Author Topic: Getting Doctrinal  (Read 10091 times)

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M.A. Crawford

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Getting Doctrinal
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2002, 10:48:00 AM »
"God knows all and He sees all."

Do we really believe that? If we do, what does it mean to us from the standpoint of salvation? Do we have some erroneous view of God as One who knows and sees all but will save us in our little "itty, bitty" sins simply because we are members of His remnant church? I think not. The servant of the Lord tells us:

"...There are many whose names are registered on the leaves of the church record but whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life" (That I May Know Him, p. 113).

The Bible NOWHERE teaches that God will save us in our sins. What It does teach is:

"...and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Matthew 1:21.

The Bible makes it very clear that Christ saves us FROM OUR SINS!!! Not in our sins. What does it mean to be saved from our sins? The only way we can be saved from our sins is through the Power of the Holy Spirit. He does within us a WORK OF PREPARATION that must take place in the life in order to be able to stand before the True and the Living God when He is seen coming in the clouds of His Glory. The Bible does not leave us in the dark as to what that work of preparation entails. In Isaiah 61:10, we are told:

"I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bdide adorneth herself with jewels."

HE HATH COVERED ME WITH THE ROBE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. Ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, the work of preparation is: we MUST BE covered with the Robe of Christ's Righteousness. This is THE ONLY GARMENT that will allow sinful human beings to stand in the presence of a Holy God. You and I must BE LIKE HIM even as He is righteous (1 John 3:2). And THE ONLY WAY we can be like Him and made righteous is to be covered with the Righteousness of Christ by making His way of life our way of life (Gal. 2:20). As 1 John 3:7 tells us:

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."

Righteousness is simply nothing more than  doing right. And the ONLY EXAMPLE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS that is acceptable unto God is the Righteousness of Christ, or THE TRUTH AS IT IS IN JESUS. Our own particular "brand" of righteousness just simply will not do unto salvation.

Where our salvation is concerned, we need to CAREFULLY AND PRAYERFULLY read and study our Bibles and be DOERS OF THE WORD, and not just "hearers" only (Jas. 1:22).

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M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2002, 10:21:00 AM »
In reference to the Holy Bible, someone has said: "This Book will keep you from sin; or sin will keep you from this Book."

I very firmly believe that the primary objective of the devil is to keep us from studying our Bibles as we should, and he will use any means he can to accomplish this objective. There is a reason for this.

I believe that many who are alive now will be alive when Jesus is seen coming in the clouds. But prior to Christ's Second Coming, many will be brought before judges and councils in that day to answer for their beliefs. And THE ONLY BOOK that will provide IRREFUTABLE ANSWERS UNTO SALVATION as to why we believe as we do is the Holy Bible. But how can we defend our faith by way of the Word of God IF WE DON'T KNOW THE WORD OF GOD? How can we convince those before whom we stand of something that we ourselves know nothing of? The devil's goal is to make sure that we are as IGNORANT AS POSSIBLE in reference to the Scriptures so we can be as the five foolish virgins (Matt. 25:1-13) who had their "lamps," which is symbolic of God's Word (Ps. 119:105), but they did not have the "oil," which is symbolic of the Holy Spirit (1 Sam. 16:13), and did not have the ACCOMPANYING CHRISTIAN EXPERIENCE of having made the Word of God a part of their everyday living by way of the Holy Spirit. They had only a theoretical knowledge of God's Word instead of AN EXPERENTIAL KNOWLEDGE. This is why we need to be fortifying our minds right now WITH BIBLE ANSWERS to the questions Christians shall be confronted with as we stand before those who are accusers of the brethren (Rev. 12:10).

Ellen G. White wrote:

"The Lord desires you to study your Bibles. He has not given any additional light to take the place of His Word. This light [her writings] is to bring confused minds to His Word, which, if eaten and digested, is as the life blood of the soul. Then good works will be seen as light shining in darkness--Letter 130, 1901" (3SM 29).

She also wrote:

"...You are not familiar with the Scriptures. If you had made God's word your study, with a desire to reach the Bible standard and attain to Christian perfection, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE NEEDED THE TESTIMONIES (Emphasis mine throughout). It is because you have neglected to acquaint yourselves with God's inspired Book that He has sought to reach you by simple, direct testimonies, calling your attention to the words of inspiration WHICH YOU HAD NEGLECTED TO OBEY, and urging you to fashion your lives in accordance with its pure and elevated teachings" (2T 605).

