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Health => Healthful Living => Topic started by: Richard Myers on February 11, 2001, 08:33:00 AM

Title: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on February 11, 2001, 08:33:00 AM
Much controversy surrounds immunization. I have often wondered why anyone who would not eat animal products would inject them into their children.

It is now admitted that there is a danger. If we rely upon the government to protect us, rather than understanding the issues using the light we have been given we shall find ourselves deceived.

We now find that cow products from countries with BSE (mad cow disease) have been used in vaccines.

abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/vaccines_madcow010209.html

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Curt on February 12, 2001, 11:05:00 AM
Quite true Bro. Richard and the US FDA are surprised to find out that their guidelines were not being strictly followed with regards to companies use of animal products from countries with known BSE activity.

The latest on Immunization is trying to make it painless so a trial is in place for a patch to be worn on the skin in place of needles for kids.

However it is done, we need to look at the issues associated with Immunization.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on September 15, 2004, 06:31:00 PM
It is being reported that there appears to be a relationship between the hepatitis B vaccine and MS. Forbes
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Sister Marie on September 15, 2004, 07:36:00 PM
Now that is a interesting thought. There is so much we do not know.

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With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on October 11, 2004, 01:34:00 PM
One of the concerns regarding immunizations that we have is the fact that some are produced from animal sources. Why is the is a concern? Because if it is dangerous to eat animals and their products how much more dangerous to inject it into the blood stream.

Is this a valid concern? I think so in the light of the rampant spread of serious animal diseases such as BSE and Scrapie. Could these diseases be spread to man through immunizations? You be the judge.

"In many countries in Asia and Africa limited supplies of imported rabies vaccines derived from culture of human cells have been available. Many people continue to be offered indigenously produced sheep brain vaccine after exposure to a rabid animal. Scrapie is known to exist in sheep around many centres where the vaccine is produced. In the mountain sheep of the Kumaon foothills in the Himalayas, for example, scrapie was established more than four decades ago and 1-10% of the flock was reported to have the disease in 1961.2 In the Himalayan foothills the Central Research Institute continues to produce four to five million doses of sheep
brain vaccine annually. Transmission of abnormal prion protein, PrPsc, in sheep brain vaccine might have occurred in some of the 30 documented cases of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in different regions in India.3 Because Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease has a latency of about 20 years, many recipients of sheep brain rabies vaccine could emigrate to Britain before becoming ill."

BMJ Journals

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Curt on October 04, 2005, 07:24:00 AM
Mon Oct 3, 4:04 PM ET

CHICAGO (Reuters) - More than a third of U.S. pediatricians surveyed said they would tell families who refuse all vaccinations for their children to look elsewhere for care, according to a study published on Monday.
ADVERTISEMENT

Of 302 pediatricians questioned, 256 said they had encountered a parent who refused to let a child receive at least one vaccination in the previous 12 months, and 162 -- 39 percent of the group -- who had a parent refuse all vaccinations.

The refusals were most commonly based on safety concerns, worries about children getting multiple vaccines at once, philosophical reasons and religious beliefs, said the report from Chicago's Rush Medical College.

"In the case of parents refusing specific vaccines, 82 (28 percent of the doctors) said that they would ask the family to seek care elsewhere; for refusal of all vaccines, 116 (39 percent) of pediatricians said they would refer the family" to another doctor, said the report.

The reason physicians cite most often for wanting to drop such patients were lack of shared goals and lack of trust, added the study published in the October issue of the Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine.

The study said the rate of unvaccinated children in the United States has risen significantly since 1995. While most parents continue to believe that vaccination is important, a large number express concern about safety, it said.

The
World Health Organization said earlier this year that vaccines prevent more than 2 million deaths per year globally, mainly among children; but it said many Internet sites have appeared offering "unbalanced, misleading and alarming vaccine safety information" that is confusing both patients and health workers.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Sister Marie on October 04, 2005, 09:07:00 AM
I don't know what the ans. is on this. When my children were small I had them get them. But as adults me and my daughter and oldest son never get them. In the last 21 years we rarely get colds, no flu onless it is 24 hour flu and then very very seldom. How does one account for people that don't take the shots and find them in such good health concerning flu and colds??? It has to be in what we eat.... or maybe more to the point, what we don't eat.
What do you think?

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With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: WendyForsyth on October 04, 2005, 10:34:00 AM
Do you also realize that alot of doctor's will report you to CPS, and also the public school will report you to CPS now, for not having your child vaccinated.

It's getting harsh out there. I almost lost my kids this year, and vaccines became the least of the issues.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Sister Marie on October 04, 2005, 12:25:00 PM
Carol was telling me that in Thunderbird Academy in Scottsdale, Az. she would not have been allowed to graduate if she had not finelly gotten her shots. That was some 20 years ago.

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With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Curt on October 04, 2005, 09:54:00 PM
Hi,

it is a dilema and it is a personal decision at that. In principle I do not see the point or necessity to get a shot for something we should be prevented from naturally like the flu. We take medication for cholesterol while taking in  all sources. We take medication for constipation while not heeding the information we receive about a high fibre diet.

In some countries the probability of contracting certain diseases is much higher than in the more developed countries. Personal risk is therefore a concern.

So it really depends upon your personal health condition, your personal conviction on such matters, the environment in which you live or moving to, the governmental regulations for the area, etc.

It is not a simple topic. However, for Doctors to refuse to treat or work with you and move you over to another Doctor because you do not have a need for it is the real issue at hand here. For citizens to report you because of their sensitivity towards children or their fear for themselves is pitiful when they see that you are not careless in the overall care and training of your children. It is selfish.

So far, our Doctors have worked with us and it has has not been an issue thank GOd but one never knows when it will be.

What are your thoughts?

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Sister Marie on October 04, 2005, 09:57:00 PM
Kind of sounds like world war two when people could not trust their friends or neighbors or even some family as all were told to tell on one another.

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With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Sherwin on October 04, 2005, 11:55:00 PM
As far as flu vaccines I'm not sure if a person really needs them or not at this point in time. But when I think of vaccines for diseases like polio then yes I think the government has the right to say that we must be vaccinated to stop epidemics. If the bird flu gets going I just don't know, on the one hand there is personal and possibly religious freedom but on the other hand if by exercising my personal freedom I cause others to get sick and die do I have that right? Where does the greater good of society trump personal freedoms and convictions? And yes I realize the prophetic implications of my questions.

RichardS

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: WendyForsyth on October 05, 2005, 01:55:00 AM
Honestly, depending on the flu and everything, or something like Pneumonia, it doesn't always have to do with prevention. A virus or deadly bacterial agent is far different than someone caring for themselves properly. Someone could be in perfect health and follow all the health laws, and get hit with a terrible strain of the flu and are we going to say it's God's will if they die because they weren't vaccinated (I personally do not believe vaccines work in the case of the flu, but an example)? Or Pneumonia? Should we refuse antibiotics for ourselves or our children because we should have a strong immune system and then just say it is God's will when they die? I think not. I have almost never given my children antibiotics. Very rarely. But, when my daughter had a 106 temp and was hallucinating and it all came on with no warning, no cough, in about the space of half an hour....you bet I got her on antibiotics and heavy doses of Tylenol and Ibuprophen immediately. Still it was extremely difficult to kick. I believe my children have strong immune systems because I haven't used many antibiotics, but I sure won't turn them down when it is prudent to use them. I believe God gave the men who invented these things that spark of brilliance for a reason, and we are to use prudence with them just as in every other area of our lives. I believe Mrs.White chastised one family for not using what was available and letting their daughter die and misinterpreting her writings on this subject.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Bill Wennell on October 05, 2005, 05:40:00 AM
http://www.sdadefend.com/onlinebooks/vaccination_frame.htm

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Bill Wennell
USDA Meat & Poultry Inspector
bible4u@localnet.com

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Curt on October 05, 2005, 08:26:00 AM
Wendy & Sherwyn, you are going through the same thoughts we all have and again, there is no straight answer for anyone. Based upon my knowledge and information I will make a different decision to each of you. However, we all have a duty and responsibility to do the best for an ill person including ourselves in time of need. For me that would mean serious Hydrotherapy if I believe that a particular Hydrotherapy treatment will take care of the situation, for another it may mean an immediate trip to the Emergency department, we cannot legislate the action.
The experience in Battle Creek Sanitarium was a real show of faith where they would use no medication and got involved in a lot of prayer over a patient's serious condition situation and see God bless. Can we do that today? Left to be answered.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: WendyForsyth on October 05, 2005, 06:56:00 PM
That has been done recently by parents, and the children were immediately removed from the custody of their parents and also the healthy children. We are living in different times. I think that we can do all those things AND follow the law, render unto Caesar....and not have our children taken away from us.

I know that just because I vaccinate my child does not mean I stop praying for them. If my God is strong enough to heal my child of any illness, then my God is strong enough to protect my child from ill effects of vaccines if I am forced to do so at the peril of losing custody to the state. And yes...this is a different stance than I used to have. I believe that I have a more informed, balanced outlook than I used to.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on October 31, 2005, 07:22:00 PM
Posted by Bill Wennell 10-31-05 and moved from a duplicate topic.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/achickenandeggproblemhowtospeedupproductionofflushots  

While this article is not even the tip of the iceburg, it gives a little peak behind the scenes of just how vaccines are produced. One might logically wonder just how safe vaccines are or can be given the un-natural ways that they are produced, the chemicals involved, not to mention the DNA and cells of different (mostly unclean) animals that are injected into YOUR body. How can we logically lawd this man made invention for the wonderful strides it has apparantly given us against a multitude of different germs. Or has Satan really been behind the cure all along?

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Sherwin on November 04, 2005, 03:51:00 PM
I guess that in many ways it seems to me that any vaccine is better than no vaccine. Though I doubt I will ever get a flu vaccine I have had them for many other things. Just think of what the polio vaccine did for humans around the world, yes it made some of them sick but by and large it was safe, much safer than not having it. Though I'm a late baby boomer I still recall hearing my folks talking in hushed voices about people they knew who had gotten that dreaded disease. Many diseases have been virtually wiped out by vaccines, can there be any doubt that the knowledge to make them came from God?

In the flu epidemic of 1918/1919 18+ million people lost their lives, including my fathers mother. Oh what they would have given for hope back then.

RichardS

[This message has been edited by Richard Sherwin (edited 11-04-2005).]

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: WendyForsyth on November 04, 2005, 11:44:00 PM
I'm one that tends to have mixed feelings about vaccines. A necessary evil perhaps?

I would never for example allow my children to be exposed to:

smallpox
polio
whooping cough
mumps
meningitis
and a few others I can't think of.

But there are other diseases that our bodies do okay making antibodies to, such as chicken pox and Hep.B is another that I don't believe should be given at infancy.

So it isn't an issue that is black and white. At least not in my humble opinion.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Liane H on November 05, 2005, 02:27:00 AM
It was interesting to note when I was at the doctor's office I asked the nurse that with me having diabetes and being in the risk group should I get the flu shot. I told her I have not been given one for many years, get maybe a mild symptoms. I looked to her and she shook her head no.

