The Remnant Online

Study => Bread of Life => Topic started by: Richard Myers on March 06, 2000, 10:37:00 AM

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on March 06, 2000, 10:37:00 AM
A short note to begin our discussion of the gospel of salvation. The third angel's message begins with the first angel having the everlasting gospel to proclaim to those upon the earth. This message has been entrusted to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. How can we give this message without being united upon what is the gospel? We can't, not with power.

Therefore, I beg of all that are reading this, please prayerfully enter into our study that we might honor Him who has given all for us. This is my continual prayer.

As we begin, I pray:  Heavenly Father send thy Holy Spirit to open our eyes to the truth of your love and grace and its power to change our characters. I pray in the precious  name of Jesus. Amen.

The message proclaimed by the angel flying in the midst of heaven is the everlasting gospel, the same gospel that was declared in Eden when God said to the serpent, "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" (Gen. 3:15). Here was the first promise of a Saviour who would stand on the field of battle to contest the power of Satan and prevail against him. Christ came to our world to represent the character of God as it is represented in His holy law; for His law is a transcript of His character. Christ was both the law and the gospel. The angel that proclaims the everlasting gospel proclaims the law of God; for the gospel of salvation brings men to obedience of the law, whereby their characters are formed after the divine similitude.

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In His love and grace,    Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Clive Nevell on March 08, 2000, 10:23:00 AM
Do not think for one moment that I am down grading John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting light" wonderful as that is. Today, present truth tell us from Rev. 14:6,7 "And I saw another agel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him,For the HOUR OF HIS JUDGEMENT IS COME, and WORSHIP him that made heaven , and earth, and the sea, and the fountain of waters."
(emphasis supplied)
Doesn't it tell us here that the judgement is part of the gospel that is to be preached to all the world. This is what makes SDA so different to all other religions. You may get some who will even keep the Sabbath, baptism by immersion, believe in the second coming, state of the dead, etc. But how many believe in the the Investigative judgement. We must realize that before God condems anyone He always invetigates first, not to see what is taking place but to show that His judgements are fair and just to the rest of the universe.
Yes we must be united on the gospel.
Regards
Clive
Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on March 12, 2000, 05:06:00 PM
Amen, Brother Clive.

Is there power in the gospel of Jesus Christ? What is this power and to whom is it available?

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In His love and grace,    Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Clive Nevell on March 12, 2000, 05:39:00 PM
Acts 1:8 "But ye shall receive POWER, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in..."

2 Peter 1:3 "According to His divine POWER hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness..."

1 Peter 1:5 "Who are kept by the POWER of God through faith  unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

Heb. 7:16 "Who is made, not after the law of a commandment, but after the POWER of an endless life."
(all emphasis supplied)

Yes we can have POWER and must have POWER, it comes in many ways to differant people, to some it is the "still small voice" to others it may be manifest in ways that are only discernable to that particular person, our next door felt the Hand of the Lord on her hands in a car accident.

It is available to all who ask.

John 14:16 "...and he shall give you another comforter, that he may abide with you for ever." Good news for me and everyone else.

That's POWER
Regards
Clive

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: gorazd on March 13, 2000, 03:41:00 AM
Richard, you posed the question that is very sipmle but extremly difficult at the same time.

I would say that the gospel is in the first place the news that Jesus Christ is the true Son of God and that He is the answer to all the problems that human being can have (not counting imaginary problems and perplexities, which are delusions from satan). Jesus is the one and only solution, the supernatural help that is offered to humanity, in the form of a real man that walked the earth about 2000 years ago and went to the cross as an offering for my and everybody’s sins.

Yet this grand truth is unseperably linked to another truths, as one looks into it closely. Jesus said that the Scriptures are the authority and give us reliable information about how spiritual world works, how everything came into being and what will happen in the future and when. So accepting Jesus leads a thinker wider and wider in everything else what His Word caries and implies.

And because God revealed more and more truths through history, which were relevant and important for that time, the gospel, as time went on, contained more and more wide and complete package of truths. That part of the truth which was at some time especialy relevant had to be somewhere at the front of the gospel at that time.

And for our time there is such a variety of important parts of the gospel as this has never been in history, because the general knowledge of the world, mixed with noumerous lies and vain philosophies, is so wide and organized also. So what Christ’s followers have to offer to the world is intelligent and deep life philosophy, which exactly suits the spiritual reality humans live in and is founded in faith in Jesus and His everlasting teaching. Christian worldview contains the right answers to all relevant questions that might arise, because Jesus is the Living Mind of infinite wisdom.

It is possible to say much more about what is the gospel, so I will leave others to speak and spare some ideas for further conversation.

Your brother,  Gorazd.  

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Gary K on March 13, 2000, 10:05:00 AM
Hi all,

As I read this thread and thought about the responses and the original post I see something that shows how many different ways God uses to reach us. All of us will see things in a slightly different light but yet it is all a part of the same whole.

What do I see? I see in the Gospel the healing that God so longs to give each of us from the scars of sin. The healing that allows us to reflect the love of God, that makes His character our character.

When I see the third angels message to, Fear God and give glory to Him who made heaven and earth, I see a call to allow our God to come in and heal every part of us. To heal all the things that make us not reflect Him in thought and deed, to recreate us in His image.

Jesus said, ask that your joy may be full. If we do not ask for and allow His healing we cannot have His full joy. We miss out on heaven on earth.

Your brother in Christ, Gary

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on March 13, 2000, 01:45:00 PM
Brothers Clive, Gorazd, and Gary, it is so good to see the focus on Jesus and what He wants to do for us. Let me share a truth that we opened the Ministry of Healing forum with and see how it harmonizes with what we are saying thus far.

"Our Lord Jesus Christ came to this world as the unwearied servant of man's necessity. He 'took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses,' that He might minister to every need of humanity. Matthew 8:17. The burden of disease and wretchedness and sin He came to remove. It was His mission to bring to men complete restoration; He came to give them health and peace and perfection of character."

There truly is power in the gospel to accomplish that which Christ came to this earth to do. As we go deeper into these beautiful truths, let us also study how it is  that we might come to receive these blessings.

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In His love and grace,    Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on March 18, 2000, 05:56:00 PM
Brother James says he sees two ways to gain this power that gives eternal life. What must we do in order to have eternal life? How do we come to Jesus? The gospel has power, but how do we receive this power into our lives?

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In His love and grace,    Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: frenchmon on March 25, 2000, 02:09:00 PM
 "What must we do in order to have eternal life? How do we come to Jesus? The gospel has power, but how do we receive this power into our lives?"

Jesus said: "For the bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven and giveth life unto the world." "I am the bread of life: He that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." (John 6:33,34)

When those who want the true "Bread of Life" that cometh down from heaven recieve this wonderful gift into there souls, they will have power to obey. But those who only have a faith that is only in the head, have not recieved the true manna from heaven into the soul. To recieve the power from on high is not only agreeing with facts about Jesus in the head, but also having a hunger in the heart.

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you." "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:53,54)

Those who have power are those who come to Jesus and feast!

frenchmon

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on March 25, 2000, 03:49:00 PM
Brother frenchmon, amen! How good to see you!  :) Yes, profession of faith means nothing. It is a changed heart that Jesus wants. He wants us to reveal His love to those for whom He died. If we have not this love, we are none of His. The world will know we are His by the love we have one for another. A knowledge of the truth has never saved anyone. As Brother Crawford has shared it must be brought into the life.

