Author Topic: Bible Interpretation  (Read 81194 times)

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M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2001, 06:11:00 AM »
"...I enthusiastically concur that every Christian has come to the point where he/she/we know all that we need to know for an intelligent decision unto salvation.

"But the overwhelming majority of those who have gone through this process are NOT Adventist (yet). Don't you agree?..."

Yes I do agree. And I believe that one reason why these individuals have not become Adventists yet is because I believe the Lord is not going to bring many of these well-meaning, honest, and sincere "babes in Christ" into the church at this time because some of us would RUN THEM RIGHT ON BACK OUT with our self-righteous, legalistic, holier-than-thou attitude that is devoid of the Christlike love and understanding that is sorely needed when new members come into the church.

In all of my years in the Seventh-day Adventist Church I still have not been able to understand why there are so few of us who are warm, kind, and friendly toward others as we should be in light of ALL THIS TRUTH we are supposed to have. Could it be for some that we have the truth, but the truth does not have us?

M.A.  

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Harry Elliott

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« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2001, 07:44:00 AM »
The problem we have created with Ellen White may be the way her gift has been represented.  Rea was an enthusiastic supporter of the Spirit of Prophecy when he discovered the extent of her copying.  He was devastated because it was far beyond what he had been led to expect.

Later the GC commisioned Fred Veltman to do a study to set the record straight.  Evidently, Veltman was also dismayed by his discoveries and the GC never published his report--other than a few xeroxed copies.

I believe that the real problem for both these researchers was NOT the question of plagiarism, per se.


Dugald T Lewis MD

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« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2001, 07:01:00 PM »
Dear Mr Elliott,

If you cannot substantiate what you are saying with intelligent references, it may be best to refrain from spreading false information. That amounts to hearsay. Have you ever read any of the SOP books for yourself? I would be interested to hear your assessment of the Desire of Ages.  

Also, I do not know of any author today who has not copied from other authors, usually with extensive Bibliographies in their books. If there were no copyright laws, then many of these writers may not have included certain of their references.

Since some wish to accuse Sis White of copying, can you tell me who she copied from as that person from whom she copied may have something more to say that Sis white herself?
I remain an honest seeker after truth.
 
Sincerely
Dugald


Harry Elliott

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« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2001, 02:18:00 PM »
Dugald--

I first read The Desire of Ages in academy over 50 years ago.  Our Bible teacher offered us a point a page to read it.  I was delighted by the flexible red cover and bible paper of the new copy my mother brought home from the Book and Bible House, where she worked. I read it from cover to cover. In those days we were taught that every thought and word in her writings were directly from her visions.  No doubt you remember.  

I am somewhat taken aback by your statement, “If you cannot substantiate what you are saying with intelligent references, it may be best to refrain from spreading false information.”  I agree: if can’t, I should.   :)  Please tell me what particular references you wish to see, and I’ll do my best to provide intelligent ones.  

--Harry


M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2001, 08:26:00 AM »
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" Matthew 5:48.

I was thinking about this verse of Scripture on Sabbath afternoon and felt impressed to comment on it at this time.

Do we really understand the importance of this text? Do we really understand the implication it has for our spiritual lives?

This is a very important verse to me because these are the words of Christ spoken to His disciples and the multitude as He taught them with regards to love for our enemies and our fellow man and how they relate to human perfection. This is not to lessen by any means the importance of non Christ-quoted Scripture because ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God (2 Tim. 3:16) and is thereby Holy. But what does it mean to "be ye perfect" as the text commands?

As I continue to read books that focus on the history of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, I see where the idea of perfection and how it is acquired with regards to salvation has been a topic of much controversy and discussion from the time of Ellen White and the pioneers to the present. Actually, to me, the answer as to how it is acquired is quite simple. There has been ONLY ONE human being who has lived a perfect, sinless life during His sojourn while here on earth. And that person was Jesus Christ. All of us before and after Him have committed personal sins of some kind and in some manner of which we are responsible. So how are we then to fulfill the call to be perfect whereby every human being who expects to be saved here in these last days must be? Herein again, for me, there is only one answer. We can be made perfect ONLY through Him who is Perfect. We must COPY THE MASTERPIECE of the Sinless Example of Christ as to how we should live if we are to achieve eternal life and apply it to our everyday living.

"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us LEAVING US AN EXAMPLE, that ye should follow his steps" (1 Peter 2:21, emphasis mine). Therefore, "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked" (1 John 2:6). For me--end of controversy, end of discussion.

