Author Topic: False Christs  (Read 7801 times)

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Mimi

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2012, 04:53:50 PM »
Yes, I saw that, too, ejc, and it describes the excitement he creates causing a false revival among the fallen churches.
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colporteur

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2012, 05:35:03 PM »
On my EGW CDRom, and if you don't have the cdrom you can do this at the whiteestate.org website, searching in the writings of Mrs. White, I typed in quotes "angel of light" and after the quote the word deceive.

It seems very evident to me that Satan appears as an angel of light to deceive during the small time of trouble, before the close of probation.  In one place Mrs. White states that if possible he will deceive the very elect.  If probation is closed and God's people are sealed, then where is the danger for God's elect?  If Satan is to come after probation closes, and the lost are lost and the saved are saved, then what's the big deal?

That's the way I have seen it both logically and from inspiration. I believe it makes the most sence. However, for the sake of discussion and from another point of view it depends on when the Lord gives Satan that liberty. Satan is given different liberties at different times and some things he is never allowed to do such as coming in the sky as Christ. I don't even like to say this but if I were the devil I think I would come at a key time during the little time of trouble perhaps just before the end of it. However, Satan may or may not have that choice. Secondly, he does not believe God and holds out the hope that he can indeed deceive the very elect or else blot them from the earth. While he is cunning,sly, and deceptive he is not entirely rational. If he were he would just throw in the towel and suffer just a little bit less in the lake of fire. I still believe at this point that Satan will appear before the close of probation however certainly none of us are infallible. I was just voicing some thoughts that seem to make some sense from the other point of view.
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Richard Myers

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2012, 08:13:31 AM »
In my devotions this morning, I read The Time of Trouble in The Great Controversy. There it is made abundantly clear that the impersonation of Christ is after probation closes. CP and ej, I understand why you think it must be before, but you fail to understand that the great "testing time" is after probation closes. There is a purpose for the suffering of the saints after probation closes, otherwise they would not. God's ways are good and He never causes a saint to suffer needlessly.  But, suffer they will.  And, it is part of the controversy to have the great deception come to its height after probation closes. The "time of trouble" is not before, but after probation closes and it serves a very important purpose. It is a "day of trial" for God's children.  All may understand by reading this chapter.
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colporteur

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2012, 05:25:06 PM »
  You mean Satan will "personate" Christ. That is the word she uses.  It is most clear that this chapter is not referring only to events that transpire after probation closes. For instance notice the paragrah headings leading up to the paragraph on Satan personating Christ.

Pagse  621-624.

" Those who exercise  but little faith now etc..."

" We should now aquaint ourselves with God by proving His promisies."

" The time of trouble such as never was, is soon to open upon us, etc..."

"Now, while our Great high Priest is making the atonement for us."

"Fearful sights of a supernatural character will soon be revealed  in the heavens etc..."

" As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ."
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colporteur

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2012, 05:45:08 PM »
My point is of course that though the chapter is entitled  " The Time of Trouble",  Mrs. White transitions from the present through the time of trouble.  I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that Satan could begin personating Christ some time during the Sundaly law period before the plagues and continue doing so in the Time of Trouble. We are told that he will appear more than once. We are not told the time span of his appearings. I think we have tended to think his personatings will be in a very short time span but there is no reason that I can see from Inspiration that this must all happen within a few hours or days. We are not told how long or how man times he will appear.

We will soon see. 
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colporteur

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2012, 05:27:30 AM »
In my devotions this morning, I read The Time of Trouble in The Great Controversy. There it is made abundantly clear that the impersonation of Christ is after probation closes. CP and ej, I understand why you think it must be before, but you fail to understand that the great "testing time" is after probation closes. There is a purpose for the suffering of the saints after probation closes, otherwise they would not. God's ways are good and He never causes a saint to suffer needlessly.  But, suffer they will.  And, it is part of the controversy to have the great deception come to its height after probation closes. The "time of trouble" is not before, but after probation closes and it serves a very important purpose. It is a "day of trial" for God's children.  All may understand by reading this chapter.

