging up the bed they can shift without bracing and since the weakest part of teh bed is the corners they will hold together better is braced especially after they get some age on them. Corner bracing is very easy to do, just decided what length you want to use as a brace and cut 45 degrees of the ends and screw  them in with 2 1/2 inch deck screws. The only draw back is you have to work around them as they take a little space out of the inside your corners.

2 x 6's work well and then go two high to give you a 11 inch high bed. ( 2x6's are 5 1/2" wide) This way you can have an inch drop in the soil from the top of the bed and still have a 10" deep bed. Two 2x6's are a fair bit cheaper than a 2 x 12 and almost the same height. Then in the outside center on all 4 sides just screw a scrap piece of 2 x 6  about 11" long vertically onto the outside so the two beds so they will stay lined up and the top bed not shift but stay flush.

If you want to go deeper still use a 2x8" on the bottom and a 2x6" on the top. This gives you with an inch drop down or settling of the soil  a 12" bed. Asparsgus goes bonkers in that and the stems will be huge. Asparagus likes well drained soil so they like a raised bed although you may not consider them worthy of taking up a bed all summer since they produce such a short length of time.

If you want to get serious with beds and there is good soil naturally in the area a good way to go is to buy 5-10 yards of black dirt. You can have a whole slew of beds and you can always use black dirt somewhere in the yard. 10 yards of black dirt (screened) usually averages around $200 or so, maybe more in some areas but that will fill many raised. I was happiest with making my beds 4x8 feet. It just depends how serious you want to get but trust me the average gardener will never have two many raised beds. If you have beds you will have something in them. If you get old and weary and do not want to keep up with alot of beds just plant healthy pereniels and mulch them and you will not have to do much work with them.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on August 20, 2012, 02:26:49 PM
Yes, the less soil we use the more nutrients are needed and the more water. Raised beds dry out faster and the less soil the faster it dries out besides being porous. When water and nutrients get more expensive, we will benefit from planting in the ground over a much larger area. In climates where there is rain in the summer this will be a factor. So, keep the tiller for the future.  Yes, I know it will take gas.  :)

I guess what I am pointing out is that there are disadvantages to raised beds. More water and more nutrients have to go into the soil for the intense garden.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Dorine on August 22, 2012, 10:44:07 AM
This is the first year I have tried wood chips in my raised bed gardens. If only I had known about it sooner. I'm super happy with the results. Much less watering and hardly any weeding. When I pull the chips away from the plants the soil is nice and moist and soft. I will go out now and take a picture of one of the wood chip beds and one that didn't get any and show you the difference. When I run out of chips I'm going to use old hay. Photoshop won't work for me so I will send the pictures to Richard or Sybil to post for me.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Dorine on August 22, 2012, 04:19:09 PM
This is a raised bed of bell peppers, sweet basil and yellow eyed beans. Not one weed all summer.
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/djw45/RaisedbedwithwoodchipsPeppersstringbeansandsweetbasil.jpg)

Note the difference in a bed of sage with no wood chips. Could not keep up to the weeds.
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/djw45/Sagefullofweedsnochips.jpg)

My tomato patch was the same. Not a weed.
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/djw45/EvaPurple.jpg)

Some fall seeds planted between rows of wood chips.
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/djw45/Fallseedsplanted.jpg)
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: JimB on August 22, 2012, 04:23:21 PM
Dorine, are these any special kind of wood chips or are they just something from a local sawmill? When do you put them on and you pull them off ever?
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Dorine on August 22, 2012, 04:38:13 PM
They are not from a saw mill. These are wood chips that my husband and I gathered along the highway after a tree trimming crew went through and cleared all types of trees away from power lines.

The chips to use on a garden are a combination of hardwood, and softwood with all the needles and leaves with it.  I planted my garden first this year and then added the chips.  But as you can see by the picture of the fall planting I just pulled the chips aside, exposing the ground and planted. I will do the same next spring. As the seedlings grow I will keep pulling the chips in around the plants adding more chips as needed. The most important thing is to not work the chips deep into the soil. Keep them on the surface. Some of the chips get mixed in with the surface soil but that's ok. The worms have already started breaking down the chips.  To keep the weeds down the chips should be 6-8 inches thick.  My garden is much healthier this year and I think it's because the chips have kept the soil evenly moist, and weed free.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on August 22, 2012, 08:33:14 PM
You bed is beautiful, Dorine.  And your tomatoes!!!   You must feed the deer and elk in another area of the garden!

