Author Topic: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?  (Read 24217 times)

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Richard Myers

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2013, 08:05:47 AM »
Science is starting to prove the dangers of eating animal products and the blessings that come from eating fruits and vegetables.  A medical study done in London has added encouragement that eating cruciferous veggies is protective against cancer.  The cruciferous family includes broccoli and cabbage. abibleanswer.org
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colporteur

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2013, 08:21:00 AM »
"Moral" has to do with right and wrong. Is it right to kill oneself with what enters the mouth? If we know smoking is harmful is it immoral to smoke?  I think a child can answer this for us. But, the Bible says "to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him, it is sin." The Bible means exactly what it says. Many refuse to believe what the Bible says and they will suffer loss. There is no greater sin than "unbelief".

And, we can add just a little to this short lesson. Some remain willfully ignorant and they too are guilty of sin.  When we neglect the opportunity to learn what is truth, it is a moral choice. Some restrict "morality" to the ten commandments, but they err. Selfishness is sin. All sin is immoral.

So, when one knows that it is unnecessary to kill an animal to have health, then why kill an animal for food?

When one is told that there is Leukemia Virus in most dairy and a virus can cause human cancer, then why continue to eat dairy? Because we need it for good health? No. That has never been true. The original diet given to man did not include eggs and milk. So, man does not need them for good health. To the contrary, dairy causes disease in humans because much of it is infected with disease. Those who do not understand, and do not remain willfully ignorant are not guilty of violating a "moral" law. They may violate a physical law that will have consequences, but if they do not understand, then there is no issue of morality in eating animals or their products.

Most people outside of the church are happy to find out about dairy products. Many begin to make changes in their diet immediately upon receiving the information. They rush home to see if it is so and by the next time I see them they have more questions and express their shock that things could have gotten to such a sad state where the government allows Leukemia to be in milk sold to the public. They have no "religious" law forcing them to do what is right, they just want to do it to protect themselves and their children. Don't most feel this way? And if not, why not?

Yes, and to kill an animal or to hire another to do so, to gratify taste, when we know or are able to know that to eat flesh is harmful to us, is that not sin?  Is sin not a salvation issue.

Recently I heard  one of our young pastors say in a sermon that we are not to push our extreme diets on others. He did not explain what he meant by "pushing" and "extreme" but given the fact that almost all the congregation eats meat and even more consume dairy I take "extreme" to mean vegan.  I have not heard any discussion up front in church regarding ANY aspect of health. The  pastor also said that we are all at different stages of development and that he was certain that  no one in the congregation was failing to listen to God. Not to pick on people but there are members with rings in the ears and  fingers and there are superintendents that put a Santa up on the screen at Christmas and for remarks read off "funny" children's lists to Santa.  My point is that many of our leaders are trying to be so protective of the congregations that they will not so much as hint that something could be wrong with a flesh diet, or Santa, or jewelry. Some will not even say the name Ellen White (one of my favorite authors).  ::) :P   For shame

It has become fashionable to say and think that nothing is a salvation issue other than a profession.
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carls365

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2013, 09:39:50 AM »

Yes, and to kill an animal or to hire another to do so, to gratify taste, when we know or are able to know that to eat flesh is harmful to us, is that not sin?  Is sin not a salvation issue.

Recently I heard  one of our young pastors say in a sermon that we are not to push our extreme diets on others. He did not explain what he meant by "pushing" and "extreme" but given the fact that almost all the congregation eats meat and even more consume dairy I take "extreme" to mean vegan.  I have not heard any discussion up front in church regarding ANY aspect of health. The  pastor also said that we are all at different stages of development and that he was certain that  no one in the congregation was failing to listen to God. Not to pick on people but there are members with rings in the ears and  fingers and there are superintendents that put a Santa up on the screen at Christmas and for remarks read off "funny" children's lists to Santa.  My point is that many of our leaders are trying to be so protective of the congregations that they will not so much as hint that something could be wrong with a flesh diet, or Santa, or jewelry. Some will not even say the name Ellen White (one of my favorite authors)::) :P   For shame

It has become fashionable to say and think that nothing is a salvation issue other than a profession.

While at the supermarket the other day, I asked the checker if they caught the flu yet to make chitchat. It surprised me, she said no and "don't eat meat"

EGW: Yes, a very well known pastor around here refers to Ellen White as "one author" and rarely says the name Ellen G. White. To me it's blending with the PC world without  even realizing it.

colporteur

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2013, 01:00:31 PM »
Yes, Carl, and since when does "one author" need to be kept in the closet ? We do not need to hide the prophet. We have nothing to be ashamed of accept those that are ashamed.

