Author Topic: Justification by Faith  (Read 87786 times)

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billy

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #240 on: April 27, 2012, 03:29:26 PM »
Romans 7:17-24

17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Paul does not make the same claims as you do, I would much rather believe Paul than believe what you say.

Glen

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #241 on: April 27, 2012, 03:32:05 PM »
Even the very best Biblical characters were sinners. Whether ones sins a little bit or to a large degree we are all sinners. All in need of saving grace. So sin does not determine if we are walking in the spirit or not. The very best of us are sinners. In fact Paul said he was the chief of sinners.

Am I getting the right impression that the folk think that the law can be kept by us and we will live a life of sinlessness?

I would make a few points for clarification, Billy:

First of all, please understand that the Godhead are (standing here), simply beside Themselves, in Their eagerness and Love, to give each of us an abundant entrance into the Kingdom! To the true Believer, anything is possible with God!
...give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.2 Peter 1:10, 11

With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. Matthew 19:26


"...the very best (of) Biblical characters" is Jesus Christ.
...hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, THAT YE should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Jesus said of Himself:
My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17 If ANY man will DO his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. John 7:16, 17 Couldn't the "If any man" include any one of us? That's what the Godhead is calling humanity to do. Every "holy man of God" in the past has been called to turn the people of their generation to righteousness; why not you, Billie? Have you "lifted" up Jesus Christ in YOUR life? What does the Holy Spirit refer to when the holy man of God talks about being baptized in the likeness of Christ's death? -that the life also of Christ might rein in your mortal body? (see Romans 6:9-13) Have you, have I, consented to let Jesus be made sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him? Has the Father sent you?

Jesus, in the likeness of sinful flesh declared:


...he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. 27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. 29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. John 8:26-29

Enoch let Christ dwell within his soul until the Day Star eclipsed everything earthly from his view, and his thoughts became only righteous, continually. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Hebrews 11:5

...God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. Genesis 6:5-9

The understanding of those Believers who live in the last generation will be enlightened, Brother Billy, to perceive the richness of the riches of Christ dwelling within their soul-temple! (see Colossians 3:16)
 

...Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. Hebrews 3:6
I am reminded, whenever I read this verse, of Christ's words: When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. Matthew 12:43-45 -And I wonder with astonishment and deep soul-searching, considering also the response of the disciples when Jesus said that one of them should betray Him, how they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I? Matthew 26:22

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9


Billy, am I to accept by what you are telling me, that every sinner that Christ makes "free indeed" will continue to be servant to the devil and a perpetrator of sin? -that the best I can hope for is that we are merely forgiven; that God is unable to transform us and make us conformable to the death (and life) of Christ? Jesus represented humanity inhabited or possessed by the Spirit of God, even Divinity, showing mankind that they are to be inhabited or possessed by the Spirit of God, thus to live henceforth as Partaker, -partaking of the Divine Nature! Examine the life of Christ as the Bible records that wonderful "Bible Character", as He walked in the likeness of sinful flesh, as He condemned sin in the flesh, as you consider how and whether the Christian will walk as He walked. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1 John 2:6 God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5 I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. John 8:12  He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. John 7:18

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. John 8:34-36

...my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having DONE all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench ALL the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication... Hebrews 6:10-18

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 1 John 5:18


...every son and daughter of Adam may, through faith in their Redeemer, cooperate with heavenly intelligences, and oppose the workings of Satan, and thus bring in everlasting righteousness. The Lord Jesus would take man into partnership with himself. Human intelligences have been endowed by their Creator with capabilities and powers, which, if surrendered to God, will promote his glory in building up his kingdom in the earth. Human beings can reach human beings through the imparted gift of the Spirit of God. Through faith man accepts the world’s Redeemer as his Captain, and when standing under his blood-stained banner, he becomes a partaker of the divine nature, and in cooperation with God is to act an important part in revealing the glory of God to a world in the darkness of transgression. Unless man shall fully cooperate with Christ in the work of rescuing souls from evil, the plan of salvation can never be carried out. The Signs of the Times October 8, 1894.08

...the steady soul who loves and fears God, will be as firm in his Heaven-inspired purpose as was Daniel, and will not be swerved from his convictions of duty  God has a work for his faithful ones to do, to stand in defense of the truth like faithful Noah. They will warn and entreat, and show by their works their faith. They stand as God’s agents...in noble, whole-souled fidelity, the moral character untarnished. Counsels to Physicians and Medical Students, Page 5

Every true disciple is born into the kingdom of God as a missionary. He who drinks of the living water becomes a fountain of life. The receiver becomes a giver. The grace of Christ in the soul is like a spring in the desert, welling up to refresh all, and making those who are ready to perish eager to drink of the water of life.—The Desire of Ages, 195.