Alfalfa works really well also.  I tried mulching one year in a regular garden and the bermuda took over. Mulching is like fertilizing bermuda grass! :( 
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Dorine on August 23, 2012, 05:09:41 AM
We have been so blessed with not having problems with wildlife with a couple of exceptions....a groundhog that ate off my spring lettuce. I managed to persuade him to move on. Now I have a cute little chipmunk that loves to dig deep holes around the roots of my strawberries. We have deer that pass through our property from the woods behind but never come into the garden.

Tell me more about the alfalfa. Is it a ground cover or in hay form? I do not have problems with Bermuda grass but I do have to pull out what we call wild pea vines and sometimes wild raspberry vines occasionally.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Marelis on August 25, 2012, 03:12:29 PM
Dorine, I do really enjoy seeing your gardening photos. You have had great success with wood chips.  It is wonderful to read the gardening threads and to learn from each other.

My raised gardens are very deep because I put up boards around pre-existing double-dug gardens and then added all of my own compost and sugar cane mulch on top, so they are now no-dig/lasagne beds.

Putting up boards is time-consuming and costs a bit by the time you buy brackets, screws etc.  I have one spot left for another garden bed.  I may try a round mound built up on the earth in alternating layers of alfalfa and homemade compost.

If I had timber I would love to try a Hugelkultur bed:http://carrotcache.com/innovations/innovations-2011/hugelbeds/index.html
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on August 25, 2012, 04:48:45 PM
Dorine, you have deer that pass through and keep going?  :) God loves you!!   

The alfalfa for a raised bed that I have used and seen, is hay or pellets. Hay, like your chips contain the moisture and keep the weeds from growing. But, they add a great deal of nutrient as it decomposes. Alfalfa is very rich in nutrients including nitrogen.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Dorine on August 25, 2012, 05:16:48 PM
Yes Richard God has been very good to us. We have been amazed that the deer have not been interested in our garden.

I will have to find out about a source of alfalfa hay nearby. I would like to try that when my pile of wood chips run out.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Marelis on August 25, 2012, 10:13:36 PM
Dorine, you have deer that pass through and keep going?  :) God loves you!!   

The alfalfa for a raised bed that I have used and seen, is hay or pellets. Hay, like your chips contain the moisture and keep the weeds from growing. But, they add a great deal of nutrient as it decomposes. Alfalfa is very rich in nutrients including nitrogen.
I paid $18 for a bale of alfalfa hay and $10 for a straw bale. I have a 20 ft x 3.5 ft new raised garden bed along a fence that whose soil is like gravel and dirt but in a fantastic location (facing north, in full sunshine.) I know how to bring it to life now!
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on August 25, 2012, 10:22:04 PM
Yes, and we remember your worm farm!  :)    My beds are not very deep, but I use none of the native soil. I brought compost in.  All of the crops I have planted have done well. I am sure that the nutrient level has to be maintained with new compost regularly with out much depth.  I know you said you double dug the ground below your bed. I, too have done the same, but I do not think my plants are going through my poultry wire into the native soil. I had mixed sandy loam and clay so that the plants could reach into it, but so far I do not see it happening. 

Alfalfa is getting expensive. But, it is worth the price to get the nutrients into the soil. I am getting bermuda into my beds, so I can't mulch, but am considering alfalfa pellets.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Marelis on August 25, 2012, 10:51:31 PM
The native soil may soften and improve over time, do you think?
Alfalfa is expensive. I have a bag of inoculated seeds to use as a green manure. This would have to be the cheapest way to get nitrogen into the soil. I bought the alfalfa hay to kickstart this bed as a one-off treatment for the garden.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on August 25, 2012, 11:48:16 PM
Absolutely! With your compost, worms, and alfalfa it has to improve!  :)  Are you adding any kind of soil to the raised bed?  Since you are going to be higher than the native soil, and because you have gravel in the soil, you may want to bring some soil from elsewhere in your yard. Exchange some of the gravel soil for other soil where you may be walking between other beds.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on March 07, 2013, 08:16:36 AM
Photos of raised bed designs: Here (https://www.google.com/search?q=raised+beds+designs&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=dne&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Bbw4Uf6ZN4e8qgGKi4CADA&ved=0CFUQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=495)
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on March 07, 2013, 08:39:12 AM
Wow!!! A picture is worth a thousand words!!!

