Author Topic: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law  (Read 57203 times)

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Mimi

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #360 on: April 21, 2010, 11:52:48 AM »
Good summation, Richard.
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Tim2

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #361 on: April 21, 2010, 04:20:31 PM »
Yes, good summation Richard. :)  I'm a fan, too ;).  

If I may read between the lines (since you chose not to answer my direct questions), are you saying that anything God may require after dispensing with the civil and ceremonial law, by process of elimination is moral law and therefore binding?  I think that Gospel dispensations change and principles need to keep up, but what think ye? 

Richard Myers

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #362 on: April 21, 2010, 06:03:51 PM »
Brother Tim, I am sorry if I missed a direct question. It is my habit to answer direct questions. I appreciate when others answer my questions and I try to do the same. I went back looking for something I missed. Let me know if I missed more. 
 Are we  seeing a "false Gospel" behind every rock?

It is true that false gospels abound in Christian churches, but what we are examining here is the foundation of the gospel truth. If we err in understanding what God ask of us, then how can we receive grace?  So, no I am not seeing  a false gospel, but the opportunity to teach false gospels if the fourth commandment is linked with the ceremonial law. Or if statutes and judgments that deal with eternal realities are seen as abolished.

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Is God not strong enough to keep us in the way that we should go?


God will keep all from being tempted beyond what they can bear, IF they will abide in Christ. Sin reveals a separation between the sinner and Christ.
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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #363 on: April 21, 2010, 06:42:47 PM »
I intentionally let the EGW quote speak for what it may instruct spiritually.  What do you think it means?  When I come across a quote from her including a Bible text, she usually ties it to her subject before or after she quotes it.   This is how I know to interpret what she is saying.  The subject is "the Jewish economy" from beginning to end.  The text is "one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, til all be fulfilled." Matt 5:18.  I suppose this text could be read, "until each aspect of the law is fulfilled." -- but, to me she is definitely tying the whole Jewish economy to Matt 5:18.  

I guess maybe I did not present my thoughts clear enough, so I will share again what we have been told she means:

In His sermon on the mount, Jesus did not dwell on the specifications of the law, but He did not leave His hearers to conclude that He had come to set aside its requirements. He knew that spies stood ready to seize upon every word that might be wrested to serve their purpose. He knew the prejudice that existed in the minds of many of His hearers, and He said nothing to unsettle their faith in the religion and institutions that had been committed to them through Moses. Christ Himself had given both the moral and the ceremonial law. He did not come to destroy confidence in His own instruction. It was because of His great reverence for the law and the prophets, that He sought to break through the wall of traditional requirements which hemmed in the Jews. While He set aside their false interpretations of the law, He carefully guarded His disciples against yielding up the vital truths committed to the Hebrews.  

The Pharisees prided themselves on their obedience to the law; yet they knew so little of its principles through every-day practice, that to them the Saviour's words sounded like heresy. As He swept away the rubbish under which the truth had been buried, they thought He was sweeping away the truth itself. They whispered to one another that He was making light of the law. He read their thoughts, and answered them, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Here Jesus refutes the charge of the Pharisees. His mission to the world is to vindicate the sacred claims of that law which they charge Him with breaking. If the law of God could have been changed or abrogated, then Christ need not have suffered the consequences of our transgression. He came to explain the relation of the law to man, and to illustrate its precepts by His own life of obedience.

God has given us His holy precepts, because He loves mankind. To shield us from the results of transgression, He reveals the principles of righteousness. The moral law is an expression of the thought of God; when received in Christ, it becomes our thought. It lifts us above the power of natural desires and tendencies, above temptations that lead to sin. God desires us to be happy, and He gave us the precepts of the moral law that in obeying them we might have joy.

When the law was proclaimed from Sinai, God made known to men the holiness of His character, that by contrast they might see the sinfulness of their own. The law was given to convict them of sin, and reveal their need of a Saviour. It would do this as its principles were applied to the heart by the Holy Spirit. This work it is still to do. In the life of Christ the principles of the law are made plain; and as the Holy Spirit of God touches the heart, as the light of Christ reveals to men their need of His cleansing blood and His justifying righteousness, the law is still an agent in bringing us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.    
  