What has happened in all too many cases is too many professed followers of Christ have taken a lackadaisical approach to the APPLICATION of the Word of God to their own lives. Too many have taken the "good idea" approach and do not realize that eternal life hangs in the balance and is contingent upon STRICT ADHERENCE to God's Word. One has only to look to Adam and Eve in tne Book of Genesis to know this is so: That God says what He means, and He MOST DEFINITELY means what He says!

JESUS IS THE ANSWER! He always has been and always will be for those of us who expect to get from this world to the next.

M.A.    

M.A.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2001, 07:11:00 AM »
Permit me to offer a late "thank you" to Sis. WendyF for her comments in her post dated 03-21-2001 at 09:40 AM. Oftentimes in my attempt to speed read the heavy volume of posts in the various forums, I inadvertently will overlook a posted message unintentionally.

M.A.

M.A.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2001, 10:14:00 AM »
"In the beginning God...." Genesis 1:1.

The greatest truth in all the Bible is: in the beginning God. From this truth, all other truths have their being. The Bible makes no attempt to PROVE that God exists in Genesis 1:1. The statement is stated AS FACT and moves on.

God has no beginning and He has no end. He is Eternal. There never was a time when God did not exist. Before there was a "what" or a "when," God was. I focus on this because I very firmly believe that many do not have a right understanding of the nature of God as revealed to us in Scripture. We will NEVER be able to understand all there is to know about God because He is Supreme and above all that exists. The Bible says: "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord" (Isa. 55:8). He is everywhere and in every living thing throughout His vast and limitless universe ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Secondly, only God possesses Absolute Perfection. Being holy also includes being perfect. The angels and other heavenly beings are referred to in Scripture as being holy, but only God posseses Absolute Perfection, which means HE IS INCAPABLE of making an error or mistake. The Bible says: "God cannot be tempted with evil..." (Jas. 1:13), but we know that perfect angels can because the Bible also says (referring to Lucifer): "THOU WAST PERFECT in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, til iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:15, emphasis mine).

A right understanding of God and who He is are very important in regard to our attitude toward Him. Proper reverence and respect for Him are major prerequisites toward fostering the attitude that will lead and contribute to our being the kind of Christian we are required to be if we are to be saved. A profession alone will avail us nothing. God is not interested in just our lip service. It must be accompanied by action THAT WILL PROVE if the kind of relationship we have with Christ will be that which will lead to eternal life. I can't emphasize enough that we must have the utmost respect for God and UNRESERVED ALLEGIANCE to Him in order to have a humble, meek-like, and teachable spirit that will place us in the proper spiritual posture to be led of the Holy Spirit.

M.A.      

M.A.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2001, 09:58:00 AM »
"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace...." 1 Corinthians 14:33.

I never cease to be amazed as to how some Seventh-day Adventists who are supposed to know the Word of God are ready to blame God every time something goes wrong in their lives. This is especially true among those who are attempting to gain "acceptance and legitimacy" for sexual perversions that the  Bible very clearly labels as sin in both the Old and New testaments. Even if we did not have the above Scripture, COMMON SENSE should tell us that BECAUSE God is God, and incapable of making an error, man came from His Hand PERFECT in every way. The various and sundry kinds of immoral persuasions we have today are immoral and are called sin BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS THEY ARE SIN. Some want to blame God for this out of control situation that exists in our world today, but God is not some bumbling, fumbling old man who is an absentee landlord (which is precisely what evolutionists and others want us to believe who date the earth as being millions of years old) who has either forgotten about us or is no longer interested in this little planet. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Calamity, disease, sickness, and death are the result of sin. God IS NOT responsible for these occurrences. It is a demonstration of a type of unbelief in God to accuse Him of such. Because we are human and because sin and evil still exist in this world, WE ARE NOT IMMUNE to the vissicitudes of this life just because we are Christians. Many of us have our portion of misfortune to experience just as anyone else because otherwise it would be unfair if it only rained on the just (Matt. 5:45).

Concerning afflictions, the Bible states: For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us far more exceeding and eternal way of glory" (2 Cor. 4:17). Scripture also tells us: Now no chastening [margin, infliction of pain] for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised [margin, trained] thereby" (Heb. 12:11). Sometimes the misfortunes that befall us MAY BE TESTS to see if we will remain loyal and faithful to God during the bad times as well as the good. Consequently, we need to be VERY CAREFUL when we have the boldness without shame to even think about accusing God of being insensitive to the misfortunes which come our way.

