Author Topic: Investigative Judgment  (Read 72742 times)

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colporteur

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #280 on: May 01, 2012, 07:29:18 AM »
Very simply billy, do you believe Revelation 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." 
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colporteur

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #281 on: May 02, 2012, 06:44:29 AM »
Very simply billy, do you believe Revelation 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." 

I think this was a difficult text and question for billy. It ought not be. It is Scripture. It is straight forward.

For those who believe God's Word the question is not "what do you think?" "What do some people say?" or  "can you show me someone who proves that God's Word is correct?"  The question is not "has it happened?", "is it happening?" or "will it happen?"    The question for a believer is "will I be among those who keep the commandments of God  and have the faith of Jesus?"

Notice that the "faith of Jesus" goes hand in hand with keeping the commandments. If we do not have that faith we will not be keeping the commandments.
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Richard Myers

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #282 on: June 09, 2012, 02:45:41 PM »
Amen! And that is just the point in the IJ.  If we have saving faith, we will be keeping the commandments to the degree that we know them. More than that, we shall be doing what we know to be right. The heart will have been purified so that our motives are holy and just and good. We may eat the wrong food, wear the wrong clothes, speak the wrong words, but if the heart is given to Christ, then we are His and will be in His kingdom. Day by day the Christian will grow in grace and learn to more perfectly reflect the character of our Lord. But, that does not allow for the Christian to sin and remain connected to God. No. Sin reveals a separation between man and God. Christ does not sin. If Christ be in us, then we shall manifest all of the fruits of His Spirit and none of the works of the flesh.

Today, if we sin, we still have a Saviour who is interceding in behalf of sinners.  But, soon, very soon, Jesus will cease interceding for sinners. Why? Because interceding will do no good. Why? Because all have made their final decision and their characters are fixed. Not because God made them that way, but because we choose whom we shall serve. And, our daily works create habits, and habits form character.  At a point in life, those who have continually rejected the pleading of Christ through the Holy Spirit will have hardened their hearts to the point where they can no longer hear Him. Then, there is no point in speaking to him. He is eternally lost because he is settled into the truth and cannot be moved ever again. Very sad.

The judgment when the books are opened will testify to who it is that has hardened their hearts and who it is that received a new heart and loves God and keeps His commandments. It is just that simple.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

colporteur

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #283 on: June 09, 2012, 04:00:33 PM »
Today we drove 90 minutes to perhaps the most faithful church in the area. And yet a woman stood up front in church during superintendent's remarks and said she heard a pastor say something the other day that was a wonderful Revelation to her. He said that sin is not the wrong things we do but it is not believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. i passed a note to my wife replying " Satan believes that."  Under that definition of sin Satan is not a sinner. He believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. It is becoming fashionable to believe that we need only believe and we are cleared, forgiven, and saved.

This is just alittle off the IJ topic but not entirely. The pastor at this church believes that all music is neutral and while he leads out in a study on Revelation one night a week he would not identify the anti-christ or the beast power. He said that we cannot say because we are not sure.(speak for yourself) He is a young pastor and likely he got that from some leavened professor in school. If we do not know who the beast is how can we know what the mark of the beast is ? If we do not know this we cannot give third Angel's Message of Revelation 14.  That being the case there is little reason to teach Revelation and a good part of our reason for existing as a church is gone.
 
So we have sinning that is not sin and are scratching our head about the role of the papacy in prophecy ?  There is more than one way to make void the IJ.     
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Mimi

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #284 on: June 09, 2012, 04:44:47 PM »
Some deranged among us say strange things that are not necessarily representational of the congregation. I pray that is the case here.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

JimB

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #285 on: May 17, 2014, 11:25:55 AM »
I did not take the time to go back and read all 15 pages of posts to see if this was addressed but I wanted to share a thought about a passage from the Desire of Ages I read earlier this week. Here is the statement...

The warfare against God's law, which was begun in heaven, will be continued until the end of time. Every man will be tested. Obedience or disobedience is the question to be decided by the whole world. All will be called to choose between the law of God and the laws of men. Here the dividing line will be drawn. There will be but two classes. Every character will be fully developed; and all will show whether they have chosen the side of loyalty or that of rebellion.  {DA 763.3}

When I read this I thought I wished someone had explained this to me better when I was much younger. When teaching and preaching the Investigative Judgment most are correctly taught that our name will come up some day and our case will be decided. But that is all that is said. No wonder a large portion of our people have a wrong view and fear of the IJ. I think most just see that their name is brought forward at random or arbitrarily and if you're found lacking on the scales then you're done.

But from what I understand that this is not the truth of it. As she says... our characters will be fully developed. This is not some random or arbitrary action. It is decided from a life time of choices and decisions. However, since things have to come to an end at some point it appears that God will work circumstances in everyone's lives so that everyone will have made final choices by a certain moment in time.

I'm interested in the thoughts of others. Am I off base on this?
By communion with God in nature, the mind is uplifted, and the heart finds rest.  {DA 291.1}

Richard Myers

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #286 on: May 17, 2014, 04:10:15 PM »
Yes Jim, you are exactly right. God is not arbitrary.