...saviours of men like their Master. They will be exposed to hatred and reproach as was their Master. Enmity will be aroused, hatred and false accusations will pour like a torrent around them to wrench them from their high moral position, but they have their foundation on the Rock, and remain unmoved at their chosen post of duty, warning, entreating, rebuking sin and pleasure-lovers by their moral rectitude and circumspect conversation. God’s servants who will hear the “Well done” from his divine lips, will be heroic ministers of righteousness, although they may not preach in the desk. They are constantly ministering, loyal to their sense of God’s claims upon them, jealous of their own selves, lest they shall dishonor the Lord that taught them to stand in defense of right and duty at any loss to themselves. This is the work of the Christian soldier. That which will stand under the pressure of temptation is heart religion. The whole heart must be given to God; if any portion of it be withheld, we have no right to claim the promise of being the favored sons and daughters of God. Counsels to Physicians and Medical Students, Page 6


...Jesus...will live through (YOU), giving (YOU) the inspiration of His sanctifying Spirit, imparting to (YOUR) soul a vital transfusion of Himself. Sabbath-School Worker 02-01-96.03  ...as the blood is in the body, and circulate there as a vitalizing power... 7T 189.02

Mimi

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #242 on: April 27, 2012, 04:07:16 PM »
Romans 7:17-24

17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Paul does not make the same claims as you do, I would much rather believe Paul than believe what you say.

This is Paul's experience before conversion - no power to obey, Billy. Many people take Romans 7 as the typical Christian experience and settle into it thinking that's how it is going to be, but this is not so. You need to read and understand the entirety of Paul's writings in the New Testament and you would discover what is written. And, I'd find a Bible translation that includes everything he said, not just part of it.

Jesus wants us to be overcomers. In fact, he says we must be to enter into heaven. So if you had rather believe what Paul says in Romans 7 and actually believe that it is the converted Christian's experience rather than what Richard has been long-suffering in explaining to you, which is Bible truth, I am very sorry. You will be forever stuck in a round of fruitless attempts to have a joyful spiritual experience. In fact, you will be a very miserable Christian because you cannot measure up to the great standard God has set for His people. It is amazing so many Seventh-day Adventists believe this, when a great number of God's people in other denominations know it to be Paul's pre-conversion experience.

Jesus' church will have neither spot nor blemish. With your way of thinking, God will take to heaven an imperfect church and sin will once more enter heaven. That won't be the case. Go back and restudy everything Paul wrote. You will see that life in the Spirit is overcoming sin by the power of God's Spirit and by abiding in Him every minute of every day, no - we will not sin.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

colporteur

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #243 on: April 27, 2012, 06:18:50 PM »
Am I getting the right impression that the folk think that the law can be kept by us and we will live a life of sinlessness?

 If you mean by "live a life of sinlessness" reaching a point where we are so connected with God that  He lives out His life in us, one where we no longer sin, absolutely ! Not that there are any that have not sinned but the faithful will no longer be sinning when Jesus comes. Do you believe Phil. 4:13 ? " I can do ALL things through Christ which strengtheneth me."

Jesus said in John 14:15 "If ye love Me keep my commandments." It sounds like you are saying if we love Jesus just give Him lip service because we cannot obey Him. God's biddings are His enabling. He does not command the impossible. That would be cruel and unrighteous.
If you do not believe that Paul is here saying we can live without sinning then what would be the point of Christ strengthening  us ? Strengthening us for what? So we can keep sinning ? Christ gives us strength to live a Christlike live and separating us from sin and sinning.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

colporteur

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #244 on: April 27, 2012, 06:29:58 PM »
Jesus' church will have neither spot nor blemish. With your way of thinking, God will take to heaven an imperfect church and sin will once more enter heaven.