M.A.    

M.A.

jherbertthompson

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« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2001, 11:31:00 AM »
Dr. Crawford and Brother's and Sister's of the TRO.  I don't imagine any of your "long time Seventh-Day-Adventist's" may ever have considered that perhaps, like the Children of Israel of long ago, there is creeping into this church [and by design of the master lier himself, that old serpent, the devil] 'strange doctrine' which is 'of devils'...And, that the real problem is not the fact that these 'doctrines' are here, but in how you, or me, as a church address them in our Sabbath Schools, Churches, and sorted meetings with our brother's and sister's...

>What is going on in the Seventh-day >Adventist Church? Why is it that a number of >Adventist authors in recent years have begun >to challenge distinctive church doctrines >that have withstood the test of time? Why >does it appear that some in the church are >facing an identity crisis? Why does there >seem to be an ongoing "theological battle >between the liberal "leftwing" and the >conservative "rightwing" of the church that >seems to be dividing our church right down >the middle into two camps of thought?

What are the facts?  [1] We are told both in the Bible and in the Testamonies to the Church that these times would come; would creep in as a thief as-it-were; [2] satan does not us doing the 'work' we must be 'doing' in the 'present'; [3] if he [satan] can, he will keep our minds of all of the 'stuff' and 'graven images' around us; including our personal attitudes; agendas; perspectives; etc.  That, if possible we will be ever and more further and further from the Cross and Jesus Christ in our personal lives that all but mere 'shadows' of faith will remain...

Wait!  Did not Mrs. White also say in a number of places that not NEW TRUTH but NEW LIGHT ON OLD TRUTH would come!  I almost hesitate to suggest that for some of the ol' timer's, this would be a direct hieracy...But wait...Let's give an example here.  In Daniel's time, he and his three Hebrew friends refused to eat meat not only from the king's table; but also anything offered to the god's as offering...Now in the NT, Paul say's to the Corinthians, that by 'eating what has been used as an offering' without fear, they were in effect minimizing the god to whom such offering had been made...Two different times in the Bible which FOR THE SAME EXPRESSED PURPOSE proclaimed that it was the IDOL WORSHIP which was to be ignored, minimized, hated...A good argument for situational ethics or pluralizm...

Additionally, are we not to expect a 'shaking' which 'divides' this church?  The 'wheat' from the 'tares'?  Of course we are!
So, why the split?  Why the war?

In my opinion (IMO), there are several reasons which may be given, and if time allows, I hope I will be able to hit them all even if only to make their suggestion.

[1] We should all agree that it has always been God who initiates intimate contact; communion; reconciliation with those He loves...Even before we knew or acknowledged Him?

[2] That God's government, nature, and purposes are based on FREEDOM.  That without freedom there may only be resentment and anger toward one.  That freedom means the right to say YES or NO.

[3a] That it is our job first and formost to 'cleanse OURSELVES' in the hour of the Final Atonement; [3b] That our 'commission' is to [a] sow seeds of truth, kindness, and love; teach by 'exibit' in our own lives 'what is truth'; [c] and as I have said a number of times throughout these forums, we are to 'catch' the fish'; it is God's work to 'clean' the fish'. [3c] That we must constantly be mindfull of our duties both at home and abroad -- meaning that there will be those within our own congregations who will need nurturing, and the presentation of 'truth' in such a way as to be attractive and yet demand obedience.  And that there will (IMO) those who will be especially 'called' to do this work.  And abroad, the reaching of the Gospel to ALL OF THE WORLD!  And consequentially, as we 'bring them in' we nurture so that they will grow in all Godliness...

Unfortunately, and again in my opinion, we fail most on the third item almost in it's entireity...Why!  I honestly believe that it is the result of [and pardon the directness of my comment] third, fourth, and further generations of Seventh-Day-Adventist's who, unwittingly 'stack-up' all the doctrin's in front of the Cross, and the poor in spirit, the needys, the suffering, can only see the 'stuff' and not JESUS...

I have no intention of 'downing' the church. On the contrary...I believe that it is the 'vehicle' which will carry us [the remnant] through.  But who's WAR is it...Isn't it really the great controversey which has ragged long before this planet was created or went into rebellion?  It is not OUR WAR -- although we certainly are player's in the war.  No, this is a war which, praise God, has already been decided, and in which we merely play a part, showing both the unfallen universe and angels of heaven that God did not LIE...It is satan who has deceived both heaven and earth, and his time is short!

