Fourth Amendment in Danger

[Wendy]

In a bill allegedly to cut the production of Methamphetamines is a provision that would allow for search and seizure without a warrent. The bill was sponsored by U-S Representative Chris Cannon R-Utah.

Apparently the provision was buried so deep in the bill no one noticed it, but that doesn't stop if from having teeth. If the Secret Searches provision becomes law it applies to all searches conducted by the federal government.

The bill empowers the federal government, state governments, and local law enforcement agencies to enter private property (homes, businesses, automobiles, etc) for any "criminal searches" without a warrent and without any legal obligation to inform the private property owner that a search and seizure  was conducted until months later, if at all.

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Maranatha!:)

[Richard Myers]

Did the bill pass both houses and is it now law?

[Wendy]

Hi Richard,
 They managed to kill it so the danger is over for now. Some senators are worried that the Reno Justice department will try to sneak it in, in the fall economic bill that gets so huge almost nobody reads all of it. They are going to be watching for such a tactic though.  

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Maranatha!

[This message has been edited by Wendy (edited 06-29-2000).]

[Paul Beach]

Wendy,

This is a very interesting message you've posted and something to be concerned about.  It appears as if the Reno Justice Department has skirted constitutional boundaries anytime that "safety" is at issue.

The current Supreme Court would overturn this bill based on the fact that it does not appear to fall under the federal responsibilities because it would not sufficiently implicate the Commerce Clause (the only way that Congress has been able to get these kinds of laws passed is if the subject matter sufficiently affects interstate commerce.  The Court's decision in U.S. v. Lopez severely curtailed Congress' ability to reach into the states and compel them to act a certain way(the state and local police parts of the bill you mentioned do this).

This bill would probably never pass Constitutional muster under the current Court, which recently confirmed Miranda when it was challenged.

We must remain dilligent to vote in this next election for a president who will establish a judiciary that strongly supports our Constitutional rights.

Paul

[Wendy]

Paul,
 Which Presidential hopeful do you think would appoint judges that would uphold civil rights?

[Kevin Hellerud]

This is a big issue that conserns me in the election.  Over the past half century it has been mostly Democrats who appoint justices that defend the constitution.  But also there has been a growing trend of politations becoming puppets for the corporations and their developing world state.

[Paul Beach]

Wendy,

We're in a precarious situation.  On one hand, the Democrats have traditionally supported minorities.  However, the liberal agenda seems bent on removing the last vestiges of Christianity from public life.  (The instance where a Christian club was closed for a while at Tufts University because they refused to allow a homosexual leader is an example of this.)  So in one sense, what were once the "fringe groups" are being mainstreamed while traditional Christians are being marginalized.

On the other hand, Republicans seem to favor Christianity.  However, they may fall into the danger of supporting the views of the very vocal and very conservative Christian Coalition at the expense of less mainstream
Christian groups (such as Adventism).

Financially, the Democrats are much more willing to compromise our financial freedom by increasing taxes and forcing us to spend our money a certain way.  Republicans are in favor of cutting taxes and giving us control over our income.

In general, Democrats think that our country was greatest during the big government programs of the 1930s-40s.  Republicans think of the Reagan years of tax cuts and consumer confidence.

In reality, our freedom is much more dependent on the financial status of our nation than anything else.  If we are financially secure with a strong criminal justice system (within Constitutional boundaries) so that people have money and a sense of security, the other freedoms will remain secure.  But once we are not safe and do not have money, the "Big Government" will kick in and offer a lot of "solutions."  This would appear more likely to come from the Democratic sector than the Republican.

Only God ultimately knows.

Paul

[Kevin Hellerud]

The world economic state of American corporations can use either party for their purposes.  Yet, I have to admit I am still sensitive to Reganonics.  Up til 1982 the college I went to had nearly everyone have jobs waiting for them at graduation.  In 1982 hardly anyone had jobs.  The fields of religion, teaching and socialwork were among the many fields that were hit especially hard.  

College graduates were moving back home with mom and dad as they were unemployed.  I remember going to the New York State department of labor and they had someone at the door saying "You can regester with us if you wish, but we have absolutely no jobs.  Our computers are completely empty."

I remember overhearing someone tell a career advisor "Things are so bad in New Jersey, I need a job, so I've come here" only to have the counsler reply "Go back home, no matter how bad things are there, they can not be worst than here."

College graduates were competeing with highschool dropouts for work.  Working at K-mart, 7-11, working as nursing aids, painters, janitors, house cleaners, lawn care. The officer slots for the military were filled, so college graduates were enlisting.  And these were the lucky ones who got jobs. Many had to do volunteer work for room and board.  This was not the lazy people who did not want to work, or who was too proud to go out and scrub floors.

School classrooms had a very high student to teacher ratio and education standards droped.  Teachers had to teach two fields.  Jobs were mainly given to Math and Science teachers, Bible and History were taught by the Math and Science teacher, or by volunteers, just barely staying a head of the students in the text book.

Church dirstricts of one pastor with two churches became one pastor to three or four churches. Retired pastors were called back to service.  Meanwhile ministeral graduates were graduating to unemployment and school bills and untrained for other careers.

The work was not less, only the money to pay for workers.

Let us not remember the money saved on taxes during the Regan-Bush years with out remembering that you had to support your grown kids who could not find work after college.

This new generation, I find it hard to imagine how so many are in good paying jobs, have their own place, are able to marry and have a family, all in their early 20's.

I am terrified of those years returning.

