Author Topic: The Hebrew Sanctuary  (Read 110826 times)

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Harry Elliott

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2001, 02:23:00 PM »
Hi Liane-

I got my information from Numbers 28.

ďThis is the offering made by fire which ye shall offer  unto the Lord; two lambs of the first year without spot day by day, for a coninual burnt offering.Ē Vs 3

Verses 10, 15, and 24 indicate that other offerings--even burnt offerings--are to be ďbeside the continual burnt offeringĒ.

--Harry


Richard Myers

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2001, 08:54:00 PM »
Brother Harry, let us begin with some simple truths before we begin to ascertain what is happening on the day of atonement. We may not correctly interpret what is happening in Lev. 16 independent of the rest of the Bible.

When a sinner brought his lamb into the courtyard and killed it, what happened to the sins that were confessed upon the head of the lamb?

Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Harry Elliott

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #82 on: April 08, 2001, 12:02:00 AM »
Hi Richard--

I guess we agree that taken in isolation, the Day of Atonement establishes nothing about Jesusí ministry.  Although I suspect you wouldnít put it quite that way.  :)

As Iíve said before, I like to start any question about the Bible with the pertinent passage.
Since you have mentioned Leviticus 4 before, I presume you mean the sacrifice of the lambs and goats for sins of ignorance described in verses  27-35?

I donít see that it says that anything happens to the sins, per se.  However, it does say that the blood of the sacrificed animals was applied to the altar in the courtyard. Is this what you mean?

--Harry


Richard Myers

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #83 on: April 08, 2001, 07:27:00 AM »
Brother Harry, you are not in harmony in the least with what we believe as a people? Do yo not believe that the confessed sins were recorded in heaven? Do you not believe that the sins were taken into the holy place? This is why we cannot begin with the Day of Atonement. If you do not believe the sanctuary was defiled by our sins, then you see no need to make an atonement for it. Therefore a false interpretation is the only possibility as you attempt to explain the service on the Day of Atonement.<P>What do you believe was the purpose of carrying the blood into the holy place and touching the horns of the altar of incense? "And the priest shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation." Lev. 4:7. Why was this necessary? And why was it necessary to make an atonement for the sanctuary?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Harry Elliott

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #84 on: April 08, 2001, 01:15:00 PM »
Hi Richard--

I appreciate your persistence re the daily.  I am studying the rest of Levitcus at last!  :)

Iíve completed the first 5 chapters so far. Of course, I have read it before, but never REALLY studied it.  My method is to underline (in one of my KJVs) every type of sacrifice, the reason, where the blood and body parts are disposed of, and whether itís a sin offering or burnt offering, etc.  Oh yes, and whether itís called an atonement. Itís hard work, but itís fun.

I highly recommend this method to everyone who is serious about the Hebrew sanctuary.  The underlined portions of my Bible jump right out at me.  In the future, when my 68 year old grey matter forgets, Iíll be able to refresh it  easily.

Iím not sure why you keep asking me what I believe.  Iím determined to believe whatever the
Bible clearly says, just like you. Thatís why I keep  rephrasing your questions about what I believe into questions about what I have found the Bible to say.

You quoted Lev 4:7 and asked why this was necessary.  With the help of my new underlines, Iím able to let scripture explain this scripture.  A few verses before, it explains:

ďIf the priest that is anointed so SIN according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his SIN, whch he hath SINNED, ...a SIN offering.Ē  (Lev 4:3)

And you asked why was it necessary to make an atonement for the sanctuary?

ďAnd he shall make an atonement for the holy place because of the UNCLEANNESS of the children of Israel, and because of their TRANSGRESSIONS in ALL THEIR SINS: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that REMAINETH AMONG THEM in the MIDST OF THEIR UNCLEANNESS.Ē (Lev 16:16)

ďAnd Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him ALL THE INIQUITIES of the children of Israel, and ALL THEIR TRANSGRESSION in ALL THEIR SINS..Ē (Lev 16:21a)

I get the feeling that you have some other texts in mind, perhaps in the chapters I havenít studied yet.  Just point the way.