"Till heaven and earth pass," said Jesus, "one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." The sun shining in the heavens, the solid earth upon which we dwell, are God's witnesses that His law is changeless and eternal. Tho they may pass away, the divine precepts shall endure. "It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail." The system of types that pointed to Jesus as the Lamb of God, was to be abolished at His death; but the precepts of the Decalogue are as immutable as the throne of God.  


So, what is being said in Matt. is in reference to the "moral" law. And, the statement being made is not that one day after fulfillment the law will be abolished. No, just the opposite. It is what we have always understood this verse to say. The moral law is as immutable as the throne of God. And if this is not good enough to explain what was being said, here is the rest of the quote:

Since "the law of the Lord is perfect," every variation from it must be evil. Those who disobey the commandments of God, and teach others to do so, are condemned by Christ. The Saviour's life of obedience maintained the claims of the law, and showed the excellence of character that obedience would develop. All who obey as He did, are likewise declaring that the law is "holy, and just, and good."    

Jesus takes up the commandments separately, and explains the depth and breadth of their requirement. Instead of removing one jot of their force, He shows how far-reaching their principles are, and exposes the fatal mistake of the Jews in their outward show of obedience. He declares that by the evil thought or the lustful look the law of God is transgressed. One who becomes a party to the least injustice, is breaking the law, and degrading his own moral nature. Murder first exists in the mind. He who gives hatred a place in his heart, is setting his feet in the path of the murderer; and his offerings are abhorrent to God.  

The plan of redemption contemplates our complete recovery from the power of Satan. The command, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect," is a promise. God's ideal for His children is higher than the highest human thought can reach.


The statement in its context reveals God's concern for our character. The moral law as distinguished from the ceremonial law points out sin in the life. It is a revelation of character, the character of our God. The point being made about in the verse we are looking at has everything to do with the fact that the law is never going to be abolished. This was the intent of the statement that quoted the verse. It has nothing do do with some portions of the ceremonial law not being fulfilled. It addresses the truth that the "moral" law will not ever terminate, never. It cannot be more clear what the intent is.

If there are other questions, dear brother, that you feel I have not responded to, I am sorry. Point them out and I will respond.
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Daniel

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #364 on: May 09, 2010, 05:33:28 AM »
I intentionally let the EGW quote speak for what it may instruct spiritually.  What do you think it means?  When I come across a quote from her including a Bible text, she usually ties it to her subject before or after she quotes it.   This is how I know to interpret what she is saying.  The subject is "the Jewish economy" from beginning to end.  The text is "one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, til all be fulfilled." Matt 5:18.  I suppose this text could be read, "until each aspect of the law is fulfilled." -- but, to me she is definitely tying the whole Jewish economy to Matt 5:18.  

I guess maybe I did not present my thoughts clear enough, so I will share again what we have been told she means:

In His sermon on the mount, Jesus did not dwell on the specifications of the law, but He did not leave His hearers to conclude that He had come to set aside its requirements. He knew that spies stood ready to seize upon every word that might be wrested to serve their purpose. He knew the prejudice that existed in the minds of many of His hearers, and He said nothing to unsettle their faith in the religion and institutions that had been committed to them through Moses. Christ Himself had given both the moral and the ceremonial law. He did not come to destroy confidence in His own instruction. It was because of His great reverence for the law and the prophets, that He sought to break through the wall of traditional requirements which hemmed in the Jews. While He set aside their false interpretations of the law, He carefully guarded His disciples against yielding up the vital truths committed to the Hebrews.  

snipped . .
If there are other questions, dear brother, that you feel I have not responded to, I am sorry. Point them out and I will respond.

Daniel:  It has been sometime since I have read anything here and find this subject quite fascinating.  I hope y'all don't mind if I throw my two cents into this mix.  First off I am not sure if anyone has posted this comment or not for the SOP.  