Welcome, Brother frenchmon.  :) It is good to have you with us online. Say hello to your wife.  :)

In His love and grace,   Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: frenchmon on March 25, 2000, 07:11:00 PM
Blessings to you also Richard! May The True "Bread Of Life" bestow more and more of His grace upon you and yours.

frenchmon

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Clive Nevell on March 25, 2000, 09:01:00 PM
What does Rev. 1:1,3 say "The Revelation of Jesus Christ...Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it: for the time is near."
Revelation is about Jesus Christ and what follows is a result of knowing Him.
It is the only book in the Bible where we are told we will be blest if we "read, hear and keep"
The gospel is about that "read, hear and keep" Jesus Christ.
Regards
Clive
Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: M.A. Crawford on March 27, 2000, 01:02:00 PM
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the "Good News" that "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). This is the very heart of the Gospel message, and when this fact is taught as it should be, in its simplicity and beauty, sincere hearts will melt and individuals will give their lives to Christ and be drawn to Him by this indescribable love.

It is a correct understanding of---and the desire to respond positively to---this all-encompassing love God has for humankind that draws men and women to Him. Not doctrines and not sermons, but a knowledge of the supreme sacrifice Christ made to redeem us from the penalty of death by dying in our stead is the overriding factor in the decision to commit one's life to, and establish a love relationship with, Him.

Salvation is a gift of God (Eph. 2:8, 9). We can never do anything of ourselves to earn it no matter what, or how many, "good deeds" we do in this life. As a result, we don't keep God's Commandments to be saved. We do so because WE LOVE THE LORD, and want to make sure we are doing all we can to please Him because of that love.  

This is a very important point that is critical unto salvation. Consequently, I believe one reason why some of our churches are so cold, lifeless, and devoid of the radiance and glow of happiness on the faces of many of their members is because of the absence of this love factor.

Many are attempting to keep the "letter" of the law while completely ignoring the principle (spirit) of the law. And that principle, or spirit, that is so often missing is LOVE. "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love" (1 John 4:8).

M.A.

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on March 27, 2000, 07:34:00 PM
M.A.,  the gospel is very simple, is it not? We do not need a degree in theology to understand the sermon on the mount. Thank you so much for expressing the foundation principles in a way that all can understand!  :)

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In His love and grace,    Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: charlene on March 28, 2000, 03:50:00 AM
"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
Love is the greatest.       iCor 13:13

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charlene

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: James Saptenno on April 06, 2000, 01:05:00 AM
Sister Charlene

Why is love the greatest? Which love it means? Selfish love or agape love? Both are love!
But one bring eternal life and the other one bring death.

Satan and Adam were examples of God creatures that came from an agape love society and must exercise agape love but had changed their agape love to selfish love and we know the results. Destruction and death.

We came from a selfish love society , and our duty and determination is to change our selfish love to agape love. If we succeed, we truly will have eternal life.

It is only a matter of changing selfish love to agape love.

Your brother in Christ

James S

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: charlene on April 06, 2000, 06:52:00 AM
Good morning Brother James,

In the context of 1 Cor.13, you will see that this refers to agape love.   Even if we give our "bodies to be burned", without LOVE, it is nothing.

Our motives, the hidden energy behind our works, will come into judgement. The unselfish love of God expressed to others, will bring  us face to face with our Saviour.

God is Good,

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charlene

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: M.A. Crawford on April 06, 2000, 04:20:00 PM
"Why is love the greatest?...Selfish love or agape love?...We come from a selfish love society, and our duty and determination is to change our selfish love to agape love."

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you" (Matt. 5:43, 44).

Because we are human beings, it is natural for us to love self and "look out for no.1". It is also natural for us to love those who love us because it is our nature, but Jesus said in vs. 46: "...if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?"  

Agape or Godly love comes about when we are able to love those who do not treat us kindly, or in a Christ-like manner. It does not mean one has to hug and kiss them. That is not the kind of "love" Jesus has reference to. It means to TREAT THEM RIGHT even though they do not treat us right. But this is easier said than done because our natural tendency is to "get even" with those who have mistreated us. But this is not the way of Christ. Consequently, we cannot demonstrate Agape love without the power of the Holy Spirit in the life through Christ.

True Agape love is something that is done everyday, and not just on the Sabbath. Emptying oneself of "self" means to "put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ" every day, every week, every month, and every year, and order one's life after His Divine Similitude.

M.A.

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on April 07, 2000, 05:52:00 AM
Amen!  I die daily by the grace of Christ. His love transforms our characters on a continual basis if we will allow Him into our hearts...   :) if we will behold Him.


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In His love and grace,    Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: James Saptenno on April 08, 2000, 10:10:00 AM
Amen!

Jesus have said: “Verily, verily I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; (John 14:12)
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me; and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest my self to him (John 14:21)

He that loved me not knoweth not God; for God is love (I John 4:8). And hereby  we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected; hereby know we that we are in Him. He that said he abideth in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. (I John 2:3,5,6).

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. There is NO FEAR in love; but perfect love casteth out fear; because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. (I John 4:17,18)

As Jesus had walk a life of humiliation, tribulation and persecution until His death to redeem us so that we that believe in Him will not perish but will have everlasting life, then we too must be ready to walk in His path, WITHOUT FEAR, even death is the consequences. Because perfect love cast out fear. Even though we must be headed because we will not worship the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon our fore head, or in our hands, because we know that we will live and reign with Christ for 1000 years in heaven ( Revelation 20:4).

Can we stand the pain, can we stand the trial, can we stand the persecution, can we face the death?
As Paul had said; For me to live is Christ and to die is GAIN (Philippians 1:21).
As John has said; Perfect love (agape love) cast out fear.

Then surely we will be ready to walk as Jesus has walked.
Knowing God is eternal life, His commandments is eternal life.

In His love

James S

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on April 08, 2000, 10:18:00 AM
Amen, Brother James.  I do not know what the situation is like in Jakarta, but Jesus is coming soon and many of our brothers and sisters are already under fierce attack around the world. Persecution finds many ways to afflict God's people, yet Jesus will never leave us nor forsake us! He will grant us grace and strength to honor and glorify Him whom has given all for us.

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In His love and grace,    Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: James Saptenno on April 09, 2000, 12:23:00 AM
You are right brother Richard.

As in Indonesia in the last 12 months there has been some big trials for Christians in some provinces. There rose a conflict between Moslems and Christians with thousands of dead victims. A very cruel and satanic war. And among the Christians we found a few SDA’s members. Churches were burned to ashes, families were killed, women, children. Many fled and seek refugee in other province. It was a big riot. But we can see that God protect His family, as many reports from those province told us that there are very few SDA members got killed.
The situation now is getting quite back to normal but some times small incidents happen. This issue about religion conflict is dangerous and hot. So what all we can do is always asking God protection and ready to meet the worst.

Anyway, I believe Christ is at hand, coming soon. Probation will closed in a very short time. Last day events bring us closer and closer to the long awaiting DAY. He has pronounced His second coming, so that His day  will not come as a thieve in the night for us which live in the lights and not in darkness.

Your brother in Christ

James S

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: M.A. Crawford on April 26, 2000, 10:57:00 AM
Brother James S, someone has said: "Democracy is a very bad form of government; but all the others are so much worse." To which I heartedly agree with, especially the last part. Democracy is risky because it depends on individuals to self-govern themselves and VOLUNTARILY without coercion abide by the laws of the land. Democracy was conceived by men who tried to incoprorate in a document (Declaration of Independence) both religious and civil liberties, while at the same time keeping them seperated and keeping one from having control over the other.

