Author Topic: Difficult Biblical Questions  (Read 21226 times)

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Ed Sutton

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #80 on: December 08, 2012, 08:38:58 PM »
Is Jesus referencing a Psalm ( Psalm 82) that by it's content seems to be divine sarcasm speaking to an unjust people group of rulers trying to interpose between others and the True God, through the pompous position of their own arrogant making ? A Psalm that rebukes them.

Contrasting the claim their behavior makes, and His works, life, prophecies of Him, and His speaking is making .  Would this not create enough controversy to spread all over Judiasm rapidly ?    Would this move honest Jews to re-search the Messianic prophecies ?
Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}

Ed Sutton

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #81 on: December 08, 2012, 09:50:58 PM »
Quote
     John the Baptist met sin with open rebuke in men of humble occupation and in men of high degree. He declared the truth to kings and nobles, whether they would hear or reject it. He spoke personally and pointedly. He reproved the Pharisees of the Sanhedrim because their religion consisted in forms and not in righteousness of pure, willing obedience. . . . He spoke to Herod in regard to his marriage with Herodias, saying, It is not lawful for thee to have her. He spoke to him of a future retribution, when God would judge every man according to his works. . . .  {1NL 102.3}
 
                                 What Shall We Do?

     "Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?" Did he say, Leave your toll and custom houses? No, he said to them, "Exact no more than that which is appointed you." If they were taxgatherers still, they could hold just weights and balances of truth in their hands. They could reform in those things that savored of dishonesty and oppression.  {1NL 102.4} 

     "And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.". . .  {1NL 102.5}
 
                           The Sword of Truth at Work

     Christ also spoke pointedly to every class of men. He reproved those who dominated over their fellow men, those whose passions and prejudices caused many to err and compelled many to blaspheme God. The sword of truth was blunted by apologies and suppositions; but Christ called things by their right names. The ax was laid to the root of the tree. He showed that all the religious forms of worship could not save the Jewish nation, because they did not behold and receive by faith the Lamb of God as their Saviour.{1NL 102.6} 

     Just such a work and message as that of John will be carried on in these last days. The Lord has been giving messages to His people, through the instruments He has chosen, and He would have all take heed to the admonitions and warnings He sends.  {1NL 103.1}           
Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}

Ed Sutton

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #82 on: December 08, 2012, 10:05:53 PM »
Psalm 82
1 ¶  « A Psalm of Asaph. » God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
How long will ye judge unjustly***, and accept the persons of the wicked***? Selah.
3  Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4  Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 ¶  I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
But ye shall die like men***, and fall like one of the princes. * *
8  Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

***bad blind gods,  blind guides, being judged by one superior to them

Is Jesus referencing a Psalm ( Psalm 82) that by it's content seems to be divine sarcasm speaking to an unjust people group of rulers trying to interpose between others and the True God, through the pompous position of their own arrogant making ? A Psalm that rebukes them.

* * Ezekiel 28:2-19  There was another prince setting himself up as god and commanding submission of mind, heart, conscience – were  the Jews following WHOM , Christ or the false god of Ezekiel 28 & their current false gods human rulers ?

They acted as gods over the people telling them to submit opinions, ideas, conscience to them as though they were gods.

Matthew 22:21-25 
21And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly:
22  Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?
23  But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?
24  Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar’s.
25  And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar’s, and unto God the things which be God’s.

Contrasting the claim their behavior makes, and His works, life, prophecies of Him, and His speaking is making .  Would this not create enough controversy to spread all over Judiasm rapidly ?    Would this move honest Jews to re-search the Messianic prophecies ?
Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}

Mimi

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #83 on: May 03, 2014, 01:18:46 PM »
I have a question to ask our Bible students on 1Thessalonians 3:7-13. The point of the question appears in verse 13 in bold. It was preached in a sermon today inferring we will keep on sinning until Jesus comes but until then, He will continue to forgive us. I had trouble with that.

What does it mean to you?

1Th 3:7  Therefore, brethren, we were comforted over you in all our affliction and distress by your faith:
1Th 3:8  For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.
1Th 3:9  For what thanks can we render to God again for you, for all the joy wherewith we joy for your sakes before our God;
1Th 3:10  Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?
1Th 3:11  Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
1Th 3:12  And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
1Th 3:13  To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Weymouth translates it this way: 1Th 3:13  Thus He will build up your characters, so that you will be faultlessly holy in the presence of our God and Father at the Coming of our Lord Jesus with all His holy ones.