Precepts Given to Guard Decalogue. - In consequence of continual transgression, the moral law was repeated in awful grandeur from Sinai.  Christ gave to Moses religious precepts, which were to govern everyday life.  These statutes were explicitly given to guard the Ten Commandments.  THEY WERE NOT SHADOWY TYPES TO PASS AWAY WITH THE DEATH OF CHRIST.  They were to be binding upon men in every age as long as time should last.  These commands were enforced by the power of the moral law, and they clearly and definitely explained that law (ST April 15, 1875). Ellen G. White Comments - Exodus 20:3 pg 1104 SDA Commentaries Vol. 1

Secondly we find God speaking through Malachi:

1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts. 4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, WITH the statutes and judgments. (Malachi 4:1-4)

Through Isaiah God tells us WHY this earth will be destroyed with plagues:

1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. 2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. 3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word. 4 The earth mourneth [and] fadeth away, the world languisheth [and] fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish. 5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. 6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. (Isaiah 24:1-6)

We find in Daniel exactly what would be "nailed to the cross" other than Christ Himself:

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Daniel 9:27)

Mrs. White confirms this completely.  When one does a "word study" on what she meant by "ceremonial laws" that were nailed to the cross one finds she says the exact same thing Daniel said.

I do believe God is calling His people back, asking as to remember His statutes and judgments as admonished in Malachi 4.  Early on in this discussion or in another re feast days someone posted it was impossible to know when the fall feast could or should take place.  I do believe God honors our best efforts to honor Him, even if we are ignorant of when.


To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.    (Isaiah 8:20)


Daniel

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #365 on: May 09, 2010, 06:13:35 AM »
Brother Tim, if we were take this as truth, it would make shipwreck of our faith. We know that the ceremonial law has ended. We also know that the civil statutes for Israel are no longer binding. We are not to stone Sabbath breakers, nor those who are gluttons. We are not to sacrifice lambs and doves any longer.

In your effort to justify the keeping of the feast days, you appear to be looking for statements to do so? Your feast keeping friends have done this very thing until they have confused many in the church. The law given to Israel can be divided into three kinds of law. The moral law which is still binding.

The civil law which was for Israel, a  nation under the direct rule of god, a theocracy. The penalties proscribed no longer are binding. Societies today are to decide the penalty for gluttony, if there is to be one.

The ceremonial law, which was to teach about the plan of salvation, ceased at the cross to be binding.  Not all types had met their anti-types. They are shadows of things to come. Most have been fulfilled. Some have a secondary fulfillment. Because they reveal the future, does not mean that the church is to follow the law of the ceremonies. It was a lesson book that we can still learn from without dressing up and keeping a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;  Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

The seventh-day Sabbath is a moral law, but the ceremonial Sabbaths and other feast days have been "blotted out".  The history of Israel is for us whom the ends of the world have come upon. How are we to know where our high priest is today if we do not understand the shadows that teach us not not only where He is, but what He is doing.

From the New Testament Book of Hebrews we are given much light.  It reveals that we are to understand the lessons from the Hebrew economy. We are not to act out the ceremonies, but we are to understand the significance of the ceremonies.

[It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.  
  9:24   For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:  
  9:25   Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;  
  9:26   For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.  
  9:27   And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:  
  9:28   So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.  


We can now better understand why this statement was made: The past--the history of the Jewish economy from beginning to the end--instead of being spoken of contemptuously and sneered at as "the dark ages," will reveal light, and still more light, as it is studied. Many have no idea that the ceremonial law revealed the plan of salvation. Many "sneer" at the Old Testament. They want the lessons to be nailed to the cross as well as the laws. So sad! And, they rebel against the idea that the moral law is still binding. All who believe this lose great blessings by not understanding the moral laws that we are to live by. By so doing we find our happiness. It is hard when one does not live within the laws of our being.

