Author Topic: On Being "Born Again" (Read 113548 times)

Sister Marie · « **Reply #40 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:20:00 PM »

The nature was perverted and man's flesh ruled over his mind. Without help from God we would not choose to do good because it was good. Selfishness was now our makeup. Satan only increases our difficulities.

Seems to me that satan is our difficulity. Right? Without him we (Adam and Eve) would not have had a difficulity. They would not have been tempted to sin. Satan is not just the father of all lies, but the father of sin.

Man did indeed change after sin. The protecting cover, (which I think was the robe of righteousness we will all receive when the Lord comes again)that God once gave them left when they sinned and they seen one another and themselves as we see today. So they needed to cloth themselves. This cover I think helped to protect them in that their charactor was protected. But when man choose to walk beyond the protection into the hands of another master (satan) they lost their charactor, their home and had it not been for Jesus, they would have lost eternal life also.

------------------
With Christian Love,
Sister Glass

Mike Lowe · « **Reply #41 on:** December 31, 2002, 09:24:00 AM »

Regrading the nature of man:

The Upward Look, page 18, paragraph 3
It is the privilege of every believer in Christ to possess Christ's nature, a nature far above that which Adam forfeited by transgression.

Conflict and Courage, page 19, paragraph 4
Among the lower creatures Adam had stood as king, and so long as he remained loyal to God, all nature acknowledged his rule; but when he transgressed, this dominion was forfeited.

Lift Him Up, page 255, paragraph 7
When Adam and Eve in Eden lost the garments of holiness, they lost the light that had illuminated nature. No longer could they read it aright. But for those who receive the light of the life of Christ, nature is again illuminated. In the light shining from the cross, we can rightly interpret nature's teaching.

My Life Today, page 323, paragraph 6
In His human nature He maintained the purity of His divine character. He lived the law of God, and honored it in a world of transgression, revealing to the heavenly universe, to Satan, and to all the fallen sons and daughters of Adam that through His grace humanity can keep the law of God. He came to impart His own divine nature, His own image, to the repentant, believing soul.

Manuscript Releases Volume Five, page 112, paragraph 1
The world's Redeemer passed over the ground where Adam fell because of his disobeying the expressed law of Jehovah; and the only begotten Son of God came to our world as a man, to reveal to the world that men could keep the law of God. Satan, the fallen angel, had declared that no man could keep the law of God after the disobedience of Adam. He claimed the whole race under his control.

M.A. Crawford · « **Reply #42 on:** December 31, 2002, 09:51:00 AM »

"What do you believe the inspired writers wrote about the impact on mankind's ability to resist temptation after Satan became the prince of this planet?...How did Satan's change of status change mankind?"

"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." Psalms 51:5.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:22.

The Bible in Psalms 51:5 makes it VERY CLEAR that we humans are born in sin and shaped in iniquity because:

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9.

In other words, no matter how we as professed Christians may think of ourselves as Mr. or Ms. "Goody Two-Shoes," the Bible tells us IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that the human mind--YOURS AND MINE--without the cleansing Power of the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ, is deceitful and wicked:

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one." Romans 3:10.

Isn't that something? This is the reason why IT IS OF PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE for all of us to begin A SERIOUS STUDY of the Word of God, if we have not already. For, in the Holy Bible, we learn things WE NEED TO KNOW if we expect to be saved.

Because Adam was the father of the human race and he sinned, therefore A CLEAN THING CANNOT COME FROM THAT WHICH IS UNCLEAN (Job 14:4). This is why it is writtten in 1 Corinthians 15:22 that "For as in Adam all die." BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS: "Even so in Christ shall all be made alive"!!! When we choose JESUS' WAY OF LIFE and make it our way, we are from that moment "made alive" and are saved in God's Kingdom AS LONG AS we continue to make Christ's Way of life our way of life. Praise God!!!

M.A.

Mike Lowe · « **Reply #43 on:** December 31, 2002, 09:55:00 AM »

Adam's mind and flesh nature were originally in complete harmony with God and His law. So, the question is, what changed one nanosecond after Adam chose to die with Eve? How did his flesh nature become so corrupt so soon? Since sinful flesh nature propensities are passed on from generation to generation how did Adam's nature all of sudden become so evil?

I believe the best answer to these questions lies in the fact Adam forfeited his dominion of the Earth to Satan. Once he fell under the tyrannical rule of Satan's princely rule of the world Adam became the slave of Satan's wicked devices.