A thought after looking through them.  One of the important benefits with raised beds is that the soil is not compressed by walking on them. If spacing is not provided to access the whole bed, then that benefit is lost.  Keep a suitable pathway so that the whole bed can be easily reached.

Also, remember to place a barrier such as poultry netting in the bottom of the bed if you have little creatures that are hungry.

And, in seeing many beautiful beds placed in a lawn setting, remember that some grasses will invade the garden. If you have no experience with creeping grass that spreads like wildfire, take heed, that you know what you are getting into when placing raised beds in a lawn. We have Bermuda grass. It is a great lawn for dogs and kids, but is something that the garden, any kind, sees as the enemy. It will win in the end.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on March 30, 2013, 08:23:42 PM
I got started on the raised beds and had to stop for an entire week. The business of life simply took over and they were placed on the back burner. But, it is still early in the season especially at this elevation. We have had some unusually warm weather so I am encouraged that it will be warmer in May than usual so I can actually plant the squash I started too early.  :-\ They are at the 3-leaf stage and are really making me nervous. Soon, they will take over and it will be a little house of horrors until the ground is ready to receive them. Anyway, the plan this week is to finish the boxes, screen the bottoms and get them as well positioned as possible.

Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on May 16, 2013, 04:22:56 AM
I am such an amateur but even that is not going to stop me while going forward.  ;D While in town yesterday, I saw two huge spools of row covers at the nursery, both thin and thick. $1.19/yard and $3.50/yard respectively. With that find, I will be able to finish the little hoop house for the raised beds. And with May 15 behind us, it will be full steam ahead. May God bless my feeble efforts!   
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on May 16, 2013, 09:59:07 AM
He will!!
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Dorine on May 16, 2013, 11:58:07 AM

This is a raised bed of bell peppers, sweet basil and yellow eyed beans. Not one weed all summer.


Note the difference in a bed of sage with no wood chips. Could not keep up to the weeds.


My tomato patch was the same. Not a weed.


Some fall seeds planted between rows of wood chips.


Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on May 16, 2013, 02:06:57 PM
Did you move or change them within photobucket? That would be my first guess.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Dorine on May 16, 2013, 02:45:00 PM
I do not remember doing anything to my photobucket. If I did, I didn't realize what I was doing.  Is there a way you can delete my post or a way I can put them back into the same post?
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on May 16, 2013, 03:24:54 PM
Yes, I will delete the links. You can copy what you wrote and put it in a new post. After it is all situated, I'll delete the first one.  :)
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on May 16, 2013, 03:27:54 PM
Dorine, I looked at other posts with your photos in them and they are gone, too. Something is up with your photobucket. If you cannot get it figured out, e-mail me your photos @ mimi@remnant-online.org and I will post them for you.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Dorine on May 16, 2013, 03:44:56 PM
Wow I wonder what has happened. I will try and repost the pictures that have been deleted. I checked Photobucket out and they are still there. Thank you Mimi.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Dorine on May 16, 2013, 04:06:34 PM
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/djw45/Gardens%202012/RaisedbedwithwoodchipsPeppersstringbeansandsweetbasil.jpg) (http://s1210.photobucket.com/user/djw45/media/Gardens%202012/RaisedbedwithwoodchipsPeppersstringbeansandsweetbasil.jpg.html)

This is a raised bed with bell peppers, sweet basil, and yellow eyed beans. Not a weed all summer with the wood chips down.

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/djw45/Gardens%202012/Sagefullofweedsnochips.jpg) (http://s1210.photobucket.com/user/djw45/media/Gardens%202012/Sagefullofweedsnochips.jpg.html)

Note the difference in a bed of sage with no wood chips. Could not keep up to the weeds.

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/djw45/Gardens%202012/Tomatoesingreenhouseandnoweedsallsummer.jpg) (http://s1210.photobucket.com/user/djw45/media/Gardens%202012/Tomatoesingreenhouseandnoweedsallsummer.jpg.html)

My tomato patch was the same. Not a weed.