I suggest we start advocating a printing in our bulletins   "one head elder" and the sermon will be by "one pastor" or "one of my favorite pastors".  ;)

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colporteur

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2013, 01:14:00 PM »
Back on topic. I believe one of several good reasons to be a strict vegetarian is because an all knowing Father in heaven has told us that that is the diet He would like us to return to..... because it is the natural diet given to man. It is the best diet for us and the one most kind to animals.

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Richard Myers

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2013, 10:20:59 AM »
There are many who read in this forum who are not yet true Christians. They therefore are seeking a knowledge of what is truth regarding good health. The great blessing is that today, one does not need the Bible to tell them that the eating of animal products is putting them and their families at great risk. Science today has confirmed many truths regarding the superiority of a strict vegetarian diet. It works from two directions. That animals are sick and are a vector for transmitting their disease to humans when eaten and that a diet diet of fruits, grains, nuts, and seeds provide not only good nutrition, but defense against disease. More and more, science is proving that the original diet given to man in the Bible is the best.

It is our privilege to share these truths with those outside of our faith who have never had the opportunity to know.  The world is ready for health reform.
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colporteur

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2013, 03:40:42 PM »
Maybe we could share some information regarding why veggies are so much superior better to animal products even with all the issues with veggies. I do not need any convincing but many people out there have been told that veggies are just as bad as meat and dairy due to all the chemicals and GMO issues with fruit and veggies.
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Richard Myers

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2013, 04:00:25 PM »
That does not hold up, does it.  The diseases spread by veggies often come from an animal source. e. coli and many of the bacterial disease emanate from animals.  Cancer is spread from animal products. And, the chemicals can be a problem, but not nearly as much as the diseases spread by animal products.

And, we may avert GMOs, but the animals do not. Therefore, humans get the GMOs second hand from eating animal products.

Yes, share with us, cp, some of the important truths that reveal reasons for giving up animal products for food.
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colporteur

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2013, 06:01:43 PM »
Yes, plants and animals/animal products have radically different effects on the body particularly in our time.  Are chemicals sprayed on plants bad for us ? Of course, and there are no guarantee even with organic produce. However, there is really no comparison between the food God created to be eaten and animal products. There are so many dimensions of danger relative to animal products that do not even exist with plants. I am far from an expert in this field but even comparing plants and animal flesh just in the area of chemicals alone gives a distinct advantage to the plants. Animals tend to store  high concentrations of chemicals from sprays in their fat and organs so as not to be comparable with plants. There is no getting around eating some of the animal fat and typically well marbled meat is sought after. For instance, a beef steer eats a great deal of chemical laden silage, hay, corn and such by the time he reaches 1500-1800 pounds. By market time the beef has eaten more contaminated food than a person could eat in 10 years. When the person eats the beef, typically with the fat and the blood he receives along with exposure to life threatening diseases much higher doses of chemical from herbicides and insecticides than he would ever get from the hay and corn because he could never begin to eat than much. Then add the antibiotics, steroids, and whatever tankage the animal was fed as a supplement and the human gets a high dose of chemical stew.

This reason alone not to mention all the others is reason enough to stay away from all animal products. What's bad in plants is tenfold worse in the animals people typically.

Someone might reply, " my beef has been fed organically grown produce." This is rare and would cost a fortune to the consumer to go that route and would not be practical. Even if this was done, organic growers use sprays too and what might not be harmful in the amount that would be on a plant may be harmful when concentrated in the animal.

Again, none of this is even considering the disease factor relative to animals and absent in plants. Then there is the effect of animal fat on the human being as well as the fiberless effect of meat on the digestive system, as well as the high protein effect on the body leaching out calcium necessary for strong bones.


       
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colporteur

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2013, 08:49:02 AM »
This Sabbath we had a spaghetti fellowship supper at church. A number of church members eat meat. To add more content to our spaghetti sauce I included homemade bulgur burger from organic bulgur wheat. About mid way through the meal word got around that one crock pot had meat in the sauce. We were asked by the head elder's wife if that was our crock pot and is there meat in it. She knew better but had to ask because others were asking. This was very humorous to us (lol)as we are the only true vegans in the entire church. People really liked the sauce and one very worldly member (hooped earrings, pants, makeup etc.etc.) asked me what we put in the sauce. I could tell that the reason she asked this was because she could not believe that a meatless sauce could seem so much like sauce with meat . I don't think it was the taste so much as the texture that fooled the people.  ;D
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Richard Myers