O SAY, CAN YOU SEE?!!!

Someone has also said: "A hint to the wise is sufficient."

M.A.

M.A.

Richard Myers

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« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2002, 07:34:00 AM »
And for the rest, counsel from prophets!  :)
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2002, 09:05:00 AM »
As I have stated before, whenever I post a message in this or in any forum, my primary purpose is to provide those who read with AMMUNITION with which to fight against all the attempts being made today to confuse God's people. Since the Investigative Judgment is one of the pillar doctrines of this church and is being discussed in another forum, I decided to comment on this very important doctrine with the following texts of Scripture:

"For God shall bring EVERY WORK into judgment with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." Ecclesiastes 12:14. Emphasis mine throughout.

"For the time is come that judgment must begin AT THE HOUSE OF GOD: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17.

"...Fear God and give glory to him: for the hour of his judgment is come..." Revelation 14:7.

"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given unto them..." Revelation 20:4.

The Bible very clearly tells us that judgment must begin at the house of God. Even if one does not use the word "investigative" here IT DOES NOT NEGATE THE FACT that judgment is going to begin first with the house of God. This is what began in 1844. Daniel 8:14 tells us:

"Unto 2300 days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

We know that Christ did not return to the earth on October 22, 1844 as had been assumed by many, therefore some other VERY IMPORTANT WORK of God had to commence at that time.

We learn in the Book of Hebrews there is a Heavenly Sanctuary, of which the earthly was but a type or copy of the Heavenly. When we study Hebrews very carefully we learn that Christ is performing a work there as our High Priest (Heb. 9:11, 24). If the earthly was a copy of the Heavenly, when we carefully read Leviticus 16 we discover the work that the earthly high priest performed there was a work of CLEANSING of the earthly sanctuary. This cleansing involved a JUDGING OF THE PEOPLE because they were to PREPARE THEMSELVES to come before the Lord (vs. 11-34) just as WE NOW must prepare ourselves to come before the Lord because of what is written in 1 Peter 4:17. If some in Leviticus 16 had not made the necessary SPIRITUAL PREPARATION to come before the Lord, they would be "cut off" from God's people, and Leviticus 20 makes it quite clear they would be lost. JUST AS WE WILL BE TODAY if we have not made the necessary spiritual preparation to divest ourselves OF ALL SIN AND UNRIGHTEOUSNESS while our High Priest, Jesus Christ, makes intercession for us in the Heavenly Sanctuary (Heb. 10:4-27).

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M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2002, 08:20:00 AM »
In explaining why he left the Adventist church, an individual wrote:

"I did not hear the Bible gospel of salvation by the grace of God alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone until my 30th year in SDAism."

My question to him was: WHAT IN THE WORLD WERE YOU STUDYING ALL THIS TIME?!!!

I know a man who could not read very well because of a lack of formal education early in life. A colporteur introduced him to the Adventist message, and he began to study his Bible, was convinced of the truth, and, after over twenty years, is still a faithful member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church today. As a matter of fact, he himself is a colporteur, helping others to come into the knowledge of saving truth. My point is: DON'T TELL ME WHAT THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN'T DO in the life of an individual WHEN one is willing to repent of his sins, HUMBLE HIMSELF, and place himself IN A TEACHABLE POSTURE to be taught of the Lord by way of His Holy Spirit. Simply put, we can learn what constitutes God's Truth WHEN WE ARE WILLING TO OBEY THAT TRUTH without hesitation, and without reservation.

Miracles like the story above occur somewhere practically every day. I believe if it becomes necessary, God will--to save a soul--cause THE ROCKS TO CRY OUT precious truths unto eternal life if one can be found who is willing to be a DOER OF THE WORD and not just a hearer only (Jas. 1:22). When one places oneself IN THE PROPER SPIRITUAL POSTURE to be taught of the Lord IN ORDER TO BE A DOER of His Word, miracles happen.

The Biblical Gospel of salvation by faith alone through Jesus Christ alone HAS ALWAYS BEEN very plainly revealed in the Word of God. However, IT IS UP TO US to very carefully and prayerfully read and study God's Word FOR OURSELVES. We ARE NOT to look to pastors, elders, OR ANYONE ALSE, to do our studying for us. If God can save an individual who studied his Bible but could not read very well, WHAT ABOUT US who have one or many academic degrees to our credit? What excuse shall we present unto the Lord?!!!

