Author Topic: The Book of Romans  (Read 17562 times)

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Mimi

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Re: The Book of Romans
« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2009, 10:05:10 AM »
He is best known for "contending for the faith." But as for him, he declares himself to have been "a Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless."
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Richard Myers

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Re: The Book of Romans
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2009, 11:43:28 AM »
As is often the case, our personal history is how we relate to things. It is no different with Scripture. Saul had been deceived. He was sincere, but before his conversion on the road to Damascus, he was working against God. After his conversion, he was very disturbed that he had been used by Satan to hurt God and His people. He called himself the "chief of sinners". He indeed had been a chief Pharisee. He was "blameless" when it came to keeping the law. But, it was all a deception.

So....having seen into Saul's life history, what did this mean to his teaching effort? Was it pointed in a particular direction? Did he have an inside view of how Satan was working in his day?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Mimi

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Re: The Book of Romans
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2009, 01:50:42 PM »
Oh, that he did! He knew well the system of the priests and pharisees because he had just stepped out of it. He was desperate that the Jews would experience what he had. He knew they saw the prophecies of Jesus as the Messiah as he now did and could not refute them but the more he plead and preached, the more they hated him.

He now fully believed that when his friends and former associates heard the circumstances of his marvelous conversion, and saw how changed he was from the proud Pharisee who persecuted and delivered unto death those who believed in Jesus as the Son of God, they would also become convicted of their error, and join the ranks of the believers.

Finally Jesus personally told him to go, telling him of the new field he had for him. Even then, Paul was reluctant to leave Jerusalem because they had greater light than those around them, yet they shut out the only One who could save them.

Here, Paul tells them they are so quick to condemn the Gentiles, yet they are sorely guilty of the same thing.

 
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Richard Myers

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Re: The Book of Romans
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2009, 06:01:52 PM »
Yes, Paul was a product of both his past and the new faith he now embraced as he wrote to the Romans. He was very unhappy that he had been deceived and he saw in his fellow Pharisees that which he himself experienced. But, his real problem was not with the Jews, but the Christians who were Jews. He saw what Satan was doing through them when they were not abiding in Christ. He was not silent as he saw Satan's work prosper in the churches he had been laboring with. Paul was not a "dumb dog" that would not bark. He spoke out. He had an "attitude" that guided his letters to the churches. He was jealous for Christ and His Word. He was a real Christian and he knew the power of the Spirit to change the heart. He knew that the law of God was holy, just, and good. But, having seen the failure of the law to give him victory over sin, he was not going to sit back and watch the Jews exalt that which was designed to condemn. While the law is holy, it has no power to save. Paul understood this while many Jews did not. They were like some today who preach "the law, the law, the law" until they are as dry as the Hills of Gilboa.

His experience and his understanding of the power of grace is reflected in his letters to the churches. He is working hard to present Christ and Him crucified that all would look to Jesus for the solution to their sickness. Note carefully that Paul never ever disparaged the law, but rather stated it was holy just and good. He taught that when Jesus is given control in our lives that the law of God is written on the heart. Unlike the Pharisee who did not surrender to God, and therefore only paid lip service to the law, the Christian who abides in Christ renders true obedience to the law of God from the heart.

This is the "attitude" that Paul had. He hated lies. He hated the work of those who were "teaching" new converts that they needed to keep all the law, including the ceremonial law which had ceased at the cross. He hated the teaching that left out the need of the sinner to receive the Spirit of the Living God. This we see over and over as we read the epistles of Paul. It is a foundation of his teaching in the Book of Romans.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Cop

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Re: The Book of Romans
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2014, 08:57:30 AM »
Paul has shown in chapter 1 that the Gentiles, as a whole, were degenerate sinners and deserving of God's wrath. But his object is not merely to condemn that segment of humanity. He used it as a diplomatic approach to prove to the other segment, the Jews, that they also were sinners and just as worthy of judgement. This is an important step to achieve his primary object and that was to lead the Jews to see their need of salvation; to see that salvation comes, not through their descent from Abraham, or by a careful, meticulous adherence to law, but only through Jesus Christ.

"Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things." Obviously Paul is not here thinking of judging in the sense of weighting an individual in an attempt to discover his sincerity, honesty, or worth. This we must do often. He has in mind judging with a view to condemning a person.

Like a lawyer, Paul has been making his case against what may appear to be only accused...the Gentile. And the Jewish judge, sitting high and complacent on his judgement seat (and this does not exclude the Gentile judge), is nodding his complete agreement with the verdict of guilty passed upon the Gentiles. But now, having set his trap, Paul springs it. Turning to the judge, he says, "You agree that the gentiles are wicked, and thus worthy of the wrath of God. In that case you must also agree that you deserve the same judgement, for you who passes judgementon them are guilty of the same evils." The Jews considered themselves as the chosen people of God, even after they had rejected Him and He had rejected them. They thought of themselves as the only people in the world that God loved. And they, like the god they had created in their hearts, despised the wicked Gentiles.

In the Jews' attitude toward the Gentiles we see a common failingof all humanity. It seems to be a part of human nature to attack in the person of others, faults in ourselves which we refuse to admit. "Those who are most ready to excuse or justify themselves in sin are often most severe in judging and condemning others. There are many today, like Saul, bringing upon themselves the displeasure of God. They reject counsel and despise reproof. Even when convinced that the Lord is not with them, they refuse to see in themselves ... the cause of their trouble. How many cherish a proud, boastful spirit, while they indulge in cruel judgment or severe rebuke of others really better in heart and life than they. Well would it be for such self-constituted judges to ponder those words of Christ: “With what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged; and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again”. {St 08-17-1882}.
My religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me....That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave."
— Stonewall Jackson

Cop

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Re: The Book of Romans
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2014, 10:02:12 AM »
[Lets get this discussion going again. Maybe this will stir us up!]<P>

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;" v.18<P>As Paul starts his message to the Christian, it all begins with this statement in verse 18. The gospel message begins with a statement about the wrath of God. Wow...that’s totally opposed to our ideal of what evangelistic technique is supposed to be! Most of our evangelism purposely avoids that theme. We talk about love and we talk about happiness and we talk about abundant living and we talk about forgiveness and we talk about joy, we talk about peace. And we offer people all of those things and ask them if they wouldn’t like to have all of those things. We tell them of the prophecies and the 'Fundamental Beliefs', but we really very rarely talk about judgment other than to say there is a judgment. I wonder, in all of the times that you have presented the gospel to somebody, how many times did you introduce it by saying (as does Paul): By the way, did you know that the wrath of God is revealed against your ungodliness? I suppose Dale Carnegie has even affected our gospel presentation. We are in such a hurry to win friends and influence people that sometimes we bypass the starting point that Paul proclaims.<P>From Paul’s perspective, fear becomes the first pressure applied to evil men. He lets them know about the wrath of God. In fact, the word love, doesn’t appear in the Roman epistle until the fifth chapter.<P>The wrath of God is a hard subject. Yet it is the beginning of Paul's gospel to the Church in Rome and is a good preparation for the announcement of grace. How can people under­stand anything about love if they don’t understand God’s hate? How can they understand anything about His grace if they don’t know about His law? How can they understand forgiveness if they don’t understand the penalty of sin. Men cannot understand. They cannot seek grace and salvation unless they are affected with the dread of the wrath of God that is upon them. Unless men sense they are in grave danger there’s no desire in them to change, no seeking after salvation.<P>Sometimes when you talk about God being a God of wrath, some people are disturbed, or even become angry. They don’t understand how God can be a God of anger and God can be a God of wrath and God can be a God of fury, a God of terror. But that’s because they don’t understand God. <P>God is perfection. God’s attributes are balanced in His divine perfection. And they are perfectly balanced. If God did not have wrath and God did not have anger then He would not be God. God is perfect in love, on the one hand, and He is equally perfect in hate, on the other hand. Just as totally as He loves, so totally does He hate. As His love is unmixed, so is His hate unmixed. Of Christ, it says in Hebrews 1:9, “Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity.” And there is that perfect balance in the nature of God. One of the tragedies of Christianity in our time is a failure to preach the hatred of God, the judgment of God. We’re so sweet. We’re so sentimental. We’re so kind and mushy in our Christianity (or, as EGW calls it...Goody-goody Religion). When is the last time you heard a new song on the wrath of God? Heard one lately? I haven’t. But God's wrath is part of God's nature.<P>
<p

My religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me....That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave."
— Stonewall Jackson

Cop

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Re: The Book of Romans
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2014, 10:12:38 AM »
Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;"

What is meant by "the wrath of God"? The principle words translated from the Greek into the English word 'wrath' in the N.T. of the Recieved Text are thumos and orge. Thumos descibes a fierce, strong outburst of indignation that is soon past as in Is. 26:20. It is used with reference to God only of the final punishment of the wicked (Re. 14:10; 16;19; 19:15; etc.). Orge, on the other hand, is a deep settled, enduring attitude of outrage. The term used in this verse is this latter one.

We have to remember, the words and definitions discussed here are of human language and understanding, which are corrupted because of sin. We must not think of God as being wrathful as men become wrathful. God's orge, wrath, is a holy attitude directed towards for his reformation and reconcilliation, not for vengence. The divine wrath of God is the natural expression of His divine nature, which is absolute holiness, manifesting itself against the willful, high-handed, deliberate, inexcusable sin and iniquity of mankind. "God's anger springs from eternal principles of righteouness and benevolence.", according to SDA Bible Commentary on Judges 2:20. God’s wrath is always regarded in the Scripture as the just, proper, and natural expression of His holiness and righteousness. We can think of it as the tearful indignation of one who loves directed toward the one loved, who is delibertately doing wrong and destroying himself (Mt. 23:37).

We have to remember that there are definite and universal moral laws just as there are physical laws which control the universe, and the violation of these physical laws often bring immediate and automatic results. Man easily forgets this because the violation of God's moral laws do not usually bring immediate penalties. God seldom manifests His wrath directly, and then only when man's wickednesshas reached such heights that He is compelled to, such as at the time of the Flood and at the destruction of Sodom. The historian J.A. Froude said, "One lesson, and one lesson only, history may be said to repeat with distinctness: that the world is built somehow on moral foundations; that in the long run it is well with the good; in the long run it is ill with the wicked."

So we may say that the effects of the sinner's transgressions in his life are the natural and automatic outworking of God's "wrath" operating through His moral law in the universe. He is punished through his sins as the result of his turning from God, in which way God permits him to have his own way (Ho. 13:9; De. 32:20). This is clearly implied by Paul's use, three times in this chapter, of the term,"God gave them up [or over]..."
My religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me....That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave."
— Stonewall Jackson

Richard Myers

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Re: The Book of Romans
« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2014, 02:54:03 PM »
Amen, Cop. God's justice is no less a part of His character than is grace. When the wicked are destroyed, it is the result of their choice to reject God's love. It is a strange act for God to punish the wicked, there is no benefit to accrue to the wicked by them suffering burning for every sin. It is called justice.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Cop

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Re: The Book of Romans
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2014, 11:28:45 AM »
...against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,...

Ungodliness is the root; unrighteousness is the fruit. The first is an attitude of impiety toward truth and God, the other is the outworking of that attitude. In the verses that follow, Paul describes the development of this impious attitude in various acts of unrighteousness.


...who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

"Hold" is here used in the sense of holding back or to restrain. Paul is saying that men are convinced that there is a God, but they do not want to believe it. So they suppress their convictions by practicing iniquity. To illustrate man's unwillingness to admit truth, we have the story of the skeptic who, having debated with another the pros and cons of the resurrection, finally stated, "I agree that no hypothesis except the resurrection explains the facts; but I refuse to accept it and I always will."
My religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me....That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave."
— Stonewall Jackson