Latter Rain

[DavidTBattler]

In one of the first posts by "adventbeliever" on page one of this thread, he quotes the following by AT Jones:

"Now, that message of the righteousness of Christ is the loud cry. It is the latter rain."

How correct do others see this statement as being?  

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"...We believe that through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved..."  (Acts 15:11).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler

[Richard Myers]

In my studies I have come to the conclusion that the Latter Rain is the message of the "righteousness of Christ", but I would not present the message as Waggoner and Jones did. I prefer the message as I have learned it through the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. In these, I find more of the truth. Waggoner and Jones were fairly narrow and their message was not as developed as it is now.  Light is progressive and much more light was given after they  went into apostacy.

Let us seek Jesus daily and pray for a greater knowledge of the righteousness of Christ and soon we shall see Jesus face to face!  I have been listening for this message and I have been giving it, but this is the first time that I am seeing an intelligent discussion of the "Latter Rain". Let us continue to pray for the outpouring that we might be refreshed.

In His love and grace,    Richard

[L.Picard]

Richard, that quote was from the Spirit of Prophecy. 5 T 744.

I certainly could never ever agree with neither David's post nor yours. Your statements totally contradict the Bible and the SOP. To say that the church today is ahead of the message as given by Jones and Waggoner is totally absurd. The church today is so far behind that message that more than ever before it can be truly said that "not one in one hundred understands the Bible truth on this subject that is so necessary to our present and eternal welfare." 1 SM 360.

"We want to understand the time in which we live. We do not half understand it. We do not half take it in. My heart trembles in me when I think of what a foe we have to meet, and how poorly we are prepared to meet him. The trials of the children of Israel, and their attitude just before the first coming of Christ, have been presented before me again and again to illustrate the position of the people of God in their experience before the second coming of Christ--how the enemy sought every occasion to take control of the minds of the Jews, and today he is seeking to blind the minds of God's servants, that they may not be able to discern the precious truth." 1 SM 406

We are repeating the history of that people. "The remnant church is called to go through an experience similar to that of the Jews." Ibid, 387.

The 1888 message, that "precious truth," can be stated briefly: Our only hope is in beholding the Lamb of God and trusting in the divine merits of the blood that was shed for us and, like Abraham, who trusted in the merits of a Savior to come, we are to expect the Word of God to do what it says and depend upon the Word and the Word only for the accomplishment of what that Word says. This is clearly taught in the Bible. See Gen.15:6; Rom.4:20-21; 1 Thess.2;13; Isaiah 55:10,11; Matt.8:6-10. And Jesus, who is the Author of faith, says that that is faith, even "great faith." Matt.8:6-10.

I know that that is not half understood by our people today. When is this dwelt upon on this forum? Can you name one person on this forum who truly acknowledges and teaches these simple things? Personally, I don't know of any. What is being said on this forum is exactly what we have been hearing year after year in the Sabbath School and from the pulpits.

But before you make any comment about what I have just stated, you need to deal with the statement from 1 SM p.406 which I have quoted above. Tanx.

[This message has been edited by L.Picard (edited 05-02-2001).]

[Richard Myers]

Brother Picard, you say "Our only hope is in beholding the Lamb of God and trusting in the divine merits of the blood that was shed for us and, like Abraham, who trusted in the merits of a Savior to come, we are to expect the Word of God to do what it says and depend upon the Word and the Word only for the accomplishment of what that Word says." And that no else here at TRO has been saying this. You need to do a little more reading right here in the BOL forum.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church is still Laodicean, but God has not left the church without light. Waggoner and Jones ceased getting light and Ellen White continued getting more and gave it to the church.  There has always been those that are faithful in the church.

Richard

[This message has been edited by Richard Myers (edited 05-03-2001).]

[DavidTBattler]

Brother Picard

Are you sure that you yourself know what the 1888 message is?  Why would you so stoically defend Waggoner and Jones' 1888 messages, when there are other sources that are more complete?  Like SOP and the Bible?  Where did Ellen G White say that Waggoner & Jones were the only ones who had any light on this subject, as you seem to be intimating?