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M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2002, 01:38:00 PM »
This same individual wrote:

"As one who has faith in Christ alone for my salvation (unlike those who rely on their lawkeeping), I am not under the Law (Galatians 3:23-25). Even EGW said that the law being discussed in Galatians 3 is the ten commandments (Selected Messages, Book 1, page 3, paragraph 1)."

You say you have "faith in Christ alone" for your salvation. That's fine. But do you REALLY KNOW what that means? Are you sure? You say you are not under the Law and give Galatians 3:23-25, I assume, as your proof texts. Let's see what these texts of Scripture say:

"But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which soon afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Galatians 3:23-25.

The Bible says in vs. 24 that the law was our schoolmaster which was given to bring us to Christ. What does that mean?

"...Israel was kept 'under the law' (v. 23) until God's provision for salvation by faith should be 'revealed' with the coming of Christ" (SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 6, p. 961).

In verse 23, the terms "schoolmaster" is translated from the Greek, paidagogus, which means "tutor," or "guardian of children." Therefore, "the law served as the guardian, supervisor, or custodian of the chosen people in OT times, and, like the paidagogus [schoolmaster], was charged with their moral training" (Ibid.)

Verses 25 and 26 tell us that, now that faith has come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (under the law), for we are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. And that is true. Now that salvation has been revealed by way of THE LIVING EXAMPLE of Jesus Christ to demonstrate how we are saved, we are no longer under the law, but under grace (Rom. 6:14). In Romans 6:14, Paul's point is that "Christians are not under law as a way of salvation, but under grace. Law cannot save a sinner, nor can law put an end to sin and its dominion. Law reveals sin (ch. 3:20).... Law cannot forgive sin, nor can law provide any power to overcome it..." ().

SIN CAN BE OVERCOME AND FORGIVEN ONLY THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST!!! Not in our futile attempt at lawkeeping. BUT WAIT A MINUTE:

"Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31.

This is why the writer and others need to be very careful when they talk about salvation through Jesus Christ "alone." Romans 3:31 makes it VERY CLEAR that we DO NOT do away with God's Law through faith in Christ. Faith in Jesus IS NOT a license to now live as one pleases without regard for God's Law. Jesus came to MAGNIFY God Law and to make It honorable (Isa. 42:21). To magnify means to bring it out, or MAKE IT CLEARER. And that is precisely what He did by way of the life He lived on this earth. HE IS OUR LIVING EXAMPLE as to how we should live, if we expect to be saved.

I hope no one misses this very vital point: Jesus said in His Word that He has kept His Father's Commandments (John 15:10). If Jesus kept God's Commandments, and true Christians are followers of Christ, IT IS THEREFORE IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to be saved who does not do likewise.

The law being discussed in Galatians 3 does include the Decalogue, but the writer made an error in his assumption (and in his reference). This is what Ellen G. White has to say with regard to the relationship of righteousness by faith and the Law of God:

"Holding up Christ as our only source of strength, presenting His matchless love in having the guilt of the sins of men charged to His account and His own righteousness imputed to man, in no case does away with the law or detracts from its dignity. Rather, it places it where the correct light shines upon and glorifies it. This is done only through the light reflected from the cross of Calvary. The law is complete and full in the great plan of salvation, only as it is presented in the light shining from the crucified and risen Saviour. This can be only spiritually discerned. It kindles in the heart of the beholder ardent faith, hope, and joy that Christ is his righteousness. This joy is only for those who love and keep the words of Jesus, which are the words of God." (3SM 176-7).

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Mr David T Battler

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Getting Doctrinal
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2002, 12:37:00 AM »
I am a little surprised to see what appears to be a bit of de-emphasis or downplaying of "doctrine," or "doctrines," in the last half of this thread.

While there is some good and inspiring quotes here, I see, a bit of what I was concerned about, over a year ago, when I asked to start this thread.

There is NO DIFFERENCE between a doctrine; and "Christ crucified."  Atleast, not if it is a truly Christian doctrine.

In their haste, to the ecumenical fever that has captured mainstream Christianity; they all flock eagerly to the same things such as:

a) Doctrines do not save

b) only "Christ, and Him crucified" counts

c) only talk about Jesus

d)  etc., etc.

Also, it appears, by some of MA's posts here, that "law" is being somehow equated with "doctrine," in terms of importance, or relevance.  That, I find, needs questions to be asked.