--Harry


Liane H

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #85 on: April 08, 2001, 04:44:00 PM »
Hi Harry:

We just got back from Virginia City and I will be home tomorrow morning and I will be able to write more.

There is only two places where the Day of Atonement is mentioned in the whole Bible for literal Israel and they both are in Leviticus, Chapters 16 and 23.

Numbers 28 is regarding three yearly events which apply to the daily; the sabbath and monthly offerings; as well as the offerings of the appointed feasts. This chapter does not apply to the Day of atonement.

As much as I love discussing the Day of Atonement, perhaps Richard is correct, we need to start with the daily and then go onto the day of atonement. I guess I had assumed you had a foundation regarding the the daily already in your experience. Or you do, but need to know more.  The daily has much to teach about the application of the blood as pertain to justification and the complete understanding of Christ work in both places.

The old testament gives us the foundation of this work that Christ now does for us today in the Most Holy place.

Could you give me a discription of the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place and what is in each room and what is in the courtyard as well. I would like to know what your understanding is of the temple.

I will be back tomorrow and write more.

Liane

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Richard Myers

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #86 on: April 08, 2001, 06:12:00 PM »
Brother Harry, I believe I see where you want to go with your interpretations. It seems you would do away with the investigative judgment, in which case you would have to ignore much of the Bible.

We don't ask anyone to blindly accept what the church believes, but I do think the baptismal vows acknowlege an acceptance of our doctrines which would include the investigative judgment. It seems that prior to baptism the subject should be thoroughly understood since it lies at the foundation of our faith. How could one call himself a Seventh-day Adventist Christian and not believe in the investigative judgment which began in 1844? If we were to ignore the doctrine, then how could we, as a people, be about the business of perfecting Christian characters before Christ ceases His intercession? We could not and therefore we would continue to delay the coming of Jesus as we have done for the last 160 years. We are living in the anti-typical Day of Atonement and we are to be searching our hearts for sins that have not been overcome. Soon Jesus will cease to forgive sins and then probation will have closed for all. Any who sin after this time will not be given another chance, for their characters will be fixed. After the sanctuary is cleansed, no sins will defile it ever again. The books in heaven will be closed. Let us look to Jesus for grace to overcome now while probation remains open.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Harry Elliott

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #87 on: April 08, 2001, 09:45:00 PM »
 Hi Liane--

Welcome back--again.

I have cheerfully conceded on the point of studying the daily first. To me the ministry of the sanctuary is more interesting than the furniture, however if you have a particular passage regarding the furnishings that you would like to discuss, I'd enjoy that too.

--Harry


Harry Elliott

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #88 on: April 08, 2001, 10:28:00 PM »
Hi Richard--

My outline of Leviticus 16 was not intended as an interpretation, but an attempt to get into the chapter.  I was hoping for an in-depth study of the scripture with corrections to any misreading I disclosed.  I appreciate Lianeís efforts to do so.

Youíve asked me a number of questions and I have endeavored to find the Bibleís answers.  If you think I identified the wrong texts, I would be grateful to hear your reasons.

But of course you donít have to. This is your forum and your thread. Youíre the boss. Iím just an over-enthusiastic guest.  :)

You have mentioned how important it is to study the daily before the annual.  Is there any particular passage of scripture that describes the daily that you are interested in studying together?

--Harry


Liane H

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #89 on: April 09, 2001, 08:58:00 AM »
Hi Harry:

I am home. It was quite an experience to say the least. One thing I am grateful for in California is that anyplace you eat, there is no smoking.

I almost died in Nevada. Earthquake and all I was glad to be back on California soil. We got snow the whole time we were in Nevada and I did like that. I can get to snow from where I live, it is about half hour drive. I  have gotten spoiled in Southern California.