Either that or like most evangelicals he believes that at translation he who is filthy will not be filthy still, but will be made righteous when Jesus pushes a magic button and forces a change in the character. People who believe this do not believe that earth is a testing ground and a place where the character is perfected.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

Richard Myers

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #245 on: April 27, 2012, 06:31:08 PM »
Billie, I am very tempted to share with you the truth of the verses you quote from Romans 7, but I can't right now.  I can reconcile Romans 7 with Romans 8 and the rest of the Bible, but you cannot reconcile Romans 8 with what you have just shared. So, we await your attempt to reconcile the two Books. You have done 8:1 and 2. Let's hear your teaching on verses 8:3-14.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Mimi

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #246 on: April 27, 2012, 06:36:47 PM »
Jesus' church will have neither spot nor blemish. With your way of thinking, God will take to heaven an imperfect church and sin will once more enter heaven.

Either that or like most evangelicals he believes that at translation he who is filthy will not be filthy still, but will be made righteous when Jesus pushes a magic button and forces a change in the character. People who believe this do not believe that earth is a testing ground and a place where the character is perfected.


It is so true, Colporteur. We met it in our own Sabbath School about six weeks ago when one of our members said, "When Jesus comes and changes our characters ..." [paraphrasing], it had to be met. The poor member was stunned. After a discussion, he realized he had a work to do.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

billy

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #247 on: April 27, 2012, 10:36:52 PM »
(Billy, am I to accept by what you are telling me, that every sinner that Christ makes "free indeed" will continue to be servant to the devil and a perpetrator of sin? -that the best I can hope for is that we are merely forgiven; that God is unable to transform us and make us conformable to the death (and life) of Christ?) Glen

If Dr Des Ford has said it once he has said it a thousand times. "God does not justify anyone with whom He cannot sanctify"

Meaning this that when a person is justified they do not stay in the gutter. It does not mean that the person becomes sinless. In fact Ford also says "that a person would rather die than commit a known sin".

Again this does not mean a person will go through life never committing a sin, know or unknown.

Sin is not so much as what we do but who we are. We were born to sin, Christ was not.

asygo

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #248 on: April 27, 2012, 11:10:03 PM »
...one of our members said, "When Jesus comes and changes our characters ..." [paraphrasing]

Let him who is holy be holy still, and him who is unholy be unholy still. [paraphrasing]

There will be a big change in us when Jesus comes, but it won't be character.
By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
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asygo

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #249 on: April 27, 2012, 11:15:18 PM »
Romans 7:17-24
...
Paul does not make the same claims as you do, I would much rather believe Paul than believe what you say.

This is Paul's experience before conversion - no power to obey, Billy.

Sybil, you know I do not believe that Rom 7 was pre-conversion Paul, nor do I believe that it teaches "no power to obey," right? If not, you do now. :)

"For the good that I wish..." is not the sentiment of the unregenerate. The unconverted does not wish for good. But there's a thread for this somewhere else....
By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
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asygo

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #250 on: April 28, 2012, 12:23:40 AM »
Again this does not mean a person will go through life never committing a sin, know or unknown.

John said that whoever is born of God cannot sin. (1Jn 3:9) So on some level, in some way, Christians are able to completely abstain from sin.

Sin is not so much as what we do but who we are.

That's true. So if we are going to forsake sin, the change must happen not so much in what we do, but in who we are. Can God change that?

We were born to sin...

That may be true, though it is probably more accurate to say we are born IN sin, rather than TO sin. However, it is certain that we are NOT re-born TO sin. Sinning does not require re-birth; the natural birth is more than good enough for that.

