Author Topic: The Gospel and Salvation  (Read 39814 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 40300
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2000, 10:18:00 AM »
Amen, Brother James.  I do not know what the situation is like in Jakarta, but Jesus is coming soon and many of our brothers and sisters are already under fierce attack around the world. Persecution finds many ways to afflict God's people, yet Jesus will never leave us nor forsake us! He will grant us grace and strength to honor and glorify Him whom has given all for us.

------------------
In His love and grace,    Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

James Saptenno

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 86
    • http://
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2000, 12:23:00 AM »
You are right brother Richard.

As in Indonesia in the last 12 months there has been some big trials for Christians in some provinces. There rose a conflict between Moslems and Christians with thousands of dead victims. A very cruel and satanic war. And among the Christians we found a few SDA’s members. Churches were burned to ashes, families were killed, women, children. Many fled and seek refugee in other province. It was a big riot. But we can see that God protect His family, as many reports from those province told us that there are very few SDA members got killed.
The situation now is getting quite back to normal but some times small incidents happen. This issue about religion conflict is dangerous and hot. So what all we can do is always asking God protection and ready to meet the worst.

Anyway, I believe Christ is at hand, coming soon. Probation will closed in a very short time. Last day events bring us closer and closer to the long awaiting DAY. He has pronounced His second coming, so that His day  will not come as a thieve in the night for us which live in the lights and not in darkness.

Your brother in Christ

James S


M.A. Crawford

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1666
    • http://
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2000, 10:57:00 AM »
Brother James S, someone has said: "Democracy is a very bad form of government; but all the others are so much worse." To which I heartedly agree with, especially the last part. Democracy is risky because it depends on individuals to self-govern themselves and VOLUNTARILY without coercion abide by the laws of the land. Democracy was conceived by men who tried to incoprorate in a document (Declaration of Independence) both religious and civil liberties, while at the same time keeping them seperated and keeping one from having control over the other.

This is not the case in many countries around the world where religious zealots are in control of the government employing, in many instances, the strong arm of civil authoritarianism to keep the people in check. The Founding Fathers knew that to consider any "marriage" between church and state would eventually produce the kind of tyranny that we see in many Third World countries where poverty, ignorance, and a lack of education are characteristics of the majority of the populace.

My point is it is oftentimes quite dangerous to be of a different religious persuasion in some of these foreign countries where to be such could be "hazardous to one's health." To be a Seventh-day Adventist in some parts of the world means to live under such a threat. Individuals, in some instances, take a chance with their very lives by accepting the Three Angels' Message, and I have nothing but admiration for them while at the same time wondering if we in this "land of the free, and home of the brave" would be willing to stand for these same Adventist truths if our lives were threatened as a result of what we believe.

M.A.        

M.A.

Daryl Fawcett

  • Guest
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2000, 11:10:00 AM »
A very good question.

It would definitely separate the tares from the wheat.

------------------
In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl.


James Saptenno

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 86
    • http://
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2000, 10:58:00 AM »

As the bible says, all God’s children will face great tribulation. I thought a few years ago, how could a Sunday law made effective in a Moslem country as Indonesia, and think we will live in peace for a long  years to go. But Satan has different way for us. I never imagine that religion fanaticism can be so dangerous and very sensitive. Now, we can not even feel save. And must really prepare our self in a better relationship with God, so that we can have the love and faith of Christ. And have no fear to continue on the organization of our churches and schools, to spread the gospel and announcing the three angel message.

In His love

James S


Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 40300
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2000, 04:31:00 PM »
Amen, Brother James. Our prayers are with our brothers and sisters in Indonesia. Soon we all will be facing very difficult situations, and indeed many are today. Let draw close to the Lord on the Sabbath day.  :)

In His love and grace,   Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Laurie Mosher

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1948
  • There is a place of quiet rest
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2000, 04:33:00 PM »
   Dear Forum family!
 I'm reminded of a little finger play in which a Brother was pointing out to a member of another faith, the importance of the Gospel and God's 10 Commandment Law. Using each finger on a hand the Brother said.

