Author Topic: Investigative Judgment  (Read 68318 times)

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Richard Myers

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Investigative Judgment
« on: May 12, 2002, 06:52:00 AM »
Our Sabbath School study has brought to light that there is much confusion relating to the Investigative Judgment that began in 1844. We have a topic "1844", but let us begin a discussion specifically on the judgment. There are many who will never accept this truth because it demands a changed life.

Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Liane H

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2002, 07:32:00 AM »
Hi Richard:

It is good to do a single study just on the judgment. First I believe we must understand that there are two parts to the judgment.

First there is the pre-Advent judgement.

Then there is the Advent judgment when Christ comes.

We must understand the first before we can understand the second.

Liane

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Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Mr David T Battler

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2002, 08:40:00 AM »
Yes Richard

I attend a small church, where we have just one big class.

I did sense a lot of not just confusion, but a lot of people did not really se any importance at all to 1844.

I asked the class: "How important is 1844, or the cleansing of the sanctuary to you?  Does it fit in, or apply to our daily walk?"

No one answered.          :)

But it was also a very good opportunity.  After the class, many stated that it was one of the best classes we have had, and that the class was not nearly long enough.

This is a very worthwhile line of study.

------------------

Mr David T Battler

[This message has been edited by Mr David T Battler (edited 05-12-2002).]


Clive Nevell

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2002, 12:35:00 PM »
I have to run soon as the kids have to catch the school bus, this is the one doctrine that bring about refrom within our lives and the church. It shows just how particular God is and how loving He is to His people. I can agree with what David has said as it is the same at our church. Where ever I go it seems to be the same.
God bless as we study this very imortant topic further.
Clive

Clive Nevell

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2002, 04:51:00 AM »
I was asked this question yesterday about the judgement.

What was Christ doing in the heavenly sanctuary till 1844? (being in the holy place until 1844)

Also, what was cleansed in 1844?

Unless we know these answers we will be caught out everytime.

Pr. Geoff Youlden has a series of tapes on the sanctuary and they are the best explanation I hacve ever heard on this topic. I will see if I can get a transcipt of his tapes and if so will post them here.

Clive


Claudia Marie

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2002, 09:17:00 AM »
Hi,

I was reading something about how Jan Marcussen's book National Sunday law was given to a whole church full of people who were non-adventist. I cant remember what denomination they were.

But anyway the entire congregation including the Pastor had accepted the Sabbath truth and started keeping the Sabbath.

But this bothered me because apparently they became Sabbath-keepers but not really Seventh day Adventists. Doesn't the 7th day Sabbath and the Judgment hour message all tie in together as one package?

Shouldnt we be telling people the Sabbath message in relation to the Judgment message?

Im not being critical at all about Jan Marcussen's book, because I think it is just wonderful that he wrote it. It's just that I think something's missing.

I hope Im not way off topic but I really would like to get the complete picture of the Judgment, along with the Sabbath.

Claudia

Claudia

Richard Myers

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2002, 09:25:00 AM »
We can begin our study by looking in the Book of Daniel where we see that the books in heaven are opened. Books? What books? Why are there books in heaven? What is in these books? Does God keep a record in heaven and if so what of and why?

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

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M.A. Crawford

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2002, 10:48:00 AM »
"For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." Ecclesiastes 12:14.

"...Fear God and give glory to him: for the hour of his judgment is come...." Revelation 14:7.

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17.

"And on the seventh-day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh-day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." Genesis 2:2, 3.

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." Exodus 20:8.

"And he said unto them, the sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath." Mark 2:27.

"And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day and stood up for to read." Luke 4:16.

"Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." Hebrews 13:8.

One can readily see, from the texts of Scripture above, that the Judgment and the Sabbath ARE BIBLE DOCTRINES, and not just church doctrines. Therefore these Bible Doctrines MOST ASSUREDLY need to be taught to all who expect to be saved in order to begin a WORK OF PREPARATION to come before the Lord to be examined to determine one's fitness for Heaven (3T 575). As I stated in another forum, even if one does not use the word "investigative" in reference to the above Bible texts on the judgment, IT DOES NOT NEGATE THE FACT that judgment shall take place, and shall begin FIRST "at the house of God."

M.A.  

M.A.

Richard Myers

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2002, 11:03:00 AM »
Amen, Brother Crawford!

Sister Claudia, I was writing my post while you were posting, so I missed your post until now. Yes, I agree that there is concern. If this church that accepted the Sabbath will continue on they will soon become Seventh-day Adventists. There is a topic where this has been discussed. I think it is in the Worship forum.