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/djw45/Gardens%202012/EvaPurpletomatoesingreenhouse.jpg) (http://s1210.photobucket.com/user/djw45/media/Gardens%202012/EvaPurpletomatoesingreenhouse.jpg.html)

Another tomato patch. This was the first year for the Eva Purple tomato and I'm hooked. All my tomatoes this year are from seed saved from 2012. I have about 150 plants in my greenhouse this year. Extra's are sold for investment.

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/djw45/Gardens%202012/2012woodchippileathome1.jpg) (http://s1210.photobucket.com/user/djw45/media/Gardens%202012/2012woodchippileathome1.jpg.html)

This is my woodchip pile that is running low. What a back breaking job this was to collect but it has been worth it so far.


Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on May 16, 2013, 06:44:42 PM
Oh, Dorine! What a beauty! I am so happy for you. I have a smaller version of your first one and it is mighty humble, but it is my first time out of the chute, as they say. The chips make a world of difference. I plan on using them, too. Am also going to use hay bales. A friend has a beautiful start on her garden and it is all hay bales.

Now, something funny happened the other day when I went to check on the potatoes. The hay had sprouted and was growing while the potatoes were doing nothing, so I removed most of it until the potato leaves begin to come up. Thought that was hysterical!
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Dorine on May 17, 2013, 05:40:27 AM
When my wood chip pile is gone I will start using hay also. I use leaves and seaweed for the paths between the beds. I have a few more pictures to post that I will take this morning.
I had to smile at your experience with the hay and potatoes. Do you think that will be a problem? I've heard conflicting views on using hay but it's all I have access to once the chips are gone.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on June 12, 2013, 04:16:25 PM
My son has a problem with deer also. :(     He has raised beds.  He bent pvc over the beds and then covered the beds with netting. It works. Today, I did some research on different drip systems for raised beds. While looking around I found something I think is fantastic.  It is a support system for raised bed covers. I like it because it does not require expensive pvc connectors. Instead it uses heat to bend the pvc.  pvc is available in 20 ft lengths. Here is a video explaining the process. I think you will like it.

Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on July 16, 2013, 04:52:52 PM
 ;D Have been eating homegrown kale and chard from my garden for the very first time in my life. What a blessing! And today, the drink of the day is a watermelon and banana smoothie. What a great combination on a summer's day! Wish it got hot enough to grow melons at this altitude. Can't have it all. Get this: The temperature outside is presently 66o. I wasn't going to say anything but it is so unusual that it is worth a mention. The monsoons have begun and for the first time this summer, the fields are green. Am so blest! 
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on July 16, 2013, 10:05:51 PM
Growing bananas is good enough. You can buy the watermelons!  :)  66? Is that cool ? At the elevation you are at, it would not seem unusual. On the other hand, a 66 day in New Mexico sounds pretty cool! Is this a portent of things to come?  I am planning on living on Kale when the time comes. Kale and collards. Congratulations! Good job!!!
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on July 22, 2013, 08:30:52 PM
Little garden update. I had to move the squash a month ago to a warmer bed. If you can believe it, I planted it way too early, yet it still only has four leaves and is very small. It may not grow well at this altitude. :( We simply do not have the heat to sustain it.

The kale and chard are so very happy and green and tall and lush! I have been pulling plants and eating of them daily and sharing with friends. What a blessing. Same with the lettuces. Just glorious. This afternoon, I started my third and fourth plantings of lettuce and a second crop of kale. Those, along with the tomatoes will probably be the limit of what I can grow. Am very happy, very pleased and grateful to God for this experience. 
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mark W on July 22, 2013, 09:22:23 PM
Well Mimi, what you got growing is probably some of the best stuff for you. Got to love them greens. I would branch out into more line of the same like cabbage, broccoli, brussels sprouts maybe. Might even try some asian greens like bok choi or asian cabbage. If you can get a tomato to grow then you should be able to plant some early potatoes, or many of the other cool weather root crops. Look at Territorial Seed catalog on line or ask for one for they and Fedco seed do some catering to those in cool climates. 
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on July 23, 2013, 05:09:48 AM
Thanks, Mark, I will. My neighbor is having great success with broccoli and cabbage. My broccoli is just coming up. And, we are experimenting with new potatoes. I harvested a dozen of them (I suspected a problem with sour soil) and discovered the organic russet turned to mush while the reds were perfect, so that is what I will pursue in a much longer, sandy bed. There should be time for a second crop.