Dear Jesus

Thankyou for bringing us all together in this forum, to see what you are trying to say to us as a collective people today.

Because You were born of a woman, and born under law, and because you were made to be sin, and because You died the death that was ours, so that we could live the life that was your's; and because You ever live to make intercession for each person here in this thread; we can rejoice, and praise Your Holy name.  

You are the only God who could ever relate to our every heart-ache, our every tear, and yet; make something good come out of it all.

Please send Your Holy Spirit now, to open our hearts to Your Voice, through the 1888 message You have entrusted us with.

In Jesus' name I pray

Amen.

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"...We believe that through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved..."  (Acts 15:11).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler

[M.A. Crawford]

Permit me to add my comments to what has been said on this topic. Dr. George R. Knight, in his book entitled A User-Friendly Guide To The 1888 Message on pp. 110-111, offers the following:

"38. What are the loud cry and the latter rain and how has Adventist theology featured them?

"The Biblical concept of the latter rain is a spiritual analogy based on the Palestinian agricultural year. The early rain fell in the autumn, germinated the seed, and gave crops a start, whereas the latter rain came during the spring and brought the crops to maturity.

"In a spiritual sense the early rain began to shower at Pentecost with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. By analogy the latter rain of the Holy Spirit is to fall just prior to the Second Advent, not only to enable men and women to deepen their Christian experience in preparation for the traumatic end-time events predicted in Revelation but also to empower the church to proclaim its special message to the ends of the earth. Thus both the early and the latter rain have to do with the power of the Holy Spirit.

The loud cry, by way of contrast, is the last message God's people will proclaim to a dying world. The content of that message, according to Ellen White, is the final call to come out of Babylon (Rev. 18:4) united with the third angel's message (GC 604).

"Thus the loud cry is God's last message of warning to the world, while the latter rain provides the power needed to proclaim it (see EW 86). Or as the Seventh-day Adventist Encyclopedia puts it, 'the latter rain...qualifies the church for bearing witness in the "loud cry"'(1996 ed., vol. 1, 905). Ideally, of course, the two were never to be separated. Unfortuantely as we shall see, the ideal is not always realized.

"39. In What way did Ellen White relate the loud cry to the 1888 message?

"In November 1892 Mrs. White penned that 'the time of test is just upon us, for the loud cry of the third angel HAS ALREADY BEGUN in the revelation of the righteousness of Christ, the sin-pardoning Redeemer. This is the beginning of the light of the angel whose glory shall fill the whole earth. For [i.e., because] it is the work of every one to whom the message of warning has come TO LIFT UP JESUS, to present him to the world' (RH, Nov. 22, 1892, author's emphasis).

"In short, Ellen White held that the loud cry had begun with the proclamation of righteousness by faith in 1888."

M.A.  

[L.Picard]

Brother Crawford, I agree but what is the message of righteousness by faith? "Righteousness is love and love is the light and the life of God." M.B.18. We get the life of the Word by faith, that is, by expecting the Word of God to do what it says, and by depending upon the Word and the Word only to accomplish what it says for the divinity of life and Spirit is in the Word to do all that is expressed in the Word. That is righteousness (God's right doing) by faith! 1 Thess.2:13.

"The Word of God is the seed... In every command and in every promise of the Word of God is the power, the very life of God by which the command may be fulfilled and the promise realized. He who by faith receives the Word is receiving the very life and character of God. Every seed brings forth fruit after its kind. Receive into the soul by faith the incorruptible seed of the Word, and it will bring forth a character and a life after the similitude of the character and the life of God." C.O.L.38.

"The creative energy that called the worlds into existence is in the Word of God. That Word imparts power, it begets life. Every command is a promise. Accepted by the will, received into the soul, it brings with it the very life of the Infinite One. It transforms the nature and creates the soul in the image of God." Education p.126.

"His commandment is life everlasting." John 12:50. "Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind." Rom.12:2. It is so if we do not interpose a perverse will. "Your commandments are my delight." Ps.119:143.