There is a wide separation between the moral and the ceremonial law. We may all come to see this. It is my prayer that our discussion is helping many to better understand the Old Testament Scripture and thus much of the New Testament which is dependent upon Old Testament writings.  I have given a good example from the Book of Hebrews. Those ignorant of the Hebrew economy cannot understand the meaning of these passages and many others like them.


Daniel:  Can you give us a verse that states God's Laws, in the NT, have been nailed to the cross?  When Mrs. White speaks of the ceremonial law she speaks of the sacrifices and oblations, nothing else.  God's salvational calendar IS outlined in the annual feast and it is because many do not study them we find many being blown about by many winds of doctrine.  God, in the last chapter of malachi IS calling us back to remember the statutes and judgments given to Moses.  Why should we not do so?
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.    (Isaiah 8:20)


Wally

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #366 on: May 09, 2010, 09:57:09 AM »
When you speak of "statutes and judgments" just what do you mean?  Some of the Mosaic laws pertained to an agricultural people living under a theocracy, in a Mediterranean climate.  They were to kindle no fire on the Sabbath.  I've not found a text where that law was abolished.  Must I keep my house (which is heated with wood) freezing cold on winter days to avoid breaking the Sabbath?  What about wearing clothing that contains linen and wool?  Or sowing my garden with "mingled seed?"  Shall I execute my children if I find that they have adopted a pagan religion, such as Buddhism?  Shall I also execute any Wiccan with whom I come in contact?  We are not under a theocracy.  When the question was put to the NT church as to how much of the law the Gentiles were to observe, they came up with only a few things:  For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication:  from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well.  Fare ye well.  Acts 15:28, 29.  Why would we want to add burdens which the Holy Spirit was unwilling to add?

Don't forget that much of what the prophets said in relation to Israel was conditional, dependent upon their fidelity to God.  When they were rejected as a nation, those prophecies could not be literally fulfilled in a literal Israel, but will be fulfilled symbolically by spiritual Israel.  Malachi was speaking to literal Israel before the advent of the Messiah.  One must take that context into consideration when interpreting what he meant by "the statutes and judgments."  Part of Mal. 4 is a prediction of what would have happened had Israel remained faithful, but since they failed, it must be understood in in a way that is more symbolic.  I hardly think that in the new earth we will be walking on the literal ashes of the wicked.  But, since Jerusalem and the temple were supposed to stand forever, the destruction of the wicked would most likely have been accomplished in a somewhat different fashion than what we expect will happen at the end of the millennium.

I am familiar with the statement from the SOP which you quoted.  She does not elaborate on that, and I think we must be careful that we do not read into it more than she meant.
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants:  we have done that which was our duty to do.  Luke 17:10

Richard Myers

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #367 on: May 09, 2010, 10:56:28 PM »
It has been sometime since I have read anything here and find this subject quite fascinating.  I hope y'all don't mind if I throw my two cents into this mix.  First off I am not sure if anyone has posted this comment or not for the SOP.  

Of course we don't mind. We restrict "teaching" to those truths we hold to be truth, but we want to hear what others believe and where there is disagreement, we invite questions as to why we believe what we do. The church has always taught that the feast days are ceremonial and have ended. That does not assure it correct, but from our study with feast keepers we agree with the church's position. The basis for our understanding is indeed found in this topic. It is broader than the feast days an does shine light on the fact that most err in their wanting to eliminate many "moral" laws that are found in the statutes and judgments. The purpose of this thread is to bring to light the principles upon which we may separate the moral laws from those which are no longer binding either because they were ceremonial or they were "civil" law for Israel a theocracy.