If, however, Adam had chosen to die with Eve, and Satan never existed to rule over him afterwards, I believe things would have turned out very differently for Adam. The devil would have not been around to influence Adam and the human race to live a life of sin and selfishness. Yes, they would have had a difficult time, but nothing like it is with Satan around to tempt and annoy.

Adam did not consciously rebel agaisnt God in the same way Lucifer did in Heaven. That is, Adam did not become jealous of Jesus and desire to be equal or above God in authority. Adam simply, albeit unwisely, chose to die with his beloved sweetheart.

But in light of the great controversy between Christ and Satan, the fall of Adam and Eve could not be treated in the way God might have handled it had not been for the accusations of the Enemy of God. In fact, had it not been for Satan tempting Eve in the first place it is very likely she never would have eaten the forbidden fruit, thus, Adam would never would have resolved to share her fate.

I believe the key to understanding what happened the instant Adam chose to die with Eve, and why things changed so radically at that very moment, is the fact Satan became the ruler of this world and we became his slaves. The evil one works through our flesh nature to influence us to obey his wicked voice. According to the law of "mind over mind" (i.e., weaker minds obey the will of stronger minds), we naturally obey the will of Satan.

Once we're born again and receive the implanted gift of the mind of the new man the Holy Spirit empowers us to partake of the divine nature and live without sin. We become the servants of Jesus and His righteousness. We still possess sinful flesh natures, with all its unholy clamorings for sin, but in Christ we are able to resist the tempting voices sin, self and Satan and live unto the honor and glory of God Almighty.

M.A. Crawford · « **Reply #44 on:** January 01, 2003, 11:19:00 AM »

"Adam did not consciously rebel against God in the same way Lucifer did in Heaven."

I believe that Lucifer DID NOT THINK OF HIMSELF as rebelling against God, and neither did the angels who followed him in his rebellion. As a matter of fact, I am sure HE AND THEY THOUGHT HE HAD SOME GOOD POINTS in what he was saying. Adam, in his horror, knew that Eve had to die because she had disobeyed God and eaten of the forbidden fruit (Gen. 2:17). But, because of his love for Eve, I believe Adam reasoned: "Maybe if I partake of the forbidden fruit also, surely God will have mercy on us and not destroy us both." Let us consider both scenarios in light of the Scripture text below:

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

1. Lucifer had the power to choose. God created him that way. From the Bible's description of him in Ezekiel 28:12-28, we know that he "sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty" (vs. 12). This was no ordinary angel! He had been on the Holy Mountain of God, and "walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire" (vs. 14). This angel had been places no other angelic being had been. He had been on the Holy Mountain. He had walked among the Holy Stones. He was the highest in rank among the Heavenly hosts. He was the "anointed cherub" (vs. 14). He had it all (vs. 15). He was next to Christ!!! But something happened. The Bible tells us what happened:

"Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness...." Ezekiel 28:17.

Can all see the problem? Lucifer was wise, BUT GOD IS ALL-WISE!!! Lucifer's problem was (now don't miss this) HE PERMITTED HIS SO-CALLED BRILLANCE TO OUTSHINE HIS ACTUAL BRIGHTNESS!!! In other words, brothers and sisters, Lucifer thought he was just as wise as God. HE THOUGHT HE WAS GOD!!!

"...I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne ABOVE THE STARS OF GOD...I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH." Isaiah 14:13, 14, emphasis mine throughout.

Lucifer's major mistake was HE DID NOT KNOW EVERYTHING!!! Only God knows the end from the beginning:

"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, AND THERE IS NONE ELSE; I am God, and there is none like me, DECLARING THE END FROM THE BEGINNING and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, my counsel shall stand..." Isaiah 46:9, 10.

ONLY GOD KNOWS EVERYTHING!!!!

2. Adam was also given the power to choose by God. He was not an automaton. God knew from eternity that in giving man this power that ONE DAY HE MAY CHOOSE TO SERVE HIM NOT!!! And that is precisely what happened. Instead of doing what God told him to do, ADAM CHOSE TO DO IT HIS WAY! Yes, Eve had to die because the wages of sin (disobeying God) is death (Romans 6:23), but what Adam in his finiteness did not understand is, although Eve had to die, if he had obeyed God, THE CREATOR COULD HAVE GIVEN HIM ANOTHER EVE, more beautiful and more desirable than the previous one because GOD IS GOD and is able to do whatsoever He desires to do (Isa. 46:10). And, here is the bottom line: Whatever God does, because God is God, HE IS INCAPABLE OF MAKING A MISTAKE OR ERROR!!! Because He already knows the end from the beginning (vs. 10).