"I will never forget Your commandments for by them You have given me life." Ps.119: 93,50; Prov.4:20-22. "The commandment of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul." Ps.19:7. "The words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit and they are life." John 6:63.

Lord, "I hope in your Word." Ps.119:81,114.

[This message has been edited by L.Picard (edited 05-03-2001).]

[jherbertthompson]

This will be my first post in this particular subject [The Latter Rain]...Mine will probably seem as "baby thoughts", please don't "spank" them to hard!

Re: Comment made today by M.A...
This may or may not be a little out of context as I understand the subject.  Relevant to the context one might begin by back-tracking; however, neither time nor space would allow a fully-thoughtout response.  Therefore I will start with Paragraph #37:  While I would endorse that from Sister White's perspective, those who hold to the Third Angel's Message would
[1] patiently wait for Jesus to return;
[2] would keep the commandments of God;
[3] and, would put their trust and faith in the righteousness of Jesus for their salvation.

I find it somewhat difficult to leave out the fact that; "the Loud Cry" is a message that we [The Remnant] must carry the message to those in "different communion's", that the true point of controversy will be [1] a message of "worship"; and, [2] the final test of the "Seventh-Day-Sabbath". This being my first post, I may be missing something?  However, after looking casually over the archives, I don't see any recent comment to this regard.

In the second thought which M.A. has brought out for our consideration.  Although I agree that the "Early Rain" did in fact begin at "Pentecost"; there is, (IMO) a direct implication to an "Early Rain" which, and again (IMO) began with the 1844 Advent Movement...The "Latter Rain" must necessarily follow, when is not yet clear.  However (IMHO) Both the "Early Rain" and the "Loud Cry" are in close relationship, one to the other.

Following a recent study of [1] The Remnant; [2] Daniel & Revelation; and, [3] Mrs. White's comments found in a number of resources available at this University Library [including the unabridged compilation of "Counsels for the Last Day's"; by, Leo R. and Bobbie Van Dolson] which by the way I hope are not a hieracy to those on this forum!

This study has brought me to a partial understanding Seventh-Day-Adventist must first of all have a knowledge of the "truth about God; His Character; and, His Government inorder that we may exemplify the "known, or present truth"; which, (IMHO) includes the fact that "Truth which is experienced" will bring "More exlicite Present Truth" to those willing to share and live by what they know.

This is more clearly brought out in our current SS Lesson, #5; "Joseph".  All have received "forgiveness", but can they be "trusted" as our neighbor's in heaven?  And, do we "personally" have "so settled an understanding of 'Truth' that we can remain 'unmoved' during the final deception(s) of satan?"  Which will, with out a doubt be the "Final Shaking".  Many will "leave the church" and will be replaced by other's of other communions...

Although this very closely resembles [to me anyway], a forensic [legalistic dogma].  The "Seal of God in Their [the saint's] forheads" will undoubtly be the "intelligent rendering of worship" to our Father God.  Not the robotic worship of a legalistic, conservative church...[I do hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes?]

May God bless all in our continued study of His Word and the implementation of that "Word" in our "personal lives".

Sincerely your brother in Christ,

[M.A. Crawford]

"Brother Crawford, I agree but what is the message of the righteousness by faith?"

In response to your question, Bro. Picard, Ellen G. White, in the book Testimonies to Ministers on pp. 91-93, has given us a comprehensive overview of the 1888 message and its meaning. This Testimonies quotation is presented in Dr. Knight's book on pp. 19-21 that is cited above, which reads:

"1. In a nutshell, what is the heart of the 1888 message?

"Probably the best summary of the meaning of the 1888 message appears in Testimonies to Ministers, pages 91 through 93. In that passage Ellen White notes that 'the Lord in His great mercy sent a most precious message to His people through Elders Waggoner and Jones. This message was to bring more prominently before the world the uplifted Saviour, the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. It presented justification through faith in the Surety; it invited the people to receive the righteousness of Christ, which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. Many had LOST SIGHT OF JESUS (Emphasis mine throughout). They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine person, His merits, and His changeless love for the human family. All power is given into His hands that He may dispense rich gifts unto men, imparting the priceless gift of His own righteousness to the helpless human agent. THIS IS THE MESSAGE that God commanded to be given to the world. It is the third angel's message, which is to be proclaimed with a loud voice, and attended with the outpouring of His Spirit in a large measure.