Is "at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" a timing statement? When are we established unblameable in holiness, only at the coming of our Lord Jesus? Can our hearts be established in unblameable holiness now or is it only "at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ"? What is Paul saying?
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Ed Sutton

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #84 on: May 03, 2014, 04:10:17 PM »
The time frame of fixing good and bad characters is shown to occur as Christ removes the High Priest's garments and throwing down the censer of incense used in mediation. As He is putting on the blood soaked robes of King of Kings garments of vengeance covered with the blood of His enemies.  This is the end of redeeming grace for sinners and the start of the eternal rest of grace for saints, their characters stay pure forever. The second Coming > I come quickly (slightly still future but quickly becoming present tense at that time)

Revelation 22:
7  Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
8  And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9  Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
10  And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11  He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15  For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

("let him be holy still" = 84 hits )

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When the work of the investigative Judgment closes, the destiny of all will have been decided for life or death. Probation is ended a short time before the appearing of the Lord in the clouds of heaven. Christ in the Revelation, looking forward to that time, declares: “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still; and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still; and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.” [Revelation 22:11, 12.]  {GC88 491.1} {GC88 613.2}{GC 490.2}  {GC 613.2-614.1}  PP 201 (1890).  {LDE 253.1-.2}   


Quote
    When Jesus rises up in the most holy place, lays off His mediatorial robes, and clothes Himself with the garments of vengeance, the mandate will go forth: "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: . . . and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with me" (Revelation 22:11, 12).--Testimonies, vol. 8, pp. 313-315.  {RC 312.8} 

How is <4741> used in the text and surrounding context and place in plan of salvation ?

Luke 9:51  And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set <4741> his face to go to Jerusalem,

Luke 16:26  And beside all this, between us and you there is <4741> a great gulf fixed <4741>: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Luke 22:32  But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen <4741> thy brethren.

Romans 1:11  For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established <4741>;

Romans 16:25  Now to him that is of power to stablish <4741> you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1 Thessalonians 3:2  And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish <4741> you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

1 Thessalonians 3:13  To the end he may stablish <4741> your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

2 Thessalonians 2:17  Comfort your hearts, and stablish <4741> you in every good word and work.

2 Thessalonians 3:3  But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish <4741> you, and keep you from evil.

James 5:8  Be ye also patient; stablish <4741> your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

1 Peter 5:10  But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish <4741>, strengthen, settle you.

2 Peter 1:12  Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established <4741> in the present truth.

Revelation 3:2  Be watchful, and strengthen <4741> the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

4741. στηρι/ζω sterizo stay-rid’-zo; from a presumed derivative of 2476 (like 4731); to set fast, i.e. (literally) to turn resolutely in a certain direction, or (figuratively) to confirm: —  fix, (e-)stablish, stedfastly set, strengthen.

1st Thess 3:
12  And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
13  To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Corinthians 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Everything corruptible is now incorruptible, it can no longer be corrupted.

Also look up ( seal* satan*  power = 46  hits)

The character up till that time is fixed in that condition eternally ( if redeemed ) (for slightly over 1000 yrs if lost - ashes do not think or feel therefore have no character), at the time Jesus makes the mandate ..... "holy still".... no longer High Priest, now King of Kings in process of the leaving Heaven at the Head of His entire holy angelic army.
Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}

Richard Myers

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #85 on: May 03, 2014, 04:13:32 PM »
Amen, Ed. Character does not change when Jesus comes.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Ed Sutton

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #86 on: May 03, 2014, 04:47:32 PM »
Quote
    I saw Satan would work more powerfully now than ever he has before. He knows that his time is short and that the sealing of the saints will place them beyond his power; he will now work in every way that he can and will try his every insinuation to get the saints off from their guard and get them asleep on the present truth or doubting it, so as to prevent their being sealed with the seal of the living God.--Ms 7, 1850, pp. 2, 3. ("A Vision God Gave Me at Brother Harris', August 24, 1850.) {8MR 220.5}
 
    The angel said, "Some tried too hard to believe. Faith is so simple. Ye look above it. Satan has deceived some and got them to looking at their own unworthiness." I saw they must look away from self to the worthiness of Jesus, and throw themselves, just as they are, needy, dependent, upon His mercy, and draw by faith, strength and nourishment from Him.--Ms 8, 1850, p 1. ("Vision of August 24, 1850.")  {8MR 221.1} 
Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}

Mimi

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #87 on: May 03, 2014, 04:49:39 PM »
That is correct, Richard. It is a teaching we combat almost every Sabbath, yet it remains an error among us.