3. Some teach today that one can still be saved while committing so-called "little," unimportant sins as opposed to one who commits so-called horrendous and awful sins. One has only to look at the case scenarios of Adam and Lucifer--and other Biblical examples of sin--to know that this teaching is not true. SIN IS SIN!!! And we sin WHEN WE DISOBEY GOD by doing that which is contrary to His Word--JUST LIKE ADAM; JUST LIKE LUCIFER!! This is the reason why it is so very important to CAREFULLY AND PRAYERFULLY study the Word of God, for the Bible tells us:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, AND THEY ARE LIFE." John 6:63. Emphasis mine.

Jesus very clearly tells us in John 6:63 that LIFE IS IN THE WORD OF GOD. Therefore, we receive this life, BY DOING WHAT IT SAYS!!!!

M.A.

Mike Lowe · « **Reply #45 on:** January 01, 2003, 04:20:00 PM »

Amen!!!

I think we agree that Adam and Lucifer did not deviate from God's will in the same way or for the same reasons. Lucifer coveted to be like and above God. Whereas, Adam chose to die with Eve.

Because of the great controversy, God did not destroy mankind and the fallen angels in the Garden of Eden. They were allowed to live in order for the principles of the great controversy to play out before the onlooking universe. Satan became the prince of this planet and we became his slaves of sin.

But in Christ, and thank you Jesus, we can crucify sin, self and Satan, and experience the miracle of rebirth and so escape the corruption that is in the world and in our fallen natures. Praise God! In Christ we are free from sin. Amen! In Christ, by the power of the indwelling Spirit of God, we are free to imitate Jesus' lovely example in loving service to our fellow beings.

Randy S · « **Reply #46 on:** January 04, 2003, 06:30:00 AM »

I have heard the follwing statement made before:

quote:
...but what Adam in his finiteness did not understand is, although Eve had to die, if he had obeyed God, THE CREATOR COULD HAVE GIVEN HIM ANOTHER EVE, more beautiful and more desirable than the previous one because GOD IS GOD..."

Can someone please tell me where in the Bible or Spirit of Prophecy they get the evidence that God is the kind of person who would do that? I understand that God had that capability, but we know enough about our God to know that He would not expect Adam to transfer his love to a replacement wife. Even children who have lost a pet know that it's not the same simply to purchase a replacement.

We know based on the demonstration of God's love revealaed in the Bible what Adam should have done. Adam should have decided not to eat the fruit, and waited for God's next visit to ask Him what could be done for his wife. Eve would have had an opportunity to be saved under the plan of redemption, but Adam underestimated the love and mercy of God. God did not expect Adam to forget about Eve and accept a replacement wife.

Eve was no more disposable than Adam, in God's eyes. If Eve was disposable then so was Adam. God could just as well have got rid of them both after they sinned and replaced them with a new pair: "Oh well, there's more where they came from!"

Michelle · « **Reply #47 on:** January 04, 2003, 02:49:00 PM »

To the question of being born again, truly.

I have two questions: One: Do you now have a life that is sinless? (I am not being sarcastic)

Two: When was David converted--before or after Bathsheba?

Sister Marie · « **Reply #48 on:** January 04, 2003, 04:12:00 PM »

Good point Randy,

Sometimes I get to thinking that even tho God did not want it this way, that He knew that man would sin. I sometimes get to thinking that all this had to happen to clear things up with everyone, that we have a just and a good God that has done things, like throwing Satan and his angels out of heaven, etc... that it was the right and just thing to do.

Think about it. How would God's name ever be cleared if all this had not happened? The bright side is that Salvation is there for us if we follow our Lord. And sense all things are possible with God, then our Salvation is possible too when we put our life and our attitudes in His hands.

------------------
With Christian Love,
Sister Glass

Randy S · « **Reply #49 on:** January 04, 2003, 04:48:00 PM »

Amen Sister Glass.

If God truly knows the end from the beginning, as the Bible claims, then He could foresee the choices that Adam and Eve would make. It was no surprise to God that man chose to sin.

Why did God choose to go ahead with His creation of this world when there was a war going on? Why didn't He wait until it was over? It seems to me that this world is God's answer to the controversy. Through this world, and the fall of man, God can demonstrate the truth about sin and its results.

I love EGW's statement about the effectiveness of the cross in terms of ensuring the security of those who have never sinned:

quote:
It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded from apostasy. Without the cross they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. Angelic perfection failed in heaven. Human perfection failed in Eden, the paradise of bliss. All who wish for security in earth or heaven must look to the Lamb of God. The plan of salvation, making manifest the justice and love of God, provides an eternal safeguard against defection in unfallen worlds...

