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M.A. Crawford

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Rebaptism And Communion
« on: August 11, 2003, 05:02:00 PM »
An individual, by way of a private e-mail message, asked me to respond to the following question:

"Why do we re-baptize when I've heard over and over again that is what Communion is every three months?"

I believe the Seventh-day Adventist Church engages in and endorses rebaptism for the following reason:

"And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have you received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 19:1-5.

Notice in verse three when Paul asked the discples unto what had they been baptized, they replied: "Unto John's baptism." Paul goes on to explain in verse four that John baptized with the baptism of repentance telling the people that they should believe on the one who was to come after him, namely Jesus Christ. And verse five tells us that when these disciples heard this THEY WERE BAPTIZED AGAIN, this time, in the name of Jesus Christ.

The institution of the Lord's Supper, or Holy Communion, is documented in the New Testament in four places: Matthew 26:26-30; Mark 14:22-26; Luke 22:19, 20; and 1 Corinthians 11:23-26. In no instance is there any inference that rebaptism is what Communion is each time Communion is engaged in. The Bible very clearly tells us what the Lord's Supper symbolizes:

"For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew [margin, proclaim] the Lord's death till he come." 1 Corinthians 11:26.

The ordinance of foot-washing, which is a part of Holy Communion in the Seventh-day Adventist Church, has traditionally been held by many as a "mini" rebaptism each time it is performed. The Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual on page 74, in quoting Ellen G. White from The Desire of Ages, states the following:

"'Now having washed the disciples' feet, He said, "'I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.'" In these words Christ was not merely enjoining the practice of hospitality. More was meant than the washing of the feet of guests to remove the dust of travel. Christ was here instituting a religious service. By the act of our Lord this...ceremony was made a consecrated ordinance. It was to be observed by the disciples, THAT THEY MIGHT EVER KEEP IN MIND HIS LESSONS OF HUMILITY AND SERVICE (Emphasis mine throughout).

"'This ordinance is Christ's appointed preparation for the sacramental service. While pride, variance, and strife for supremacy are cherished, the heart cannot enter into fellowship with Christ. We are not prepared to receive the communion of His body and His blood. Therefore it was that Jesus appointed THE MEMORIAL OF HIS HUMILITY to be first observed.'--The Desire of Ages, p. 650."

As can be clearly seen from The Desire of Ages, in instituting the ordinance of foot-washing, Christ was instituting a religious service to be known as the ordinance of humility. Those who refer to foot-washing--or to any aspect of Holy Communion, for that matter--as a type of rebaptism do so out of tradition.

In reference to rebaptism by immersion, Mrs. White says the following:

"Not to Be Made a Testing Question for New Believers.--The subject of rebaptism should be handled with the greatest of care....Those who place the subject of rebaptism in the front, making it of as such as much importance as the Sabbath question, are not leaving the right impression upon the minds and correctly representing the subject....

"Those who lift the cross of the Sabbath have a tremendous battle to fight with self and with selfish interests which would interpose between their souls and God. Then when they have taken this great step and their feet have been planted upon the platform of eternal truth, they must have time to become accustomed to their new position, and not be hurried on the question of rebaptism. No one should become a conscience for another or urge and press rebaptism.

"Let none of our zealous brethren overdo this matter. They will be in danger of getting before the Lord and making tests for others which the Lord has not bidden them to make. It is not the work of any of our teachers to urge rebaptism upon anyone. It is their business to lay down the great principles of Bible truths, especially is this the case in regard to rebaptism. Then let God do the work of convincing the mind and heart..." (Ev 372-374).

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Richard Myers

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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2003, 10:09:00 PM »
Very well put, Brother Crawford.

As our brother shared there is a principle involved here that is important. "It is their business to lay down the great principles of Bible truths, especially is this the         case in regard to rebaptism."

We are not to look at the ordinance of foot washing as rebaptism. It is true that after one sins the foot washing will give opportunity to repent, but baptism is much more. If we look at what baptism is we may then better understand why the need for rebaptism.

