Author Topic: Romans 7 and 8  (Read 100385 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 38714
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Romans 7 and 8
« on: February 04, 2000, 08:03:00 PM »
A correct understanding of these verses will be a great help in seeing the gospel of Jesus Christ. Why is there such a need to correctly understand these verses? They have been wrested in the teachings of many within the church.

It is a blessing to be able to take in context these verses and clearly understand that Paul was expressing the victory one obtains when filled with the Holy Spirit and the torment one feels when conviction of the law comes home to the heart, by the Holy Spirit, but no surrender of the will is made.

Let us begin with verse 7:5. "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death." Paul is talking about when we were lost without a Saviour. He says that the acts of sin, which were revealed by the law of God, did work through our flesh to bring us under the condemnation of broken law.

Any comments before continuing?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Laurie Mosher

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1948
  • There is a place of quiet rest
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2000, 05:18:00 AM »
  Happy Sabbath to you all!!

  Richard, you certainly picked an interesting topic.I have in my library a little book called "Bible Studies on the Book of Romans "by E.J.Waggoner.

  Here is one excerpt that caught my eye.

"What is the difference between the would-be Christian, who knows the law, but does not keep it, and the worlding who does not keep the law, and does not acknowledge that it is good?
 Simply this: We are unwilling slaves, and they are willing slaves. We are all the time distracted and sorrowful, and getting nothing out of life at all, while the worlding does not worry himself in the least." p.54

"If one is going to sin, is it not better to be the worlding, who does not know there is such a thing as liberty, than to be the man who knows that there is a liberty, but cannot get it? If it has got to be slavery, if we must live in the sins of the world, then it is better to be in the world, partaking of its pleasures, then to be in miserable bondage, and have no hope of a life to come."
Ibid.

  Kind of sums it up. doesn't it.

  Of course there is a solution, but it can keep.

 Keep "the" faith
   Br. Laurie  :0)

Keep "the" Faith,  Brother Laurie

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 38714
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2000, 06:39:00 AM »
Amen, Brother Laurie. Happy Sabbath to you and your family!

Thank you for sharing. It is so true. A knowledge of the law does not bring peace, but condemnation. The law has no power to save. Salvation  comes through Jesus Christ as do all good gifts.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 38714
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2000, 06:32:00 AM »
Romans 7:6    "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."  Now, after we receive Jesus Christ as our Saviour, we are delivered from the bondage of the law, delivered from the condemnation of the law; that, now having the law of love written upon our hearts we follow the spirit of the law, not just the letter while disobeying it's Spirit.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

charlene

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 307
    • http://
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2000, 07:11:00 AM »
If we keep our life hidden in His life, He will keep us from falling. And we live under grace. We come under the condemnation of the law, only if we break the law, if we remove our eyes from Christ, we follow self [sin].

Praise God we have the precious promises that He is able to present us faultless before His Father if we will but let Him live His life in us.

thank you jesus,
charlene


charlene

charlene

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 307
    • http://
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2000, 07:26:00 AM »
good morning Laurie,

I had a conversation with some one that was speculating on 'what was going to happen with this world, there is so much crime."

I commented that in the bible, God told us exactly what was going to happen and I asked if they would like to study so they would know.

"NO!, I don't want to know."  was the reply. I think this is 'wilful ignorance' and I believe God holds us responsible for what we could have known, but chose not to learn.

However, there are those who have had no opportunity to learn and have lived up to all the light they had, and were faithful even though they were commiting 'unknown sins.'

Does this sound right? I am still learning.

God Bless,
charlene

charlene

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 38714
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2000, 06:40:00 PM »
Sister Charlene, if I might interject while waiting for Brother Laurie. On judgment day none will be condemned because the innocently believed a lie or unknowingly cherished error, but because they did not avail themselves of the opportunity to know truth. It is not a matter of eternal life, for that requires the new birth. It is the torture of known guilt that eats away at the soul. This is more painful to those that have the law and break it than to those who have not known the law and break it.