Ed, Amen! Thank you for the "line upon line," setting the verse into proper context. Today is the day to form character as it becomes fixed through sanctification and cannot be moved.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Ed Sutton

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #88 on: May 04, 2014, 01:26:55 AM »
quoting Richard
Quote
Character does not change when Jesus comes.

quoting Mimi
Quote
That is correct, Richard. It is a teaching we combat almost every Sabbath, yet it remains an error among us.

The reason for that is where they choose to stand in relationship to the issues in QOD.  It is dawning upon me that QOD is a screen and dividing line and strong delusions mixed in with truth.
One one side - those who are only satisfied with what Majority Text ( received Text)Scripture and SOP say and explain in tandem.

One the other side - anything goes no absolutes no anchors

QOD gives each side a place to choose to stand in relationship to what it says and what it should say and should never have said at all.

Fundamental global views of Salvation and the Great Controversy Saga redefine how folks believe and follow and seek to promulgate those views, so every Sabbath the leaves are picked off by the faithful during combatting the errors, but the roots of modern sadduceeism libertarianism antinomianism remain so new leaves quickly grow back.   

Thus icebergs of darkness chill the assemblies and quench God's Spirit and discourage those trying to spiritually awaken and spiritually gether warmth from above, courage from Christ, loyalty that successfully paddles upstream; THAT IS THEIR MISSION AND PURPOSE.

Titus 3:10  A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11  Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Ask God how to allow the icebergs their blissful spot in the freezer, and ask Jesus how and when to move forward to reach out to those who have never heard and thus never rejected.

Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}

Mimi

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #89 on: May 04, 2014, 07:38:08 AM »
Quote
Fundamental global views of Salvation and the Great Controversy Saga redefine how folks believe and follow and seek to promulgate those views, so every Sabbath the leaves are picked off by the faithful during combatting the errors, but the roots of modern sadduceeism libertarianism antinomianism remain so new leaves quickly grow back.   

Thus icebergs of darkness chill the assemblies and quench God's Spirit and discourage those trying to spiritually awaken and spiritually gether warmth from above, courage from Christ, loyalty that successfully paddles upstream; THAT IS THEIR MISSION AND PURPOSE.

Amen. You approach this as to get to the very root of the problem. I like your angle. It is not one many consider when pondering such things. Error that lies so close to truth is very difficult to correct and thus overcome because the root of error has been allowed to grow deep. It is not something as simple to combat as "from Sabbath to Sunday" arguments. That one is easy.

As a result of the error we are addressing on this issue, which is taught far and wide, the question most in the pew have is: What does Christ do in me and when does He do it? "Today is the day of salvation" remains on the sideline but never taken into the mind as something to soberly consider with all of its ramifications tied up in the true gospel message. So many are left at the point of being justified and go no further in grace that thoroughly transforms the mind, so they end up in a cyclical Romans 7 condition because they are void of power. But before that, they are void of knowledge to correct their insecurities because they are not students of the Word to see if these things are so, and they wonder why they are unsuccessful in overcoming sin this very day, building character that is a direct reflection of the Savior. Because of this, many are going to wait for the latter rain to do a work in them but they will be sorely disappointed because they missed daily opportunities. I could go on but at this point, I am preaching to the choir. 

This is such a huge problem that again it reinforces the reality of our condition described in detail in Revelation 3:14-22. We have a work to do among the nations but I dare say we have an even larger work to do in the churches.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Ed Sutton

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #90 on: May 12, 2014, 06:23:13 AM »
Quoting Mimi

Quote
As a result of the error we are addressing on this issue, which is taught far and wide, the question most in the pew have is: What does Christ do in me and when does He do it?

Christ implants Himself into the believer, and put’s the believer in the cleft of the Rock, - His riven side.  If that is not sought for, and cooperated with, -  Christ never forces it, and it remains undone.


