Answers to Twisted Scripture

[Richard Myers]

Often the truth is made of no effect by taking a verse out of context. Satan has frequently used the truth to surround his lie that it might be swallowed more easily. I thought that we might take a look at some of his lies that have been presented as truth.  We will concentrate on those lies that are presented as truth using a verse of Scripture, where we can correct the error just by placing the verse in its proper context. We do not want to go elsewhere in the Bible, but just present what is before or after the verse that has been twisted to make it appear to support Satan's lie. The point is to show how easily the truth can be discerned if we will study for ourselves rather than trusting in the arm of flesh to tell us the truth.

Let us begin with this lie. "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do." Romans 7:19.  This is taught throughout the professing Christian churches as the Christian experience. It is said that a Christian cannot perfectly obey the law of God, for we fallen. Salvation we are told is by faith and obedience is  not required. We are not under law, but under grace. By professing belief in Christ, He stands in our place and our past sins are not only forgiven, but even without repentance we are still in a "saved" condition.

How can we understand this to be a lie?  It is simply a matter of reading the whole chapter. And, if you still cannot fathom the truth, read on for another 14 verses in chapter eight. It is impossible to misunderstand the true Christian experience after reading in context.....unless of course one is not converted. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Unless the mind is under the control of Christ, the deceptive heart will continue to resist the truth. Even then, the law is the school-master that leads us to Jesus. Reading in context will allow those who are not converted the opportunity to see they are under condemnation from the broken law. In these two chapters of Romans we may hear from Saul's own mouth, how painful it was to him to find out that he was dead in trespasses and sins. And, we also hear from him when he became Paul and had found Christ. He then tells us who it is that has life. Rather than discuss the truth, we just wanted to present this lie, and help all to see that the undoing of the lie, is within close reach of the twisted Scripture.

For further study regarding the truth about Romans seven and eight, we have a lengthy discussion. Romans 7 & 8

[Richard Myers]

This next lie, is one of my favorites to undo. It is one of the most dangerous in the Christian churches. And, it also comes from Romans eight.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus..." Romans 8:1.

Satan extends his effort to turn the truth into a lie with the publishing of the NIV "bible". Here is 8:1 from the NIV.   "Therefore, there is  now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Now, let us look beyond this statement that many quote to justify salvation in sin. They teach that none are condemned who are professing Christ, or who have said the "sinners prayer." What is left out will correct this lie. The "twisted Scripture" is actually corrected within the very same verse, if......we read the whole verse from the King James Bible. What does the KJV say? "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

And again, if any are so steeped in deception they cannot understand that the proof of a Christian experience is stated in Romans 8:1 from the KJV, then let them read the next 13 verses. Only a blind man could fail to see that it is only those who walk in the Spirit that are not under condemnation.

[asygo]

This next lie, is one of my favorites to undo. It is one of the most dangerous in the Christian churches. And, it also comes from Romans eight.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus..." Romans 8:1.

To avoid the controversy over conflation, I just go straight to Rom 8:4 and 9.

[Richard Myers]

This next lie, is one of my favorites to undo. It is one of the most dangerous in the Christian churches. And, it also comes from Romans eight.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus..." Romans 8:1.

To avoid the controversy over conflation, I just go straight to Rom 8:4 and 9.

Amen, dear brother!

In context:

 8:1   [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
  8:2   For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 
  8:3   For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 
  8:4   That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 
  8:5   For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 
  8:6   For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace. 
  8:7   Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 
 8:8   So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
 8:9   But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 8:10   And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
  8:11   But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 
  8:12   Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 
  8:13   For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
  8:14   For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 


This is not hard to understand, is it? Then why do we have so many "teachers" in Christian churches who do not understand? Why is there confusion in seminaries and publishing houses? Why do so many college and university professors of religion not understand? Will some now go away from here and reject what God has shown?

[Richard Myers]

How many times have we heard that Jesus asked His Father to forgive those who put Him on the cross...without them first being repentant. This is used in an attempt to teach that one has salvation while sinning....before one is repentant. Here is what Jesus said "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them..." 

Why would Jesus ask His Father to forgive someone  who is not repentant? Does God grant forgiveness to sinners who are not sorry for their sins? This is what is being taught by this "twisted Scripture".

How far do we have to go to undo the lie? Not even to the next verse. Like Romans 8:1 we only have to prayerfully read the whole verse. "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." Luke 23:34.   

