Author Topic: Coming to Christ  (Read 19424 times)

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Ele Holmes

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Coming to Christ
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2004, 06:10:00 PM »
Dear Richard,
   I had a wonderful Sabbath day.  I had Adventist friends come over who I have not seen for over a year.  For a few hours our conversation was on the Lord...Then he started to tell me a bit on his life....He was born and raised an Adventist, was a pastor,  but it took 45 years before he really and truly found the Lord...."Praise the Lord"  I said, "at that time you then became converted and sanctified".  "No Ele, I was always converted as a pastor, but never knew the Lord, but I believed. I repented and I was justfied." I explained to him that the moment after we have come to Christ, confessed our sins, repented for our sins, yes we are justified, but then we are also sanctified that moment, which is a growing process.  We are holy, conversion is holy.  "No", he said, "at conversion you are not sanctified, that comes later"  (Not true.) Was he converted? I don't think so. Was I right? I didn't say too much after that for fear of an argument.
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Richard Myers

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« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2004, 06:23:00 PM »
Amen!!

This is very good, Sister Ele. We see here a man who thought "he was 'blameless' and he put his trust in his own righteousness. But when the mirror of the law was held up before him, and he saw himself as God saw him, full of mistakes, stained with sin" he saw that he was condemned to death. The first step in the process of conversion is to see that we need a physician. If we are not convinced of our need then we shall not need a Saviour.

Here we see the law of God working as the "school-master" to lead Saul, not Paul, to the foot of the cross. The question was Who? We know that Saul did not know Christ as God. He believed Him to be an imposter.  So, while Saul was praying to the God of heaven, he did not know the Lamb of God that would deliver him from his body of death.

Many want to make Romans 7 the Christian experience, thus excusing sin, but it is not so. It is the story of Saul and the conviction that came about as the law did it work upon his mind and heart. At last he saw what was real, he was a sinner with no hope.

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Ele Holmes

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« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2004, 05:20:00 AM »
Richard, This friend bought a piece of property in Todos Santos, which is on the ocean side about 40 miles from here. He wants to build and pastor a SDA church in that area. Believe it or not, our churches here have the right message except for the health reform, and the leaders from Tecate have many health Seminars here.  This friend's message would not be right.  He believes that if you just believe you are saved.  What can be done in this situation?  I pray the Lord will step in and guide and lead.  I praise the Lord...Our church is growing here.  We need two more churches.
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Richard Myers

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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2004, 05:31:00 AM »
God will continue to bless those who are channels of light and love.

The desire to be rid of his sinful body of death was the result of the workings of Christ upon Saul's mind. Christ was drawing him, but Saul did not know it. He was busy with his work as a Pharisee of Pharisees. He was persecuting the disciples of Christ. Interesting? At the same time being drawn by Christ.

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

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« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2004, 11:12:00 AM »
The man of Romans 7 is unconverted, but convicted of sin. Can this happen to a man after conversion? Yes, but in this particular lesson, it is Saul's conversion experience prior to his conversion on the road to Damascus. God answered his prayer. How?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Sister Marie

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« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2004, 03:48:00 PM »
I have heard this explanation several times that this took place before Saul became Paul. And I am not against that idea. However I must try and set it straight in my own understanding due to how it seems to be written is more present tense.
I think of Saul before he became Paul and I am sure he did none of this writing then before he was converted. So we can only say that when he wrote this it had to be after conversion. It isalso  written in the present form. So it appears that he is writing after his conversion about how he is struggling at the time of the writing....however..

Is it possible that he is writing this more as a parable knowing how people are before conversion, or maybe even really about himself before conversion, but in the parable form. This is the only way I can place this and understand it. Am I right on this, or is there another way of explaining it?


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With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

[This message has been edited by Sister Glass (edited 02-09-2004).]

With Christian Love,
Marie

Richard Myers

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« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2004, 06:32:00 PM »
Sister Marie, take another look at the chapter. Look for a moment at verses 9-11.

"For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me."

This is past tense. Paul is telling us about his past experience. In doing so he presents prinicples that are present, but it is in the context of his conversion experience. Pray about this, ask for the Holy Spirit and re-read chapters six, seven, and eight. In context it becomes clear that Paul is sharing his conversion experience. There is a topic on this in the BOL Forum. Romans Seven

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Sister Marie

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« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2004, 08:14:00 PM »
OK, that makes more sense to me know. I was not reading enough. I know as Christians we do suffer with great temptations at times as the devil is after our very being. But we are not subject to satan as long as we walk in the light. There is deliverance every time.

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With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

With Christian Love,
Marie

Richard Myers

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« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2004, 08:23:00 PM »
Amen!

Poor Saul in coming to God, was actually coming to Christ. The law was killing him and he was seeking help for his hopeless condition. He did not know "who" could help him or "how" to overcome. When we see our need of help, we are to go to Christ just as we are. Some feel they cannot go to Christ in their sins, but Christ calls us to Him that He might cleanse us. We come to Him filthy asking to be clean.  Paul "Saul", saw his need and cried out. When the sinner sees his need he cries out to God and God will not leave him alone. How did God respond to Saul's cry for help?