Accomplished by daily and throughout each day - (coming to Christ-praying frequently daily , surrendering self, forgiving all others, crucifying self, lifting one's own cross, having already put away one's own idols, making no provision for the flesh, denying feelings and desires that deny Christ, taking Christ's yoke of service, following Christ, asking His help, claiming His SOP & Scripture - words, putting them to use.)

John 15:4  Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
John 15:7  If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


John 17:23  I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
John 17:26  And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

John 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


1 John 4:8  He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Ephesians 3:19  And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.


1 John 2:5  But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.


1 John 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.


1 John 4:16  And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1 John 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

What is love > look at Peter’s ladder > look at each component part - start with like precious faith, > step by step till (charity) agape <26>

What does love do ? > Look at 1st Corinthians 13:
28  And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29  Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30  Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31  But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1 ¶  Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3  And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 ¶  Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5  Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6  Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;( <26> rejoices in God & God’s doctrines )
7  Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 ¶ Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, ]b]they shall fail[/b]; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9  For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11  When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13  And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.<26>

1. Union with Father God, and Christ, and the Holy Ghost on their stated terms in the Bible, with heart reception engrafting of Their life and offered character from above, and active human union with them cheerfully.    John 3:3 -21;  1st Peter 1:13-2:8; John Chapters 14 and 15 and 16 and 17; 1st Corinthians Chapter 13; Ephesians 3:8-21; 1 John 3:10, 14; 1 John 4:8,20 .

2 .  The understanding, adorning and heartfelt obedience, engrafting of all the doctrines of the Bible and the testifying of Jesus Christ.   Matthew 13:3-23; Mark 4:2-20; Luke 8:4-15; James 1:17-27; 1st  Timothy 4:13 - 16; 2nd John 1:9-11; Matthew 28:18-20; Revelation 14:7 ( Deuteronomy 10: 12,13,16, 20; Deuteronomy 30:2,6 onward - verse 16-19.

3. Human relationships on God’s terms.   Matthew Chapters 5 - 7 The Sermon on the Mount, and Paul’s writings .


Quote
“God imparts His blessing to us, that we may give to others. And as long as we yield ourselves as the channels through which His love can flow, He will keep the channels supplied. When you ask God for your daily bread, He looks right into your heart to see if you will impart the same to others, more needy than yourself. When you pray, "God be merciful to me a sinner," He watches to see if you will manifest compassion to those with whom you associate. This is the evidence of our connection with God,--that we are merciful even as our Father who is in heaven is merciful. If we are His, we shall do with a cheerful heart just what He tells us to do, however inconvenient, however contrary it may be to our own feelings. . . .  {CS 164.3} 

 “Wherever there is union with Christ there is love. Whatever other fruits we may bear, if love be missing, they profit nothing. Love to God and our neighbor is the very essence of our religion. No one can love Christ and not love His children. When we are united to Christ, we have the mind of Christ. Purity and love shine forth in the character, meekness and truth control the life. The very expression of the countenance is changed. Christ abiding in the soul exerts a transforming power, and the outward aspect bears witness to the peace and joy that reign within. We drink in the love of Christ, as the branch draws nourishment from the vine. If we are grafted in Christ, if fiber by fiber we have been united with the Living Vine, we shall give evidence of the fact by bearing rich clusters of living fruit. If we are connected with the Light, we shall be channels of light, and in our words and works we shall reflect light to the world. Those who are truly Christians are bound with the chain of love which links earth to heaven, which binds finite man to the infinite God. The light that shines in the face of Jesus Christ shines in the hearts of His followers, to the glory of God.  {1SM 337.2} 


“The qualities which it is essential for all to possess are those which marked the completeness of Christ's character--His love, His patience, His unselfishness, and His goodness. These attributes are gained by doing kindly actions with a kindly heart. But Christ's requirements are not met by His people today. A strange deception is upon the people of God. Selfishness prevents the union which should exist. True love for one another is rare in our churches. This lack of love reveals most certainly that the members do not love God as they suppose they do. They give evidence that they need to be sanctified.  {21MR 411.2} 

     It is the greatest and most fatal deception to suppose that a man can have faith unto life eternal without possessing Christlike love for his brethren. He who loves God and his neighbor is filled with light and love. God is in him and all around him. Christians love those around them as precious souls for whom Christ has died. There is no such thing as a loveless Christian, for "God is love." [1 John 2:3-5, 8-11; John 13:34, 35; 15:12, quoted.]--Ms 133, 1899.  {21MR 411.3}
("vital transfusion" = 3 hits )