Yes, we too, are to pray that God will forgive those who are blind to their sins, but we do not pray for forgiveness for those who know they sin. We pray that God will give them repentance.

[Richard Myers]

Ever hear the rebuke that church members are not to judge? Keep your fingers from pointing at other's sin. Here is a verse that is quoted to keep church members in line. Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matt. 7:1    Well...that sounds cut and dried.  Do not judge another to be sinning. Do  not reprove a sinner. Do not say anything unless it is to "affirm" others. Tolerance is the key word in the modern Christian Church.

Let us look at this verse in its context and we shall see what is really being said. It is interesting that in fact we are told that we may help our brother or sister see their sin, that we may help them remove it. And, if we read in context, we shall also hear that we are to in fact judge who it is that is sent from God.

Matthew 7
  7:1   Judge not, that ye be not judged. 
  7:2   For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 
  7:3   And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 
  7:4   Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye? 
  7:5   Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 
  7:6   Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 
  7:7   Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 
  7:8   For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 
  7:9   Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 
  7:10   Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 
  7:11   If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? 
  7:12   Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 
  7:13   Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 
  7:14   Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 
  7:15   Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 
  7:16   Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 
  7:17   Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 
  7:18   A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 
  7:19   Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 
  7:20   Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Yes, we are to judge. We are judge righteous judgment.  Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. John 7:24   

[Cop]

Yes, my Brother, this is a dangerous perversion of what Christ taught. Since my return to the Church I've heard this verse quoted more than any other it seems. I believe that Matt. 7:1, not John 3:16, is the favorite verse today of SDA's and it is definitely the most quoted verse. It appears that very few who refer to this verse, out of context, have no ideal that there is more to it, as you quoted.

I believe that the reason Matt. 7:1 is quoted so often is that many do not want their own loved sins looked at and judged by others as being sinful and evil. In other words, "I will not judge your sins as wrong and so you will not judge my sins as wrong either." They hope that by a sincere belief in this lie, God will overlook and wink at their rebellion against Him.

The true meaning of Christianity has been perverted into teaching that sin is acceptable to a holy and pure God. They want and love their cherished sin more than they love Christ and refuse to part with their evil. There is no longer an understanding of the truth that only pure and holy beings can exist in His presence, that sin must be overcome through His power in our lives.

[JimB]

Rom 5:18  Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

2Co 5:18  And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [/quote]

There are some who like to use these verses to say that Christ justified all humanity at the cross. Is this really what these texts say?

[Mimi]

The reconciliation of God to man, and man to God, is sure when certain conditions are met.

[Mimi]

All who see their own ignorance and sin, will have some appreciation of the great work of redemption, through which man is chosen as the object of God's patience and loving-kindness. As man sees the sinfulness of his nature in the light of the law, he will realize his great need of a Saviour. We all need to search the Scriptures, that we may become acquainted with the conditions of salvation, by which reconciliation may be brought about between man and God. Man must find the path that leads back to the Father's house, and every step away from transgression is a step toward Paradise. Every step in repentance, contrition, obedience, and faith, is a step toward the Father. True faith in Christ will lead to obedience to the requirements of God.  {ST, July 7, 1890 par. 6}

 The blessings of the new covenant are grounded purely on mercy in forgiving unrighteousness and sins. . . . All who humble their hearts, confessing their sins, will find mercy and grace and assurance. Has God, in showing mercy to the sinner, ceased to be just? Has He dishonored His holy law, and will He henceforth pass over the violation of it? God is true. He changes not. The conditions of salvation are ever the same. Life, eternal life, is for all who will obey God's law. . . .  {AG 136.5}

     Under the new covenant, the conditions by which eternal life may be gained are the same as under the old--perfect obedience. . . . In the new and better covenant, Christ has fulfilled the law for the transgressors of law, if they receive Him by faith as a personal Saviour. . . . In the better covenant we are cleansed from sin by the blood of Christ.  {AG 136.6}

[Mimi]

Rom 5:18  Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Jesus died for the sins of the world - the entire world - He paid the price, for the wages of sin is death. He died that death. He was the sacrifice without blemish. But not all sinners will accept His death as a payment for their sins, therefore, not all are justified. Without that acceptance coupled with a life of abiding in Him, there is no salvation. Here is a lady who can explain this much better than I.