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

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« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2004, 03:45:00 PM »
When a man reaches the point where he cries out as did Saul, God does not have to wait any longer. He speaks to the inquiring soul.

"And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?" Acts 9:1-6.

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

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« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2004, 07:25:00 AM »
In coming to Christ, Saul was "kicking against the pricks". What does this mean? Do all "kick against the pricks?"
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Sister Marie

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« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2004, 07:44:00 AM »
I don't think all people do. It depends a lot on how strong a belief on has that is against the truth. Like people who believe Sunday is the sabbath or that the wicked burn forever. This is ground in so strong that they have a hard time believing it is not true. I think Saul was in this situation. So he kicked against the truth hard, just likt they do today.

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With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

With Christian Love,
Marie

Richard Myers

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« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2004, 05:11:00 PM »
If we did not kick against the pricks then would we not be converted faster? Why does it take so long for most to be converted? Christ is drawing all to Himself. Why do we not give in quickly? Conversion is the end of a long protracted process. Why does it need to be so long?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Sister Marie

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« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2004, 08:33:00 PM »
Some people value things according to how much they pay for it. If they get it free (totally free) they place very little value on it. Coming to the Lord may be the same for some people. If it is too easy there is little value to it. If one has to fight to understand, study and sweat over it, the value goes up. It developes a caring for the Truth that I doubt is there when they are allowed in without study and a real heart and love for the whole truth.

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With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

With Christian Love,
Marie

JimB

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« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2004, 04:45:00 AM »
Brother Richard, I don't know that my reply is "the" answer as to why it takes so long. Let me suggest it is because we as humans (I believe) are getting weaker morally and physically with each generation. Satan along with our ever increasing weakness has about 6000 years of experience to dig his claws into us. Satans ways are probably more deadly and subtle than ever before.

Therefore it takes longer to break free. Especially if we believe that we are doing the right thing in the first place.

Didn't Saul believe he was doing right?

[This message has been edited by JimB (edited 02-17-2004).]

By communion with God in nature, the mind is uplifted, and the heart finds rest.  {DA 291.1}

Ele Holmes

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« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2004, 06:03:00 AM »
Amen JimB
Richard, you asked what it means to "Kick against the pricks"?  Ellen White answers this way:  I was shown in the vision given me of the judgment, that God would send warning, counsels, and reproof.  Some would take heed to their ways and seek the Lord, while some would  follow their own judgment because it was more convenient and pleasing to their own natural hearts to do so, while some others would KICK AGAINST THE PRICKS, rise up against the testimonies of reproof, despise the warnings, choose their own wisdom....and so blinded by his infatuations they would be utterly unable to discern the things of God and would work directly against the light, enshrouding themselves in darkness and error. Then these very ones would sustain and strengthen the hands of our bitterest enemies.   14MR 1

"Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?"  asks Christ  "It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."  Every effort to stay  on the progress of the gospel, results in injury and suffering to the opposer.  Sooner or later his own heart will condemn him, he will find that he has, indeed, been kicking against the pricks.  RH 03-16-11

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Ele Holmes

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« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2004, 06:25:00 AM »
Why does it take so long to be converted?
Why does it take so long for my Mexican churches to change their diet to God's diet?  The same reason....Selfishness,  (I don't want to give up this for that) laziness, not visiting Calvary enough times. Not knowing the true love Jesus has for us. Not spending that hour in the morning meditating on the life of Christ....Not getting the right message from evangelism....  Not seeing the importance of it. Until we see our sins and condemn ourselves.  

We must pray for those that belief, Lord help their unbelief.

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Richard Myers

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« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2004, 05:42:00 AM »
Amen and myself. Lord I believe, take away my unbelief.

Yes, Sister Ele, selfishness is why we as humans resist God's drawing. If we would cease to do so we would be drawn to Christ much more quickly.

Conversion is the end of a long protracted process of wooing by the Holy Spirit. We must see our need then we must learn of our God. We must learn of His character that we might trust Him with all they we have and all that we are. It takes time to develop this relationship. The more removed we are from Eden the more unholy we have become as humans. We have continued to be adversely affected by sin. As humans, our physical being as well as our morality continues to fall lower. Christ can and will make us partakers His divine nature if we will come to Jesus just as we are. Let us give Him our all.

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Ele Holmes

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Coming to Christ
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2004, 06:12:00 AM »
AMEN   God be with us all today....
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Ele Holmes

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« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2004, 04:48:00 AM »
I had to put this here....enjoy it like I do....God be with you....

COMING TO CHRIST

The road is rough, I said,
Dear Lord,
There are stones that hurt me so.
And He said, Dear child, I understand
I walked it long ago.

But there's a cool green path, I said
Let me walk there for a time.
No child, He gently answered me
The green path does not climb.

My burden is far too great,
How can I bear it so?
My child, He said, I remember
the weight,
I carried my cross you know.

But I said,
I wish there were friends with me
Who would make my way their own.
Oh Yes, He said, Gethsemane
was hard to bear alone.

And I climb the stony path
Content at last to know
That where my Master had not gone,
I would not need to go.


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