"The 'thumb' represents the "PREACHER".
And what does the Preacher 'preach'?
The second finger represents 'THE GOOD NEWS'.
And what is "The Good News"?
Jesus Christ   (3rd finger)
Why did Jesus Christ come?
He came to "SAVE SINNERS" (4th finger)
What is SIN?
Sin is the transgression of the law. (5th finger)
NOW:
 If you take away THE LAW, there is NO SIN. And if there is no sin, we don't need a Saviour.
Since there is no Saviour, there is NO GOOD NEWS.
And if there is No Good News,we don't need Jesus.
So what is left? " A PREACHER WITH NOTHING TO SAVE'.

 Remember Matthew 1:21 And the Bible says "And she (Mary) shall bring forth a Son, and thou shalt call His name JESUS; FOR he shall SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM (not in) THEIR sins."

  And Jesus said "IF you love ME,(then) keep My commandments." John 14:15.

 We 'fear God" when we remember to respect Him and have reverence for Him. The Christian's fear is not one of being a slave to a dictator.

  Keep "the" faith as it is in Jesus! And "be thou faithful unto death, and I (Jesus) will give you a crown of life." Rev.2:10.  Jesus is coming VERY SOON!
  Br. Laurie

Keep "the" Faith,  Brother Laurie

LindaRS

  • Senior Moderator
  • Posts: 5185
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2000, 12:50:00 PM »
Thank you Br. Laurie, Ed and I both like the finger play.  I've have to remember it, because I will probably need it.

Linda

O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. O Lord, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing. Jeremiah  10:23-24

Gerry Buck

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 232
    • http://
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2000, 04:19:00 AM »
The word 'Gospel' is a derivitive of an old German phrase"Gott Schpiel".  Literaly God Speak.

God speaking His message to His children.
Just think,the God of this universe condescended to speak to us.

the English call it the 'good news' of God.
I like that ,the good news.....what good news,Jn.3:16---God so loved this world(and His creatures in it) He GAVE(not loaned) His only  begotten Son,that WHOSOEVER ( any and all)believeth in Him (His good bnews message) should( not will) not perish( be destroyed) but have everlasting(eternal) life.

The bad news is : the wages of sin is death.
The good news is: the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus.

------------------
He is LORD!
May He come soon.
Gerry

Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart.Ps.26:2
Gerry B.

jps

  • Regular Member
  • Posts: 1
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2000, 11:52:00 AM »
Quite simply the gospel is:

"...The power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Rom 1:16

The question becomes then becomes how(?).

"Who (God the Father) hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling,"

How?

"not according to our works, "

Oh? Then How?

"but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus"

When?

"before the world began, But is now made manifest by the appearing of"

Who?

"our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath"

What?

"abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light"

How?

"through the gospel"  2 Tim 1:9,10

There are three "components", if you will, to the gospel.  
(1) Realize you're a sinner (having broken the law you have no hope of immortality or eternal life),
(2) Accept by faith that Jesus Christ came and paid your penalty for breaking the law,
(3) And finally, Repent, turn from your life of sin, take up your cross and follow Christ.

This can be traced all though Acts, ok.. really all of the Bible, but take a look at the events in Acts and you will see the same 3 repeated things.

May God bless,

jps

------------------------
I am nothing without Him

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 40300
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2000, 09:11:00 AM »
Brother Jim, sorry to take so long to respond, the GC session came along.  :)

Yes,  I like your three components. Can we look at it a little deeper?

How is it that one can learn to accept this wonderful gift? It must be a very difficult proposition, for most will not accept it. Even of those in the church, it appears that many will refuse the blessing.

What is one to do in order that he or she may at last be found on that sea of glass with our Saviour?

In His love and grace,     Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

James Douglas

  • Regular Member
  • Posts: 19
    • http://
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2000, 07:56:00 AM »
Salvation.
Everybody wants to be saved, and indeed Christ has saved all men. But not all goes to heaven. Why? Are they that not enter heaven because they have no faith, or no works, or no love, or a combination of it? What is the formulae to get the tickets to  enter heaven?

In His love

James S


Liane H

  • Regular Member
  • Posts: 2365
    • http://
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2000, 01:59:00 PM »
I think that the one and only longing of God is the day that we will be with him forever.

This verse in the Bible stands out to me many times. "Mark 1:14 "Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God."

Jesus says in the next verse, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

I go back to Matthew 7:33 and Jesus says: Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

For me the gospel has always been and will continue to be, how our God longs for His children to be with Him in the Fathers kingdom.  It was the price that Jesus paid to get us to the kingdom of God.  What was at hand, was that the Lamb who had been sacrificed from the foundation of the world, was now at hand, in the flesh to fulfill the promise He made in that Garden to Adam and Eve.  Oh what a promise fulfilled. I wonder if Adam and Eve could have been able to comprehend how great that price was going to be. They knew someone or something was going to have to do, but I think not that they realized that the very God who clothed them in there nakedness was going to have to spread out His arms in death.    