God's law reaches the feelings and motives, as well as the outward acts. It reveals the secrets of the heart. God knows every thought, every purpose, every plan, every motive. The books of heaven record the sins that would have been committed had there been opportunity. God will bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing. By His law He measures the character of every man. God has a perfect photograph of every man's character, and this photograph He compares with His law. He reveals to man the defects that mar his life, and calls upon him to repent and turn from sin. The judgment will reveal what has been written in the books of heaven.

Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Clive Nevell

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2002, 11:19:00 AM »
Another question that gets asked by those who oppose the IJ is that as God knows everything thing then why does He need to go through the books to find out who will be saved. Just a few weeks ago we had it presented just like that from the pulpiy by a retired minister. He would prefer to call it a pre-advent judgement.

Clive


Clive Nevell

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2002, 01:21:00 AM »
I believe the main reason is to show to the unfallen worlds, angels, and those who go to heaven that God has made the right decision. Either way God is always going to make the right one but for every doubt to be erased forever then God needs to make an investigation for all to see.

When He came into the Garden, He knew where Adam & Eve were. Before God passed judgement He made an investigation. When the woman came along with her acusers, Jesus wrote on the ground. They then disappeared. Jesus carried out an investigation. There is nothing sinister about God carrying out an investigation before the judgement has been passed. Then it is in favour of the saints.

Clive


M.A. Crawford

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2002, 08:50:00 AM »
"...as God knows everything then why does He need to go through the books to find out who will be saved?"

You are quite correct. God does know everything. HE KNEW FROM ETERNITY, long before the earth was created, EXACTLY who would be saved and who would be lost (Rom. 8:29, 30). Why, then, do we need an Investigative Judgment? On this topic, the pen of Inspiration writes:

"In the parable of Matthew 22 the same figure of the marriage is introduced, and the investigative judgment is clearly represented as taking place before the marriage. Previous to the wedding the king comes in to see the guests, to see if all are attired in the wedding garment, the spotless robe of character washed and made white in the blood of the Lamb. Matthew 22:11; Revelation 7:14. He who is found wanting is cast out, but all who upon examination are seen to have the wedding garment on are accepted of God and accounted worthy of a share in His kingdom and a seat upon His throne. This work of examination of character, of determining who are prepared for the kingdom of God, is that of the investigative judgment, the closing work in the sanctuary above." (GC 428).

The servant of the Lord MAKES IT VERY CLEAR that the work of the investigative judgment is to determine "who are prepared for the kingdom of God." GOD IS GIVING US TIME RIGHT NOW to put on the Robe of Christ's Righteousness (Isa. 61:10) which is the wedding garment described in the parable of Matthew 22. As the Bible very clearly points out, we must be COVERED WITH THIS GARMENT--Christ's Righteousness--if we expect to go into God's Kingdom. This is why we are told in Romans 13:14 to PUT YE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, because the Bible again makes it VERY CLEAR that all who are not covered with Christ's Righteousness "shall be cast into outer darkness" and "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 22:13). In other words, THEY SHALL BE LOST. Therefore, in addition to the unfallen worlds, angels, and the redeemed knowing, the Investigative Judgment is also needed SO THAT THOSE WHO ARE LOST WILL KNOW WHY THEY ARE LOST!!!

O SAY, CAN YOU SEE?!!!

M.A.

M.A.

Richard Myers

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2002, 09:30:00 AM »
Amen.

Now, God knows our hearts before the judgment begins. He is attempting to explain the plan of salvation and the requirement for salvation to us. In this sanctuary message is the answer to our question "what must I do to be saved?" We must develop a relationship with Jesus to the point where self is dead, hid in Christ. Every single person who will enter heaven must attain to a particular stage of development. The question is very clearly "What is the standard?" We have agreed in this thread that the standard is that ALL who would enter heaven must have a character that is in harmony with the law of God. Not just the "last generation". ALL must have a life that reveals conformity to the law. All must allow Jesus total control of the life. Jesus will give none a character when He comes. The time to develop a character is today. Moral defects of character will bar all from heaven.

Is there any wonder why the sanctuary message is not preached in it's correct doctrine? Is there any wonder why it is hated so much? In it is the true gospel that requires the greatest battle ever fought to be won. Without victory over sin, there will be no heaven. Is this too hard to do? It is indeed too hard in our own strength. It is impossible to be good without help from outside of ourselves. This is why Jesus is called our Saviour. He saves us from ourselves.

If we allow Jesus into the heart, He will give us power to resist all temptations. He will provide a way of escape. No temptation will be allowed to come to us that He has not prepared us to overcome. He wants to write His laws on our hearts. He will fill us with love for Him and love for our neighbors.

In His love and grace,     Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Clive Nevell

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2002, 12:31:00 PM »
The sanctuary services on earth was to show to the Children of Israel the plan of salvation. The pattern coming from heaven.
In the Most Holy was God's law for everyone with the mercy seat.