Mike Lowe · « **Reply #50 on:** January 05, 2003, 06:03:00 AM »

Yes, sin was inevitable, but God chose to create the angels and humans in spite of it. But I cannot believe that God created us in order to sin and disprove the accusations of Satan. The fall of man was not necessary to prove sin and Satan wrong.

Just as it is the faithfulness of the saints in the end that proves God right so it would have been the faithfulness of man in the beginning, in the garden of Eden, that could have accomplished the same thing (without these 6000 years of woe).

Michelle, the truth about rebirth is true not because we sin and repent after we're born again but because the word of God says so. When begin at rebirth where Jesus began at birth. The promises of perfection are true so long as the conditions of the promises are true - "if any man be in Christ." 2 Cor 5:17. It's true whether we feel it or not. Remember, they accused Jesus of being the son of Satan. How much more His followers? See Mat 10:25.

The promises are so clear and plain as not to be mistaken:

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

2 Peter 1:4,10
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.... for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

Gal 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

It is our privilege and duty to ask, believe and claim the promises of God. It is God's privilege and duty to empower us to experience them unto His honor and glory.

Do I still sin? Good question, and a fair one. It always comes up when people study the truth about rebirth. Though the question itself usually turns people against the truth. But it's necessary to know that the promises of God do not imply that once we are born again that we will never resurrect our crucified old man and revert back or lapse into sin. Which is what happened to David, and all of us.

The promises simply teach that so long as we are born again and walk in the Spirit and mind of the new man that we do not and cannot commit a known moral sin. Another promise accommodates what happens if after we've been born again we slip back into the resurrected mind of the old man and sin. It's very important to notice that this promise also begins with the word if (not when).

1 John 2:1,2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

This promise does not describe the life of a born again believer walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man. Rather it explains what he does, if he slips back into the mind of the old man, in order to be restored back to the mind of the new man.

Does that make sense?

M.A. Crawford · « **Reply #51 on:** January 05, 2003, 07:41:00 AM »

"Can someone please tell me where in the Bible or Spirit of Prophecy they get the evidence that God is the kind of person who would do that [give Adam another Eve]?"

I did not say that God WOULD do that. I said the Creator COULD HAVE GIVEN Adam another Eve IF He chose to do so. My point was GOD CAN DO WHATSOEVER HE CHOOSES. He is not bound within the narrow parameters of our finite way of thinking as human beings (Isa. 46:9, 10). Whatever God did, HE DID THAT WHICH WAS BEST for the human race.

Since its entrance, God's Purpose HAS BEEN TO ERADICATE SIN wholly and completely from His universe. And that shall occur MOST ASSUREDLY soon and very soon. For some (unfortunately), it will be SOONER THAN THEY THINK!!!

M.A.

Michelle · « **Reply #52 on:** January 05, 2003, 08:21:00 AM »

Mike, thanks, that does make sense. I asked my grandma a similar question, and got a similar answer. It seems as though it is inevitable that we will "slip". I guess it's different to say we will "slip" than that we just sin and can't help it? I'm still trying to figure this out, so if my questions are too far out, ignore them.

Michelle

Sister Marie · « **Reply #53 on:** January 05, 2003, 11:10:00 AM »

The thought put out is not that God created us TO SIN, but rather that he created us knowing we would sin because Satan was there in the garden and he could woo Adam and Eve with tasty lies where God would never do that.

Because of this sinful planet---that maybe why other planets have not sinned. They see what sin has done by looking here and seeing what is going on. Ellen White has said we are being watched by other worlds and by the angels. They don't know the ending, but God does.

God did not want us to sin. But being that we did, it is a lesson to all creation of what sin will do. And God could give no more than His beloved Son to save us. What more can He do? We have to choose Him or go down forever with satan.

When understood like this, it is not hard to understand this to be true. As far as another Eve is concerned God could have done any number of things to make that happen, like starting over with Adam not remembering anything of what happened. However, God knew that He would not be faced with doing this. He knew the doubt that would add to the good angels. He knew the pain ahead even tho He did not wish it to be that way.

------------------
With Christian Love,
Sister Glass

Richard Myers · « **Reply #54 on:** January 06, 2003, 07:39:00 AM »

Sister Michelle, it is an important study. God will bless you. You might consider reading the chapter Nicodemus in The Desire of Ages along with Revelation chapter three and of course first John. The answer to your concern is throughout the Bible, but these three short readings are at the foundation. There are a number of topics in the BOL Forum as well as the Worship Forum that deal pointedly with the topic. Righteousness by Faith is the expression that God uses to explain the subject. It is a precious study. I pray the Lord will bless you abundantly.