All the lesson we are taught, about love, repenting, forgiveness, etc is a stepping stone to  getting there.  The gospel tells us that all we really are here on this planet are pilgrims and wanderers until we reach the kingdom of God.

Liane    

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

M.A. Crawford

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1666
    • http://
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2000, 04:05:00 PM »
Bro. James S., when you say "everybody wants to be saved," I assume you mean everyone wants to be saved who has made the provisions according to the Bible to be saved. This is key to our understanding of what constitutes being saved. The Bible is our "road map" to salvation. It contains principles when followed that will lead to eternal life. Without the instruction contained in the Word, it is not possible to be saved.

When you say "Christ has saved all men," I assume you mean Christ has provided the way whereby all men might be saved (John 14:6). But,unfortunately, all do not go to Heaven because all do not choose to be saved. There are many---both male and female---who do not want anything to do with any kind of organized religion. But thankfully, for those of us who want to be saved, Jesus Christ has provided us with an example that we should order our lives after His Divine Likeness in order to be saved (1 Peter 2:21; cf 1 John 2:6).

What is the formula to be saved and enter Heaven? The Bible very clearly tells us to "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved..." (Acts 16:31; cf John 6:47). There is no mystery to salvation and eternal life. When one TRULY BELIEVES in God, it will be manifested in the life by way of obedience to His Word. I do not believe it is possible to believe in God and do otherwise. I believe true belief in God will cause an individual to bring his/her life in line with the Will of God and to order one's steps after His Word without reservation. I am convinced that is what Jesus meant when He said: "...Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 18:3). A child with loving parents believes and trusts in them without hesitation. He does not have to wonder. He feels safe and secure in knowing that they have his best interest at heart in whatever they ask of him to do. So it is with our Heavenly Father. WHATEVER God asks of us in His Word, we can rest assured it is designed for our good and well-being.

M.A.  

M.A.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 40300
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2001, 08:17:00 PM »
Amen, Brother Crawford. The term "saved" is used to denote one who has met the conditions of salvation. While the offer is to all, most reject the offer and thus do not possess salvation and are not in a "saved" condition. Yes, there are conditions to receiving eternal life. One must come to Jesus and give all that they have. They must purchase the pearl of great price. Yet, without the sacrifice of Jesus this would not be possible. No amount of money can purchase salvation, for the wages of sin is death. Only the death and sufferings of Jesus can atone for our sins. But, we must come to Jesus that we might believe.

In His love and grace,         Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 40300
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2002, 11:05:00 AM »
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved..."  Amen, Brother Crawford.

Many have not a correct concept of what "believe" entails. Many, so many think a mere profession of belief is satisfactory to obtain eternal life. Here they err. As we examine the concept of "believe", I would like to take us to the Words of Jesus that will give us added information upon which to not only understand the concept "believe", but will press home a correct understanding of the gospel and salvation.

We find Jesus answering the question about how to obtain salvation in Matthew 19 beginning with verse 16. "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?  And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

The Spirit of Truth is the only One that can bring home to the mind the direct relationship between "believe" and the obedience that Jesus said is required to obtain salvation.

What is the that relationship?

Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

DLWilson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 19
    • http://
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2002, 04:17:00 PM »

Brothers Crawford and Myers,

Your concern that we understand the conditions of having eternal life is commendable.  The scriptural requirements of faith and obedience have been steadily attacked in our church and even more so outside of it.  

Because the word "saved" is used to designate a state of having eternal life,  it would appear that you want to be sure that James S is not denying the importance of exercising true faith if one would have eternal life.  Such faith appropriates the righteousness of Christ in the sinners behalf.  The condition of eternal life, perfect obedience to God's holy law, is met, because Christ is the "end" of the law for everyone that believes.
I too hope that James S would not deny this.  

To his credit, I would point out that, in fact, it appears that he is  not saying that "all men have eternal life".  He is affirming that all men have been saved and also that not all men have been saved eternally and therefore not all men will enter heaven or have eternal life.  