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2013, 09:18:27 AM »
Amen, cp. One of the great impediments to giving up meat is the appearance, texture, and taste of dishes that mimic meat dishes. But, there is really no reason for this to be a stumbling block.  Today, it is possible to provide a meal that all may enjoy. I prepared a strict vegetarian stroganoff for an Easter dinner where all were meat eaters.  All ate from the dish and none knew it was not meat. The issue is very much a mental resistance. I am not saying that there are dishes that can replace all meat dishes. I am saying that a strict vegetarian diet can be attractive, provide meat texture, and be delicious.  There are so many healthful foods that even before there is a change in taste, there is much to eat when moving away from animal products.
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colporteur

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2013, 02:44:04 PM »
The other day I announced to my children that" we would not have salad today." They cheered like people do when someone scores a touch down. I guess we are having too much salad. They like salad but I suppose having it 6-7 days a week can get monotonous. Today they ate 45 oz. of turnip greens after their salad and baked potato. I got a trifle of greens that was left. I have never seen children like cooked greens so much. Though most canned food is worthless canned greens are pretty healthy. That means with the turnip greens alone they each got 150% vitamin A, 40% calcium, 15% iron, and 10% vitamin C. Now its my turn to cheer !  Add on a baked potato with flax seed oil, yeast flakes, onion and garlic powder and sea salt etc.. etc., and an organic salad with romaine, carrots, beet, dill, olives, lemons juice etc.. and a home ground, homemade whole wheat muffin,.... and I think we done alright. ;D
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Mimi

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2013, 05:56:04 PM »
You would make someone an excellent wife, Colporteur.  ;D You are outshining most women in the kitchen. Keep up the good work!
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colporteur

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2013, 07:04:48 PM »
You would make someone an excellent wife, Colporteur.  ;D You are outshining most women in the kitchen. Keep up the good work!

I have always loved to cook. The  difference is I used to put together a mixed  multitude. That means a nice salad and potato with my barbecue pork chops. In some ways it is more difficult now and in other ways easier. I used to cook entirely for taste. Now it is more for health with taste secondary. With less cooking of vegetables and no dead flesh to char it cuts down on that part of it.  Although almost 90% food prep from scratch can make one busy sometimes. Grinding flour and making bread takes time but I have learned to do it in quantity so that helps a lot. Today I hauled up spuds  from the well pit. Most were doing quite well after 7 months storage. I think they will make it until about potato harvesting time for the new crop. Amazing that there was a time I thought life would end without the status quo in terms of sports, hunting, fishing, and eating dead remains. It is amazing how the Lord can spin one around and head him another direction, if he is willing.
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Mark W

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2013, 10:02:55 PM »
I never have shoved my diet down some ones throat, but we do need to set a right example that others may see and follow. You can read the bible and you will not find anywhere were it says we cannot eat clean meat, and many Adventists do eat clean meat. Now I myself have not eaten meat for over 18 years for I knew it was not the healthiest choice. But one day as I was studying for a talk up front, I read Gen 9:5  "And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it..." I thought about that and realized that yeas after the flood, God allowed Noah to eat of the clean animals which he had taken on the ark. But there would be a price that he and all others that followed would have to face and that was that their life for the animals life. As I thought about it I looked it up in the Ellen White writings and found this to collaborate my thinking. . If meat eating was ever healthful, it is not safe now. Cancers, tumors, and pulmonary diseases are largely caused by meat eating. T. vol. 9 p159 it seems to me that the meat its self is the very one that takes the life of man often in the form of cancer, heart disease and the list goes on. S.N. Haskel wrote in his little bible hand book; "Over every plate of flesh meat, those words of God can truly be placed; "Surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it..." God has never for gotten to avenge the blood of animals slain for food. He uses various agencies to fulfill His word, as cancers, tumors, ulcers, consumptions, ect."  Mrs. White goes on to say that, Among those who are waiting for the coming of the Lord, meat eating will eventually be done away; flesh will cease to form a part of their diet So it looks pretty plain to me. And when asked this is the exact answer I give, for I am trying to prepare myself  for translation day.

colporteur

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2013, 06:57:47 AM »
That's the difference Mark. In the anti-typical day of atonement are God's professed people walking in the light and moving forward or are we using a time when the animal kingdom was much healthier and man's physical constitution much stronger (2,000 years ago) to excuse today living in the dark ages health wise due to our lust for flesh ? I agree we should not push this down the throats of those in the remnant church. The problem is that many are not reading and to even read the lines such as you have quoted, as superintendent's remarks for Sabbath school or during a health seminar in the church is often met with some kind of negative uprising by members. Some do not know and some know but do not wish to be reminded. We in the church have allowed the few that would rise up and make a big fuss to quiet our message.