The 144,000 will suffer much during the Time of Trouble irrespective of when Satan personates Christ. I'm wondering how they would suffer more if that personation was after probation closes. Their primary suffering is not because Satan appears but because they see so little good in their past lives, and because they wonder if somehow some sin has not been repented of and therefore they would not fully reflect the character of God. While they fear the death decree this is secondary. Already many many have been mayrtered before them during the Sunday Law period before probation closes. Like the three Hebrews they have already set their minds to suffer death if need be. This is not the principle cause of suffering.

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2012, 07:17:19 AM »
cp, I am not going by the chapter title.  I read the whole chapter in context, not looking for an answer to our question. The point being made is that there are reasons why great tests come to the 144,000.  The test for the close of probation is not the only time of great trial.
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Mimi

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2012, 08:59:35 AM »
Satan hears the saints crying for deliverance.


The fifth plague begins at the seat of the beast.

Rev 16:10  And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11  And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.


They are still feeling the effects of the preceding plagues.

Quote from: Sybil's emphasis
Re: the timing of Satan's personation of Christ. It has been my understanding, too, that it is to happen prior to the close of probation simply for the "convincing effect" on those undecided; however, there is a statement that caught my eye that appears to have his counterfeit second coming while the saints are crying for deliverance in the great time of trouble:

One effort more, and then Satan's last device is employed. He hears the unceasing cry for Christ to come, for Christ to deliver them [saints]. This last strategy is to personate Christ, and make them think their prayers are answered.--Ms 16, 1884.

We can assume Jesus spoke of these things chronologically in Matthew 24. If that is the case, it appears Satan's personation will happen after probation closes. What say you?

Mat 24:7  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8  All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Great time of trouble such as never was.

Mat 24:23  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25  Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

colporteur

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2012, 10:45:27 AM »
Sybil;

I think your SOP quote is more convincing than the TOT breaking point in Matthew 24, that is "if his last device" is in the Time of Trouble. The chapter break regarding the TOT could be between verse 26 and 27.

I will take a closer look at the SOP and the surrounding statements.
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colporteur

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2012, 11:54:32 AM »
Sybil;

It appears as you have suggested in the SOP quote you posted.

What do you think about the chronology of the following.

" Satan Wll Be Deified"

In this age antichrist will appear as the true Christ, and then the law of God will be fully made void in the nations of our world. Rebellion against God's holy law will be fully ripe. But the true leader of all this rebellion is Satan clothed as an angel of light. Men will be deceived and will exalt him to the place of God, and deify him. But Omnipotence will interpose, and to the apostate churches that unite in the exaltation of Satan, come in one day, death, and mourning and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judges her." TM 62 1893.
   

Would you say that this quote is miss titled and the anti christ spoken of here is not Satan but the papacy or that "Satan Deified" is not necessarily Satan personating ?
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Mimi

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2012, 02:01:43 PM »
I would have to study it further but off the top of my head, I'd say it is a separate event. And I have learned to pay no attention to the supplied titles the Estate added to EGW's work.

We know there will be signs and wonders that will bring about a false revival among the fallen churches that will cause people to believe God is with them - miracles, healings, and who knows what else. Spirit of the dead will abound and at some point the false Christ will appear saying he changed the seventh-day Sabbath to Sunday. That appears to be before the close of probation and could affect change in the hearts of those to rush from all over the world to see him; however, the quote I gave earlier is his last ditch effort to hurt us who will be crying for deliverance. That is the personation I believe we are speaking of and cannot be anything else but a super short period before Christ himself comes in the clouds. It is obviously post probation and while I believe Matthew 24 is chronological, then the timing is nothing but perfect.

 
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Mimi

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2012, 02:20:02 PM »
Sybil;

I think your SOP quote is more convincing than the TOT breaking point in Matthew 24, that is "if his last device" is in the Time of Trouble. The chapter break regarding the TOT could be between verse 26 and 27.


It could be.
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Carla Hepker

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2012, 03:31:53 PM »

We can assume Jesus spoke of these things chronologically in Matthew 24. If that is the case, it appears Satan's personation will happen after probation closes. What say you?

Mat 24:7  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8  All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Great time of trouble such as never was.

Mat 24:23  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25  Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.



I do not think that you can take these verses chronologically. For one thing, Jesus is talking about two different events. And some of the things apply to both events.