The cilantro is doing well, too.  The German, Zebra and Roma tomato plants are loaded with fruit. What excitement!
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on July 25, 2013, 05:26:02 PM
Amen!! God is so very GOOD!  It is exciting to see the plants then the fruit and veggies coming along.  I found out why I have no squash. Never before did the dear eat them, but now they eat the blooms, the leaves, and the fruit!! Going to cover them up!!!
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on July 25, 2013, 05:59:13 PM
Yes, cover them up while you round up some buck shot and spray the deer quite thoroughly! I'm serious. Or, use rubber bullets. They get the message very quickly. It took 4 rounds of rubber bullets to scare away our resident bobcat. It was determined to stay and continue eating our domesticated animals, but the pain of that 4th bullet convinced him to leave and not return. He had our neighbor's cat in his mouth at the time of his departure.  :( 
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on October 22, 2013, 11:58:25 AM
The raised beds are making gardening a little easier. And, I have not had to buy gas for the tiller. That is a good thing since we know in the future things will be more difficult. We can learn to garden without tilling open ground also. Where the soil needs a lot of amending, the raised beds seem to be a good choice.

I got a good buy on some redwood 2x6s, so I put together a new bed yesterday. Leveling the ground was the hardest and took the most time in creating the raised bed. But, if you have not tried making one, it is very easy. Buy three 8 foot 2x6s. Cut one in half, Home Depot will do it for you. You now have your  sides and end pieces. I lay them out on the ground to get the dimensions on the ground, to know where it must be leveled. When I get the ground close, I then place two or three screws in each corner and finish the leveling.  You can double dig before or after, or you don't need to dig at all. I think you will be better off digging down if you have enough good replacement soil to go deeper with it. Or if your soil is good, then double digging is going to loosen it up.

In my other beds, I placed chicken wire on the bottom to keep out the gophers. I did not on this bed. We will see how it works. I never used chicken wire on my open bed gardens, and did not have a lot of trouble with gophers even though they make a mess in the lawn.


(http://remnant-online.com/Images/raised_bed.jpg)
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Mimi on October 22, 2013, 12:30:56 PM
Excellent! What is your fall crop, Richard?
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on October 22, 2013, 02:09:42 PM
If you are speaking of what is already growing, there is kale, collards, chard, spinach, carrots, and snow peas. If you are looking at the empty bed, I am not sure. Thinking about some garlic and more carrots.  I am also thinking that I might cover it or a smaller bed and try to keep the greens growing through the winter.  The collards and kale survive the winter, but stop growing in the cold weather. If I can cover them, then the sun will heat the soil on sunny, but cold days. That ought to cause them to keep growing so we can eat them all winter. Just a thought. I am growing more concerned about commercial food. And, a thinking ahead. My neighbor introduced a new thought as I shared this with him. He said that if I would burn my cutting torch in the enclosed space, the plants will thrive on the carbon dioxide given off.  :)  As it stands, according to Al Gore, my plants don't need any extra co2, they already have too much.  And, if you believe that, the Golden Gate Bridge is for sale.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on October 23, 2013, 12:26:17 PM
When encouraging how easy it is to make a raised bed, I suggested 2x6 boards.  You could even use 2x4 boards. It depends on what you are wanting to plant, how fertile your soil is and if you are going to double dig down. Most of my beds are 2x8 boards. Some will place another board on top of the first creating a much deeper bed. That will be more expensive for the boards and the soil to fill the bed. 

If you have never built a raised  bed, you might want to make the first one very easy. Use 2x4s and make it small. Maybe 2 feet by 4 feet. Plant flowers or lettuce. See how easy it is to make and how much fun it is to weed!!   I think I may have talked myself into making one.  :)
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on June 06, 2014, 01:06:04 PM
Dorine, thank you for sharing. I am posting this photo for you. I finally got the wood chips in the bed instead of in the pathways!!