   When God pardons the sinner, remits the punishment he deserves, and treats him as though he had not sinned, He receives him into divine favor, and justifies him through the merits of Christ's righteousness. The sinner can be justified only through faith in the atonement made through God's dear Son, who became a sacrifice for the sins of the guilty world. No one can be justified by any works of his own. He can be delivered from the guilt of sin, from the condemnation of the law, from the penalty of transgression, only by virtue of the suffering, death, and resurrection of Christ. Faith is the only condition upon which justification can be obtained, and faith includes not only belief but trust. . . . {NL 20.1}

     Many concede that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the world, but at the same time they hold themselves away from Him, and fail to repent of their sins, fail to accept of Jesus as their personal Saviour. Their faith is simply the assent of the mind and judgment to the truth; but the truth is not brought into the heart, that it might sanctify the soul and transform the character. . . . {NL 20.2} 
 

Justification is the opposite of condemnation. God's boundless mercy is exercised toward those who are wholly undeserving. He forgives transgressions and sins for the sake of Jesus, who has become the propitiation for our sins. Through faith in Christ, the guilty transgressor is brought into favor with God and into the strong hope of life eternal.  {FW 104.1}

Through the grace of God, the gift by grace has abounded to many through Christ; yet multitudes choose to remain under the dominion of sin and death, rather than to apply for the blessings of the reign of grace.

So ....... there is no such thing as universal justification.

[JimB]

Justification is the opposite of condemnation. {FW 104.1}

Ok... I know that I'm being a bit of a rascal here with my next comment but I'm doing it only so that we can see what some are saying in the church. Recently I heard a sermon about the woman caught in adultery and brought before Jesus. We are all very familiar with the story but let's look at the following texts.

Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11  She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

In this sermon the speaker used the following logic. Since justification is the opposite of condemnation this woman was justified since Christ didn't condemn her even though we don't see any repentance on her part.

I must say it's any interesting theory.

[Mimi]

We don't see repentance on her part, but evidently Jesus did, otherwise He would have condemned her.

  

See if this helps ...

The woman had stood before Jesus, cowering with fear. His words, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone," had come to her as a death sentence. She dared not lift her eyes to the Saviour's face, but silently awaited her doom. In astonishment she saw her accusers depart speechless and confounded; then those words of hope fell upon her ear, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." Her heart was melted, and, casting herself at the feet of Jesus, she sobbed out her grateful love and with bitter tears confessed her sins.  {MH 89.1}

     This was to her the beginning of a new life, a life of purity and peace, devoted to God. In the uplifting of this fallen soul, Jesus performed a greater miracle than in healing the most grievous physical disease; He cured the spiritual malady which is unto death everlasting. This penitent woman became one of His most steadfast followers. With self-sacrificing love and devotion she showed her gratitude for His forgiving mercy. For this erring woman the world had only contempt and scorn, but the Sinless One pitied her weakness and reached to her a helping hand. While the hypocritical Pharisees denounced, Jesus bade her, "Go, and sin no more."  {MH 89.2}

When God pardons the sinner, remits the punishment he deserves, and treats him as though he had not sinned, He receives him into divine favor, and justifies him through the merits of Christ's righteousness. The sinner can be justified only through faith in the atonement made through God's dear Son, who became a sacrifice for the sins of the guilty world. No one can be justified by any works of his own. He can be delivered from the guilt of sin, from the condemnation of the law, from the penalty of transgression, only by virtue of the suffering, death, and resurrection of Christ. Faith is the only condition upon which justification can be obtained, and faith includes not only belief but trust.  {1SM 389.1}

[Richard Myers]

We have discussed this elsewhere. Jesus did not come into the world to condemn us, but to save us.   "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."  John 3:17

This does not mean that the woman was not condemned, for he who transgresses the law is always condemned. Notice that it was after Christ said He did not condemn her that her heart was melted and she confessed her sin. This is very important. It is the grace of Christ that transformed her evil heart. It is the only power that can bring us to repentance. Until that change takes place, the sinner is condemned by the broken law of God.

[Richard Myers]

Here's another twisted truth. We understand justification by faith to be the reformation message and also the underpinning of the whole of Scripture. It is the message of the gospel of grace. Man deserves only death, but through a knowledge of God, through a full surrender to Christ, man may become a partaker of the divine nature and escape the corruption that is ours by our fallen nature. We may gain eternal life if we will learn of Christ and cease resisting the drawing of His Spirit. We must be born again.