When it comes right down to the main point; even Acts 4:12 is a "doctrine."   :)

I wonder how this thread would go, if we all took some time to do a thorough Word study, from the Bible, and SOP on "doctrine,"  "doctrines,"  and "doctrinal."

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M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2002, 08:18:00 AM »
As (I hope) can be seen from my previous post, one needs to be very, very careful when one talks about faith in Christ alone by making sure one does not attempt to convey the idea that the Law of God is somehow made secondary in the life of an individual now that one has faith in Christ. When one talks about faith in Christ alone for salvation, ask that individual this question: Do you love Jesus? Jesus says:

"If you love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15.

Ask that individual another question: Are you a follower of Christ? Christ made it very clear that He kept His Father's Commandments while on earth (John 15:10). As professed followers of Christ, do we keep His Father's Commandments also? If not, why not?

As John 14:15 very clearly points out, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to love Jesus and not keep His Commandments. Jesus explains in John 15:14 what He means when He says "keep My commandments:"

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you."  

And Jesus makes it very clear in another part of Scripture what He means by the statement to do whatsoever He commands:

"But he answered and said, It is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matt. 4:4).

In other words, we cannot pick and choose, cafeteria style, the verses of Scripture that are to our liking and ignore the one that are not. SALVATION DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! We are to study the Word of God for the purpose of finding out what "Thus saith the Lord" IN ORDER TO BE A DOER OF THAT WORD, and not just a "hearer" only (Jas. 1:22).

A long-time evangelist in this church, now retired, once remarked in a sermon: "God is not interested in out talk; HE'S INTERESTED IN OUR WALK!!!" His point was many Adventists are known to have a "gift for gab," but merely agreeing that truth is truth will not save anyone. OBEDIENCE TO WHAT GOD HAS SAID IN HIS WORD shall be the determining factor as to whether we are saved or not. The Bible MAKES IT VERY CLEAR that obedience is better than sacrifice (1 Sam. 15:22).

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Richard Myers

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« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2002, 05:59:00 PM »
Amen, Brother Crawford. Profession of faith means nothing. Jesus wants our whole heart which will be revealed in loving obedience to all that we know.  We cannot obey Him is we do not love Him with the whole heart. Self will control our actions.

Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2002, 10:26:00 AM »
An individual stated:

"It is general knowledge among many Seventh-day Adventists that Christ entered The Most Holy Place (Second Apartment) of the Heavenly Sanctuary at the end of the 2300-day prophecy on October 22, 1844. But when did Christ enter into The Holy Place (First Apartment) of the Heavenly Sanctuary, and what salvific work was He doing there?"

The servant of the Lord in The Great Controversy writes:

"...After His ascension our Saviour began His work as our high priest. Says Paul: Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us." Hebrews 9:24.

"The ministration of the priest throughout the year in the first apartment of the sanctuary, 'within the veil' which formed the door and separated the holy place from the outer court, represents the work of ministration upon which Christ entered at His ascension. It was the work of the priest in the daily ministration to present before God the blood of the sin offering, also the incense which ascended with the prayers of Israel. So did Christ plead His blood before the Father in behalf of sinners, and present before Him also, with the precious fragrance of His own righteousness, the prayers of penitent believers. Such was the work of ministration in the first apartment of the sanctuary in heaven.

"For eighteen centuries this work of ministration continued in the first apartment of the sanctuary..." (GC 420-21).

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Richard Myers

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« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2002, 09:23:00 PM »
I have a question that may not have an easy answer,  or maybe no answer at all.  

When David sinned his great sin, did Jesus plead for him? Did He stand between God and David?  He could not plead His blood, for it was not spilled yet. When Moses was taken to heaven, did Jesus ask for this?

OK, what I am really getting at is where in heaven did all of this ministry take place? Was it in the sanctuary that the earthly temple was patterned after?

Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2002, 01:15:00 PM »
My understanding is, David, and all who sinned and died before Calvary, LOOK FORWARD to the Cross for their salvation. Those of us who live on this side of Calvary LOOK BACK to the Cross for our salvation. At any rate, from Adam down to the last person saved, WE ALL must look to the Cross of Calvary, plunge beneath that Crimson stream, and be covered with the Blood of Jesus if we are to be saved in God's Kingdom.

Mrs. White has pointed out that what was done in type in the ministration of the earthly sanctuary was and is being done in reality by Christ in the Heavenly Sanctuary. She gives a rather thorough and comprehensive explanation of this relationship between the two in The Great Controversy on pages 420 and 421.

