Author Topic: Investigative Judgment  (Read 65987 times)

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Clive Nevell

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2003, 08:51:00 AM »
To me it is logical for God to have an investigation before He makes a judgement. He knew where Adam and Eve were when He came into the garden. Likewise every other case you look at God knows before he passes judgement.

The issue as I see it is that God must show the universe that the decisions that has been made is right. We have unfallen worlds that do not fully understand what we go through. God's name must be vindicated. It will be.

That is why there are "books" in heaven for all to see. Nothing is covered up.


Clive


Richard Myers

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2003, 12:23:00 PM »
Yes, Brother Clive, and when we see there is indeed a pre-advent judgment, we then must understand who it is that is being judged. Few are willing to teach that it is the sinner's record that is being examined. The "new theology" rampant in "Christian" churches allows for the sinner to enter into eternal life with a character that does not keep the commandments of God. Rightly understood the sanctuary services including those on the Day of Atonement point to the need to repent of each sin and to forsake them.

When the books in heaven are opened, they are the records of the good deeds and the bad deeds of those who profess God. Recorded are the motives and the thoughts as well as the outward actions. All who have named Christ will be seen to be either truly converted because they have a changed character or unconverted because their motives, thoughts, and deeds were not in harmony with the law of God.

It is very simple and in harmony with the real gospel. Most in the churches will not accept such a "narrow" gospel. We were warned that this day would come. "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Tim 3:3,4.

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Kevin Hellerud

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2004, 10:03:00 PM »
Have you ever noticed that those who want to say that there is no investigative judgment want to explain it away because they feel that if it is true that it must be something scary and against them...

What type of picture of God must they have? First of all, even before asking if it is true or not, we need to realize that if there is any possiblity of it being true, it is a gift from the same one who gave us the gift of the story of the birth of Jesus, the sermon on the mount, the raising of Lazarus, the resurection of Jesus, and the hope of heaven. Why do the critics feel that this gift should be horrable since the others have been so wonderful?

Who was it that found the birth of Jesus to be terrible? Herod. Who found the raising of Lazarus to be bad news? The leaders who wanted to put Jesus to death. Who found the resurection of Jesus to be horrible? Pilate, Herod, Caiaphas. Thus I worry about those who feel that the Investigative Judgment is not good news.



Kevin Hellerud

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2004, 11:54:00 PM »
Once we have come to the realization that the gifts from God are good news, we can start to evaluate whether the investigative judgment is good news.

About 6 or 7 years ago, I wrote an essay on the Adventist Today website, which stoped actvity for well over a month, then a few people threw verbal comments such as "It's too long, how do you expect us to read this all" "We all know that the investigative judgment is not Biblical" etc. which pushed it off the opening page, but no one dealt with the issues raised.

I have revised and posted again over the years, but still get no takers among the critics, except once one person picked on one line in the post, even though I know that there are points that can be much stronger (such as better footnotes).

Some of the highlights include:
1. Everytime before God does something in the Bible there is an investigative judgment. God calling for Adam and Eve and asking what happened. God coming to invistigate the cities of Sodom and Gomorah, etc.

2. Archaeology teaches us that in ancient near-eastern trials, there is always an investigative judgment phase. People tended to see themselves coming into the investigative judgment phase as positive, where they would be justified. Same with people and their gods. In the Cannanite religion good, wise king Danel prayed to Baal to have his name come up in judgment to be investigated and see if he could get a son. The people in Sodom and Gamorah believed in the investigative judgment and saw it as positive. The story of Sodom and Gamorah was that the supernatural beings who were to represent Yahweh in ruling those cities found that the people could no longer be rulled, and thus wanted an investigative judgment to free them from the responcibility.

3. Archaeology also teaches us that the ancient world thought in terms of cycles that were interchangeable. We with our Greek, western thought think in a time line. The ancients thought in a circle. Israel thought in a spirial, where things circle around but from a begining and going towards an end, but though out time it would cycle around again. An end was also a begining. One cycle ended as another began. Places on the cycle were seen as somewhat interchangeable. This is why prophecys all have a local application and also future applications (notice I did not say "application"). They believed that you can be here and there, now and then. One application in Egypt, as pointed out in "Before Philosophy" by Henri Frankfort and others, 1946 University of Chicago Press, was that the idea of a day in ancient Egypt was applied to the cycle of the sun and to the cycle of the flooding of the Nile, which happened once a year. Day-Year is a frequent interchange in the ancient world and the Bible. For example, Moses spent 40 years in the wilderness and Jesus spent 40 days in the wilderness, and Moses' 40 years becomes a prophecy of Jesus' 40 days. Thus the Day-year is a part of the culture that gave us the Bible.

4. Although we can not give exact dates, from the third year of Belshazzar to Belshazzar's feast covered a period of approxamately 2300 days. Daniel 9 re-applys the 2300 days to the future decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, which has the strongest evidence for having begun with the Day of Atonement 457 BC, but the original setting was that things could have ended in the last 2300 literal days of the exile with the Messiah coming to bring them home, if only they would share the gospel with their neighbors.

5. With the cyclic time, compaired to the cycles in Leviticus we find cycles of (and I don't remember if I got all of them here, I think there were six or 7 of which I'm only noticing and remembering 5) but we have days, months, half years, full years and Sabbatical years, but with Daniel's dependence more on Deuteronomy than Leviticus, we do not count the Sabbatical years as a possibility. So Daniel 8:14 could be 2300 days, 2300 months, 2300 half years and 2300 full years (and I think one other shorter one). God did not have to sit around tweddling his thumbs until 1844, rather 1844 was the longest that Daniel 8:14 could be applied to. It could have been fulfilled at any of the shorter times had the gospel been preached.

5. "Kippor" in the Old Testament and the ancient world could be either positive or negative depending on your choice to the event. Thus it is translated as either judgment or atonment. It bore with it an idea of one event that could have two different results. A classic kippor is the birth of Jesus, which brought one message to the Wise Men, and quite another to Herod. It was not God doing one good thing to the Magi and doing a sepperate bad thing to Herod, but the one single event that was incredably wonderful to the Magi and unspeakably horrible to Herod. The Biblical idea of the word kippor is God doing anything special that can deepen our relationship with him. Thus not to have a kippor, would mean that God would have to become static and passive, because anything active he does is implied by the word "Kipper"

6. In ancient cycles, they believed that what happend in the heavenly sanctuary was happening on the earthly sanctuary, and what was happening in the earthly was happening in the heavenly. Thus for something special to happen on earth meant for it to be happening in heaven....