There is another facet of "clean" flesh eating that never gets mentioned. We are told repeatedly in Scripture that to eat the meat with the fat or the blood is unclean and an abomination. That means that to eat a "good steak"  is to consume one that is well marbled with fat for flavor and tenderness. If it is not well done and cut open a goodly amount of blood issues out. Under a different  biblical category the dead flesh is still unclean.

We have direct counsel in the Spirit of Prophecy that those who still  consume flesh ought not  be preaching and teaching our people because their minds are confused. There are those as well that simply rebel against the light  and continue along that line from the pulpit. I have seen that in the church we were members of in Michigan. One member pressed for the pulpit until he got his way. He was a professed "joker" and would talk about inviting the guys over for steaks. Then we would make comments like, " I suppose the head elder will be pulling me aside after the sermon and talking with me. I  would not give him the pulpit but the head elder was more easy going and let the man go. When i shared with the member why from the SOP I would not let him preach on my month of choosing speakers he went to the pastor and said, " we might as well throw in the towel." The pastor about freaked and then made excuses for letting this man sow his seeds from the pulpit. I am under the conviction that we ought not let members, lifetime members, seize the pulpit by means of threats to leave the church. If we must push and press for the pulpit, that in itself is a disqualification to speak This man's wife wears a diamond and at times he speaks in church about being a good witness to his brother by helping him plant trees on the Sabbath. All of this supports  what we are told in the SOP about the minds and attitudes of those who persist in eating flesh food. When we first moved and visited the church this man would make jesting comments at the SOP  during fellowship dinner like " i must be confused because I eat venison." This would be when we were not even talking about diet.

Then as I think you eluded to there is the inhumane way animals are raised, hauled to market, and slaughtered these days.

My point is that there are many in the church that not only ignore the firm counsel of God but would push their meat diet down the throats of our people. In the church here, before we came they were serving meat and coffee for fellowship dinner. I believe the church is perfectly justified by emphasizing from our pulpits and during Sabbath school the diet that God is trying to lead His people back to, the Edenic diet.  I don't want to sound harsh but if our seasoned church members find that offensive they might join the Episcopal church where the road is wide and many there be  that travel down it.  ;D
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colporteur

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2013, 07:40:30 AM »
   The following is what I shared with the elder in my church in Michigan.


  “NO ONE should be set apart as a teacher of the people while his own teaching or example contradicts the testimony God has given His servants to bear in regard to diet, for this will bring CONFUSION.  His disregard of health reform UNFITS him to stand as the Lord’s messenger.”   6T. 378  (emphasis supplied) Question: Does standing behind the pulpit define one as “the Lord’s messenger?” 


"Let not any our ministers set an evil example in the eating of flesh meat. Let them and their families live up to the light of health reform." Counsels on Diet and Foods, p. 399. (emphasis supplied)   Question: " Is not the speaker behind the pulpit the acting minister?

"Can we possibly have confidence in ministers who at tables where flesh is served join with others in eating it?" Ibid., p. 402.

"Will  ANY who are ministers of the gospel, proclaiming the most solemn truth ever given to mortals, set an example in returning to the fleshpots of Egypt? Will those who are supported by the tithe from God's storehouse permit themselves by self-indulgence to poison the life-giving current flowing through their veins? Will they disregard the light and warnings that God has given them?" Ibid., p. 404, 405.
(emphasis supplied)

Is a speaker giving  the message during the divine service a “messenger of the gospel?”  Is he not the acting minister? Whether paid by the tithe or not has little to do with the fact that his message is in effect carrying much the same weight. The Bible makes no difference between an elder and a pastor.

A Sabbathschool teacher or anyone reading  and presenting something up front before the people  is surely  an application of   “teacher of the people” as referred to in the quote from 6 Test., p.378.