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M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #52 on: June 21, 2002, 12:08:00 PM »
Concerning Christ's priestly work in The Most Holy Place (Second Apartment) of the Heavenly Sanctuary, the pen of Inspiration writes:

"...The blood of Christ, pleaded in behalf of penitent believers, secured their pardon and acceptance with the Father, yet their sins still remained upon the books of record. As in the typical service there was a work of atonement at the close of the year, so before Christ's work for the redemption of men is completed there is a work of atonement for the removal of sin from the sanctuary. This is the service which began when the 2300 days ended. At that time, as foretold by Daniel the prophet, our High Priest entered the most holy, to perform the last division of His solemn work--to cleanse the sanctuary.

"As anciently the sins of the people were by faith placed upon the sin offering and through its blood transferred, in figure, to the earthly sanctuary, so in the new covenant the sins of the repentant are by faith placed upon Christ and transferred, in fact, to the heavenly sanctuary. And as the typical cleansing of the earthly was accomplished by the removal of the sins by which it had been polluted, so the actual cleansing of the heavenly is to be accomplished by the removal, or blotting out, of the sins which are there recorded. But before this can be accomplished, there must be an examination of the books of record to determine who, through repentance of sin and faith in Christ, are entitled to the benefits of His atonement. The cleansing of the sanctuary therefore involves a work of investigation--a work of judgment. This work must be performed prior to the coming of Christ to redeem His people; for when He comes, His reward is with Him to give to every man according to his works. Revelation 22:12.

"Thus those who followed in the light of the prophetic word saw that, instead of coming to the earth at the termination of the 2300 days in 1844, Christ then entered the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary to perform the closing work of atonement preparatory to His coming.

"It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. When the high priest, by virtue of the blood of the sin offering, removed the sins from the sanctuary, he placed them upon the scapegoat. When Christ, by virtue of His own blood, removes the sins of His people from the Heavenly sanctuary at the close of His ministration, He will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty. The scapegoat was sent away into a land not inhabited, never to come again into the congregation of Israel. So will Satan be forever banished from the presence of God and His people, and he will be blotted from existence in the final destruction of sin and sinners." (GC 421-22).

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M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2002, 11:07:00 AM »
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:16.

"The theme of the Epistle to the Galatians is righteousness attained by faith in Jesus Christ. This is set in contrast with the Jewish concept of righteousness attained by compliance with the 'works' prescribed by the Jewish legal system. This letter exalts what God has done through Christ for man's salvation and summarily dismisses the idea that man can be justified by his own merits. It extols the free gift of God in contrast with man's attempts to save himself.

"The specific question at issue between Paul and the heretical teachers in Galatia was, Does compliance with the prescribed forms and requirements of Judaism entitle a man to divine favor and acceptance? The caegorical answer was No, 'a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ' (see on ch. 2:16). Indeed, the Christian who attempts to earn salvation by the 'works of the law' thereby forfeits the grace of Christ (chs. 2:21; 5:4)....


"...'The law' was not designed to replace the covenant or to provide another means of salvation, but to help men understand and appropriate the covenant's provisions of divine grace. 'The law' was not intended to be an end in itself, as the Jews came to think, but a means--a 'schoolmaster'--to lead men to salvation in Christ according to the promises of the covenant. The purpose of 'the law,' its 'end,' or objective, was to lead men to Christ (see on Rom. 10:4), not to open for them another pathway to salvation. For the most part, however, the Jews willingly remained in ignorance of God's plan for making men righteous by faith in Christ, and went about to establish their own righteousness by 'the works of the law' (Gal. 2:16; see Rom. 10:3)" (SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 6, pp. 933-34).

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M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2002, 12:41:00 PM »
"...salvation is not earned by obedience but obedience is essential."

That is true. Obedience to God always has been and always will be essential to salvation and eternal life. It is essential BECAUSE GOD IS GOD. It is He AND HE ALONE who is the Creator and Ruler of the Universe. It is He AND HE ALONE who possesses Absolute Perfection, which means GOD IS INCAPABLE of making a mistake or an error. It was disobedience to God that led Lucifer and the angels who followed him to sin in Heaven. It was disobedience to God that led Adam and Eve to sin in Eden. That's what sin is:

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

What is The Law? God's Word is The Law. And we transgress God's Law when God tells us to do one thing, AND WE DO ANOTHER! That's what sin is: DISOBEDIENCE to God. The Bible tells us:

"But he answered and said, It is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4.