7. Around the mid-1800's we start to find a change in Christianity... First, starting in the 1830's Edward Robinson began exploring the middle east and finding geographical locations of Biblical events. From this Archaeology was able to form. Also, at this time more scientific word studies of the scriptures developed, a better understanding of phrases and shades of meaning in phrases, which had begun to decrease the amount guess work in translation. And also the industral age which lead to where today we can listen to the Bible on tape and CD, see the books of Matthew and Acts on video. These things have caused us to be living in a day of more Biblical knowlege avaible than Luther, Usher, Wesley could ever have believed possible. If they could see our day, they would long to be alive today, and chide us for not taking advantage of it. There is an investigation of the pages of scripture that was NEVER BEFORE POSSIBLE no matter how much Luther may have longed for it. In the cyclic thought, this investigation on earth needs to also be going on in heaven. But this is not negative, but positive.

It was also in the mid-1800's that Protestantism split into Modernism, with their lack of belief in a personal God, and not seeing the Bible as trustworthy and historical and on the other hand Fundamentalism, which trusts in God and believes the Bible, but tends to fear that any what they would consider as an inperfection in the Bible would invalidate the whole thing, thus they fear studying too deeply and stay on a superficial level.

Today we have the Bible availble in translations written on a third grade reading level. Bible on tape and CD, Matthew and Acts on video and DVD. We have more information to study the Bible such as never before. But sadly there has never before been as much Biblical ignorance, not only of the common people, but even ourselves, my self included. (I thank God that even dispite my lack of taking the advantage that is avaible, at least I am doing some.)

But what is really sad is when you look at those who oppose the Investigative Judgment, you see that they tend to want to pretend that we have learned nothing more about the scriptures than we did in Luther's time. They study Luther, and even see the Wesleys as legalistic heretics. (They do not attack Wesley by name, but every once in a while you may here them try to sneek an attack on Arminianinism, which is what the Wesley's believed and developed).

The critics know Luther, but little of Willim Foxwell Albright. You do not often see the Anchor Bible on the shelves of the typical "Christian" book store. Desmond Ford understands Luther and Reformation Theology, but not the Baal epic and the culture of the Old Testament. Ford reads Daniel through the eyes of Luther and does not see the investigative judgment. I read Daniel through the eyes of King Danel and others from ancient culture, and the Investigative Judgment shines through.

Even worst are the louder opponents such as Ratslaf and Martin. When you look at their message, you find them coming up with excuses to do away with most of the Bible, so that all you are left with is an abridged version of Paul and (depending on how you see it's author) an abridged version of Hebrews, and they make their abridged version the WHOLE Bible, and then this abridged version can only be interpeted via Reformation Theology. How limiting and how sad. I don't know about you, but I can't picture Luther wanting to be compliant to just rest where he fell. If Ratslaf's understanding of how to use the Bible is heaven, I'd just as soon spend eternity in a literal fire hell, both that limited mental ignorance bliss and the phisical pain seem equally uninviting.

Can you picture a long distance relationship, where there was a letter from the beloved that has sections sniped out, more letters come, but the person only wants to read that one letter that had been sniped, and throws away the other letters with barely a glance, and the person say that if they were to read the other letters, or look at their beloved's picture, it might change the relationship. That is how the critics of the Investigative Atonement appear to me.

The investigative judgment does not lessen the cross, it opens the door for deeper understanding of the cross and he who was on the cross. It is the difference between living before the investigative judgment and living in the investigative judgement is the difference between corrisponding between your beloved through post office mail, and getting the chance to talk to your beloved on a computer with a webcam. It is still my beloved, it is still held together by the love of this loved one, it still makes a longing for the day when we see our beloved face to face in person, but there is a new level of connection in our long distance romance.

We are living in an age where we can dig deeper into the scriptures than ever before. We can investigate it's pages like never before. As we learn more about the scriptures, we will learn more about the God of the scriptures, and as we learn more about the God of the scriptures, by beholding we become changed. I find the investigative judgment one of the most exciting doctrines ever!

[This message has been edited by Kevin Hellerud (edited 01-16-2004).]



Richard Myers

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2004, 07:48:00 AM »
Brother Kevin, I think you have spoken a very important truth that we all can benefit from better understanding. In regards to the judgment you say "It bore with it an idea of one event that could have two different results. A classic kippor is the birth of Jesus, which brought one message to the Wise Men, and quite another to Herod. It was not God doing one good thing to the Magi and doing a sepperate bad thing to Herod, but the one single event that was incredably wonderful to the Magi and unspeakably horrible to Herod."

I agree that this is the case with the Day of Atonement when each person who professes to serve God has his name come up in the investigative judgment. You have described the situation very well. Those who have not yielded to the Lord Jesus Christ and who continue to hurt others and Christ will find the judgment unspeakably horrible. The Spirit convinces of "judgment". The ones that lives through it will call for rocks to fall upon them.

There is another group that rejoices over the judgment. Many of them also will call for the rocks to fall upon them. They are the ones to whom Jesus will say "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity. They believed in grace, but not justice. There is a third group that understands that justice and mercy met at the cross. They know that the Day of Atonement is a day to search the soul. They do not rejoice in that day, but rather search their hearts for sin that it may be put away. They know of their sins and they do not trust themselves. The closer they come to Christ the more they see the perfect standard. They know that they in and of themselves cannot match the standard. They do not set aside the law nor do they boast of their holiness. Instead they plead for the power of grace to obey the truth. By faith they enter into the Most Holy Place with their Saviour, not because they are worthy, but because Christ is. They know that in the judgment any unconfessed sin and unforsaken sin will cause them to lose heaven, but they mostly fear that if they have not confessed all their sins they will bring reproach upon the One they love so much.

If we would only study the truths of God's word, and do his will, we should know of the doctrine; we should not be ignorant of these important truths. We believe without a doubt that Christ is soon to come; and believing this we feel a necessity upon us to plead with men and women to prepare for the coming of the Son of Man. We do not want that any should be of that number who shall call for rocks and mountains to fall on them to hide them from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. We want all to be of that number who shall enter in through the gates into the city, who shall have an abundant entrance, and shall have the right to the tree of life. We want all to be of that company that shall bow before the throne of God crying, "Worthy, worthy, worthy, is the Lamb that was slain for us." We want all to be praising God with immortal tongues, and be saved with an everlasting salvation; and, therefore, Jesus warns all to flee from the wrath to come. We plead with all to perfect holiness in the fear of the Lord. It is perfection that is required; and nothing short of perfection will enable anyone to see the King in his beauty.

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Jean Miller

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #65 on: February 27, 2004, 06:09:00 PM »
I believe the Sanctuary message and the Investigative Judgment to be one of the most important messages for the last generation.  I have written an article which is a study on the Sanctuary and includes what happens on the Day of Atonement, or the Investigative Judgment Day. I know it is a bit lengthy, but it contains many beautiful quotes. Here it is for those of you who want to thoroughly study it out.

THE GOSPEL IN THE SANCTUARY

    “Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary.”  (Psalm 77:13)  The sanctuary in the Bible is simply an illustration of the gospel.  By studying the sanctuary we discover what God does to save us and also what our part is.  “Send thee help from the sanctuary.” (Psalm 20:2) The help that God sends from the sanctuary is the gospel. The sanctuary gives an incredible message of hope.