It makes one wonder, does it not?

Like WendyF I have mix feelings about some things regarding vaccines and flu shots. I have thought of it as the lesser of two evils.

It is interesting to note and would have to look it up again, but the smallpox vaccine wears off after years and many of us are no longer immune to it. As well there is not enough of the vaccine to give to people and those of us that are older are at risk of dying from the injection even if it was available.

Sure a mix bag to me.

Liane, the Zoo Mama

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on November 05, 2005, 07:52:00 AM
Maybe just maybe, there needs to be a little investigation into what is being injected? If a doctor continues to violate simple health principles in his own life, maybe he is not the one to trust with one's health.

Maybe this is not a cut and dry matter of trusting the medical system with whatever they offer. They are very good at surgery, but when it comes to diabetes most fail the test of scientific objectivity. The same with heart disease and osteoporosis and high blood pressure and infectious disease which includes cancer.

We are coming to the days that the Bible speaks of when man is going to be given a test as to whether he will put his trust in the Word of God rather than the doctrines of man. We would like to separate out the doctors, but I am afraid this is not possible.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: WendyForsyth on November 05, 2005, 09:38:00 AM
I completely agree Brother Richard that what is in the Smallpox vaccine is pure evil. I can assure you, I have researched it and read what I believe is the most revealing books on the subject.

However, that being said, the disease is even more evil and it has been far too long since any of us has seen a family member dying from scabs and crustaceous boils oozing together on the face, not from some nebulous bacterium of the disease but rather from the fact that they cannot open their eyes to see, mouth to take in food, or nose to breathe.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Won Bae on November 05, 2005, 10:32:00 AM
We should be open minded about vaccinnations. Not all the vaccnines arae good, at the same time one should not make a blanket statement as to all vaccines are bad. If one studies about the medical history, one would find out that the vaccinations did wonders to this disease ridden world. Just because some cases went bad, let's not blame the whole project.

Won

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Michelle on November 06, 2005, 02:29:00 PM
I agree with WendyF and Won Bae.  I have friends who will not vaccinate their children, yet at least one of these children has grown up and is now a missionary with her church somewhere in South America.  People who do not vaccinate depend on the "herd" immunity of others who have been.  Once they're outside the herd, they are in trouble!  

M

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Sherwin on November 06, 2005, 05:09:00 PM
Sometimes you just have to choose the lessor of two evils. Like I said earlier, most times a bad vaccine is better than no vaccine.

RichardS

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Clive Nevell on November 06, 2005, 06:58:00 PM
I have mixed feelings about this issue. I had my shots for polio when I was young and for other diseases as well.

There are some things that would have just about wiped out humanity but for the vacinations.

But I have seen the other side of the coin as well.

In Brisbane there is a very well know rugby league football coach who has a son that had his vacinations when young and today he is not much better than a vegetable.

I know that does not happen to everyone. They were on TV a few years ago showing the father with his son on his shoulders at 25 years of age. Very sad to see as his story was very moving. The father (coach) had come from nothing and had promised his mother hen would not drink/smoke/gamble. He is well known now and still does not do any of those things.

Clive

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Michelle on November 08, 2005, 04:41:00 AM
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/08/national/08polio.html?th&emc=th
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 8, 2005
5 Cases of Polio in Amish Group Raise New Fears
By GARDINER HARRIS
LONG PRAIRIE, Minn. - Polio was pronounced dead in the Western Hemisphere years ago, after one of the most successful public health campaigns in history. But now it is stealing through a tiny Amish community here in central Minnesota, spreading from an 8-month-old girl to four children on two neighboring farms.

So far, no one has been crippled by the disease; only 1 in 200 cases of polio results in paralysis. But worried public health officials say it may be only a matter of time.

The story of how polio came to this dairy farming community of 24 families, with 19th-century ways that include a deep-rooted suspicion of vaccination, is both a medical whodunit and a cautionary tale, suggesting that eradicating polio may prove far harder than anyone thought, even in the developed world.

No one expects that the United States will be visited by the kind of outbreaks that recently flared up in Africa and Asia, frustrating the longstanding goal of eliminating polio for good by the end of this year. But the Long Prairie cases highlight a weakness in the worldwide campaign.

The 8-month-old Amish girl, whose name has been withheld by health officials, has an immune deficiency that makes her unable to rid her body of the virus.

How she contracted the virus remains a mystery. She may have been infected in a hospital by another immune-deficient patient who nursed it for years. A doctor or nurse may have served as a go-between. Or there may have been a chain of carriers in the Amish community. The virus is spread from stool to mouth, a surprisingly efficient form of transmission.

Regardless, the girl is now a wellspring for polio, a modern-day Typhoid Mary who can pass it along to others. Anyone who has not been vaccinated is vulnerable. And though vaccination rates in the United States are at historic highs, an increasing number of parents are resisting inoculations for their children, fearing that they may cause disorders like autism, a connection scientists have almost universally discounted.

So health authorities are keeping a watchful eye on the girl and her neighbors.

"If that child is a message in a bottle," said Bruce Aylward, coordinator of the global polio eradication initiative at the World Health Organization, "it has just washed up on shore."

The 24 families moved to this windswept stretch of prairie from Wisconsin about three years ago. An Amish community generally includes only as many families as can fit into one house for church services, and each community must come to a consensus on what to accept from modernity.

This one allows windshields for its horse buggies, kitchen cupboards that are attached to walls and some upholstered furniture - all somewhat unusual for the Amish, said Dr. Susan Rutten, a physician from nearby Sauk Centre who makes house calls in four Amish communities. Men can wear dark green shirts, not just navy blue and black.

The farms could have come straight out of children's books. There are ducks and chickens, cattle and hogs. Fence posts are columns of stones enclosed by wire mesh. Lacking electricity, the farms are remarkably quiet. At one, the children rarely yelled or even spoke in the presence of a stranger. The air smelled of turned earth, manure and wood smoke.

The threat of polio seemed remote here - until this summer. That was when the baby was hospitalized with an immune-system disorder.

As her care became increasingly complex, she was shuttled through four hospitals. At the third, she developed diarrhea. On Aug. 27, doctors sent a stool sample to the hospital's laboratory, which determined that the girl had an intestinal virus. In many states, nothing more would have been done.

But in Minnesota, hospitals send such samples to a sophisticated state laboratory. On Sept. 29, the tests matured. A laboratory supervisor called Dr. Harry Hull, the state epidemiologist, to say they had isolated a polio virus.

Dr. Hull was stunned. "I said, 'You have made a mistake,' " he recalled.

Tall and thin, with glasses and bushy eyebrows, Dr. Hull is one of the world's foremost polio experts. Before coming to Minnesota, he worked for 10 years in the World Health Organization's global polio eradication effort. In an interview, he scrawled circles and arrows on a sheet of paper as he described the search for the virus.

The state laboratory redid the tests. The results were identical. Then it sequenced the virus's genomic code. A supervisor plugged the code into a national genomic database, comparing it with the genes of a polio virus.

"Bingo," said Dr. Norman Crouch, the laboratory's director. "It was a 98 percent match. We knew we had nailed it."

The Minnesota laboratory sent the sample to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, which confirmed the results. Officials were immediately concerned about where the virus originated and where it might have spread.

Confirming the presence of polio in a city with even one infected person is not impossible, said Dr. Mark D. Sobsey, a professor of environmental microbiology at the University of North Carolina. The stool of an infected person contains so many viral particles that tests at a sewage treatment plant can reveal it. Such tests helped track outbreaks in the Gaza Strip and Haiti in recent years.

Since many Amish use outhouses, however, state officials geared up to go door to door. They unearthed a public health form explaining how to collect stool samples. The form had pictures of a flush toilet and a garbage can with a plastic liner - things foreign to many Amish communities. Officials changed the form.

Gary Wax, an epidemiologist for the Minnesota Department of Health, contacted the leader of the Amish community where the child lives and asked for his permission to seek stool samples from those in his community. The leader gave his blessing, Mr. Wax said.

"We really tried to do it in a respectful way rather than just barge right in there," Mr. Wax said.

Since the Amish have no phones, he could not call for appointments. He and his colleagues knocked on doors. They had been warned against speaking directly to Amish women without their husbands present, Mr. Wax said, and the men were "running all over the place, helping each other with harvesting and construction." So if the man was not at home, they left.

"We came back many times to some places," Mr. Wax said. After weeks of effort, just 5 of 24 families in the community agreed to cooperate. Three of the five, including the family of the 8-month-old, proved to have infected children.

"I would be surprised if we don't get a paralytic case someplace," Dr. Hull said.

In a neighboring community, a 38-year-old farmer who is also a sawyer agreed to speak with a reporter only if his name would not be used, saying Amish people avoided calling attention to themselves.

The farmer, who has seven children, explained that nothing in Amish law forbade vaccinations, but that many Amish believed that vaccines weakened the immune system. He added that as a result of the infections, he planned to have his children vaccinated against polio, measles, mumps and rubella, and that most of the families in his community were doing the same. "We'll get vaccinated if we feel it's necessary," he said. "But our definition of necessary may be very different from yours."

A further challenge for public health officials is that their surveillance efforts cannot be confined to a few remote farming communities.

"My mental image of the Amish was that they don't travel at all because they don't drive cars," Dr. Hull said. "That's not true."

The Amish commonly take buses and trains, and occasionally even planes. Families from the baby girl's community recently attended a wedding in Ontario, Canada, that health officials said drew more than 1,000 guests. Some have visited Wisconsin in recent weeks.

Polio experts have long feared that an immune-deficient person could cause an outbreak of paralytic polio. That is a particular hazard in poorer countries.

In much of the developing world, children are given an oral vaccine made of a live, nonparalytic polio virus. Two drops confer partial immunity, making mass vaccination campaigns achievable in poor countries. To become fully immunized, a child must be vaccinated several times. The vaccine causes an infection that usually lasts a few weeks. The infection can spread to others and immunize them, too.

But if the virus spreads too far among previously unvaccinated people, its genes will change and the virus will regain its ability to cripple and kill. Such a virus caused an outbreak of paralytic polio in Haiti and the Dominican Republic in 2000 and 2001, crippling 21. (The outbreaks in Africa and Asia began after many Nigerians refused vaccinations in 2003, suspecting they were a Western plot to sterilize Muslim girls.)

The United States and much of the developed world used live-virus vaccinations for decades, but switched in recent years to a dead virus that is injected. The dead virus does not cause an infection or paralysis.

In people with poor immune systems like the 8-month-old Amish child, the live polio vaccine can change to a paralytic form without being passed to anyone else, since such people can nurse a mutating virus for years.

In most of the world, such patients die quickly because of poor medical care. In the West, they can live for years, with a few of them shedding polio viruses all the while. Among experts, these patients are called "chronic excreters." That such a polio wellspring would be born among a largely unvaccinated population like the Amish, Dr. Hull said, was a "random unlucky event."