As for your enthusiasm, don't every let go of it. These are exciting things to learn.

The one idea that I would like you to do, if you wish, is to look at each peace of furniture and see how it is applied to Jesus. Example is the showbread. Jesus calls himself the bread of life.

Knowing the furnishings of the sanctuary gives you a much better understanding of the daily and the day of atonement. Unless Richard wishes to start someplace else, I think it is a good place to start.

I have not eaten, so I am going to get off and come back later. I may get on before you do, but I am delighted at your desire to learn and have communication on this subject, as the whole sanctuary understanding is one that I enjoy a great deal.

Liane  

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Harry Elliott

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #90 on: April 09, 2001, 03:21:00 PM »
Hi Liane--

It's amazing how great minds......

Just about an hour ago my wife and I were eating in a salad bar restaurant with about a hundred other Silicon Valley denizens, and I remarked about how miraculous it was to be among all those people without being exposed to a single cigarette.

I like to really get into scriptural passages on an objective basis.  The analogy you mention is a good one, but I like to ask  questions like was it is the one Jesus had in mind.  That is, was He plainly speaking in terms of sanctuary imagery when He said that.?  Please remind me of the specific text.

--Harry

--Harry


Richard Myers

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #91 on: April 09, 2001, 09:52:00 PM »
Welcome back, Sister Liane.  :)

Brother Harry, I think Sister Liane has a good suggestion. We have already given a simple overview of the sanctuary services and it would be good to look at the articles of furniture that the tabernacle and the courtyard contained. I appreciate the lessons, for they are rather easy to understand when one loves Jesus. The Holy Spirit will bless our study together.

I would like to begin in the courtyard if we can, then move into the Holy Place. The courtyard had two main objects, the brazen altar and the laver. What can we say about these two objects?

Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Harry Elliott

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #92 on: April 09, 2001, 10:11:00 PM »
Hi Richard--

Which descripion of the courtyard do you want to begin with?  

--Harry


Gary K

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #93 on: April 09, 2001, 11:34:00 PM »
Hi All,

I just surfed by tonight. I hadn't seen this thread before and have a small sidelight that might prove interesting about the altar in the courtyard.

Leviticus 1:13 But he shall wash the inwards and the legs with water: and the priest shall bring it all, and burn it upon the altar: it is a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.

When I read this I began to wonder about why God said put the inwards and the legs on the altar.  Here is what I found. It was new to me, hope it isn't old hat to you. I found this to be very revealing about the sanctuary service and how the Israelites must have envisioned this sacrificial system.

Inwards from the Hebrew: Copied from "The Blue Letter Bible."

07130 qereb {keh'-reb}  

from 07126; TWOT - 2066a; n m

AV - among 76, midst 73, within 24, inwards 22, in 6, misc 26; 227

1) midst, among, inner part, middle
1a) inward part
1a1) physical sense
1a2) as seat of thought and emotion
1a3) as faculty of thought and emotion
1b) in the midst, among, from among (of a number of persons)
1c) entrails (of sacrificial animals)

Notice that the inward part was both a physical sense and symbolic of the seat of the thoughts and emotions.  Symbolically the sacrifice was a way of saying that they laid their very being on the altar. They were offering their very thoughts and emotions to God upon the altar.

Legs:

03767 kara` {kaw-raw'}  

from 03766; TWOT - 1044a; n f

AV - leg 9; 9

1) leg

The Hebrew word was actually leg, but it has its roots in another word that also has very interesting symbolism attached to it.

03766 kara` {kaw-rah'}  

a primitive root; TWOT - 1044; v

AV - bow 14, ...down 12, fell 2, subdued 2, brought low 1, couched 1,
feeble 1, kneeling 1, very 1; 36

1) to bend, kneel, bow, bow down, sink down to one's knees, kneel
down to rest (of animals), kneel in reverence
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to bow
1a2) to bow down, crouch
1a3) to bow down over
1a4) to tilt, lean
1b) (Hiphil) to cause to bow

The legs were symbolic of kneeling in reverence.  So the Isrealites were in symbolism kneeling reverently before God while offering Him their very innermost parts, the seat of the thoughts and emotions. This symbolism was most likely very clear to them. These thoughts were tied directly to the words and substances used in the sacrificial system in their everyday language.

