Author Topic: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law  (Read 57171 times)

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Mimi

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Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2007, 02:55:00 PM »
And where would you place the command "Do not let a witch live"?

To the First Commandment? That is my guess.

  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Liane H

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Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2007, 06:56:00 PM »
Hi Sybil:

So are you saying that there are some civil, diet and hygiene laws are shadows? I thought the ceremonial laws were the only shadows, did I miss something in reading above?

I read the same statements as Arnold above and it appears to me that all are binding by the Tenn Commandments.

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Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

[This message has been edited by Liane H (edited 05-24-2007).]

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Mimi

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Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2007, 06:45:00 AM »
We are still looking at them - and over time will discover the binding ones out of these categories.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Liane H

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« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2007, 11:17:00 AM »
In my mind it is good to do the research to learn these statutes and judgments, but to decide which ones are still binding is not necessary if I read what was said by the Spirit of Prophecy:

"to "observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes"

The issue is these are not binding upon the world but to us for our own good. We may not be able to fulfill the punishments as they are written, but we are obligated to obey them ourselves.

This could be pushing the church into a place of new light and knowledge with God for the last generation that follow the Lamb.

It is worth the study.

------------------
Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Liane H

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« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2007, 11:23:00 AM »
As a further thought and view we may not be able to exact the same punishment, but we could disfellowship those that do not follow the principles of God's statutes and judgments.

When Roger Williams lived in Massachusetts and he sinned against the church there he was banished from the church and sent to the wilderness to die. Some wonderful indians took him in and he lived.

He founded the state of Rhode Island that I was born and opened the door to freedom of thought and worship of God which was the foundation of our first amendment right to worship.

Our standard in the church is so low that we should hold our head down in shame for what we are today as a denomination. It must grieve God to see how we are today, but time is coming when that all will be behind us and the 144,000 will reflect Jesus and cause His coming soon.

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Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Liane H

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« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2007, 11:27:00 AM »
Further thought from Dueteronomy:

4:2   Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.  

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Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Mimi

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Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2007, 03:31:00 PM »
We will be astonished at our findings in this study and I do not say that lightly. The standards have been so lowered that most of us don't even know what is sin and what isn't sin.

Jim and I are working on a chart with all the five categories. We will pass it around via e-mail after we have finished entering all the statutes so we can get everyone's input.

I'd say there are many more binding than not binding.  

  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Liane H

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« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2007, 04:02:00 PM »
Can I e-mail to you my input?

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Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

[This message has been edited by Liane H (edited 05-25-2007).]

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Mimi

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« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2007, 07:29:00 PM »
I think we have another category - I just hit Lev 18 with the Laws of Sexual Morality. FYI
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

asygo

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« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2007, 02:38:00 AM »
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sybil:
Arnold, my brother! Glad to see you once more!

Yes - when they are solidly attached to the Ten Commandments, they are binding.

What do you think of the four categories thus far? Can you think of any others we have missed?


Sis Sybil,

I've been rather busy lately, with moving to a new residence and all the packing and unpacking that entails. But this is a very interesting topic.

I would like to categorize the statutes, but not in the way you have been doing it. The foundation of life is God's character, the transcript of which are the 10 Commandments. The SOP tells us that the statutes were given to help the people understand and keep the commandments.

So, here are my categories:

1) Shadows - done away by Christ's death.
2) Same - continue as is.
3) Modified - continue concept, but implementation is different.

I haven't studied this as much as I'd like, but I'm guessing most end up in #3. The hard part is figuring out the core concept, then figuring out the new implementation.

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By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
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By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
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Sister Glass

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Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2007, 07:04:00 AM »
Good Morning Brother,

On #3 Would you please give me an example of this? For just looking at it the first thing that came to mind was that Sunday keepers keep the concept, they have just added a new implementation of it. So of course, we don't want to do that. So please provide for me an example of what you mean.     :) Thanks

P.S. #1 and 2 are very good, for this is the core of interest we are trying to decide, if we should keep them or not.