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The Lord Jesus loves His people, and when they put their trust in Him, depending wholly upon Him, He strengthens them. He will live through them, giving them the inspiration of His sanctifying Spirit, imparting to the soul a vital transfusion of Himself. He acts through their faculties and causes them to choose His will and to act out His character. With the apostle Paul they then may say, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" (Galatians 2:20). . . .  {TMK 78.4} 

 
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When we reflect Christ's image, we shall love one another as He has loved us. We shall not love as we love our neighbor, but as Christ loved us. It is an advance to love as Christ loved. This is the perfection of Christian character. When we can say, My will is wholly submerged in God's will, then peace and rest come in.  {7MR 389.1} 

     We must have that love, else we cannot be perfect before God. We may be active, we may do much work, but unless we love as Christ loved, our candlestick will be removed out of its place. . . .  {7MR 389.2} 

     We have little enough of Christ's character. We need it all through our ranks, We must reveal that love which dwelt in Jesus. Then we shall keep the commandment [that we love one another], which not one in a hundred of those who claim to believe the truth for this time are keeping. . . .  {7MR 389.3} 

     Perfect unity must exist in a diversity of gifts. A union of all the gifts is essential. The one great commandment Christ has given is a new commandment. It reaches beyond loving our neighbor as we love ourselves. We are to love one another, "as I," said Christ, "have loved you." This experience must be obtained by every child of God. All must blend together in the work, thus making the work not onesided, but a complete whole.--Letter 121, 1898, pp. 6-8. (To S. N. Haskell and wife, December 12, 1898.)  {7MR 389.4} 

 
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Oh, what can I say to open blind eyes, to enlighten the spiritual understanding! Sin must be crucified. A complete moral renovation must be wrought by the Holy Spirit. We must have the love of God, with living, abiding faith. This is the gold tried in the fire. We can obtain it only of Christ. Every sincere and earnest seeker will become a partaker of the divine nature. His soul will be filled with intense longing to know the fullness of that love which passes knowledge; as he advances in the divine life he will be better able to grasp the elevated, ennobling truths of the word of God, until by beholding he becomes changed and is enabled to reflect the likeness of his Redeemer.   {5T 105.2} 

My 2 cents RE what I have read in the matter.   Christ's timetable is on His schedule, faith is doing it while the feelings / desire still object / praying while doing & following.
Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}

colporteur

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #91 on: May 12, 2014, 06:37:04 AM »

 What comes to mind when look at this is those who say " If I'm lucky enough to make it."  I think they realize that lucky has not a thing to do with it. Knowing a little of who they are I believe they are hoping that God is of such a nature so as to let them in anyway.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

Richard Myers

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #92 on: May 13, 2014, 07:04:02 PM »
Which brings to mind the wedding feast and the garments provided. An inspection was made. What was it that was inspected? The truth is simple, but rejected by most.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

JimB

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #93 on: March 07, 2015, 10:18:06 AM »
I'm hoping that my "difficult" Bible question will not be difficult for others here and can help understand better what is being said.

Rom_5:10  For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

How is it that someone can be reconciled while still enemies? In my mind to be reconciled means that a relationship has been restored to it's proper place. God may love the sinner while sinning but this doesn't mean the sinner has been reconciled. At least in my understanding that it is. I'm thinking my difficulty in my understanding of the word reconciled means in the context of this verse so I'm interested in how others understand it.

It does not surprise me Mrs. White agrees with Paul in the reference below but it did not help to clear up my difficulty here.

"We were reconciled to God by the death of his Son." Christ reconciled the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them. O, what compassion and love are here revealed! How is humanity exalted through the merits of Christ! His sacrifice was ample and complete. The Holy One died instead of the unholy. He clothed himself in our filthy garments, that we might wear the spotless robe of his righteousness, which was woven in the loom of heaven. He paid the whole debt for all who would believe in him as their personal Saviour. His blood cleanseth from all sin and purifieth from all unrighteousness. In him, through him alone, we have forgiveness of sins. Through faith in his blood we have justification in the sight of God.  {ST, May 30, 1895 par. 4}
By communion with God in nature, the mind is uplifted, and the heart finds rest.  {DA 291.1}

Ed Sutton

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #94 on: March 07, 2015, 12:36:05 PM »
( “were reconciled” = 6 hits )
Once Adam & Eve sinned - God is now legally their enemy:

Christ’s death removes that legal standing of the human species through the preservation of His intercession: as long as He is High Priest.  Once being sealed with God's seal, they remain His forever.  Then Jesus can become King of Kings and still retain them, even though He ceases to be High Priest due to completion of that facet of His mission.