Many who were baptised when they joined the church or even before did not understand the new birth experience and were baptised prematurely. They did not die to self and thus their baptism was not what is should have been. Their Christian life did not manifest the witness it should have. Somewhere along the line the Spirit came with greater appeal and the heart was finally surrendered fully. Would there not be a need for rebaptism?

When we join with the church and accept the name of Christ we are then a walking lesson book in our families and in the world. We are watched and when we are called Christian and do not act Christian, then we are given the opportunity to stand in front of the world and share our testimony when we truly become a faithful witness.

It is a personal decision as to when this is appropriate most of the time. In some cases when a church member has been disciplined or disfellowshipped, it may be required.

There are times when one was truly converted prior to baptism and he falls away from his first love and over a protracted period of time misrepresents the Saviour. Also, some are convicted that a sin or sins are of such a nature that they must make a public statement of their love of Christ after they are brought to repentance. Again, this is a very personal decision and no pressure is to be brought to bear on any person to receive baptism. It is to be a joyful occasion when the Christian gives testimony publicly of his love for Jesus and his decision to follow Him at all costs.

By so doing, reproach is removed from the church and the Saviour as much as possible. God's ways are different than the ways of the world. Confession and repentance is the acceptance of the cleansing blood of Christ and there is joy in heaven when one soul stands in front of the world and confesses Jesus as Saviour.

Many in the church are in need of rebaptism. But, only the Spirit of God can reveal this. It is important that the baptism be real and that self has died and Christ does live within. If this is not yet the case, there is no reason why it cannot be. Jesus calls us today to come to Him just as we are. As we feed upon Him, we learn of Him and His love. We accept this love and His grace subdues our sins. We see our need and His ability to help us in every area of life. He becomes our everything and we say "I will go where ever you want me to dear Lord and I will do what ever you want me to do. We hold nothing back from Jesus. Our love is full. And...we want to stand in front of the church and the world and say so.

Let none discourage such a soul from revealing to the church and the world the inward change that has occured.

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2003, 01:59:00 PM »
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:19, 20.

1. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations."

The Seventh-day Adventist Church has become quite a large organization with a worldwide membership fast approaching 14 million members. As a result, it takes many millions of dollars each year to pay its employees, and to operate the vast network of conferences, unions, and divisions that engage in educational, health-related, and the various and sundry ministerial functions that are designed to nurture the thousands of churches and companies already formed, while, at the same time, continuing to place emphasis on "bringing them in." I want to comment briefly on these last two emphases (nurturing churches and companies and bringing in new converts).

2. "Baptizing them."

Certainly, without a doubt, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the global church mission of evangelizing and proselytizing. As a matter of fact, in Matthew 28:19, 20, we have given unto us the great Gospel Commission by Jesus Christ Himself. But notice very carefully THE ORDER in which Jesus gave this Commission. Jesus said to go into all the world and (1) TEACH ALL NATIONS, and then (2) BAPTIZE THEM! I believe this is the major problem in the Seventh-day Adventist Church today. Many who are being baptized into the church today are being BAPTIZED TOO FAST because they are not being adequately taught before baptism (1) THE GREAT PRINCIPLES OF SALVATION IN THE BIBLE, and (2) they are almost totally illiterate of the 27 Fundamental Beliefs upon which this church is based.

3. "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you."

It is nice to see the many millions of baptized members we have throughout the world church, but, from what I know about the Bible, I very firmly believe that it is CONTRARY TO THE WILL OF GOD to bring in millions and millions of individuals into this church only to have many of them END UP BEING LOST for lacking in those things they need to know. WE ALL MUST DO OUR PART IN TEACHING OUR PEOPLE!! This is not just the responsibility of pastors and elders. Nurturing and mentoring our people IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF US ALL:

"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. BY THIS SHALL ALL MEN KNOW THAT YE ARE MY DISCIPLES, if ye have love one another." John 13:34, 35.

And we DEMONSTRATE THAT LOVE when we are WILLING TO HELP THOSE who are newly baptized within our various congregations to "grow in grace and in the knowledge our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 3:18). And not just with the newly baptized. What is needed RIGHT NOW in our churches around the world MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE IS THE LOVE OF GOD to be seen demonstrated in our lives as we interact with one another:  

"Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another." 1 John 4:11.