This is not the case in many countries around the world where religious zealots are in control of the government employing, in many instances, the strong arm of civil authoritarianism to keep the people in check. The Founding Fathers knew that to consider any "marriage" between church and state would eventually produce the kind of tyranny that we see in many Third World countries where poverty, ignorance, and a lack of education are characteristics of the majority of the populace.

My point is it is oftentimes quite dangerous to be of a different religious persuasion in some of these foreign countries where to be such could be "hazardous to one's health." To be a Seventh-day Adventist in some parts of the world means to live under such a threat. Individuals, in some instances, take a chance with their very lives by accepting the Three Angels' Message, and I have nothing but admiration for them while at the same time wondering if we in this "land of the free, and home of the brave" would be willing to stand for these same Adventist truths if our lives were threatened as a result of what we believe.

M.A.        

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Daryl Fawcett on April 26, 2000, 11:10:00 AM
A very good question.

It would definitely separate the tares from the wheat.

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl.

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: James Saptenno on April 28, 2000, 10:58:00 AM

As the bible says, all God’s children will face great tribulation. I thought a few years ago, how could a Sunday law made effective in a Moslem country as Indonesia, and think we will live in peace for a long  years to go. But Satan has different way for us. I never imagine that religion fanaticism can be so dangerous and very sensitive. Now, we can not even feel save. And must really prepare our self in a better relationship with God, so that we can have the love and faith of Christ. And have no fear to continue on the organization of our churches and schools, to spread the gospel and announcing the three angel message.

In His love

James S

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on April 28, 2000, 04:31:00 PM
Amen, Brother James. Our prayers are with our brothers and sisters in Indonesia. Soon we all will be facing very difficult situations, and indeed many are today. Let draw close to the Lord on the Sabbath day.  :)

In His love and grace,   Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Laurie Mosher on April 28, 2000, 04:33:00 PM
   Dear Forum family!
 I'm reminded of a little finger play in which a Brother was pointing out to a member of another faith, the importance of the Gospel and God's 10 Commandment Law. Using each finger on a hand the Brother said.

"The 'thumb' represents the "PREACHER".
And what does the Preacher 'preach'?
The second finger represents 'THE GOOD NEWS'.
And what is "The Good News"?
Jesus Christ   (3rd finger)
Why did Jesus Christ come?
He came to "SAVE SINNERS" (4th finger)
What is SIN?
Sin is the transgression of the law. (5th finger)
NOW:
 If you take away THE LAW, there is NO SIN. And if there is no sin, we don't need a Saviour.
Since there is no Saviour, there is NO GOOD NEWS.
And if there is No Good News,we don't need Jesus.
So what is left? " A PREACHER WITH NOTHING TO SAVE'.

 Remember Matthew 1:21 And the Bible says "And she (Mary) shall bring forth a Son, and thou shalt call His name JESUS; FOR he shall SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM (not in) THEIR sins."

  And Jesus said "IF you love ME,(then) keep My commandments." John 14:15.

 We 'fear God" when we remember to respect Him and have reverence for Him. The Christian's fear is not one of being a slave to a dictator.

  Keep "the" faith as it is in Jesus! And "be thou faithful unto death, and I (Jesus) will give you a crown of life." Rev.2:10.  Jesus is coming VERY SOON!
  Br. Laurie

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: LindaRS on April 30, 2000, 12:50:00 PM
Thank you Br. Laurie, Ed and I both like the finger play.  I've have to remember it, because I will probably need it.

Linda

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Gerry Buck on May 01, 2000, 04:19:00 AM
The word 'Gospel' is a derivitive of an old German phrase"Gott Schpiel".  Literaly God Speak.

God speaking His message to His children.
Just think,the God of this universe condescended to speak to us.

the English call it the 'good news' of God.
I like that ,the good news.....what good news,Jn.3:16---God so loved this world(and His creatures in it) He GAVE(not loaned) His only  begotten Son,that WHOSOEVER ( any and all)believeth in Him (His good bnews message) should( not will) not perish( be destroyed) but have everlasting(eternal) life.

The bad news is : the wages of sin is death.
The good news is: the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus.

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He is LORD!
May He come soon.
Gerry

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: jps on July 27, 2000, 11:52:00 AM
Quite simply the gospel is:

"...The power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Rom 1:16

The question becomes then becomes how(?).

"Who (God the Father) hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling,"

How?

"not according to our works, "

Oh? Then How?

"but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus"

When?

"before the world began, But is now made manifest by the appearing of"

Who?

"our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath"

What?

"abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light"

How?

"through the gospel"  2 Tim 1:9,10

There are three "components", if you will, to the gospel.  
(1) Realize you're a sinner (having broken the law you have no hope of immortality or eternal life),
(2) Accept by faith that Jesus Christ came and paid your penalty for breaking the law,
(3) And finally, Repent, turn from your life of sin, take up your cross and follow Christ.

This can be traced all though Acts, ok.. really all of the Bible, but take a look at the events in Acts and you will see the same 3 repeated things.

May God bless,

jps

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on August 19, 2000, 09:11:00 AM
Brother Jim, sorry to take so long to respond, the GC session came along.  :)

Yes,  I like your three components. Can we look at it a little deeper?

How is it that one can learn to accept this wonderful gift? It must be a very difficult proposition, for most will not accept it. Even of those in the church, it appears that many will refuse the blessing.

What is one to do in order that he or she may at last be found on that sea of glass with our Saviour?

In His love and grace,     Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: James Douglas on August 20, 2000, 07:56:00 AM
Salvation.
Everybody wants to be saved, and indeed Christ has saved all men. But not all goes to heaven. Why? Are they that not enter heaven because they have no faith, or no works, or no love, or a combination of it? What is the formulae to get the tickets to  enter heaven?

In His love

James S

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Liane H on August 20, 2000, 01:59:00 PM
I think that the one and only longing of God is the day that we will be with him forever.

This verse in the Bible stands out to me many times. "Mark 1:14 "Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God."

Jesus says in the next verse, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

I go back to Matthew 7:33 and Jesus says: Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

For me the gospel has always been and will continue to be, how our God longs for His children to be with Him in the Fathers kingdom.  It was the price that Jesus paid to get us to the kingdom of God.  What was at hand, was that the Lamb who had been sacrificed from the foundation of the world, was now at hand, in the flesh to fulfill the promise He made in that Garden to Adam and Eve.  Oh what a promise fulfilled. I wonder if Adam and Eve could have been able to comprehend how great that price was going to be. They knew someone or something was going to have to do, but I think not that they realized that the very God who clothed them in there nakedness was going to have to spread out His arms in death.    

All the lesson we are taught, about love, repenting, forgiveness, etc is a stepping stone to  getting there.  The gospel tells us that all we really are here on this planet are pilgrims and wanderers until we reach the kingdom of God.

Liane    

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: M.A. Crawford on August 26, 2000, 04:05:00 PM
Bro. James S., when you say "everybody wants to be saved," I assume you mean everyone wants to be saved who has made the provisions according to the Bible to be saved. This is key to our understanding of what constitutes being saved. The Bible is our "road map" to salvation. It contains principles when followed that will lead to eternal life. Without the instruction contained in the Word, it is not possible to be saved.