Richard

M.A. Crawford · « **Reply #55 on:** January 07, 2003, 11:12:00 AM »

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins; and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9.

1. "If we confess our sins." What does it mean to confess our sins? It means to acknowledge to God, or to OWN UP TO THE FACT, that we have sinned. Now, once we have acknowledged that we have sinned, what is the next step?

"Repent ye therefore, AND BE CONVERTED, that your sins may be blotted out...." Acts 3:19 emphasis mine.

2. "Repent." Notice how THE BIBLE SAYS our sins are blotted out. First, we are to repent. Both confession and repentance involve (please don't miss this) A GODLY SORROW for sinning. What do I mean by a Godly sorrow? It means that by committing a particular sin, we become ACUTELY AWARE that WE HAVE SINNED AGAINST GOD and are therefore sorry for sinning. This is what Peter alluded to in Acts 5:4 when he told Ananias that he had not lied to men, but had lied to God. Therefore TRUE GODLY SORROW will cause us to refrain from doing a particular sin any more because (and please don't miss this) IF WE TRULY LOVE JESUS, we WILL NOT do the things that grieve the Heart of God (Eph. 4:30).

After repentance, Acts 3:19 admonishes us that we are to "be converted," which brings us right back to being born again. One cannot be truly converted without being born again. True conversion means TO CHANGE; which means to be born again!! It means that the things we used to do WE DON'T DO THEM ANYMORE because there is now A NEW MASTER who governs and controls our lives whose name is Jesus Christ:

"...old things are passed away; behold, ALL THINGS are become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17, emphasis mine.

In other words, there is now A NEW SHERIFF IN TOWN!!! And His Name is Jesus Christ who is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and will cleanse us FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (1 John 1:9) if we will confess, repent, AND STOP COMMITTING SIN through the mighty Power of the Holy Spirit who is readily available to us if we would but turn to Him. The key is: WE MUST BELIEVE that all of this will take place! And then move forward in faith. For without faith, it is impossible to please God (Heb. 11:6).

M.A.

Richard Myers · « **Reply #56 on:** January 07, 2003, 07:58:00 PM »

Amen, Brother M.A.!!

Jesus is just, but more than that, He is merciful. He comes looking for the guilty so that He can forgive them, if they will come to Him....

Richard

Randy S · « **Reply #57 on:** January 08, 2003, 10:13:00 AM »

It's one of the most magnificent things about God, that He came to save those who were lost rather than simply letting us die.

I think though that we human beings sometimes get the wrong idea about repentence and forgiveness.

When we read the words of Christ upon the cross, the Son of God asking God the Father to forgive those who were trying to murder him, even though they did not ask Jesus to forgive them, I think it points out how good our God really is.

Then, when we read in Romans 2 that it is the goodness of God that leads us to repentence, we can see how important it is for us to represent God in all his goodness when witnessing for Him. I like these statements by Ellen White:

quote:
Without the divine working, man can do no good thing. God calls every man to repentance, yet man cannot even repent unless the Holy Spirit works upon his heart. But the Lord wants no man to wait until he thinks he has repented before he takes steps toward Jesus. The Saviour is continually drawing men to repentance; they need only to submit to be drawn, and their hearts will be melted in penitence. {CT 365.4}
When before the high priests and Sadducees, Peter clearly presented the fact that repentance is the gift of God. Speaking of Christ, he said, "Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." Repentance is no less the gift of God than are pardon and justification, and it cannot be experienced except as it is given to the soul by Christ. If we are drawn to Christ, it is through His power and virtue. The grace of contrition comes through Him, and from Him comes justification. {FLB 110.3}

Mike Lowe · « **Reply #58 on:** January 12, 2003, 08:49:00 AM »

Patriarchs and Prophets, page 56, paragraph 2
She was a part of himself, and he could not endure the thought of separation. He did not realize that the same Infinite Power who had from the dust of the earth created him, a living, beautiful form, and had in love given him a companion, could supply her place. He resolved to share her fate; if she must die, he would die with her.

Mike Lowe · « **Reply #59 on:** January 12, 2003, 09:50:00 AM »

The Spirit of Prophecy Volume One, page 39, paragraph 2
He did not think that God, who had formed him out of the dust of the ground into a living, beautiful form, and had created Eve to be his companion, could supply her place.

Patriarchs and Prophets, page 56, paragraph 2
He did not realize that the same Infinite Power who had from the dust of the earth created him, a living, beautiful form, and had in love given him a companion, could supply her place. He resolved to share her fate; if she must die, he would die with her.