Why the war?  Because as in the day of Job, God said, "Job is a perfect man, and will say of Me what is True!"  Oh!  May that also be said of each of us in that Great Day...So today, God has said, "I will raise up a people, from the 'dregs' of humanity.  These will be a people who not only have the 'image of God' nearly stricken from their appearence; but, who cannot, in any way, shape, or form, come into repentence lest I reach down and 'pluck them out'...'brands from the burning'!

Why the war?  Satan doesn't like it!  He will not, if possible, let God pull-off this last profession of His saving power to save.  He [satan] cannot lest he be seen as he truely is; or, as he has stated before the universe, God's people cannot live the 'life' which Christ lived.  IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO OBEY THE LAW!  But my friend's, don't be decieved...God is not to be taken lightly nor His word sluffed-off as ineffective or void.

It occurs to me that the real question is 'what should we be doing about all of this'?
To which I will re-state my previous view.  We must be preparing our OWN HEARTS for His soon return lest our house be lost.  If we do this, HE WILL ATTRACT others to the beauty of HIMSELF IN us...That is, by the way, His promise!

Here is another not so likeable thought...Are we really getting any where with our programs of witnessing?  Are our church's, our ministerial staff, lay persons, or our bible classes really 'making a difference'?  I recently asked a small group of would be witnesses whether or not their witnessing program had any success?  The answer was no. I then asked whether or not they had tried new methods to see if something else might work...Like focusing on who would best suit certain types of witnessing...Again the answer was no...Well I asked, who gave you the idea for you program in the first place. Do you know what the answer was?  Well, we don't know.  I just the way every one has been doing it for as long as we can remember. Our parents, even our grandparents did it this way.  Why shouldn't it work?

And so in closing, I will commit to you the definition which I gave to this young group:

Insanity:  Doing the same thing, the same way, over and over again expecting different results.  :)

May God bless all of us on our journey.  And may each of us make the burden of someone we meet today a little lighter.

Sincerely your brother in Christ.

                 


WE ARE AT WAR! It is not a war of guns and tanks, but a battle for control of the human
                   mind and of one's way of thinking. On the one hand are those who believe that the
                   church needs to be "rehabilitated" and its fundamental doctrines "liberated" from, they
                   claim, the nineteenth century way of thinking upon which the foundational pillars of the
                   church are based. On the other are those who are opposed to tampering with any of the
                   basic doctrines or beliefs of this church. But are the former individuals correct? Are
                   church doctrines based mainly upon thinking that was characteristic of a little over 150
                   years ago, or are they based upon principles from the Word of God that are timeless?


M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #69 on: June 13, 2001, 10:12:00 AM »
Bro. Thompson, thank you for your comments. I agree with quite a bit of what you said in you previous post, but there are a couple of statements you made in your message which need clarifying so there will be no misunderstanding among our readers. You said:

1. "God's people cannot live the 'life' which Christ lived?"

What did you mean by that statement? We need you to elaborate on that a bit more.

You also said in big print:

2. "IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO OBEY THE LAW!"

What did you mean by that statement?

M.A.  

M.A.

Liane H

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« Reply #70 on: June 13, 2001, 07:52:00 PM »
Dear Brother Thompson:

Your quote and I do it in part only for it is that part that I wish to speak of: "Can only see the 'stuff' and not Jesus."

Recently my Pastor gave a sermon and said "we should not be going out telling people about doctrines, such as the Sabbath, but that we should tell them about the love of Jesus."

I find that interesting, as me being a first generation Adventist. Before I was Adventist I had been raised by agnostic parents and secular humanist beliefs. It was not until my teens and the second marriage of my mother to a Catholic that I got my first taste of religion.  

After I went on my own and had lived enough of the world that I came to realize that there had to be more to this world than chanting and yoga. So I made a search from church to church and studed on my own for several years.

Because of the abuse of my childhood I found the word "LOVE" a not so likable word. In fact as I went from church to church and heard about the love of Jesus, the more I saw was less of love and more of self. Oh, how Jesus loves ME. I got real tired of it and backed away from going to church.

It was during a period of time in my life that I decided to study for myself and with just a little Bible a friend gave me with no help on the side I started reading. What I learned was, that Jesus talked a lot about doctrine.