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Precepts Given to Guard Decalogue. - In consequence of continual transgression, the moral law was repeated in awful grandeur from Sinai.  Christ gave to Moses religious precepts, which were to govern everyday life.  These statutes were explicitly given to guard the Ten Commandments.  THEY WERE NOT SHADOWY TYPES TO PASS AWAY WITH THE DEATH OF CHRIST.  They were to be binding upon men in every age as long as time should last.  These commands were enforced by the power of the moral law, and they clearly and definitely explained that law (ST April 15, 1875). Ellen G. White Comments - Exodus 20:3 pg 1104 SDA Commentaries Vol. 1

Secondly we find God speaking through Malachi:

1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts. 4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, WITH the statutes and judgments. (Malachi 4:1-4)

Through Isaiah God tells us WHY this earth will be destroyed with plagues:

1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. 2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. 3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word. 4 The earth mourneth [and] fadeth away, the world languisheth [and] fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish. 5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. 6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. (Isaiah 24:1-6)

We find in Daniel exactly what would be "nailed to the cross" other than Christ Himself:

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Daniel 9:27)

All that you have shared is truth, Brother Daniel. But, while all squares are indeed rectangles, not all rectangles are squares. You may not conclude from these statements that all statutes and judgments are still binding. Neither may we teach that only the sacrifices were to cease. There is always more than we usually can understand. The Bible is larger than a few verses.

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I do believe God is calling His people back, asking as to remember His statutes and judgments as admonished in Malachi 4.

God is indeed bringing us to an understanding that some of the statutes and judgments remain binding because they are "moral" law, not ceremonial or civil. These laws are meant to be a blessing to us. We ought to pray and study to better understand the laws of our being. One such example that the church has taught is still binding from these statutes are the health laws. There are others that we have not understood, but our study ought to help us see which are moral and which are not.

Quote
Early on in this discussion or in another re feast days someone posted it was impossible to know when the fall feast could or should take place.  I do believe God honors our best efforts to honor Him, even if we are ignorant of when.

We have a topic on "Why Christians do not Keep the Feast Days where this is discussed. Let us keep this present discussion on topic. We do not want to discuss the keeping of the feast days here. The principles upon which we are to understand moral versus ceremonial and civil is the object of this discussion. We have presented the truth that there are ceremonial laws, moral laws, and civil laws. We are told that the line between moral and ceremonial is broad. I agree. There is no reason to be confused. The civil laws pertained to Israel a theocracy and from what I understand, they were associated with penalties. Many of these civil statutes were based on moral law, but again, they were dealing with a nation under the direct rule of God and therefore are not binding today. This does not mean that a nation could not adapt some of these these statutes. But, they are not to be seen as binding as are the "moral" statutes.

Again, our study here is to discern the principles by which we may classify the laws given in the Bible. Many churches teach a rejection of Old Testament laws as being under the Old Covenant and therefore no longer binding. This is far removed from the truth. It is not hard to understand that the ten commandments are still binding. They did not come into being with Israel, but are moral in nature and predated the nation Israel. The only real problem with the ten commandments for most who object is the Sabbath, which was given at creation for all mankind. To obscure this and the gospel, there has been created a "new theology" that not only attempts to obscure the Sabbath, but also makes an excuse for sin.

Going beyond the ten commandments, we find some other "moral" laws given to Israel in statutes and judgments that are not "shadows" or civil laws, but in fact moral in nature and are for our guidance in life. To break these moral laws is to suffer some kind of loss. It is like eating an unclean food, we will suffer. God gave moral laws that we would not suffer. He gave ceremonial laws that we would learn of the plan of salvation. They were shadows of the reality. Not all have been fulfilled, but the shadows were to cease at the cross. We are told they were "nailed to the cross". We do not keep the Passover, the Lord's Supper has taken its place. We do not sacrifice a lamb, the Lamb, Jesus Christ, has been sacrificed.    

This is not an easy subject because of the error being taught throughout Christian churches. The Bible is to be our study. In it we find truth. Let us try to take what we have been taught and compare it to Scripture. As Bereans, we do not trust our faith to others. As Protestants, we must look to the Bible, not to fallible man for our understanding. He who converses with God through the Scriptures will be ennobled and sanctified. As he reads the inspired record of the Savior's love, his heart is melted in tenderness and contrition. He is filled with a desire to be like the Master, to live a life of loving service.  