When you say "Christ has saved all men," I assume you mean Christ has provided the way whereby all men might be saved (John 14:6). But,unfortunately, all do not go to Heaven because all do not choose to be saved. There are many---both male and female---who do not want anything to do with any kind of organized religion. But thankfully, for those of us who want to be saved, Jesus Christ has provided us with an example that we should order our lives after His Divine Likeness in order to be saved (1 Peter 2:21; cf 1 John 2:6).

What is the formula to be saved and enter Heaven? The Bible very clearly tells us to "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved..." (Acts 16:31; cf John 6:47). There is no mystery to salvation and eternal life. When one TRULY BELIEVES in God, it will be manifested in the life by way of obedience to His Word. I do not believe it is possible to believe in God and do otherwise. I believe true belief in God will cause an individual to bring his/her life in line with the Will of God and to order one's steps after His Word without reservation. I am convinced that is what Jesus meant when He said: "...Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 18:3). A child with loving parents believes and trusts in them without hesitation. He does not have to wonder. He feels safe and secure in knowing that they have his best interest at heart in whatever they ask of him to do. So it is with our Heavenly Father. WHATEVER God asks of us in His Word, we can rest assured it is designed for our good and well-being.

M.A.  

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on May 15, 2001, 08:17:00 PM
Amen, Brother Crawford. The term "saved" is used to denote one who has met the conditions of salvation. While the offer is to all, most reject the offer and thus do not possess salvation and are not in a "saved" condition. Yes, there are conditions to receiving eternal life. One must come to Jesus and give all that they have. They must purchase the pearl of great price. Yet, without the sacrifice of Jesus this would not be possible. No amount of money can purchase salvation, for the wages of sin is death. Only the death and sufferings of Jesus can atone for our sins. But, we must come to Jesus that we might believe.

In His love and grace,         Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on July 08, 2002, 11:05:00 AM
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved..."  Amen, Brother Crawford.

Many have not a correct concept of what "believe" entails. Many, so many think a mere profession of belief is satisfactory to obtain eternal life. Here they err. As we examine the concept of "believe", I would like to take us to the Words of Jesus that will give us added information upon which to not only understand the concept "believe", but will press home a correct understanding of the gospel and salvation.

We find Jesus answering the question about how to obtain salvation in Matthew 19 beginning with verse 16. "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?  And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

The Spirit of Truth is the only One that can bring home to the mind the direct relationship between "believe" and the obedience that Jesus said is required to obtain salvation.

What is the that relationship?

Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: DLWilson on July 13, 2002, 04:17:00 PM

Brothers Crawford and Myers,

Your concern that we understand the conditions of having eternal life is commendable.  The scriptural requirements of faith and obedience have been steadily attacked in our church and even more so outside of it.  

Because the word "saved" is used to designate a state of having eternal life,  it would appear that you want to be sure that James S is not denying the importance of exercising true faith if one would have eternal life.  Such faith appropriates the righteousness of Christ in the sinners behalf.  The condition of eternal life, perfect obedience to God's holy law, is met, because Christ is the "end" of the law for everyone that believes.
I too hope that James S would not deny this.  

To his credit, I would point out that, in fact, it appears that he is  not saying that "all men have eternal life".  He is affirming that all men have been saved and also that not all men have been saved eternally and therefore not all men will enter heaven or have eternal life.  

Please allow me to suggest that James is probably using a different definition of the word "saved", than the theological connotation that we often use of "having eternal life" or of "entering heaven".  If he were using the definition that you are using he would be obviously contradicting himself.  

The word "saved" literally means to be delivered and the scriptures use it in this manner.  Therefore,  James is technically and Biblically correct.  Jesus has already saved the world.  He has already delivered the entire human race from death.   This is in fact the basis of the good news, the revelation of the Father's unimaginable love,  that "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us".  

In Christ,

DLWilson

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Randy S on July 13, 2002, 04:48:00 PM
I would respectfully disagree with the three components of salvation posted earlier.  When Jesus spoke to Nicodemus of salvation he spoke of being born again.  When David spoke of what God really wants in Paslm 51 he spoke of truth in the inward parts and a changed heart.  Indeed, to be "converted" means to be changed.  Salvation requires that we be changed from rebels into loyal followers of God.

If there are three components to salvation then I would identify them as repentence, forgiveness, and change (of life, heart, mind).  Even then, repentence and forgiveness are essentially prerequisites for salvation.  A changed character is really the component that saves.  And that is made possible by the power of God.

Consider the analogy of a patient who has contracted lung cancer (sin) from his decision to smoke.  He learns of a doctor who is willing (forgiveness) and able (power) to save him by healing the disease.  Here we have both repentence and forgiveness, but if the operation (change) is never performed the patient will die.  When the operation is performed and the patient is changed and the cancer is removed then the patient is saved.  Even then the patient may decide to return to smoking and be lost.

We can see this in many stories in the Bible and in the SOP.  Repentence alone does not equal salvation.  You can be sorry but not be willing to change and you will be lost.  Forgiveness alone does not equal salvation.  Jesus forgave those who were crucifying him.  But unless they later repented and allowed God to change them they were lost.  It is in allowing God to change the heart that salvation occurs.  Repentence on the part of the sinner and forgiveness on the part of God are the prerequisites.  But unless we trust that God has the power to change us through the new birth and we decide to allow him to do so we will never see the kingdom.

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: M.A. Crawford on July 15, 2002, 11:39:00 AM
Thank you, Bro. Wilson, for your kind and insightful comments. I especially appreciate your comments above concerning what Bro. James S. probably has reference to when he stated that Jesus has already saved everyone. You did an excellent job in seeing and presenting the statement "through his eyes" so to speak.

As I stated somewhere in another forum, as moderators, we do not engage in these forum discussions for the purpose of vanity or self-glory, but to exalt Jesus Christ and the Word of God as THE ONLY MEANS OF SALVATION for those who desire to be saved. Therefore, I write what I write for the purpose of causing us all TO LOOK UPON JESUS so we can order our lives after His Divine Likeness. The Bible instructs us HOW we are to so order our lives in that manner. This is the reason why it is OF PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE, here in these last days while probation lingers, that we spend EVERY WAKING MOMENT very carefully and prayerfully studying God's Instruction Book--The Holy Bible--so we can become doers of His Word and not just hearers only (Jas. 1:22). It is one thing to know that which is right (there are many millions who know that, including the devil and his angels [Jas. 2:19]), but it is totally another TO DO THAT WHICH IS RIGHT!!! Our objective as moderators in these forums is simply to help one another study our Bibles and learn what's right in the hope that it will lead us all TO DO THAT WHICH IS RIGHT IN GOD'S SIGHT.

M.A.

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on July 15, 2002, 11:54:00 AM
Amen, Brothers Wilson and Randy.

As I read both of your posts, something impressed me that I believe to be very important. Our interpretation of words and thoughts is always a little different someplace. We must work to come into unity of doctrine. Many times we are not very far apart.

This discussion of the foundation of our faith is quite important and even though we may disagree on some interpretations, we can agree on the most important point. We need to clearly understand what we must to in order to obtain eternal life. This is where Satan has been successful with his deceptions.

It appears that we agree that we need to have an indwelling Christ. We must die to self and allow Christ to rule. When we come to Jesus just as we are, He will give us repentance and make us "partakers of the divine nature." He forgives us of past sins and His suffering and death atones for my past sins. I am justified by His blood, but more than this, He gives me of His character. It is now Christ , not I that lives.