Before, commenting, let's hear what others have to say.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

colporteur

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #287 on: May 17, 2014, 07:42:29 PM »
We are told that if the lost were given another lifetime to come around it would not happen. That  indicates that when our name comes up we have personally closed our own probation. We have sealed and finalized our choice and God is recognizing  that. A person may not know that they are sealed for or against God but He knows. Time is not the issue. No one's name comes up when they still have any hope of turning to God. God knows when the character is set and no longer moveable or changeable.

It seems to me that God pouring out His Holy Spirit upon those seeking Him as well as His withdrawing it from those who will not accept it will speed up and fully ripen the harvest. Add all out calamity and crisis and character will be polished off and revealed.

It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

JimB

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #288 on: May 18, 2014, 05:03:17 AM »
Cp, it appears that I agree with you and if we are correct in our understanding then (from my experience anyway) there is much left unsaid about the character of God in this process.

When my teachers and pastors taught this to us kids I believe much was left out. Remember again that this is from my experience but I believe, at least in the past, that most have been lead to believe that God has some kind of random number generator or a bowl of full names of the contestants on pieces of paper and when your number is generated or your name is drawn that is it and you're either saved or lost. So Johnny or Susy better be behaving when their name is drawn.

I won't but there is a part of me that would like to do a survey of Seventh-day Adventists, even former, to see if I'm correct about how people perceive this. Maybe I'm wrong but I believe this kind of thinking and leads to a service motivated by fear and this is the reason why we have differing ideas about the IJ trying to make more palpable.

P.S. I  hope people don't think that I'm trying to say that we shouldn't be concerned about the IJ. Far from it. We are living in the anti-typical day of Atonement and thus we should be afflicting our souls and working out our salvation with fear and trembling. I also hope that people didn't think I was trying to be sac-religious with my comments about a random number generator the bowl full of names. But I thought it was the best way to convey my thoughts.
By communion with God in nature, the mind is uplifted, and the heart finds rest.  {DA 291.1}

colporteur

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #289 on: May 18, 2014, 07:38:45 AM »

 I think phrasing it "when your name comes up" lends itself to the assumption that this is random. That  is not the way God works.

Another interesting ray of light that is almost universally unknown outside of our church and to some extent inside our church is the fact that the unfaithful will not want to go to heaven as heaven is. We are all taught growing up that everyone or nearly so wants to go to heaven when they die. That this is not so makes perfect sense however. Those who desire not to draw close to God  and the things of God, now, when we only see a reflection of Him on this earth will certainly not wish to be in the full light of His prescience in heaven.  To make a crude analogy imagine Tommy not liking green beans but mother makes him eat them along with food that he likes. Now he is taken to a party where all there is to eat is green beans and he is force fed beans the entire time. Do you think he would be happy spending a great deal of time there or  any time there, for that matter ?

Of course the non SDA Christian world has a remedy for that. God just flips a switch before leaving for the party and now green beans are a delight for Tommy to eat. It doesn't happen that way however. If we are not willing to grow to love green beans now the last place we would want to spend eternity is in a green bean factory. Beans will taste the same way in the factory as they do here on earth accept they will be stronger in flavor and everywhere you look. For those who have not converted taste buds that would be a nightmare of the worst kind. So would heaven be to the unconverted. Perhaps this would not be an effective analogy to use with a child who hates broccoli. It might discourage him away from heaven.  ;D
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JimB

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #290 on: May 18, 2014, 10:09:44 AM »
I think phrasing it "when your name comes up" lends itself to the assumption that this is random. That  is not the way God works.

This is a big part of my comment. I'm not saying that we need to teach the IJ in a different way but I would suggest a more thorough way that doesn't harm the character of God.
By communion with God in nature, the mind is uplifted, and the heart finds rest.  {DA 291.1}

Richard Myers

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #291 on: May 24, 2014, 06:33:59 PM »
I agree. The doctrine  is not hardly taught any more. But, in the past it was not taught very well. We close our own probations, God does not. Our names do not come up until our probation is closed and we are sealed one way or the other. Since we live in the anti-typical Day of Atonement, some will be judged while living. In that case, we will not know when our name comes up. But, we do not have to be concerned about God  being unfair or arbitrary. Whom do we love, whom do we speak of? If we sin today, but have been living a holy life, there is no fear that God has been waiting for us to slip up. That is not His character. No, He allowed His Son to come to this sin darkened world to save us, not to send us to hell. Jesus delays His leaving the heavenly sanctuary that all who can be saved will be saved. We  need to speak more of His love and patience with humanity. He died for us while we were yet sinners. He came  to save the lost.


     As the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. Beginning with those who first lived upon the earth, our Advocate presents the cases of each successive generation, and closes with the living. Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected. When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life, and the record of their good deeds will be erased from the book of God's remembrance. The Lord declared to Moses: "Whosoever hath sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book." Exodus 32:33. And says the prophet Ezekiel: "When the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, . . . all his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned." Ezekiel 18:24.   
     All who have truly repented of sin, and by faith claimed the blood of Christ as their atoning sacrifice, have had pardon entered against their names in the books of heaven; as they have become partakers of the righteousness of Christ, and their characters are found to be in harmony with the law of God, their sins will be blotted out, and they themselves will be accounted worthy of eternal life. The Lord declares, by the prophet Isaiah: "I, even I, am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for Mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." Isaiah 43:25. Said Jesus: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels." "Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven." Revelation 3:5; Matthew 10:32, 33.  GC 483
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.