The tribulation spoken of in verse 22, that is shortened for the elect's sake, is the persecution that took place during the dark ages. After that tribulation, it says in verse 29, the sun was darkened, and the moon did not give her light, and the stars fell.

From the destruction of Jerusalem, Christ passed on rapidly to the greater event, the last link in the chain of this earth's history,--the coming of the Son of God in majesty and glory. Between these two events, there lay open to Christ's view long centuries of darkness, centuries for His church marked with blood and tears and agony. Upon these scenes His disciples could not then endure to look, and Jesus passed them by with a brief mention. "Then shall be great tribulation," He said, "such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." For more than a thousand years such persecution as the world had never before known was to come upon Christ's followers. Millions upon millions of His faithful witnesses were to be slain. Had not God's hand been stretched out to preserve His people, all would have perished. "But for the elect's sake," He said, "those days shall be shortened."  {DA 630.5}
     Now, in unmistakable language, our Lord speaks of His second coming, and He gives warning of dangers to precede His advent to the world. "If any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth: behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." As one of the signs of Jerusalem's destruction, Christ had said, "Many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." False prophets did rise, deceiving the people, and leading great numbers into the desert. Magicians and sorcerers, claiming miraculous power, drew the people after them into the mountain solitudes. But this prophecy was spoken also for the last days. This sign is given as a sign of the second advent. Even now false christs and false prophets are showing signs and wonders to seduce His disciples. Do we not hear the cry, "Behold, He is in the desert"? Have not thousands gone forth into the desert, hoping to find Christ? And from thousands of gatherings where men profess to hold communion with departed spirits is not the call now heard, "Behold, He is in the secret chambers"? This is the very claim that spiritism puts forth. But what says Christ? "Believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."  {DA 631.1}
     The Saviour gives signs of His coming, and more than this, He fixes the time when the first of these signs shall appear: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."  {DA 631.2}
     At the close of the great papal persecution, Christ declared, the sun should be darkened, and the moon should not give her light. Next, the stars should fall from heaven. And He says, "Learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that He is near, even at the doors." Matt. 24:32, 33, margin.  {DA 632.1}


Notice that Jesus passed over the events of that time by just saying that there would be great tribulation.

Then does not always have to indicate a progression of time, as in "after that". It could also indicate "at that time" - what ever time is being discussed in the verse.

Revelation 11:7 also supports this where it says And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

The persecution of the church did not continue throughout the entire period of the 1260 years. God in mercy to his people cut short the time of their fiery trial. In foretelling the "great tribulation" to befall the church, the Saviour said, "Except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." [MATT. 24:22.] Through the influence of the Reformation, the persecution was brought to an end prior to 1798. {GC 267}

So, based on the Desire of Ages and the Great Controversy, verses 23 - 29 happen after 1798. And the Great Tribulation referred to here in Matthew 24:21 and 22 has already taken place.

Mimi

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2012, 07:24:49 PM »
Thanks, Carla. I will go back over it.
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colporteur

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2012, 04:38:04 PM »
One effort more, and then Satan's last device is employed. He hears the unceasing cry for Christ to come, for Christ to deliver them [saints]. This last strategy is to personate Christ, and make them think their prayers are answered.--Ms 16, 1884.[/size]


Notice this quote too. 
" The last great delusion is soon to open before us. Antichrist is to perform his marvelous works in out sight. So closely will the counterfeit resemble the true that it will be impossible to distinguish between them accept by the holy Scriptures..... " GC p. 593 1911


And yet here is another  " The very last deception of Satan will be  to make of none effect the Testimony of the Spirit of God. " Where there is no vision, the people perish." Proverbs 29:18. Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies to unsettle, the confidence of God's remnant people in the true testimonies."  I SM 41 1890


I do not believe there is a contradiction there. What do you think of two or three different events all being the last tricks of Satan, "Satan's last device/ last strategy", " the last great delusion",  "the very last deception".  Are some of these at different times or are they all incorporated together. I have not come to a conclusion yet and just wonder what others think.
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colporteur

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2018, 07:42:56 AM »
What are your studied thoughts about when Satan will personate Christ, before or after the close of probation ? Could it be that since the devil will personae Christ multiple times that it may happen before and after probation closes both ?
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thx4mercy

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2018, 09:25:28 AM »
when Satan will personate Christ, before or after the close of probation ?