Can we agree that Jesus "imputes" His righteousness to the repentant sinner and "imparts" His righteousness to those who have died to self?

Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Allan F on July 22, 2002, 01:07:00 AM
Hello,
Richard I have wondered what is included in the expressions 'imputed' and 'imparted' righteousness. For some time I was convinced that 'imputed righteousness' meant only the legal, outward part and had nothing to do with the inward renewing of the mind.
But when I read how Ellen G White uses these words, it may seem that more is involved in the imputed part.

Here are some quotations

6.BC 1098:
"By receiving His imputed righteousness, through the transforming power of the Holy Spirit, we become like Him."

7.BC 929:
"His imputed grace and power He gives to all who receive Him by faith."

KH 302:
"Through faith in His name He imputes unto us His righteousness, and it becomes a living principle in our life."

Has anybody studied this subject, and can tell me if I am right/wrong when I suggest that the imputed righteousness is all what is happening in the courtyard of the sancuary: Forgiveness and the new birth. Looking forward to comments  :)

Allan

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Allan F on July 22, 2002, 03:35:00 AM
Some of you mentioned the different meanings of the word "save(d)" we find in the Bible.
As far as I have studied the Bible, the word is used for (at least) 3 different meanings:

1) In the Old and New Testament this word is often used for Gods protection/rescuing from enemies, illness, death etc. (eg. Psalm 106:10; Luk 18:42).

2) The word "save(d)" is also used for describing the unchangeable state of men at the second coming of Jesus, when we forever will be together with Him, and are forever saved from death and this sinful world (Matt 24:13).

3)The Bible also uses this word to describe the change from spiritual death to spiritual life. From a life in sin to a life in righteousness. Everybody who has experienced forgiveness and the cleansing of the heart (the experience in the court yard), is saved from their previous sinful condition.

Let me give 2 examples from the last category and compare them with the expression "not by works", we also find in both these texts, to see if there are some contradiction between this expression and the meaning of salvation (category nr. 3).

Please compare these two passages from Eph. and Tit. They are very similar in their message.

Eph. 2:1-5:
"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

But because of his great love for us, God who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions, it is by grace you have been saved." v.8: "For it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith, and it is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works..."

I have heard so many quoting v.8 out of its context, saying that this verse tells us that salvation is something outside man, something which was done 2000 years ago.

For the first, this verse are not talking about the final salvation, it is describing the change from sprirtual death to christian living.
Secondly, we would do well to understand what is included/excluded from the expression "not by works" in v.8. Does it exclude from the salvation the change of our character, or does it only exclude the method in which the change cannot take place?

Let us look at Tit. 3:3-7. Here we can clearly see that the renewing of the heart is not excluded in salvation, by the expression "not by works".

"At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another.

But when the kindness and love of God our saviour appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done (= not by works), but because of His mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become hears having the hope of eternal life."

Here Paul tells us that He was not saved from His previous sinful condition by His own works, but by Gods works, through the work of the Holy Spirit. By the blood of Jesus and the work of His Spirit Paul became justified and become "heir having hope of eternal life."

To know what is included/excluded by "not by works" can be very helpful when one study other Bible passages, eg. Romans and Galatians. Many exclude from salvation (both category 2+3) everything that has to do with character and renewing of the mind, by using the expression "not by works" in a wrong manner.

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified" (Gal 2,16).

"...if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law" (Gal 3,21).

Only Jesus can give us life. Let us beleive in him!

Allan F

[This message has been edited by Allan F (edited 07-22-2002).]

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Randy S on July 22, 2002, 07:02:00 AM
What a terrific pair of posts!  I used to be one who believe that salvation was only a legal adjustment.  And I struggled over EGW quotes like the following: "While good works will not save even one soul, yet it is impossible for even one soul to be saved without good works".  It seemed like an oxymoron to me.

But thinking about her statement led me to understand that Paul and James were talking about two completely different "works".  Paul condemns the beliefe that you can gain salvation by your own effort.  James states that if you don't do good works it shows that you have not allowed the power of God to transform your heart or character.  One is prior to conversion and the other is after conversion.  Paul is speaking of trying to make works the cause of salvation and James is speking of good works as the result of salvation.

In the same way Jesus talks about good trees yielding good fruit and bad trees yielding bad fruit, by their fruits ye shall know them, vines and branches, and so on.  Then all the texts which say that we will be judged or rewarded based on what we do made sense to me such as this one:

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.  

So, while God looks at the heart to judge motive, We can also be judged by our works because as Jesus taught, what you do is determined by your heart.

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Allan F on July 22, 2002, 10:49:00 AM
Hello Randy  :)
Nice to see you on the forum. I hope the presentation was understandable. English is not my native language, so I often feel it is difficult to express myself properly in english.

What you said about "saved by faith" and "judged by works" seems to be a great contradiction to many adventists.

Why this is "heresy" among us today I beleive is because people have lost faith in Jesus and His messages through the spirit of prophecy and also become influenced to think as other christian denominations do that the requirements for entering into heaven are the same as the requirements for coming to Jesus. We can, and must always come to Jesus just as we are, but we can not necessarily enter heaven as we are. The latter is the reason why we need to first come to Jesus. Do you see my point?

Allan F

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: M.A. Crawford on July 22, 2002, 12:15:00 PM
"I used to be one who believe that salvation was only a legal adjustment. And I struggled over EGW quotes like the following: 'While good works will not save even one soul, yet it is impossible for even one soul to be saved without good works.'"

The words of Mrs. White which surround that quote are presented below:

"PORTION OF A LETTER TO A. T. JONES, APRIL 9, 1893, LETTER 44, 1893. PUBLISHED IN SELECTED MESSAGES, BOOK ONE, PP. 377-379.

"I was attending a meeting, a large congregation were present. In my dream you were presenting the subject of faith and the imparted righteousness of Christ by faith. You repeated several times that works amounted to nothing, that there were conditions. The matter was presented in that light that I knew minds would be confused and would not receive the correct impression in reference to faith and works, and I decided to write to you. You state this matter too strongly. There are conditions to our receiving justification and sanctification, and the righteousness of Christ. I know your meaning, but you leave a wrong impression upon many minds. While good works will not save even one soul, yet it is impossible for even one soul to be saved without good works....

"Then when you say there are no conditions, and some expressions are made quite broad, you burden the minds, and some cannot see consistency in your expressions. They cannot see how they can harmonize these expressions WITH THE PLAIN STATEMENTS OF THE WORD OF GOD (Emphasis mine throughout). Please guard these points. These strong assertions in regard to works never make our position any stronger. The expressions weaken our position, for there are many who will consider you an extremist and will lose the rich lessons you have for them upon the very subjects they need to know....My brother, it is hard for the mind to comprehend this point, and do not confuse any mind WITH IDEAS THAT WILL NOT HARMONIZE WITH THE WORD...." (Faith and Works, Chapter 17, pp. 111, 112).

Mrs. White is herein again exalting the preeminence of the Word of God. She quite simply tells the minister and us that what we teach and believe unto salvation MUST BE BASED UPON GOD'S WORD.

The relationship of faith and works is found in James 2:14-26. In these verses of Scripture we find that faith does not do away with works, instead, FAITH PROVES ITSELF BY WORKS!

M.A.