    The sanctuary is a representation of God’s people. “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”  (1 Corinthians 3:16)  “That temple, erected for the abode of the divine Presence, was designed to be an object lesson for Israel and for the world. From eternal ages it was God's purpose that every created being, from the bright and holy seraph to man, should be a temple for the indwelling of the Creator. Because of sin, humanity ceased to be a temple for God. Darkened and defiled by evil, the heart of man no longer revealed the glory of the Divine One. But by the incarnation of the Son of God, the purpose of Heaven is fulfilled. God dwells in humanity, and through saving grace the heart of man becomes again His temple. God designed that the temple at Jerusalem should be a continual witness to the high destiny open to every soul.”   (Desire of Ages, p. 161)  “”While the westering sun was tinting and gilding the heavens, its resplendent glory lighted up the pure white marble of the temple walls, and sparkled on its gold-capped pillars.  From the crest of the hill where Jesus and His followers stood, it had the appearance of a massive structure of snow, set with golden pinnacles.  At the entrance to the temple was a vine of gold and silver, with green leaves and massive clusters of grapes executed by the most skillful artists.  This design represented Israel as a prosperous vine.  The gold, silver, and living green were combined with rare taste and exquisite workmanship; as it twined gracefully about the white and glistening pillars, clinging with shining tendrils to their golden ornaments, it caught the splendor of the setting sun, shining as if with a glory borrowed from heaven.”  (Desire of Ages, p. 575) The gold in the temple represented faith and love.  “Those who enter the mansions which Christ has gone to prepare will be those who love God and keep his commandments. They must have the gold tried in the fire, the gold of faith and love.” (Advent Review & Sabbath Herald, July 28, 1891) The white marble represented the white robe of righteousness that God is going to clothe each of His people with.  (Matthew 22:12) “If you are to sit at Christ's table, and feast on the provisions he has furnished at the marriage supper of the Lamb, you must have a special garment, called the wedding garment, which is the white robe of Christ's righteousness.” (Youth’s Instructor, August 11, 1886)  Silver represents God’s children who have been purified. (Malachi 3:3, Zechariah 13:9)  Green represents God’s care for us.  “The living green that carpets the brown earth tells us of God's care for the humblest of His creatures.”  (My Life Today, p. 175)  Green is formed by combining yellow (the color of gold which represents faith and love) and blue (the color that represents God’s law according to Numbers 15:38,39).  Green, or emerald, is the color around God’s throne, representing the fact that God’s kingdom is based upon a combination of mercy and justice.  “Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.” (Psalm 85:10)  The entire sanctuary represents us and how God is going to transform us, scarred with the ugliness of sin, into a beautiful pure white temple for Him.

    When one entered the temple, the first object one saw in the outer courtyard was the altar where the lambs were slain.  This altar represents the cross where Jesus, the Lamb of God, died for our sins.  When we confess our sins, repent, and accept Jesus’ death for our sins we are justified.  “Repentance includes sorrow for sin and a turning away from it. We shall not renounce sin unless we see its sinfulness; until we turn away from it in heart, there will be no real change in the life.” (Steps to Christ, p. 23) According to Webster’s Dictionary the word justify means “to pronounce free from guilt or blame.”  Jesus’ blood covers our sins and God gives us righteousness on the credit card principle.  We are not yet righteous, but He counts us as righteous because Jesus’ blood is covering us.

    The next article in the courtyard was the laver where the priests washed before entering the temple.  This laver represents baptism.  After we accept Jesus into our lives we need to be baptized.

    After washing at the laver the priests entered the Holy Place of the sanctuary.  Here was contained the table of shewbread containing the twelve loaves of bread, the altar of incense, and the candlestick made of gold.  The bread represented Jesus, the Bread of Life.  It also represents the Word of God, because Jesus is the Word.  (John 6:48, John 1:1)  The altar of incense represented the prayers of God’s people ascending to heaven.  (Psalm 141:2)  The candlestick represented Jesus, the Light of the world. (John 8:12)  The oil in the candlestick represented the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 25:1-13)  “In the Scripture, oil is used as a symbol of the Holy Spirit.” (Signs of the Times, August 6, 1894)  The Holy Place represents sanctification.  According to Webster’s Dictionary, to sanctify means “to free from sin.”  “The work of sanctification is the work of a lifetime.”  (Selected Messages, Vol. 1, p. 317) We are sanctified through studying the Word of God represented by the bread, through prayer, represented by the incense, through Jesus, represented by the light, and through the Holy Spirit, represented by the oil.  

    The next part of the sanctuary was the Most Holy Place where the priest entered only once a year on the Day of Atonement, or Judgment Day.  The Most Holy Place represents purification.  At the judgment God will cleanse, purify, or perfect His children. According to Webster’s Dictionary the word perfect means “being without fault or defect.”  “And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you.  For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the Lord.”   (Leviticus 16:29,30)  “When I was shown the present condition of man in physical, mental, and moral power, and what he might become through the merits of Christ, I was astonished that he should preserve such a low level.  Man may grow up into Christ, his living head.  It is not the work of a moment, but that of a lifetime.  By growing daily in the divine life, he will not attain to the full stature of a perfect man in Christ until his probation ceases.”   (Testimonies, Vol. 4, p. 366-367)  Our probation ceases either when we die, or, for the last generation who are translated to heaven without seeing death, in the judgment.  Thus it is at the judgment that God perfects His people.  The judgment is a wonderful message of hope.  For this reason we should look forward to the judgment with joy, because this is when God perfects us.  

    The temple in Jesus’ day was covered with pure white marble.  The sanctuary in the wilderness had a wall around the courtyard made of white linen.  The effect was that when people looked at the temple they saw pure white.  This white represents glorification, which occurs at the Second Coming.  At the judgment our minds are perfected, but at the Second Coming are bodies are perfected and we are given the gift of immortality.  (1 Corinthians 15:51-54)  At that time, in both body and mind, God’s people completely reflect the image of Jesus.  According to Webster’s Dictionary the word glorify means “to raise to heavenly glory.”  

   Now that we have had a brief overview, let us go back and look at what occurs at the judgment in greater depth.  “And the serpent saith unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die; For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”  (Genesis 3:4-5)  When Satan told Eve that when she ate the fruit of the tree she would gain knowledge of evil, he was right.  “The only knowledge they gained by their disobedience was a knowledge of sin and its results.”   (SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 1, p. 1083) The knowledge of sin through experience is the definition of a sinful nature.  When this experiential knowledge is removed from our minds then we are purified, or perfected.  Removing sin from our minds is the work of the judgment.