"'The uplifted Saviour is to appear in His efficacious works as the Lamb slain, sitting upon the throne, to dispense the priceless covenant blessings, the benefits He died to purchase for every soul who should believe on Him. John could not express that love in words; it was too deep, too broad; he calls upon the human family to behold it. Christ is pleading for the church in the heavenly courts above, pleading with those for whom He paid the redemption price of His own lifeblood. Centuries, ages, can never diminish the efficacy of this atoning sacrifice. The message of the gospel of His grace was to be given to the church in clear and distinct lines, that the world should no longer say that Seventh-day Adventists TALK THE LAW, the law, but do not teach or believe Christ.

"'The efficacy of the blood of Christ was to be presented to the people with freshness and power that their faith might lay hold upon its merits. As the high priest sprinkled the warm blood upon the mercy seat, while the fragrant cloud of incense ascended before God, so while we confess our sins and plead the efficacy of Christ's atoning blood, our prayers are to ascend to heaven, fragrant with the merits OF OUR SAVIOUR'S CHARACTER. Notwithstanding our unworthiness, we are ever to bear in mind that there is One that can take away sin and save the sinner. Every sin acknowledged before God with a contrite heart, He will remove. This faith is the life of the church. As the serpent was lifted up in the wilderness by Moses, and all that had been bitten by the fiery serpants were bidden to look and live, so also THE SON OF MAN must be lifted up, that "whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

"'Unless he makes it his business to behold the uplifted Saviour, and by faith to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus. Now it has been Satan's determined purpose to eclipse the view of Jesus and lead men to look to man, and trust to man, and be educated to expect help from man. For years the [Seventh-day Adventist] church has been LOOKING TO MAN and expecting much from man, but not looking to Jesus, in whom our hopes of eternal life are centered. Therefore God gave to His servants [Jones and Waggoner] a testimony that presented the truth AS IT IS IN JESUS, which is the third angel's message in clear, distinct lines.'

"...At the very least Ellen White was emphasizing the following points in the 'most precious message' of Waggoner and Jones:

"The Uplifted Saviour.

"Justification by faith in Jesus.

"The connection between the righteousness of Christ and obedience to God's commandments.

"The need for Adventism to focus on Jesus.

"That Christ's righteousness or righteousness by faith has an intimate relationship to the third's angel's message of Revelation 14:9-12.

"That Christ died in our place as an atonement for sin.

"That Jesus has special 'covenant blessings' for His children.

"That Adventists had been emphasizing the law but neglecting Jesus and the importance of faith in His sacrifice for us.

"That faith in the merits of the uplifted Saviour 'is the life of the church.'

"That Satan's aim has been to move the eyes of the church away from Jesus and His merits and to focus the church's theology on human effort.

"That God raised up Jones and Waggoner to redirect the gaze of Adventists to Jesus, to faith in His sacrifice and merits, and to the relationship between salvation by faith and the message of the third angel."

M.A.    

[jherbertthompson]

Okay, I'm new, so I will hopefully not get spanked to hard on this one...

It has always seemed to me that the 'crux' of the 1888 message was nothing else than the 'revealed message from God' in regard to 'Righteousness by Faith'...This message was delivered to that conference by Jones and Waggoner, and supported by Mrs. White.

The Father's of our then 'newly born' church chose, to ignore this message, and even ridiculed it.  I was working my way through II Corinthians this evening when I noticed chapter(s) 3&4.  Specifically, 3:5,6:  which reads in the RSV: [5] "Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God; [6] who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life..."

I would contend that from this stand-point, we are all to often 'focused on ourselves'; on our 'legal standing with God'; and quite often forget to blend the 'power of mercy and faith' in our expedience to proclaim the 'Gospel of Good News' to the world.  What do you think?