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Allan F on July 22, 2002, 01:35:00 PM
Thank you Crawford for this quote from EGW. I also very much appreciated your last statement.

Allan F

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on July 22, 2002, 08:00:00 PM
Good to see you with us again, Brother Allan!!   :) And,  such a blessing to be in harmony on the foundation of our faith.

Brother Allan, I am open to learning about the differences between "imputed" and "imparted" in the context of our discussion. Your quotes are interesting. Do you find any ojections to my use of the two terms?

I have been meditating on the statements and I don't necessarily find them opposed to what  I believe. My understanding is that there is indeed power in the "imputed" righteousness of Christ. But, does this change the righteousness from "imputed" to "imparted"? I don't think so, but I am anxious to hear more.   :)

In His love and grace,

Richard

[This message has been edited by Richard Myers (edited 08-01-2002).]

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Randy S on July 22, 2002, 09:23:00 PM
I would also like to hear people's thoughts on "imputed" and "imparted".  My understanding is that when a person is drawn to God and makes a decision that they don't want to rebel against Him any longer, that God considers that person as righteous.  That is the "imputed" part.  And then God makes available to that person His power to transform the heart and mind so that the desire to be right with God is gradually translated into practical and effective Christ-like living.  That is the "imparted" part.  This also equates to justification and sanctification.  Is that correct?
Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Allan F on July 24, 2002, 08:19:00 AM
Thank you for the response. Concerning "imparted" and imputed" righteousness, I beleive that I don't know more than you do. I only came across these quotations from EGW recently. These expressions are not commonly used in the Bible, so it seems to be mainly a study in the writings of Ellen White.

Richard, I still agree with your explanation that: "Jesus "imputes" His righteousness to the repentant sinner and "imparts" His righteousness to those who have died to self"

Allan F

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: M.A. Crawford on July 24, 2002, 10:04:00 AM
"And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God." James 2:23.

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Romans 4:3.

In commenting on James 2:23, the SDA Bible Commentary says:

"Imputed. Gr. logizomai, 'to reckon,' 'to count' (see on Rom. 4:3). Abraham was declared righteous because he trusted God's word and joyfully accepted the promise of a Redeemer (see on Gal. 3:6). The crowning evidence that he trusted God was revealed in his willingness to slay Isaac at God's command--an act that apparently would have nullified God's own promises. This supreme ordeal vindicated God's declaration of the patriarch's worthiness." (7BC 523).

There is no verse of Scripture in the Bible which uses the words "imparted righteousness." However, there is a text which might shed some light on the word "imparted" as it relates to righteousness:

"And he answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none..." Luke 3:11.

In this verse, the Commentary says that the word "impart" means literally to "share." (5BC 718).

M.A.

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on July 24, 2002, 11:53:00 AM
It is good to recognize we are dealing with a word "impart" in a way that we do not see in the Bible, but we do see in the Spirit of Prophecy. It is like the word "character".

I like the way the Bible does use the word in another context (see Brother Crawford's post) and believe this is an appropriate use in reference to the "righteousness of Christ", as did Ellen White.  We of course want Bible support for this meaning and that is provided throughout this topic as well as others dealing with the foundation of our faith.

Again, the "righteousness of Christ" His goodness, His character, His holiness, is "imparted" to the Christian who abides in Him. "It is Christ, not I". This is not an imputation we are discussing, but an "impartation" or "litteral" as the Bible uses the word "impart".  Can we see this again from the Bible? Of course, it is throughout the Bible, but I especially like 1 John 1 verses 7 and 9. "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

This is not "imputed".  Jesus' perfect life can be "imputed" to the sinner and thus past sins can be forgiven, but this does not change the character or actions of the Christian. The repentant believer receives real power to obey the law of God. This power to obey is literal or "imparted". Doing good is called "righteousness". Therefore we have the term "imparted righteousness". This righteousness has to do with the motives of the heart. They are good. It is this "moral" character that is imparted at the moment the Christian dies to self. With this new heart comes all of the fruits of the Spirit. They are "imparted".

Let me address the statements that Brother Allen brought up. I am not sure exactly what they mean, but can we say this: Salvation comes by grace. Yes, it requires faith in God, but it is God's grace that transforms the life, changes the heart. Can we then say that the revelation of that grace is all important. Without the understanding of God's grace, how could we assimilate it?  By beholding this grace, we become changed.  :)

OK...so what is this "imputed righteousness" that gives power to the sinner? Is not "imputed righteousness" another phrase for "grace"?  Christ's righteousness and His suffering and death stand in place of my sins. Is this not grace? And, if this is grace, then is it not the power that transforms the life? When we behold the "imputed" righteousness of Christ and the cost, we will receive power to obey all of God's commands.  :)

In His love and grace,             Richard

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on December 21, 2002, 05:36:00 AM
The gospel brings power into the life. Christ only is the way, the truth, the life; and man can be justified alone through the imputation of Christ's righteousness. Man is justified freely by God's grace through faith, and not by works, lest any man should boast. Salvation is the gift of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.  

To all who receive Jesus as a personal Saviour He gives power to become the sons of God. "The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, . . . full of grace and truth. . . . And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace." All who become the sons of God are possessed of his nature. They dwell in Christ as Christ dwells in God. Converted to the truth, imbued with the Holy Spirit, they are under the transforming influence of divine grace. The life of self-indulgence they once lived is changed to a life of service. Knowing the power of his grace, they are commissioned and qualified to bear the message of salvation to a sinful world, and to make known his grace and truth. As they consecrate themselves wholly to God, the grace they impart will be continually renewed in increased measure.

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on March 29, 2007, 09:29:00 PM
In the interview with Nicodemus, Jesus unfolded the plan of salvation, and His mission to the world. In none of His subsequent discourses did He explain so fully, step by step, the work necessary to be done in the hearts of all who would inherit the kingdom of heaven. At the very beginning of His ministry Jesus opened the truth to a member of the Sanhedrin, to the mind that was most receptive, and to an appointed teacher of the people. But the leaders of Israel did not welcome the light. Nicodemus hid the truth in his heart, and for three years there was little apparent fruit.  

If we desire to understand the gospel and salvation, let us study the message that Jesus gave to Nicodemus that night in the garden almost 2,000 years ago. It has not lost its importance.

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Mimi on April 01, 2007, 01:30:00 PM
May we back up a moment and discuss Nicodemus' apprehension of even acknowledging Jesus in the daylight? He had one foot in the corner of the Sanhedrin with another one on the fence, trying to understand this man, Jesus, who claimed to be the Messiah.

Sorry, I needed to catch up and refresh my mind with the absolute details of the story:

"He said to Nicodemus, It is not theoretical knowledge you need so much as spiritual regeneration. You need not to have your curiosity satisfied, but to have a new heart. You must receive a new life from above before you can appreciate heavenly things. Until this change takes place, making all things new, it will result in no saving good for you to discuss with Me My authority or My mission."  {DA 171.1}

[This message has been edited by Sybil (edited 04-01-2007).]

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Mimi on April 09, 2007, 02:02:00 PM
Nicodemus the Cautious – this helps to explain dear Nicodemus and his conversation with Jesus.

Nicodemus was dramatically affected by the events at the cross. We always associate Nicodemus with Christ’s teaching regarding the new birth. The narrative of Nicodemus’ experience with Jesus is found in John 3. There are words in this story that are of the greatest significance.