And because the Bible says "every word," IT MEANS EVERY WORD. And not just the ones we like! But there is a very critical factor involved in obedience that we must look at.

We don't obey God in order to earn salvation. Salvation cannot be earned. It is a free gift (Eph. 2:8, 9). We don't keep the Sabbath to be saved. We don't keep any of God's Commandments to be saved. Trying to earn salvation by works of obedience is legalism. Then why do we do what we do?

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

The Bible is not a Book of "do's and don'ts." When one looks at It from this viewpoint, one is looking at It from the wrong viewpoint. The Bible from Genesis to Revelation IS ONE GIGANTIC LOVE LETTER of how God loves us so much until He was willing to give THE SECOND PERSON OF THE GODHEAD in order to save us!!! This is the very heart of the Gospel message. And when it is properly taught, IT WILL MELT THE HEARTS of sincere men and women, boys and girls, who really want to be saved, and will cause them to FALL ON THE ROCK, JESUS CHRIST, and surrender all to Him.

Why do we do what we do? We don't obey God to be saved. Salvation is a free gift. WE OBEY GOD BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM!!! And we demonstrate that love for Him by our obedience to Him WITHOUT RESERVATION in all that He asks of us. A true Christian serves God BECAUSE HE OR SHE LOVES HIM. When we get our priorities straight, and live as God wants us to live, SALVATION WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF!!!

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Randy S

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« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2002, 01:23:00 PM »
One aspect about God's commandments that I don't hear talked about much is that God's commandments are true.  In fact, I believe it is the truthfulness of His commandments that make them righteous and worthy of being obeyed rather than merely the authority of the One who gave them.

Ignoring this fact sometimes leads people to present God as arbitrary, which, of course, was one of the charges that Lucifer made against God.  If there were more than one way to live, and God arbitrarily picked one way over the other, then God is being arbitrary.  In fact, all other ways other than God's way result in death, so God is not arbitrary but rather truthful and righteous.

I have even heard taught about certain commandments, such as the Sabbath, that they are signs of loyalty to God because there is no reason to keep them other than God told us to.  But that reinforces Satan's charge that God is arbitrary.  Rather, it would be better to explain that there are truthful reasons behind every commandment of God.  In fact, if Lucifer had remembered that God had created him, and knew all things, he may have trusted God when He told him that his rebellion would result in his death, and thus spared himself from destruction.

While obedience to God's command is necessary.  I think it's important to understand why that is so.  It is because the alternative of following our own inclination results in death, not because God says so and will punish all who disobey with death.  

I think it's also important to remember that God has gone to great lengths to provide evidence to support our trust or faith in Him and  to demonstrate that He is righteous and truthful.  In fact, there are many cases in the Bible where he showed that he would prefer that we know and understand rather than blindly obey just because he said so.


Ben

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« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2002, 07:13:00 PM »
Couldn't agree with you more, Randy. God's character is shown in the actions of Jesus; He was not authoritarian, but drew parables and stories out to the people so to show them the truth and workability of God's laws.

As a child, my mother's scolding "Don't you dare jump off that garage roof with that bedsheet!" did not keep me from trying parachuting. But having an older brother slowly explain what could happen if I did it wrong, stopped me dead in my tracks.

"Rev 10:10  And I took the little scroll out of the angel's hand, and devoured it. And it was sweet like honey in my mouth; and when I ate it, my belly was made bitter."

DLWilson

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« Reply #57 on: July 26, 2002, 09:02:00 PM »
Dear Richard,

On the blood of Jesus and persons before the cross.  

There was once some struggle with this in our church.  As I recall,  Elder G.I. Butler insisted that the sins of individuals before the cross were not really forgiven because the blood of the Christ had not been spilled.  Elder E.J. Waggoner on the other hand was appalled at the thought.  

I believe that Waggoner was right to be appalled by the idea.  The cross of Christ must need be a reality for every moment of humanity's existence since the fall.  The moment there was sin, there was a Savior.   But without the cross, Jesus was no Savior.  

Nevertheless it is true of course that the historical event of Calvary was future in David's day.  How can we reconcile this fact?  The promises of God are not to be looked upon just as future events but as present realities.  They are not spoken as just future events.  For example,     "A Father of many nations, I have made thee..."    Notice how Isaiah 53 reads.  "He was wounded for transgressions,  He was bruised for our iniquities.  The chastisement of our peace was upon Him...."    While this was not yet a historical event, it is prophesied in the past tense.  It was already reality because God's Word is creative.   Therefore in a very real way, Christ is the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the World".  