Type has met anti-type in the death of God's Son. Christ has risen from the dead, proclaiming over the tomb, "I am the resurrection and the life." He has sent His Spirit into our world to bring all things to our remembrance. By a miracle of His power He has preserved His written Word through the ages. Shall we not, then, make this Word our constant study, learning from it God's purpose for us? As we do this, we shall come into unity of doctrine as well as unity of Spirit.

Brother Daniel, do you agree that there are three sets of laws we are studying that were given to Israel? Can we classify all law in Scripture as "moral", "ceremonial", or "civil"? And if so, can we say that only moral law is still binding?

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Ed Sutton

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #368 on: May 18, 2010, 09:56:01 AM »
  In this chapter -   AA - The Acts of the Apostles (1911)   Chap. 19 - Jew and Gentile , is given direct detailed Holy Ghost sent commentary, explanation, and like Scripture ..... 2nd Timothy 16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:17  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And why is that ?  Because God saw what we now see, the same evils existing in the days of the Apostles is not uprooted and quenched, but alive and working again to leaven the whole body of believers in the SDA faith.

But as the leaven of multifaceted refusal to believe and obey God that grows into open wickedness matures,  it develops into open revolt.  Therefore the continuing commands of God through Paul to Timothy revive their first century insistancy and urgency.

In actions without words, as there was no knowledge of any such conversation between ever them , in actions and the way things worked out - was not the life and work of Joe Crews toward a younger Doug Batchlor - mirrioring these words from Paul facing execution - to Timothy.

2nd Timothy 4:
1  I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2  Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5  But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6  For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7  I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8  Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Three evils are forcibly brought to mind while reading this chapter - They have returned because their author Satan sees how well they weakened belivers in the first century.

1. Denial of Christ's Messiahship - return to amalgamated psudo judiasm - ceremonialism readopted after Divine directions command otherwise.  Notice the paragraphs that refer to it.   Satan's desire is creating disconnections from Christ every way he can, as God will not stop actions of free will, persistantly followed - even to do this evil that  once even carried Barnabus away for a short time, except that Paul stood in the breach.

2.  LSU - The tares in assendency and the Gospel Order of the denomination imitating Eli toward his apostate sons in the priesthood weakening the nation and causing God's name & faith to be blasphemed among those who delight to do so.

3. Rebellion against the Worldwide Church decision that harmonized with Scripture, setting women above God's place for men, thus creating precedents that could open doors for Mary worship in the SDA faith among converts from that error who are still disposed in heart to worship various mother godesses.    

The worship of the gueen of Heaven, insulted Heaven so well in ancient centuries, that Satan is pleased to revive it, even if in stages.
Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}

Peter L

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #369 on: March 02, 2013, 11:49:41 PM »
When the Law is mentioned in the Bible it does not only refer to the 10 commandments but, refers to the Law as a whole with the ceremonial laws, levitical Laws, health laws, 10 commandments.
Hebrews 7:5 KJV
(5) And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

The law in this verse is not talking about the 10 commandments, but is referring to the law of tithe to the priesthood.

Hebrews 7:28 KJV
(28) For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

The law in this verse is the law of the priesthood and again not the 10 commandments.

Hebrews 8:4 KJV
(4) For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

The law in this text again is not the 10 commandments but the law of offering gifts and sacrifices given to the levitical priests. So from these few verses we can see that when the Law is mentioned it is not just referring to the 10 commandments, but the law as a whole.
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Peter L

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #370 on: March 02, 2013, 11:51:47 PM »
Isaiah 8:20 KJV
(20) To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

H8451
תּרה תּורה
trh trh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

The Law in this verse is torah which is the whole law not just the 10 commandments. This verse says anyone not teaching according to the Torah is not teaching God's light.

Matthew 5:17 KJV
(17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus said He did not come to destroy the Torah. From this is must be noted that everything Jesus taught was in accordance with the Torah.
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Richard Myers

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #371 on: March 03, 2013, 06:43:21 AM »
When the Law is mentioned in the Bible it does not only refer to the 10 commandments but, refers to the Law as a whole with the ceremonial laws, levitical Laws, health laws, 10 commandments.