I'm going to back off of this one for a day or two in order to see in which direction this may go...It has been, to say the least, a most interesting and wonderfully fulfilling subject of study...I hope that other's will help me see this in perhaps a new and more 'Godly Light'.

Sincerely your brother in Christ,
The best vitamin for the Christian is 'B1'!

[L.Picard]

The most precious message: Through faith in the merits of the blood that was shed for us, we have access to the grace of God through His commandments and promises:

"For all the law is fulfilled in one Word, even in this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Gal.5:14. This commandment is "exceeding broad." Ps.119:96. And "His commandment is life everlasting." John 12:50. Righteousness is love and love is the light and the life of God. "The end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience and of faith enfeigned." 1 Tim.1:5.

"Therefore, all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them; for this is the law and the prophets." Matt.7:12. "For all the law and the prophets is fulfilled in one Word, even in this: Thy shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Gal.5:14. Truly "His commandment is," indeed, "exceeding broad." Ps.119:96. And "The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul." Ps.19:7. In other words, proceeding out of the mouth of God, this commandment imparts power, it begets life. It brings with it the very life of the Infinite One working in us both to will and to do according to the commandment, that our joy may be full, joy unspeakable and full of glory! Luke 1:38; 1 Peter 1:8.9.

Jesus says: "My son attend to My Words; Incline thine ear unto My sayings; let them not depart from your eyes; keep them in the midst of your heart, for they are life to all who find them and health to all their flesh." Prov.4:20-22. Nothing else can have such healing power. Nothing beside can impart the courage and the faith which give vital energy to the whole being. "I will never forget Your commandments for with them You have given me life." Ps.119:93.

The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts through the commandment (which is the voice of God speaking to the soul in promise) if it is allowed "to have free course" in us. "Pray that the Word of the Lord may have free course." 2 Thess.3:1. As we receive the Word into the heart by faith, not as the word of men but as it is in truth the Word of God, it effectually works in us that believe." 1 Thess.2:13. We are to say, Lord, "Be it unto me according to Thy word." Luke 1:38. That is faith, even "great faith," saith the Lord! Matt.8:6-10. And the righteousness of the commandment is fulfilled in us.

If we will "believe His commandments," (Ps.119:66), "being fully persuaded that what He has commanded, He is able to perform," (Rom.4:21) the Lord says, "My Word shall accomplish that which I please and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it," (Isaiah 55:11) and "It shall no more be delayed... and I will perform it, saith the Lord God." Ezekiel 12:25.

"Be it unto us according as You have said," O Lord! This is "The word of righteousness" (Ps.119:123) which we preach! "All Thy commandments are righteousness." Ps.119:172. This is "The Word of faith which we preached." Rom.10:8.

Lord, "I hope in Your Word." "Lord, remember the Word upon which Thou hast caused me to hope." Ps.119:114,49.

__________________
lpicard

[This message has been edited by L.Picard (edited 05-07-2001).]

[Richard Myers]

Welcome to TRO, Brother Herbert!   I have been blessed reading your posts in the various topics where you have posted.

I appreciate what you say in your last post here.  Righteousness by faith is the third angel's message in verity. It is THE message and it is what Ellen White has presented to the church and the world through her ministry. When I discovered 1888 from the writings of Wieland and Short in their report to the GC in the early 50s, I began to read Waggoner and Jones. I was very surprised to find that I already had heard the message in a more advanced form. I had been reading the Spirit of Prophecy with understanding. I could see the tendency of Waggoner and Jones to become unbalanced in their writings  and knew of their apostocy, so I set their books aside.

We must follow through with your statement and ask what is "righteousness by faith"? We have a topic here in the BOL forum, "Justification by Faith". There we may participate a discussion of "righteousness by faith" or "justification by faith". I like simplicity and understand this message to be simply the ability of God's grace to transform our character as we learn of His love and come to believe in His Word, by faith. This understanding does not stop short with a half surrendered heart, but rather a complete and full surrender of all that we are and have. We purchase the Pearl of Great Price.   What do you think?