"...for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, that he who loveth God love his brother also. 1 John 4:20, 21.

It is very clear to me that the only way we can prove we love one another as Christians IS BY OUR ACTIONS!! Talk is cheap. As the end of time fast approaches, what we SORELY NEED in our churches RIGHT NOW is expressed in the words of this song:

"God send us men whose aim 'twill be,
Not to defend some ancient creed,
BUT TO LIVE OUT THE LAWS OF CHRIST,
In every word, and thought, and deed."

M.A.    

M.A.

Sister Marie

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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2003, 12:02:00 AM »
Communion is for all of us who want to be washed clean and come before Christ in Communion forgiven. However, I feel it is in our best interest to be washed and forgiven (ask for it) every time we get on our knees. But Communion is a special time we can come together. A time that is most special when people in the Church use it to ask forgiveness of one another so true unity can come. How the Holy Spirit can be felt in the place when this is going on. To me that is what Communion is for.

Re-baptism however, is a different story. To me if one is changing churches he should be re-baptized. Why? Because when you change churches you take on new beliefs and one is not a witness to his new beliefs if he is not publicly baptized. He has still only given witness to his old beliefs. Re-baptism to show publicly your new faith and that you will indeed follow it is needed.

Re-baptism is also needed when one falls away from the Lord's ways. Especially if they were a bad witness in doing so. But if a person has fallen away and feels the need to be re-baptized, or the Pastor feels it is a situation where re-baptism is needed, then it should indeed be done.

Either way it takes submission, and that is what coming to Christ is all about. Being humble and witnessing that we are coming back to the fold, or into the fold for the first time.

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Sister Marie

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Marie

Randy S

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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2003, 08:29:00 AM »
It is nice to see the many millions of baptized members we have throughout the world church, but, from what I know about the Bible, I very firmly believe that it is CONTRARY TO THE WILL OF GOD to bring in millions and millions of individuals into this church only to have many of them END UP BEING LOST for lacking in those things they need to know.

I think we need to be careful here.  The statement above could be construed as saying that we are saved based on WHAT we know rather than WHO we know.

The Bible is very clear that knowledge is very important.  Jesus said that to know God is to have eternal life.  God also said in the Old Testament that His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.  But I believe that knowledge is a knowledge of God rather than a knowledge of doctrine.  Those two things are not the same.

Jesus told the thief on the cross that he was saved, sans baptism, let alone re-baptism.  I doubt the thief on the cross would have scored very highly on a test of doctrine.  But, one thing is for sure: the thief saw his Savior and he was transformed by what he saw.  The thief trusted in God for forgiveness and he was saved.  We need to keep in mind what is most important and heed Mrs. White's counsel as was quoted above, not to make re-baptism a stumbling block.

Jesus said that there were many things he would like to tell us but we couldn't handle it.  Paul was told by the leadership in Jerusalem what was important to teach the Gentiles (after they joined the church by the way) and they left the other things out, at least for then.  I doubt that any of us have complete knowledge of the truth and if knowledge were the determining factor of our salvation many of us would be in a great deal of trouble.

Knowledge is still very imnportant.  Whe speaking to the Pharisees, who tended to major in minors, He told them that they should have done the more important things, while NOT leaving the other things undone.  We are to grow in knowledge of all truth.  I don't doubt that we'll do that through all eternity.  But we don't want to teach others that they are saved by what they know.  We are saved by who we know.  You see this time and again.  There are people out there who actually believe that they are saved by the blood of Christ, rather than by Christ, because we sing so many songs about the blood.  It seems a minor point but you'd be surprised at the implications when someone believes that they can be saved by a physical object rather than by God.

The same is true in this case.  EGW tells us there are many of God's people in other denominations.  Paul tells us the same thing about the gentiles who never even heard of the Law or Jesus.  Being saved is being in right relationship with the Savior.  It is an attitude of loyalty toward God and the truth.  Being lost is an attitude of rebellion toward God.  If one of these loyal sould should come to us from another denomination are they any more saved by being re-baptized?  As they are presented with the truth they will accept it.  That;s what people who are loyal to God and truth do.  If they feel they do not need to be re-baptized and we insist on it, are we doing right?