[This message has been edited by Kevin Hellerud (edited 07-18-2000).]

[Wendy]

Hi all,
 Kevin, I know there are deep feelings when it comes to politics, that's why it can be difficult to discuss politics in a Christian forum. We want to discuss here how we can further our common Goals as SDA Christians, not get partisan.

Does that sound good to you?

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Maranatha!:)

[Wendy]

To anybody that's interested ,
   I've been puzzling over some of the same things that Paul was talking about for a while. The way I see it is that both parties are controlled by the One World Order people. I tend to be conservative and Republicanish but it was George Bush that was talking the One World Order all the time and pushing to bring our country and our laws under the authority of the U.N. laws. I didn't want him to get elected but when Clinton was elected I was even more dismayed. I could see he was the type that would tell you whatever you wanted to hear so you would vote for him (even worse then the typical political animal). That ment that he would cater to the powers that be in order to get elected and sure enoungh he finished Bush's one world agenda for him and has even added to it. (That's not even talking about all his other corruption)

So here we are now, Clinton's finally timed out of office and the only choices we have are another Bush and Gore (who's as corrupt as his boss). I think I'll probably be writing in somebody  (I haven't figured out who yet) like I did in the primaries.

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Maranatha!:)

[Richard Myers]

Here's my choice. If I vote for Gore, I support homo-sexuals in cabinet level positions in the government and soon in the churches. If I vote for Bush, I will hasten the national Sunday law. We live with consequences of our decisions and I cannot live with either of these being on my conscience.

We have a responsibility to vote in our society and this I do always, but I cannot help to put into office men that will counter work the work of God.  I came from the business world and I understand economics and politics. My great concerns are what would God have me to do. Preach the third angels message and resist the Sunday law in ways that will glorify Christ and His truth.

In His love and grace,     Richard

[Gerry Buck]

So, what do we do? Write in Mighty Mouse or one of his buddies?

Seriously, I thin k we better pray real hard and ask God for guidance on this one.
Looks like we lose if we do and we lose if we don't.

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Abstain from ALL  appearence of evil. 1Thess.5:22
Gerry B.

[Wendy]

Hi all,
 I wrote in Forbes in the primaries because it seemed like he had a level head. Then it occured to me that my vote might get transfered to Bush, so now I don't know who to write in during the final elections. I'll look around the web and see if there is anybody else out there that might be a reasonable choice.

Maybe we could write in Richard   .

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Maranatha!

[This message has been edited by Wendy (edited 07-19-2000).]

[Paul Beach]

It's hard to find a politician who doesn't have a nutty side.  I was watching Ralph Nader on C-SPAN and he made a lot of sense except when it came to how he wanted to raise taxes and limit the "economic power" of the "rich."  (They're the ones who give others jobs, so that didn't make sense.)

Then there was the Libertarian Party guy who was on the McLaughlin Group.  I liked his small government idea, but didn't agree with legalizing drugs.

There are other parties out there, but most of them have some lunatic fringe elements.  The Reform party seems to have a good combination, but they're just plain scary.

Talk to you later,

Paul

[This message has been edited by Paul Beach (edited 07-19-2000).]

[Richard Myers]

Brother Gerry, it may look like we lose, but consider this.  If Clinton had lost where would we be today?  God has revealed to us the future and it says we win!!  

That stone carved without human hands is the kingdom of God's making and it victorious over the kingdoms of this world! We just need to hang on to Jesus and He will carry us through to the end!

Let us lift up Jesus as the answer and many will follow.

In His love and grace,      Richard     ps....Sister Wendy, thanks for the vote, but you know the world hated Jesus and it will hate us also.  We are a minority and as soon as the constitution in the United States has been violated you and I and all of God's people will be persecuted. (some in many places in the world are already giving their lives)

[Wendy]

Brother Richard,
      Yes we are the minority and we always will be until Christ comes. In fact I think we are in the final push for the one world order and we SDA's won't be able to stop it this time. (I remember reading about previous attempts to get a Sunday Law passed and it seems like I remember A.T. Jones even went and gave a speech before Congress opposing the law.) We Adventists have had the privilage of working with the angels to hold back the four winds of strife to give the world that little bit of extra time. The forces of darkness have gotten smart and are working to have the U.N. (which I've come to believe is the image to the beast) laws and regulations take precidence over U.S. laws. They are in the process of setting up a world court which has juristiction over every person on Earth regardless of what the country they are a citizen of says. In fact I guess some U.S. citizens have been arrested by the U.N. for crimes that are not crimes in the United States. That way they can set up laws without being accountable to voters. Now all that remains is for the powers that be to decide that we need a moral concensus and appoint the Pope as the head of morality branch(they've almost done this already). You know what the Pope will do then. He's already making the call for a Sunday law in the encyclical he issued in the last couple of years about Sunday sacredness.

Why then do we even bother to vote? Last year in the fall I read the biography of Hitler. During the last few votes before Hitler took away the right to vote, Hitler got almost between 80% and 100% of the vote. I couldn't help wondering, where were the Adventists? What were they thinking? Were they thinking there's nobody else to vote for? Were they thinking we can't stop him so why even vote?.

I know who ever I eventually decide to vote for doesn't have a chance of winning but I'll also have the satisfaction of knowing I did something. I don't want to face the Judgement seat and try to explain why I didn't use what little influence I have to try to hold back the tide.

Sorry I got long winded, I wanted to explain where I was coming from.

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Maranatha!:)