Another thought that is coming is that the Moslems keep most if not all of these things, and it is with this idea in mind that they come against the Christians with fever, considering us to be no good and worthy of death because we do not keep them. They feel it gives them the right to kill us with God's go ahead. They too have the concept but have added their own desired implementation of the concept.

We don't want people to think of us as being like them, so does one pick and chose, and how do we keep ourself from having people think of us as they do them. We are here to water the earth with Truth that they may be saved, they are here to kill all but themselves. (Those who follow their faith). That is one way we are different. Just thoughts.

So are there rules that really were "just for them" and just for their time frame?" And how do we know how to tell the difference? I'm just sort of thinking out loud.

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With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

[This message has been edited by Sister Glass (edited 05-28-2007).]

With Christian Love,
Marie

Mimi

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« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2007, 07:17:00 AM »
Right on, Arnold - good thoughts!
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

asygo

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« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2007, 10:39:00 AM »
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sister Glass:
On #3 Would you please give me an example of this?

One example could be in the area of slaves. The rules for slavery were different for Israelites than for strangers. We don't have slaves today, but are there underlying principles that apply to employees? Perhaps.

Another is the cancellation of debt on the Jubilee. How do we implement that? Is that #3, or maybe it is #2?

Another is the Feast of Tabernacles. What did it typify? From what I can tell, the anti-type has yet to be fulfilled. Therefore, shouldn't it still be binding? At least, the parts that have not yet been fulfilled?

On that note, maybe there should be a 1a and 1b: Fulfilled Shadows and Unfulfilled Shadows.

quote:
Originally posted by Sister Glass:
For just looking at it the first thing that came to mind was that Sunday keepers keep the concept, they have just added a new implementation of it.

Indeed, they do keep SOME of the concepts. But their failure to keep ALL of the concepts is what leads to the faulty implementation.

One concept is that we do exactly what the Lord commands, no additions or deletions. The failure here leads to failures in other commands.

quote:
Originally posted by Sister Glass:
So are there rules that really were "just for them" and just for their time frame?"

I don't think so. God is the same, so His character is the same, so His requirements are the same.

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By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
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By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
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Mimi

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« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2007, 02:39:00 PM »
Again, right on, Arnold - I have learned from others that the Feast of Tabernacles MAY be something we need to look at from the feast; otherwise everything attached to the ceremonials as far as rituals is a fulfilled shadow.

Now, we need to get straight on the categories. I like the generalized categories Arnold suggested, but I also like specific categories. Let us decide which ones to use.

Now - Jim and I just finished the Microsoft Excel spreadsheet of all the texts dealing with statutes and judgments: Exodus to Deut. If anyone wants me to send it to them for a study sheet, I will. Just give me your e-mail address. It did copy onto MS Word for those who do not have Excel.

So here we go.

  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Mimi

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« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2007, 02:45:00 PM »
 
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Myers:
Most of the Christian world accepts that the shadows have passed away and that the reality is Christ. We do not observe the Passover, but rather the Lord's supper has taken its place.

But, what of the other judgments and statutes? What was their purpose? Are they related to the moral law? I think that we can say they are. There were some that were unique to the state of Israel as a theocracy. There is no longer a theocracy, so these statues are not binding upon us today. We can learn from them though. The statutes that are not shadows and are not related directly to a theocracy we have no reason throw away. They are light regarding the laws of our being. They are the instructions God has given that we may be successful in this world and prepared for the next.

At first glance many will seem to be too far removed from our way of life, from modern society. But, upon closer examination we shall find much wisdom in the statutes. What many will refuse to accept is in fact wisdom from God that will bless us as we walk in the light.


Intimately living with them over the past week through simply reading them carefully, then entering them, text by text, I have been incredibly moved by the depth and detail of each - the broad implications as well as the simplicity encompassed in a very short command. For one, I can see many we do not practice today because we ARE so far removed from their giving four thousand or so years ago. Aren't we privileged to still have the account?