Willful ignorance is known to be such and with it comes the guilt. Does this bring us into harmony? :)
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

charlene

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 307
    • http://
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2000, 07:43:00 AM »
Yes, we are in harmony.  I have some quotes that say much better than I, what we are saying. I think the term 'sinful neglect' is very revealing.
The Great Controversy -PG- 313
    At the time of Christ's first advent the priests and scribes of the Holy City, to whom were entrusted the oracles of God, might have discerned the signs of the times and proclaimed the coming of the Promised One. The prophecy of Micah designated His birthplace; Daniel specified the time of His advent. Micah 5:2; Daniel 9:25. God committed these prophecies to the Jewish leaders; they were without excuse if they did not know and declare to the people that the Messiah's coming was at hand. Their  ignorance was the result of sinful neglect. The Jews were building monuments for the slain prophets of God, while by their deference to the great men of earth they were paying homage to the servants of Satan. Absorbed in their ambitious strife for place and power among men, they lost sight of the divine honors proffered them by the King of heaven."

also


Advent Review and Sabbath Herald  -DT- 04-25-93 - Accountability for Light
-PR- 10
It is plainly stated in the Scriptures that if the whole congregation sin through ignorance, the priests shall make an atonement for the sins when they are made apparent, and the sin of ignorance shall be forgiven. The work of Jesus is to forgive the sins of the past, but if light comes from heaven to the church, and men refuse the light because its acceptance involves a cross, then they stand guilty before God; for they have made it manifest that
they love the world more than they love Christ and the truth. Those who have an opportunity to hear the truth, and yet take no pains to hear or understand it, thinking that if they do not hear, they will not be accountable, will be judged guilty before God the same as if they had heard and rejected. There will be no excuse for those who choose to go in error when they might understand what is truth. In his sufferings and death Jesus has made atonement for all sins of ignorance, but there is no provision made for wilful blindness. Those who have hid their eyes from the truth lest they should be convinced, must exercise repentance toward God for the transgression of his law, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ, that their sins of ignorance in the transgression of the Sabbath may be forgiven."

That surely makes it clear. Let's study God's word, and allow the Holy Spirit to convict and convert. God is ready to give His precious Gifts.  2Peter 4: and onward

In His Love
charlene


charlene

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 38714
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2000, 01:16:00 PM »
Romans 7:7

"What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

What shall we say, is the law sin? GOD FORBID!  NO, NO, NO! I would not have known what sin was if it was not for the law. I would not have known lust, except the law, the ten commandments, says, "Thou shalt not covet."
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Laurie Mosher

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1948
  • There is a place of quiet rest
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2000, 03:04:00 PM »
  Hello "family"!

  Acts 17:30 "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but NOW commandeth all men (mankind) everywhere to repent."

  This is an amazing quotation, for "perhaps at one time, ignorance was an excuse" Not any more! In fact, if opportunity presents itself, and people do not take advantage of the opportunity, they are held responsible. They will be guilty.

  I had an interesting conversation  yesterday with the post office person (26 yrs old). She, (Sue) said, "Laurie, what do you think will happen in this year 2000?" Sue is usually the one that mails my video parcels.

  I said "Keep an eye on the Roman papacy". She then asked if I had any Biblical data...I directed her to Daniel chs 7,11, and Rev 13, and finally Dan 12:1-2  concerning the deliverance of God's people...showing her that there is NO secret rapture, but that God will step in after the time of trouble, and deliver His people.

  Sue then said, before or after?  I then directed her to Ps 23..."Yea, tho I walk thru the shadow of death, thou art with me"...and during the time of trouble God is there with us. I then told her to write down Psalm 50:3 "Our God shall come and not keep silent", and 1 Thess 4:16-17 When the Lord comes it is so LOUD that even the dead are awakened... Sue said, "how do you remember these texts?" I assured her that only by asking for Divine help, study, meditation, and sharing... Sue is open for more study...She remarked that she wanted to know more, because she did not want to be held accountable for what she DID NOT know.