That does not mean every human individual has ceased being, in their mind, themselves, an adversary toward God.

But after the “much more” moving to the “being reconciled” now they themselves as an individual are born again and are personally reconciled to God. Now they in partnership with Jesus, now they willingly receive His life into themselves and He imputes and imparts His “vital transfusion of Himself” into and upon them.

( “were reconciled” = 6 hits )
1.    {OFC 33.5 - 34.1} ( read the context )
2.    {SD 229.1-.4}  ( read the context )
3.      {RH, September 1, 1891 par. 3} ( read the context )
4.    {ST, July 21, 1898 par. 11}  ( read the context )
5.   {ST, June 28, 1899 par. 9 - 12}  ( read the context )
6.    {YI, December 13, 1894 par. 1-5} ( read the context )

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Adam did not consider all the consequences resulting from his disobedience. He did not set his mind in defiance against God, nor did he in any way speak against God; he simply went directly contrary to His express command. And how many today are doing the very same thing, and their guilt is of much greater magnitude because they have the example of Adam’s experience in disobedience, and its terrible results, to warn them of the consequences of transgressing the law of God. So they have clear light upon this subject, and no excuse for their guilt in denying and disobeying God’s authority. . . . {CTr 25.2}
Adam yielded to temptation, and as we have the matter of sin and its consequences laid so distinctly before us, we can read from cause to effect and see the greatness of the act is not that which constitutes sin; but the disobedience of God’s expressed will, which is a virtual denial of God, refusing the laws of His government. . . . {CTr 25.3}
The law of self is erected, human will is made supreme, and when the high and holy will of God is presented to be obeyed, respected, and honored, the human will wants its own way, to do its own promptings, and there is a controversy between the human agent and the Divine. {CTr 25.4}
The fall of our first parents broke the golden chain of implicit obedience of the human will to the Divine. Obedience has no longer been deemed an absolute necessity. The human agents follow their own imaginations, which the Lord said of the inhabitants of the old world were evil and that continually. ...... . . . {CTr 25.5}

The born again person is surrendered in mind & heart to God, they themselves no longer are at enmity toward God, they have become reconciled inside themselves toward God, even as Christ caused reconciliation in Heaven.

Christ death pays the debt causing reconciliation in Heaven, and His perfect human life is imputed and imparted to and in the born again person.  Imputed means giving as a gift to the recipient, what could never be earned or created by the recipient, and imparted means offered and implanted as the receiver is willing and able to receive as part of the partnership terms.
 
     

Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 - The divinity of Christ is acknowledged in the unity of the children of God.  {11MR 266.2}

Richard Myers

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #95 on: March 08, 2015, 11:02:12 PM »
Amen, Ed.

Jim, let me see if I can present this verse in an easy manner.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son"
When we were in the world walking after the flesh, disobedient to the law of God, we beheld the love of God revealed in the infinite Sacrifice of His Son while we were yet sinners. This truth caused our heart to break. We fall at the foot of the cross and die to self and are filled with His Spirit, thus becoming partakers of His divine nature. This is salvation, this is eternal life. What brought about this repentance? "The goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance...for godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation " Romans 2:4, 2 Cor. 7:10. Godly sorrow for what our sins did to our Savior.  We see that we are saved by His death for us while we were yet sinners. It is called grace, unmerited favor for us while we were dead in trespasses and sins. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Ephesians 2:8.

"much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

His suffering and death did  in fact pay the price for our sins. But, how is it that we shall be fit for heaven? Is it not a matter of transformation of character? How is it that this transformation shall take place? It is true that when  we die to self, we have life, but going on beyond our title to heaven, we must understand that God wants more from us than just accepting the free gift. The thief on the cross did not have much time to grow in grace. He did, though grow in grace while he witnessed the life of Christ before He died. What did he learn from Christ as he witnessed the "life" of Christ? Did it better fit him for his place in heaven? Was it good enough to be converted and then allow his hold on Christ to be broken? Or was there a need for him to grown in Christ while he yet hung on the cross? Did temptations come to the thief as he lived on the cross? Was there temptation to unbelief when Christ died? The disciples were full of unbelief. But, how about the thief?