Reading toward the end of Deuteronomy the curses associated with disobedience, you can clearly see "Israel gone wrong" throughout her history. How that nation has been plagued, right down to specific curses.

It makes one tremble.

  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

asygo

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« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2007, 11:24:00 AM »
More thoughts...

quote:
Originally posted by Sister Glass:
Another thought that is coming is that the Moslems keep most if not all of these things, and it is with this idea in mind that they come against the Christians with fever, considering us to be no good and worthy of death because we do not keep them. They feel it gives them the right to kill us with God's go ahead. They too have the concept but have added their own desired implementation of the concept.

The law of love being the foundation of the government of God, the happiness of all intelligent beings depends upon their perfect accord with its great principles of righteousness. God desires from all His creatures the service of love--service that springs from an appreciation of His character. He takes no pleasure in a forced obedience; and to all He grants freedom of will, that they may render Him voluntary service. {PP 34.3}

These murderers might know of some of God's truth, but they lack the foundation of His government.

Who can read the heart but God? Yet, they will presume to read your heart and kill you if they don't like what they see. In that, they echo their father: I will be like the Most High.

quote:
Originally posted by Sister Glass:
We don't want people to think of us as being like them, so does one pick and chose, and how do we keep ourself from having people think of us as they do them. We are here to water the earth with Truth that they may be saved, they are here to kill all but themselves. (Those who follow their faith). That is one way we are different.

We cannot be different by picking and choosing. In fact, that is how they are. We are called to walk in truth - all truth.

Here's how we are to be different:

John  13:34 - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.  

1John 2:9-11 - He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

2John 1:5 - And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

On the other hand, the strongest witness that God has sent His Son into the world is the existence of harmony and union among men of varied dispositions who form His church. This witness it is the privilege of the followers of Christ to bear. But in order to do this, they must place themselves under Christ's command. Their characters must be conformed to His character and their wills to His will. {AA 549.1}

The grace of Christ must mold the entire being, and its triumph will not be complete until the heavenly universe shall witness habitual tenderness of feeling, Christlike love, and holy deeds in the deportment of the children of God. {AG 235.2}

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By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
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By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
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Mimi

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« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2007, 03:00:00 PM »
Our elder who is in the medical biz write this when I sent him the texts:

quote:
You are absolutely right, many of the relevant laws still apply and are not spoken of. I remember Dr. Hardinge in his book about the Sanctuary related one of these laws how women are not to have intercourse within so many days of their period and then turned to some research that was done on cervical cancer in the general population and a group of orthodox Jewish woman in the Boston area. The Jewish women cancer rate was easily a 3rd of the general female population thus signifying that these laws are there today for our protection. I view the 10 commandments as for our protection and therefore Mosaic statutes are the same for our wellbeing.

As we study these statutes, we will see so many that have been dropped off and virtually forgotten - meanwhile disease runs rampant.

  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Mimi

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« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2007, 03:34:00 PM »
Question: isn't seduction considered false witness, therefore being tied directly to the 9th commandment? This may be a no-brainer to some, I just want to make sure while going through the list.

[This message has been edited by Sybil (edited 05-29-2007).]

  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

asygo

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« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2007, 03:51:00 PM »
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sybil:
Quote
...women are not to have intercourse within so many days of their period...

As we study these statutes, we will see so many that have been dropped off and virtually forgotten - meanwhile disease runs rampant.

Yes, many have been neglected, to our loss. But the one mentioned here is still remembered in some circles. But it's really hard to bring it up in Sabbath School.  ;)

BTW, the husbands should also abstain during this time.

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By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
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By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
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asygo

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« Reply #59 on: May 29, 2007, 03:53:00 PM »
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sybil:
isn't seduction considered false witness

Adultery and covetousness, too.

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By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
-end-

[This message has been edited by asygo (edited 05-29-2007).]

By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
-end-