Looking back, I now see how the Lord led me to this church and to the truths therein. You see the Lord knew how I felt about love, the fact was. I hated the word and everything I thought it meant, so he used the only avenue in which he knew he could reach my mind. Through his doctrines.

It was those doctrines that taught me the character of God. How fair he was. How good he was. How powerful he was. How trustful he was. How consistant he was. How righteous he was, etc.

If you must say, it was through the back door was how God reached me and changed my life. He got my mind to understand and that opened the door to the final truth. His love.

We all do not come with the same mind, the same background, so not one form of witnessing can reach everybody. If there is one like me, then I know there are thousands more. For some of us, learning about the law is like learning about love, because the law is God's way of showing his love.

He is saying I care about you, that is why I wrote it. I may have seen it in the beginning as a logical way of his having written the law as a way of saving me from myself. This law that Jesus thought so important that not one line could be changed or removed that he died for and because of it.

That stuff may not be for everybody, but it sure was stuff that got me going down the right road. Right into his arms. It would be many years after becoming an Adventist before I came to understand love, and I must say that I am still learning about it, but I am getting there.  

Liane

   

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #71 on: June 14, 2001, 09:44:00 AM »
Thank you, Sis. Liane, for your very inciteful post and how doctrines can actually work for and be used as a tool to bring us into a greater understanding and appreciation of the love God has for us. I have noticed in many of your posts that you have a very special way with words in which the Spirit of God can be seen in what you say.

I was especially excited as I read your testimony about how the Lord brought you into His Remnant Church. BECAUSE God knows us and knows precisely what we stand in need of, the good news is HE WILL GIVE IT TO US if we place ourselves in the proper HUMBLE AND TEACHABLE spiritual posture to receive it.

Thanks again for your inspiring words.

M.A.  

M.A.

jherbertthompson

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« Reply #72 on: June 18, 2001, 04:47:00 PM »
Brother's and Sister's.  Thanks to those who have made comments herein regarding this topic and my post particularly.

I am going to try and define more distinctly my meaning of the following in order to answer Brother Crawford's and perhaps other's question:

1. "God's people cannot live the 'life' which Christ lived?"

What did you mean by that and the following statement? We need you to elaborate on that a bit more.

[2] "IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO OBEY THE LAW!"


Without being triteor cliche.  Let's consider a definition here which I use quite often in both my testimony and in groups who are re-evaluating their witnessing program:  Insanity:  Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

The point is this, throughout Romans, chapter's 1-8 [actually in most all of his books] Paul very clearly makes the statement [assumption] that we clearly understand that "without Him, we can do nothing".  Justification, Sanctification, and the Imputed Righteousness of Christ [Righteousness by Faith], are hall marks of the Advent message...

However, a distinction, I believe may be made regarding those who stand through the "Latter Rain" and "Time of Jacob's Trouble"...These are clearly "Overcomer's".  They have been purified by the "fire's of adversity", and their's are the only one's who's experience is that of the "translated character"...Are you with me?

By pure definition, those who live lives in the Justification or Imputation stage of their experience are, unable to live the life which Christ lived.  The Righteousness of Christ is Imputed to them, and they, along with countless millions who have been layed to rest before them, are "made righteous by His sacrifice".  Still with me?

This would also apply to the statement of mine that it is impossible to live by the Law.  Those who are translated will not be living by the Law on their own efforts...They will, however, have consectated their lives to Christ; they will have become so settled into the truth, that they cannot be shaken from it...What do you say?

I might go on further here.  For the sake of discussion however, I'll leave it rest.

God bless all, your servant in Christ.


M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #73 on: June 19, 2001, 08:41:00 AM »
"By pure definition, those who live lives in the Justification or Imputation stage of their experience are, unable to live the life which Christ lived."

I need you to elaborate on that statement a bit more. I am not sure what you are saying here.

"...Those who are translated will not be living by the law on their own efforts...."

I also need you to elaborate a bit more on that statement. Again, I see what you are saying, but I want to make sure I understand you correctly.

M.A.

M.A.

jherbertthompson

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« Reply #74 on: June 19, 2001, 03:30:00 PM »
Brother Crawford & TRO.  Now  I am thoroughly confused?  ???

>"By pure definition, those who live lives in >the Justification or Imputation stage of >their experience are, unable to live the >life which Christ lived."

ELABORATION: Brethern, I may very well be off base here as I have spread myself over so many threads in this forum that I'm probably "missing it" in most.  These topics, however, have been in the course of study which I've taken up during the past 18 months or so, and I'm honestly trying to absorb as much as I can, as quickly as I can...