I like the Ellen White quoted referenced in a previous post.  That sounds like Biblicly sound advice to me.


Richard Myers

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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2003, 11:29:00 AM »
It is an interesting subject. I agree with you, Brother Randy, that we need to understand the issues clearly. One of the difficulties is that of church membership. When we bring one into fellowship we want to do so in a manner that is in harmony with Scripture and reason. A minister would be negligent to not instruct a new baptismal candidate in basic church doctrine. It would cause confusion and great difficulty in the church. We can imagine a new member who refuses to keep the Sabbath, yet was truly converted.  Or, who brings a beer to potluck.

There is need for proper instruction and evidence of conversion prior to baptism and church membership. A Christian will not object  if this is done in a proper and expeditious manner.

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Ele Holmes

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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2003, 03:43:00 PM »
    “For John, truly baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost....” Acts 1:5    
   When baptized into God’s remnant church, we should become a light, an example that others will want to follow.  Then what do we do? Can we be an example? Can we be that light for others to see Christ in us?
I was baptized twice because I knew I was not giving out the light I should in the beginning.  I knew I had to love Him more.
  Baptism by emersion is important, but let’s read what Ellen White said many years ago: “What we need is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.  Without this, we are no more fitted to go forth to the world than were the disciples after the crucifixion of their Lord.” RH Feb.18, 1890
   Jesus is our example to all things.  In His life we see the baptism of the Holy Spirit as a special, separate event following His baptism.  This event empowered Him for His greatest victories over Satan and equipped Him for ministry.  His experience is a model for every Christian.
    What happened when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the early church? In the book of Acts we see Holy Spirit power accompanying the preaching of the apostles. A spirit of generosity is seen during the “Acts One”experience (Acts2:44-45) There was no selfish ambition, no greed or stinginess. These early Christians were anxious to help their fellow believers who were in need.  They did not need more education, they needed more Holy Spirit.
   So we today are to do the same thing.  We are to earnestly pray and seek the early rain baptism of the Holy Spirit to come into our lives.  Then we are also to pray earnestly for God to pour out His Spirit in latter rain abundance.  (Zechariah 10:1)
   We are living between “Acts One” and “Acts Two.”  It is time for “Acts Two” to begin.  However, I warn you, Satan will do everything in his power to keep it from happening.  
    The question is, are we willing to seek God with all our hearts?  Only then will we find Him and know Him as the five wise virgins came to know Him (Jer.29:13) First, we must every day earnestly seek the  baptism of the Holy Spirit, Secondly with this attitude of self-surrender, we must petition Him day and night to revive us individually.  Finally, we are to pray daily for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in latter rain abundance and power.   Remember Paul’s words. “I die daily”.
   “The descent of the Holy Spirit upon the church is looked forward to as in the future, but it is the privilege of the church to have it now.  Seek for it, pray for it, believe for it.  We must have it, and Heaven is waiting to bestow it” Evangelism p.701
   “Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.  Cast me not away from thy presence and take not thy Holy Spirit from me.  Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation and uphold me with thy free Spirit.”   Ps. 51:10-13
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Richard Myers

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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2003, 10:30:00 AM »
Sometimes things need to be made real simple. Baptism is a sign of an inward change. What is this inward change? It is represented by baptism. A man goes down under the water as a symbolic act. What does it represent?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2003, 10:50:00 AM »
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into his death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Romans 6:3, 4.

As the Word of God VERY CLEARLY tells us, baptism represents the believer's following Christ into His death, burial, and resurrection. When a TRULY REPENTANT individual is baptized, three things are symbolized: (1) the individual is now dead unto sin:

"Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:11.

Secondly, the "old man (sinful ways)" is now buried with Him in the "watery grave" (vs. 4). And thirdly, one rises from the water TO A NEW LIFE IN CHRIST (vs. 4). In other words, baptism is a public declaration ON THE OUTSIDE of the change that has taken place in an individual ON THE INSIDE by way of the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ. Baptism symbolizes that the old life of sin and rebellion against God is now dead and buried, and one now rises to begin living THE NEW LIFE IN JESUS CHRIST by following after His Example in what one says and in what one does.