  Pray for Susan, and me too. I need the grace and love that Richard talks about, so that Jesus can reach her, by using me.

  Br. Laurie

Keep "the" Faith,  Brother Laurie

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 38714
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2000, 08:35:00 PM »
Those faithful seekers of truth in the world will find God as they search with all the heart for Him. Such a blessing to find them, Brother Laurie. We will add Susan to our prayer list. Is she a Christian already, or do we pray for her conversion?

A question bearing on this subject: Was the rich young ruler innocent or guilty before he spoke with Jesus?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 38714
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2000, 08:40:00 PM »
Romans Chapter Seven (part 1 of 2)

               7:5 "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were
               by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit
               unto death."

               When we were unconverted, sin, which is known by the law, was
               done by our flesh which brings us under the condemnation of the
               broken law.

               7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein
               we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in
               the oldness of the letter."

               Now we delivered from the bondage of the law (the law cannot
               save, only condemn),being spiritually dead in that bondage (wages
               of sin is death); that NOW being converted we should serve in the
               (HOLY) Spirit, and not in outward appearance only (whited sepulchar).

               7:7 "What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid.Nay, I had
               not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the
               law had said, Thou shalt not covet."


               Shall we say the law is wrong? God forbid!!
               I would not have known I was sinning and lost and condemned if it
               was not for the law: I would not have known I was lusting if I did
               not know the law that says, thou shalt not covet.

               7:8 "But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all
               manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was
               dead."

               Sin (transgression of the law), now that the law is known, revealed
               all manner of evil in me. Before I knew the law, I did not know sin.

               7:9 "For I was alive without the law once: but when the
               commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

               I did not know I was under condemnation (death sentence) without
               a knowledge of the depth of the law: but when I found out about the
               depth of the law, that it reaches to the intents of the heart, then I
               became guilty and saw myself spiritually dead (the law slayed me).

               7:10 "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to
               be unto death."

               And the commandments which are Holy and just, and given for our
               good, I found to cause my spiritual death (under the condemnation
               of the bronken law).

               Poor Saul, he is really confused. He was brought under condemnation
               by the law of God and knows not how to get out from under the
               death sentence. He, like most other Pharisees, prided themselves in
               keeping the law, so it was quite a shock to him to find himself a law
               breaker. The Holy Spirit began to convince him of his sins after he
               participated in the stoning of Stephen.

               7:11 "For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me,
               and by it slew me."

               For breaking the commandments that I then had knowledge of, I
               came under condemnation. I knew I was walking after the flesh.

               7:12 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and
               just, and good."

               I see the law is good.

               7:13 "Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid.
               But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which
               is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding
               sinful."

               Was the good law causing me to die? God forbid!!! The
               commandments showed me I was under condemnation and then I
               could see the great evil of breaking the commandments.

               7:14 "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold
               under sin."

               We know the Ten Commandments are of God, but I am unholy, and
               cannot help but sin. I am a slave to sin and cannot help myself. I
               cannot stop sinning. I have no good fruit in my life. I manifest the
               works of the flesh for I am carnal, of the flesh.

               7:15 "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not;
               but what I hate, that do I."

               Really, I cannot do good even though I really want to. I want to quit
               stealing, but I cannot. I want to love my neighbor, but I cannot. I
               hate taking the Lord's name in vain, but I do it.

Paul was not converted, but he was learning of his need of a Saviour. Where are we today? Do we find ourselves in this situation, not being able to quit sinning? Not knowing how to walk in the Spirit? There is a solution to the problem. Paul will reveal the solution as we continue listening to his testimony.

In His love and grace,     Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 38714
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2000, 12:09:00 PM »
7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law
              that it is good."

              If I go 65 in a 55mph zone and say I don't really want to speed, I
              acknowledge that the law is a good one and do not want to do
              away with it.

              7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in
              me."

              So even though I don't want to sin (I see it is wrong) I still do it
              because my mind is under the control of my flesh.