"It's a model of what might happen if we stop vaccinating too soon," he said.

The Amish girl remains hospitalized in strict isolation. Health officials will not say where. And they are still trying to figure out where she contracted the virus.

Genetic testing showed that the virus was almost identical to that of the oral polio vaccine given in much of the rest of the world but not in the United States. The slight changes to the virus from that of the vaccine suggested that it had been circulating for at least two years. The girl has never traveled abroad.

A fear is that such a person could unwittingly incubate a polio infection for a decade or more and then accidentally reintroduce it - years after experts have declared it eliminated from the world and vaccinations have stopped.

That prospect has long seemed remote, because such children are so rare, Dr. Aylward of the World Health Organization said. But an outbreak of paralytic disease in Minnesota would prove that it was more likely than many had believed, and it would demonstrate that work now under way to better understand the risks posed by chronic excreters would have to be intensified.

"Or we may need to revisit the strategy and time frame for stopping the use of the oral polio vaccine," Dr. Aylward said. "It's a tiny chance, but it's something we need to keep an eye on."

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Bill Wennell on November 08, 2005, 06:52:00 AM
I can understand why this can be a difficult issue with most people as it is something that is generally misunderstood. The history of vaccinations as shown that the disease has usually been on the decrease BEFORE the vaccinations begin yet we are lead to believe, by our government, that the decrease is BECAUSE of the vaccine. This generally is untrue.

Case in point is the bubonic plague which killed millions in Europe. Where did it come from and where did it go? Most people might be surprised to know that it is still considered to be endemic (naturally occurring) around Louisiana even today. Diseases have always come and gone, some linger for a while. This is natural (ie God's mercy). The belief that we need mans intervention in the area of illness is a tragedy. Illness has been, is, and will always be a natural consequence of what we do! Garbage does not create flies, it only attracts them. Likewise, we attract disease through unhealthful lifestyles, either by unclean living, unnatural eating, or failure to take proper care of ourselves. Therefore the belief that vaccines are essential, or at least a lesser evil, have no foundation on Bible principles.

Now when we look at how vaccines are created we get a world of evil. Mercury, animal cells, harmful or harsh chemicals; yet we say this is a necessary evil? Even that bad vaccines can be good? What esoteric knowledge is this based on? A lot of confidence in man's ability, but how much on God's? With a big government push on possible future vaccines (already happening in the Armed Services) one would wonder whether there is any connection between this idealogy and the government push for Sunday Laws!

There is a simple quote that covers this subject, "Drugs NEVER cure". While there has been a big push, even within the denomination, for a redefining of the word "drug" to only mean harsh chemicals used in the time of Ellen White, but not current medications of today, I will leave that to each persons determination. But I would take a good hard look at the facts.

Bill
biblicaltruths2000@yahoo.com

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Sherwin on November 08, 2005, 01:59:00 PM
While Mrs. White did say that drugs never cure, she did not say they should never be used as some will have us believe. She said rarely should they be used. Vaccinations are, IMO, in the rarely used catagory. However as with the Amish case, a rarely used drug could have prevented polio among their community and the possibility of further spread.

RichardS

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: WendyForsyth on November 08, 2005, 04:31:00 PM
I believe she chastised someone for not using the medical knowledge at hand for their child, allowing their child to die (was it quinine?), in the name of her words speaking against drug use.

I think that especially in the case of polio and a similar disease in severity, smallpox, we would be foolish and she would agree we would be foolish to not use the vaccines. Especially now that there are killed vaccines for polio.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Sherwin on November 08, 2005, 05:49:00 PM
I think Mrs. White was a very practical person. She would have seen the benefit of certain modern drugs. In fact she was known to use coffee as medicine. As far as I know anti-biotic drugs do heal, and the have saved millions of lives. When you look at many modern drugs I have no doubt that God guided the hands of those who invented them. They go against everything Satan stands for.

Wendy I do believe it was quinine and the malady was malaria that was not treated.

RichardS

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on May 29, 2006, 10:52:00 AM
The measles virus has been found in the guts of children with a form of autism, renewing fears over the safety of the measles, mumps and rubella triple vaccine. American researchers have revealed that 85 per cent of samples taken from autistic children with bowel disorders contain the virus. Telegraph
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Sherwin on May 29, 2006, 11:31:00 AM
There is no doubt that with vaccines there are some negetive side effects (risks). The question that has to be asked is, is the risk worse than the benefit?

Brother Sherwin

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on May 30, 2006, 08:40:00 AM
A better question is who decides if your child is going take the risk? When those who refuse to change their lifestyle in order to protect their health, ought they be the ones to decide that your child will take such a risk? In other words, the world which rejects the light from heaven will attempt to force the conscience of those who wish to walk in the light that God has given when they theselves cause their own health to suffer.

When simple truth is rejected and the government refuses to test cows for BSE and says that it is safe to eat them, then why would you want them to decide what is safe? The next question comes as to the opinion of those in the church who reject the light sent through a prophet regarding the dangers of eating animal products. If this is not accepted then why would one believe there is danger in injecting animal products straight into the blood?

Brother Sherwin, I understand that there has always been a risk from vaccines. But, the risk has increased many fold since animals have become much more diseased when the vaccines are made from or with the use of animal products. Can you agree with this?

If problems such as autism are related to vaccines then do you want to vaccinate your child?

The system is broken. Over twenty years ago my children were vaccinated with a bad batch of vaccine. It was very sad. The drug company knew it was bad quite some time before my children were vaccinated. There was no mandatory recall or proceedure to get the vaccine back. My children were very sick. This is the world. This is where many in our church are wiling to place their faith rather than in God and His ways.

When we read our Bibles we read that ten thousand shall fall at thy side. At times I think we forget we have a God that loves us and is our protection. Yes, He has given us a set of laws that we are to follow and then He will help us. But, it is not the world system  of health that we are to follow. It is His set of laws. These are not accepted within the "culture" of Seventh-day Adventism. Go to many of our hospitals and you will see outright rejection of the light we have been given. They have patterned after the world. It is the result of the Laodicean condition.

This is a very serious subject and one in the end will require faith in God and His counsels that are rejected by the world.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Sherwin on May 30, 2006, 07:21:00 PM
If because a person does not get a vaccine they might put others at risk. Is this OK as well? I don't have the answers. I personally don't know of anyone who was ever harmed by vaccines, well other than those on here. I do know that I'm thankful that my children never got mumps and measles like I had as a child. On the other hand I suffered no long term effects from those childhood illnesses. My guess is there are no good answers to these things. I do think that if a person feels it is sinful to get a vaccine then they should not be forced to, as the Amish. And likely they will be protected by the simple reason that others did get the vaccine and those illnesses can not get a foothold in the general population.

Brother Sherwin

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on May 30, 2006, 08:50:00 PM
"If because a person does not get a vaccine they might put others at risk."  I appreciate that. But, as I asked before, who are you going to trust? The ones who reject the light from heaven? The ones who refuse to allow the testing of cattle for mad cow disease? The ones who tell us we need to eat meat, eggs, and milk?

When people are allowed into the U.S. without following the laws, it puts us all at risk from many quite serious diseases. So, is this important? A lot of disease is imported in the U.S. from third world countries. One of the quite serious problems is TB. It comes in from poor countries with immigrants. When there is no border control  for economic and political reasons we endanger our population. So, now do we force the population to be vaccinated? This is the thinking of the "bright ones" in positions of authority.

I think the argument that I have made is that it is foolish to inject animal products directly into the bloodstream. It is not health protecting, but will be a means of transmitting disease. We have fresh evidence of this with the recall of the flu vaccine because of the infectious nature of the product. It was made with animal products.

Seems we may trust more in modern science than we do in the light God has so graciously sent to the world through us. When the truth is brought to light regarding the cause of many diseases we then will be ashamed we did not help more in sharing the truth that we had been given as a people. Children are dying now because their parents thought they needed to drink milk to be healthy. What do you say to the mother who did not know, but we did know? One day we will see.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Michelle on May 30, 2006, 11:33:00 PM
There are those who are affected by the mercury in vaccines--some are very sensitive to this and get heavy metal poisoning (which, incidentally, is nearly identical to autism--my personal feeling based on some research and anecdotal evidence is that "autism" related to vaccines is really heavy metal poisoning, and autism related to genetics is different, though with very similar symptoms).  Does this mean none should get the vaccines?  I don't make this answer for anyone else, but for me, I've vaccinated my kids.  I knew it was likely we'd live abroad and I didn't want them to be unfairly compromised.  Do I vaccinate for flu?  Not generally.  Would I vaccinate for TB if there were such a vaccination?  Probably, if I were living in mainland China--I've known people with TB in mainland China, and I think it would be the prudent thing to do.  Would I vaccinate for H5N1?  No.  If that's going to start transmission from human to human, I think it will burn itself out rather rapidly (like Ebola does, or like the flu 100 years ago).  

As RichardS pointed out, polio has been nearly eradicated (though there have been problems in India getting it totally gone).  Would we wish polio on our children?  I wouldn't!

RichardM had mumps and measles as a child and suffered no ill consequences.  Was this the norm?  Did children die from these illnesses?  (I truly don't know much about them, as I've grown up in the era of the MMR.)

As one of my kids' doctors told me, when we compare the results of the disease with the results of the vaccines, we would choose the vaccines.  But we don't see the results of the diseases anymore, so all we see are the results of the vaccines.  What is an acceptable risk when we know the negatives very well becomes, in some people's minds, an unacceptable risk when the alternative is not readily apparant.

M

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on July 14, 2008, 08:20:38 AM
There are those who wish to force immunization of little girls with the HPV vaccine. They say it is safe.  Who shall we trust? HPV is a sexually transmitted disease that can cause cancer. 

In my research, I found this at the FDA site from Oct. 07:


Gardasil Adverse Events Include Deaths, Seizures, Judicial Watch Says

There have been 3,461 reports of adverse events, including a maximum of 11 deaths, in patients receiving Merck’s cervical cancer vaccine Gardasil, public interest group Judicial Watch said.

Since May, the group has found documents detailing 1,824 reports of adverse reactions to Gardasil (quadrivalent human papillomavirus [Types 6, 11, 16, 18] recombinant vaccine), including eight deaths. Before May, Judicial Watch had obtained 1,637 adverse event reports. The group received the data from the FDA through a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request.

Of the 1,824 adverse events reported between May 10 and Sept. 7, 347 were serious reactions including paralysis, Bell’s palsy, Guillain-Barre syndrome and seizures, according to the group.

Thirty-three out of 77 pregnant women who received the vaccine experienced side effects, including spontaneous abortion and fetal abnormalities, Judicial Watch added.