THERE IS NO POWER IN THE WATER!! The Power to overcome sin and live the Christian life comes from God by way of the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ when we TRULY REPENT of our sins AND MAKE CHRIST'S WAY OF LIFE our way of life.

M.A.

M.A.

Ele Holmes

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« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2003, 06:55:00 PM »
Dear M.A.    AMEN!    
 There is no power in the water.
 You have answered Richard's question.  Your statements are right on!  After Baptism living the new life in Christ by following His example is perfect; but unless we stay in communion with Christ through the Holy Spirit not daily, but moment by moment,  we sin again and again and again.  It sure is not easy for me at times to stay out of trouble.
   I am so grateful for this Forum.....
It sure helps keep me in communion with my
Lord.  Does any one else feel our daily trials sometimes provoke us to a point of discouragement? They say we are to know we are saved.  I wish I could say that.  Can you?  I need help and prayers too.  Thank you for caring.  ele  
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Richard Myers

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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2004, 06:39:00 PM »
Dear Ele, by faith we can know we are children of the King. How do we know? Here are two verses that can help us to know.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24.  

"We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death." 1 John 3:14.  

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Sister Marie

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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2004, 08:14:00 PM »
Sister Ele, I sure do know what your saying. I really feel that ones health has a lot to do with how they think too. Also if one is in pain a lot of the time...etc...

What brother Richard said is so true for the Bible says this. But there is a big difference sometimes and with some people, in how one feels and what one knows. For many what one knows controls what they feel. But others can know something, and no matter how good it is, they don't feel it. Why are the reasons for this? I don't know. I have talked with some others who are disabled that feel the same way and they really feel that the disability has something to do with it.

What counts is that we know and believe what the Bible says. We are told by SOP that we are not to go according to our feelings. Satan can draw us away from the Lord through our feelings. But that we hang on to what we know is true, and Christ can and will do that for each of us.  :)

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Sister Marie

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M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2004, 12:54:00 PM »
"I need help and prayers too."

Thank you Ele, for your very fine comments. You, most assuredly, are not alone for WE ALL NEED HELP AND PRAYERS TOO if we are to overcome the trials and obstacles we encounter in this earthly sojourn. I especially like what the Bible says when It tells us:

"Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee." Isaiah 26:3.

Our minds need to be STAYED ON JESUS from the time we awake in the morning, and all during the day. Our minds daily should constantly be IN HEAVENLY PLACES as we contemplate the great themes of "Soon and very soon, we are going to see the King," and the fact that "We are nearing home." As we go throughout each day, our determination should be TO DO WHAT JESUS WOULD DO as we interact with one another. As the Bible text reminds us above, "thou wilt keep him IN PERFECT PEACE whose mind is stayed on thee." When the mind is stayed on Jesus WE DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME to engage in frivolous thought, because, as my mother used to remind me, "An idle mind is the devil's workshop!"

"Finally brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." Philippians 4:8.

If we would follow the Bible formula given in Philippians 4:8, we would experience the PEACE OF GOD WHICH PASSES ALL UNDERSTANDING that is mentioned in verse 7. But because the enemy does not want us to have this experience, he distracts us so much WITH OUR OWN PERSONAL PROBLEMS until they tend to overwhelm us and cause us to lose sight of the fact that we overcome in this life:

"...Not by might, nor by power, BUT BY MY SPIRIT, saith the Lord of hosts." Zechariah 4:6, emphasis mine.

When we DAILY lay claim to the precious promises of God and seek to order our lives after the Divine Likeness of Jesus Christ, THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL RECOGNIZE THIS and will give us what we stand in need of in order to make it through the day. In spite of our pain--physical and otherwise, in spite of our heartaches, in spite of our disappointments, in spite of our abandonment by others, GOD IS STILL ABLE to see us through!!!

M.A.  

M.A.