Please allow me to suggest that James is probably using a different definition of the word "saved", than the theological connotation that we often use of "having eternal life" or of "entering heaven".  If he were using the definition that you are using he would be obviously contradicting himself.  

The word "saved" literally means to be delivered and the scriptures use it in this manner.  Therefore,  James is technically and Biblically correct.  Jesus has already saved the world.  He has already delivered the entire human race from death.   This is in fact the basis of the good news, the revelation of the Father's unimaginable love,  that "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us".  

In Christ,

DLWilson


Randy S

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 134
    • http://
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2002, 04:48:00 PM »
I would respectfully disagree with the three components of salvation posted earlier.  When Jesus spoke to Nicodemus of salvation he spoke of being born again.  When David spoke of what God really wants in Paslm 51 he spoke of truth in the inward parts and a changed heart.  Indeed, to be "converted" means to be changed.  Salvation requires that we be changed from rebels into loyal followers of God.

If there are three components to salvation then I would identify them as repentence, forgiveness, and change (of life, heart, mind).  Even then, repentence and forgiveness are essentially prerequisites for salvation.  A changed character is really the component that saves.  And that is made possible by the power of God.

Consider the analogy of a patient who has contracted lung cancer (sin) from his decision to smoke.  He learns of a doctor who is willing (forgiveness) and able (power) to save him by healing the disease.  Here we have both repentence and forgiveness, but if the operation (change) is never performed the patient will die.  When the operation is performed and the patient is changed and the cancer is removed then the patient is saved.  Even then the patient may decide to return to smoking and be lost.

We can see this in many stories in the Bible and in the SOP.  Repentence alone does not equal salvation.  You can be sorry but not be willing to change and you will be lost.  Forgiveness alone does not equal salvation.  Jesus forgave those who were crucifying him.  But unless they later repented and allowed God to change them they were lost.  It is in allowing God to change the heart that salvation occurs.  Repentence on the part of the sinner and forgiveness on the part of God are the prerequisites.  But unless we trust that God has the power to change us through the new birth and we decide to allow him to do so we will never see the kingdom.


M.A. Crawford

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1666
    • http://
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2002, 11:39:00 AM »
Thank you, Bro. Wilson, for your kind and insightful comments. I especially appreciate your comments above concerning what Bro. James S. probably has reference to when he stated that Jesus has already saved everyone. You did an excellent job in seeing and presenting the statement "through his eyes" so to speak.

As I stated somewhere in another forum, as moderators, we do not engage in these forum discussions for the purpose of vanity or self-glory, but to exalt Jesus Christ and the Word of God as THE ONLY MEANS OF SALVATION for those who desire to be saved. Therefore, I write what I write for the purpose of causing us all TO LOOK UPON JESUS so we can order our lives after His Divine Likeness. The Bible instructs us HOW we are to so order our lives in that manner. This is the reason why it is OF PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE, here in these last days while probation lingers, that we spend EVERY WAKING MOMENT very carefully and prayerfully studying God's Instruction Book--The Holy Bible--so we can become doers of His Word and not just hearers only (Jas. 1:22). It is one thing to know that which is right (there are many millions who know that, including the devil and his angels [Jas. 2:19]), but it is totally another TO DO THAT WHICH IS RIGHT!!! Our objective as moderators in these forums is simply to help one another study our Bibles and learn what's right in the hope that it will lead us all TO DO THAT WHICH IS RIGHT IN GOD'S SIGHT.

M.A.

M.A.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 40300
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
The Gospel and Salvation
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2002, 11:54:00 AM »
Amen, Brothers Wilson and Randy.

As I read both of your posts, something impressed me that I believe to be very important. Our interpretation of words and thoughts is always a little different someplace. We must work to come into unity of doctrine. Many times we are not very far apart.

This discussion of the foundation of our faith is quite important and even though we may disagree on some interpretations, we can agree on the most important point. We need to clearly understand what we must to in order to obtain eternal life. This is where Satan has been successful with his deceptions.

It appears that we agree that we need to have an indwelling Christ. We must die to self and allow Christ to rule. When we come to Jesus just as we are, He will give us repentance and make us "partakers of the divine nature." He forgives us of past sins and His suffering and death atones for my past sins. I am justified by His blood, but more than this, He gives me of His character. It is now Christ , not I that lives.

Can we agree that Jesus "imputes" His righteousness to the repentant sinner and "imparts" His righteousness to those who have died to self?

Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.