Again, welcome to our fellowship!  

Richard

[jherbertthompson]

Thank you Richard!  I would like to hear from others as to the "time table" of the "refreshing"; "early & latter rain's"; "shaking"; "sealing"; and, what this might have to do with the "image of God; His nature, character, and government" which we are to portray to the world around us in a meaningful yet attractive way?

Thanks all for your comments...The great commission is to be "fisher's of men".  It is God's job to "clean the fish"...

[jherbertthompson]

Hello all!  Correct me if I'm wrong please...
By the time the "Latter Rain" comes, God's people [having the Three Angel's Message's] will already be "Sealed"?  Is it possible that this "Seal of God", which is now [perhaps even in the present tense; is this also a 'scary thought' for some?] found in "their foreheads"; is, for all intent, the intelligent obedience to ALL of God's Commandments?

So then, what is the obedience of the Father's Law of Love?  [1] The law of God, which is perfect holiness, is the only true standard of character.  And, that LOVE, is  expressed in obedience...I John 5:3 [last half expressly] says: "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: AND HIS COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT GRIEVOUS."  [2] This is "God's character"; and, the character of His government.  His "Law of Love" is based on "Freedom"...Freedom to examine the evidence(s) which He has ampily provided...To "reason for ourselves" wheather or not "God is 'telling the TRUTH'"; and make an intelligent "choice" as to "whom we will believe"...What do you think?  [3] and, the somewhat amazing part of this to me; is that any other way, no matter under what auspices it may fall, is without any doubt what-so-ever of the devil!  A bit harsh I may add; however, look at what this really 'says' about God?...Unlike those bearing the "mark of God"; who's faith is living, active, and working.  Which works by love and purifies the soul.  And, I believe, the faith which will be demanded from us by God...It is, on-the-other-hand the cold, harsh denunciatory, overbearing forensic burden which so many, unfortunately, wish to portray to this world...And, this is the same "lie" which satan has been telling the universe since the beginning...NOT a very good "picture of God"...Not at all the "Good News".  Is it?

So what is the "Good New's" regarding the "Latter Rain"; "Shaking"; "Sifting"; and the "Seal of God's People"?  Is it not that the "spotless robe of Christ's righteousness is placed upon the tired, tempted, and trodden down people of God who, by the renewal of their lives; through repentance and obedience to the "Law's of God" [all Ten of them] are found to be "Friends", and safe to take home? It is therefore a "matter of a heart change" which includes these people in the "Lamb's Book of Life"; enrolled amoung the faithful of all ages...Oh! That is the "GOOD NEWS", which we will be accountable to portray to the world in these last days!

This is one of my favorite subjects.  As it is for me a test as to how "willing" I am to be not only an "example" to other's.  Too be renewed, restored back into the "image of God" which was His original purpose for humanity...To be a "witness to the way God's Government is run"...A "vindication" of His character to all the onlooking universe!

Whatchsay?  May God bless all, and may we someday meet on the "Sea of Glass"!

Your sincere brother in Christ!  

 

[L.Picard]

Is this not the latter rain message? "Let those who have heard only traditions and human theories and maxims hear the Voice of Him whose Word can renew the soul unto everlasting life, for "His commandment is life everlasting." John 12:50; C.O.L.40.

God called the worlds into existence by His Word. "By the Word of the Lord were the heavens made." Ps.33:6. Before He spoke, there were no worlds. Once He spoke, there they were! "He calls those things which be not as though they were." Rom.4:17. We are naught. Gal.6:3. But He calls those things which be naught as though they were! "He calls those things which are naught." 1 Cor.1:28. He calls us from darkness, from nothingness, into His marvelous light by His Word which says to us: "Let the light of the glory of God shining in the face of Jesus Christ shine in the darkened void of your heart ," and it is so if we "believe His commandment." Ps.119:66.