Yet, we hear Romans 5:18 introducing a new thought. That all men are justified, not by faith, but by the death of Christ. Prayerfully read the twisted Scripture: "Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life."

I don't read and write in New Testament Greek, so I can't tell you what the original author wrote. But, we can know what justification is. We know that one is not justified unless he is born of God and walking after the Spirit. There is a teaching that takes this verse and teaches that it means all have been justified. Through developing a new set of definitions one is to believe that there are different kinds of justifications. There is only one. What does the term justification mean?

It has to do with our standing before God and the universe. The Bible teaches that the wages of sin is death. God told Adam and Eve they would surely die if they ate from the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden. They ate and they no longer could have eternal life without some changes taking place. They disqualified themselves of their eternal life. They were not justified in having eternal life. God's rules had been broken and in order to regain their justification for eternal life, there were conditions that must be met. There were two. First, Christ must die in their place. Second, they must receive Christ into their hearts. If both were to take place, they would then regain eternal life. It would be granted based upon these two conditions having been met. Having both requirements fulfilled the sinner would then be "justified" in regaining eternal life.

Here is the definition of justify:

Etymology:
    Middle English justifien, from Anglo-French or Late Latin; Anglo-French justifier, from Late Latin justificare, from Latin justus
Date:    14th century

transitive verb1 a: to prove or show to be just, right, or reasonable b (1): to show to have had a sufficient legal reason (2): to qualify (oneself) as a surety by taking oath to the ownership of sufficient property2 aarchaic : to administer justice to barchaic : absolve c: to judge, regard, or treat as righteous and worthy of salvation3 a: to space (as lines of text) so that the lines come out even at the margin b: to make even by justifying <justified margins>intransitive verb1 a: to show a sufficient lawful reason for an act done b: to qualify as bail or surety2: to justify lines of text


This is the meaning of justification. It is the reason why one can be saved. The "justification" for eternal life is just what Scripture has revealed, that we be born again. Because we accept Christ as our sacrifice, He will stand in our place for our past sins. We are then justified in Christ Jesus.

Many explanations are poured forth to make something new of the term justification, but it is all wrong. The verse in question does not say that all have been justified, but rather that by the act of Jesus' suffering and death, the gift of justification is offered to all men. If a man does not accept that free gift in the manner specified, then the man is not justified in receiving eternal life. Again, what is required to obtain justification?  The death of Christ which is done AND the reception of grace into the life. No changed life reveals a lack of acceptance of the grace that was freely offered. No full surrender, not justification of any kind. None are justified in sin.

[Richard Myers]

The following posts were moved from another thread.

asygo     October 09, 2007, 04:14:00 PM »
   

    In His love He died for ALL to be saved. So yes in His love He did save all through the death of Jesus.

That is absolutely true. But that is just one aspect salvation. This objective, universal salvation is a fact we must all understand.

But there are also subjective aspects of salvation. Take Rom 6:23. All of us have sinned, and therefore deserve death. But the gift of God is life in Christ Jesus. (Yes, I omitted "eternal" for a reason.) The gift of life is available to all, but not all will accept it. Those who do not accept it will not experience salvation for themselves; they will continue to be dead in trespasses and sins.

Did Christ die for them? Absolutely! Will they live with Christ eternally? Absolutely not!

While the Red Sea was open to all the Israelites, only those who personally walked across were truly saved.

------------------
By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go


asygo      October 09, 2007, 04:28:00 PM »
     

    The price for our salvation was paid for by Jesus. It had been bought and paid for by Him. It was given to all, no one was left out.

    The issue becomes will we accept it?

We can look at it in terms of bondage. Since Adam sold us into sin, we are all prisoners of sin by default. But the Second Adam came and opened all the prison gates by paying the required penalty.

So, who is saved? Can we say that all are saved because all the gates are open? Yes, but it is an unsatisfying kind of salvation.

The kind of salvation we usually think about are reserved for those who go through the open gate and walk out. That's those who no longer walk in bondage to sin, self, and Satan. And those who do that will be in the minority, Jesus told us.