Instead, we are re-born or re-created in Jesus for good works. Yes, God does this by grace, through faith, not of ourselves, not by our righteous works. (Eph 2:8-10, Titus 3:5) But His purpose is not for us to continue to sin, but for us to manifest good works, that He may be glorified. (Matthew 5:16)

Perhaps the key is to understand that though we all may be "born to sin" those who are reborn have a completely different purpose. They are no longer who they used to be. What they do is different because who they are has been changed. Though they may have been children of wrath by nature, they now partake of the divine nature and are now children of God. (Eph 2:3, 2Peter 1:4, John 1:12) Perhaps more important than what we were is what we have become by grace through faith, if indeed we have received Him.
By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
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billy

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #251 on: April 28, 2012, 03:38:47 AM »
Does anyone know of a person who has reached the point in their life where they do not sin?

billy

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #252 on: April 28, 2012, 04:44:04 AM »
(John said that whoever is born of God cannot sin. (1Jn 3:9) So on some level, in some way, Christians are able to completely abstain from sin) asygo.

There is no point in making a quote such as the one above if you are still sinning. I do not know of anyone who has completely abstained from sin. I am very reluctant to name anyone who does not sin but if I had to put up a name it would be Des Ford and I would say he would reject that out right.

colporteur

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #253 on: April 28, 2012, 05:39:51 AM »
Does anyone know of a person who has reached the point in their life where they do not sin?

billy, are you asking us to judge the heart and motives of all around us ? Why doubt God?
What if I said , "yes" "I know someone who no longer sins." Would you believe it? Would you not say "who made you judge?" Your question is not reasonable and takes a position of unbelief. You are essentially saying that unless someone can prove to you anyone is ready for translation you will not believe. There is a time ,billy, that like with doubting Thomas, Jesus will ask you to thrust your hand in His side. By faith, that time is now, while there is still a little time left.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

billy

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #254 on: April 28, 2012, 06:09:51 AM »
(billy, are you asking us to judge the heart and motives of all around us ? Why doubt God?
What if I said , "yes" "I know someone who no longer sins." Would you believe it? Would you not say "who made you judge?" Your question is not reasonable and takes a position of unbelief. You are essentially saying that unless someone can prove to you anyone is ready for translation you will not believe. There is a time ,billy, that like with doubting Thomas, Jesus will ask you to thrust your hand in His side. By faith, that time is now, while there is still a little time left.)

The only reason you cannot name anyone is that there is no one who does not sin every day and I would quote 1 John 1:8

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"

That verse does away with all thoughts of perfectionism and sinlessness in our life on this earth.

OK, do not look at others but look at your own self, each and everyone of us here and who can put their hand up and say just for one day that they are sinless?

I can be sure that not one person can do it. Yet that is what is being claimed here.

Mimi

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #255 on: April 28, 2012, 06:21:58 AM »
Romans 7:17-24
...
Paul does not make the same claims as you do, I would much rather believe Paul than believe what you say.

This is Paul's experience before conversion - no power to obey, Billy.

Sybil, you know I do not believe that Rom 7 was pre-conversion Paul, nor do I believe that it teaches "no power to obey," right? If not, you do now. :)

"For the good that I wish..." is not the sentiment of the unregenerate. The unconverted does not wish for good. But there's a thread for this somewhere else....

Give me your hand and let's walk back over there. Romans 7 & 8 Or better yet, let's ask Richard to open for us a private discussion room for this examination. If you have something to teach me, I am willing; however, I ask the same of you, my dearest brother.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Glen

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #256 on: April 28, 2012, 06:35:33 AM »
Sin is not so much as what we do but who we are. We were born to sin, Christ was not.

Lucifer and Adam and Eve were not born in/to sin; yet, they sinned. Scripture succinctly defines sin as ...the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4 "What we are" is as quick as faith, and faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 -This works for the Unbeliever, as well. Those whom Christ said, Oh ye of little faith, (in things of God) were giants in faith  (in things of evil) when their mind was concentrating on the suggestions of Satan).