This is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto us! 1 Peter 1:25. "We were once darkness but NOW (after hearing the Word of the Gospel and believing it) we are light in the Lord." 2 Cor.4:6; Eph.1:13; Ps.119:66; Eph.5:8.

He calls us unto Himself by His spoken Word. Those of us who believe are "the called" according to His commandment, according to His will, and the Holy Spirit is given to us. This is the light that was shining in the face of Jesus Christ, "the Spirit of glory and of God." 1 Peter 4:14; 2 Thess.2:14.

Those of us who respond by saying, "Be it done unto me according as You have commanded," the Word is allowed "to have free course" in us and it is done unto us according to the commandment! 2 Thess.3:1; 1 Thess.2:13.

Therefore, to them the Lord says, "Rise, shine, for thy light is come and the glory of the Lord has risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the peoples, but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and His glory shall be seen upon thee. And the nations shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising." Isaiah 60:1-3.

For "We have been called to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." 2 Thess.2:14. Did not Jesus say, "The glory (light of the glory of God) Thou hast given Me, I have given them." John 17:17. He gives us the light of God's glory, the Holy Spirit, by calling us out of darkness into His marvellous light. 1 Peter 2:9. He calls us by His Word. "He speaks and it is done; He commands and it stands fast." Ps.33:6,9. "He shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light and thy justice as the noonday." Ps.37:6. And "Your peace shall be like a river and your righteousness as the waves of the sea." Isaiah 48:18. "And the work of righteousness shall be peace and the effect of righteousness, quietness and assurance forever." Isaiah 32:17.

Lord, "Be it done unto us according as Thou hast said." This is to be our prayer for every commandment the Lord speaks. And prayer is the key in the hand of faith that opens the gates of righteousness making available to us all the unsearchable riches of Christ! All the resources of Heaven are at our disposal so that the Lord may finish the work and cut it short in righteousness.
"I hope in Thy Word." "I praise Thy Word." Ps.119:74,81,114,49; 56:4,10.

"The entrance of Thy Word giveth light." Ps.119:130. "Lord, remember the Word upon which Thou hast caused me to hope." Ps.119:49. "I will never forget Your commandments, for with them You have given me life." Ps.119:93. The light of Your life, the light of Your countenance, the light of Your glory, the Holy Spirit, the Highest Influence in the universe!

[This message has been edited by L.Picard (edited 05-09-2001).]

[jherbertthompson]

Brother Picard:  I apologize for my "ignorance" in regard to this, and many other subjects...However, could or would you please explain to me in what manner you last post brings to point regarding the Latter Rain?

I was able to take regard to one of your cites:  Christ's Object Lessons; Chapter 2; p.40.2.  Which say's to point: [1] Let the Bible "point" to the falablness of human traditions and theories; [2] Present the truth as it is in Jesus...Make plain the requirements of the Law and the Gospel...Present His self-sacrificing and self-denial...

This is truely the "revival of true godliness among God's people which Sister White prompted many times over...Our work by confession, humiliation, repentance, and earnest prayer, fulfilling the "conditions" of God's promises bring the Latter Rain...Yes?

Christ's life alone can be the "standard of both 'Righteousness' and 'Atonement' in this sense.  When we became - Christian's - we commenced in the war with God against satan.
The "Truth about God"; His Character; and, His way of government in ruling the universe; is relevant only as we have a "relationship" to the "Creator/Redeemer"...God does not want "robots", nor men who are mere "reflector's of other mens thoughts":  we must all use our capacities of "reason" and "knowledge of 'evidences' which are abundant"...

Let us be more than "professors of the faith".

If I have "steped on anyone's toes", I would challenge that person to "stand up and put on their 'walking shoes', and lets walk through this one together"...I am seeking the truth.

Blessing from your brother in Christ,

[Richard Myers]

Brother Herbert, I don't think that God's people will already be "sealed" when the Latter Rain begins to fall. To answer this it would be good to begin a study on The Seal of God, and what it is. After understanding this, it would be easier to make a statement on when it occurs.  