Okay!  That said, here we go...Simply enough, as I currently understand the OT Sancturary service [model], the justification portion of the yearly service took place in the camp of Israel "daily" in "offering's, sacrifice's, etc."...The "imputed righteousness", as symbolized in the "life" or "blood" of the lamb symbolized what would later take place in the "Heavenly Sanctuary"...

Therefore, and processing this with only a little fore-knowledge, I make this conclussion:  Prior to 1844, all lived in the "daily sacrificing [justification] & covering by the blood or life [imputation] period of the services in the Heavenly Temple"...Are you with me so far?  Further observation of this would conclued that, prior to the cross, this element [justification and imputation through the sanctuary model] was especially true.

Following the cross, I will leave a couple of short suggestions:  [1] AA, p.374,375; "With great clearness and power the apostle presented the doctrine of justification by faith in christ.  He hoped that other churches also might be helped by the instruction sent to the Christians at Rome; but how dimly could he foresee the far-reaching influence of his words!...When the Spirit of God controls mind and heart, the converted sould breaks forth into a "new song", for he realizes that in his experience the promise of God has been fulfilled, that his transgression has been forgiven, his sin covered...He has exercised repentance toward God for the violation of the divine law, and faith toward christ, who died for man's justification..."

And, in the Plan of Redemption, p.18; "With the sins of the world laid upon Him, He would go over the ground where Adam stumbled.  He would bear a test infinitely more severe than that which Adam failed to endure.  He would overcome on man's account, and conquer the tempter, that, throught His obedience, His purity of character and steadfast intergrity, His righteousness might be imputed to man, that, through His name, man might overcome the foe on his own account."  NOTICE THE LASR SENTENCE!!  Particularly the last portion of that sentence...

Friends, this is a subject of which I realize I have not even scratched the surface...May God richly bless all those who study, to be approved by both God and man in the last day spreading of His way of Government, the Truth about His character, law, and nature...

Sincerely your brother in Christ.  


                   


jherbertthompson

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« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2001, 02:34:00 PM »
Brethern.  I have made a post in the "Justification" thread of this forum...This may also clear up the point which I was trying to make in this thread last evening...

If it does not; or, if it becomes as clear as mud, please make comments...I am going to be using some of this as research for a paper which is being written.

Your brother in Christ.


M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2001, 09:42:00 AM »
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people...." Daniel 12:1.

The name Michael in Scripture is another name for Christ. There are several texts which lend support to that conclusion:

1. In Daniel 12:1, Michael is mentioned as "the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people." There is ONLY ONE GREAT PRINCE who stands for the children of the people, and His Name is Christ.

2. In 1 Thessalonians 4:16, the Bible says: "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel...." It is the Lord Himself who shall descend from Heaven WITH THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL. That voice is here identified as the voice of the Lord Himself: Jesus Christ.

3. Jude 9 reads: "Yet Michael the archangel, who when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."  Notice who says "the Lord rebuke thee." It is Michael the Archangel.

4. Revelation 12:7 reads: "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels." Once upon eternity, all the angels of God were commanded by Christ. There are only two forces that command angels: the forces of good and truth led by Christ, and the forces of evil led by Satan. The original title of Mrs. White's book was The Great Controversy Between Christ and His Angels and Satan and His Angels before it was shortened to The Great Controversy.

The title "Archangel" translated from the Greek means "Chief Messenger." In reference to this, the SDA Encyclopedia on page 879 reads:

"The Millerites and others identified Michael the archangel with Christ. In an exposition of Dan 12:1 William Miller wrote: 'Michael, in this passage, must mean Christ: He is the great Prince, and Prince of princes' (Evidences from Scripture and History of the Second Coming of Christ, 1840, pp. 108, cf. p. 209)....

"Most SDA's have held that Michael is Christ. On the basis of these and other passages of Scripture, SDA's conclude that Michael is none other than Christ--'archangel' not in the sense of being the highest angel (chief among equals), but of being ruler over the angelic hosts (as infinitely superior to them)...."

To be continued.

M.A.    

M.A.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #77 on: July 01, 2001, 07:46:00 AM »
"...and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation...." Daniel 12:1.