Now, the word translated as burnt offering also has an interesting second interpretation:

05930 `olah {o-law'} or `owlah {o-law'}  

f act part of 05927; TWOT - 1624c,1624d; n f

AV - burnt offering 264, burnt sacrifice 21, ascent 1, go up 1; 289

1) whole burnt offering
2) ascent, stairway, steps

It was an ascent, a stairwat, steps. To where? To God.  This had to create a very vivid picture in the hearts and minds of all who brought a sacrifice for sin.

I hope you found a blessing in this. I sure did.

Gary  


Harry Elliott

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #94 on: April 10, 2001, 07:45:00 AM »
Hi Gary--

Nice piece of work. I think everything you said is valid. It tells us a lot about you, and itís all good!

I have to point out an irony I noticed a couple of days ago, while doing a study instigated by Richard.  Sometimes the legs and innards are categorized with the animals dung. Ugh!  (Lev 4:11) But then, so was itís head.

If you see any ironies in my observations on the various services (above), please return the favor.  :)

--Harry
 


Liane H

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2001, 09:42:00 AM »
Hi Harry:

If I understand what you are asking, I would like to start there from a quote above that you made and make it a starting point   for myself. What has begun is very good, but I want to go back one step further before we get into the sanctuary discription itself.

You said: "He (Jesus) plainly speaking in terms of sanctuary imagery when He said that."

We must begin with Exodus 3:14: "And God said unto Moses, 'I AM that I AM': then said, thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,  I AM hath sent me unto you."

In John 8:58: "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was,  I AM."

So from this, we understand that it was Jesus, who called himself to Moses, I AM. So the discription of every furniture, every part of the tabernacle was given by Jesus to Moses. This is important as Jesus is telling Moses and the children of Israel much about himself and what he would be doing for us.

The second thing that I want to bring up, which is the heart of our understanding of what Jesus is presently doing now as the High Priest. We must understand, where did the ideas of discription of this tabernacle come from with Jesus.

Ex 25: 8 and 9: "And let them make me a Sanctuary that I may dwell among you. According to all that I show thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it."

Heb 8:5 "Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle."

From this we now begin to understand that it was Jesus who showed Moses the form in which this tabernacle was to take. It was a pattern of the one in heaven. The one made by hands is different somewhat from the one on earth in that some of the materials, that made up some parts of the curtains or walls of the sanctuary was skin of animals. But the embroidery of the angels inside of the Most Holy Place is correct in that in the heavenly, Most Holy Place angels are there about.

John, in revelation saw in vision the candlesticks, the ark of the testiment, etc. in heaven. This becomes important and clear as we learn more about the sanctuary and the Sanctuary Message given to us through the Bible studies of our pioneers and the visions of Ellen G. White.

The study and understanding of the Sanctuary is the center of our very message as doctrine and of Jesus. This message sets us apart from any other denomination as being given the gift of prophecy by Jesus to us.

The key verses in Revelation that is the core of the reason that we exist is:

Rev 12:17 "And the dragon was wroth with the women and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God and the TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST."

Rev; 19:10 "...for the TESTIMONY OF JESUS is the Spirit of Prophecy."

From this starting point I will also share some of what I see of the sanctuary itself. Richard and Gary have given you some very good things so far.

I enjoy this opportunity to share with you and please keep your questions coming.

Liane

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Harry Elliott

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #96 on: April 10, 2001, 09:16:00 PM »
That's probably the most cogent summary of our traditional position that I've ever seen.  :)


Richard Myers

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #97 on: April 11, 2001, 07:12:00 AM »
Thanks, Brother Gary!  :)  It is good to have your input. There is so much to study.