Ele Holmes

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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2004, 09:30:00 AM »
Richard, Yes, by Faith I do believe, But Lord, help my unbelief.  At times, when I grow weary and things do not go my way and my trials I don't give to the Lord, I know I have not kept Jesus in my mind moment by moment, and when you leave a gap open, who comes rushing in like a roaring lion?  With this forum that gap does not open as much any more, and I praise my Lord every day.
 
Marie, the same with my feeling, You are so right, Satan draws us.....But "I am hanging in there"  I love my Lord so much and we will make it, is my permanent prayer.

M.A.   What a promise! I love it, Isaiah 26:3. Thank you.  And it is so true, with my mind on Jesus, he keeps me in perfect peace.
Your post is most inspiring.

God bless you and Thank you.  Heavenly Father, I pray for my brothers and sister in Christ, give us all this Faith and belief to know we will see your Son soon, in the clouds of glory.  Help us to keep our minds on Jesus, moment by moment. Thank you for your love. In Jesus name.....I pray.

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Liane H

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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2004, 10:52:00 AM »
Sister Ele:

You are not alone, we all have our moments of weakness and going astray, but be thanks to that voice that speaks to us called the Holy Spirit that draws us back home into the loving arms of Jesus, our saviour and friend.

That is the power that comes from knowing and allowing the Holy Spirit to work in our lives, that keeps us safe because we have drawn from this power unto salvation.

There had been a few times that I thought about being re-baptized as I had been baptized when I joined the church. Notice the word "thought," but after time in prayer I came to understand that it is not always necessary to be re-baptized.

There was never a day in our lives that we were so happy, so joyous, so pure before God than that day we walked into that water and submerged by the pastor and came up a new creature in Christ. Everything was complete in that day and each time I go and see a baptism I rejoice in my own memories of that day, which even is as clear as it was in my mind as the day it happen.

We are baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son and the HOLY SPIRT when we joined this church. We were not baptized in what we know, but in who we believed and dedicated our lives to follow.

To follow Jesus though we must know what we need to understand and learn from the Scriptures for these are his Words that He has given us to teach us how to be a child of the Father.

Do we do this follow perfect, that would be so nice, but not in this world of sin and temptation. The path is straight it is us that make it crooked, some of us become so blind that we start walking down wrong paths and find ourselves lost, but not for the voice of the Holy Spirit, if we listen we will find our way back to the straight path.

Again I believe that our first baptism into the church is the purest and best event in our lives. We must not make light of it with re-baptism when not necessary.

There are alter calls which we can go forth in which we re-dedicate our lives to Jesus again as we had done when we were baptized.      

Only for those that have completely rejected Christ and walked away from the church do I feel it is necessary to be re-baptized. Whatever we forgot and lost must be renewed with a public expression of our renewed faith in Jesus and change in our lives.

Liane

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2004, 02:06:00 PM »
Again, thank you Sis. Ele for your comments. I tend to agree with what Sis Liane said in her last post. To me, rebaptism is abused by many who seem to think there is POWER IN THE WATER to cause them to stop committing the particular sin(s) they commit. As I stated in an earlier post, baptism (or rebaptism) is simply a public declaration on the outside OF THE CHANGE that has taken place in individual on the inside. This change is brought about ONLY by way of the Holy Spirit as a result of the commitment one has made to follow Jesus Christ ALL THE WAY. But even when we make that commitment to walk with the Lord all the way, sometimes, as has been pointed out already, we become weak and we sin. But I am reminded of these words of Scripture which tell us:

"For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust." Psalms 103:14.

God "knows our frame." He loves us and desires only to save us. He proved that at Calvary. He knows that we are sinners saved only by His Grace (Eph. 2:8). This is why we are told in Scripture:

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." 1 John 2:1.

God knows our strengths and our weaknesses. HE ALSO KNOWS WHEN WE COULD HAVE DONE BETTER!!  When we DO WHAT JESUS WOULD DO each and every day that we live, WE ARE NOW COVERED by the Robe of Christ's Righteousness (Isa. 61:10). Therefore, when God looks upon us, He does not look upon us as sinners. Instead, He sees ONLY THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST, because we have now made Christ's Way of life our way of life.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9.