Nicodemus was a Pharisee. They were very particular persons, and had the highest standards of conduct of any group in Israel. They carefully studied the minutiae of the law, and observed those details with constant care. They were separatists, having nothing to do with sin and its defilement, as they conceived them. Many did not live up to all these principles, but most of them, according to the judgment of our Lord, were hypocrites. But I don’t think we should apply this term to Nicodemus. He was no hypocrite. He did his best to live according to all the standards he considered right. He cannot be accused of insincerity. Not all the Pharisees were as bad as one might be led to believe from the connotation of the term today.

He was a man of the highest ideals, the loftiest standards and the strongest discipline. We might also call him meticulous in his adherence to his code of conduct. He was also a “ruler of the Jews” – a member of the Hebrew senate, the Sanhedrin. This body was made up of persons of experience. They were required to be fathers of families. And it was hoped that they had developed understanding of the viewpoints of their rebellious or wayward sons. They possessed a certain measure of maturity from having lived long enough and having met often enough the vicissitudes of life. Among this group were men of ripe wisdom and rich experience. Nicodemus was worthy of this high honor.

In his conversation with Nicodemus, Jesus called attention to an important point concerning Nicodemus. He asked, “Art thou a master in Israel?” The force of the Greek in this passage is, “Are you that famous teacher in Israel?” He had devoted himself to scriptural studies and had worked on methods of clarifying his expositions. He had attained a position as the revered and beloved teacher of God’s chosen people.

“The same came to Jesus by night.” John 3:2. This piece of information opens a window into the disposition of Nicodemus. He was cautious. He moved slowly and with care. He was not yet ready to give himself fully to the cause of Christ. There are those who refuse to commit themselves immediate to some point. The diffident ones may be far wiser in their attitude than those who rush ahead. Even Gamaliel said, in effect – “Truth is its own vindicator. Leave these men alone. If it is God who is backing the Christianity they are propagating, we fight the impossible. If it is the devil, it contains the seeds of its own destruction.” See Acts 5:34-39.

Nicodemus sought Jesus out. He found by inquiry where He would likely be. And with pounding heart and strange feelings of timidity, Nicodemus discussed the problem that was troubling him. See DA 168.

He came to Christ with compliments. Jesus listened to him politely. Then He made a startling declaration – “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus met this with what he must have regarded as irrefutable logic. This “birth” was obviously physically absurd. How can a grown person be born again? A man is the product of all the experiences he has had from his infancy. It is surely just as impossible to begin again intellectually and spiritually as it is to revert into an embryo physically, his answer suggested. But Jesus never sought to refute logic with logic. The Saviour persuaded by declaration and illustration.

In effect, Jesus whispered – “Listen, Nicodemus – hear the wind! It comes and it goes! We know it only by its murmuring movements. It is so with the workings of the Spirit.” And then the Lord turned the Biblical scholar to a Biblical illustration. “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up.” John 3:14. Have you ever wondered how merely looking at a bronze snake could heal a man dying of snake bite? Faith is the answer. Faith in God’s plan.

Passages from the inspired page, which he knew so well, were joined to other passages. The mosaic of truth formed a path to its goal in added and clearer perceptions of truth. Predictions in the Old Testament pointed to their consummation in the death of the Messiah for the sins of mankind. Nicodemus knew he had been impelled by the Spirit. He had felt a mysterious force drawing him as he had gone out to meet Jesus. The pattern of Nicodemus’ life was beginning to shape up. The teacher of Israel left to ponder deeply.

He now rapidly came to know for a fact that the Teacher sent from God was the Messiah. He came to accept Christ’s claim that He was the fulfillment of the antitype that man centuries before had been lifted up in the wilderness that the dying might look and live. Faith in the uplifted serpent of bronze was the antidote of the venom of the serpent of death. God was among men and yet unrecognized by men. Nicodemus had not recognized Him before, but ultimately came to believe fully. Months passed and Nicodemus did not publicly take his stand for Him whom he knew to be the Messiah of the new kingdom.

Then one day, Jesus was nailed to the cross and before he fully realized what was happening, Jesus was dead on the cross. Then he knew that the prophecies had been carried out to the letter. He had died on the cross and He was drawing men to Himself, just as He had said. He and his friend Joseph of Arimethea sensed this to be a fact. Joseph had a brand-new and empty tomb for Jesus’ body and Nicodemus had 100 pounds of precious spikenard for the burying. They wrapped Him in the finest linen and lovingly laid Him to rest.

As we think of Nicodemus’ response to truth and revelation, let us look behind this story to Christ’s providential dealings with him. We have said all sorts of things about Nicodemus. He was too cautions, he was afraid to be counted. But we might say many more things that had we been there, we might well have done as he did.

We watch His patience, His complete and practical understanding of the mind of the Hebrew rabbi. Jesus spoke few words of rebuke to this Pharisee because of his failure to grasp the symbolism of the Scriptures he professed to teach. He did not rail against him for not comprehending the vital doctrine of the new birth, but met him where he was. Christ saw, with His divine insight, the precise nature of this ruler’s problem, and pointed to the very remedy needed. Then he allowed time for the Spirit to bring about the necessary changes in the attitude of Nicodemus. Jesus did not dog his heels or continue to knock at his door. He told him the truth, and then He prayed that the truth might bring about results of a transformed life.

The encounter with Nicodemus early in Christ’s ministry brought forth results at its end. The deciding factor in the ruler’s life was the cross. Through the cross light finally dawned in all its clarity. It is always this way in sincere hearts. Among the faceless ones about Golgotha are the overly cautious.

Excerpts from “These Watched Him Die” – Leslie Hardinge    

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Sybil
"In times like these, we have a Savior!"

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on April 10, 2007, 10:44:00 PM
While our brother has an interesting perspective and it contains truth, it misses the mark. The Words of Jesus are much more pointed and express truth in a very specific manner. Nicodemus, while a "good" man, was not good enough. He was selfish and knew it not. This lesson was very important to Nicodemus, but we miss the lesson if we don't see its application in our own experience and the lies that have been foisted upon the Christian Church. We must listen to Jesus and draw the correct lesson from His Words to Nicodemus that night almost two thousand years ago.

Nicodemus came to Jesus by night, not because he was cautious, but because he was fearful. He did not want to be seen going to Jesus because Jesus was not accepted by the important leaders of Israel. Is it not the same today? Are we willing to expose ourselves to those with whom we disagree when it will bring discord? Maybe with a friend, or a spouse, or a church member, but how about the president of the conference, or the union? Do we want to offend those in high places? Nicodemus did not wish to separate himself from those in power, so he went by night. He did not want to suffer reproach for going to Jesus. How many today feel the same way?

There was a reason why Nicodemus felt and acted the way he did. If we would do the same then the same reason would apply to us also. Why did Nicodemus not want to suffer reproach for going to Jesus?

Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Mimi on April 11, 2007, 08:23:00 AM
Two things come to mind: pride and loss of position.
Title: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on April 11, 2007, 01:44:00 PM
Yes, and the reason why this was the case was clearly spoken by our Lord to Nicodemus that he would know his condition. Nicodemus was in a lost condition and needed to be born again. Jesus did not allow him to remain deceived. We must study this conversation that we would understand the plan of salvation and what it is that we must do to be saved. This is crucial to a people who are told they are in a Laodicean condition, a people who believe they are rich and increased with goods, but do not know they are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked. Such a state of deception is almost fatal. In this conversation with Nicodemus we find help.
Title: Re: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on May 17, 2010, 01:16:16 PM
Hi all,

As I read this thread and thought about the responses and the original post I see something that shows how many different ways God uses to reach us. All of us will see things in a slightly different light but yet it is all a part of the same whole. What do I see? I see in the Gospel the healing that God so longs to give each of us from the scars of sin. The healing that allows us to reflect the love of God, that makes His character our character.