    “For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.  For then would they not have ceased to be offered? Because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.”  (Hebrews 10:1-2) The subject of this text is obtaining perfection. The sacrificial system was not sufficient to make anyone perfect.  Then this text goes on to say that when God’s people are perfected (purged) they would have no more “conscience of sins.”  The word conscience, according to Strong’s Concordance, can also mean knowledge. This text is saying that when we are cleansed (perfected, purged) then we will have no more knowledge of sin because our sins have been removed from our minds.  Ellen White says the same. “So, in the time of trouble, if the people of God had unconfessed sins to appear before them while tortured with fear and anguish, they would be overwhelmed; despair would cut off their faith, and they could not have confidence to plead with God for deliverance. But while they have a deep sense of their unworthiness, they have no concealed wrongs to reveal.  Their sins have gone beforehand to judgment and have been blotted out, and they cannot bring them to remembrance.”  (Great Controversy, p. 620)  Note that they cannot remember any of their sins.

    In the Bible the words blot out, purge, and cleanse all mean the same thing and can be used interchangeably.  Here is the evidence.  “Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy loving kindness; according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.  Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.”  (Psalm 51:1-2,7)  When God cleanses us from all sin, which happens on our judgment day, then we are perfected.  What wonderful news!  This is the message of the Day of Atonement.

    One key to understanding the Bible is to make sure we understand the correct definitions of prominent words. According to Webster’s Dictionary, the word clean means “free from dirt or stains, free from foreign matter or pollutants, morally pure.”  The word cleanse means “to clean or purify.”  Purge means “to rid of impurities, to clear of imputed guilt.”  Purify means “to make pure, to free from guilt or evil.”  Perfect means “conforming absolutely to an ideal type, excellent or complete beyond improvement, without flaws, accurate in every detail.”  All of these words are very similar and can mean one and the same.  So when the Bible says that on the Day of Atonement we are cleansed of all sin, this means that sin has been completely eliminated from our lives; in other words, sin has no more part in our lives.  Blot means “a spot or stain, a blemish on a person’s reputation.”  Seal means “an emblem or symbol used as evidence of authenticity, anything that serves as assurance or confirmation, to decide irrevocably.” We are told that during the judgment our sins are blotted out, we are cleansed from all sin, and we are sealed. “When Jesus leaves the sanctuary, then they who are holy and righteous will be holy and righteous still; for all their sins will then be blotted out, and they will be sealed with the seal of the living God.” (Early Writings, p. 48)  “The work of the investigative judgment and the blotting out of sins is to be accomplished before the second advent of the Lord. Since the dead are to be judged out of the things written in the books, it is impossible that the sins of men should be blotted out until after the judgment at which their cases are to be investigated. But the apostle Peter distinctly states that the sins of believers will be blotted out ‘when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and He shall send Jesus Christ.’ Acts 3:19, 20. When the investigative judgment closes, Christ will come, and His reward will be with Him to give to every man as his work shall be.” (Great Controversy, p. 485) When we are sealed our names are put into the Book of Life and our case is closed forever; we are eternally saved.  After that point, we will not sin again. Because if we did, then God would have to re-decide our case, would He not?  The Bible never speaks of being judged a second time; thus God’s people will not sin after they are judged.  The only way God’s people will not sin is if they have been given the perfect nature, because currently all our righteousness is as filthy rags, as seen in the following quote.

    "The religious services, the prayers, the praise, the penitent confession of sin ascend from true believers as incense to the heavenly sanctuary, but passing through the corrupt channels of humanity, they are so defiled that unless purified by blood, they can never be of value with God. They ascend not in spotless purity, and unless the Intercessor, who is at God's right hand, presents and purifies all by His righteousness, it is not acceptable to God. All incense from earthly tabernacles must be moist with the cleansing drops of the blood of Christ. He holds before the Father the censer of His own merits, in which there is no taint of earthly corruption. He gathers into this censer the prayers, the praise, and the confessions of His people, and with these He puts His own spotless righteousness. Then, perfumed with the merits of Christ's propitiation, the incense comes up before God wholly and entirely acceptable. Then gracious answers are returned."  (Selected Messages, Vol.1, p. 344)

    This quote is speaking of the state of God’s true believers while praying.  These people are not willfully sinning, yet they are so corrupt that their prayers have to be purified with the blood of Jesus before they can be presented to the Father.  Our very being is corrupt and rotten to the inner core. As long as we are in the sinful nature our every act and thought has some selfishness buried in it somewhere. Here are some more quotes that give more light into the sinful nature we now have. “…when the light from Christ shines into our souls, we shall see how impure we are; we shall discern the selfishness of motive, the enmity against God, that has defiled every act of life. Then we shall know that our own righteousness is indeed as filthy rags, and that the blood of Christ alone can cleanse us from the defilement of sin, and renew our hearts in His own likeness.”  (Steps to Christ, pp. 28-29)  The cleansing process of our minds begins when we come to Jesus and confess our sins (justification), continues as we grow in Jesus (sanctification), and is completed when we are cleansed of all sin and sealed at the judgment (purification). At the Second Coming our bodies will be changed and we will be given immortality (glorification). See 1 Corinthians 15:51-54. This glorification is represented by the white marble covering Solomon’s temple.  It is also represented by the white wall surrounding the sanctuary in the wilderness.  It is possible under sanctification to come to the point where we no longer willfully sin; however, our very nature and being is still sin. “By nature we are alienated from God.”   (Steps to Christ, p. 43)  Even when we are not willfully sinning, we are in a state of sin which pervades our every act of life.  “…because of his (Adam’s) sin our natures are fallen, and we cannot make ourselves righteous.”  (Steps to Christ, p. 62)  “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.”  (Isaiah 64:6) This is why Paul exclaimed, “O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”  (Romans 7:24)   Paul answered his question, “I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 7:25) Yes, Jesus delivers us from this body of death in the judgment, when He blots out all our sins and seals us.

    Jones & Waggoner presented the message of Righteousness by Faith, which was rejected in the 1888 Minneapolis Conference.  At least part of their message was what happens when our sins are blotted out in the judgment and we are sealed. Consider the following quote written by Waggoner.  "We need to be on our guard against the idea that the blotting out of sin is merely as the passing of a sponge over a slate, or an entry in a ledger to balance the account.  This is not the blotting out of sin.  An ignorant man who saw a thermometer for the first time thought to lessen the heat by breaking it.  But how much effect did this have upon the weather?  Just as much as the wiping out of the record of his sin has upon the sinner.  The tearing of a leaf out of a book, or even the burning of the book containing the record, does not blot out the sin.  The sin is not blotted out by blotting out the account of it, any more than throwing my Bible into the fire abolishes the Word of God.  There was a time when all the Bibles that could be found were destroyed; but the Word of God--the truth--remained just the same, because truth is God Himself; it is His life...The blotting out of sin is the erasing of it from the nature, the being, of man.  The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses from all sin. Our bodies are but the channel, the border, the sand upon the shore, of the river of life...The erasing of sin is the blotting of it from our natures, so that we shall know it no more.  'The worshipers once purged'--actually purged by the blood of Christ--have 'no more conscience of sin,' because the way of sin is gone from them.  Their iniquity may be sought for, but it will not be found.  It is forever gone from them,--it is foreign to their new natures, and even though they may be able to recall the fact that they have committed certain sins, they have forgotten the sin itself--they do not think of doing it any more.  This is the work of Christ in the true sanctuary, which the Lord pitched, and not man--the sanctuary not made with hands, but brought into existence by the thought of God."  [Emphasis added]   (Written by E.J. Waggoner, Review & Herald, Sept. 30, 1902)

    Many years ago I wondered what the cleansing of the sanctuary did for me personally.  At that time I thought that the cleansing of the sanctuary was the removal of the sins of God’s people from the heavenly sanctuary.  If Jesus is removing the sins of His people from the records of heaven, how does that impact me personally?  When I discovered that the cleansing of the sanctuary also means cleansing me of all sin, and perfecting me, as Waggoner just stated, then I realized that what Jesus is doing in the sanctuary is of great importance to me.  