“In light of this information, it is disturbing that state and local governments might mandate in any way this vaccine for young girls,” Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said.  source (http://www.fdanews.com/newsletter/article?articleId=99624&issueId=10844)

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Mimi on July 14, 2008, 08:30:08 AM
The television ad campaigns ("One Less") for this vaccine have been pulled. 
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on July 14, 2008, 09:35:05 AM
The Australian Vaccination Network (AVN), a national non-profit health lobby group which which has received approval from ADRAC (the Adverse Drug Reactions Advisory Committee) to report vaccine reactions on behalf of individuals, is not surprised at the release of this information. Meryl Dorey, National President of the AVN, has said for the last 12 months that from the experience of the AVN, Gardasil is the most dangerous vaccine released to date. "We have received more reaction reports from Gardasil than from any other vaccine over the very short space of time since it was released.".

According to information obtained by Channel 7 under a Freedom of Information claim, 681 reactions to Gardasil were reported to ADRAC as of January 30, 2008. Of these reported reactions, more than one-third had not yet recovered. (Please see summary table below - full information available by contacting the AVN) source (http://www.consumercide.com/blog/index.php?title=avn_press_release_on_australian_gardasil&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1)
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on July 14, 2008, 09:37:09 AM
In Australia and the US, there is talk about forcing the vaccination of both girls and boys. 
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Mimi on July 14, 2008, 09:40:58 AM
CNN had a story last week of these vaccines and the horrible results with them. I don't see how they could make them mandatory with research results such as these. My step-daughter has said she will leave our state if it is made mandatory here - she is an RN and knows about this vaccine. 
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Brian M on July 14, 2008, 02:50:07 PM
A Seventh-day Adventist pastor on another forum recently called anyone who would not immunize their children "members of the flat earth society". He said that it was not only damaging to the cause of present truth to advocate such a position, but socially irresponsible as well.

I asked him what he thought about the implications of using unclean animals in the manufacture of immunizations and other medications, in addition to the other dangerous elements. His response was that the Biblical guidelines were intended for food, not the manufacture of medicines and vaccines.

Our oldest children were vaccinated partially, our youngest not at all. I wish I had know more before we vaccinated the older ones.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Mimi on November 03, 2008, 06:56:02 AM
HUMAN PAPILLOMA VIRUS VACCINE FRAUD

By Dr. James Howenstine, MD.
November 3, 2008

NewsWithViews.com

For several years the pharmaceutical firm has made aggressive efforts to market the Gardasil human papilloma virus vaccine as a prevention for cervical cancer. The governor of the state of Texas made the administration of this vaccine to young girls mandatory.

What is the truth about this vaccine?

Natural News reporter Mike Adams has uncovered some interesting facts about this vaccine. The FDA has been aware since 2003 that Human Papillloma Virus [1] does not cause cervical cancer. The Gardasil vaccine is unable to eradicate HPV virus from women who have been exposed to HPV(nearly all sexually active women). This makes vaccinating all young women in Texas against HPV virus a very questionable decision. Source (http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james170.htm)
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on November 03, 2008, 08:54:08 AM
I am not sure about the vaccine, but HPV appears to cause cancer. It is true that the immune system can protect against cancer, but this does not change the fact that a virus can cause cancer. I believe HPV does indeed cause cancer. The cure is not a vaccine, but protection from the virus and a healthy lifestyle that protects against cancer.

It is true that the FDA has a lot of problems, but it is quite dangerous to allow people to think that HPV does not cause cancer. Some HPV strains may not, but the evidence does show that there are some strains of HPV that do cause cancer. It is important that women who have been diagnosed follow through with treatment. Surgical procedures can help deal with the disease as can a healthy lifestyle.

An ounce of prevention is worth a thousand pounds of cure. Remain pure until marriage. This is the best way to avoid cervical cancer. This STD causes cancer. Prevent it and tell the young ones that sexual immorality can cause cancer. They are ignorant of this fact.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Brian M on November 03, 2008, 09:09:51 AM
CDC reports that Gardasil is "safe". I can't find where I read what there definition of "safe" was, but it was not something I would consider safe. You can find more information about Gardasil and its side-effects, which include death, miscarriage and pancreatitis  Here  (http://naturalnews.com/News_000391_Gardasil_vaccines_the_CDC.html)
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Brian M on November 03, 2008, 09:21:31 AM
An ounce of prevention is worth a thousand pounds of cure. Remain pure until marriage. This is the best way to avoid cervical cancer. This STD causes cancer. Prevent it and tell the young ones that sexual immorality can cause cancer. They are ignorant of this fact.

This is so true. I never got a chance to check the facts on this, so if anyone has more information I'd love to have it. But my wife and I went to a marriage seminar years ago. Part of the program, which thankfully did not apply to us, was about healing from an affair. The only part that caught my attention was the talk of STD's etc, because with children I'd like to be up on some of these things. They claimed, and I'm inclined to believe it, that the way we were created...the body adjusts to our spouse...chemically. When there are multiple partners, this causes chemical problems and can introduce STD's without either partner having had them previously, at least some strains. This would be a strong medical argument for abstinence, though the primary ones I will use (and have used) with my children are the Spiritual and Emotional elements. Has anyone else ever heard this?
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on November 03, 2008, 08:02:50 PM
From the National Cancer Institute

What is the association between HPV infection and cancer?

Persistent HPV infections are now recognized as the major cause of cervical cancer. In 2007, it was estimated that 11,000 women in the United States would be diagnosed with this type of cancer and nearly 4,000 would die from it. Cervical cancer strikes nearly half a million women each year worldwide, claiming a quarter of a million lives. Studies also suggest that HPVs may play a role in some cancers of the anus, vulva, vagina, and penile cancer (cancer of the penis) (2).

Studies have also found that oral HPV infection is a strong risk factor for oropharyngeal cancer (cancer that forms in tissues of the oropharynx, which is the middle part of the throat and includes the soft palate, the base of the tongue, and the tonsils) (2, 3). Researchers found that an oral HPV infection and past HPV exposure increase the risk of oropharyngeal squamous cell cancer, regardless of tobacco and alcohol use, two other important risk factors for this disease. However, combining HPV exposure and heavy tobacco and alcohol use did not have an additive effect (3).


Are there specific types of HPV that are associated with cancer?


Some types of HPV are referred to as “low-risk” viruses because they rarely cause lesions that develop into cancer. HPV types that are more likely to lead to the development of cancer are referred to as “high-risk.” Both high-risk and low-risk types of HPV can cause the growth of abnormal cells, but only the high-risk types of HPV lead to cancer. Sexually transmitted, high-risk HPVs include types 16, 18, 31, 33, 35, 39, 45, 51, 52, 56, 58, 59, 66, 68, and 73 (4). These high-risk types of HPV cause growths on the cervix that are usually flat and nearly invisible, as compared with the external warts caused by low-risk types HPV–6 and HPV–11. HPV types 16 and 18 together cause about 70 percent of cervical cancers (4, 5). It is important to note, however, that the great majority of high-risk HPV infections go away on their own and do not cause cancer (5).


What are the risk factors for HPV infection and cervical cancer?


Having many sexual partners is a risk factor for HPV infection. Although most HPV infections go away on their own without causing any type of abnormality, infection with high-risk HPV types increases the chance that mild abnormalities will develop and progress to more severe abnormalities or cervical cancer. However, even among the women who do develop abnormal cell changes with high-risk types of HPV, only a small percentage would develop cervical cancer if the abnormal cells were not removed. As a general rule, the more severe the abnormal cell change, the greater the risk of cancer. Studies suggest that whether a woman develops cervical cancer depends on a variety of factors acting together with high-risk HPVs. The factors that may increase the risk of cervical cancer in women with HPV infection include smoking and having many children (5).


Ignorance of this relationship will cause many to contact cancer. We need to teach this in our schools, families, and churches. Few realize that STDs can cause cancer.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Mimi on February 06, 2009, 04:32:44 PM

Quote
New Worries About Gardasil Safety
CBS Evening News: Vaccine-Safety Group Study Shows Higher Instance Of Medical Side-Effects Than Another Vaccine

WASHINGTON, Feb. 6, 2009 | by Sharyl Attkisson


(CBS) There are new concerns about Gardasil, the vaccine that prevents a virus that caused cervical cancer. It's approved for girls as young as nine. And five million have received it since it was approved two years ago. The FDA and its maker insist it's safe. But CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson has exclusive information on some very serious side effects.

Gabby Swank was a straight-A student and cheerleader.

But that was before she became very ill following the standard dose of three Gardasil vaccinations, Attkisson reports.

You know the commercial. It showed teenage girls saying "I want to be one less" who gets the HPV virus, which is linked to cervical cancer.

"It was like a big hype among my friends, because we're like, 'we're gonna get it' because we felt almost pressured by the commercials," Gabby said.

Gabby got sicker after each shot, progressing to seizures, strokes and heart problems. It was her neurologist who suspected Gardasil was to blame.

"I think there are too many people having serious long-term side-effects," said neurologist Dr. Dwight Lindholm.

Last fall, the government and vaccine maker Merck concluded there's no link between Gardasil and serious adverse events like Gabby's. But a new analysis calls that finding into question.

The National Vaccine Information Center, a private vaccine-safety group, compared Gardasil adverse events to another vaccine, one also given to young people, but for meningitis. Gardasil had three times the number of Emergency Room visits - more than 5,000. Reports of side effects were up to 30 times higher with Gardasil.

    Read the analysis by the National Vaccine Information Center.

"If I'd have known, we never would have gotten the shot," said Emily Tarsell, whose daughter, Chris, died three weeks after her third Gardasil shot. She was one of the 29 fatalities reported in two years. "And she'd be here to hug."

Barbara Loe Fisher, co-founder of the NVIC, said: "Now we know from this report that there are more reactions and deaths associated with Gardasil than with another vaccine given in the same age group. It's irresponsible not to take action."

Merck, the FDA and CDC question the value of the new analysis, say they continue to review the data, Gardasil remains safe and effective, and its benefits outweigh the risks.

Those who believe the vaccine hurt them aren't convinced. Gabby isn't cheering anymore and is too sick to even attend school.

"I struggle with guilt a lot, because I made the choice to get the shot for her," said Gabby's mom, Shannon Swank.

Meantime, Merck has asked the FDA to approve it for boys, who can pass on the cancer causing virus to girls, meaning the number of people getting Gardasil may double.

Read Merck's statement http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/06/eveningnews/main4781658.shtml
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on February 08, 2009, 09:56:37 PM
The government and the drug companies cannot be trusted. And those who want to force compliance are criminal.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Lewis on February 11, 2009, 10:20:37 AM
NY parents grilled in 'religious sincerity test'

But Palma says she and her husband were grilled for two hours by the school's attorney, David Cohen. She refers to the session as a "sincerity interview." Following is an excerpt from that meeting:................................

Rita says the attorney concluded that her beliefs were not "sincere" enough and decided to deny her vaccine waiver. She is now taking her fight to the New York State Capitol.
 
Source (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=415952)
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Mimi on February 11, 2009, 06:32:46 PM
This situation reminds me of what we will have to face in the future. There is an older sermon on the subject of "convictions vs. preferences" by Vern Schaffer. It is an excellent resource (warning) of these very things.