This morning in my studies I was impressed very strongly with the attitude that some have regarding what it is that God does in us. In reading this post from ten years ago, I see that Brother Gary has it right. He says "The healing that allows us to reflect the love of God, that makes His character our character."

There is a battle in the Christian churches. Some argue that we have to obey the law of God to receive eternal life. They say that Christ came in our fallen nature and set an example of obedience in fallen flesh that proves man can keep the law of God. Others say Christ came in the nature of Adam before the fall and it is impossible for man to keep the law of God. Therefore, we may have eternal life while sinning. We have all heard the arguments on both sides.

There are many very subtle lies involved in these arguments on both sides. The gospel is our great hope of escaping the corruption that is in this world. We want to know what it is and what it does. All else centers around a correct understanding of the gospel.

The issue that came to mind very clearly this morning is that Jesus gives us power to obey. As Brother Gary said, He gives us His character. The subtle lie is that we are still great sinners and we need to focus on that. Well, we will always be great sinners even when not sinning. It is our nature. But, what is important is to realize that we are to become partakers of a new nature. Yes, we still live in our vile bodies, but so what!! When Christ is allowed to come and dwell within, there is a dramatic change in both character and nature. We then share His divine nature. We have imparted to us His character. It is Christ, not I. This is where we ought to focus. Why? Because until we see that outside of Christ we are doomed, until we understand that we can know who we are following by the fruits in our lives, we will continue in a deception believing we are ok when we are not.

When Christ in on the throne of the heart, there is a marked contrast in the life. Some do not want to talk about the fruits of His Spirit that are to be seen in the life. Why not? Because many want to retain in their minds some excuse for sin when there is none.

When I see the third angels message to, Fear God and give glory to Him who made heaven and earth, I see a call to allow our God to come in and heal every part of us. To heal all the things that make us not reflect Him in thought and deed, to recreate us in His image. Jesus said, ask that your joy may be full. If we do not ask for and allow His healing we cannot have His full joy. We miss out on heaven on earth.

Amen, Brother Gary!!
Title: Re: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: tc on March 26, 2018, 08:50:40 AM
DEFINING GRACE

A student was late for a term paper & asked the teacher for an extension of time to complete it. The teacher granted the extension under the terms of grace -- popularly defined as unmerited or undeserved favor! It wasn't until years later, when the student looked up the definition of grace in Strong's concordance that he realized that grace includes a deeper meaning than that.
 
Here is Strong's meaning of  the Greek word charis, translated in the KJV 156 times as grace:

G5485  χάρι; charis;  khar'-ece
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy). (emphasis supplied)


To refer to grace only as unmerited favor & to leave out "the divine influence on the heart," is to neglect a truth essential to spiritual growth! When we battle with the earthly nature, or at times we don't feel spiritual, we can asked for the Holy Spirit's influence on the heart & claim the promise of Jesus in Rev. 3:20 to abide with us. Obedience to God's Word, also brings the promise of the Father's presence!  Jesus said,"... If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14:23)  When we ask, God will give us a new heart & put a right spirit within us!  (Eze._36:26) God remembers we are dust & He promises us His presence & power to overcome sin! When we live in His presence He covers us with Christ's righteousness!  The apostle John tells us that if we abide in Christ, we won't continue in sin! 1 John 3:6)  Our willingness to ask for & receive God's grace, His "divine influence on the heart" is the pathway to restoration to His image, the image in which Adam & Eve were created! Praise God for His grace!
Title: Re: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: thx4mercy on March 26, 2018, 11:12:22 AM
To refer to grace only as unmerited favor & to leave out "the divine influence on the heart," is to neglect a truth essential to spiritual growth!

Could "the divine influence on the heart" possibly be an example of "unmerited favor"?
Title: Re: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: tc on March 26, 2018, 07:51:59 PM
To refer to grace only as unmerited favor & to leave out "the divine influence on the heart," is to neglect a truth essential to spiritual growth!

Could "the divine influence on the heart" possibly be an example of "unmerited favor"?
Yes, of course! But, how many people think of grace in that way? The student was asked the meaning of grace. Then he was told by a college bible teacher that grace was
unmerited favor. In the Christian community grace is often considered a "free" ticket to heaven with little corresponding spiritual growth or need for sanctification. I believe
 people need to understood grace as including the power of God to overcome sin & how that is accomplished by abiding in Christ. I am not sure that most Christians see grace in that way. What do you think?

Title: Re: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Glen McCluskey on March 27, 2018, 04:35:54 AM
The Bible says quite a bit about following through after receiving grace.

An example is Ephesians 2:8-10, where the point is made that we are created for good works.

Another is Romans 6:1, about continuing in sin so that "grace may abound".

A third is 2 Corinthians 6:1, about receiving grace in vain.
Title: Re: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: tc on March 27, 2018, 10:03:02 PM
The Bible says quite a bit about following through after receiving grace.

An example is Ephesians 2:8-10, where the point is made that we are created for good works.

Another is Romans 6:1, about continuing in sin so that "grace may abound".

A third is 2 Corinthians 6:1, about receiving grace in vain.

Yes! All of these verses show our need of sanctification! Strange, how some (even in our church) will twist their meaning.

And of course there is 2nd Peter 1:4

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
 having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 I rejoice in what Christ did for us, in taking our nature & our sins, in dying in our place! I am especially thankful for God's promises, especially for His presence,
 & for "the divine influence on the heart!" God's Spirit working on the heart is what makes it possible for God to change us, to save us & to prepare us to be sealed!
Title: Re: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: Richard Myers on March 30, 2018, 07:34:38 AM
Amen! Grace is more than a word, it is the power that transforms the life. Grace reveals God's love for us while we were yet sinners! "God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8.
Title: Re: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: JimB on March 30, 2018, 10:10:53 AM
I was having this exact discussion not long ago with some people. Grace is more than forgiveness. And this text was brought up....

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

I find the last phrase interesting... "find grace TO HELP in time of need." If grace were only forgiveness there would be no power for it to help in a time of need. No help to withstand temptations.
Title: Re: The Gospel and Salvation
Post by: tc on March 31, 2018, 06:35:36 PM
I was having this exact discussion not long ago with some people. Grace is more than forgiveness. And this text was brought up....

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

I find the last phrase interesting... "find grace TO HELP in time of need." If grace were only forgiveness there would be no power for it to help in a time of need. No help to withstand temptations.

Yes! There is a real mssage in that verse! A lot to comtemplate! How often we need prayer! Has anyone here used a framework for prayer,
 like the Sanctuary Prayer method?

We received an email “Easter” message today from a cousin of my wife. He is a former SDA. His closing sentence was:
“Will you put your entire faith in Jesus’ finished work on the cross for the salvation of mankind?”

It is very sad what happens when people turn away from truth! He has adapted a couple of other beliefs also,
 that are not according to scripture. We have exchanged emails for years & haven't been able to reach him, but
we do keep in touch.
 Thanks for the feedback, Jim!
 tc