    The following quote states that when Jesus cleanses the sanctuary in heaven He is also cleansing us from all sin. “You will talk and we will not be thinking of ourselves and what others are doing, but what God and Jesus are doing…What are they doing?  They are cleansing the sanctuary of our souls of all unrighteousness, that our names may be written in the Lamb’s book of life, that our sins may be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.”  (Lift Him Up, p. 216)
 
    The times of refreshing, or the latter rain, comes during the Great Tribulation before probation closes.  “’The commencement of that time of trouble,’ here mentioned does not refer to the time when the plagues shall begin to be poured out, but to a short period just before they are poured out, while Christ is in the sanctuary. At that time, while the work of salvation is closing, trouble will be coming on the earth, and the nations will be angry, yet held in check so as not to prevent the work of the third angel. At that time the ‘latter rain,’ or refreshing from the presence of the Lord, will come, to give power to the loud voice of the third angel, and prepare the saints to stand in the period when the seven last plagues shall be poured out.”  (Early Writings, pp. 85-86)  The Bible tells us the same in the book of Joel.  The fulfillment of the book of Joel occurs during the Great Tribulation before probation closes.  Joel 2:1-11 states that the time is the Great Tribulation, and Joel 2:32 tells us that salvation is still open.  In between these two texts Joel speaks of the latter rain in verse 23.

    God also uses the latter rain to perfect His people.  “As we seek God for the Holy Spirit, it will work in us meekness, humbleness of mind, a conscious dependence upon God for the perfecting latter rain.” (Last Day Events, p. 187)

    Several years ago I looked up every Ellen White quote that contained the word blot and every derivative of blot such as blotting and blotted.  I wanted to find out everything it takes to get one’s sins blotted out.  All I could find was that our sins must be confessed and repented of. The following is a representative quote. “In the typical service, when the work of atonement was performed by the high priest in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary, the people were required to afflict their souls before God, and confess their sins, that they might be atoned for and blotted out. Will any less be required of us in this antitypical day of atonement, when Christ in the sanctuary above is pleading in behalf of His people, and the final, irrevocable decision is to be pronounced upon every case?”  (Selected Messages, Vol. 1, p. 125)  “Repentance includes sorrow for sin, and a turning away from it.”  (Steps to Christ, p. 23) “Only those who, in their attitude before God, are filling the position of those who are repenting and confessing their sins in the great anti-typical day of atonement, will be recognized and marked as worthy of God’s protection. The names of those who are steadfastly looking and waiting and watching for the appearing of their Saviour—more earnestly and wishfully than they who wait for the morning—will be numbered with those who are sealed.”  (Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, p. 445)

    In the judgment, when our sins are blotted out, we are sealed.  This sealing places us beyond the power of Satan. "I saw Satan would work more powerfully now than ever he has before. He knows that his time is short and that the sealing of the saints will place them beyond his power." (Manuscript Release, Vol. 8, p. 220)  How does the sealing place us beyond the power of Satan?  If we are given the new nature when we are sealed, then Satan’s temptations will have no more power over us.  In a sinful nature it is easier to do evil than to do good; however in a perfect nature it is easier to do good than to do evil (which is why God says it is a mystery as to how sin ever started).  If it is easier to do good than evil, and after God’s people have personally witnessed over and over what evil does to this world, is sin going to have any more allurements for them?  I think not!

    “Jesus is in His holy temple and will now accept our sacrifices, our prayers, and our confessions of faults and sins and will pardon all the transgressions of Israel, that they may be blotted out before He leaves the sanctuary. When Jesus leaves the sanctuary, then they who are holy and righteous will be holy and righteous still; for all their sins will then be blotted out, and they will be sealed with the seal of the living God. But those that are unjust and filthy will be unjust and filthy still; for then there will be no Priest in the sanctuary to offer their sacrifices, their confessions, and their prayers before the Father's throne. Therefore what is done to rescue souls from the coming storm of wrath must be done before Jesus leaves the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary.” (Early Writings, p. 48)

    As long as we are in this sinful nature we need a Mediator.  If even our best prayers need the mediatorial work of Jesus before these prayers can be presented to the Father, then our sinful nature has to be changed before Jesus leaves the sanctuary and probation closes forever. After Jesus leaves the sanctuary, He will no longer mediate for sin.  God’s people will not sin during the time of the seven last plagues since there is no Mediator, otherwise they will be forever lost.  We are “corrupt channels” and even our best prayers are also corrupt because “they ascend not in spotless purity.” (Selected Messages, Vol. 1, p. 344) Our “corrupt channels,” or sinful natures, have to be changed or we will not be able to stand for one moment after the close of probation without sinning, because our very being is sinful.  Our best efforts are as filthy rags.  Our only hope to be able to stand during this time without a mediator is to have these “corrupt channels” removed and to be given the new nature.

    “An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received ‘the seal of the living God.’ Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands and with a loud voice says, ‘It is done;’ and all the angelic host lay off their crowns as He makes the solemn announcement: ‘He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.’ Revelation 22:11. Every case has been decided for life or death.”  (Great Controversy, p. 613)

    If Jesus has the power to give us the new nature at the Second Coming as so many believe now, then He has the power to give us this new nature in time to help us when He will no longer mediate and before His Second Coming.  It would be cruel of Jesus to tell us we must not sin during the time of the seven last plagues because He is no longer mediating for us and then leave us in our sinful nature. Our best efforts are still sinful as long as we are in the sinful nature. If even the prayers of God’s true believers are so corrupt they need a Mediator, then something has to change or we will not be able to stand during the seven last plagues without a Mediator. When God’s true believers are praying, they are not in the act of willfully sinning, yet their prayers are still corrupt.

    “So, in the time of trouble, if the people of God had unconfessed sins to appear before them while tortured with fear and anguish, they would be overwhelmed; despair would cut off their faith, and they could not have confidence to plead with God for deliverance. But while they have a deep sense of their unworthiness, they have no concealed wrongs to reveal.  Their sins have gone beforehand to judgment and have been blotted out, and they cannot bring them to remembrance.”   (Great Controversy, p. 620)  God’s people cannot bring their sins to remembrance because these sins have been forever removed from their minds.  Their “corrupt channels” have been removed and their new natures given to them.