Richard

[jherbertthompson]

Brother Richard.    It is my understanding that the 'Seal of God in their foreheads' represents the intelligent, reasoning power of man and his 'free will choice' to follow after God; His form of government; and His requested way of worship...EGW says in several places I have been reading lately that men are to be thinker's, not mere reflector's of other men's thoughts...

When I became a SDA Christian some year and a half ago; I took the stand that if God could make my experience one as the apostle's, in as much as they were 'willing to die', some of them really horrible deaths.  Then I could accept a true conversion experience.  I did not which to 'carry a name' like Christian if I was not convenced that it was ultimately worth my life...

In the past eighteen months, God has provided me the opportunity to study a great deal more than probably most may.  This has included an early retirement on disability, and the opportunity to study at one of the larger SDA University campus'.

What I am getting around to say here is that 'after survaying the evidence'; I am totally and absolutely sure in my own mind that this is 'present truth'; and, that I want very much to be a 'humble and willing hand' in God's great final harvest.

Thank you for your comments and prayers.  Your brother in Christ.  

[L.Picard]

Someone asked how my post had anything to do with bringing the latter rain:

The Voice from Heaven at Sinai was heard in the giving of Ten exceedingly great and precious promises which were "ordained to life." Rom.7:10. God's "living oracles" (Acts 7:38) were proclaimed that the people might have life and have it more abundantly! John 10:10. This is the New Covenant Spirit, the bread that comes down from Heaven.

The Voice of God is the ministration of the Spirit to the faithful hearer and always will be. "Incline your ear and come to Me; Hear and your soul shall live." Is.55:3. It is an everlasting covenant for the Word of the Lord endures for ever. "His commandment is life everlasting." John 12:50.

The letter of the law is a ministration of condemnation and death. People promise to obey every commandment. They are urged by the letter of the law to perform. The letter makes one either a legalist or a liberal. A legalist who wears himself out a whole life time in his attempts to fulfill the law's requirements. A liberal who once was a legalist but has finally given up trying to obey the law. He has come to the conclusion that it cannot be done. Just believe, he says. But his faith is a spurious one too.

What both need to realize is that the law was first spoken at Sinai, not written. The spoken law came before the written law. This it to show that the New came before the Old. Spoken, it is a ministration of the Spirit, converting the soul. It is always refreshing. "Then I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean." Ezekiel 36:25.

"The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul." Ps.19:7. Obviously, the Psalmist is referring to the spoken law here. "Oh how I love the law of Thy mouth." The spoken law imparts power, it begets life! It transforms the nature and re-creates the soul in the image of God! Ps.119:93,50.

The Lord says, "Choose ye this day; I have put before you life and death, blessing and cursing." The "living oracles" proceeding out of the mouth of God are a ministration of life to all who find them and health to all their flesh, health-giving, life-giving joy, joy in the Holy Spirit, bringing all other blessings in its train!

The written law brings death and curses. "The letter kills." Isaiah 28:13-15. Which shall it be? The Voice or the letter? Me and my house we will choose life and blessings for ever more. We choose to hear the Voice of Him whose Word can renew the soul unto everlasting life! We choose the Spirit! John 6:63.

The Scriptures are God breathed! They breath the Spirit upon all and unto all them that believe!  

[This message has been edited by L.Picard (edited 05-17-2001).]

[Richard Myers]

Brother Herbert, praise God for your understanding and your desire to serve Jesus with the whole heart. You will not be disappointed.  

Yes,  I also understand the seal of God to be  placed upon those who have chosen to live and die for Christ and who have developed a character which shall not be moved. This character recognizes the great need of Christ continually to do any good thing.

The Latter Rain will help to settle the 144,000 into the truth in a way that they cannot be moved. When probation closes, characters are fixed either for good or for evil. Jesus leaves the heavenly sanctuary never more to forgive sin. The Holy Spirit still gives power, but will not forgive sin. Man stands before God without an intercessor.  The Latter Rain has imparted the truth of the righteousness of Christ and it has taken hold in the heart of man.  

In His love and grace,    Richard