(http://remnant-online.com/Images/ch.jpg)

And, thank you, Mark. Those are tomato plants from your seeds.  They are doing well, except for one Brandywine that came from the store.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Dorine on June 06, 2014, 01:58:32 PM
Looks good Richard. I think a mulched raised bed looks so neat and clean. I notice your plants are spaced at quite a distance from each other. Is that so you can tend them easier or are you going to plant other things with them?
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on June 06, 2014, 07:58:58 PM
They will take up the room. At least they did last year. They were too close. I am hoping that this will be about right. Most of the heirlooms were reaching for seven feet when my support gave way. Not sure what will happen this year. :)

Notice the chips are like yours. All wood and no leaf.  I separated the logs from the junk and got a small amount of wood chips. I know they will not break down as fast, but they look nice and are easy to work with.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: colporteur on February 27, 2017, 04:44:53 PM

I have done a fair bit of research on treated wood for raised beds. I am hearing everything from bad news to harmless. Arsenic was the biggest concern with the idea that it may leach into the soil and be picked up by the plants. While that being a safety hazard has always been controversial they say that arsenic is no longer used in treating wood. Copper is still used and apparently some chemicals but any information on what that includes seems to be very evasive. The verdict by the most wary seems to be "we really don't know so better to err on the side of safety." There seems to be some consensus that to use heavy plastic liner on the inside of the boards is a good idea in most any bed #1 because it will largely waterproof the boards and make them last longer and #2 if the boards are treated plastic will keep any leaching to a minimum. I am planning to put in 20, 4' x 10' beds but the verdict is still out on what I will use for construction. I'm looking at double stacked treated 2x6 pine, untreated 2x6 pine, and rough sawn, wet 2x 7 1/2 white oak. The oak is the cheapest and would fall in between the treated and untreated pine in terms of duration from rotting. Cedar is sky high in cost and some of the other desirable wood like hemlock is not available here. My beds will not be cheap but neither is produce. With the hauling in of good soil they will run in the neighborhood of $150.00 each. I can skimp in terms of depth and soil but I feel if I'm going to go to the work and expense I want to be happy with my beds. I prefer to have my beds over 12"" deep and more like 15" as underneath is a very dense and semi sterile clay. The roots can go down for moisture after I dig it up with a spade  but I do not think they will get much nutrient beneath the bottom of the bed. Since plants often get most of their nutrients in the top layer of soil anyway maybe deep nutrients is not that vital.
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: Richard Myers on February 28, 2017, 08:41:41 AM
Sounds like fun, cp!   Love that new fertile soil!  The shocking truth that I learned after filling by beds, was that the soil I bought, disappeared after a few years. I can't afford to keep buying compost, so I am building up the soil I have. It is a long term project with wood chips and worms and some rice hulls thrown in.  It will take a few years to see the results. In the meantime, my raised beds are in need of more soil.  :(
Title: Re: Raised Bed Gardens
Post by: colporteur on February 28, 2017, 09:34:46 AM
Sounds like fun, cp!   Love that new fertile soil!  The shocking truth that I learned after filling by beds, was that the soil I bought, disappeared after a few years. I can't afford to keep buying compost, so I am building up the soil I have. It is a long term project with wood chips and worms and some rice hulls thrown in.  It will take a few years to see the results. In the meantime, my raised beds are in need of more soil.  :(

  Is that because the compost tends to be fluffy and when it settles and becomes more sense it drops ? Kind of reminds me of taking a rolling pin to a bag of potato chips. We have a lot of leaves and brush here that I will add to the beds. I am amazed with all of our meals at home how our scraps add up. We have half of a 30 gal. garbage can full and we have only been here 3 mo.. A nice addition will be if I can find a farmer with some semi rotten hay bales that have been out in the rain. They tend to build soil quickly and are usually free. Unfortunately we had to remove four oak trees  (two of them nice trees) to bring in enough sunlight. Now I have enough wood for perhaps two winters, however. Am looking for a small saw mill to cut and dry the trunks so I can have some nice boards. I talked to a saw mill owner last night and I can buy from him rough sawn white oak for the beds at .50 a board ft. That's only $2.00 a board for a 1x6x8.5 ft.. If I go with that I will go 2 boards high. I may be able to purchase 1.5 or 2 " thick lumber 7 or 8 " wide for the same price per board ft.  and again go  2 boards high. That would cut my cost per bed down by up to 30%.