    “Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God’s commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression.” (SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 6, p.  1118)  “There is no change of character when Christ comes.”  (Review and Herald, August 25, 1885)  If we will reach the condition of sinlessness that Adam had before the fall, and if our characters are not changed at the Second Coming, then we must reach Adam’s pre-fall nature before the Second Coming. The change of character, when we are sealed and our new natures are given us, is done on judgment day.  Some say that I am using the words character and nature interchangeably and should not do so.  However, according to Webster’s Dictionary these two words are interchangeable.  Here is Webster’s Dictionary’s definition of character.  "The aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of a person or thing." Here is Webster’s Dictionary’s definition of nature.  "The inherent character of a person, animal, or thing."  According to Webster's, one's character is one's nature, and one's nature is one's character.  One cannot separate the two. Since “There is no change of character when Christ comes,” then there is no change of nature when Christ comes, since the two words mean one and the same.

    When Jesus stands up in the sanctuary at the close of probation He pronounces the following words, “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.”  (Revelation 22:11) According to Webster’s Dictionary the word righteous means “acting in an upright, moral way.” The word holy means “spiritually pure.” Jesus has finished the judgment, He has finished sealing all of His people, and He declares them righteous and holy because they are.  The only way they can be holy is if He has given them their new nature.  The whole point of the sanctuary is to show us how God deals with the sin in us and how He removes the sin from us. The reason we need to know this is so we know what we need to do and when.  In order to be saved we must cooperate with  Him.  For instance, unless we repent, we cannot be justified.  Unless we spend time with God in prayer and Bible study, we cannot be sanctified, because “we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”  (2 Corinthians 3:18) All those who are sanctified are perfected (Hebrews 10:14), and this perfecting (purifying, cleansing) is done on judgment day, and given as a free gift to those who are in the process of sanctification. What wonderful news!  God’s people will have nothing wherein to glory, because Jesus is the one who has given them this wonderful gift.  All praise, honor, and glory goes to Him who does such marvelous things for His people!

    The dead are given this gift of perfection after they are in the grave so that when they rise up at the resurrection they are perfect.  This happens during the judgment of the dead, which is now going on and has been since The Day of Atonement in 1844.  

    Some believe the teaching that we receive the new nature at the judgment is the “holy flesh” doctrine that Ellen White warned us against.  The people who believed in this “holy flesh” doctrine believed that it was impossible for them to sin and they would never die. (Selected Messages, Vol. 2, p. 31)  Since it was impossible for them to sin, they could do whatever they felt like and it would not be sin.  They then began to follow their own desires and soon fell into gross immorality.  What these people were teaching was false because we are never removed from being able to sin.  If having a perfect nature means that it is impossible for us to sin then Lucifer, who was created perfect  (Ezekiel 28:15), would not have been able to sin.  Throughout eternity God’s people will still have the power of choice.  They could still choose to sin.  To remove this power of choice would be to make God’s people more like a machine than a free person.  However, God’s people will not choose to sin. See Nahum 1:9.  Why?  Should anyone ever be tempted, one of us from earth will explain that this terrible experiment has already been tried.  We are God's insurance plan that sin never arises again.

    In reference to this “holy flesh” doctrine, Ellen White wrote, “And while we cannot claim perfection of the flesh, we may have Christian perfection of the soul.”  (Selected Messages, Vol. 2, p. 32)  The perfection of our souls begins with justification at the foot of the cross, carries on through sanctification during the work of the lifetime, and ends with being perfected on the Day of Atonement, at which time Jesus declares us righteous and holy. See Revelation 22:11.  Our bodies will become perfected and receive immortality at the Second Coming. See 1 Corinthians 15:53, 54.

    Zechariah also speaks of the cleansing, or purification, that happens on the Day of Atonement.  “And He shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.  And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan: even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?  Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments (sinful nature), and stood before the angel.  And He answered and spake unto those that stood before Him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him.  And unto him He said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment (new nature)…And I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.” (Zechariah 3:1-4, 9)  [Parentheses inserted] Our iniquity is removed on judgment day.

    “Zechariah’s vision of Joshua and the Angel applies with peculiar force to the experience of God’s people in the closing up of the great day of atonement…The people of God are sighing and crying for the abominations done in the land.  With tears they warn the wicked of their danger in trampling upon the divine law, and with unutterable sorrow they humble themselves before the Lord on account of their own transgressions.  The wicked mock their sorrow, ridicule their solemn appeals, and sneer at what they term their weakness. But the anguish and humiliation of God’s people is unmistakable evidence that they are regaining the strength and nobility of character lost in consequence of sin.  It is because they are drawing nearer to Christ, and their eyes are fixed upon His perfect purity, that they so clearly discern the exceeding sinfulness of sin…As the people of God afflict their souls before Him, pleading for purity of heart, the command is given, ‘Take away the filthy garments’ from them, and the encouraging words are spoken, ‘Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.’  The spotless robe of Christ’s righteousness is placed upon the tried, tempted, yet faithful children of God.  The despised remnant are clothed in glorious apparel, nevermore to be defiled by the corruptions of the world.  Their names are retained in the Lamb’s book of life, enrolled among the faithful of all ages.  They have resisted the wiles of the deceiver; they have not been turned from their loyalty by the dragon’s roar.  Now they are eternally secure from the tempter’s devices.  Their sins are transferred to the originator of sin.  And the remnant are not only pardoned and accepted, but honored.  ‘A fair miter’ is set upon their heads.  They are to be as kings and priests unto God.  While Satan was urging his accusations and seeking to destroy this company, holy angels, unseen, were passing to and fro, placing upon them the seal of the living God…’And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even everyone that is written among the living in Jerusalem.’” [Emphasis added]  (Testimonies, Vol. 5, pp. 472-476)    If God’s remnant people are “clothed in glorious apparel, nevermore to be defiled by the corruptions of the world,” then they will no longer sin after this point or else they would be defiled.  As long as we have a sinful nature, we are defiled; therefore, when God’s people are sealed the sinful nature must be removed from them.

     “When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.”  (Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 69) Have you ever wondered how this would happen?  Look around and see the elderly who have had many years in this world to perfect their characters and you will not see any of them being perfect.  The obvious question is, How then can I ever become perfect so that Jesus may come?  The answer is that Jesus gives us this gift of perfection at the judgment and He gives this gift to all who are in the process of being sanctified. See Hebrews 10:14.  