And, how about us? Today, I ministered to a street preacher who did not know he  could lose his salvation. He believed and taught that a man could sin and retain his salvation. How is it that you and I can retain our salvation after we die to self? Paul said that "I die daily".  How do we die daily?  How are we transformed in character?  Jesus told Nicodemus how it is that we are to be saved, continually saved. How are we continually saved and transformed in character?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2015, 11:54:35 AM »
Jesus said "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever." John 6:53-58. So, we see that it is the life and teachings of Jesus that when we feed upon it, we are able to receive the grace into our hearts.

Do we need help to do this?  We all have come to see what great sinners we are. If you have missed this, read Romans seven. In our flesh is no good thing. Jesus said He would send the Comforter, the third person of the godhead to lead us into truth. What is it that the Holy Spirit wants us to know? Is it not the grace of God?  What is the result of beholding the love (grace) of God? Is it not salvation?  Jesus tells us that He is drawing all men unto Himself. Is that the dead Jesus, or the living Jesus?

Professing Christians lose much by not understanding that Jesus lives today to save us. He is not isolated in heaven just watching what goes on in this Earth. No, He is a living Savior working for our salvation. Where in heaven is Jesus and what is He doing? Is He not a mediator? What is the office of a mediator?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

JimB

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #97 on: March 11, 2015, 07:30:59 PM »

"much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

His suffering and death did  in fact pay the price for our sins.

Richard, you posted more but I'm gonna be a little singular here and focus in on the reconciled part because that is what didn't make sense to me. Are you saying that the "being reconciled" in this verse is strictly speaking to the fact that Christ paid our penalty? That makes sense to me but if that is the case I wish a different word was used. Maybe reconciled meant something different in the KVJ language at the time. Yes, Christ paid the price for us but that doesn't mean the relationship has been fully reconciled. The fact that Christ paid the price to mend the bridge so the sinner can return to Christ doesn't mean the sinner will choose to make use of the repaired bridge.
By communion with God in nature, the mind is uplifted, and the heart finds rest.  {DA 291.1}

Richard Myers

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #98 on: March 11, 2015, 10:45:11 PM »
I see where it can be confusing. Communications is hard at the best of times.

Are you saying that the "being reconciled" in this verse is strictly speaking to the fact that Christ paid our penalty?

No. Being reconciled means being re-united with God. As I understand the verse, it is being used in a general sense. It could be understood to mean that being reconciled did not result in being saved. But, that is not the case.  We know that when one is reconciled, he is in a saved condition. Therefore, we have two statements referring to being saved. The first: "when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son."  When we were reconciled we were saved.  The second: "much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." We are also saved by His life. One statement does not preclude the other. As Seventh-day Adventists, we are familiar with those who only pay attention to what was done at the cross to save man. But, we know that there is more being done to save man, than what was done at the cross. It is true that when  reconciled by the death of Christ, we are justified when we accept that sacrifice. But, "much more" is involved in the plan of salvation. I have a living Savior who is my Mediator, Protector, Teacher, Big Brother, and Savior.  I thank God for Jesus who takes my prayers and presents them before our heavenly Father. What would we do without Jesus!!

So....you can answer my two questions easily.  How does being reconciled to God save man?

How does the life of Christ save us?

It can be easy to be confused because salvation is very specific. But, even though it is specific listen to this:  We are saved by grace. But, then we read that we are saved by faith. And then we read that not only by faith, but by works is a man justified (saved). "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified."  These all makes sense, but taken by themselves appear to be contradictory.

After preaching, I have been approached by someone who takes what I said to be contrary to what I meant. It is easily resolved when I have the opportunity to explain. We lack words to specifically express what we mean so that misunderstanding does happen.

 
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

JimB

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Re: Difficult Biblical Questions
« Reply #99 on: April 14, 2015, 09:13:22 AM »
I haven't forgotten about the post just before this but right now I have more pressing matters. I'm wondering what other understand and believe about the following verses.

Heb 6:4-Heb 6:6 KJV For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
By communion with God in nature, the mind is uplifted, and the heart finds rest.  {DA 291.1}