Brother Peter, from my understanding, when the law is mentioned it does not always refer to the law as a whole. And your examples reveal this. I do not understand.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Peter L

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #372 on: March 04, 2013, 12:23:45 AM »
I have been thinking about the Law and trying to understand more, so I have come here to mention these things to hear others thoughts. I have been having discussions with non SDA about the Law. Jesus when He said it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, people use that as an excuse for eating outside of the diet God has given us.

Jesus said He did not come to destroy the Law, that means since if the Law is the Torah then He could not have meant that we can eat outside of the diet God has given us. We know that some people misquote what Jesus said but, if Jesus did not come to destroy the Torah then other questions come to mind.
Revelation 3:20
(20)  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Richard Myers

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #373 on: March 04, 2013, 08:02:15 AM »
Good morning, Peter. You will appreciate this thread.  Read through it and you will see some of the difficulties in understanding what is still binding and what is not. Understanding the division in the laws will help. But, adding to the confusion is the New Testament teaching of Paul where he is attempting to explain to Pharisees and those under their influence that one is not saved by the keeping of the law. He also had to deal with the Pharisaical attitude towards the ceremonial law which was no longer binding. These three areas of law when rightly understood help us to work with those who have been deceived about the law and the gospel.  Paul's teaching is used in an attempt to teach that one is saved while sinning, that we are no longer under the law, but under grace. 
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

wigina

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #374 on: June 02, 2013, 08:29:29 PM »
I did not know why we ro not eat pork or other meats as outlined in the bible. Infact when asked why i would always say the bible prohibits it until I went to study medical sciences and until such a time that it was clearly revealed to me. Now I know why God in his wisdom gave out all those elaborate laws! You see Israel craved for meat yet they had the option of food from heaven. Now that we also crave for meat yet we know that we can have every thing gotten from meat(nutrient) in plants woe unto us. The diseases that affect all the animals that we are told not to partake of are  those referred to as ''non-human diseases. Thses may then kead to terrible epidemics. I think therefore that our sacrifice is Jesus. But the law he gave moral health or otherwise must be followed. When  you marry your sister then what happens? Recessive genes are morr often expressed and deformity of the offspring is the result. It is not a blind faith that we have but an enightened one! Thats why our punishment if we do not conform will be severe! The Lord will say and justly so ''I gave them the law, but you I gave the explanations thereof and you did not follow to, how should I deal with you oh generation of vipers''.
I will always pray and make sure that in Christ I am and will not fall into the category....

Richard Myers

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #375 on: June 02, 2013, 09:27:33 PM »
That is right, wigina. God did not always tell us why we are to act in a certain way. He just told us what is best for us and expected us to believe Him. Now, we find out many of the reason why. When reading the Bible, we find that when man began eating meat, his life span dropped from over 900 years to less than a hundred in a short span of time. Today, cancer and many other diseases we are discovering can be transmitted from animal products. But, few will believe that the diet God gave in the beginning is best. Few will take control of their passions and appetites. Why? Because the mind not given to Christ has no power to do what right because it is right. Our fallen human natures are corrupt and one must be born of His Spirit to do any good thing. God's law is for our good. Blessings will attend all who walk in the light.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

wigina

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #376 on: June 02, 2013, 10:08:32 PM »
Gods people are always a minority thats whywhen the correct diet is followed the people are given names! When you say you are an Adventist you are readily labelled ''out of the ordinary'' its so amazing! But thank God He already knew this and informed us that we are a peculiar people.

Richard Myers

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Re: Binding Aspects of the Mosaic Law
« Reply #377 on: June 03, 2013, 10:36:34 AM »
Amen! And above everything else, what identifies us, that separates us from others is the Sabbath. There are many true Christians filled with His Spirit in other churches, so it is not the Spirit of God that separates us from others, but our keeping of the Sabbath is the sign that we are His church. It led me into the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and so it will do for others also.

 "Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you." Exodus 31:13. "Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them." Ezekiel 20:12. "And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God." Ezekiel 20:20.




Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.