    Just as the Bible clearly tells us when the judgment of the dead began, so the Bible also clearly tells us when the judgment of the living will begin.  The message announcing the  judgment given by the first angel in Revelation 14:6-7 will be again repeated with great power, just before the judgment of the living begins.  God does not let such important dates go by unnoticed.  When our sins are blotted out, then we are sealed.  This all happens when we are judged. (See earlier discussion in this section.)  “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.”  (Acts 3:19)  We are refreshed by water.  In the Bible the outpouring of the Holy Spirit is compared to water.  “For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground; I will pour My Spirit upon thy seed, and My blessing upon thine offspring.”  (Isaiah 44:3) “He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.”  (Psalm 72:6)  “Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: His going forth is prepared as the morning; and He shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.”  (Hosea 6:3)  “That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.”  (Deuteronomy 11:14)  In the Bible God compares His people to grain that is planted in the field, which grows, and gives a harvest.  The harvest of God’s people occurs at the Second Coming. See Matthew 13:24-43.  God sends the early rain to cause the grain, or God’s people, to grow spiritually, and then the latter rain is sent to mature the  harvest just before the Second Coming of Jesus.  The early rain of the Holy Spirit was sent at Pentecost shortly after Jesus ascended to heaven.  See Acts 2:1-4.  The Holy Spirit will again be poured out in great measure just before the end of this world.  The prophet Joel tells us that this latter rain of the Holy Spirit will be poured out during the Great Tribulation.  The whole book of Joel is set during this Great Tribulation. Compare Joel 2:1-2,11 with Daniel 12:1.  During this Great Tribulation, the latter rain of the Holy Spirit is poured out.  “Be glad then, ye children of  Zion, and rejoice in the Lord your God: for He hath given you the former rain moderately, and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.” (Joel 2:23)  The word month in the preceding text is italicized, meaning the translators added this word and it was not in the original writing of the Bible.  Going back to Acts 3:19, which states that our sins are blotted out during the latter rain of the Holy Spirit, since we already know that the sins are blotted out during the judgment and the latter rain occurs during the Great Tribulation, we can then conclude that the judgment of the living will begin during the Great Tribulation.

    The judgment of the living begins during the refreshing, or latter rain of the Holy Spirit, which happens during the Great Tribulation.  The last generation is the only generation to receive this wonderful gift while they are still alive.  This gift enables them to go through the seven last plagues, which happens after the close of probation, without a mediator, and without sinning.  God’s people cannot sin during that time because there is no mediator.  God knows this and so He gives them the gift of perfection before the close of probation.  When we are perfect then it is easier to do good than to do evil.  God’s people by this time will despise evil so much that they are no longer tempted by evil.

    The Day of Atonement also teach us other lessons.  The following is an example.  Some say that the Bible does not forbid the wearing of jewelry and cite such texts as the parable of the prodigal son in which the Father (who represents God), puts a ring on His son’s finger when His son returns.  In heaven before his fall, Lucifer wore jewelry. See Ezekiel 28:13. We will wear crowns of gold in heaven, which is also jewelry.  When we truly understand the Day of Atonement we learn the real reason why we should not wear jewelry now.  We have been living in the antitypical Day of Atonement since 1844.  Leviticus 16:30 says that on the Day of Atonement we are to be cleansed.  In studying the words cleanse and clean through the Bible we find Genesis 35:1-4, where part of being clean meant to remove their jewelry.  Isaiah 3:16-23 says the daughters of Zion have become haughty and then lists out all the jewelry they are wearing as a result of their haughtiness. Just a few verses later, in Isaiah 4:4, God says that He will wash away the filth (part of which is wearing jewelry according to the verses just quoted) of the daughters of Zion “by the spirit of judgment.”  The judgment of the dead began on the Day of Atonement in 1844.  God is telling us that while living in the Day of Atonement we are not to wear jewelry.  In Isaiah 3:24-25 the fate of those who refuse to remove their jewelry is stated.  “And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty.  Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.”  

    Ellen White has a very interesting comment about the verses just quoted.  “The prophecy of Isaiah 3 was presented before me as applying to these last days, and the reproofs are given to the daughters of Zion who have thought only of appearance and display. Read verse 25: ‘Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.’ I was shown that this scripture will be strictly fulfilled.”  (Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 270)

    The reason why God does not want us to wear jewelry now is because the last generation has to face the greatest of Satan’s deceptions and the most difficult times of earth’s history while still remaining faithful to God.  The only purpose for jewelry is for love of appearance; except for watches, jewelry has no practical purpose.  In a sinful state the love of appearance fosters pride.  In a perfect state we will be able to handle wearing jewelry without being tempted to sin.

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge, and though I  have all faith so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.  1 Corinthians 13:2

Richard Myers

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #66 on: March 01, 2004, 05:41:00 AM »
Dear sister, could you explain the condition of the heart at baptism?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Ele Holmes

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2004, 05:33:00 AM »
The subject of the sanctuary and the investigative judgment should be clearly understood by the people of God.  All need a knowledge for themselves of the position and work of their great High Priest.  Otherwise, it will be impossible for them to exercise the faith which is essential at this time, or to occupy  the position which God designs them to fill.  Every individual has a soul to save or to lose.  Each has a case pending at the bar of God.   Ev. 221

In the parable of Matthew 22 the same figure of the marriage is introduced, and the investgative judgment is clearly represented as taking place before the marriage.  Previous to the wedding the king comes in to see the guests, to see if all are attired in the wedding garment, the spotless robe of character washed and made white in the blood of the Lamb.  He who is found wanting is cast out, but all who are seen to have the wedding garment on are accepted of God and accounted worthy of a share in His kingdom.... GC 428

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Richard Myers

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2004, 04:42:00 PM »
Amen, Sister Ele!

Character is something that is received and formed prior to the coming of Christ. If when we go into the grave, we have not a perfected character we shall not go home with the Lord.

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

M.A. Crawford

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2004, 03:51:00 PM »
"Throughout eternity God's people will still have the power of choice. They could still choose to sin."

Ms. Miller, it is true that throughout eternity God's people will have the power of choice, but I do not agree with your statement that during eternity God's people could still choose to sin because it is contrary to what the Bible teaches. The Bible VERY CLEARLY tells us:

"What do you imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up a second time." Nahum 1:9.

The Bible very clearly states that the Lord will make an utter end: AFFLICTION SHALL NOT RISE UP A SECOND TIME!!! And there is a reason why sin shall not rise up a second time:

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1.

Please notice that the Bible says the day is coming that shall burn them (sin and sinners) up, LEAVING THEM NEITHER ROOT NOR BRANCH!!! And if there will be neither root nor branch, then there will be NO POINT OF REFERENCE from which sin can arise a second time! All who enter into God's Kingdom WILL HAVE OVERCOME SIN IN THIS LIFE for all eternity. There will be no SMOLDERING EMBERS OF POTENTIAL SIN entering into God's Holy Realm.

M.A.

M.A.

Ele Holmes

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2004, 05:15:00 PM »
Amen  M.A.
 "The death of Christ upon the cross made sure the destruction of him who has the power of death, who was the originator of sin.  When Satan is destroyed, there will be none to tempt to evil, the atonement will never need to be repeated, and there will be no danger of another rebellion in the universe of God.  That which alone can effectually restrain from sin in this world of darkness, WILL PREVENT SIN IN HEAVEN."    5BC  1132

"The habits of speech, the character of our actions, put a mold upon us, and that which we cultivate in our association with others in this life, goes down into the grave with us, and will be UNCHANGED when we shall come up from the grave....."  ST 11-14-92

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Jean Miller

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #71 on: March 13, 2004, 05:52:00 AM »
Richard, you asked for the condition of the heart at baptism.  At baptism, a person has been justified, and the process of sanctification is beginning.  Should that person die at that time they are saved because they are covered by the blood of Jesus.