Doesn't seem that it would serve any purpose after probation closes.

Wally

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2018, 05:04:12 PM »
I believe he will do it before the close of probation, because that will be the biggest deception, and only those who have a love of the truth and have fortified their minds with the truths of the Bible will avoid deception. But that doesn't mean he disappears after the close of probation, since he doesn't know when probation closes, and will want to egg is followers on in his attempt to destroy God's people.  I think his deception will continue until the very end.
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Glen McCluskey

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2018, 07:09:20 PM »
What are your studied thoughts about when Satan will personate Christ, before or after the close of probation ? Could it be that since the devil will personae Christ multiple times that it may happen before and after probation closes both ?

The SOP says that Satan's personation of Christ occurs after the close of probation.  Note the first and last paragraphs in the quote below.

The same can be derived from the GC discussion.  The chapter "The Time of Trouble" starts at GC 613, and the first paragraphs make clear that probation has closed at this point.  Then GC 624 talks about Satan's personation of Christ.

Even though probation has closed, this event is still a test for God's people, because the idea that they will not yield to Satan during this time is only theoretical, until the time of trouble actually occurs and they are put to the test.

Beyond this, there are earlier tests.  For example, the second quote below says that many people in the church today are welcoming Satan as a friend.

Quote
The apostle John in vision heard a loud voice in Heaven exclaiming, "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." [Revelation 12:12.] Fearful are the scenes which call forth this exclamation from the heavenly voice. The wrath of Satan increases as his time grows short, and his work of deceit and destruction reaches its culmination in the time of trouble. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected his mercy, despised his love, and trampled upon his law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation, and the Lord withdraws his protection, and leaves them to the mercy of the leader they have chosen. Satan will have power over those who have yielded themselves to his control, and he will plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old.  {4SP 440.3}
 
A single angel destroyed all the first-born of the Egyptians, and filled the land with mourning. When David offended against God by numbering the people, one angel caused that terrible destruction by which his sin was punished. The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when he allows. There are forces now ready, and only waiting the divine permission, to spread desolation everywhere.  {4SP 441.1}
 
Fearful sights of a supernatural character will soon be revealed in the heavens, in token of the power of miracle-working demons. The spirits of devils will go forth to the kings of the earth and to the whole
world. Rulers and subjects will be alike deceived. Persons will arise pretending to be Christ, and claiming the title and the worship which belong to the world's Redeemer. They will perform wonderful miracles of healing, and will profess to have revelations from Heaven contradicting the testimony of the Scriptures.  {4SP 441.2} 

As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will attempt to personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. [Revelation 1:13-15.] The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air, "Christ has come! Christ has come!" The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands, and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed his disciples when he was personally upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying, This is "the great power of God."  {4SP 442.1}

Quote
The enemy is preparing for his last campaign against the church. He has so concealed himself from view that many can hardly believe that he exists, much less can they be convinced of his amazing activity and power. They have to a great extent forgotten his past record; and when he makes another advance move, they will not recognize him as their enemy, that old serpent, but they will consider him a friend, one who is doing a good work. Boasting of their independence they will, under his specious, bewitching influence, obey the worst impulses of the human heart and yet believe that God is leading them. Could their eyes be opened to distinguish their captain, they would see that they are not serving God, but the enemy of all righteousness. They would see that their boasted independence is one of the heaviest fetters Satan can rivet on unbalanced minds.  {5T 294.1}

ejclark

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Re: False Christs
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2018, 11:09:53 AM »
I believe he will do it before the close of probation, because that will be the biggest deception, and only those who have a love of the truth and have fortified their minds with the truths of the Bible will avoid deception. But that doesn't mean he disappears after the close of probation, since he doesn't know when probation closes, and will want to egg is followers on in his attempt to destroy God's people.  I think his deception will continue until the very end.
I believe this is why it is of the utmost importance to be so very careful in what we allow our ears to hear and eyes to see. For people who will still be watching TV and youtube videos without a very discerning eye and ear will be at very high risk of being deceived as Eve was at the tree of knowledge of good and evil. A person should probably not be watching TV at all and be extremely selective of the videos they watch. Can never be too careful.