He speaks of the Supreme Court of the US making huge distinctions between what someone is convicted of based upon strong religious beliefs and what someone holds as a preference - whether or not they feel strongly about it. Our convictions must be thoroughly proved in any situation but especially in a court of law when we will be called to give a reason for our faith. We need to know why we believe as we do - and further, to show by our daily living that it is lived out in such a way to prove it is a moral conviction. The courts will not honor something we simply prefer.

Schaffer gives very detailed examples of each and notes the Supreme Court created a "test" to determine upon what a plaintiff's case is based.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on September 13, 2009, 05:49:21 PM
Lewis posted this information in the Social Hall, but the author Russell Blaylock is a board certified Neuro-surgeon, so i thought it important that we read this here in the Immunization thread. This is only a portion of the article. It would be good to read all of it.

Naturally, vaccine manufacturers have been in a competitive battle to produce the first vaccine (swine flu). The main contenders have been Baxter Pharmaceuticals and Novartis Pharmaceuticals, the latter of which recently acquired the scandal-ridden Chiron vaccine company. Both of these companies have had agreements with the World Health Organization to produce a pandemic vaccine.

The Baxter vaccine, called Celvapan, has had fast track approval. It uses a new vero cell technology, which utilizes cultured cells from the African green monkey. This same animal tissue transmits a number of vaccine-contaminating viruses, including the HIV virus.

The Baxter company has been associated with two deadly scandals. The first event occurred in 2006 when hemophiliac components were contaminated with HIV virus and injected in tens of thousands of people, including thousands of children. Baxter continued to release the HIV contaminated vaccine even after the contamination was known.

The second event occurred recently when it was discovered that Baxter had released a seasonal flu vaccine containing the bird flu virus, which would have produced a real world pandemic, to 18 countries. Fortunately, astute lab workers in the Czech Republic discovered the deadly combination and blew the whistle before a worldwide disaster was unleashed.

Despite these two deadly events, WHO maintains an agreement with Baxter Pharmaceuticals to produce the world’s pandemic vaccine.

Novartis, the second contender, also has an agreement with WHO for a pandemic vaccine. Novartis appears to have won the contract, since their vaccine is near completion. What is terrifying is that these pandemic vaccines contain ingredients, called immune adjuvants that a number of studies have shown cause devastating autoimmune disorders, including rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis and lupus.

Animal studies using this adjuvant have found them to be deadly. A study using 14 guinea pigs found that when they were injected with the special adjuvant, only one animal survived. A repeat of the study found the same deadly outcome.

So, what is this deadly ingredient? It is called squalene, a type of oil. The Chiron company, maker of the deadly anthrax vaccine, makes an adjuvant called MF-59 which contains an ingredient of serious concern--squalene. A number of studies have shown that squalene can trigger all of the above-mentioned autoimmune diseases when injected.

The MF-59 adjuvant has been used in several vaccines. These vaccines, including tetanus and diphtheria, are the same vaccines frequently associated with adverse reactions.

I reviewed a number of studies on this adjuvant and found something quite interesting. Several studies done on human test subjects found MF-59 to be a very safe immune adjuvant. But when I checked to see who did these studies, I found—to no surprise—that they were done by the Novartis Pharmaceutical Company and Chiron Pharmaceutical Company, which have merged. They were all published in “prestigious” medical journals. Also, to no surprise, a great number of studies done by independent laboratories and research institutions all found a strong link between MF-59 and autoimmune diseases.

Squalene in vaccines has been strongly linked to the Gulf War Syndrome. On August 1991, Anthony Principi, Secretary of Veterans Affairs admitted that soldiers vaccinated with the anthrax vaccine from 1990 to 1991 had an increased risk of 200 percent in developing the deadly disease amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), also called Lou Gehrig’s disease. The soldiers also suffered from a number of debilitating and life-shortening diseases, such as polyarteritis nodosa, multiple sclerosis (MS), lupus, transverse myelitis (a neurological disorder caused by inflammation of the spinal cord), endocarditis (inflammation of the heart’s inner lining), optic neuritis with blindness and glomerulonephritis (a type of kidney disease).

Because squalene, the main ingredient in MF-59, can induce hyperimmune responses and induce autoimmunity, a real danger exists for prolonged activation of the brain’s immune cells, the microglia. This type of prolonged activation has been strongly associated with such diseases as multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, ALS and possibly vaccine-related encephalitis. It has been shown that activation of the systemic immune system, as occurs with vaccination, rapidly activates the brain’s microglia at the same time, and this brain inflammation can persist for long periods.

What most people do not know, even the doctors who recommend the vaccines, is that most studies by pharmaceutical companies observe the patients for only one to two weeks following vaccination—these types of reactions may take months or even years to manifest.   source (http://www.newsmax.com/health/vaccine_swine_flu/2009/07/07/232717.html)

http://www.russellblaylockmd.com/

Green monkeys?  Whoever thinks that it is just fine to put this into one's blood stream is not very smart. Dr. Blaylock is trying hard to help us understand the dangers and he has not the light we have.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: stephen on September 18, 2009, 08:29:44 AM
Our General Conference Health Ministries Department (under the direction of Handysides and Landless) is no different than the US Government CDC or the world's WHO. 


http://www.health20-20.org/article.php?id=194














Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Mimi on September 18, 2009, 09:49:31 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Larry Lyons on September 18, 2009, 10:47:06 AM
I suspect they are embarrassed about the Adventist health message. After Lorraine Day went public with her use of Adventist health principles to successfully treat her own cancer, the diriector of Adventist health wrote that "any treatment of cancer that is outside of the methods of mainstream medical practice is quackery." Now Loma Linda has millions, probably even hundreds of millions of dollars invested in technology to treat cancer with proton radiation etc. Is there a conflict of interest between the Adventist medical establishment and the health message as given to EGW?
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on September 18, 2009, 02:49:07 PM
We have private forums to discuss the "dirty laundry" in the church, but in this case, we discuss the matter in this open forum. Why?  For ten years we have been educating in the area of health. Or better yet, health reform. We do this in an open forum because as a people God has given us great light and He expects us to share that light with the world. There are some not of our faith who read in this forum. When what we have been teaching is contradicted by Brothers Handysides and Landless, we must point out their error. They are going contrary to the light we have been given. And, it is hurting our effort to educate not only our people, but those not of our faith. And, when some of our people find themselves in a difficult place because they refuse to inject African Green Monkey into their children based upon religious belief,  we have the leaders of our Health Ministries saying we do not as a people teach such things. :(

This is a most serious offense by these two men. I have contacted the department, but have not been able to talk with either of them. I did find out enough to know that they are steeped in worldly science just as are many steeped in evolution. And, even then, as with evolution, there is much scientific evidence to show them that their position is wrong. That animal products are putting people at great risk for disease is not a theory any longer. Yet, they ignore the counsel we have been given over a hundred years ago that "soon" we would have to cease eating all animal products because of the increase in diseases in animals.

In order to protect our rights to refuse immunization, we must work towards reform in the church.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Larry Lyons on September 30, 2009, 09:12:29 PM
This comes under the category of "nothing new under the sun." It is an excerpt from a just released book by a 76 year old Native American woman who was trained from childhood to be a certain kind of medicine woman in the tradition of the Karuk tribe of Northern California.

   "In 1942 there was a whooping cough epidemic and they gave us shots. Of course there was the fear that the Japanese were using germ warfare against us, and they had found some of the baloon bombs up in the mountains around here that had floated across the Pacific on the jet stream, so the government sent more whooping cough shots for us to take. I guess the vaccine had gotten warm or old or something, and we all got great big boils on our arms where they gave us the shot. Big blue boils. Big, the size of ping pong balls, and everybody got sick and headachy, the whole school. Everyone who got a shot got sick. Most of the boils broke and children got a big ugly scar on their arms. I was one of the unlucky ones, mine did not break and I got pancreatitis and was sick for three weeks."

(Medicine Trails--A Life in Many Worlds, Mavis McCovey, p 121)

Mavis has been attending our church fairly regularly for two or three years. She is a retired nurse, quiet, but friendly and personable. The book is her auto biography which also describes her training as a medicine woman and the responsibilities and "powers" that come with that training. It gives insights into the spiritual aspect of Indian life that is usually kept very quiet. Their religious tradition is steeped in spiritualism and the occult. The book contains information about Indian culture that explains why Christian missionarys have had such little impact on the Native Americans of this area. We are praying that Mavis will be convicted by the Holy Spirit to accept Jesus as her savior.

Two of the men in our church have set up a sattelite dish so she can receive 3abn etc. Thay get a strong signal and it starts to work but then the screen goes blank. I seriously think it could be demons trying to prevent her from having it. That was last week. I haven't heard yet this week if they have solved the problem.

Sorry for the divergence from topic. Please pray for this lady. She is a woman with influence and respect among the Indians up here. I think she is probably related to half of them. Her conversion could bring in others.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on October 03, 2009, 02:45:01 PM
An unpublished Canadian study that suggests seasonal flu shots raise a person's risk of catching swine flu is raising concern abroad and triggering changes to flu vaccine program schedules at home.  source (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/09/24/11097656-cp.html)

I heard this on the radio last week and thought it interesting. Many are biased one way or the other, so it may be hard to get to the bottom of it. Apparently someone has been going through the records and found that those who received the seasonal flu shots in Canada got the flu more often than those who did not. So, many of the Canadian provinces are taking a hard look at the present push to immunize against both the seasonal and swine flu.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Mimi on October 03, 2009, 02:58:26 PM
That Canada's reasoning could filter down to us is something only to be hoped for!
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on October 04, 2009, 06:25:57 AM
Here is something of interest posted a few years ago in the Signs Forum. Closer Than You Think (http://208.109.58.155/smf/index.php?topic=6734.msg71213#msg71213).

Read the whole article that is linked in the first post. It deals with federal pandemic plans that have been put in place and warnings to be prepared. Senator Reid is seeking to eliminate comprehensive protections for pharmaceutical manufacturers who escape liability even if their products harm patients. Reid warned today that a measure "inserted into legislation in the dead of night without any debate last December ... gives unprecedented and sweeping liability protections to the pharmaceutical industry even when Americans are harmed by their medicines.....The liability provisions do not provide for compensation to victims who are injured and shield manufacturers even if their actions constitute reckless wrongdoing," From linked source (http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/may2006/2006-05-03-02.asp)
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: colporteur on October 06, 2009, 01:08:53 PM
I have read that the UN says there is a Swine Flu pandemic. I don't  always keep up on the latest but where is the evidence that millions are dying of Swine Flu?  Millions are dying of just about everything else but and yet the Swine Flu is public enemy number 1.

This seems to be everything to do with diversion, control, experimentation, and money with nothing to do with the Swine flu.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Wally on October 07, 2009, 03:50:11 AM
The word "pandemic" has become meaningless.  If 1918 was a pandemic, then how can this word be applied to what's going on now?  I've been suspicious of this from the beginning.  