M.A. Crawford, I totally agree with you that sin will never enter the universe again.  I am familiar with the quotes that you quoted and I believe them.  What I was meaning is that God does NOT take away the power of choice.  We could still choose to sin, but we will not, because we know the horrible results of sin.  In fact, I believe that we are God's insurance plan that sin will never rise again, because, should someone in the eons down the road ever be tempted, we will be there to say, "That experimented has been tried and this is the horrible result.  We experienced it and saw it ourselves and you don't want to try that."  

M.A. Crawford--do you believe that in heaven we will no longer have the power of choice?  Ellen White makes it clear that God has given us the power of choice--because if He didn't, then we would be more like a machine or a robot.  In fact, here is her quote that says this:  

"There are thousands today echoing the same rebellious complaint against God. They do not see that to deprive man of the freedom of choice would be to rob him of his prerogative as an intelligent being and make him a mere automaton. It is not God's purpose to coerce the will. Man was created a free moral agent. Like the inhabitants of all other worlds, he must be subjected to the test of obedience; but he is never brought into such a position that yielding to evil becomes a matter of necessity. No temptation or trial is permitted to come to him which he is unable to resist. God made such ample provision that man need never have been defeated in the conflict with Satan."--PP 331, 332 (1890).

[This message has been edited by Jean Miller (edited 03-13-2004).]

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge, and though I  have all faith so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.  1 Corinthians 13:2

Liane H

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2004, 08:28:00 AM »
Hi Sister Jean:

I am taking a liberity here to repeat your statement in the above post:

"I believe that we are God's insurance plan that sin will never rise again, because, should someone in the eons down the road ever be tempted, we will be there to say, That experimented has been tried and this is the horrible result. We experienced it and saw it ourselves and you don't want to try that."

We are never to look to other men here or in the life of eternity with God. What we will see for all eternity is what will never allow sin to rise again:

"The Lord Jesus, who is the image of the invisible God, gave His own life to save perishing man, and, oh, what light, what power, He brings with Him! In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead, bodily. What a mystery of mysteries! It is difficult for the reason to grasp the majesty of Christ, the mystery of redemption. The shameful cross has been upraised, the nails have been driven through His hands and feet, the cruel spear has pierced to His heart, and the redemption price has been paid for the human race. The spotless Lamb of God bore our sins in His own body upon the tree; He carried our sorrows.  {1SM 402.4}

If this does not stop us from sinning or anyone in the universe, then nothing will.

Liane

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Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Jean Miller

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #73 on: March 13, 2004, 02:28:00 PM »
I agree with you  Sister Liane.  The nail prints in Jesus' hands will be the biggest deterrent to sin rising again.  I believe that God will also use our testimony as well.  I believe it is both.
"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge, and though I  have all faith so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.  1 Corinthians 13:2

Sister Glass

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #74 on: March 13, 2004, 03:44:00 PM »
It will indeed be both sister Jean. We will never forget or stop talking about what Jesus has done for us.  :)

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With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

With Christian Love,
Marie

Liane H

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #75 on: March 13, 2004, 04:01:00 PM »
I wonder about this myself. Let us read Revelation:

21:1   And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.  
21:2   And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.  
21:3   And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.  
21:4   And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.  

If all former things have passed away. God shall wipe away our tears, there will be no more death, nor sorrow or cyring, nor pain afor all former things are passed away.

What shall we remember I wonder? Will we remember how we sinned against God? How we suffered from illness, pain and death? Would not seeing those marks on His hands bring tears to our eyes? Will we remember what caused them?

I do wonder!

Liane

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Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Richard Myers

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #76 on: March 13, 2004, 05:00:00 PM »
Sister Jean, when your name comes up in the investigative judgment will your thoughts and deeds be examined?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Sister Glass

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2004, 08:40:00 PM »
Sister Liane's Comment

What shall we remember I wonder? Will we remember how we sinned against God? How we suffered from illness, pain and death? Would not seeing those marks on His hands bring tears to our eyes? Will we remember what caused them?
=============================
I believe there will be just what is needed to be left in our memories so we can praise God forever for our Salvation. However, when we remember, it will not be with tears, it will be with GREAT JOY! There will be no more pain, no more tears, only joy in whatever we remember. I feel it is the pain and the sorrow, the tears that are all wiped away, and with it things that would bring sad painful tears to us. But forever we will recall how Jesus saved us and what He and the Father/Holy Spirit went through to do this.

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With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

With Christian Love,
Marie

Jean Miller

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2004, 06:24:00 AM »
Of course, Brother Richard, all who profess the name of Jesus will have their thoughts and deeds examined, and since I profess the name of Jesus, then yes, mine will be examined as well.

The Bible does not tell us exactly what we will remember after the millennium, but Ellen White does tell us what we will remember after we are sealed.  Here it is:

“So, in the time of trouble, if the people of God had unconfessed sins to appear before them while tortured with fear and anguish, they would be overwhelmed; despair would cut off their faith, and they could not have confidence to plead with God for deliverance. But while they have a deep sense of their unworthiness, they have no concealed wrongs to reveal.  Their sins have gone beforehand to judgment and have been blotted out, and they cannot bring them to remembrance.”   (Great Controversy, p. 620)  

I believe that in heaven we will not be able to remember our individual sins because they have been blotted out of the books of heaven and out of our minds.  However, since we will be able to view the nail prints in the hands of Jesus forever, I believe we will remember the horrible effects of sin and that is why we will never be tempted to sin again and sin will never rise again.  

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge, and though I  have all faith so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.  1 Corinthians 13:2

Sister Glass

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #79 on: March 15, 2004, 07:39:00 AM »
We will see those scares in Jesus hands,feet and side forever. And He will be like us forever. Both would be rather meaningless if we did not remember "anything" that would tell us the story of those scares in our own life.

Another thought, We are told that we will witness the saving grace of Christ to us personally, to all the other worlds throughout time. The love and forgiveness Christ showered on us. His walk with death and suffering and betrayal, all for us. We would have nothing "personally" to witness if we did not remember what Jesus did for us personally. But our witness will be with great joy and there will be no sorrow in our voice as we tell it.

I do not doubt that love ones lost will be wiped away after the thousand years in which we go through the books. Then we will understand why some of those we love did not make it and we will be a peace with it. I don't know if all that will be wiped away afterwards or not. Sees like a waste of time if the memory of them is going to be taken away anyway. (They will be judged true) I'm not sure on these things, but the reasons above make me feel that at least our personal experience with the Lord's saving us will always be remembered so we can give witness to it for eternity, as we are told we will do.

------------------
With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

With Christian Love,
Marie