------------------
By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go



Richard Myers      October 10, 2007, 05:15:00 AM »

How can we say one is saved when he has not been born again? It seems to confuse the gospel of grace? There is a teaching that says we are all "in Christ" and therefore justified, or saved. I find this to be an untruth. None are saved until they are converted or born again. None are justified until they are dead to self. None have salvation without receiving Christ into the heart. I think we have moved off topic and need to take this line of thought into the proper thread that we may resolve the issue of who is "saved" and who is not. We have many threads that deal with the gospel.

This topic was started with one thought in mind, but because of the title, I wanted to clarify how the term can be used in an acceptable manner. In discussing the love that God has for the sinner while his probation remains open, that is to say as long as the heart can be impressed by the Holy Spirit, God loves the sinner without conditions. When God's love and drawing have been resisted to the point where the heart cannot be changed, then God directs the angels to leave the sinner to his idols and to help others who can still be saved.

Does God still love the sinner who is eternally lost? That is the subject of another topic which as we said before has been started in the Worship Forum. It has little importance compared to the truth that God requires nothing from the sinner in order that He love Him (while probation remains open). It is the love of God for us while we were yet sinners that changes us. God requires nothing from us that He would love us. He just does.

Salvation is a different matter. If we desire to be transformed and saved, we must be born again. Without this transformation of character, there is no salvation. Yes, God loves the sinner, but He will not take him into heaven without the sinner loving Him without reservation. God's love begets love, but one must know of this love before he can be changed. It is this reason why we continue to clarify the status of the love of God for the sinner. It is grace that saves sinful man. This grace is the love of God for the sinner while he is yet a sinner. His love is unmerited by the sinner. There is nothing the sinner can do to merit the love of God. It is all God and none of the sinner that draws the sinner to God. It is this great love that did sacrifice His only innocent Son for a world that did not love Him that breaks the hard heart of the sinner.

Let none stand in the way of this love without requirements. Let none interpose between the sinner and Christ. If man rejects this love, then he will be forever lost. But, it does not change the fact that God loved the sinner while he was yet a sinner. If God hates Satan, fine, but He loves me and He loves you, if you have not rejected Him fully. This we know. It is this love that we are to not only learn of, but to keep our minds focused upon. This is the only way we have of gaining the victory over sin. By beholding Christ and this great undeserved love, we are changed into His image from glory to glory.



asygo     October 10, 2007, 10:18:00 PM »
   

    How can we say one is saved when he has not been born again? It seems to confuse the gospel of grace?

The redemption price has been paid for all, with no exception. Even the ultimately impenitent have been paid for.

It is grace, in terms of unmerited favor. But it is not the gospel. The gospel is God's power to save. And the fact that Jesus paid the redemption price, infinite though the payment was, completely displays neither God's power nor His salvation.

   

    There is a teaching that says we are all "in Christ" and therefore justified, or saved. I find this to be an untruth.

That teaching is completely false. Though Christ died for all, very few are in Christ.

If anyone wants to have an idea how many are in Christ, just count how many people walk after the Spirit instead of the flesh.

------------------
By God's grace,
Arnold M. Sy Go

[Richard Myers]

The term "accuser of the brethren" is heard not infrequently. It is a favorite attack from those who seek to destroy the influence of those who "keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."  What is not often heard is the attack being turned back with the same charge. As time goes on, many will come to see that the real accuser of the brethren is the one who has used this charge against the faithful of God. It is a rather amazing truth to understand.

In other words, the real accuser of the brethren will often turn out to be the one who is heard calling others the "accuser of the brethren".  In Jesus' day, John Baptist would have been called an accuser of the brethren when he said "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?  Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance."  And even Jesus according to some who use the term today would have been the "accuser" when he said "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." 

How do we put this Scripture to its proper use?

[Mimi]

A woman asked me about a verse today, John 3:13, specifically. Here it is in context:

Joh 3:9  Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10  Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Joh 3:11  Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Joh 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Joh 3:14  And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15  That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


What is Jesus telling Nicodemus in verse 13? We know by this time Enoch, Moses and Elijah had already ascended into heaven. There is a deeper spiritual message Jesus is conveying to Nicodemus. What is it? I looked at the Bible commentary, even Matthew Henry's commentary but would like to pick the minds of our Bible students.

[Sister Dee]

Maybe this is too simplistic, but it seems to me that Jesus is saying that there is no one on the earth, except for Himself, that has been up to Heaven and could speak of heavenly things.   

[Mimi]

Of His authority? Of His Messiahship? That He is not just "another prophet?"

I think so.