“Choose you this day whom ye will serve.” Joshua 24:15. Everyone may place his will on the side of the will of God, may choose to obey Him, and by thus linking himself with divine agencies, he may stand where nothing can force him to do evil. In every youth, every child, lies the power, by the help of God, to form a character of integrity and to live a life of usefulness. Education 289.01

...what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.  7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:3-9

The verses above plainly say that the law cannot work righteousness in the soul that is carnal and does not have the Spirit of God. The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God; however, to be Spiritually minded, one is indeed subject to the law of God, and will keep it, taking extreme pleasure in keeping it, for as a member in particular of the body of Christ, the Believer does what the Mind, (Christ as the Head) dictates. Through the will of Christ; His character embodies the character and Spirit of the Father.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 1 John 5:3

In Christ, the Universal Law, in a manner of speaking, that ...the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. Galatians 5:17 -holds specifically and significantly true in the Believer. The Spirit lusteth against the flesh, or carnal mind mentality, so that, as a Believer, possessed by the Spirit of God, cannot do the things you did, I did, and others do, who have the carnal mind. When one receives Christ, His mind and way of thinking about sin, one becomes a new creature. (Genesis 3:15; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15) The true Believer will hate sin with the same wrath God hates it, For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13 God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:11, 12

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10

If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Luke 9:23
-This is the question for each of us; are we willing to ...resist...unto blood, striving against sin. Hebrews 12:4 ?

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. Genesis 4:7

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of (us) should seem to come short of it. Hebrews 4:1

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6
...Jesus...will live through (YOU), giving (YOU) the inspiration of His sanctifying Spirit, imparting to (YOUR) soul a vital transfusion of Himself. Sabbath-School Worker 02-01-96.03  ...as the blood is in the body, and circulate there as a vitalizing power... 7T 189.02

colporteur

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #257 on: April 28, 2012, 06:58:40 AM »
(billy, are you asking us to judge the heart and motives of all around us ? Why doubt God?
What if I said , "yes" "I know someone who no longer sins." Would you believe it? Would you not say "who made you judge?" Your question is not reasonable and takes a position of unbelief. You are essentially saying that unless someone can prove to you anyone is ready for translation you will not believe. There is a time ,billy, that like with doubting Thomas, Jesus will ask you to thrust your hand in His side. By faith, that time is now, while there is still a little time left.)

The only reason you cannot name anyone is that there is no one who does not sin every day and I would quote 1 John 1:8

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"

That verse does away with all thoughts of perfectionism and sinlessness in our life on this earth.

OK, do not look at others but look at your own self, each and everyone of us here and who can put their hand up and say just for one day that they are sinless?

I can be sure that not one person can do it. Yet that is what is being claimed here.

Why the defeatest attitude. Is Satan bigger than Christ ? Has he more power to keep you sinning  than Christ to free you.

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"

This verse is referring to having a record of sin in our lives. We all do. However, you have a serious contradiction if you take that to me that you will continue to sin all the days of your life.

Two questions, billy. Do you believe Phil. 4:13  ? " I can do all things through Christ that strengtheneth me."
Do you believe we can do what God has called us to do ?  You are speaking with the spirit of unconversion. God has better news for you than that. But you have to love the truth and deny the world and the carnal nature that naturally besets man.

The problem is that you are leaving Christ out of the picture. When you do that you are absolutely correct. It is impossible to be free from sin in your life on your own. However you limit Christ and his power and give the power to the enemy. If we either love sin or have a spirit of unbelief we have lost the gospel. There is no good news in the idea that we will continue to sin. If we, as you claim, continue in hopeless sin, when will that stop ? Will there be sin in heaven ?

Can you prove that God's people are sinning? Can you judge the hearts and minds of all men ? One again you are going to the polls for proof rather than God's Word.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

Richard Myers

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #258 on: April 28, 2012, 08:49:48 AM »
Billie, it is good that all may understand where you are coming from. You have been misled by many in Australia who have been misled by Ford and others. His false teaching is alive and well in your country and has even spread beyond Australia. We are not here to give influence to this false teaching. But, we will allow you to present what you see as truth in regards to Romans 8 verses 1-14.  If you do not restrict yourself to that subject, you will no longer be able to post in our fellowship. You will have to find some other place to misrepresent Jesus, His Word, and His church.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

asygo

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Re: Justification by Faith
« Reply #259 on: April 28, 2012, 09:03:00 AM »
Does anyone know of a person who has reached the point in their life where they do not sin?

You do know that your question is equivalent to asking if anyone knows of a person who follows Jesus all the time, right?
By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go
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