              7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good
              thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that
              which is good I find not."

              Even though I want to obey God, I do not know how. I keep
              sinning. I lie, I steal, I cheat, I break the seventh commandment. I
              can not keep the law of God, BUT I want to Keep the law of God.

              7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would
              not, that I do."

              I want to keep the commandments, but I continually break the
              commandments.

              7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin
              that dwelleth in me."

              Since I do that which I do not want to do, it is not me, but my
              flesh that is sinful. I really want to do good, but my flesh just
              keeps sinning.

              7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present
              with me."

              I see a principle that even though I profess to be an Israelite, I am
              not, I am evil. I do want to be a son of Abraham, but I am not
              faithful as he was. I live as did Solomon when he fell.

              7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:"

              I love the law of God!!!

              7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law
              of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of
              sin which is in my members."

              But, I see another principle in my flesh warring against the law of
              my mind, and bringing me into captivity to sin. I cannot resist sin. I cannot gain the victory over even "little" sins.

              7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the
              body of this death?

              O wretched sinner that I am! Israel's One Great God cannot keep
              me from sinning! I cannot keep myself from sinning! WHO, WHO,
              WHO..... can deliver me from myself???? Is there not anyone that
              can save me? I am condemned and lost.......

              7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the
              mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the
              law of sin."

              I have found the answer to my question! I now know "Who". I
              have found a Saviour who I thought was an imposter and whos
              disciples I persecuted. I did not understand that Jesus was the
              Lamb of God. I now see why Abraham was asked to sacrifice his
              son, for God did sacrifice His Son to pay the price for my sins. He
              has come and delivered me from the law of sin and death. I now
              can keep the law of God, I can do all things through Christ Jesus
              who strengthens me. If I cease to look unto Jesus for grace, I
              then have no power to do good and I then, in my flesh serve the
              law of sin.

              In his love and grace, Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 38714
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2000, 06:04:00 PM »
Romans 8:1   "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

My first "Bible" was a NIV and the common quote of Romans 8:1 is what is found in that "Bible".  It is "evangelical" and is used to mislead. Here is the quote from the NIV: "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,"

It is true there is no condemnation to them that are "in Christ Jesus", but the KJV goes on and explains how you can know you are in Christ Jesus. "....who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

There has been a concerted effort to dismiss this Bible doctrine, but it is clear that the  wages of sin is death and that those who are in Christ Jesus, do not "walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit."  How do you see it?  Is this not a common teaching within the church that there is no condemnation to those "in Christ" who walk after the flesh (after all, no one is perfect).  Is this not contrary to what Romans 8:1 is saying?

There is no condemnation, because there is no sin that has not been confessed that is known. In Christ the Christian is a partaker of the divine nature and is granted grace (power) to overcome. "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."  Philippians 4:13.

This does not mean that the Christian will not fall, but rather that in Christ He walks in the light as He is in the light.

Richard  

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 38714
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2000, 05:57:00 PM »
 Romans  8:2  "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

We have seen a shift now in the last verse of Romans 7 and the first two verses in Romans 8. Where Paul in Romans 7 was talking about his pre-conversion experience where he did not know he needed a Saviour, he now is discussing the "converted" Paul with a Saviour in His heart. He began Romans 8 by rejoicing that he no longer is under the condemnation he had been under because he is now able to keep the law, walking in the Spirit.  Verse two may be contrasted with verse 23 in chapter 7.  Remember Paul was saying he had been brought into "captivity to the law of sin."  Now in chapter 8, after his conversion, he has been made "free from the law of sin and death."

When studied under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit this truth can clearly be seen. Even so, God does not rest this presentation, but inspired the apostle to continue so there would be no excuse for misunderstanding what Jesus in the heart does for the sinner.

As we continue in Romans 8 we shall see this understanding confirmed again and again. And, while we move forward in chapter 8, you might  review backwards too, and see what the apostle says in chapters 5 and 6 in regards to sinning.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

M.A. Crawford

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1666
    • http://
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2000, 05:07:00 PM »
A quick comment on the law to add to what has already been said.