So, did Jesus plead for David?  Yes, He would have to do so, because not one prayer of David's could be heard on the basis of David's merit.    Did Jesus stand between God and David?  Yes, and he stood between a Holy God and the entire human race from the very fall of man.  Otherwise we all would have been annihillated.  

Did Jesus ask  the Father for Moses' to be raised?   Jesus performed the raising according to Jude's epistle, therefore we must assume that He did so in harmony with the Father's will.

OK.  I have to admit that those seem to be the easy questions.  Did Christ do this from the heavenly sanctuary?   This is a very good question.  I tend to think not because while forgiveness and intercession have always been occuring, the inaugaration of the heavenly sanctuary and Christ's annointing as our High Priest would appear to have become historical events upon His Ascension.   I would be interested on any Bible texts and SOP quotations relating to this.  

Thanks Richard for asking such thought-provoking questions.  I trust that we will discover some Inspired comments relating to these things.  

In Christ,
D L Wilson


M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2002, 11:06:00 AM »
"We are here for the edification of each other."

The dictionary defines edification as "instruction and improvement, especially in morality." Therefore, EDIFICATION FOR ME that leads to eternal life comes from the Word of God. This is why the devil wants to keep us from this Book known as The Holy Bible. He wants us to be ignorant of the things that are written there that impact upon whether we are saved or not SO WE WILL BE LOST. Here is just one example:

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in times past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Galatians 5:19-21.

The Bible makes it VERY CLEAR that those who do these things SHALL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God!!! When was the last time Galatians 5:19-21 was heard presented from the desk? Yet these AND OTHER ADMONITIONS LIKE THEM are in the Bible. This is why the devil does not want us to SERIOUSLY STUDY our Bibles. He is afraid that we will discover in those sacred pages God's Will for our lives and be saved.

Are we waiting for someone to tell us from a pulpit what these and other warnings are WHEN WE CAN READ THEM FOR OURSELVES? Others might be, but I AM NOT WILLING to gamble with my soul salvation by waiting for someone else to do for me what I can do for myself.

M.A.

M.A.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #59 on: August 09, 2002, 02:43:00 PM »
Many theoretical topics and discourses abound at the present time in this church that continue to divide it: verbal vs. thought inspiration, the Eastern question ( the interpretation of the "king of the North" in Daniel 11), the "daily" (Dan. 8:11-13), the nature of Christ, and many others. But I believe there is none more dangerous than the proposal that some parts of the Bible are more inspired than others. I mention this at this time, not to initiate a discussion as to who's right and who's wrong, but to state my position in this matter.

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16, 17.

THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE!! I believe that the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is the revealed Word of God. Notwithstanding those who point out Its many "errors" and interpretations that do not harmonize, I believe that BECAUSE GOD IS GOD and all Scripture is given by inspiration of Him, I am therefore THOROUGHLY CONVINCED in my own mind that He who knows all and sees all and knows the end from the beginning (Isa. 46:10) is not so inept and incompetent that we have to HELP GOD OUT by determining which part of the Bible is more inspired than the other. Hence, more relevant toward man's salvation than another part. Instead, we accept what God says in His Word WITHOUT RESERVATION, not because we can prove everything we read in the Bible, BUT BY FAITH! The Bible tells us without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb. 11:6). We believe WITHOUT HESITATION all of the Word of God because we know GOD IS INCAPABLE OF MAKING AN ERROR!! We might not be able to understand everything the Bible tells us, but the position of A TRUE FOLLOWER of Christ is: GOD SAYS IT, AND THAT SETTLES IT!!! And I very firmly believe with all my heart that this kind of faith is what is lacking in many of our churches today. It is not blind faith. It is faith based upon OUR LOVE FOR GOD and OUR COMPLETE CONFIDENCE IN HIM. I believe this is what we all must have as we prepare for the time of trouble that is soon to come upon us. It is at that time that we must WALK BY FAITH AND NOT BY SIGHT (2 Cor. 5:7). And I do not believe we will be able to successfully do this unless we have made The Holy Bible THE SUPREME LOVE of our lives and are willing to live BY EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the Mouth of God (Matt. 4:4).

M.A.  

M.A.