“One of the highest attainments in the Christian life is to overcome appetite, and without this victory ALL HOPE OF HEAVEN IS VAIN.” C.T.B.H. 206 (emphasis supplied)


“The controlling power of appetite will prove the ruin of thousands, when, if they had conquered on this point, they would have had moral power to gain the victory over every other temptation of Satan. But those who are slaves to appetite will fail in perfecting Christian character. The continual transgression of man for six thousand years has brought sickness, pain, and death as its fruits. And as we near the close of time, Satan's temptation to indulge appetite will be more powerful and more difficult to overcome." [3T, 491.3 - 492]

“The moral evils of a flesh diet are not less marked than are the physical ills. Flesh food is injurious to the health, and whatever affects the body has a corresponding effect on the mind and soul. Think the cruelty to animals that meat eating involves, and its effect on those who inflict and those who behold it. How it destroys the tenderness with which we should regard these creatures of God.” (1905) M.H. 315

“As a family, you are far from being free from disease. You have used the fat  of animals which God in His word expressly forbids: It shall be a perpetual statue for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood. “ “ Moreover, ye shall eat no manner of blood, whether it be of fowl or of beast, in any of your dwellings. Whatsoever soul it be that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.” (1868) 2T 61  (See Lev. 3:17, 7:25)
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Mark W

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2013, 08:57:46 AM »
Good read CP. And I agree. i think you know what I mean by shoving it down someones throat, but that doesn't mean we are not to be a witness or warn the righteous if their way is not in accordance with the will of God. Any one that believes their body is the temple of God, should head what has been penned on the subject. And if they don't read, then yes we that do know are under solom obligation to tell them so as that their blood is not on our hands. During the lesson discussion even last month i found the opportunity to share what I penned above, and do so when the opportunity arises. And yes I have preached it from the pulpit in a loving manner just to show what the bibles and SOPs stance was on the subject. But I guess my church is not like some for they took it without a firestorm. For they knew it was right and if they choose to go contrary then that is between them and God. I don't know all their circumstances but do know of one family that are on a fixed income which is meager. And yes he hunts deer every year for food. Again it is between them and God. We just make sure we have done our part and then he can do His. Now preaching contrary to the word is a different story. We as elders when a question arises or one of us catch something that does not sound right, we discuss it and even have a group study in order to find the answers. And if need be disciplinary action sometimes has to happen. But I am fortunate for our church has a unanimous agreement and board approved vote to never serve meat at any fellowship lunch or get together. I mean we are so far in the ditch that all music to be played at any function has to be pre-aproved.  ;D God bless

Richard Myers

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2013, 01:14:09 PM »
Yes, there are indeed good spiritual reasons for becoming a strict vegetarian. Today, that would begin with "thou shall not kill". Eating dairy some would say does not involve killing, but in fact it does. It is now known by the medical community and many in the world that a virus can cause cancer. And, there is a world-wide epidemic of Bovine Leukemia which is caused by a virus. Very few countries have eradicated the virus from their cows. They leave them on the milking line and the virus is seen in the milk when it is sold to the public. From what I have seen, in the United States much of the milk is infected. The University of California, Berkley, has been doing a study to see if there is a connection between Bovine Leukemia and human breast cancer. They are finding markers for BLV in breast tissue of breast cancer patients. There is enough evidence to suggest that those who are still eating and drinking dairy are exposing themselves to the risk of cancer. In other words, many may be killing themselves and sadly their children. That sounds like a good reason to refrain from placing animal products in front of others, especially in church.
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colporteur

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Re: Why Become a Strict Vegetarian?
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2014, 08:10:11 PM »
My mother has been to more doctors perhaps than the woman with the issue of blood. Since her last doctor  was another misfit she went looking for another. I have tried repeatedly to steer her to one of our natural health clinics but without success.  Two people that she respects very much both told her that they would recommend a new black doctor from Africa. He is a young man and has been educated in New York. While visiting with my mother and looking over her charts they talked about her health concerns and my mother mentioned her youngest son (my younger brother) and his kidney issues. The doctor asked, "do either of you east meat?"  My mother said that she eats a little and my brother has cut back to chicken and fish. The doctor said that that was good but that they should cut our meat entirely. He said that it would give them 15 more years of life if they would do that. Then he asked, "do you happen know any SDAs ?" My mother replied," as a matter of fact  I do."  "You do ?"  He continued. " Well, they have it right when it comes to health !" " If you know someone who is SDA just go by their diet." My mother replied, "  I am a SDA and my oldest son is as well. He does not eat any meat or dairy."  The doctor was taken back a little and said, "that's good. Most all of this is contaminated now." My mother assumed he must be SDA so she asked, " are you SDA?"  " No," he replied, " but they have it right when it comes to health."  I am sending my mother a Ministry of Healing to give him next visit followed by a Great Controversy if he is  receptive. Given his statements, no matter his religious beliefs I would think he should  be most receptive to the MH.

This story is bitter sweet. The sweet part is obvious. The other part is that the majority of SDAs  eat both meat and dairy. I'm going to share this testimony in church. We have SDAs in my local church that say " Jesus ate  meat" while we have non SDA doctors point people to us because of our health message.
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