Get a good supply of Elderberry.  It's supposed to be effective on most flus.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Brian M on October 07, 2009, 05:19:40 AM
A pandemic has nothing to do with the fatality level.

""Pandemic flu" has been one of the buzzwords of late 2005. But how does the phrase that's on everyone's lips differ from "epidemic," that other well-worn disease term?

Apparently, a lot of people aren't sure. Merriam-Webster reports that "pandemic" is the seventh most frequently looked-up word in its online dictionary this year. The definition: "occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the population."

Source (http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/what-is-pandemic)
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: JimB on March 23, 2010, 12:22:19 PM
30 million kids get vaccine tainted with pig virus...

Rotarix rotavirus vaccine contaminated, officials say

 Federal health authorities recommended Monday that doctors suspend using Rotarix, one of two vaccines licensed in the United States against rotavirus, saying the vaccine is contaminated with material from a pig virus.

"There is no evidence at this time that this material poses a safety risk," Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Dr. Margaret Hamburg told reporters in a conference call.

Rotarix, made by GlaxoSmithKline, was approved by the FDA in 2008. The contaminant material is DNA from porcine circovirus 1, a virus from pigs that is not known to cause disease in humans or animals, Hamburg said.

About 1 million children in the United States and about 30 million worldwide have gotten Rotarix vaccine, she said.

Source (http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/03/22/rotavirus.vaccine/?hpt=T2)
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on March 23, 2010, 02:23:09 PM
Thanks for the update, Jim.

It is interesting to note that "Vaccination of humans against rotavirus (RV) diarrhea may be accomplished by oral immunization with attenuated animal strains known to be antigenically very similar to human strains."   source (http://www.jstor.org/pss/30105223)

The immunization is contaminated with "animal strains" of the virus.  Some are not disturbed by this, but with the light we have on disease in animals and the risk this poses to human health, I think it important to note that many vaccines are indeed "contaminated" with animal matter.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: JimB on November 30, 2013, 03:29:48 PM
Hopkins Scientist Slams Flu Vaccine

For most people, says Dr. Blaylock, flu vaccines don't prevent the flu but actually increase the odds of getting it. The mercury contained in vaccines is such a strong immune depressant that a flu shot suppresses immunity for several weeks. "This makes people highly susceptible to catching the flu," he says. "They may even think the vaccine gave them the flu, but that's not true — it depressed their immune system and then they caught the flu."
Source (http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Headline/influenza-virus-flu-vaccine-Peter-Doshi-Ph-D-/2013/05/16/id/504942#ixzz2i2ArlwJz)

Years and years ago I finally decided to a flu vaccine. The very next day I started to exhibit the typical flu symptoms and by the 2nd day I definitely had the flu. Never since then have I taken the vaccine. The dr. says above I assumed that the vaccine gave me the flu but his explanation also makes sense to me. Told my experience to my dr. and his explanation was that I was getting the flu anyway and the timing was coincidental.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Mimi on November 30, 2013, 06:06:18 PM
I am not surprised.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: colporteur on February 26, 2014, 06:36:21 AM
http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/cdc-forced-to-release-documents-showing-they-knew-vaccine-preservative-causes-autism/#.Uw32r_RDuSo
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on February 26, 2014, 12:54:44 PM
A CDC document showing the ingredients in some vaccinations, including some with thimerosal which contains mercury. Others have animal products including gelatin.

Influenza (Flucelvax)
Madin Darby Canine Kidney (MDCK) cell protein, MDCK cell DNA, polysorbate 80, cetyltrimethlyammonium bromide, β-propiolactone, phosphate buffer   October, 2012

Influenza (Fluvirin)
nonylphenol ethoxylate, thimerosal (multidose vial–trace only in prefilled syringe), polymyxin, neomycin, beta-propiolactone, egg proteins, phosphate buffer   January, 2012

Influenza (Flulaval)
thimerosal, formaldehyde, sodium deoxycholate, egg proteins   February, 2013

Influenza (Fluzone: Standard, High-Dose, & Intradermal)
formaldehyde, octylphenol ethoxylate (Triton X-100), gelatin (standard trivalent formulation only), thimerosal (multi-dose vial only) , egg protein, phosphate buffers, sucrose   April, 2013

Influenza (FluMist)
ethylene diamine tetraacetic acid (EDTA), monosodium glutamate, hydrolyzed porcine gelatin, arginine, sucrose, dibasic potassium phosphate, monobasic potassium phosphate, gentamicin sulfate, egg protein    July, 2013

Japanese Encephalitis (Ixiaro)
aluminum hydroxide, Vero cells, protamine sulfate, formaldehyde, bovine serum albumin, sodium metabisulphite, sucrose   May, 2013

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Lewis on February 26, 2014, 01:42:25 PM
http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/cdc-forced-to-release-documents-showing-they-knew-vaccine-preservative-causes-autism/#.Uw32r_RDuSo

I can not remember the sources for all of this because it has been awhile since I read them, and discussed this among many doctors and Autistics on a variety of groups, but this statement and many others in the past which claims vaccinations cause Autism has been shown to be just a claim, and this particular release is not reliable. I wish I could find all that I have read...

Because of the fear many had in knowing this, and what Jenny McCarthy, a public figure, stated about her son having Autism, and it being caused by vaccines... many stopped vaccinating their children quite a few years ago.

Jenny McCarthy recently made a statement that vaccinations did not cause her sons Autism after all... and that her son had something different but had Autism like symptoms.

Also, it is known that stress, PTSD, some vaccines, environmental impacts, diet and other things can cause "Autism like" symptoms. Symptoms and specifically being Autistic is not the same.

It has been seen that many who have not given their children vaccines... their children have been diagnosed with Autism.

In the tests done on the brain with those who are Autistic... mercury/thimerosal or other components of vaccines would not cause the brain to be wired in the manner in which it is. They are discovering that there is a genetic link and that Autism is found in family histories.

The vaccinations and ingredients have been shown among many doctors to have other elements to be harmful to the person as has been discussed here.

Another concern I have... on the many Autism groups and forums I belong to... it is becoming increasingly popular now for many to call those who do not vaccinate their children... abusers. Many Autistics and non Autistic are trying to encourage lawmakers to change the laws about those who do not get their children vaccinated. They are calling it child abuse.

I am Autistic. My daughter is Autistic.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: colporteur on February 26, 2014, 04:38:39 PM
Lewis;

Are you saying that Thimersol does not negatively  affect the brain ?  I have talked to a young mother who  believes  her children became autistic shortly after being inoculated. She said she saw a change in them soon after. Does it really matter that much if a vaccine causes autistic symptoms or actual autism?  That seems like more of a technicality than something that really changes things. Either way it is serious.

Do you consider it wrong not to vaccinate a child. There seems to be good reason to avoid injecting children with a host of so many  dangerous elements.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Lewis on February 26, 2014, 06:51:20 PM
I never said anything that indicated it was wrong or not wrong to vaccinate.

Many believe their children got Autism from vaccinations. But because they think this, does not mean they are right.

And yes... Thimersol can affect people in different ways... but it does not create Autism. Symptoms and actually being Autistic IS two different things. I have studied this for quite a few years Colporteur.

Again, people with PTSD show symptoms of Autism, but are not Autistic.

Many who speak these claims about vaccinations and Autism, are not Autistic. Why not listen and speak to an Autistic?

Many in my family are Autistic. I know of 3 generations. Many in my family never got vaccinated who are Autistic.

A doctor named Andrew Wakefield tried to prove the theory of the vaccine and Autism link. But later he admitted to fraud. Then came this document supposedly from the CDC to counter Wakefield.

If you study Autism, the brain and everything related. Then study how Thimersol affects the brain, you will discover that Thimersol and the other ingredients in vaccines does not cause a person to become Autistic.

It has been proven that children show signs of being Autistic regardless if vaccinated or not all around the same age.

Aspergers and Autism are nearly the same. The difference... speech is effected. Most children with Aspergers have high IQ's. Many have IQ's over 160. Thimersol in tests and studies has never been shown to cause a person to have a high IQ. Some are Savants like I am, and others in my family. We have Eidetic memory. Also those with Aspergers are seen to show the signs of being Autistic before 1 year old. I know many Autist who excelled above their classes in vocabulary, math, art and music. Who went to college and had doctorate degrees. There is no such thing as high or low functioning as many claim.

What many do not understand is this. Being Autistic is not the problem. What is the problem is "other" underlying issues that many have who are Autistic. These are Comorbid issues. It is these issues that cause the health problems found in Autistic. These are not caused by Autism. You can find these same problem in those who are neurotypical/non Autistic. The reason why these other issues seem worse is because many Autistic have very strong senses/sensory.

Knowledge is a good thing. Fact is... I have met many families who truly are not knowledgeable about Autism and Comorbid issues. This also includes many doctors and psychiatrist. They all read the DSM-V. in order to diagnose. The DSM is all about money, control and politics. You can go and read sources that will tell you Autism is a disease and mental illness. It was once believed it was Schizophrenia. It was also once believed Autism was the mothers fault. I don't believe every news article that is documented online, just any source or every book on a subject.

One of the most popular Autism supports in this country is feeding off the fear of parents saying Autism will destruct your family, and call it a disease... When you look at their support they give, they give only 4 percent to Autism support. And when you see how much money they are putting into their pockets, it becomes obvious what their agenda is. This is the support many parents are listening to today. They listen to a group that has no Autistic people on their board or headship. Sad.

Well, I am done. I have been through this topic of Autism and vaccines for quite a few years. I have found that very few will change their opinions no matter what evidence you show or tell them.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Curt on April 19, 2014, 10:30:22 PM
Lewis,

i really appreciate what you have shared fro your own experience on Autism. It is an area I have to say I dont understand. Thank you for the personal sharing.

Maybe we could copy out all this good information on Autism and create a new discussion thread on it.

Here is some very recent information on Autism - seems the thinking about deficient neural connections is not exactly correct. What the research found is that the neural networks are over connected in Autism.

                                      ______________________________________                       
Key Brain 'Networks' May Differ in Autism, Study Suggests
April 16, 2014

 

WEDNESDAY, April 16, 2014 (HealthDay News) -- Differences in brain connectivity may help explain the social impairments common in those who have autism spectrum disorders, new research suggests.

The small study compared the brains of 25 teens with an autism spectrum disorder to those of 25 typically developing teens, all aged 11 to 18. The researchers found key differences between the two groups in brain "networks" that help people to figure out what others are thinking, and to understand others' actions and emotions.

"It is generally agreed that the way the networks are organized is not typical [in those with autism]," explained study lead researcher Inna Fishman, assistant research professor of psychology at San Diego State University.

The prevailing idea until now, she said, has been that these neurological networks are under-connected in people with autism. However, "we found they were over-connected -- they talk to each other way more than expected at that age."

The study is published in the April 16 online edition of JAMA Psychiatry.

According to recent statistics issued by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, about one in 68 children in the United States has been identified with an autism spectrum disorder. Boys are about five times more likely to be affected than are girls.

Fishman said the approach her team took in the study is a relatively new one.