M.A.    

M.A.

Richard Myers

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« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2004, 12:10:00 PM »
Sister Liane, I must gently disagree. As I have pointed out in this topic there is need for many to re-baptised. From my earlier post: "There are times when one was truly converted prior to the first baptism and he falls away from his first love and over a protracted period of time misrepresents the Saviour. Also, some are convicted that a sin or sins are of such a nature that they must make a public statement of their love of Christ after they are brought to repentance. Again, this is a very personal decision and no pressure is to be brought to bear on any person to receive baptism. It is to be a joyful occasion when the Christian gives testimony publicly of his love for Jesus and his decision to follow Him at all costs."

We have some light on this from the Spirit of Prophecy also. As I recall, Ellen White was re-baptised when she accepted the fouth commandment. Here is a statement that is very clear. "There are many at the present day who have unwittingly violated one of the precepts of God's law. When the understanding is enlightened, and the claims of the fourth commandment are urged upon the conscience, they see themselves sinners in the sight of God. 'Sin is the transgression of the law' and 'he that shall offend on one point is guilty of all.' "Rebaptism"  Evangelism 372.

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2004, 02:15:00 PM »
It is true that sometimes rebaptism is needed on the part of an individual due to the nature of the offense(s)committed. I certainly am not saying that rebaptism is not sometimes needed, and I don't believe Sis. Liane is either. What I do believe is that an individual member of the church who has committed a particular offense should, first of all, counsel with his or her pastor to ascertain if rebaptism is necessary. Most Seventh-day Adventist pastors, especially those who have been ordained, are trained to provide the needed counsel when an individual seeks guidance in this matter. As I stated above, my point is there is no spiritual power gained from entering either the baptismal or rebaptismal waters. REAL POWER to overcome temptation and sin comes from the Holy Spirit WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL HAS MADE UP HIS OR HER MIND to follow Jesus all the way. That commitment to follow Jesus MUST BE A DAILY COMMITMENT which must be renewed each day that we live. Our love for Jesus must be reaffirmed each day BY WAY OF OUR ACTIONS as we grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

M.A.  

M.A.

Richard Myers

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« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2004, 10:29:00 PM »
Sorry, I neglected to post the second paragraph of the quote that points clearly to "re-baptism".

"The honest seeker after truth will not plead ignorance of the law as an excuse for transgression. Light was within his reach. God's Word is plain, and Christ has bidden him search the Scriptures. He reveres God's law as holy, just, and good, and he repents of his transgression. By faith he pleads the atoning blood of Christ, and grasps the promise of pardon. His former baptism does not satisfy him now. He has seen himself a sinner, condemned by the law of God. He has experienced anew a death to sin, and he desires again to be buried with Christ by baptism, that he may rise to walk in newness of life. Such a course is in harmony with the example of Paul in baptizing the Jewish converts. That incident was recorded by the Holy Spirit as an instructive lesson for the church."

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2004, 07:17:00 AM »
"Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost." Matthew 28:19.

GO AND TEACH ALL NATIONS. Herein lies the problem. In Matthew 28:19 and 20, Jesus Christ gave the Great Commission to His disciples to FIRST OF ALL go and teach all nations. But, as with most problems we have within the Seventh-day Adventist Church today, we have gotten away from the plain, unadulterated Word of God AS IT IS WRITTEN. The Bible very clearly tells us that WE ARE TO FIRST TEACH, and then baptize. We are to first of all teach prospective baptismal candidates the fundamental doctrines of the church, and show FROM THE BIBLE how these doctrines are based upon the Word of God. This can be done in several ways. In the past, most evangelistic meetings attempted to accomplish this. Another way it can be done is by way of cottage meetings held in members homes with small Bible study groups using, for example, the Amazing Facts, or some other comprehensive Bible study guide. At any rate, no matter what method is used, the bottom line is, the Bible tells us WE ARE TO FIRST TEACH and then baptize. If we were to religiously follow this and other Bible prescriptions with regard to baptism, we will have done what the Bible requires of us.

M.A.      

M.A.