Clive


Claudia Marie

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2002, 01:11:00 PM »
I just thought this might help people realize how serious it is to disregard this subject:


Early Writings of Ellen G. White, page 43, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: Experience and Views
The enemies of the present truth have been trying to open the door of the holy place, that Jesus has shut, and to close the door of the most holy place, which He opened in 1844, where the ark is, containing the two tables of stone on which are written the ten commandments by the finger of Jehovah.
Satan is now using every device in this sealing time to keep the minds of God's people from the present truth and to cause them to waver. I saw a covering that God was drawing over His people to protect them in the time of trouble; and every soul that was decided on the truth and was pure in heart was to be covered with the covering of the Almighty.

Satan knew this, and he was at work in mighty power to keep the minds of as many people as he possibly could wavering and unsettled on the truth. I saw that the mysterious knocking in New York and other places was the power of Satan, and that such things would be more and more common, clothed in a religious garb so as to lull the deceived to greater security and to draw the minds of God's people, if possible, to those things and cause them to doubt the teachings and power of the Holy Ghost.
I saw that Satan was working through agents in a number of ways. He was at work through ministers who have rejected the truth and are given over to strong delusions to believe a lie that they might be damned. While they were preaching or praying, some would fall prostrate and helpless, not by the power of the Holy Ghost, but by the power of Satan breathed upon these agents, and through them to the people. While preaching, praying, or conversing, some professed Adventists who had rejected present truth used mesmerism to gain adherents, and the people would rejoice in this influence, for they thought it was the Holy Ghost. Some even that used it were so far in the darkness and deception of the devil that they thought it was the power of God, given them to exercise. They had made God altogether such a one as themselves and had valued His power as a thing of nought.
Some of these agents of Satan were affecting the bodies of some of the saints--those whom they could not deceive and draw away from the truth by a Satanic influence. Oh, that all could get a view of it as God revealed it to me, that they might know more of the wiles of Satan and be on their guard! I saw that Satan was at work in these ways to distract, deceive, and draw away God's people, just now in this sealing time. I saw some who were not standing stiffly for present truth. Their knees were trembling, and their feet sliding, because they were not firmly planted on the truth, and the covering of Almighty God could not be drawn over them while they were thus trembling.

Satan was trying his every art to hold them where they were, until the sealing was past, until the covering was drawn over God's people, and they left without a shelter from the burning wrath of God, in the seven last plagues. God has begun to draw this covering over His people, and it will soon be drawn over all who are to have a shelter in the day of slaughter. God will work in power for His people; and Satan will be permitted to work also....

pg 55
I saw the Father rise from the throne, and in a flaming chariot go into the holy of holies within the veil, and sit down. Then Jesus rose up from the throne, and the most of those who were bowed down arose with Him. I did not see one ray of light pass from Jesus to the careless multitude after He arose, and they were left in perfect darkness. Those who arose when Jesus did, kept their eyes fixed on Him as He left the throne and led them out a little way. Then He raised His right arm, and we heard His lovely voice saying, "Wait here; I am going to My Father to receive the kingdom; keep your garments spotless, and in a little while I will return from the wedding and receive you to Myself." Then a cloudy chariot, with wheels like flaming fire, surrounded by angels, came to where Jesus was. He stepped into the chariot and was borne to the holiest, where the Father sat. There I beheld Jesus, a great High Priest, standing before the Father. On the hem of His garment was a bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate. Those who rose up with Jesus would send up their faith to Him in the holiest, and pray, "My Father, give us Thy Spirit." Then Jesus would breathe upon them the Holy Ghost. In that breath was light, power, and much love, joy, and peace.


I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, "Father, give us Thy Spirit." Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children."


Claudia

Richard Myers

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2002, 01:13:00 PM »
Yes, Brother Clive, the symbols are all important. The combining of mercy and truth is seen in the sanctuary service and at the cross. God did not set aside justice nor mercy, but rather allowed His Son to pay the price for the sins of all on this earth. Those who confess their sins and truly repent will have past sins forgiven. Such a God!!

Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Claudia Marie

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2002, 03:31:00 AM »
Hi MA Crawford   :)

Thank you for all the Bible verses. Yes I can see how the commandments, including the sabbath and keeping them would prepare you for heaven.

I was trying to understand better why it is that the Sabbath commandment is brought out so much when it comes to the Judgment. In Revelation it says:

Rev 14:7: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

the second part of that verse is right out of the sabbath 4th commandment, so its saying that it has lots to do with the Judgment message.

I guess it just seems odd to me that at this time in history this would be brought up in Revelation. I wanted kind of an explanation to give people when we try to explain the significance of the sabbath and how it fits in with the Judgement hour message.

Does anyone know of any Spirit of Prophecy passages on this?