"In the last seven to 10 years, people began to understand that we shouldn't be searching for answers in any individual brain area, but looking at the brain as a collection of networks," she said.

In the study, Fishman's team used functional MRI scans to look at the connectivity in two brain networks, both involved in social processing. One is the "mentalizing" system, also known as the theory of mind. It helps a person infer what others are thinking, their beliefs and intentions. The other is the "mirror neuron" system, which helps people understand the meaning and actions of another by replicating them.

People with autism show differences in this connectivity compared to typically developing people, and it predominately manifests as over-activity, Fishman's team noted. The researchers also found that the greater the differences in neural connectivity, the more severe the child's social skill problems.

Although the study could not prove cause and effect, these findings suggest that differences in this neurological "cross talk" might be linked with social impairments, Fishman said.

The research was supported by the U.S. National Institutes of Health and the Autism Science Foundation.

One expert who reviewed the study said the findings were preliminary but intriguing.

"There have been an enormous number of studies that have found differences [in brains of children with autism]," said Dr. Andrew Adesman, chief of developmental and behavioral pediatrics at the Cohen Children's Medical Center of New York in New Hyde Park, N.Y.

"The differences haven't always been consistent. We still don't yet understand what causes autism, nor do we have a great handle on how the brain of those with autism differs," he explained.

"What they found was that this excess connectivity is more common in those with more severe symptoms," Adesman said. However, "they are not sure if this is a chicken or egg [finding]."

The researchers agree, noting that they can't establish cause and effect. In essence, it's possible that the abnormal social development of children with an autism spectrum disorder may lead to the connectivity differences, they said, not the other way around.

Fishman said her team is planning further study, however. She said that if the findings are replicated, there might be a way to tweak the neural networks to bring them closer to that of children without an autism spectrum disorder.

More information

Find out more about autism from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

Copyright © 2014 HealthDay. All rights reserved.

SOURCES: Inna Fishman, Ph.D., assistant research professor of psychology, San Diego State Univ; Andrew Adesman, M.D., chief of developmental and behavioral pediatrics, Steven & Alexandra Cohen Children's Medical Center of New York, New Hyde Par...


Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on February 09, 2015, 12:28:23 PM
There is a move to make parents have their children vaccinated.  The current uproar came about because Measles which was non-existent in the U.S. has been infecting children who were exposed at Disneyland. Most of those infected were vaccinated. So, how did the disease get to Disneyland?  Because there are millions entering the US illegally, diseases of many kinds are being spread, including Measles.

While vaccinations have worked to reduce the risk of infection for many, there are dangers.  With the failure of the government to protect our health to a great degree, this extends into the manufacturing and regulation of vaccines. Disease has increased greatly in the animal world. These diseases are often transmitted to human through food.  The danger does not stop with food, it extends to the vaccines that use animal products in their manufacture.

Before receiving an immunization, careful investigation needs to be done as to the safety of the vaccine which would include the discovery if animal products were used in its manufacture.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on February 13, 2015, 10:00:37 AM
I am not sure that I have commented on one of the main concerns that I have with vaccinations in this thread, but I have stated many times that due to the corruption in the world today, we cannot leave the safety of our children and ourselves in the hands of government agencies or corporations. This is especially true when it comes to injecting a substance directly into the blood stream of our children. In researching the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine, I found a current article that does a good job of expressing why I am concerned. The author is not supporting those who refuse vaccinations, but is telling us that there is a greater concern for society than those who do not vaccinate their children.

While encouraging you to read this linked article, I do not say all that is presented is not without error, but you need to read it Selective Outrage and Public Health: There Are Greater Dangers Than Anti-Vaxxers.  (http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/29060-selective-outrage-and-public-health-there-are-greater-dangers-than-anti-vaxxers#) If you are concerned about any vaccine, it will be enlightening, but if you are considering the MMR vaccine, it will be especially helpful.  The author does not appear to understand that the danger from vaccines is much greater than he realizes. He is focused on the lack of "rage" directed at the corruption which has led to dangerous vaccines being foisted upon society. He sees that the media has fueled the rage directed at a relatively small group who have refused vaccinations, but have not been equally  enraged at huge corporations and others where corruption has created an even greater risk to society. He asks "then what should be the reaction to the outbreaks that occurred due to failed vaccines, bad science, fraud and corruption? What is it that has people so disproportionately riled about 92 people with measles? It may simply be media-fueled hysteria that has grossly exaggerated the threat of the so-called "anti-vaccination movement."

We are given a view of what is happening in society that causes great concern to those who are being threatened with loss of individual rights to determine what is injected into their children's bloodstream. This is not an unplanned reaction to the events we are now witnessing. There is one who has been setting the stage to be able to force the conscience in matters of religious and personal liberty. There is nothing of greater concern to parents than the safety of their children. We see where this is headed. Do not believe for one moment that this is not a spiritual battle. It surely is. There are two areas of life where Satan has been working to place God's children in a hard place, education and health. Society is moving in both areas to destroy our children, to place parents in a position where they must give in to practices that will injure their children either physically or spiritually, or have their children removed from their homes.

It is in times such as these that we realize what a blessing we have in our religion. We serve a God who created all that we see that is good. He has proved His love to us by allowing His Son to come to this dark spot in the universe to suffer and die that our children might live. We can rest assured knowing that "all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28. 

The fact that we are called upon to endure trial shows that Jesus sees in us something precious which He desires to develop through our trials. God never leads His children otherwise than they would choose to be led, if they could see the end from the beginning and discern the glory of the purpose which they are fulfilling as co-workers with Him.

If we will do our small part in seeking to glorify Him in all that we do, if we will make our families a living example what faith that works will achieve in our families, then we can expect that He will do the larger part that we cannot do. By faith we have the peace He has promised that passes all understanding. If God be for us, who can be against us and our children!!
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Sister Marie on February 14, 2015, 10:41:31 AM
For me the Truth is in the pudding, as they used to say. Doctor's have been trying to get me to get the flu shot all my life. Only once did I do so. I got sick that one time. Yes, I have had the flu a few times, but only a few. Where people I know take the shot and get the flu far more. I can't see where it does a bit of good. I'd rather not take the shot and continue on as I have. I am not saying I do not use medications. I do when needed. But just to take the flu shot to prevent something when I seldom am bothered with it anyway seems to be senseless.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Wally on February 14, 2015, 11:39:53 AM
I'm with you, Sister Glass.  I've never had a flu shot, and don't intend to get one (even at my advanced age  ;D ).  I've had the flu a few times, but not recently.  You feel miserable, you lay low for a few days, and they you get over it.

I keep hearing from various sources that these shots are not really that effective anyway, so I don't' know what the point is in promoting them so heavily.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Sister Marie on February 14, 2015, 01:27:54 PM
The only point I see, is money...and as we have been reading, power.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: colporteur on February 14, 2015, 02:40:20 PM
We have a church friend who has been in the US for some time  and is now applying for citizenship. It sounds like they are injecting him with every vaccine from chickenpox to the flu  shot to you name it and to the tune of $500. They know that he has been in the US for years but apparently he was been no threat to the rest of the population until applying for citizenship ? How does that figure ?  Mostly $$$ with a digit and several zeros  behind it before it is all said and done. They even require chest X rays etc. to make sure he has no sexually transmitted disease. $$$ This seems once again like they penalize those who try to be legal and do  the right thing and reward the illegals.

The good news is you get to be legal. The bad news is you may not live long enough to pay off your debt.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Kaniela on February 15, 2015, 12:03:35 AM
My daughter has a nurse friend that told her that the hospital she works in has been having an influx of flu patients way more than she has ever seen before. And she said that she contributes a lot of that due to the lab people who combined the flu shot, forgot to add an ingredient. What if they had added a wrong ingredient ? Now that's a scary thought.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Sister Marie on February 15, 2015, 04:59:28 AM
That is a scary thought. To have it not good for you in the first place, then mess it up worse never came to mind Kaniela. That could be so much worse. Wish I knew where that happened.
I thought they bought that stuff. I did not know that they mixed it at the hospital.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Kaniela on February 15, 2015, 09:11:59 AM
Hi sister G. Your probably right when it come to purchasing those things. I'm not sure as to who and where those flu shots come from. But my daughters nurse friend works in a state hospital in the state of  Hawaii.  ;).
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: colporteur on February 15, 2015, 09:30:33 AM
My daughter has a nurse friend that told her that the hospital she works in has been having an influx of flu patients way more than she has ever seen before. And she said that she contributes a lot of that due to the lab people who combined the flu shot, forgot to add an ingredient. What if they had added a wrong ingredient ? Now that's a scary thought.

Yah especially if the ingredient was one that did not have an immediate recognizable effect. Imagine if they found out six months later the ingredient was injected into 5000 people who now all are developing Alzhiemers or cancer. There have been other blunders in the lab because of carelessness.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on March 25, 2015, 09:15:30 AM
In doing some  research  this morning on another topic, I came across this very good article on the measles vaccination. I believe it to be a very good introduction to the subject that will benefit all who are wondering what to do about the pressure to vaccinate we are now seeing throughout the U.S. The subject I was researching was  iatrogenic, doctor induced, deaths in the U.S.

Between zero and seven measles-related deaths have occurred in the U.S. since 2003, but how many measles vaccine reaction death reports have been recorded by the federal Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) in the past 12 years? Searching the MedAlerts database, we see that there were 98 deaths following MMR or MMRV vaccinations reported to VAERS that occurred between 2003 and 2015. Plus, there have been 694 reports of MMR or MMRV vaccinations causing disability in that time frame.  Dissolving Illusions About the Measles Vaccine (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/03/24/dissolving-illusions-measles-vaccine.aspx)
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on March 27, 2015, 12:50:06 PM
Many are unconcerned about disease being transferred from animals to humans. Seventh-day Adventists know the connection. We do not eat meat or animal products if we walk in the light given to us for this reason. Many may not know that vaccines are known to have been infected with animal disease. Here is an abstract from a study which  reveals how serious this is.  SV40 is simian virus (monkey virus).  My "bolding" in abstract.



The presence of SV40 in monkey cell cultures used in the preparation of the polio vaccine from 1955 through 1961 is well documented. Investigations have consistently demonstrated the oncogenic behavior of SV40 in animal models. Early epidemiologic studies were inadequate in demonstrating an increase in cancer incidence associated with contaminated vaccine. Recently, investigators have provided persuasive evidence that SV40 is present in human ependymomas, choroid plexus tumors, bone tumors, and mesotheliomas, however, the etiologic role of the virus in tumorigenesis has not been established.
MATERIALS AND METHODS:

Using data from SEER, we analyzed the incidence of brain tumors, bone tumors, and mesotheliomas from 1973-1993 and the possible relationship of these tumors with the administration of the SV40 contaminated vaccine.
RESULTS:

Our analysis indicates increased rates of ependymomas (37%), osteogenic sarcomas (26%), other bone tumors (34%) and mesothelioma (90%) among those in the exposed as compared to the unexposed birth cohort.
CONCLUSIONS:

These data suggest that there may be an increased incidence of certain cancers among the 98 million persons exposed to contaminated polio vaccine in the U.S.; further investigations are clearly justified. PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10472327)

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Mimi on March 29, 2015, 08:58:40 PM
That is huge. They knew and did it anyway?
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on March 29, 2015, 10:44:24 PM
With the failure of the pharmaceutical industry to police themselves, and the failure of government agencies to adequately protect us, it would not be surprising to find that after 1961 there was still simian monkey virus in the polio vaccine.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: colporteur on September 17, 2015, 09:26:34 AM

What would you do ?