Brother Harry, I think the altar of burnt offering and the laver would be good, But if you like we can go back out to the door of the courtyard and the curtains.  :)

And of course the lamb and the sinner are the focal points.  :)

Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Harry Elliott

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #98 on: April 11, 2001, 05:30:00 PM »
Ah, the lamb and the sinner.  That's what I'm interested in. What does the sinner do with the lamb, and what does the priest do with the lamb--and its body parts and blood?  :)

--Harry


Liane H

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Re: The Hebrew Sanctuary
« Reply #99 on: April 14, 2001, 04:00:00 PM »
Hi Harry:

Finally getting grounded since I have been back from my vacation trip. Interesting experience to say the least.

In light of your last post I wish to share some initial background for the Sinner, Blood and the Lamb. I am sure this is all very basic and known by you, but I wanted a starting point for these three words before we got deeper. Then I hope that Richard as well as others and myself will share the deeper aspects of the daily service.

Lamb:

Some history of the Lamb and the application as the sacrifice.

Genesis 4:2

"And she again bare His brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep."

Verse 4: "And Abel, He also brought the FIRSLINGS of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering."

What was it that Abel understood that Cain did not?  Was it the understanding of the sacrifice that would be necessary for the salvation of mankind.

Passover

Exodus 12:5 "Your lamb shall be without BLEMISH, a MALE of the FIRST year. These bolded words have great significance in reference to Jesus and the sacrifice he would make thousand of years later. The choice of an animal had, whether it was, a lamb, a bird, or whatever the family could afford to bring, had to meet these three tests for it to be used as a sacrifice for sin."

Jesus

Isaiah 53:7 "He was oppressed, and He was afflicted, yet He opened not his mouth. He is brought as a LAMB to the slaughter, and as a SHEEP before her shearers, is dumb, so He openeth not his mouth."

John 1:29 "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the LAMB of God, which taketh away the SIN of the world."

John the Baptist understood also as did Abel the principle of the LAMB and the understanding of the sacrifice that was yet to come. The word LAMB was chosen by John for that reason.

Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship Him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the LAMB slain from the foundation of the world."

Two points here. Again the choice of the word LAMB and that this sacrifice was not for those that accept Jesus, but for the whole world, even those that reject this sacrifice will acknowledge that this LAMB slain from the foundation of the world, those names that ARE NOT written in the book of life will one day also worship Him. Not in the reverence as the saved will, but none the less will acknowledge that He did die for them.

1 Peter 1:19 "But with the precious BLOOD of Christ, as of a LAMB without BLEMISH and without spot.

Who verily was forordained before the foundation of the world"

We see that the plan of salvation, the type and antitype would be met in the symbols that would be passed onto each generation. FIRSTBORN, WITHOUT BLEMISH, and the concept of BLOOD.

Back to the Old Testament

Genesis 9:4 "But flesh with the life thereof which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat."

Blood is the life source for every living thing. It is in the BLOOD that Jesus would shed for our sins that would redeem us.

Hebrews 9:22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with BLOOD: and without the shedding of blood is no remission of sins."

1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the BLOOD of Jesus Christ His son cleanseth us from all sin."

Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith, in His BLOOD, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forebearing of God."

It is through the experience of the literal children of Israel that partook of the daily sacrifice, that we of spiritual Israel see Jesus so clearly now. Type meets Antitype.   The Bible is not really two different books, but one whole book of the story of Jesus. It is out of these books fused together we come to understand the character of God. The cross stand as the centerpiece of Christ and His righteousness and the Love that came forth from the Godhead in their dealings with sinful mankind. It is with the BLOOD of Jesus Christ that we have and are given eternal life.

What imagery Jesus has given us through the daily Sanctuary service that we will come to understand each and every thing that Jesus did to help us understand the price, the hope and the grace that gives our faith meaning today.

Liane

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.