Claudia

Claudia

Claudia Marie

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2002, 03:39:00 AM »
Richard,

I was reading back over your original post and thought of something. You know, there are lots of parables and stories in the Bible that have to do with the Judgment.

Like the ten talents story. In Christ's Object Lessons it says the story is really talking about our responsibility in getting ready for the Judement. And the Wedding Garment parable, and I think the ten virgin parable and the barren fig tree. But I dont know which ones, if any, are referring to the investigative judgment, do you know?

One thing I dont understand really is ...why is it that we during this time of history are seemingly held more responsible and to a higher standard than people in the past were?

After this I will just try and mostly read what everyone else says. Its just that Ive always had lots of questions when it comes to this subject. Not at all that I dont believe in it, but just have questions.

But I dont want to get anyone off the topic so after this I wont say much more.

Claudia

Clive Nevell

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2002, 05:16:00 AM »
Understood properly the sanctuary and the judgement are the only truths that separate us from any other church.
Clive

M.A. Crawford

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Re: Investigative Judgment
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2002, 08:52:00 AM »
"I wanted kind of an explanation to give to people when we try to explain the significance of the sabbath and how it fits in with the Judgment hour message."

I do not claim to have the explanation to satisfy the concern you have in your statement above. What I can offer to you is what I believe.

In 1 Corinthians 8:5 and 6, the Bible tells us there are many gods and lords that are worshipped today by people who choose to believe what they want to believe that is at variance with the Word of God. But there is only ONE TRUE GOD. That, I believe, is the primary reason why Revelation 14:7 reads:

"...Fear God and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

First, I very firmly believe--as do many Seventh-day Adventists--that the Three Angels' Message is THE LAST MESSAGE OF WARNING to be given to this world just prior to the Second Coming of Christ. Secondly, I believe that the First Angel's Message, as recorded in Revelation 14:7, is a CALL TO RETURN. It is a call to return to THE TRUE AND THE LIVING GOD who is identified in the second part of verse 7. It is a call to worship Him that made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and the fountains of waters. And THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD who made the heavens and the earth, and He is the True and the Living God. This is the reason why we have THE SAME GOD identified in the Fourth Commandment--The Sabbath Commandment--of the Decalogue. Please don't miss this next part.

There is a reason why in these last days the devil is working VERY HARD to do away with and put at naught God's Sabbath Commandment. I'll try to explain this as briefly and as simply as I can.

God gave us Ten Commandments written with His own Finger (Exod. 31:18). These Commandments were not written by Moses. They were written by God Himself TO INDICATE THEIR IMPORTANCE, and on stone TO INDICATE THEIR ETERNAL SIGNIFICANCE. There are two reasons why the Judgment Hour and the Sabbath Messages go hand in hand:

1. God gave to humankind Ten Commandments, and not Nine. There is no problem with most Christian denominations in keeping Commandments One, Two, Three, Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, and Ten. The problem arises with the Fourth Commandment which indicates on which day THE BIBLE TELLS US we are to worship the True God. Most Christians do not worship on this day for whatever the reason. Can we be saved alive by obeying Nine of Ten Commandments of God? I think not. Therefore, God, IN HIS LOVING MERCY raised up His Remnant Church to present His last message of warning to a dying world to fear God and worship Him who made the heavens and the earth. HE HAS GIVEN TO ALL TIME to come into a knowledge of the true day of worship. This is the reason why probation still lingers. This is the reason why the Judgment Hour message and the Sabbath go hand in hand. God is patient and longsuffering, desiring that none should perish. Those who are actively working on behalf of our fellow man to help them come into the knowledge of this truth that has been obscured and distorted are known as the "repairers of the breach" (Isa. 58:12).

2. Revelation 14:7 and the Fourth Commandment of Exodus 20:11 identify the True and the Living God as the One who made Heaven, the earth, the sea, and all that are in them. This is why the servants of God cannot be sealed with the Seal of the Living God without the Fourth Commandment. Because a seal bears the name, title, and territory of the one in authority. And this Commandment IDENTIFIES WHO WE SERVE by way of His Name ("In six days the Lord"), His Title ("made" [Creator]), and the dominion of His Authority ("heaven and earth"). If we eliminate the Fourth Commandment WE WORSHIP WE KNOW NOT WHAT, and we eliminate the Seal of God whereby the servants of God are to be sealed (Rev. 7:3) because many Christians will be alive when God is seen coming in the clouds. But NO ONE who is alive can be saved keeping only Nine of God's Commandments WHEN HE WROTE TEN! This is why, from the standpoint of all who profess to follow Christ, there will be two AND ONLY TWO classes of people alive when Christ returns--DENOMINATIONS WILL NOT MATTER!!! There will be those who have received the mark of the beast (rejected the Fourth Commandment) and those who receive the Seal of The Living God (accepted the Fourth Commandment).

M.A.

M.A.