You are helping out  casual friends by taking care of their 16 month old child. You are getting paid but you are charging a modest fee for 40 hours a week and of course charge nothing for the Friday night Sabbath hours. You/we have the child from early afternoon until 11:00 p.m. in the evening. Your friends respect you and trust you with their child. Currently they are not able to place the child in a daycare do to her age as well as the late hours. While the young couple respects you they tend to be a bit simple minded and stubborn. They send with her meat ( pork and beef) of which she cannot  eat well as she only has 4 teeth. The meat is given to our pet cats. Tomorrow they are getting her the flu shot. You/we  have tried to explain to them the hazards of this. The young Hispanic couple (18 and 30 years old) always smile, nod their heads and do the same. Perhaps the reason for the flu shot is that the child recently got the flu. It lasted for 2-3 days and was very mild. They sent with her Tylenol of which we did not give her and she did just fine. What do you do ? Do you do you watch the child on the day of her flu shot or do you explain that the child is theirs of course but you reserve the right not to watch her on the day when she receives the shot ? Your pre teen daughter loves the little girl and pretty much takes care of her with a little help and oversight from her parents. The couple know a good deal about the Sabbath. They are not SDA but lived for a year with a very kind non SDA Sabbath keeping pastor in South America. He knows as well about unclean meat but brushes it off. The past three days the mother has sent the little girl to us with a hand made yarn bracelet with a diamond cross. Each day we took the bracelet off the girl and placed it in her tote bag with clothes, diapers etc.. There are no arguments just disconnect in those areas. WE feel that while the child is in our care we may feed her and dress her as conscience dictates. The parents to not take the concerns you have seriously.

How would you handle the flu shot day ? Would you continue as has been done or would you ask the couple to seek another to watch their child on that day ?

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on September 17, 2015, 09:42:07 AM
There are difficult decisions we have to make at times and they will increase as we approach the end. The thought that comes to my mind, cp, is the  child better off with you or with  someone else? Since it is not your child, you are not responsible for making the decision  about immunizations.  I don't see that you are sinning by watching the child. Is there another concern other than your responsibility?
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: colporteur on September 17, 2015, 10:41:01 AM
There are difficult decisions we have to make at times and they will increase as we approach the end. The thought that comes to my mind, cp, is the  child better off with you or with  someone else? Since it is not your child, you are not responsible for making the decision  about immunizations.  I don't see that you are sinning by watching the child. Is there another concern other than your responsibility?

 I understand that the responsibility is upon the parents. I'm just thinking that it would send a stronger message regarding inoculations. My thought is that this couple tends not to take things seriously until they become more serious. They do not pay much attention and are shallow in terms of any research.

Regarding responsibility, for instance, it is customary for them to say they need help with something and will be right over. They arrive in one hour, or two hours, or not at all. This is typical and drives me nuts. Finally I nipped some of that in the bud. They said they were bringing the girl over for us to watch. Therefore we stick around the premises. They do not show up. We called  and texted several times and no one answers. Probably they were talking to family and friends and did not want to be disrupted. They also had borrowed my GPS which I needed for work. Finally several hours later they called and said they were busy could I pick up my GPS. I said no, bring it back, right now I need to leave for work. They did not show up. I went and picked up my GPS and charged them for the day in terms of day care. I think that got their attention. Unfortunately this is the way they live. You have to lean on them to get their attention. They are friendly but irresponsible and work off the seat of their pants. It is kind of like working with a teenager that hasn't been taught anything. Extremely dysfunctional thinking.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on March 27, 2016, 11:54:26 AM
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: colporteur on November 01, 2017, 06:17:07 AM
I am about to go the doctor and have my heart checked out. I have not been to her yet but know that she will push the flu shot. I am considering how to respond as my first reaction will be to cut her off at the knees.The temptation is to respond, " I would never suggest that you need to go out and get raped. That is how many informed people consider the statement  " you need to get a flu shot."'   However, that is not very informative just boldly showing one's perception of pushy flu shot doctors. 

I may ask her is she got the flu shot. If not why not? If so, I would respond with something to the effect of, " I'm sorry, if you have not had negative reactions yet, you will, sooner or later. Some have literally died from it, some have terrible reactions soon after and most all have bad reactions sooner or later as the poisons accumulate in their bodies with repeated inoculations After 6  flu shots statistically her chances of developing Alzhiemers later in life goes up 300%. I realize that this is a racket and doctors are required to push the shot even though 60% of them do not themselves take it.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: colporteur on November 01, 2017, 03:38:34 PM

I was pleasantly surprised. She did not say a word about the flu shot and  listened very well to what I had to say. I gave her a nice GC paperback as a gift. She was very appreciative of the book. When she was leaving the room I said with a big smile and with both fists up like a boxer, " and thank you for not even mentioning the flu shot." She kind of chuckled.
Title: US Company Fires Employees Who Refused Flu Shot
Post by: Richard Myers on December 03, 2017, 06:34:26 AM
A Minnesota company, Essential Health fired 50 employees this week who refused to  be vaccinated against the flu. The company has 15 hospitals and 75 clinics in Minnesota, Idaho, North Dakota and Wisconsin. It also has long-term care facilities. Exemptions for religious or medical reasons are to date still  being offered. source (https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2017-11-22/company-fires-50-employees-for-not-getting-flu-shots?int=news-rec)
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: colporteur on December 04, 2017, 05:29:09 AM
A Minnesota company, Essential Health fired 50 employees this week who refused to  be vaccinated against the flu. The company has 15 hospitals and 75 clinics in Minnesota, Idaho, North Dakota and Wisconsin. It also has long-term care facilities. Exemptions for religious or medical reasons are to date still  being offered. source (https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2017-11-22/company-fires-50-employees-for-not-getting-flu-shots?int=news-rec)

The more this topic is agitated the better.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on February 05, 2018, 07:18:14 PM
Here is an interesting article by Russell Blaylock MD, a neurosurgeon on the dangers lurking in vaccinations.    source (https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/pages/the-danger-of-excessive-vaccination-during-brain-development.aspx)
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on April 27, 2019, 10:49:06 PM
There is a move by some governments to force immunizations, doing away with exceptions on the basis of religion. Three states, California, Mississippi, and West Virginia will no longer allow religious exemptions. New York City in response to an outbreak of Measles ordered all who live in certain zip codes in the city be vaccinated against Measles. The only exemption was for medical reasons.

In a court ruling supporting the vaccination order the court held that the state has power to force vaccination for your own good.  “A fireman need not obtain the informed consent of the owner before extinguishing a house fire. Vaccination is known to extinguish the fire of contagion.” source (https://www.countable.us/articles/25355-judge-upholds-mandatory-measles-vaccinations-nyc-do-support-mandatory-vaccines)

Just a little taste of what is coming. Comparing my child to my house!  We at times think that such minds cause little harm. Not when they think they own your children.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Wally on April 28, 2019, 02:26:41 AM
Maine is about to pass a similar law.  If vaccinations are so great, why should they care if not everyone is vaccinated?  In their way of thinking, those who are vaccinated are protected, so it shouldn't matter.  But logic is absent from much of the current public discourse.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Marelis on April 28, 2019, 03:16:46 AM
The whole immunization issue is both fascinating and frightening to watch unfold. People queue for immunizations like it's an after-Christmas sale. You almost have to be able to show your immunization record in order to visit a newborn. People will hurl verbal abuse at the non-immunizers. We can only imagine where this will eventually lead for non-immunizing parents. It is fast becoming a reality that children belong to the state and that parents have little choices to make on the child's part. It is difficult to get a baby boy circumcised. Hard to choose not to immunize. There is a growing opinion among intellectuals that it is child abuse for parents to give children a [Christian] religious upbringing. But back to immunizations, if you're an adult it is fast becoming compulsory to have the whole gamut of immunizations in many lines of work.

Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Marelis on April 28, 2019, 02:07:51 PM
There would be more to the immunization hype than is apparent. Society is being stirred to rally and respond urgently for a greater cause; for the common good. Society is being conditioned to jump when told to jump. To dob on a common enemy and to turn on the enemy. There are many who would view non vaccination as a criminal offence and would support strong punishment. This is not just about immunization. It is about making all citizens comply, about getting people to think and act on the same page (dare I say, not to think and not to question or reason?) The world is rapidly becoming of one mind. It is going to take courage to stand alone.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on September 11, 2021, 07:37:45 AM
Amen!  Today we see such power of the state to rule over those they are elected to protect. How safe are vaccines? Why is it that in the United States one cannot sue those who manufacture vaccines? Why are there so many who refuse to be vaccinated? Is there a connection between vaccines and the spread of disease? We know that a virus can cause cancer as well as other diseases. Are there viruses in vaccines? Are vaccines associated with animal products?  Why do the USDA and FDA allow viruses in animal products being sold for human consumption?

This is from PubMed:

Some of the polio vaccine administered from 1955–1963 was contaminated with a virus, called simian virus 40 (SV40). The virus came from the monkey kidney cell cultures used to produce the vaccine. Most, but not all, of the contamination was in the inactivated polio vaccine (IPV). Once the contamination was recognized, steps were taken to eliminate it from future vaccines. Researchers have long wondered about the effects of the contaminated vaccine on people who received it. Although SV40 has biological properties consistent with a cancer-causing virus, it has not been conclusively established whether it might have caused cancer in humans. Studies of groups of people who received polio vaccine during 1955–1963 provide evidence of no increased cancer risk. However, because these epidemiologic studies are sufficiently flawed, the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety Review Committee concluded that the evidence was inadequate to conclude whether or not the contaminated polio vaccine caused cancer. In light of the biological evidence supporting the theory that SV40-contamination of polio vaccines could contribute to human cancers, the committee recommends continued public health attention in the form of policy analysis, communication, and targeted biological research.   source (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25057632/)

How many vaccines are in production today? How many diseases should we be "protected" from? How many flues circulate? Do we need to get vaccinated every month, every year? Surely we need more than one shot a year to be on the safe side? If you step on a nail and want a tetanus shot, you may get a double vaccine without knowing it. It is rare to find tetanus vaccine alone in America. It is combined with other vaccines. Ask what you are getting before allowing a vaccination.
Title: Re: Immunizations
Post by: Richard Myers on October 26, 2021, 08:46:45 PM
Natural infection from Covid19 is greater than mRNA two shots according to study from Israel.  13 times greater.