The servant of the Lord in the book The Great Controversy on pp. 613-620 writes:

"When the third angel's message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God had accomplished their work. They have received 'the latter rain,' 'the refreshing from the presence of the Lord,' and they are prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are hastening to and fro in heaven. An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received 'the seal of the living God.' Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands and with a loud voice says, 'It is done'.... Every case has been decided for life or death. Christ has made the atonement for His people and blotted out their sins. The number of His subjects is made up....

"When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's longsuffering has ended....As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old....

"Those who honor the law of God have been accused of bringing judgments upon the world, and they will be regarded as the cause of the fearful convulsions of nature and the strife and bloodshed among men that are filling the earth with woe....

"As the Sabbath has become the special point of controversy throughout Christendom, and religious and secular authorities have combined to enforce the observance of the Sunday, the persistent refusal of a small minority to yield to the popular demand will make them objects of universal execration. It will be urged that the few who stand in opposition to an institution of the church and a law of the state ought not to be tolerated; that it is better for them to suffer than for whole nations to be thrown into confusion and lawlessness....This argument will appear conclusive; and a decree will finally be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death....

"As Satan influenced Esau to march against Jacob, so he will stir up the wicked to destroy God's people in the time of trouble....

"As Satan accuses the people of God on account of their sins, the Lord permits him to try them to the uttermost. Their confidence in God, their faith and firmness, will be severely tested. As they review the past their hopes sink; for in their whole lives they can see little good. They are fully conscious of their weakness and unworthiness. Satan endeavors to terrify them with the thought that their cases are hopeless, that the stain of their defilement will never be washed away. He hopes so to destroy their faith that they will yield to his temptations and turn from their allegiance to God....

"They afflict their souls before God, pointing to their past repentance of their many sins, and pleading the Saviour's promise: 'Let them take hold of My strength, that they may make peace with Me; and he shall make peace with Me.' Isaiah 27:5. THEIR FAITH DOES NOT FAIL because their prayers are not immediately answered. Though suffering the keenest anxiety, terror, and distress, THEY DO NOT CEASE THEIR INTERCESSIONS. They lay hold OF THE STRENGTH OF GOD as Jacob laid hold of the Angel; and the language of their souls is: 'I will not let Thee go, except Thou bless me (Emphasis mine)...."

To be continued.

M.A.  

M.A.

Liane H

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« Reply #78 on: July 01, 2001, 08:04:00 AM »
Hi MA:

Thank you for this post. I cannot yet find it, but I remembr one statement that EGW made from the SOP: "We need not fear of the time of trouble, for God will send down to us all that we need to endure this time. We will not be alone. Angels will guard us and His Spirit will be with us."

It will "appear" that there will be no evidence of this, that is why it will be a walk of faith. But we must remember this. God never forsakes His own. Never!

Liane

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

M.A. Crawford

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« Reply #79 on: July 22, 2001, 07:59:00 AM »
"...Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Romans 12:19.

Someone has said that the most terrible thing to happen to a human being in all the universe is to fall into the hands of an angry God. Why is God angry?

God's messenger, Ellen G. White, has warned us that a shaking is going to take place in this Seventh-day Adventist Church and everything that can be shaken will be shaken (1T 179-184). I believe that time has arrived. I believe the devil is using spiritual "wolves in sheep's clothing" to mislead God's people for the sole purpose of causing them to be lost. These very influential and highly respected men and women are trying to get the true followers of Christ to have present-day reservations about time-honored Scriptures that have withstood the test of time, but lo and behold are now all of a sudden no longer relevant. They have reinterpreted certain Scripture TO MAKE IT SAY WHAT THEY WANT IT TO SAY, and have gotten some influential ministers and church leaders to concur with and promote this reinterpretation that has supposedly spawned "new light" on the controversial issues which presently confront us.

As rank and file members of the church, we are either for or against these reinterpretations of God's Holy Word. THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND. We shall be compelled to take a stand either for or against these "new directions" that some are trying to lead this church of which I firmly believe are detrimental to the spiritual growth and development of it because of their improper focus.

I don't know about others but I DO NOT plan to gamble with my soul salvation by placing it in the hands of men and women who are trying to force their agenda and interpretation of Scripture upon this church in a manner and spirit that are not consistent with the spirit of Christ. The Bible IS NOT to be tampered with. It is to be followed. WHAT IF THEY ARE WRONG? I believe they are wrong in their reinterpretation of and tampering with Scripture. And because I do I am not willing to gamble with my salvation to find out otherwise, and incur the wrath of God for siding with the enemies of Christ and His Word.

M.A.

M.A.