Once upon eternity, there was no need for laws because all of the inhabitants of the entire universe lived by "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." What God asked of His creation was done without hesitation and without reservation.

Ellen White tells us that sin began with him who was next to Christ. The Bible identifies this being as Lucifer (the devil) who "was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him..." (John 8:44). It was he who had the boldness without shame to question God and poison the minds of one third of the heavenly angelic host causing them to follow him in rebellion against the Most High. We all know the rest of the story.

My point is laws exist BECAUSE OF SIN. The Bible tells us: "I had not known sin, but by the law;.." (Romans 7:7). Romans 3:20 reads: "By the law is the knowledge of sin." In other words, "God's law is like a mirror (James 1:23-25). It points out wrongdoing in my life as a mirror points out dirt on my face. The only posible way for a person to know he is sinning is for him to carefully check his life by the mirror of God's law..." (AFBSG, "You Are Responsible," p. 3).

Laws do not save. What they do is described above. They point us to our need for a Savior. ONLY JESUS SAVES! "Neither is there salvation in any other..." (Acts 4:12).

One day in the not too distant future when sin and sinners are no more, God will once again have a universe where His Word will reign supreme and will be followed without hesitation or reservation. May God hasten that day according to His Will.

M.A.

M.A.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 38714
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2000, 05:47:00 PM »
Amen, Brother Crawford.   :)

Just as Paul said in Romans 7:10 "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death."  When the knowledge of the depth of the law came home to his mind, he saw he was under the condemnation of the broken law. He had no Saviour then to deliver him from the guilt or the power of sin.  The first step in being converted is to see our need of help. We must see we are under the condemnation of the broken law. Many today do not see themselves condemned by having broken the law. Before we have need of  a physician we must see ourselves sick.

Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 38714
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2001, 08:28:00 AM »
Romans  8:3,4.  "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

This text  is simple and easy to understand if we do not strive against it. If we desire to support a false gospel, then we must change what it says, but if we will allow the truth into our hearts we shall see the gospel of Jesus Christ. These verses support our understading of Romans 7.

The law of God does not save, it condemns all who break it. BUT, not all need to be under it's condemnation. Those who walk after the Spirit of God, not after their flesh, will not be under condemnation. Those who break the law of God, walking according to the flesh, will be under condemnation of the broken law.  

"God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh..." Jesus took upon Himself the nature of fallen man. "...and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh." Jesus put to death sin while living in the likeness of "sinful flesh". He showed that we can overcome sin while living in sinful flesh. Through the power of the Holy Spirit living in us we may have power to overcome sin. This is spoken of as "walking after the Spirit."

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 38714
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2001, 09:08:00 AM »
Romans 8:5

I will not comment on this verse. The Holy Spirit will show all that it needs no interpretation. It is in plain English.

"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."

It is important to put this verse with the verses we have been studying and see that it supports what has been said up to this point. We are one or the other, but not both. Verse six will give further support to this understanding.  :)

Richard

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

James Saptenno

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 86
    • http://
Re: Romans 7 and 8
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2001, 07:10:00 AM »
Brother Richard.

It has been a long time ago since my last post here, it’s only because I have lost some data’s from my PC because of virus, and my favorites was also damaged.

I want to comment on Romans 8:1.
I think KJV translate it wrong, it should have been :” There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are “in Christ Jesus.” (see other translation)
By adding “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit” a contradiction will arise, which is that our walking after the Spirit which saved us, our life style which saved us. IOW we are saved by our works.

Compare with this!
Now we know that what things so ever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Why? Because all are under sin, no one is righteous…...there is none that doeth good, no, not one - Romans 3:9-12). There fore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested………even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe; for there is no difference; For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is “in Christ Jesus.” (Romans 3:19-24).

“In Christ” a believer have his freedom, freedom of sin and it condemnations. In Christ a believer have his justification and redemption, not in ‘walking after the Spirit.”

In His love

James S.